Most lawyers work hard to build wealth but rarely stop to plan how to keep it. Join me as I sit down with financial advisor Thuong Thien of Team Hewins to break down the four practical steps every attorney can use to take control of their money and future. She shares how to clarify goals and values before making financial decisions, track and smooth out uneven cash flow, save and invest using a simple “bucket” system, and build a trusted team of advisors to protect what you’re growing. This conversation is the first step in making it easy to see where your money is going, how to make it work smarter, and why a clear plan brings more freedom, both in your business and your life.

Key Topics

01:43 – Learn how Thuong helps professionals, especially lawyers, bring order and clarity to their financial lives.

04:31 – Setting Clear Goals and Values – Why most lawyers delay personal planning and how to shift from reacting to leading with purpose.

07:18 – The three questions that help define values and goals that actually guide financial choices.

08:50 – How aligning goals with lifestyle brings clarity to career and money decisions.

09:34 – Understanding Cash Flow and Spending – How to spot your real cash-flow rhythm and plan for taxes, investments, and lifestyle goals.

12:49 – Thuong’s six-month spending method: one account, one card, total visibility.

15:30 – Why separating business and personal spending keeps your plan accurate and sustainable.

17:04 – Saving and Investing with the Bucket Strategy – How to use short-, mid-, and long-term “buckets” to manage growth and risk with confidence.

19:50 – How bucket planning reduces couple money stress and keeps shared goals on track.

20:09 – Small adjustments that make saving feel less like restriction and more like freedom.

20:19 – Building Your Financial Dream Team – The core players: fiduciary advisor, CPA, estate attorney, and insurance expert.

25:47 – Why syncing tax and financial planning can multiply results for firm owners.

26:33 – The key takeaway: wealth grows faster when you build the right team early.

Resources Mentioned

Tech/Apps

• Calm (for meditation and relaxation)  –https://www.calm.com

Books

• Atomic Habitsby James Clear -https://a.co/d/j4gMTn8 

About our Guest:

Thuong Thien is a Principal at Team Hewins and a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER® professional who helps high-achieving women—particularly attorneys and executives—navigate complex financial decisions with clarity and confidence. She specializes in guiding clients through pivotal moments such as making partner, managing equity compensation, or planning for a liquidity event.

Known as a trusted sounding board, Thuong provides clear, strategic advice across cash flow management, retirement planning, tax strategy, charitable giving, and wealth transfer. Her clients value her ability to simplify complexity and create structured, actionable plans—so they can focus on excelling in their careers while moving forward with financial confidence.

https://teamhewins.com/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/team-hewins/ 

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules,  a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon.  He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

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So if you're an attorney or a business owner,

what's the number one secret to financial planning?

I think there, there's probably a lot of

planning, a lot of tax planning that you can do a lot of. And

this is where, you know, building that team, if you have

your CPA and your financial advisor really connecting and

talking to each other. There are so many strategies that you can

do there that maybe in a CPA might not know alone and a

financial advisor might not know a loan, but together, they're

saving you a lot on taxes, investing really well together.

And I think that's key. I think, for a business owner, if you can

connect those two things, the financial planning and the tax,

you're going to be ahead of the game.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening,

whatever time this podcast finds you, welcome to the 10 Golden

Rules of Internet Marketing for Law Firms podcast. Actually, a

few people told me they liked that intro. So what I want you

to do is I want you to work want you to record that intro just on

your iPhone and send it to me, or if you have an Android, and

try and do the 10 golden rules intro. Maybe we'll play them on

an upcoming podcast. Anyways, very excited. Today we are going

to talk about your financial journey. We've got a great

expert called Thuong Thien. How did I do that time?

Thuong? Thank you for having me on

before we get to Thuong. Just a couple quick

commercials, if I may. The first one is really, really good. We

recorded all of the sessions at tgr live. 2025 we had amazing

sessions with people like Mike Morris, Justin lovely, the AI

attorney. We had Ben leader give a great session on intake, and

it's all available for the low, low price of $197 so you can

find a link on our blog. Just go to 10 Golden rules.com and go to

the blog. It's called the Law Firm marketing blog, and you'll

find a link there, and you can get all the recordings from tgr

live. 2025 now great speakers and announcements coming for tgr

live. 2026, March of 2026 so add that to your calendar March 15

and 16th. If you're going to join us again this year, we'd

love to have you one other quick commercial. 10 golden rules does

Internet Marketing for law firms. And one thing I've never

mentioned on the on these podcasts is we'd love to have a

look at your internet marketing, and we'll do a free audit for

anyone on this podcast. So once again, just go to 10 Golden

rules.com and what we'll do is we'll show you how you're

ranking, how your website's ranking, how many search engine

keywords your website's ranking for, and we'll compare all that

to your competitors. Just go to 10 Golden rules.com fill out the

contact form, say, Jay, I heard your podcast, and I want to get

the free audit, and we'll show you how you rank versus your

competitors. We've got a great tool that shows you how you do

on Google Maps. So throughout your city, you can see, are you

coming up in the top three in Google Maps, or how are you

ranking versus your competitors? We show you how you're

performing on local service ads, even things like intake, and we

audit a bunch of technical things on your website as well.

There's all the commercials Thuong. And let's get into your

story and learn a little bit more about you. And our topic

today, by the way, is financial planning. 101, building wealth

while building your law firm. And Thuong is going to get into

the four key areas, but first, I want to hear a little bit about

your story and your background, and so tell us about your

background and where you're from and where you're living today.

Thank you, Jay. I am I grew up in LA and I now

live in Alameda, which is a little island across San

Francisco, great and my journey into this profession, I've

always known that I really like numbers and I'm more of an

analytical person. So when I graduated, I found a job in the

finance field, and I really didn't know what I wanted to do,

but my boss at the time, he took this financial planning

certificate course at UCLA, and I thought I would do the same.

And when I took the first class, everything made sense to me,

just how our financial life, they're all connected every

single aspect, from cash flow to tax to investment. And so I was

like, I like what went off, and I really, really enjoy it, and

I've been doing that since.

That's fantastic. And what do you do for fun?

I like hiking these days. I'm getting into

outdoors rock climbing. I do not do lead climbing, but I do

sports climbing. I took my dog on Wall. Dogs. He's a French

Bulldog. I like seeing him having fun. I love taking him

out to our HOA dog party every Sunday.

That's great. All right, well, let's get into it.

Then, let's talk about financial planning, 101, building wealth

while building your law firm. And there's four key areas. So

do talk to me a little bit about and by the way, Thuong and I met

on a lawyers networking group, and there's a number of us who

work with lawyers. And so I said financial planning, one on one,

like that, is good stuff for, particularly for the young

lawyers who are just getting started, maybe don't have a

financial plan. But also for we're going to get into some

more sophisticated topics today for the experts in the room,

tell me a little bit about financial planning, 101, and

then we'll get into each of the four key areas.

So I work with a lot of attorneys, and what I

found is that attorneys are really good at solving other

people's problems, but when it comes to their own personal

finances, that gets neglected all the time. And it makes

sense, because when they're working 5060, hours a week,

going to trials, putting out client fires, no one really has

the time for budgets and spreadsheets at the end of the

day. But here's the truth, if you don't focus and get

organized with your finances, your money ends up controlling

you. So that's why I really focus on helping attorneys focus

on areas where they can build their wealth while building

their practice. It's

kind of a cliche, but failing to plan is planning

to fail. So if you don't have a plan, guess what? Chances are,

you're going to have much less success. And by the way, you

also need a good plan. What's the other cliche? Practice

doesn't make perfect. Practice makes perfect so, so you need a

good plan, and you need a good planner. And I really like what

Tong has to say. So let's get into the first key area of

financial planning, one on one.

Yeah. So the first key area is, if you think about

as attorneys, when you take on a case, you have an objective,

whether that's to win the trial, to get a good settlement for

your client or to protect your client. That's the same with

your financial life. It starts with your goals and values,

because money without direction is like a map without a

destination. And I think a lot of people overthink this part,

that they have some to have some grand goals and accomplish it by

certain date, or they feel like a failure. But don't overthink

this really have some short goals and some rough timeline

that really gives you direction. So I have three questions that

you can ask yourself or talk to your spouse and go through this

together. Start with very simple, what has to happen in

the next one to three years for me to feel accomplished, both

personally and financially. And that might be, hey, I don't want

to worry about cash flow anymore, because cash flow is

really giving me stress. I want to figure out a way to lessen

that stress. Maybe it's I want to buy that vacation home that

I've always been dreaming about, or maybe it's taking a vacation

with the family. So that's the first question you ask yourself.

The second question is, just expand that time horizon, what

has to happen in the next five to 10 years? And then it could

be, you know, early retirement or helping your kids buy that

first home or college education, so five or 10 years. And then

the last question is really important as well. It What does

financial well being mean to you? This is all tied together,

because that really gives you an understanding of what money

means to you. And these three questions are important, because

when further down in your financial life, you're going to

have to make decisions, and you're going to have options,

and could be, you know, had you have really good options or

conflicting options. So this the objectives, the goals and the

values really help you make those, those

decisions. And these are the questions you'd

ask a new client as well, right?

Yes, very much so, and I helped this client with

their distribution strategy. And we go through these goals

building, and we go through the financial planning, where we do

what we call what if scenarios. And for this particular client,

what if they take more out of their 401, K and pension plan

versus other assets. What if they sell a second property?

What if they give to their son a down payment for his first home?

And these, what if scenarios, they're visual, and they show

the client 510, 20 years into the future what their cash flow

and net worth will look like if they do these. What. Of

questions. And at the end, they had really good options, some

conflicting options, but some really good options, and they

had a hard time figuring out what direction to go in. And so

I said to them, Hey, your homework is to go home, discuss

with each other the goals you mentioned to me and prioritize

them. And so when they came back at the next meeting, the path

was very clear. They wanted flexibility, they wanted to

travel. They wanted to be able to help the son with the down

payment. So for them, that distribution strategy or options

was a lot clearer.

That's great. So the first area, the first key

area, financial planning, 101, building wealth while building

your law firm is understand your goals and talk to an expert

about it, because they're going to obviously, like the best

consultants, the best business strategists, ask great

questions, and so Thuong's first question is a great question.

Understand your goals and values, and then obviously

professional can help you with that number two the second key

area of financial planning,

101, is number two is you have to know where you

are to know where you're going. And I found that the biggest

stressors in an attorney's life is not the complexity of

investing, but rather, it's cash flow, and it makes a lot of

sense, because for particularly for entrepreneurs, sole

practitioner partners, they have uneven cash flow, and so that

puts a lot of stress, and the more they make, the more

pressure they feel. And so the key is to find the pattern in

your uneven cash flow. And I help this one client figure out

that, hey, the first six months she had really small payments,

and then there's quarterly true ups, and the second six months

bigger payments of one huge bonus in December January. So

helping her figure out that pattern really helped us with,

Hey, let's pay estimated taxes at this time. Save up this

amount of money. Help her reinvest in her firm, and also

pay off one big expenses without panic. So that's one side of the

coin with knowing where you are is no figuring out a pattern to

your income, and the other side is expenses, and this is by far

the biggest hold up for everybody. No one wants to focus

on this tedious work of figuring out their expenses. And the

traditional way is, hey, let me print out my statements, go line

by line and then categorize it and that no one wants to do

that, but I have a shortcut. I have a workaround for this.

Okay, so over the next six months, I want you to run

everything through one credit card or and one checking account

both you and your spouse and as much through one credit card as

possible, and that way, at the end of six months, you just

download your year to date report, and then you multiply

that by two. And that's a good start. That's a really good

start to know to knowing where you stand in terms of expenses,

and knowing this really ties to all of the other steps in

financial planning. This is kind of the backbone, because knowing

your cash flow, it ties to how you're able to invest. Knowing

your income ties to tax planning and the strategies, and if

you're building wealth, it ties to risk management and

everything else. So yes, your objectives, your goals and

values first, and then understanding your cash flow

second.

Wonder if you could do your expenses by using one of the

paid versions of like chat, GPT or perplexity or Claude, and

then just uploading your bank statements and your credit card

and then just say, Hey, give me a summary and categorize all my

expenses.

Yes, I actually thought about that before, before this

podcast. And I think one that is an option, but obviously your

data goes out there, but there are probably a lot of budgeting

apps and AI things now that can help you with this. But you

know, there are a couple easier strategies, like spending on one

credit card, where at least, you know, it's all the data. Yeah,

yeah. And I've also helped clients where they wouldn't do a

budget. When they come to me and it's very hard for them to get

started, I will back into it, like I will take their income,

and then I will back out certain expenses, and then if they

haven't saved beyond their retirement accounts, then I know

they're spending what they're taking home. So there are other

ways to helping people get through this wall of not wanting

to do their budget.

Yeah, and a lot of the clients both of us deal

with are relatively small entrepreneurs from the ownership

standpoint. So there's one or two. Typically, a lot of the law

firms are Thuong and Berkowitz. You know, there's like, two.

Owners and a lot of these guys and gals are not that

sophisticated with their finances, and a lot of them have

those cash flow peaks and balances, as you talked about so

a lot of our clients are personal injury, criminal,

family law, and particularly the PI guys, they'll get one or two

huge wins every year. Is that something that you all help with

understanding the cash flow on the business side, or are we

getting a little bit out of your wheel house?

I have worked with business owners where I really

want them to separate out their business expenses and personal

and they may have a credit card that they run everything

through, but they really to break that out and have a

business, credit card and bank, but I think, yeah, for the most

part, I would say, when they're an entrepreneur, I work with

them, and everything's commingled, because their

business is them and but we have to try to understand the

differences, because once they stop working, That's another

area that, hey, what are the expenses that they have to take

on if they can't run this through the business anymore?

Because, as we know and business owners, we have a lot of

expenses, and so that runs through the business and gets

the deduction. But once you're not working anymore, that's

going to fall back on you. So it's really key to separate

those things out. And I really work with business owners to do

that, right?

Well, we're here with our expert today, Thuong

Thien, and we're going through financial planning, 101,

building wealth while building your law firm. We've gone

through the first two key areas, establishing your goals and

values, like where you are, where you want to be in one to

three years, five to 10 years, and even longer in the future,

understanding your cash flow and understanding your expenses. And

a really good tip to either figure that out with your credit

card and bank statements, or use one credit card and bank over

the next six months, so you can work with someone like Thuong to

figure out exactly where you're at. The third key area, I'll

turn it over to you is,

this is smart saving and Smart Investing. So

when I work with attorneys, I noticed that they tend to have a

lot of cash because, as I mentioned, the uneven cash flow

and just running a business is difficult, so having a lot of

cash feels safe to them, but saving is not the same as

building wealth. Saving keeps you safe. Investing grows your

wealth and gives you freedom. And when it comes to attorneys,

if you have your own business, there's a lot of different ways

to save. You could create retirement accounts for your

business to shelter a lot of tax when you are working for a

bigger firm and your partner. There are so many different

saving and employee benefits, whether it's cash balance plans

for 1k Health Savings defer account, but I really dig into

those saving strategies to help my clients, and at the end of

the day, they're saving more, they're saving smarter, they're

saving on taxes, and it aligns with their goals. So that's the

saving side. On the investment side, I think again, people over

complicate some of these ideas and and so I create what I call

a bucket investment strategy. So you have a short term bucket,

and that could be for emergency fund. It could be money you want

to build up to buy a home or a vacation home for the next year.

And then you have a midterm bucket that could be college

education for your kids. And then you have a long term bucket

retirement, for example. So each bucket has a goal, has a

purpose. Each bucket has a time horizon, and therefore each

bucket can be invested differently, from conservative

all the way to aggressive. And so it's a simple framework, but

it really works. I have these two clients that I've been

working with, and they have very different risk tolerance. One is

very conservative, and the other is very aggressive. And so when

the market goes down, one of the spouse gets really nervous, has

a lot of anxiety. This is a couple. This is a couple, yeah,

and one client has been a wiper, yeah. And it's just they have

such different risk tolerance that it creates stress in their

relationship. So when we work together, okay, I said this your

deferral call you're spending on for the next five years. So this

is conservative. Let's create a conservative investment strategy

for the money that you're spending for the next five

years, and then there's a moderate bucket where that will

come next. So that investment strategy is moderate, and then

their retirement accounts is something that they're going to

spend 10 years down the line. So it's a longer term and it's more

moderately aggressive. So even though it's a very simple

strategy, it really changed what they have in conflict, anxiety

and stress. Something that's clearer and they can move

forward with confidence.

That's great. I love how you dimensionalize

these with a real story. Step number four, the key area number

four, is building the Dream Team. So I'll let you talk that

one.

I think attorneys at this point, you might

thinking, Oh, this sounds all easy, but I don't have the time

for this. Working 5060, hours a week, and you're just like, This

is not for me. Wait a

minute. Wait a minute, by the way. Time out.

Which one of your clients work 50 hours a week? Come on.

All right. Yeah. Attorneys, they work in teams

too, and attorneys know that you can't get things done alone.

They have their assistant, they have their paralegal co counsel.

So it's similar in in your finances, you don't need to be

an expert in tax, you don't need to be an expert in investment.

You don't need to be an expert in wealth transfer, risk

management, you can build a team of financial advisors, CPA,

estate attorney, insurance specialist. They will focus on

the areas that you're not good at. And so it allows you to

focus on practicing law, and a really good financial advisor

who is a fiduciary will act as that coach to help you build the

team. They'll be your accountability partner to help

you move towards your goal. So you don't have to do any of this

alone. If the all of this sounds really time consuming, this is

where you could build a team to help you with every aspect of

your financial life.

That's great. I love it. If you don't mind. Give

us a quick summation. Yeah, the financial planning 101, building

wealth while building your law firm. The four key areas are,

the four key areas are, start with your goals and

values. Just spend 30 minutes by yourself or with your spouse and

ask yourself those three questions. Figure out your

income and expenses, and if that's hard for you, work with a

financial advisor who can help you with that Smart Investing

and smart saving, where you can save a lot more and save on

taxes as well, and invest wisely. And the fourth step is

to build a dream team that will help you build lasting wealth.

I love it. Thank you for sharing. So let's look

at it from a couple different perspectives. I mentioned off

the top, if you're a young attorney, maybe you've had your

firm for 3345, years, what are the key things that a young

attorney should do for their financial future.

So first thing is look at your employee benefits.

What are some of the available benefits you have, whether it's

a four, 1k, cash balance plan, deferral, comp, health savings

account, legal, insurance, all of these areas will help you

save, smart and shelter a lot of taxes. So that's the first key

area you should look at. And then, of course, the spending

side, you know you want to grow your income and make more money,

but at the same time, you have to understand your spending, and

then you can figure out what you can do with the excess money.

And how about the other end of the spectrum? We've

had some great guests on the podcast talking about Exit

Planning and the later stages of planning for your law firm. If

someone hasn't wasn't lucky enough to start their financial

planning early in their career with someone like you. If you're

at that, I'm at the sunset here. I got five years left. What are

some of the key things they should be doing if they haven't

really put a good plan in place?

Yeah. So the first thing I would say is that

visual, what if? Scenario right? A lot of that's my typical

clients, who they're about five or 10 years from retirement,

like, Did I save enough? Did I invest wisely? Do I have things

where I should be? Have I thought about all the tax

strategies you really have to do that scenario planning, where we

take all of your income, expenses and stress test that

what does that look like? 510, 20 years into the future? When

you retire, can you live your current lifestyle, or a

lifestyle that you want to live with what we've built so really

going through the visual planning part is key for someone

who's about five years from retirement, because it gives

them the confidence to actually retire. When they do retire, no

one wants to go back to work once they retire, and certainly

there's a certain lifestyle that they also want to live, or the

flexibility or giving to their children is a big all of these

are big items that they. Probably want answers to before

they say, I'm gonna stop working.

So if you're an attorney or a business owner,

what's the number one secret to financial planning?

I think there, there's probably a lot of

planning, a lot of tax planning that you can do a lot of and

this is where, you know, building that team, if you have

your CPA and your financial advisor really connecting and

talking to each other, there are so many strategies that you can

do there that maybe in a CPA might not know a loan and a

financial advisor might not know a loan, but together, they're

saving you a lot on taxes, investing really well together.

And I think that's key. I think for a business owner, if you can

connect those two things, the financial planning and the tax,

you're going to be ahead of the game.

That's great. I'm going to ask one more question,

and then we're going to learn a little bit more about you. If

you're an attorney and you're you're like 1020 years into your

career, what's the number one thing that they wish the younger

them knew

on finances? That's a good one.

A lot of times people say, if I could tell my

myself something when I was just starting my business. So what's

the number one thing an attorney mid level in their career,

what's the number one thing they should tell their younger self,

I think, start to build your team. I have clients

who tell me, I should have started with you 10 years ago,

and you don't, you know, you don't meet everybody every

single time. It's just resources that you have, and trusted

advisors that you have to go and get the right advice from at the

right time when you need it.

So the team CPA, your financial advisor, who else

is should be on the

team, and the state attorney, insurance if

you're buying whole realtor. So just having these resources when

you need them, and proactive,

get everyone on a Zoom meeting, or meet in person,

or this is like a virtual team.

I would say, typically, the financial advisor

would meet. You could have joint meetings with CPA once a year,

that you end meeting for some clients, not every year, but

once in a while. Other times, a state Attorney, if you have a

more complex situation, and I just had one where my client has

special she has a son who has special needs, and she has two

other sons. So it's getting us together, and I'm managing the

assets, and so how to carve out some of the assets for the son

with special needs and who will manage that asset? And so

getting together with the estate attorney and even her other

sons, because they're going to be the trustees. And so

typically it's either two people meeting together. It's not the

whole team. It's when things happen in your life. You want to

connect those people, and you want to make sure you engage

people who like to connect with other your other professional

advisors.

That's great. Thanks for that. Now, we didn't

talk about this one, but I always like to ask the

consultants who work with attorneys, because we get to

sort of look from the top down, and we're looking at the

business from the outside in. What's one business development

strategy or one business management strategy that you see

that the successful guys do the least successful folks don't? Is

there one common trait that you you've identified?

I definitely think it's the people trait, and I've

been with attorneys who I feel like they have this way of

making people feel so comfortable. It's not it's not

expertise. They have the expertise, but it's the way they

make people feel comfortable, and that's what I've seen a lot

of successful people do.

Maya Angelou, it's not what I say, it's how I

make you feel. Because all these guys graduated law school, yeah,

by the way, what do you call the guy who finished last in his law

school?

What do you call it? Lawyer?

Right? It's really tough. Yeah, right, yeah.

Are you familiar with the Simon Sinek TED talk? What is your

why? Yes, yes. What's your why, what gets you up in the morning,

what makes your heart beat faster?

What's my why? I think I would say, in terms of

my profession, it's just alleviate stress. And being

someone who I live in the Bay Area I'm in sort of the

generation where to where. About my parents as well, building my

own career, having my own ambition and money is stressful,

and so I just want to alleviate stress. And a lot of people who

feel the stress, the more you make, the more stress you feel.

I don't see it being less stressful, but it's because

there's no clarity around all the planning items, the goals,

the values, the cash flow, the investment, the tax planning,

once you have clarity, it's less stressful.

That's a great one. I always love Tony Robbins

line. He says, the more money you have, the only difference is

you arrive home to your stress in a nicer ride, everybody has

stress

things the same. Yeah, you probably have to do

the drop offs. Yeah.

I know you listened to a few of the

podcasts before. So you know that for many years now, 1215,

years, we've been asking the one liners at the end. So what apps

or techniques do you use for personal productivity,

for wellness? For productivity,

I'm a bit of a productivity geek. I want to get

more done in less time and more efficiently. And a lot of times

people get give me great suggestions for apps or

checklists

or really good at keeping track of my calendar, my

Outlook calendar. If it's really good, it's just I'm really good

at blocking out time.

It blocked time to do work. Yeah, yeah, that's

great. You have a personal wellness and fitness routine in

addition to the hiking you mentioned earlier.

I don't I try to listen to calm once in a while.

At night, last night, I listened to calm to Paul sleep, and it's

a 15 minute body scan. And that I do that once in a while, if I

want that works pretty good, really fast.

Yeah, love it. What are your best business

books?

I'm in Sinek, as you mentioned, atomic habits is

one of my favorite ones, good one.

And are there any blogs, podcasts or YouTubes that

you subscribe to and when it hits your feed, you stop

everything else and listen to

my feed is very random, and I guess it's the

algorithm. I don't have a lot of podcasts that I subscribe to,

but I do listen to podcasts, and it showed up, and one yesterday

was two ladies from Stanford. It's about love business and

something else, but it's random.

Yeah, well, it's amazing. In particular, YouTube

I've found has gotten very good at predicting what you want to

see next. So like, I see a bunch of stuff about the Winnipeg Jets

hockey team, the Miami Dolphins, poor Tyree kill and then you

know that I'm going to save a lot of time on podcasts, not

listening to Miami Dolphins podcast and business podcasts

and legal podcasts and whatever sports stuff I watched most

recently, and the music I like, like it. It is a personalized

feed for me now. It's kind of like Utah is YouTube has tick

tocked itself, and then the feed is great and personal. Do you

have an NFL or sports team?

Oh, I follow three four. I am originally from Los

Angeles, so I followed the rams and the chargers, you know, now

that they've gone to LA in the last few years. Yeah, I follow

the Niners because I live in the Bay Area now. And the first game

NFL game I went to as an I was an adult already, was the

Raiders, so I follow them slightly, even though they went

to Vegas.

So you got four while fighting each other out

there in the West. That's great. Yeah, two last questions. What's

a great introduction for you? If we could send you some business,

who would you like to meet?

Oh, that's a great question. A great introduction

for me is an attorney who's very busy in their career and their

practice, and they want clarity around their finances, and they

just this seems like a burden for them to figure out, and they

want someone to simplify it, to make it actionable. So that's a

really good for me.

We love simple at 10 golden rules. I mean, hey,

company's called 10 golden rules. All you got to do is

follow the rules. And last question, Where can people get

On my website, my contact information is on my bio

in touch with you?

page on the website, teamhewins.com,

spell it out, please.

Team T, E, A, M, hewins, H, E, W, I, N, S.com,

great, and I'm sure LinkedIn and Facebook, and

we're going to put all the links at the bottom of the show notes.

So whether you're watching this on YouTube or iTunes or wherever

you get your podcasts, we'll find it there. Thuong thank you

so much. This was fun and valuable for me too. And I'm

going to build my team as I move closer to making some of those

more permanent decisions. So I thank you for your time today,

and I hope everyone enjoyed it. Thank you, Jay. You.