Transcripts
Hey everyone and welcome back to
Speaker:another episode of Demand Gen Chat.
Speaker:Today, we are super excited
Speaker:to be joined by Hana Jacover.
Speaker:She is the Director of
Speaker:Demand Gen at MadKudu.
Speaker:Welcome.
Speaker:We're excited to have you.
Speaker:Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Do we wanna kick it off quickly, 60
Speaker:seconds or less, who you, who you
Speaker:are and what you're doin' at MadKudu?
Speaker:So, my name is Hana Jacover and,
Speaker:as you mentioned, I'm Director
Speaker:of Demand Gen at MadKudu.
Speaker:Uh, we're a marketing intelligence
Speaker:platform really just hoping and trying to
Speaker:remove [laughing] a lot of the operational
Speaker:challenges for, for marketing teams
Speaker:out there, um, and we're just looking
Speaker:to build programs and content and,
Speaker:um, all of that good stuff that falls
Speaker:under the demand gen umbrella that can
Speaker:help our, um, prospects and customers.
Speaker:Beautiful.
Speaker:I love it, and how long
Speaker:have you been at MadKudu?
Speaker:Where did you come from before
Speaker:you joined the team there?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I am approaching month six, so I'm
Speaker:kind of a, still a-a Kudu baby.
Speaker:Uh [laughs] so that's been fun.
Speaker:It's been a wild ride so far, but I
Speaker:come from a pure agency background.
Speaker:So, I spent nine years on the B2B
Speaker:agency side at a few different agencies
Speaker:working for a variety of different tech
Speaker:companies, um, helping them to build
Speaker:and scale their demand gen engines.
Speaker:And what moved the needle, um, for you
Speaker:to join the dark side and come in house-
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:... versus agency?
Speaker:Yes, that is always the question.
Speaker:Um, I-I love, uh, somebody told me when
Speaker:I first started in my career, um, one of
Speaker:my mentors and dear friends said working
Speaker:on the agency side is like dog years
Speaker:because you learn so much so quickly
Speaker:and from so many different people.
Speaker:Um, so I mean that was kind of
Speaker:like why I value that time so much.
Speaker:But at, you know, I was at this point
Speaker:in my career where, um, I-I was feeling
Speaker:a little bit detached from the results
Speaker:of these amazing programs and strategies
Speaker:that we would present and build and,
Speaker:um, there's just kind of like a wall
Speaker:up and you don't get to, you don't get
Speaker:to follow through and I am very big on
Speaker:[laughs] following through with things.
Speaker:I'm very persistent and I enjoy
Speaker:seeing results and if they're not
Speaker:great, like how do we fix that?
Speaker:What's our next steps and those are
Speaker:things that you just don't always get on
Speaker:the agency side and, um, I'm a builder
Speaker:at heart for sure and I just really felt
Speaker:like I would be doing myself a disservice
Speaker:if I didn't take that, take my skills and
Speaker:everything that I've learned and try to
Speaker:actually have an impact and see it all
Speaker:the way through with a team, um, in house.
Speaker:Yeah, sure.
Speaker:There's like a-a feedback, a-a
Speaker:break, I guess, in the feedback loop-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... um, from being on the agency side
Speaker:to then just not being able to like
Speaker:actually dig into the CRM, right, and
Speaker:see what's working all the way through
Speaker:to revenue and, an-and what's not.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I agree with that.
Speaker:I also, um, had a slight stint at an
Speaker:agency, uh, B2B, serving B2B SaaS as
Speaker:well, um, and struggled with that very
Speaker:same thing just because, for me, it, I've
Speaker:always been in, um, somehow I've always
Speaker:been put in the situation where I am
Speaker:basically running it soup to nuts, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:Like strategy all the way down to
Speaker:reporting and analytics and that
Speaker:analysis piece for me is like
Speaker:what closes, uh, closes the gap.
Speaker:And I also think, you know, having
Speaker:worked on the agency side and seeing
Speaker:all of the different martech and all of
Speaker:the different tech stacks and hearing
Speaker:all of the frustrations and, um, lead
Speaker:scoring and lead management also being
Speaker:like my primary, um, area of expertise,
Speaker:I, like it's almost frustrating that
Speaker:like I couldn't do enough about it.
Speaker:Like I knew that me as a person, like it
Speaker:was a, it was a problem technology and
Speaker:very smart engineers and data scientists
Speaker:were going to solve, not me personally.
Speaker:So, I wanted to have an impact at
Speaker:that level, like where can I go as
Speaker:a person, as a human and have an
Speaker:impact on these pain points and it
Speaker:had to be paired with that technology.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely, which is
Speaker:a natural fit for MadKudu.
Speaker:Um, and you talk about your personal
Speaker:impact and, um, skillset really
Speaker:being geared around lead scoring.
Speaker:Um, what does that stem from?
Speaker:Like what is your stance on
Speaker:lead scoring and the importance
Speaker:of it or the need for it?
Speaker:Um, well, you know, I'm a
Speaker:little [laughs] biased given-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:... given where I work, but it is critical
Speaker:to also understand like why are you
Speaker:doing lead scoring and how is it set up?
Speaker:Like who is it benefiting?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right, and I wanna talk about that.
Speaker:I wanna talk about that point specifically
Speaker:because I think everybody mentions lead
Speaker:scoring and it's mentioned often, right?
Speaker:It's a very common buzzword in our,
Speaker:in our arena, but I've also come
Speaker:into a lot of orgs and even, on
Speaker:like the agency side, gotten the
Speaker:opportunity to work with a lot of orgs-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... who are lead scoring to, you know, a
Speaker:certain threshold, whatever your magic
Speaker:number is, just so that they can say
Speaker:you've, you know, viewed a random page
Speaker:enough times to be able to score up to
Speaker:be able to pass over to an SDR or a BDR-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... so that you can get talked to.
Speaker:Um, but to me, that's broken, right?
Speaker:That doesn't mean they're like
Speaker:expressing the right amount of the
Speaker:intent, um, to be surfaced to an SDR.
Speaker:To actually have that conversation,
Speaker:you're taking up a lot of time and
Speaker:resources internally for your team,
Speaker:uh, for somebody who might not yet
Speaker:really be in buying mode, but I
Speaker:would love to hear your take on that.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I completely agree and,
Speaker:um, it's just really subjective.
Speaker:Like manual lead scoring is-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... totally subjective.
Speaker:I've run hundreds of lead scoring
Speaker:workshops and it's sitting down with
Speaker:the sales and marketing leaders and,
Speaker:um, first of all, from that like you're
Speaker:missing product, you're missing, like
Speaker:you're missing a lot of the team there.
Speaker:You're missing even customer success.
Speaker:Like everybody should be involved
Speaker:in that conversation, but
Speaker:it's really just a wishlist.
Speaker:What you're given-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... is a wishlist.
Speaker:It's very subjective.
Speaker:When you start infusing technology and
Speaker:thinking about it from the level of we're
Speaker:going to look historically at data and,
Speaker:and infuse all of these different areas,
Speaker:whether it's product data, whether it's
Speaker:website data, all of the signals that are
Speaker:happening, um, that you probably wouldn't
Speaker:think about sitting down in that meeting
Speaker:and that's how we're building the model.
Speaker:It's, it's not, we're removing that
Speaker:subjectivity around, um, "Hey, this is
Speaker:our, this is our number just because
Speaker:we like these five attributes and
Speaker:anybody who hits those is an MQL."
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:So, it's more impactful because
Speaker:you can see that these signals,
Speaker:these things that are happening are
Speaker:actually more indicative of, you know,
Speaker:somebody becoming an opportunity,
Speaker:um, somebody becoming a customer.
Speaker:It's, it's removing
Speaker:that guess work really.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, I love that, and I think those are
Speaker:like some really actionable takeaways
Speaker:too, especially pulling in, um,
Speaker:leaders from other departments that
Speaker:aren't just sales and marketing into-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... that conversation, right, because
Speaker:we all, we all look at lead scoring
Speaker:with a very different lens, um, and I
Speaker:think like customer success is really
Speaker:interesting that you bring them up, uh,
Speaker:as being, as having a seat at the table.
Speaker:Yeah, 'cause I mean they're talking
Speaker:to your customers every day, right?
Speaker:Like you, and that, that information is
Speaker:so valuable to understand, okay, like we
Speaker:think we know what, what our prospects,
Speaker:our, our pain, their pain points are,
Speaker:but, you know, thinking about our
Speaker:best customers or our customers where
Speaker:we need to work on the relationship.
Speaker:Like what are the key points, like what
Speaker:are the pain points that are happening
Speaker:there and how can we learn from that?
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:No, and I-I think that's just like a
Speaker:valuable, um, insight that, even for me,
Speaker:like wasn't top of mind before you just
Speaker:said it, but it just makes total sense.
Speaker:Um, before we get into the weeds too
Speaker:much, I wanna understand more about your
Speaker:structure right now at MadKudu, um, what
Speaker:does demand gen look for y'all, look
Speaker:like for y'all, what is your lanes of
Speaker:responsibility and where does, I guess,
Speaker:where do your swim lanes kinda stop
Speaker:and the next, uh, team member's begin?
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker:Uh, so o-on the marketing side, um,
Speaker:we really sit in the go to market
Speaker:team alongside sales, so we are making
Speaker:all of these decisions together.
Speaker:Our weekly team meeting is together
Speaker:versus just like marketing versus sales.
Speaker:Uh, so I will say like that's, and I
Speaker:know that's how a lot of startups are,
Speaker:uh, their teams are structured and I
Speaker:think it's, it's definitely valuable to
Speaker:have that alignment and collaboration.
Speaker:Um, and then we're a three woman
Speaker:marketing team [laughs], so we have,
Speaker:um, a VP of marketing, Laura Kendall,
Speaker:uh, director of demand gen, me, uh,
Speaker:and then we have an amazing hybrid
Speaker:content product marketing manager.
Speaker:So um, that role has been really
Speaker:interesting to kind of see how we're
Speaker:blending, you know, the ownership
Speaker:of creating assets alongside
Speaker:product marketing, which, um, I
Speaker:think is, is something that we'll
Speaker:probably start to see more of.
Speaker:Yeah, that's actually interesting.
Speaker:I haven't talked to anyone yet
Speaker:who has a hybrid role like that.
Speaker:Um, did y'all have a different
Speaker:setup before bringing this role in
Speaker:house in this hybrid banner or has
Speaker:it always been hybrid for y'all?
Speaker:Uh, well, so, we are actually, so the
Speaker:director of demand gen role, my role
Speaker:and, um, the content product marketing
Speaker:manager role, we are actually like
Speaker:second and third marketing hires.
Speaker:Oh, I love it.
Speaker:So, totally new team?
Speaker:[laughs] Yeah.
Speaker:New dynamic.
Speaker:Totally new team.
Speaker:Um, and to get into your other question,
Speaker:so like based on these roles, we kind of
Speaker:have three different buckets and, um, on
Speaker:the demand gen side, like my objective is
Speaker:to really build that repeatable process.
Speaker:Um, that could mean a lot of things, but
Speaker:experimentation, understanding the various
Speaker:channels, what programs are resonating.
Speaker:Um, and then, you know, you asked about
Speaker:where things end, it's, we really think
Speaker:of it as like this fly wheel, right?
Speaker:Like we all can have an impact on
Speaker:the different stages in the funnel.
Speaker:So, yes, we're looking at things
Speaker:like qualified conversions, we're
Speaker:looking at things like MQLs, we're
Speaker:looking at things like SQLs, but
Speaker:we're also going beyond that.
Speaker:So, we partner again because
Speaker:we're on this go to market team.
Speaker:We partner very closely with sales to,
Speaker:you know, whether that's at the very
Speaker:bottom of the funnel and we're trying to
Speaker:push a deal across the line that's been
Speaker:in the pipe for, I don't, six months, um,
Speaker:or whether it's at the top of the funnel
Speaker:and we're looking at lead generation.
Speaker:Or even something that's also interesting,
Speaker:um, that I think is maybe not the norm,
Speaker:but will become the norm over time.
Speaker:Um, typically, at least in any
Speaker:conversation I've ever had or any role
Speaker:I've personally held, demand gen is
Speaker:looked at as net new business, um, but
Speaker:we have also rolled customer marketing
Speaker:expansion initiatives into demand gen-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... um, which I think makes
Speaker:total sense, right?
Speaker:You're already conducting all of
Speaker:these experiments and running all
Speaker:of these programs, um, to try and
Speaker:figure out what works best to your
Speaker:audience, so why should expansion
Speaker:opportunities be treated any differently?
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:And that actually is a good segue into
Speaker:like, so that demand gen pillar is
Speaker:kind of just, and it's, and I would say
Speaker:it's targeted demand gen too, um, and
Speaker:then our next pillar is thinking about
Speaker:thought leadership and content and really
Speaker:making sure that we're producing the
Speaker:assets and, um, whether, whether that
Speaker:be educational or more so consideration,
Speaker:um, or, you know, sales enablement and
Speaker:really thinking about, "Okay, what do
Speaker:we need to create for our audience?"
Speaker:And then we also have a community pillar,
Speaker:which is kind of what you were speaking
Speaker:to and that is an area where we can work
Speaker:very closely with our customer success
Speaker:team to make sure that we're not only
Speaker:building a community for our customers,
Speaker:but then, um, have the ability on the
Speaker:marketing side to broaden that community
Speaker:out to, um, our, our broader audience.
Speaker:Yeah, no, absolutely, and I think it
Speaker:all makes sense to kind of have it
Speaker:in tandem and I don't know at what
Speaker:point in marketing's evolution, um,
Speaker:customer marketing or community efforts
Speaker:kind of became its own division of-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... I'm sure for larger companies, that
Speaker:makes the most sense, but even at
Speaker:some of the small companies I've been
Speaker:exposed to, I don't know that a lot of
Speaker:people are considering, um, customer
Speaker:marketing or expansion opportunities
Speaker:within a demand gen division.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, agreed, and I-I, again,
Speaker:I'll say just working with the customer
Speaker:success team, I think we're going to
Speaker:see a lot more of that where marketing
Speaker:teams and CS teams are really aligned.
Speaker:Um, and I would say too like
Speaker:our, um, Jess, our product, uh,
Speaker:uh, product marketing manager,
Speaker:is, is kind of like this bridge.
Speaker:Like she really does a good job
Speaker:of bridging everything together
Speaker:because where thinking about, "Okay,
Speaker:what are our customers saying?
Speaker:What do they need?
Speaker:What are our prospects saying?
Speaker:What do they need?," and then rolling
Speaker:that up into these really valuable
Speaker:topics that then I can use to attract new
Speaker:people, um, or inspire people that are-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... already in the funnel.
Speaker:And you talked about your content pillar
Speaker:and I wanna make sure that we touch on
Speaker:that too because, uh, that's honestly
Speaker:how I first kind of got wrapped up in
Speaker:following all of y'all, um, because of
Speaker:all the wonderful content that you're
Speaker:putting out into the world as part of
Speaker:your demand gen or go to market strategy.
Speaker:Um, what are some of those pillars, those
Speaker:content pillars right now that y'all are
Speaker:working on and which ones are proving
Speaker:to be like most fruitful or successful?
Speaker:So, I would say we definitely have kind
Speaker:of, um, two main pillars where one,
Speaker:we're talking about product led growth,
Speaker:so we're speaking about what that
Speaker:product led growth journey looks like,
Speaker:what are the challenges within that,
Speaker:uh, journey and then getting a little
Speaker:bit more technical into like how do you
Speaker:actually operationalize, um, something
Speaker:like PLG, how do you actually manage
Speaker:multiple funnels and things like that?
Speaker:Um, and then we have this marketing
Speaker:ops audience that we also speak to, so
Speaker:we're thinking about, you know, what
Speaker:are, again, some of the more, uh, not
Speaker:necessarily PLG, but more general pain
Speaker:points that the marketing ops audience
Speaker:comes across on a regular basis.
Speaker:And, um, that has been a really awesome
Speaker:pillar that we've actually been able
Speaker:to leverage a lot of thought leadership
Speaker:from the actual marketing ops community.
Speaker:So, we're talking to marketing ops leaders
Speaker:every single week and we're, we're, we're
Speaker:hearing exactly what their pain points are
Speaker:and how they're solving them and that is
Speaker:A, really inspiring for everybody in the
Speaker:community, in the marketing ops community.
Speaker:Um, it allows them to kind of amplify,
Speaker:these thought leaders amplify their
Speaker:voices and then it also provides us
Speaker:with a firsthand look at those pain
Speaker:points and then we can take all of
Speaker:that and, um, distribute it, well,
Speaker:create, um, you know, varying levels
Speaker:of content and redistribute it, it out.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely, and I
Speaker:wanna get into the weeds.
Speaker:Like I would love, um, if
Speaker:you feel comfortable like
Speaker:sharing your secret sauce.
Speaker:I would love to know, uh, what your
Speaker:distribution plan looks like, like what
Speaker:are your primary channels, what channels
Speaker:are working the best, um, like how
Speaker:much testing have you done in terms of,
Speaker:um, content types like especially for
Speaker:repurposing, um, like all that content
Speaker:that you all are producing within your
Speaker:marketing ops confession sessions-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... um, is really powerful stuff.
Speaker:So, what does, what does it look like
Speaker:after the conversation has been conducted,
Speaker:what's happening internally in terms of,
Speaker:um, repurposing that content and then
Speaker:distributing it on appropriate channels?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Great question.
Speaker:So, after the conversation happens, um,
Speaker:we make the full recording available
Speaker:of course and then one thing that
Speaker:we have a lotta success with is, um,
Speaker:creating snippets from that main video.
Speaker:Um, and this kind of goes along with,
Speaker:with any of our video types of content
Speaker:where we'll just kind of take the, the
Speaker:golden nuggets from there and, um, produce
Speaker:its own stand alone snippets, so then
Speaker:we can push that out on our channels.
Speaker:And then we'll also, if there's an
Speaker:opportunity to kind of like merge
Speaker:that into a blog post and distill
Speaker:some of the key points there, um,
Speaker:that's something that we'll do.
Speaker:And then also, um, especially for
Speaker:a series like this where we have
Speaker:so many great people contributing,
Speaker:it's really important that we start
Speaker:thinking about a larger asset.
Speaker:You know, we're, we're taking polls-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... during these sessions, we're asking
Speaker:a lot of great questions that, um,
Speaker:you know, we're getting kind of this
Speaker:pulse check among the community.
Speaker:So, what can we do with that data?
Speaker:Um, you know, what is a larger asset
Speaker:that we can then create, um, whether
Speaker:it's kind of like a marketing ops book
Speaker:of sorts, uh, ebook, so that's kind of
Speaker:like our next step with marketing ops
Speaker:confessions is, is making sure that we can
Speaker:create, put that all together and create
Speaker:a really meaty valuable asset there.
Speaker:Um, and in terms of channels, you know,
Speaker:I think LinkedIn is still primarily
Speaker:like a really great channel for us just
Speaker:because it's where our audience is.
Speaker:Um, and I would also say like having all
Speaker:of these like micro Slack communities pop
Speaker:up in the last, you know, I know they've
Speaker:been around, but like really exploding
Speaker:the last year or so has become a-a-a great
Speaker:channel for us because, again, like it
Speaker:allows us to get so close to people and,
Speaker:and not just kind of like throw our name
Speaker:out there, but answer questions and be
Speaker:the expert and add unique perspectives.
Speaker:Um, so that's been a really great channel
Speaker:for both just engagement and making
Speaker:sure that we're, we're there to help
Speaker:answer questions and point things out
Speaker:and, and you know, help people pick a
Speaker:lane, um, but then also, um, you know,
Speaker:distri-distributing our content as well.
Speaker:Exactly, and it also like Slack
Speaker:communities to me are very interesting
Speaker:'cause like you said, um, they're
Speaker:not necessarily new, but I think
Speaker:that the way in which they're being
Speaker:used is really evolving over time
Speaker:because there are so many of them
Speaker:that people can be involved in.
Speaker:Um, like I know that my own, I'm quite
Speaker:active on a lot of Slack communities,
Speaker:so my own Slack thread has so many icons
Speaker:beside it and the different Slack pockets
Speaker:that I can hop into throughout the day.
Speaker:But I think that, over time, the way
Speaker:that we are using those channels has
Speaker:really evolved, um, because there just
Speaker:is so much competition and I, you know,
Speaker:at first, I feel like Slack communities
Speaker:were a place for you to sell yourself-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... sell your brand, your personal brand,
Speaker:your business, whatever it was,
Speaker:like your pitch, it became like an
Speaker:elevator pitch, um, montage so to say-
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:... but, um, people really got over that.
Speaker:Those types of communities weren't
Speaker:very successful, right, and now,
Speaker:you know, there are all these rules
Speaker:in place to say like, "This is the
Speaker:place for you to provide value."
Speaker:And so, especially as a brand,
Speaker:being able to hop into some of these
Speaker:communities and see what people are
Speaker:talking about organically without it
Speaker:being, you know, like um, a-a webinar
Speaker:discussion or a led conversation from-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... a brand, um, getting that natural, more
Speaker:organic exposure to the pain points
Speaker:people are having, um, and the solutions
Speaker:that others are serving up for them is
Speaker:so valuable, especially from a brand
Speaker:perspective, um, and even for us as we're
Speaker:kind of, um, discovering new markets,
Speaker:new verticals, new personas to go after.
Speaker:Um, seeing that like untapped
Speaker:authenticity that's being
Speaker:expressed in Slack communities-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... has been huge.
Speaker:What does the next phase of
Speaker:growth look like for MadKudu?
Speaker:What are some of the things that
Speaker:are coming down the pipe that y'all
Speaker:have planned that you can mention?
Speaker:Um, and if everything's like
Speaker:secretive, that's also fine.
Speaker:But would love to know some things
Speaker:that you're starting to work on now,
Speaker:like you have found a real niche
Speaker:within this marketing ops confessions.
Speaker:Do you have other plans that are in that
Speaker:same vein or something entirely different?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I-I think, you know, on the marketing
Speaker:side, like from my perspective, I just
Speaker:get excited about the opportunity to
Speaker:be super creative in our programs.
Speaker:Like we know, we know the nuts and
Speaker:bolts, we know what the foundation
Speaker:needs to look at so that, look like
Speaker:so then we can start thinking about,
Speaker:"But how do we do this creatively?"
Speaker:So, that's what I'm most excited about
Speaker:is just the continuation of, um, these
Speaker:programs that we can think about, um,
Speaker:outside of like the traditional sense of
Speaker:B2B marketing because B2B is so boring
Speaker:and we don't wanna do that anymore.
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:Um, so whether it's our branding,
Speaker:which, you know, people come to our
Speaker:site and they love our branding and
Speaker:they say, "Wow, it's so different,"
Speaker:um, and, or our messaging or anything
Speaker:along those lines like, "How can we
Speaker:do this a little bit differently that,
Speaker:um, breaks the mold and is not boring?"
Speaker:So, that's one thing I'm excited
Speaker:about, um, and you'll see kind of
Speaker:infused into all of our programs.
Speaker:But then also, I mean, something that
Speaker:we will continue to do that excites
Speaker:me all the time is just seeing the
Speaker:value that we bring to our customers.
Speaker:Hearing those stories and working with
Speaker:them closely to understand like, "What
Speaker:are, what are we solving for you?
Speaker:How are we, how is MadKudu
Speaker:making your life easier and
Speaker:what does that value look like?"
Speaker:And just the diversity of answers and, um,
Speaker:you know, seeing that evolve is exciting.
Speaker:And then of course, um, continuing to
Speaker:see just all of the iterations of the
Speaker:product, which of, you know, again,
Speaker:like our customers, we really rely on,
Speaker:on their input to help make MadKudu
Speaker:better every single day an-and the
Speaker:evolution of the roadmap and then just
Speaker:getting the opportunity to witness, um,
Speaker:you know, seeing the roadmap and then
Speaker:witnessing things being executed and
Speaker:implemented in the tool and then using
Speaker:the tool myself because, on the marketing
Speaker:side, like we obviously drink our own
Speaker:champagne and, and use MadKudu as well.
Speaker:So, that's obviously very excited
Speaker:to see the evolution of the tool.
Speaker:I love to hear all the
Speaker:things you're excited about.
Speaker:I, um, also want to make sure that we
Speaker:talk about your own personal adventures,
Speaker:um, because I think you do a lot of
Speaker:things that are outside of your direct
Speaker:relationship with MadKudu that I
Speaker:think are pretty topical and relevant.
Speaker:Um, I know that you and a few
Speaker:friends, I don't know if they're
Speaker:friends or colleagues, um, have a
Speaker:Clubhouse adventure that you all are-
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:... actively doing.
Speaker:I would love to hear about it.
Speaker:We actually just had an episode, uh,
Speaker:with Scott Stratten where we talked
Speaker:about Clubhouse and I think that
Speaker:I am in one camp and I think that
Speaker:you are in the other, um, in terms
Speaker:of the success or, um, potential
Speaker:engagement rate on Clubhouse, but I
Speaker:think that y'all are finding success.
Speaker:[laughs] I'd love to hear about it.
Speaker:[laughs] Yeah, well, I will ha-,
Speaker:put a disclaimer out there that
Speaker:we've actually taken like a little
Speaker:bit of a hiatus from our Clubhouse.
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:Um, so maybe I'm like slowly
Speaker:coming into your camp.
Speaker:[laughs] Um-
Speaker:[laughs] I love it.
Speaker:... but no, um, a few of my agency friends,
Speaker:we've always wanted to do a series
Speaker:that, called Campaigns and Cocktails
Speaker:and, um, we just were like, when
Speaker:Clubhouse popped up, we thought it
Speaker:would be a great way to just kind of
Speaker:kickstart it and see what would happen.
Speaker:Uh, so we just started this weekly chat
Speaker:where we talked about campaigns and
Speaker:drank cocktails [laughing] and it was
Speaker:really fun and, um, we, we kind of always
Speaker:start with like other people's creative,
Speaker:which was a tradition from one of our,
Speaker:our other agencies and then we selected
Speaker:a topic, whether it's, um, ABM, lead
Speaker:management, uh, you name it, content,
Speaker:like technology and then kinda dug into
Speaker:that, uh, on the weekly episode and let
Speaker:people ask questions and things like that.
Speaker:But what I will say is that I
Speaker:feel the audience on Clubhouse is
Speaker:a little bit outside of like the
Speaker:people that we're wanting to reach.
Speaker:I think that it has potential, but you
Speaker:know, like our latest conversations,
Speaker:we were like, "Maybe we should just
Speaker:have this more available and have
Speaker:it as like a monthly meetup versus
Speaker:being tied to one platform like
Speaker:Clubhouse," which is something I'm
Speaker:sure you've been thinking about too.
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think the miss for me is that we
Speaker:put so much work and effort into
Speaker:prepping for, you know, an episode,
Speaker:whether it be hosted on, you know,
Speaker:Zoom or Clubhouse or wherever.
Speaker:We put so much work and effort
Speaker:into prepping for this content
Speaker:to take place for it to be
Speaker:gone essentially on Clubhouse.
Speaker:The minute that you say it-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... it's gone, right?
Speaker:Um, it's not able to be captured or
Speaker:repurposed or evergreen in any way.
Speaker:Um, I don't know, and I just feel like,
Speaker:especially in marketing and, and I guess
Speaker:in any role, especially in B2B tech, um,
Speaker:for a fast growing startup, we are wearing
Speaker:so many hats and doing so many things-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... that for me to spend the amount of
Speaker:time and effort it would take to get a
Speaker:Clubhouse, you know, production episode
Speaker:together and it to be gone the minute that
Speaker:I speak would just be, I don't know, kind
Speaker:of like anti-climactic to say the least.
Speaker:I don't know how else to describe
Speaker:it, but it seems like such a waste
Speaker:of effort, um, because it's only good
Speaker:for that one moment in time and if
Speaker:your audience isn't on Clubhouse or
Speaker:if you're audience isn't there at
Speaker:the moment, then it's gone, right?
Speaker:Yeah, because we, because
Speaker:our goal was engagement.
Speaker:Our goal wasn't like lead gen, our
Speaker:goal wasn't repurposing content.
Speaker:It was really like, "Let's see if
Speaker:we can engage this audience because
Speaker:we all love to talk [laughs] and-"
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:"... let's just see if we can be helpful.
Speaker:Like can we answer questions?
Speaker:Can we give back and can we
Speaker:talk about some of the things
Speaker:that, um, are exciting us?"
Speaker:And, and it wasn't initially kind
Speaker:of to, um, like the goal wasn't like
Speaker:lead gen or anything like that, but
Speaker:so, for a brand, I think that it
Speaker:could be very difficult because it
Speaker:really is, it's gonna be a brand play.
Speaker:It's gonna be just you're there and others
Speaker:can see that you're there and join these
Speaker:conversations and go back and reference,
Speaker:you know, "Okay, well then I'm gonna go.
Speaker:I see Hana's at MadKudu, I'm gonna go to
Speaker:the MadKudu website and check that out."
Speaker:Um, but again, like that's
Speaker:really a brand play.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely, and even
Speaker:outside of that, it's like
Speaker:building your audience, right?
Speaker:So, yes, I'm here for engagement and of
Speaker:course that is like a great initiative
Speaker:for even, you know, for brands to partake
Speaker:in, um, but the audience has to be there.
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And I think that building, building an
Speaker:audience from scratch maybe, especially
Speaker:in the Clubhouse forum is harder than it
Speaker:would be to tap into the audiences that
Speaker:you already know are on LinkedIn and are
Speaker:on Twitter, um, and maybe already, you
Speaker:know, know about your blog and subscribe
Speaker:to your updates or whatever it is, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:Like where is your niche
Speaker:and where is your audience?
Speaker:You almost just have to, um, produce
Speaker:content, almost like you were
Speaker:mentioning earlier, multi-format
Speaker:so that wherever your audience is,
Speaker:they can consume it and I think that
Speaker:Clubhouse doesn't fit into that mold.
Speaker:Um, like if your audience is
Speaker:on Clubhouse, that's great-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... but it means you're gonna have to go
Speaker:and, you know, you're gonna have to go
Speaker:and do what we're doing right now, get
Speaker:on a-a Zencastr, record it, produce
Speaker:it for the Facebooks, LinkedIns,
Speaker:Twitters of the world and then you're
Speaker:gonna, gonna have to go separately
Speaker:have the same-ish conversation again-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... on Clubhouse, right?
Speaker:That's, I think that's the problem
Speaker:is that Clubhouse doesn't allow
Speaker:for a multi-format production.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, and I think you
Speaker:hit the nail on the head.
Speaker:If your audience isn't there,
Speaker:you know, take it off your list.
Speaker:Don't do it 'cause it's just, it's gonna
Speaker:become too much and it's not scalable.
Speaker:Sure, yeah, right.
Speaker:Let's just go dabble in all of these new
Speaker:markets 'cause, again, like, um, there's
Speaker:also this, you know, this game of real
Speaker:estate, right, and being the first to
Speaker:market, I mean, the first to do it well-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... um, right?
Speaker:If Clubhouse was, is gonna be the next
Speaker:thing and you're one of the people on that
Speaker:platform that's building an audience and
Speaker:finding success there, then the earlier
Speaker:you can get there and kind of claim that
Speaker:land, the more successful that you'll be.
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So now that's the mentality I think
Speaker:for all marketers, right, is that we're
Speaker:all here to be exposed to new avenues
Speaker:and new channels and new ideas to test.
Speaker:Like that's just part of the game and I
Speaker:think Clubhouse was a big test and I-I am
Speaker:waiting for the day that somebody comes
Speaker:at me and says, "No, like we found it.
Speaker:Clubhouse is working great for us
Speaker:and here's how we're doing it."
Speaker:Yeah, well, ring me up when
Speaker:you, uh, find that person.
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:[laughing] I'll be sure to do that.
Speaker:No, 100%.
Speaker:So, last question before we go.
Speaker:I always like to ask what is another,
Speaker:who's another marketer, another
Speaker:book, another podcast, something
Speaker:else in the space that you're
Speaker:consuming that others could go follow,
Speaker:listen to, subscribe to, et cetera?
Speaker:Ooh, that's a good question.
Speaker:Um, I'm gonna say somebody
Speaker:that is a little bit different.
Speaker:Um, her name is [Lavia Jahi 00:28:53],
Speaker:uh, Lavia Jahi Jones, um, and she is kind
Speaker:of an ex-technology marketer and veered
Speaker:off because she has this amazing personal
Speaker:branding and she talks all about fear
Speaker:and imposter syndrome and how to, um,
Speaker:push all of that to the side [laughs]
Speaker:so you can be better in your life, in
Speaker:your role, in, you know, all facets and
Speaker:I, she's also an amazing black woman.
Speaker:Um, so I-I think that that is
Speaker:somebody that, especially people
Speaker:that are a little bit younger in
Speaker:their careers should check out.
Speaker:She's got two great books.
Speaker:She is a marketer and, uh, that I
Speaker:really respect and that I've also had
Speaker:the opportunity to chat with and have
Speaker:found her stories and her storytelling
Speaker:and, um, the things that she has
Speaker:learned about being a black woman in
Speaker:tech and overcoming all of that to
Speaker:be her best self is really inspiring.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:Yes, absolutely, and we will link
Speaker:all of that in the show notes for
Speaker:anybody who wants to follow her
Speaker:or check out her books after that.
Speaker:What is the best way for
Speaker:listeners to keep up with you?
Speaker:What channels are you most active on?
Speaker:I'm probably most active on LinkedIn.
Speaker:I also am on Twitter @HanaJacover.
Speaker:Um, I'll do a little bit more like ranty
Speaker:things mostly about my toddler there
Speaker:[laughs] and then, um, yeah, I-I am kind
Speaker:of like in a, in a variety of different
Speaker:Slack channels, but probably LinkedIn
Speaker:and Twitter are the number one ways.
Speaker:Beautiful.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Well, thank you so much for
Speaker:taking the time to come on here
Speaker:and have a chat with me today.
Speaker:Um, hopefully the audience found
Speaker:this fun and engaging as well.
Speaker:Um, if you are listening to this
Speaker:and you like this content, please
Speaker:feel free to leave us a review.
Speaker:It helps us bring more
Speaker:content like this your way.
Speaker:Thank you so much for listening.
