Looking Forward Our Way

99 Ohio's Workforce Evolution and Opportunities Ahead

In this episode of "Looking Forward Our Way," hosts Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson welcome Kelly Fuller, Vice President of Talent and Workforce Development at the Columbus Chamber of Commerce. This insightful conversation delves into the innovative strategies employed by businesses in Central Ohio to tap into underutilized workforce pools, such as older adults and immigrant communities.

The discussion highlights the importance of multigenerational workplaces, the challenges faced by students and job seekers amidst the pandemic, and the abundance of opportunities in Central Ohio.

**Engaging Older Workers:**

The episode opens with the story of a third-generation owner of a small manufacturing company in Northwest Ohio, who faced challenges in hiring young workers for well-paying factory jobs. Responding to this dilemma, the owner devised a pioneering strategy of engaging retired workers from the company to work part-time, thereby facilitating the mentorship and training of young employees. This approach underscores the benefits of multigenerational workplaces in knowledge transfer and skill development.

The hosts and Kelly Fuller explore the data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which reflects a growing number of older adults seeking part-time work and flexibility, shedding light on the potential for businesses to integrate older workers into their staffing strategies.

**Empowering Immigrant Communities:**

The conversation continues with a focus on businesses in Central Ohio that have forged strong relationships with refugee and immigrant communities to address workforce challenges. The example of AmerisourceBergen in Lockbourne is highlighted, where deliberate efforts were made to appeal to diverse candidates through marketing materials, cultural accommodations, and community engagement.

The episode emphasizes the availability of resources, such as the HRACO (Human Resource Association of Central Ohio), Jewish Family Services, CRIS, and Riverview International Center, which support employers in connecting with and supporting refugee and immigrant communities.

**Training and Upskilling Programs:**

The episode explores the various low-cost or no-cost training programs available for job seekers in Central Ohio, offered by entities like Ohio Technical Centers, Columbus Metropolitan Library, and Jewish Family Services. Notably, the Columbus Metropolitan Library's provision of free access to LinkedIn learning courses and accommodations for starting a business or nonprofit is highlighted.

The Ohio Small Business Development Centers and programs like Accelerate in Columbus are also showcased as valuable resources for individuals interested in entrepreneurship.

**Employer Support and Local Opportunities:**

Insights are shared regarding the availability of programs and services offered by local resources such as ECDI and the Workforce Development Board of Central Ohio, which aid employers in recruiting, training, and expanding their businesses.

**Impact of Pandemic on Education and Workforce Readiness:**

The episode shifts to a discussion on the impact of the pandemic on K-12 education, focusing on the learning loss and lack of social skills faced by students. The closure of opportunities for part-time jobs, mentoring, and internships for high school juniors and seniors is explored, imparting an understanding of the challenges faced by students amidst the pandemic.

**Fostering Inclusive Hiring Practices:**

The conversation delves deep into the initiatives undertaken by businesses to recruit underrepresented talent pipelines, extending opportunities to refugees, immigrants, adults with varying abilities, and individuals with criminal backgrounds.

**Addressing Talent Shortages:**

The episode addresses the employment landscape in Central Ohio, where a shortage of skilled workers is observed, partly due to an aging population and declining birth rates. The impact of factors such as caregiving responsibilities, skill gaps, affordable housing, and transportation issues on unemployment is discussed.

**Positive Outlook and Resources:**

Kelly Fuller shares her optimism about the future and encourages listeners to remain engaged and look forward to positive developments in Ohio. The episode concludes with the hosts expressing gratitude to Kelly Fuller and encouraging listeners to visit their website for contacts and resources related to the discussion. Additionally, they express eagerness to receive feedback on the podcast episodes.

Top 5 Takeaways

1. Multigenerational workplaces offer valuable opportunities for knowledge transfer and skills development, contributing to a more diverse and skilled labor force.

2. Employers should consider adapting their recruitment and staffing strategies to engage older workers and support underrepresented talent pipelines, including refugees, immigrants, and individuals with criminal backgrounds.

3. Local organizations and resources, such as Tarako Human Resource Association, Jewish Family Services, and Ohio Small Business Development Centers, offer valuable support for job seekers, employers, and those interested in starting or growing a business.

4. Access to low-cost or no-cost training programs and resources, such as those provided by the Columbus Metropolitan Library and Ohio Technical Centers, can help individuals upskill and gain specific job-related skills.

5. Despite challenges, there is optimism about the future of Ohio, and individuals are encouraged to stay engaged and look forward to positive developments in the region.

Memorable Moments

00:00 Role as VP at Columbus Chamber helps businesses.

03:42 Aging population poses a workforce challenge by 2030.

07:55 Schools pivoted to virtual learning, impacting skills.

10:08 Revisiting underrepresented talent pipelines in the workplace.

16:15 Discussion focused on changing labor statistics and needs.

18:21 AmerisourceBergen partners with refugee communities for jobs.

21:18 SHRM operates locally, and focuses on HR professionals.

24:09 Utilize local resources for free training options.

28:49 Exciting opportunities in Central Ohio's business development.

Kelly Fuller is the Vice President of Talent And Workforce Development at the Columbus Chamber of Commerce. In this role, she serves as a resource for the chamber's 23,100 plus member businesses, helping them find and retain the talent they need to fill critical roles. When employers struggle to find qualified applicants for their open positions, Kelly steps in to connect them with agencies, organizations, and educational institutions to access talent pipelines. Her work is instrumental in supporting the growth and success of businesses in the Columbus area.

We would love to hear from you.

Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.

Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.

Find us on Facebook.

Please review our podcast on Google!

And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.

Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle270Media Podcast Consultants.

Copyright 2024 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson

We are Looking Forward our Way from studio c in the 511 Studios just south of downtown Columbus. Hi. This is Brett. As Central Ohio economy continues to grow, new employers are flocking to our area. We have all the big guns coming, like Intel, Google, Amazon, but we also have all the support business is, coming too.

We do, Brett. You know, our our workforce is dynamic, but boy, is it a challenge too. We have lots of issues to cover today, and our wonderful friend, Kelly Fuller, vice president of talent and workforce development for the Columbus Chamber of Commerce, a is our guest expert, and she's ready to give us all the deets on the issues and the challenges. Kelly, thanks so much for joining us today.

It's so great to see both of you. Thank you so much.

You've been here a few times, but, you know, we wanna make sure our audience knows about you just in case they haven't listened to previous episodes we'll put links to those in the show notes for everybody. Give us a quick overview of your background and your responsibilities at the Columbus Chamber.

And we're big champions of, underrepresented talent pipelines, like refugee and immigrants, and I know we can e that more in our conversation. But prior to coming to the chamber five and a half years ago, I had a career for 15 years with Eastland Fairfield, a A current technical school district in Groveport where I was working both with high school juniors and seniors and adult learners And helping them find the best placement in in a place of employment so they could practice what they were learning in the classroom.

Yeah. E So and you described it perfectly, Carol. It's a it's a good news, bad news story. You know, the good news is we have a booming economy. We have a lot of opportunity. The challenge becomes, do we have enough people to to fill all these important roles? And just some statistics to kinda get us started. Carol, I know you love statistics.

Out too.

So, we in Ohio in central Ohio, we mirror a lot of the rest of the United States where we continue to hover a Pretty much full employment. We're under 4% unemployment. We fluctuate anywhere from 3.1 to 3.5 a Given the time of year that the whatever the month is, so we're still at a very historically low unemployment rate. So, again, a good news, bad news. Good news is, you know, fewer people are unemployed. You know, again, the challenge still remains. We have lots of really good jobs and openings. We just don't have the people for them.

Right. And I think that a The beauty of statistics is having the information, but the problem with statistics is to understand the numbers that you're Looking at. So when people hear unemployment rates, a There are specific parameters of how that's measured. So unemployment at 3.1% a is not folks who aren't Looking for a job. It's not students. It's not folks over 70. It's the folks who are a Able to work, ready to work, Looking for work, which is a is a different picture than all the other folks that we have out there. A What it's also not counting are people who could work, want to work, may or may not be Looking, but can't for family reasons.

Yes. It's not a Counting the people who are taking care of children because you can't find childcare or taking care of parents because there's no place to send them and you can't afford assisted living. It's all those kinds of issues that are hanging out there that I think are also still, a Really critical in in central Ohio. They are. And and

I'm glad that you put, some meat on the bones there because we too often get kind of hung up I'm just Looking at one indicator without Looking at so many of the societal reasons that people either are unemployed a Or underemployed or or chronically unemployed. They might go into a a job for a month, 2 months, 3 months, and then have to step out For a period of time and come back for all those reasons that you described. It could be childcare. It could be caring for an older family member. It can be transportation. It can assist. A lot of times, we have skill gap issues too. So there is no easy magic bullet, and that's one of the interesting things as as the the 3 of us in the room.

You know, when we talk about workforce, you know, I think too often people are Looking for some magic, you know, elixir. You know, how are we gonna fix workforce? Well, it's It's systemic. We have so many issues. We haven't even I didn't even mention, you know, the lack of affordable housing close to places of employment. So

a And transportation.

You know, the other thing that has, Excuse me. The other thing that nobody's really talking too much about, I'm wondering if it's sitting out there. A Now that we're past the pandemic and kids are in a better place at school, likely finishing their high school degrees a College degrees too, but particularly those finishing high school degrees in a normal pattern of school are better prepared to go into the work a in the last 2 or 3 classes, and nothing's happening to help those kids catch up. And I'm wondering if that's also where folks that that could be part of that 3.1% of people who are able to work, but not finding work because they just haven't really been prepared to go into the workforce?

And that goes along with opportunities to do jobs, at part time jobs as a young person, mentoring, having a good mentor or assistantships or, Some type of internships that they may have had an opportunity as juniors and seniors in high school, those were all closed up.

Absolutely. And where we saw a lot of schools even prior to the pandemic really kinda leaning into, like, emotional intelligence and and what that means in the classroom and how important that is e In life, I think we're seeing, you know, to your question about what are we seeing from that, the impact, I think we're seeing more schools, really. If they hadn't been Looking at that intensively before, there they are now, out of necessity, and it's and it and it is the right thing to do.

Yeah, a year ago, we discussed the number of people who left the workforce, like moms, older adults, and those alienated for very variety of reasons. It seems that tide may be turning. How are businesses doing their recruiting efforts for new employees?

Yeah. And I love when we can revisit things like a year later and just kind of, You know, talk about what what's happened. I I know in the past when, I've had the pleasure to visit with you guys, you know, we've talked about some of those underrepresented talent pipelines. And we are seeing more businesses Looking at refugees, immigrants, and migrants, adults with varying abilities who may need some type of accommodation in the work place, those adults who have some type of criminal background issue that may be preventing them from holding a job, keeping a job, a Even closing them out of certain industries. When we think about I'll take a a second there and just, give an example of when we think about that last population I described, someone who has a A felony or a misdemeanor background, a lot of times, you know, they're gonna struggle for, you know, finding placement in a good job. A JPMorgan Chase has started a program to help those individuals that have background issues come to work in the bank. And, You know, when we think about preconceived notion, you know, in the past, having financial services as a pathWay for someone who has a background, didn't it was kind of a nonstarter. You know? It's like, nope.

That's not gonna happen. But when you get someone as large as JPMorgan Chase to step in and say, we're gonna do this. We're gonna try this. That's kinda what we're seeing, Brett. We're seeing, I think, businesses Looking in earnest at some of these underrepresented talent pipelines and going, probably gonna have to change policy. I'm probably gonna have to change some procedures. I might even have to augment some equipment, but let's give it a try, and we're seeing some good results from that.

Oh, it makes sense. Because I who's to say that their incur their current employees aren't the thing you know, they haven't stepped on the wrong side of the law, but it's one of those.

A

Yeah. Opportunity does offer opportunity For sure.

To do.

So it doesn't matter whether your background is if you've been in jail or not. Mhmm. It is what I mean, there's just eats got caught or not. Right. That's true. Yeah. I mean, and this may not be the greatest analogy, but, you know, there's been the saying that, you know, locks on a home or locks on a shed or something like that, only keep the honest people out. That's it.

It means you really, really wanna get in, you'll get in. Yeah. So it's that, Okay. You know, you gotta give I I I would think, you know, give that that person some grace that, okay. They screwed up. Mhmm. And maybe they don't wanna you know, they just screwed up.

Yeah. Give them a chance. And it could have been a long time ago.

Right. Right. Right. Right. You know? Well, and I think 2 there for a long time, the banks were really held captive because of federal policy.

Yeah.

But I think Jamie Dimon at Chase was pushing For those changes so that he had those opportunities to find individuals who were perfectly skilled to do these jobs. Sure.

Which is wonderful. And I 8th You know, we're all better for it. I mean, I think it it it obviously helps that individual. It helps the the company they're working for. And, you know, just as our communities, you know, our I think they're healthier, safer, better places for all of us to be. When people do find, you know, a place for themselves, in something that's a legitimate job where they don't have to be, you know, kind of working through the system the Way they had been prior.

Right. Right.

You know?

Okay. So, Kelly, we we often just talk about older adult applicants. My love of making sure my older adults are taken care of. What are you hearing from employers about this population? Do they see older adults as part of their organization, or do they a still can't will they view older adult as successful applicants?

Yeah. I think you you well, you know me. I I'm right there with you, Carol. And every chance I have, I love to, help our businesses understand who, they can, you know, reach out to in the Columbus market, certainly, but even in a broader market to find those adults who are a older who may have left the workforce, you know, because they had to solve some issue, like providing childcare for their own grandchildren perhaps, But now they'd like to come back or, you know, they're they just, you know, wanna come back to work or they wanna find something different. So, locally, you know, we we have agencies and organizations that a that helps support that. Like our friends at New Directions. Mhmm. They're doing a lot of work there to help, businesses connect to older job applicants.

A Just a real quick story. This is not something that took place in Central Ohio, but I was on a panel last year at Ohio State, for a leadership, conference. And there was a gentleman there from a small town in, Northwest Ohio, and he was 3rd generation. He was, like, my age. He was in his sixties, He was 3rd generation of owning this, small manufacturing company in this town. And he was struggling with getting young people to come to work to fill these roles. And they're good paying jobs, a Factory jobs. And, one day, he's sitting at the coffee shop in his little small town, kinda lamenting over coffee with some people who'd retired from the company About how I can't find these folks.

And 1 gentleman who had retired said, well, you know, I'll I'll come in, You know, for, like, kinda stopgap kind of stuff. You know, you got people out on vacation or whatever. And he did that a few times and then had a couple other retirees come in, and he thought e This the I kinda, like, backed into this, but maybe this should be my plan, my strategy. So what it's really worked well in is where he's had trouble e Finding enough young people to come in and do the job, he's been using these older workers, paying them their their back, but they're not full time unless they wanna be. He's also giving that option. Agent. But they can come in, train, mentor, help these younger people learn. They're also now getting paid again, this this older return.

E I I the the person that's coming back and and returning into the workplace. And the other thing is they can also schedule better. So if someone wants to leave on vacation, where in the past, they might have told that person, you know, no. I'm sorry. You can't go on vacation. Now they have, like, a a a, you know, a deep bench of people. So I I thought that was a really impactful story that he shared because it's really saying, wait a minute. You know, how, You know, sometimes I look at that as like a a plan b.

He's going, no. This should be my plan a. You know, I really should be thinking about this from the get go.

They want to have some opportunities to be engaged, but they're not taking on the responsibility of a full time job. Mhmm.

And it and it And it works beautifully. I mean, I think it you know, when we talk about multigenerational workplaces and, how, you know, that transfer of knowledge, you know, can happen. And, yeah, I I just think it it makes so much sense, the employers that are really, like, actively, you know, e saying this is gonna be part of how we recruit and how we staff our our company.

Yeah. Well, it seems to be the the other side of the coin is that multi generational and multi cultural workforce as well too. How are you seeing local employers do doing this in their search for employees that are different than the applicants of the past. You know? And I don't have a time marker in my mind, but it seems as though we've talked about this multigenerational thing probably before COVID, it almost seems to be okay. It's here. Mhmm. If you haven't addressed it yet Mhmm. You kind of put put your head in the sand Sure.

And understand what culture needs to be built in your company to address that? And now the multicultural is probably definitely newer in regards to addressing how to to handle that sort of thing. So how are you seeing employers, you know, deal with that?

Some of them are really, really knocking it out of the park. And I may have shared this with you in in the a pass, so forgive me if this is a repeat, but, you know, we we have a company down in Lockbourne, AmerisourceBergen, that moves, a Life saving drugs, pharmaceuticals from point a to point b. So think insulin, chemo drugs, things that people need to stay alive. And they were really struggling with finding people to a Do, you know, the production piece, the pick and pack, the, you know, making sure everything gets in the right place. And these are good paying jobs. So they made a decision to build relationships with our refugee and immigrant communities. And how they did that was to go to the local Somali community center, the Bhutanese Napoli Center, you know, the, to find people from the the, you know, Democratic Republic of Congo, a Build relationships with Jewish Family Services and Chris and Riverview International so they could better understand. So building that long term a That building trust that results in a long term relationship is really where the what was their North Star.

So they started by going to those community centers. They changed All their marketing material for in their job postings to reflect the people that they wanted to attract and people that currently work there. You walk into, AmerisourceBergen, you walk into their lobby in Lockbourne, you're gonna see a wall full of flags of every country that's represented, someone out on the floor. So when you're a new employee, you walk in, you're Looking for your flag. If you see it, yay. I'm I know I'm gonna find a friend. If you don't see it, you have the opportunity to say, I belong here now too. I have a flag? So some cultural shifts.

He the the plant manager also recognized that he had a lot of, a Refugee and immigrant women who were mothers that were struggling with an 8 o'clock start time. So because they were trying to get their kids on a bus or off to a So he changed it to 8:30 AM to accommodate. No more pizza in the, break room on Fridays. Now we order from a Bhutanese Nepali restaurant. So I think he's kind of the poster child, the the plant manager at AmerisourceBergen for doing some of these things to address multicultural. We're also seeing businesses take it even deeper to say, we have people in our country who are coming from incredible crises, a War torn countries. They're coming from, you know, experiencing a lot of trauma. We have some employers locally who are Looking how to embed trauma informed a Learning and development and care for the employee experience with a lens on the refugee and especially the refugee community.

So Things that I had I didn't see 5 years ago or even 3 years ago, we're we're seeing now.

Kelly, if an employer hears this and says, I need to come up with some ideas like that. Who is out there supporting them? They can call you at the chamber. Are there other groups that are a SHRM or or whomever, are they come helping employers come up with these great ideas?

Yeah. So, yeah, SHRM operates here locally as Tarako Human Resource Association of Central Ohio. They have a very strong they're also a member driven organization much like the Chamber, And their focus is obviously on, you know, HR and talent professionals. So they convene pretty regularly. They're a great resource To get to know, I know, some of these, like, refugee and immigrant communities and what some of their struggles are, you know, we alWays recommend, Like I mentioned, Jewish family services in Bexley, CRIS, which is community refugee and immigration services, Riverview International is another great one, welcoming city. These are groups that are right here local that could help, any business owner or really anyone who's interested a Understand more about our new friends and neighbors that are here, from from other countries and how we can best engage them and help them find and keep employment.

And and employers and and those listening to this, we're gonna have all that contact information for them on our resource sheet for this podcast, so that's great. Okay. Because Riverview, I've not ever heard of.

Riverview is actually out by OSU, a And they are, just a phenomenal organization. They help again with settlement. They're seeing a lot of people people recently that are, recently here from Algeria. We're, you know, we're getting people from all around the world. As we see new refugees and immigrants coming to the country, we kinda get a a geopolitical picture of what's happening, you know, across the globe.

Okay. Great. Great. So we've talked about employers. I wanna ask h For those job seekers that are out there, I hear them lamenting that they need training but can't afford to go you know, because in In their head and they hear training, they immediately think you have to go pay for school.

Yeah. And there are

a lot of Ways that they can get training that could either be low cost or no cost. A What tips do you have for those job applicants and how to find that information on training programs? What are the types of programs that we're seeing that are being supported?

So some of those agencies that I just mentioned, you know, like Jewish Family Services, and and, Chris, you know, we'll offer some classes, not not specific just To the refugee and immigrant community, but to people, in general, Jewish family services has a long history of working, you know, especially with older, mature workers as well. I mentioned my background from Eastland Fairfield. Ohio Technical Centers, which is the the name for adult, education that's offered at career centers throughout the state offer a variety of training. And it can be, you know, a Some upskilling. It could be something in Microsoft. It could be something in welding. Some of those are, low cost. And those that are higher in price, a lot of individuals may qualify for funding if it's 600 hours or more from either Pell Grants or student loans.

A Or I'd be remiss if I didn't say to check our eligibility for WIOA work Workforce Innovation Opportunity Act dollars That are available through our local workforce development board of Central Ohio. That could be another resource as well to go to for training, e That either is free or at very no cost. And, you know, I'm a huge proponent of the library. I love our library, a 150 years Columbus Metropolitan Library. And with your library card at your fingertips, whether you're at a branch or a main library or even at home, you can find a wealth of classes that you can take. Some of them even will give you badges, certificates, credentials. Right. So really, you know, think about what your local library branch can do for you.

And

and you don't have to even live in the city of Columbus. Do you have a city a Columbus library card? I don't even live in the county, and I have a Columbus library card.

And our libraries now are they're just beautiful. I mean, we have, obviously, the, you know, the flagship downtown that's, you know, our gorgeous main branch. But, as I as I'm out in the communities and suburbs and seeing some of the branches, in in some of the neighborhoods here in Columbus, they're just wonderful spaces is in, very supportive and encouraging lifelong learning regardless of where you are Right. In your life.

Right. The, LinkedIn learning Mhmm. Courses, Which there's normally a very large fee are all free to anyone with a Columbus library card, and you're talking about tens of thousands of courses.

Yeah. It's phenomenal. And, you know, the the the main branch of the library, if you haven't been there yet, downtown Columbus on Grant, you know, they've opened up a space upstairs for a to businesses and nonprofit. So if you're thinking about, hey. I'd like to start a business. You know? Maybe maybe I, you know, spent years doing this. Now I'm retired, or now I'm a Wanna go do something else to help you get started. You can do market research.

You can just do a lot of things that you might otherwise have to pay someone to do for you. You can do it on your own. If you're interested in starting a nonprofit or understanding how they work, That space is also conducive for that as well.

And then and, 2, in terms of starting a business, taking your hobby, and becoming a business, we have the Ohio development, a Small business development centers that are the services are free through the state of Ohio.

Yeah. That's good. And I'll I'll plug the chamber really quickly. We, Also are running a program, in in connection with and with the support supported dollars of, the city of Columbus. It's an accelerate program, And this is for any, person living doing business, in Columbus to come do a 6 week, class one day a week for 6 weeks, e To learn, am I set up correctly? You know? Should I be an LLC? Should I be a sole proprietor? You know, how do I really do make my website look better? You know? All those things really help prepare a person who's, starting off in business to be as successful as they can be.

Wonderful.

Are there resources available for local employers on building their capacity, any possibly programs or services that could support their recruiting and training efforts.

Yeah. That's a good question too. So, and I mentioned the accelerate program that the chamber is running. You know, we were one of 6 that the, city of Columbus selected for that. You know, others are in that space too. ECDI. They're here local. They they can help with that.

You know, the workforce development board of Central a Ohio does some amazing things to help businesses get ready to expand, to grow their business, to, e Figure out how to train and, hire people. So, yeah, I'd say, you know, let's we have some really good stalwarts here, But we're also alWays Looking for some some new faces in that space as well.

Wonderful. You know, Kelly, I love this program when we get to talk about what's going on in in the workforce in in our area, and it alWays goes too quick too quickly. Before you know it, our time is out. Before we end the program, we alWays ask our guests, give us your last words of wisdom. What didn't we talk about today? What do you wanna make sure people hear about and, actually, you know, just telling all those job seekers to just Keep at it, and there's a great job out there for you.

That's the great thing I think right now. I you know, Columbus is a Is and Central Ohio, Ohio in general, has experienced so much growth. And we're just getting started. I mean, we're a Looking at you know, we have all the the names we've heard of in the in the in the news, you know, the Intels and, you know, Honda, you know, expanding with the electric a Vehicle battery. We have, Amgen. We have Pharmavite. You know? So we're we're kind of really heavy into that STEM and STEAM kind of space. And I'd say it's it's a good time to be living in Ohio.

It's a good time to be living in in in Central Ohio region. And there's really Even though those jobs and those, companies I talked about, and I just said that they're very heavy into STEM, they are. But there's opportunity e for, I think, a variety of roles in each one of those companies. So work with your work with your local trusted business, group, Whether that's your local chamber, or your local, business advisory council or, you know, whoever that you're involved with that you're keeping kind of, a pulse on what's going on in the the business development in Ohio, because it's changing every day. So I'd say my parting words is it's exciting. We're only getting started, and, it's gonna be good for all of us in Ohio.

Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Well, many thanks to our, our HR expert, Kelly Fuller, who she is the vice president, talent and workforce development for the Columbus Chamber, for joining us today. Listeners, thank you for joining us, and check out our notes, for contact information and the resources that we've discussed today, you can find this information at Looking Forward our Way.com. Are Looking Forward to hearing your feedback on this and any of our podcast episodes.