Todd Cherches: VisuaLeadership

Jason S. Bradshaw: What if the reason your message isn't landing is because your audience can't see it? And what if the greatest leadership breakthrough wasn't about doing more? But drawing clearer.

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Jason S. Bradshaw: Hey friends! Welcome back to Chats with Jason. I'm your host, Jason S. Bradshaw, and today we're unpacking the power of pictures, metaphors, and mental models with a leader who's helping the world to see leadership in a whole new light.

He is also a three-time award-winning professor at NYU, a lecturer at Columbia, and a trusted consultant to some of the world's most recognizable brands.

So in today's episodes, we are going to dive into why visual thinking isn't just about creativity. It's about clarity and connection. How Todd's journey from Hollywood to Harvard classrooms shaped his leadership lens and how to use pictures, metaphors, and frameworks to make your message stick, your teams align, and your leadership shine.

So if you ever struggled to communicate your ideas in a way that inspires action, this episode is your visual toolbox.

So let's get into it. Welcome to the show, Todd.

Todd Cherches: Jason, thank you! That was one of the best introductions I've ever had. I wanna bring you with me to introduce me wherever I go from now on.

Jason S. Bradshaw: I'm available. I'm, I might not be cheap, but I'm available.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Fantastic. You've worked in everything from TV to theme parks, as I mentioned at the top of the show. How did that journey shape the creation of VisuaLeadership?

Todd Cherches: Yeah. If you have a chance to watch my TED talk on the power of visual thinking, I start out by opening, by saying as a kid people would say, what do you wanna be when you grow up? And I would say, I wanna be Superman. That was my first career aspiration. They said, if you can't be Superman, what's your backup plan? I said, Batman. So those were my only two aspirations, but I realized as I grew older, I needed to come up with a little something, a little more mature. And that's when I decided I need to work in the entertainment and media industry in some capacity. And I didn't really know what, but I loved television. I was obsessed with television.

And then I, my first job out of college was at Ogilvy & Mather advertising in New York. And even though I wanted a creative job, like an account executive position, I ended up in media buying, which was a great foot in the door, but not what I wanted to do was very much a numbers job and a more of a words person than a numbers person.

It was great and amazing to be working at all these amazing world famous companies, and going to rap parties, and pilot tapings and things like that. It was very exciting and glamorous, but one of the recurring themes was one horrible boss after another - tyrannical, abusive. A lot of times, as we know, people are promoted to management roles, not because of that they're good at managing and leading, but they're good at what they do. And I had that pattern, so I said, something's off here. And when I dove into management leadership - books and videos and things like that, I realized that management and leadership are in art and science.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, what a way to earn your stripes, right? It certainly would've been an interesting time.

If you were to describe VisuaLeadership in just one sentence what would that sentence be, and why does it matter now more than ever?

A big part of all the work I've done was around storytelling. It was about the use of metaphor. It was about using models and frameworks. So all of these methodologies, I've applied them to the practice of coaching and to managing and to leading, and that's basically what I do is I do that in my teaching and training and coaching, and I teach other people how to do it as well.

Jason S. Bradshaw: So you mentioned metaphors. What's a metaphor that completely changed how you led or lived today?

Todd Cherches: Oh, I love that question. The first one that popped into my head was an iceberg, right? When we say something like, oh, that's just the tip of the iceberg. It is become a phrase that we use just, without even thinking about it. But if you picture, if you visualize, this is an example of VisuaLeadership, right?

Let's say you're hiring someone and you say, here's their resume. That's just the tip of the iceberg, right? In terms of who the person is. You interview them, the water level goes down a little bit. Now you see a little bit more, a little bit more, but there's still much more below the surface that we don't see.

So just that one metaphor. If you remember the iceberg as a metaphor, it reminds us to always ask, what do I know and what do I see, but what else is out there? What am I missing?

So that's just one - big one, that I use all the time, consciously or even unconsciously.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, makes so much sense. And you're right. As soon as you mentioned the tip of the iceberg, I was thinking about everything underneath it. And all the guff that comes with that.

Todd Cherches: Okay.

Todd Cherches: It's not the whole of anything. It's one way of looking at the world. It's one lens to use that metaphor.

Like for example, a real life example. I say when I teach the differences between managing and leading, or management and leadership, I say that managers, and this is not two people, these are two perspectives. Managers look through a microscope. Leaders look through a telescope. So if you just think about those two metaphors, right? So when we're managing, we're focusing on detail. We're focusing on execution. Our heads are down, we're trying to meet schedules and budgets, right? When you're leading, you're looking out into the stars, you're looking out into the future beyond what the eye can see. So leaders need to have a vision, right? Which is a visual metaphor so you have to have a picture in your mind's eye of a future state that's different from, and better than the current reality. You need to formulate that vision clearly in your own mind, but that's just part of the equation.

I use one of the stories in my book. I'll hold it up. A little plug for my book, VisuaLeadership. One of the stories I tell is called Ice, Rice or Mice. I was once in a restaurant, I asked for some more ice - as in ice cubes -the waiter brought me a bowl of white rice. I said more ice. He heard more rice. Whose fault is that? It was my fault because I didn't clarify. I didn't close the loop to make sure it was clear. I could have held up a glass and said I need more ice for my drink. If we communicate visually, we eliminate some of those miscommunications, and misinterpretations, and misunderstanding.

So if you're delegating to someone, think about, am I communicating this visually? Is the person seeing what I'm saying? And if not, what can I do to improve that? So I end up with what I want and we don't waste time, and money, and other things.

Todd Cherches: Yeah, that's, so many examples. The first one that popped into my head was, early in my coaching career, before I even came up with this methodology, I was coaching a senior executive based in Europe for a pharmaceutical company, and I won't mention the company or the country, but basically he had an eastern region and a western region and things just were not working out. He explained the situation to me and I thought this was such a stupid solution that I almost didn't even say it. But I said, instead of east and west, what if you divide your territories into North and South? On a piece of paper, a little napkin sketch, I just drew the country as a circle, East and West. I said, what if instead of East and West, you made it North and South? Move the east guy to the North, the west guy to the South. Would that help? He looked at me and like, "oh my god, it's not a hundred percent, but that's 90% of the solution to my problem." I [00:10:00] didn't even know what he was talking about, but based on what he was explaining to me, ' cause one region was more mature, one person was less experienced, and there were language issues, and travel issues so based on everything he explained to me, it just seemed to me like a possible solution. But it wasn't until I drew it out and I sketched it on a little napkin sketch that he was able to see it in his mind's eye and envision- again, the word, it's all about visuals - envision a possibility. He said, if I do that, that will be a big part of the solution to my problem. That always stays with me, and that's one of those other chapters in my book is how 30-second napkin sketch solve the client's multimillion dollar problem.

But let's just think about, what does it take? Just pick up a pen or go up to a whiteboard and sketch something out. You could talk at each other, but if you write things on post-its, or you go up to a flip chart or a whiteboard, you sketch it out, people could see what you're saying more clearly, and then you can move things around. You can say, I didn't really understand what you were saying.

So again, the success stories, there's millions of them, but those are just a few. I wrote them on an article for Inc. Magazine called "Can You Draw What Your Company Does?" So I'm just gonna throw that out there to your listeners and say, if you had to draw a picture of what your company does for a living - how are you similar to, different from and better than the competition, what would you draw? Would you draw something literally? Process diagram, or a mind map, or an org chart? Would you draw a metaphor? What would you draw? So that's an interesting challenge I pose to some of my clients.

Todd Cherches: That's an important point. Even if you suffer from ICD syndrome, which is "I Can't Draw" syndrome, you could still use visual thinking.

I always talk about two categories: visual imagery and visual language. You could use metaphors. You can tell stories. You can illustrate something through language or sound. You could hold up a picture. You could do an AI. Now with AI, you can have AI create the visual for you, right? So yes, even if you can't draw. First of all, anyone can draw a stick figure. Anyone can draw a triangle, a circle, a square. So yes, that's a great point. It's not about your artistic abilities. It's about your ability to think visually and get an idea out of your head so that someone else can say, I see what you're saying. Because sometimes people will say to me, what about someone who's blind or sight impaired? Or you're talking to someone on the phone rather than over video? Yeah, you need to use visual language to communicate your ideas.

Todd Cherches: One of the big challenges for people is getting other people to understand. Like for managers, you delegate to someone, right? If I said to you... let's say, "Jason, great working with you. I just got promoted. You're taking my old job." Instead of just saying, here's what you should do and here's how you should do it. What if I said to you, let me tell you about the worst mistake I ever made when I had your job. And you pause... don't you think that person's gonna be at the edge of their seat waiting to hear that story so that they don't replicate it? Eleanor Roosevelt said, learn from the mistakes of others. Life's too short to make them all ourselves.

I always talk about three categories, three F's: facts, figures, and feelings. People are not motivated by facts and figures. They're motivated by feelings, right? The facts and figures have to back it up, right?

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah.

Todd Cherches: So many leaders bore people to death with statistics, and data and numbers, and we increased shareholder shareholder value by 3.7% last quarter, that you just put people to sleep before, right? What does that mean? What's the story you're trying to tell? Is that good? Is that bad? Is that better than expected? Worse than expected. So if you could translate your data into stories, it gives your numbers meaning, and then you can influence people, and motivate, and inspire people through your storytelling.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Fantastic. What would you say to someone though that says the numbers matter? The facts matter. We don't need the fluff of a story.

Todd Cherches: Yeah, I am not saying that they don't, but they may not resonate.

Jason S. Bradshaw: So, what hints do you have for a leader to be able to understand what's going to resonate with their audience?

That's just one small example. We need to speak the language of our audience. Two reasons: One, they get you. And the other reason is they're thinking either consciously or unconsciously, you get me. So when you speak someone else's language, that goes a long way to connecting, bonding, understanding.

I keep this - for those watching on video - I keep this dinosaur on my desk. For those listening, I'm holding up a Tyrannosaurus rex that I like to I keep on my desk.

I once mentioned Simon & Garfunkel in my class, and my students thought that was a law firm or a management consulting firm. They had no recognition of the musical group. A lot of my students are from China, right? So a 25-year-old female from China is not gonna get my Seinfeld references. She's not gonna get my musical references of Frank [00:18:00] Sinatra or or Simon Garfunkel. So again, if you wanna connect with your audience, speak their language. Use metaphors and tell stories that they'll say, okay, that really drew me in and they got my attention. And your message really resonated.

Jason S. Bradshaw: And using the stories and the metaphors also doesn't date you, I'm guessing.

Todd Cherches: Yeah, that's perception. Yeah. If you wanna be seen as young, hip, cutting edge, and you know, up to date using stories from 40 years ago is not gonna achieve that objective.

You've talked about some of the tools that leaders can use, like charts and slides and whiteboards and sticky notes.

Todd Cherches: Yeah, everyone you're talking to, including people listening to this conversation, has two thought bubbles over their heads. Why should I care? And what's in it for me? So every message we deliver should hit those thought bubbles.

Why should I care is why should I be interested? What's in it for me is how will I benefit, right? So before delivering any talk presentation, speaking on a panel, teaching a course, writing of blog posts... I think about who is this for? Who is my audience and what is my purpose?

If you start with that, then you could customize. Like for example, I did a workshop for the National Basketball Association a couple of years ago. I used a lot of basketball analogies, and examples, and right?

I did something else for the US Tennis Association a year later, I used tennis metaphors and tennis examples, right? Speaking the language - that's a deuce, that's an ace, who's advantage, right? So if you use that language, again, they get you. They think you get me right. So that's the main thing.

Talk to someone around you who is creative. Could even be your kids, right? I use a lot of props and toys and figures and so find out who, again, who your audience is? What's gonna resonate with them? And then try to meet them where they live, not get them to have to meet you where you live.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, so your work gets you into some interesting rooms. One of those rooms is as a teacher at universities. What do you see that the next generation of leaders are craving that the older generation often misses?

Todd Cherches: Yeah, that's interesting. First of all, attention spans are shorter than ever, right? I used to give them 20 page articles, then 10 page. Now you get them to read three pages. That's a lot, right? We're so used to scrolling on our devices so a lot of the old ways of doing things don't resonate anymore. So we need to move quicker. We need to be more diverse in terms of, again, who our audience is. Younger people are more tech savvy, they're more proficient. One of my CEO executive coaching clients asked his assistant to do some research on something. He thought it would take him a week. The kid came back seven minutes later with 20 pages of AI generated content.

I think that we need to be more tech savvy. We need to be more discriminating in terms of processing information. But, from what I see from my students at NYU and at Columbia is we need to move faster than ever. They're more impatient. Their analytical and critical thinking skills are not as strong as they were when they first started teaching 15 years ago so we have to help them develop those skills and teach them what to look for, and the cautionary tales of handing in something to your boss that is not current, not accurate, can really get you and the company into a lot of trouble. So those are some things to think about.

I'm really fascinated by your career, Todd. As I've mentioned, you've taught Broadway stage managers, homeland security officers, corporate execs at some of the world's most recognizable brands. I'm wondering what's one universal truth about leadership that you've discovered through your work that transcends industries?

Todd Cherches: Yeah, I think people are people wherever you go. There's a student at Purdue University - I'll give her a shout out named Jenny Guan, young woman. She's just a sophomore. She was interviewing people about the topic of servant leadership and she was interviewing professors and she reached out to me. I'm like... " I'm mentoring enough people among the students I teach, I don't need to take on one more, but I'm like, all right, I'll talk to her."

So I think that's a key thing, that it doesn't matter what industry you're working in, what function you're working in, people need to wanna be treated with respect. You need to build trust. You need to have authenticity. Google did that famous study called Project Aristotle, in which they identified psychological safety as the single most important factor in a high performing team. If you don't create an environment where people feel they could be vulnerable, be authentic, bring their true selves to work without fear of humiliation or punishment, you can have a dysfunctional culture, and team, and organization.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me. So what's one skill you wish every leader would master today?

Todd Cherches: Well, the easier answer is visual thinking is a skill, right? Visual thinking and visual communication. But yeah, I would say communication.

Most of us are not working in factories. We're not manufacturing widgets. We are manufacturing ideas, right? And those ideas need to be thought, and those thoughts need to be expressed in communication. So communicating effectively, whether it's presenting, whether it's on a stage, whether it's one-on-one, a team meeting, even in the email, I think that's the key thing, is if you can improve your communication skills in all those different formats, that is the single biggest superpower that you could develop, is the ability to communicate effectively.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, communication. Everything starts and ends with it really.

So I'm wondering if you could put up a billboard in Times Square today with a single leadership message, what would it say and why?

Todd Cherches: The closing line of my TED talk is a quote from Marcel Proust who said that the real voyage of discovery is not in seeking new lands, but in seeing with new eyes. That's what I would put up on the billboard is that quote that I use in my workshops, the line that I had my Ted talk with.

I think it says it all. It's like the world is right in front of us. We need to try to see it through a new lens. And possibilities are endless.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Fantastic way to end out the show. Thanks so much for being on the show today.

Todd Cherches: Thank you Jason, it was great talking to you.

Today, Todd reminded us that leadership isn't just about telling people what to do. It's about showing them a vision they can believe in, and helping them see themselves inside it. Because when people can see it, they can say yes to it, and when they can picture the future, they'll move toward it. And when your communication is clear, your leadership becomes contagious.

If this episode sparks something in you, share it. Send it to a leader who's ready to be seen and to lead in a whole new way.

And hey, don't forget to subscribe so that you never miss another episode of Chats with Jason, where real leaders share real strategies that elevate experiences and impact.

Thanks for listening.

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