Letting people go, holding your team accountable, and figuring out what kind of leader you actually want to be.. none of it’s simple. In this episode, Melody and Curt talks about the messiness of managing people you genuinely care about, the emotional cost of firing, and what happens when your "people-first" values run up against business realities. Expect stories, frustration, a little sparring, and a surprising amount of compassion.

What Melody & Curt Talk About:

1. Why Melody waited way too long to fire people (again) and regrets “keeping them because I love them”
2. Curt’s “boiling frog” metaphor for how dysfunction sneaks up
3. The comfort trap: when loyalty and long-term relationships blur the line between family and business
4. The great fight: Is it better to have relationships or to treat staff as interchangeable “numbers?”
5. Real talk on KPIs, weekly scorecards, and why “feelings aren’t data”
6. Melody’s February company reset: six weeks where everyone has to prove they can lead themselves
7. Struggling with being a “cheerleader” versus embracing the hard-ass accountability role
8. The exhaustion (and necessity) of moving someone out of a job, especially in a tiny team where roles overlap and money’s tight
9. The myth of “changing yourself” into the perfect leader and why building the right leadership team matters more

Key Takeaways:

1. Keeping someone just because you care about them is usually a sign you need to let them go.
2. Accountability doesn’t happen by accident—it takes structure, and sometimes, giving someone else the authority to deliver the tough news.
3. You don’t have to fit the old-school “boss” mold to be a real leader; your job is to find complementary strengths and let go of what drains you.
4. When self-accountability is missing, no number of meetings or systems will save you (but you still have to try).
5. Growth almost always means outgrowing someone. The worst part? You’ll know it long before you act.

Timestamps:

0:00 – Why it’s so hard to let people go

8:55 – Relationship vs. results: The accountability fight

31:28 – Wearing too many hats when the business is small

46:43 – The myth of the “perfect” leader and reframing leadership roles

57:58 – Growth, fear, and why change is always painful (until it isn’t)

I have waited so long, too many times to let somebody go or to graduate them to another position or like in another business or whatever. And then later I'm like, oh my gosh, why did I take so long? I was worried about like this training and this stuff.

It's the whole boiling a frog thing. Like the heat doesn't turn up like a hundred degrees at once. It turns up like one or a half a degree at a time. Welcome to the Sole Proprietor Podcast. I'm Curt Kempton.

And I'm Melody Edwards.

Each week we dive into the ethical questions that keep entrepreneurs awake at night.

Whether you're building your own company or exploring life's big questions, you are welcome here.

Hello, Melody. How are you today?

Hey, Curt. I'm doing great today. Well, doing great now today.

Sounds like you've already had a midlife crisis this morning.

I'm in actually a mini one. Mini, mini. Just because I was had such a productive day yesterday. I had ton of meetings with my team because we were doing one on ones. And then I was really psyched myself up to be the best version of me yesterday. But then once the meetings were over, I still had that energy. And then I used that energy not for what I had intended, but for other things. And then suddenly it's 3am and I'm still not asleep.

And then I didn't go see the baby this morning, which it was a mistake because I woke up at like 9:30 and I'm like, where am I?

Your sleep schedule's off too.

Well, it usually isn't. I usually wake up at 7:30, even if I go to sleep at 3 if I can't sleep. So it just started the day, not good. But I reset around like noon and I'm good.

Well, that's good. It's the first of the year and we got to be our best right now. So we need to get our sleep, we gotta come out fighting, gotta do all the things.

And it's like the first month of the year, not officially the first day of the year.

You know, it's interesting you say that, the way holiday weeks work up to the new year. I don't know when people are taking the time to even make a New Year's resolution, let alone set all their Q1 goals. All my Q1 goals were set in the first week of the year because it's kind of like a dead week. And so I still kind of view even, you know, I almost consider the entire month of January as like the first of the year.

A hundred percent Agree with that. I feel like the last two weeks of December were just. They just weren't productive weeks because our holidays were in the middle of the week. This, you know, in 2025. And so if I had wanted to actually do real Q1 planning or annual planning in December, I would have had to have thought about it like November, even before Thanksgiving. So I always make that mistake. We just forgot to do it, even though I had put it in the calendar. And so I do have to do it in January, but my goal is it'll be done in January.

I just did a really big company reset yesterday.

Yeah, how's that?

I realized that there are certain departments in my company that are really overloaded. And I say department. I have like an accountability chart. So we look at roles, we don't look at people. Right. And so we had certain people in roles that were just overloaded. And then we had. Our recruitment department had two people.

And it's always had two people. Because long ago, before I realized I could control the flow of traffic in recruitment, we could shut it down if we don't have the capacity to take more applications or don't have enough clients. I never used to do that. So it was like very reactive all the time and it burnt people out. And then sometimes people wouldn't. Would have an emergency and not come to work. And then suddenly that department is in chaos.

So I hired.

There's two people in recruitment. And that's also always been a problem for us because I never know how to quite hold them accountable. They always become. This is universally true, and I'm not sure why, but it becomes like their own little team. And it's more of a we than an I. And it really makes things very messy. So I, melody, have been wanting to change the way we recruit for a long time. I want to shut down our recruitment department and I want to flip it because we have a really great training program.

And I want to flip it so that people are taking classes with us, that our recruiters are also in those classes.

People as in potential hires, Candidates?

Yeah, anybody can take the classes. There's going to be a few that are free in the beginning, and then there'll be paid classes, but we'll give scholarships for the people that we think are really good. We're going to be looking for certain traits because how do you hire people and really, really know how they're going to be in a job, even with referrals and references? And it is so hard to know how somebody's actually going to Perform unless you're working with them first.

The devil you know versus the devil you don't know.

Right. So I moved one of my recruiters to a different department to the account manager role, so that my trainer who is doing double duty is now just the trainer. And then everybody has. I kind of went back to our main values and really went deeper in defining them because I want to always look for people, whether they're internal or for our agency clients who are curious, accountable, resourceful, emotionally intelligent, while also including owning their voice and then self motivated. And I had everybody self assessed and then I assessed them and we have chart that we put and I really went through and said, I need people who are these things. You have to embody it. You know how it gets. Sometimes people just kind of get lackadaisical, they get comfy, they don't hold themselves accountable for.

Or they'll say, oh yeah, they'll show accountability by saying, yeah, I totally agree with you, I'm sorry. And then it happens again.

And it won't happen again as they're on their way to happening again.

Yeah, and then it happens again because there's no action with that accountability.

Man, you're really speaking to me because I don't want to make it sound like I'm like calling out everyone I work with my business, but this is a discussion we've had among leadership is that like you start going through these periods of time where you're like, do we ever hit our numbers at all? Are we ever going to. Do we care? Is anyone losing sleep over this except for me? Because the bank keeps taking money out as if we're performing at the levels we're supposed to perform at. And like we have these discussions about metrics and stuff, but I feel like it's just another meeting in your day and you're just gonna do whatever anyway. So a long term employee is great because there's the like, I can finish your sentences. We know each other, we've got each other's back, we love each other, care about each other. Like that's all on the positive side, but on the negative side, it's like, who's he gonna replace me with? And I'm comfortable here. I'm so comfortable. Like it's all good.

I've talked about wanting to get an American operating partner or integrator in the company. And the way that I framed it to my team is I have let a lot of things go by the wayside because sometimes I've been exhausted with not having the energy to actually hold people really accountable. Right? Or there's times when I don't fully see what's happening until it's too late. Because there's a lot of ways that things are hidden in a company when you're not working with people in front of your eyes day to day. And by the way, everybody in my company is. They're great people. But I said I can't just keep people because I love them anymore, that I can't hold people just because if they used to be good, but they're lagging, we can't be like that anymore. And if I bring in an operator, they're going to be holding them accountable, and I need to, like, get them up to that level now.

Preach, lady. This is it. You know, it's hard to say it out loud, but, like, what you just said is so true to the point where you could almost put a button on it by saying, like. So I've got to figure out, is it better for me to have a relationship with the person I'm working with who can use that as leverage against me, or is it better for me just to have these cold, harsh relationships with contractors that I move in and out like little numbers because I want one and I need the other?

You need the relationships. But something that comes up is I really am trying to have really tight key performance indicators for each role and for each person, and that are measured on a weekly basis. And we've been working on this for, like, two years. We had it all together two years ago. And then as things shift, like, some of those don't work anymore. Even my own don't work all the time. We have to, like, keep reviewing. And so we just redid it about two months ago.

And what it comes down to is it's really important that I check to make sure that they're still aligned with the values based on the definitions that I created and agreed to, and they understand and agree to. And also their performance has to be reviewed in some way. But numbers are clear, data is clear, feelings are not. The problem is it's hard to be very consistent with that.

Can we play a game?

We play a little game, please.

You know, we're always complaining that we don't fight against each other enough. Let's have a fight.

Oh, my God, I would love to. Thank you.

I'll admit I'm going to take the position of the person that I'm not normally. But you said something that I actually think might not be true, and I want to fight.

Let's do it.

So you said it has to be about the relationship.

Did I say it has to be? First of all, I think it. You should have relationships.

Oh, yeah. I don't think that there's anything to fight about there. But like when I said either you can have someone you got a great relationship with, and I use the term even like tongue in cheek, they can use it to leverage against me, or I can have these cold relationships with people that I just hire and movement as they perform and move them out when they don't. And I think your response to that was, it's gotta be the relationship.

Well, you're right, I did say it's gotta be the relationship. What I meant was you and I are not capable of not having relationships.

So I'm gonna pretend to be someone that you don't know or maybe someone you know that's not me. But. So here's my response back. Who cares if you got a relationship? If that relationship is just being used as a way to make it so they don't have to be held accountable, they leverage it against you, what does that relationship even matter?

Well, that comes down to taking ownership of your own role in the problem. Because the problem is you. You're not holding them accountable to what the standard is with actual data. That is understandable.

So the data comes back, the person committed to doing something this week, they didn't get it done this week. If you look back in the numbers, they didn't do it last week for that. Their metrics have constantly been either yellow or red, never green.

They got to go. But I don't want that conversation to be a surprise to them, which is why I think it's so important that we are looking at that together. And sometimes I think it should be public. Like what we're doing now is we were doing leadership L10 meetings. We're going to do a whole team L10 every week for two hours. And we also do Tuesday through Friday, we do a 10 minute huddle. I don't do it, but my team does it.

Let's real quick, for the audience, let's talk about what an L10 meeting is. A level 10 meeting. Ironically, we just did away with ours this year, but we're doing for years. So level 10 to 90 minute meeting. You go through the meeting, you start off with sort of the scoreboard numbers Howard is doing on the scoreboard. Then from there you go into any announcements that need to be made and you from there you go into.

So it's personal, professional, best scorecard, quarterly like the Rock review. But like five minutes, you're supposed to keep it at the.

No one ever does that might be.

And then you're supposed to do customer and employee headlines. This is. I'm looking at our agenda. I don't do this, like, all of this. I usually skip a bunch of these things. The to do list, and then you do the identify, discuss and solve.

Yeah. IDs, as they call it. So identify issues in the company. Discuss and solve. Try to shoot for three of those each week. 10 level 10 meeting. And then at the end you rate it and hopefully everybody rates it a 10 score.

The meeting. Yeah. Why'd you get rid of it? I'd like to know that.

Yeah. We found that people would report their numbers didn't make it. We don't have enough time to get accountability, push back on us. By the time we get to the issues, we've got other problems. And it just like, well, you can hold me accountable, but I've got a whole team that I gotta hold accountable to this. And honestly, I'll tell you, my relationship now, maybe this is where I'm not a very good person to fight with anymore. Because you've basically said all the things that I agree with. It's just that in practice, what my experience has been is that that relationship takes precedence over everything else.

And so as soon someone gives you a commitment, you go, well, we have a relationship. So I'm going to take that commitment at face value where, you know, at some point you have to say to that relationship, well, and I think this is just where. Just have to have a little more spine, probably is that, you know, we have a good relationship as far as people we've talked and, you know, I love you and you care about me, but I can't keep you in the company. I think that was the key component you said, like, it's not a surprise because we brought it up. I think at this point I could look back on the numbers in my company and genuinely, I don't want to like, like, throw anyone under the bus. But, like, we don't hit our numbers very often and everyone's got a reason why.

Also, can we say we made up these numbers? Right.

Yeah. So the number was unrealistic or this week was different or just like all the other ones.

There's always something. Yeah.

Or we're not even measuring the right thing that matters right now, so it's okay if we miss it. Or I've got a blocker that is outside of my control and never just gloss over like, it's okay. And if I was the proper kind of tyrant, I would say, well, that was what you're hired to do. And if you're not doing it, then I can't keep paying you.

I a hundred percent want to disagree with you because we're fighting. But I'm going to agree with everything you just said as being the problem. What I am doing is I reset everybody. And this is my goal is I said to them all, I hired leaders in my company. And what's happened is people have started to become like doers instead of leaders. And I said, if you can't change into being a leader, then you can't be here. I'll help you find another thing. We're a recruitment agency.

We can do that. But I'm not keeping people just because anymore.

I said that too. By the way, I had a meeting where things are about to change around here. Mine is a little different. Things are about to change around here. I am not going to be able to keep accepting subpar work or missing. And everyone's like, whoa, he means business. I think the fourth time I said it and nothing had ever really, no one ever lost their job because of it. I think that people started to not believe me.

Well, the difference is that I have let go of a lot of people and people have seen that over time. But we didn't hold people accountable last quarter. Like, we weren't holding people accountable to their projects. The goals that I had set for them. There was a lot of things that were going on. Always there is. And I wanted to give them the chance to do a reset and to really see if they can do the jobs that they're hired for. What I really care about is, can they actually do the job now? Denise, my person, it's the visionary strainer.

Yes. So she has reminded me a couple of times since yesterday when I've said, oh, I don't think this person can do this part of the job. She's like, we don't change the role to suit the person. And every time I'm like, oh, yeah, that, that's why, Curt, you and I can't be the person who's always doing the accountability part. We need that person who's the communication buffer, who's a hard ass, who doesn't care the way that we care. And. But we have to give them the power to do that. And also everybody has to know that they are being held accountable.

We have a deadline of February 27th. I think it's Friday, February 27th. Is the end of the work month. And so everybody knows that's it. I gave them 45ish days. Well, it's really 43 instead of the 30 I wanted to because I was like, 30 is actually pretty unreasonable to expect that kind of dramatic change. And going longer, like a quarter would be too long for me to actually sustain the measurement that I want to make. But I can do 40 something days holding people accountable where everybody knows that this is a thing.

I do know it's going to work because if it doesn't work, the people who can't, they just won't be able to stay. And I love them all, but they know that I'm serious.

I was serious, too. I just wasn't seriously spineless, I guess.

Did you have somebody helping you, though?

Yeah, I did, but he was spineless too.

Well, then there's the problem, right?

It really does come down to the fact that I think Brandon Vaughn said it best. I was in a meeting with him once and he said, well, a couple of things. Number one, stop calling him family and start calling team. We do refer to our employees and stuff as family a lot of the time. I think I said this on another podcast where he said, like, why do you feel like you need to hire your friends? Like, why do you need to, like, buy friends and pay them every week and month? What bad thing happened to you that felt like you had to pay for friends? And I'm like, what are you talking about, Brandon? He's like, I get the feeling when I talk to you that you are at the mercy of these friendships when. When in fact, you're the employer paying them. And I was like, ugh.

Wait a minute, though. Can I just call Brandon out on that statement? Because, you know, when you're in the coaching role, you can say stuff like that with authority, call people out, and then you walk away and go do your own thing. But it's going to stay with you, right? I guarantee. Brandon has kept people on too long because he cared about them.

Let me put it this way. He did a good job.

You're saying reframing it because I call.

Them team in the context of the conversation point to where they hurt you kind of thing. It was like, really like, Curt, do you realize that you're treating these people like they're in charge and you must continue with them regardless? And, you know, training's hard. Training takes time and money and a lot of energy. And there's the devil you know in the devil you don't know. So this one at least I know what this person really is good at, and I'll know those things are gonna get done. And the next person I hire might be completely different, and they might be really good at the thing I'm trying to get done. But A, they might not. And then B, if they are, they might be bad at the other stuff that this other person's gonna.

So there's like this devil you don't know. And so what happens is when you're really busy and you got a lot going on, you have this relationship, this person, you care about them. There's just so many things on the balance that are weighing down on the other side of keep them that you almost won't even look at the other side of the balance to say why you wouldn't keep them.

Well, but we know. We know we're not supposed to keep them if we're questioning keeping them, right?

Yeah. But then, like, I would spend my entire life now, again, Brandon would tell you, hey, I've got this special software called Hirebus, and honestly, I used Tire Bus and I found some great people, but also couldn't keep them.

There's no magic formula.

There is no. And that's the question, are you willing and able to basically spend your job making sure that you acquire the right talent and hold that talent accountable at the leadership level? Because then. And then it goes top down. So once you're doing a good job of that, then those people, you know, anyone below them, their direct reports, they would do as well. So I know that the purpose of today's discussion that we really want to dive into is sort of being focused for Q1, and we've talked a lot about employees and a lot about keeping people in relationships versus accountability and all that. I don't know how much deeper we're going to go down this particular rabbit hole, but I will say maybe this.

Is the conversation, Curt, and I'm fine.

With that if that's what we want to talk about for Q1. One of the most important pieces that I got out of that conversation with Brandon was the moment you start feeling like, I can't let this person go. You have to question your motives. And I'm not perfect at it by any means, but I do think that oftentimes my motives are not nearly as pure as I would think. Like, I love the person and I don't want to retrain. I don't want to go find someone, and I don't want to have to find out all the chinks in that armor. And I Don't want to have to get the download of brain trust into that person. And like, there's so many things that you're like, you know what, if you're like 20% good at your job, that's actually less work for me than to find someone.

I've definitely been there. And every company, every single company I've owned, I've always struggled with that. Some people naturally do not struggle with that because they are not people who care as much as we do about. We care deeply. I'm a people first company, right? If you're a people first company or if you're a purpose driven company, whatever it is, it's really, it eats at me because in my heart I'm like, I'm thinking about their families, their livelihood, everything they rely on. And then also I'm like angry because they've put me in a position where I even have to think about this because they're not being who I hired them to be. And also they're not working at the level I know they could. Right? Sometimes people fall into ruts.

We fall into ruts. But I just expect a lot from people around me. And then there's people who are really always operating at the highest level. It's not fair to them when you have people who are doing less or who are not as accountable or you know what I mean? Like, it really affects everything. And so the question is, can we as leaders hold people accountable? I know I am not good at the week to week, like really making sure everybody's dialed in. That's why Denise took over that role of being kind of the operations manager. But I'm actually taking her out right now for the month of February or till this, for this project, because I think they've learned to rely on her as like the babysitter. And I want to see everybody holding themselves accountable to their own thing.

So it'll be an interesting. It's not an experiment. It's happening. I'm really serious about it and I have high expectations. But I promise them all it's going to be very clear expectations.

The expectations will matter more, unfortunately, when you make somebody hurt. I'm just saying that from experiences like I came in and like really made a ruckus, it didn't really change much because I didn't change much. And so I know from experience, like, anyone can rattle sabers, but when it comes right down to it, the real change, the real effectiveness is probably not going to come until you do something that backs it up, that really hurts. Like A son of a gun for you.

Well, we should be leading the vision, and we should definitely. Like, I think of myself as being really good at rah rah and at the cheerleading. And also in moments like yesterday, I psyched myself up. I had really, very transparently open conversations with each person on my team, and some were harder than others, but I felt like they see what I'm doing. We are all on the same page now. We've all agreed to it, and now I have to create these reset plans or correction plans with very clear metrics. So I've been working on that today. Thank you, AI, Because I'm loading in all the things I've already made over time and all the scorecards we have and the job descriptions and everything.

And that's going to help me to be able to do it a lot quicker. And then they're going to have to hold themselves accountable, because when we do our L10, it is going to be a little different because we're going to be looking at, like, are they reaching their things? But this is a cumulative thing. So in a way, I'm feeling like if I can get them to be able to do the thing I want them to do. First of all, it's six weeks of practice. So, Curt, what I'm trying to say is we are the vision. We are the people who have created this vision. And oftentimes we get so bogged down in the stuff, like holding people accountable or, like, thinking of how to solve the problem of somebody not doing what they're supposed to do, and all of the stuff that neither of us likes to do. Like, we just like to dream and make ideas and solve problems creatively, but not, like, implement the problems necessarily.

But, like, if you have the right person in that role who is caring, but people know that they can't mess with that person. You need that buffer. I need that buffer between me and everybody because I am a softie. Are we going to change who we are? Is that an easy thing to do as a leader?

In essence, isn't that what Levine leadership is, is just becoming the person that is maybe really uncomfortable, but you have to be.

No, I don't agree with that anymore. Let's have an argument about that. Because what I've decided is what's easier changing everything about who I am so that I can be the male, masculine definition of what a leader is. By the way, in our head, a leader is somebody who speaks with, like. It's not an emotional thing. It's somebody who speaks with authority and they have people's respect, but they also, you know that you're not going to mess with them. You respect them. You know that they do what they say they're going to do.

And so you don't mess with them because you know that you'll be out. From my point of view, I'm not ever going to be that person, but I can be parts of that. I want to be the best version of me as a leader and then I'm going to put somebody in between me who's going to have the other skills that I need to make sure that the role is complete. But it's going to be with two people. Does that make sense?

It makes sense and I think, I believe it even. I just, I haven't had enough time to like push all its buttons and make sure.

Well, I do this with our executive support. The way I talk about it is even when I was, when I first got an office person, I had no business getting one. I couldn't afford it. But what I recognized is getting somebody in who would basically be have the stronger executive functioning skills that I lacked to do the work that I was not consistently doing was going to be worth my money. I considered a part of my paycheck because I hated it and she would do it better than me. And she did. And she made her salary back tenfold because she actually, when you bill on time or when you remember to bill people, you actually get money. You know, if you're estimating a job, you don't give that best friend discount because you don't care because you're not the owner, you know, so it just taught me a lesson and I've taken that through to understand I don't have to be everything.

Yeah, you have to make sure everything's covered, but not necessarily by you. But you do have to then hold that thing accountable to getting done.

But with the right person, you don't have to hold them accountable until they get comfortable.

Melody. Once they get comfortable, they start to back off. It's human nature. Melody.

The right person who is going to cover the hard ass part of your.

Job, I can fight you on this. So here's the deal. I believe that there's no shortage of good people out there. There's lots of good people out there. I think there's lots of honest people out there. I think there's lots of skilled people out there. But I don't believe anyone has the full power ups in every area required to do a job by nature. And that people are going to have parts of their job that they gravitate to and will get it done without being pressed and find the right person and they won't be held accountable to, you know, a certain extent of their job.

Maybe my jobs are too wide open, like too big of a scope perhaps, but I think this is universally true is that somebody gets into a job that they are 80% good at and then 20% of it is just like the paperwork stuff that has to be done or whatever. And I don't think you're going to find, okay, fine, in a rare situation, you'll find a person. Some people who are powered up all the way and don't be held accountable in every regard all the time. But I do think that human nature will pull everybody away from all the things they should be doing and have them just let up. They'll let off the gas.

First of all, we make up job descriptions and sometimes job descriptions maybe shouldn't be how they're written. So for instance, we might have a lot of expectations of somebody in a role that maybe shouldn't be a part of the role. I'm thinking of sales. Salespeople are the worst at organization.

Sales are the worst, period. No, I'm just kidding.

I just find that they're really bad at keeping things organized and keeping the right notes. They're good at people, they're good at selling. Should that person also, when they goes against their nature, have to be in charge of all that paperwork that is now required?

Who else is going to have the information? And do I have to go hire another person to cover the shortcoming? For every demo call you're on, every sales call you made where you figured out information and learned it. I don't want to go in the CRM and put that down. Well, who is. Am I going to have to hire someone to sit next to you and watch you all day do that work?

Here's what it's going to do. If your salesperson was actually putting their energy directly into selling, you know that the paperwork is a drain. Putting it in the CRM, super draining. They're wasting really good productive energy on that. Hire a virtual assistant who is going to be the person who they just voice memo to. And even with AI now they won't.

Voice memo because that's the same thing as taking notes. And they got to remember everything and think about it. But I want to run another sales call. People. People.

Yeah. So you have the V.A. just poke them. That's part of their job. Poking.

I really, man, I'm really fired up because I've had enough salespeople and salespeople particularly, I think we can really do this with salespeople. I feel like a good salesperson. And basically all salespeople, if they're going to be in the role, they are people people, and they'll do good. A great salesperson has the ability to translate that, that durability part of the component, which is they take good notes, they follow up on those notes, they do all the things you gotta do. So we get CRMs to help tickle people to automate. Like, hey, it's been two days since this contact's been reached out to. So they kind of have this to do list they've got to follow and they drag their feet and do it. If I have to hire a VA who is constantly babysitting a grown man or woman in this role to say, hey, what happened on that demo? I don't know.

That was three demos ago. I got another demo. Got to go to see you. Like, I've seen it in practice. It's like, I'm going to spend a bunch of money to make up for this person's. I'm using air quotes right now. Shortcomings. But, like, the things that they don't find natural to them, I'm going to have to do everything I can to pave the road for that person so they can do their role.

And my experience has been the more you roll out that carpet to try and make that job as easy as possible for that person, that's when I start getting the most taken advantage of. It's when I spend a bunch of money and then the other person who's trying to harness that person is really frustrated too, because, like, you don't think I'm doing my job. But here's the thing. I've got 17 Slack messages, three emails, four voicemails, and 16 phone calls, all outbound trying to get this information you have tasked me with. And I can't do it.

I've seen it. I match people for this, so I've seen it work. And when I have a great executive assistant, their whole job is to hold me accountable with my permission. Their whole job is to poke me. And I feel awful about that, by the way, because I know I'm a grown adult and I know that I could remember all these things. But what I've learned is that if my energy goes to the things that actually matter for the growth of the company, for instance, or you know what it's like when you are in the zone. When you can live in that zone and somebody else is helping with the things that are not the zone, you are exponentially more successful. If you stay focused.

For a salesperson, I don't think you should roll out the red carpet for them. Hold them accountable to like, you can get 50 new clients a month, then you get to keep your va, who's going to do all your notes and make sure that you're sending the things to people that you want to send at the right time. Because software just becomes another job that we have to do. No offense, software.

No, I hear you, business owner.

And everybody says, oh, but AI, AI is another job. Now. It's supposed to be an automation. It's a job.

You really have to micromanage the AI.

So my point is that we could say we want this perfect thing where we've created a job description that we decided based on the norm of everywhere else, which some guy created probably decades ago, that we've just continued to be like, well, it worked for them, let's make it work for us. And then we get in and we're frustrated and we think corporations are holding these people accountable. They're not. They might hold them accountable to numbers, but they're not holding them accountable to every single thing on their job scorecard. Because my husband works for a corporation and he complains about these scoring self assessments and score things he has to do. I guess what I'm saying is it's possible, but we have to reframe and get creative. And I think about the numbers that I want, like the goals I have for my company and sometimes I wonder if I've set us up for failure because of the things that I'm expecting from people that to me are basic but we're like not normal.

I think that just goes back to what I was saying earlier is like, you think your expectations may be too high.

Not for everything.

Well, for the numbers that you're asking your people where I would say, why is corporate America bringing in millions of dollars a day? Like you get your business to a million dollars, you're like, cool, I made a million dollars. They're like, if we don't make a million dollars today, we're out of business. Like they have something that's working. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's the place I want to work and live, but obviously they've got a well tuned machine that works. So when everyone complains about corporate America, before you get too crazy complaining, one of the things is like, is that a major contributing factor to why they're able to do something that you couldn't even like scratch your fingernail on with what you're doing?

They have a lot of people in place to make that happen too.

And why, why did the machine build itself and throw all those layers of people on top of each other?

The machine didn't build itself. Somebody had started.

It's the way snowballs work. It's success of the success of the success of the success. And I think that at our very low center part of the snowball, where we're growing our own entrepreneurial ventures, we often give the people in the middle of the snowball, you didn't throw another layer on. You know, it's probably just too much to ask. And that's kind of what I, the heart of what I'm getting at is that I know that I'm going to ask people to do things that they like. And part of what I'm going to ask them to do is things that they don't like. And I need to hold people accountable to both agree. Okay, so we're on the same page there.

So then what gets troubling, I say troubling. This is where my weakness becomes very exposed. Is okay, now I need to make sure that I put on a tough face. I build out the system, I hold people accountable. And when people don't meet muster, I kind of kick them out and then start over. And that doesn't mean that only one person in any given week will put you through that. And this is the hard truth of someone who really loves working with people. You may find that many times per month you are moving through people to try and find that person.

Moving through someone is such a big, hard, emotional, physical, like mental.

You mean like you're hiring people that are not the right people?

Yeah, because you get someone in and on paper they're great. Their interview is great.

They're not the right.

Yeah, the experience that they had, they're going to think you're going to go, you put them on the 30 day trial, 30 days comes up, they haven't met it. But you know what, we're so invested. Let's go another 30 days. You didn't quite get it in 30 days. You know what, this is just the norm. Just try to beat your score from last week. If we get progress, I'll count progress as successful. They do, they don't.

Whatever. And at some point you're like, geez, I'm like six years in with this person, they've never even metrics I hired them for. And you say to yourself, at what point do I go through the emotional and mental part of letting them go and put all my energy into really finding somebody who's going to master this job? Just to use sales as an example, maybe it's a job that I'm not even very complimentary for, but I am the overseer of that particular department in my little business. So I don't like how, like a sales director or a sales manager or VP of sales to, like, just say, like, as the CEO, hey, you keep that sales arm going. Like, I got to go find someone and train them. I have no business training a salesperson. So then I got to figure out my system for that, my plan. And then part of it is the who, not how.

Like, okay, here's what I can do. And I can tell you this, but look, I hired you because you've set up a sales team before, so I'm going to expect you to do this. They go in and they're like, okay, I can do my job. I just need $60,000 worth of resources of software and flight tickets and conferences to go to and lead payment for leads. And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, hey, I hired you for a job. And they're like, yeah, I could do my job. As soon as you do a bunch of other stuff that I need.

You're already out of energy, so I'm not. This is the most negative podcast we've ever done together.

I love that I get to play the positive role here.

I guess I'm just like, this is not trivial stuff is the point. And I don't want to paint the picture like, it's not overcomeable. It's the first of the year, and we have an opportunity now to, like, think about, are we ready to take on what it takes to be successful? Successful, because this is why successful people are successful is that they're willing to be the hard nose. They're willing to say what they mean and mean what they say. And like, every day, every day, I do an audit of myself. I audit myself and I go, did I get everything I need? Can I finish today? Do I need to push anything to tomorrow? You know, I plan my day for tomorrow. I go through my to do list from today. We've talked about this on the podcast before.

Am I willing to do the hard thing where I audit? Maybe not every day. That sounds like a micromanager to me. But in some roles twice a week, in other roles once a week. I don't know what the frequency is, but if you're at the top of the food chain, are you willing to do the audit? And then when you're tired and it's the end of the day and you're just, you want to do nothing but be done, are you willing to make that decision that goes, all right, you got to have the hard conversation with this person to either coach them up and truly do the work, to coach them and put some sort of plan together. They're going to succeed. Or am I going to do the hard work of letting them go searching, finding, retraining, learning about the devil, I don't know. And getting that brain trust in the other person's head? Because if you are willing to do that, that's where I see success.

Here's the deal. I feel that deeply because how many times have we been through that cycle? I mean, I've been through it so many times. I'm thinking of my salesperson, Angela right now. I am not the person to train Angela on sales because I have been horrible at this. I've not grown our sales at all. And so I knew that I needed a salesperson. And also it shouldn't be me who's training her. And so I joined a group.

I joined Prospecting on Demand pod and it's a really great group. It's a six month program. She's in that program and one of her jobs right now is just to do the program, learn the program, live the program, and don't listen to me when I push back on something unless it's not a values alignment. That's the only place where I'm allowed to give input. Otherwise we're doing it their way. Because my way didn't work. And it's not that it didn't work completely, it's just the hardest way to build a company now. At the same time, her whole job is supposed to be closing leads, but we're not getting enough leads.

So she is now helping with marketing because we're doing Facebook ads. So you're right. I can't hold her accountable to her job right now until we have enough leads coming in to actually make it a very clear assessment of whether she's hitting her marks or not.

This is where being a small business is really hard because we've thrown around a few things like, well, if they're not gonna do it, just get someone else that will. Or if they can't do it, just get them a VA or assistant at some point. You're like the Reason I'm the size I am is because I can afford three employees, Operations, finance and leadership or whatever. I don't have the budget to just keep throwing more money. So that what you do, what you just said, which is to say, I signed up for sales. We don't have enough leads. So here I am in Facebook meta adverts.

Well, there's. She is doing that. They are doing it with us and she enjoys it. She does not like doing the ads.

So here she is doing something she doesn't want to do.

Yeah, of course. But what I told her is, and when we get enough leads coming in, I'm investing the money right now in both the coaching and the Facebook ads. So we're doing that and we're actually having success with Melody Manager more than we had with Home Service va. So that's good. But it is my dream. But once those Facebook ads are working well, I'm going to hand it over to somebody else. The reason why I haven't done that is because Facebook ads are very delicate things I've discovered as I've blown lots of money on them over the years. And I want to hand something to somebody where we know that it works already.

So my point is, I need people who are adaptable, of course, but there is going to be a point where Angela's going to be held accountable for her actual role, but she's helping with two roles right now. So in this new, like, reset, I'm not holding her accountable to her actual job description. I'm holding her accountable to the goals that I'm setting for this 45 days till end of February thing.

So you're not tracking activity, you're tracking results.

We're tracking activity too, but we're tracking results.

And that's what you actually care about?

Yes.

So what if she's doing all the right activity and that measured out fine, but the results are bad, then what do you do?

I think it's a me problem because it's not a her problem. She's good. She does close deals when people meet with her.

So if she is not reaching activity and she's not reaching her goals, then what do you do?

She has to go, oh, yeah. But it would be clear because if we're writing in the plan, I don't know fully how to say what the plan is because I was supposed to finish it today and it's still not completely finished. But each person has their own plan and it's going to have certain KPIs. Some of them, they already Have. But then there's going to be certain ones that I'm looking at that are important because there are areas that they weren't doing well in before that I need to see some growth in. And those are what I'm going to be measuring.

Here's the deal. What you just described as the CEO is exhausting. And we know that because 45 days.

I can do it for 45 days.

If she doesn't make it 45 days, you gotta go find someone else who's willing to do sales and marketing and their hearts in it, and they're ready to go. And then you got another 45 days. And look, I'm only saying these things because I have been able to tell people the right answer for all these years of like, I know the right things to do. And then, like, I get into it and I'm doing it and I'm like, hey, that's supposed to be a lot easier than it is. And the fact is, is that this 45 days may end in treachery of letting someone who's perfectly awesome at sales go. But the marketing, they weren't doing the activity. They don't like doing it. They weren't doing a good job.

Wasn't get the results you needed. You had to let them go. You went and found someone else who did all the work. You brought them in. 45 days later, you had to let that person go. And after six runs of 45 days, you're like pissed and exhausted and poor because you spent all this money. And at some point you're like, I should have just kept one that was decent. And I should have just like, I can't do this forever kind of thing.

That's what happens when you're small. And this is what I want to say to my entrepreneur friends listening right now. When you're small and you're asking people to wear multiple hats, you're trying to get your business to a certain place. And just to like, spoiler alert, the place you're trying to get is where people are more specialized and better at their jobs and more powerful so that you can kind of start spinning on that productivity. But when you don't have enough payroll for 70 employees or. But not even 10, like, really any business needs like 10 people to like, run all the different responsibilities. And so. But you can't afford 10, you can afford two.

What happens is, is that now you're asking to pay someone a meager salary for a big, broad job. They only care about a certain bit of it, and they're only good at a certain bit of it. And you got to train all of it. And that's where I think the conundrum lies, where you find yourself with somebody who obviously they're not good at their job. Why they got four jobs, they got five jobs.

And I have completely agree with you. This is why I'm doing the reset. One person was doing two jobs and one of those jobs was completely. That was the urgent one, the account manager, that comes first. And so her focus was there. Whereas the training role, that's less like, unless we're actually training people doing the projects or putting out training courses, that can wait. And so I can't hold anybody accountable when they're doing separate, different jobs unless I separate the roles, which I did.

That's also smart. And that's kind of part of what I was getting to, is that, like, when you're small, you may have to just say, this job doesn't get done in this business business, but we're going to be so good at the other stuff that it's just going to have to be okay for now.

What I'm holding them accountable is to holding themselves accountable for 45 days. That's the trick here. If they can't hold themselves accountable, people in my company who are on a daily basis, they get their list done, they hold themselves accountable to the list, and they don't forget the things. My whole goal for this time period is to see who is going to hold themselves accountable. I'm not going to do it unless it's during that L10 meeting.

Well, that's the other thing. Holding people accountable, like, that's not in yours or my nature anyway, which makes it tiring. And then when you're at the top of the food chain, like right now, I have five people in a company that report to me. Well, holding five people accountable, if I was good at it would suck, right? Like you said. But I have five people that report to me. Marketing, sales, customer success, development and product. So, like, who can I have them report to? I'm not big enough to hire another executive to have them all report to some sort of middle manager. I guess all I'm saying is, is that, like this tenacity, it's a choice.

It's probably reasonable to believe that there's a certain amount of mediocrity you're going to have to put up with. I just think that's how it's going to be at the early stages. But I think the goal is, is for you to change because what got your business to where you're at right now probably won't get your business to where you're trying to go tomorrow, you know, And I say tomorrow.

What got us here won't get us there. Yes.

And I think that that mediocrity, it's not that they're mediocre people. The kind of person that gets your business off the ground is the one who's willing to pick up anything on the ground and start run it. And they aren't going to let perfection stand in their way. Like, I got three jobs to do. I don't have time to like micromanage or even spend time reflecting on how good that is. I just, I checked the box, I moved on. And I think that those people are some of the hardest workers. In fact, my experience is, is that those people will actually care about your business more than you will.

I don't know what it is, but they're hardcore. And then you get to a point where like, I need someone who is not a fire putter outer, but they're like a laser focused thing. Maybe not in every. Because you don't have enough money to like hire all at once, but like, I need a laser focus. So and so that's where it starts to become really key as you start understanding where you're at and where you're going and what's needed right this second. Because then at some point you do hire someone who is really good at this one thing and it might mean that the super loyal, awesome person, they're just not cut out for this business anymore. I think that's where it really hurts the heart.

For me.

That's what made it really hard to keep moving from layer to layer or from stage to stage is because you throw three or four layers on and before you know it, your whole business has changed. And you start looking at the people who are in the business and you go, are these the right people? Like, they're so loyal, they're so good. I love them so much.

I've done a lot of work the past two years that has been more proactively looking at my company, which has changed my view. I've definitely just hacked it together for long periods of time. But when we created our accountability chart, we put all the roles that I can foresee needing in the company for the next couple of years. And some of us fill multiple boxes. So when I was saying like Megan likes and I went to this some sort of event, but they taught me that there should only be three people that the Top person should ever be managing no more than three, which I love, because I don't want to manage more than three. I'd like to manage, like, one. Maybe. It's basically the growth, the operations, and then the office.

I say office, operations and then growth, and then everything else falls under that. But I'm in charge of growth. And I'm also like, the head of marketing and the head of sales. And then there's Angela, who is the salesperson, who is also the marketing assistant. So do you see? Like, I know where things are going. Angela might not be the right person to be head of sales in the future. She might be a great salesperson, but that's kind of why I'm looking at it in a different way of, like, I know if people are going to be able to be moved into the right place for them, it's going to be clear because they'll fit the description of what we need, what their skills are. We might be able to move people up, but we might not be able to.

I've lost a lot of people who have. I graduated them because they did not fit anymore. It feels awful, but it's more awful when you're thinking about it for five months than when you actually take action and do something about it. I have waited so long, too many times to let somebody go or to graduate them to another position or like, in another business or whatever. And then later, I'm like, oh, my gosh, why did I take so long? I was worried about, like, this training and this stuff.

It's the whole boiling a frog thing. Like, the heat doesn't turn up, like, a hundred degrees at once. It turns up, like, one or a half a degree at a time. And honestly, as you're talking about this, like, chart and paperwork and all the stuff that you've gotten, like the positions. I think that's the key is you. The saying goes, you measure with a micrometer, you mark it with chalk, and you cut it with a chainsaw. Like, you get all precise, but at the end it won't matter. But you're at least going to be in the right spot because you measured it with a micrometer and you got it just where you need it to be.

By the time you marked it with chalk, the micrometer didn't matter anymore, but you're in the right spot. Like, you're sure of that. And then when you hit it with the chainsaw, it's probably not quite where you measure the micrometer, but it's that dedication to say, I'm Going to keep pushing through, keep trying.

And I do have to give myself credit because I've invested a lot of money, just like you, in trying to learn the way that a corporation would work, for instance, or understand how to run a business better, how to be a better leader, all of these things, how to do sales better. Sometimes we choose the wrong investments in terms of, like, who we're learning from. But I've learned a lot of things that have really helped us. And I take what I think works for us now. But I'm dedicated to the bigger vision. And the only reason I get away with this is because I have somebody like Denise in the middle. And like I said, also, she doesn't want that role, which is why I'm trying to get an American operator. But I get away with it because I'm not the person who has to always hold everybody accountable.

She has to do it.

That's really the crux of what I think our discussion's about today. We kind of found our way roundabout. But to me, the thing I'm taking from today's conversation is, is that I don't think accountability is going to happen on its own. I think there's too many opportunities to redirect the pressure to a more comfortable place. And as long as you've got your micrometer measurements of the charts and the flowchart, what it will look like. And yes, you do have four jobs right now, but it won't be like that forever. In fact, I'm going to even abdicate one of these jobs. I'm not even going to do it at this stage of the game, but I'm intentionally not doing it.

It's that ability to come back and check to make sure that you're not off course. It's exhausting when you're already tired doing three or four jobs. So I think that's where I would call people's attention from the sole proprietor podcast perspective right now is like, I would say that's worth it when you're tired and you just need to take one more minute and just go over like, are we still on plan? Are the people still doing the things that they said they would do? Or is the activity matching up? Does the activity yield the results that I need? And can I hire for this thing can move this person, this other place? Like, I think you made another good point that I think needs to be brought out, which is you said two things. You said, I'm not going to hold myself accountable. So I got someone who would. And I think that's kind of key here is, like, if I'm not going to do it, who will? And if you don't know who that is, then that's kind of like item number one. But then item number two is sometimes graduating people up is the way you'll go. And other times you talked about maybe your sales gal, like, isn't going to be a good sales manager.

So you graduated down below someone you bring in and, like, you know where that fits in the chart and you know what your need for your business is. So you have the conversation with someone like, look, I know you've been at the company longer. I'm about to hire a superior to you. Not because I don't think you're superior at what you're doing, but because I now need someone who has experience setting up a sales team.

Yeah. Or managing people or leading people. The big mistake that a lot of companies and corporations even make is in my husband's work. He's an engineer. They'll hire an engineer. Like, they'll just push up an engineer to become a manager. Well, they weren't trained to be a manager. They weren't trained to be a leader, and they just were a good engineer who got promoted.

I don't think that's the answer. I think the answer is, yeah, bringing somebody in, but also being really transparent with your team so that everybody understands when they're coming in, how the company works, where we're trying to go. The thing that really changed my business world the past two years was doing the annual planning work. That was really key. Taking those two days of just planning out the year and what the vision is, having the one page of, like, what our company is going to look like at the next five years and all that stuff. But then really committing to the quarterly planning for that one day of quarterly planning. I failed so far this year.

You have. You still have time.

I know I do. I'm going to have to do it. It's happening. But because the goal is end of January for our budget stuff, like, I haven't even finished that part yet, so. But the point is, I couldn't have done that, and I didn't do it. For the first 20 years of owning a business, I grew time. I've been exhausted the whole time most of the time. But I grew myself to understand, like, how to follow a system that would work for us.

And anybody who owns a business who wants to grow a business, because I still struggle with the growth, because, like I said, I'm weaker at the sales side. Of things. We have to grow ourselves, but we also have to look at ourselves deeply and say, what can't I do? Curt, when you started out, don't you feel like people were telling you you could be a leader of everything, that if you did your job, if you learned enough, you'd be able to lead with authority, almost become like this different person? I don't believe in that anymore.

I think I've always had sort of a natural inclination to want to lead and, like, sort of just find myself putting myself there. I think what I would say is that this is one of those times where it's very simple, but it is not easy. We can give you the right answer pretty simply and lay it out for you. Just, you know, build your org chart, measure up against it, get your results you want, make sure that you're getting them, and if you don't, fire them and get new people. But that is. Is like every word of every sentence that is fraught with exhaustion. And from the place I'm at right now, that exhaustion is worth it. And that's sort of the encouragement I would give today is I would say you're going to change and become someone sharper, stronger, better than you currently are.

And I think that's a great thing. But you also have a proclivity, maybe is the word I'm looking for. You have this ability that comes naturally to you that you want to, like, give all you can fire wise to that, and you want to nurture it and grow that up, up. But at the end of the day, somebody is gonna have to be the one to say, it's not working anymore for this thing. And it could even be. And I think this is the part that hurts me the most. I've said this several times. There's a lot of different things that hurt me the most.

But someone who's been loyal and good to you and who's worked really, really hard, I've had to have that conversation with people and go, I know you work hard, but I think we both know that right now what you're doing with all your heart and that loyalty you've given, it's not actually producing what the business is. We're suffocating for need of, like, this company needs something different, or I need to hire a boss over you. I think that's another one that can hurt a lot, is like, I gotta hire someone over the top of you. And I know when I brought you in that we both thought you were gonna graduate to this, but you haven't had the opportunity to manage anyone yet. And this person has.

Yeah. I wanna say one thing, speaking to something you said a little while ago, that you always want to be a leader. You are a leader. I am a leader, but I want to, instead of becoming the leader that I was taught is like the prototype of what a leader should be, which would require me to change a lot of who I am as a human, I am going to really use that very, very important energy that we are given for the parts, like you just said, where I am going to be the best leader. I want to use my energy, which is very valuable, to cheer people on, to coach them up, to make their job EAS by putting in a system that didn't exist or a new software system that didn't exist, like get them what they need. But my job is never going to be the person who's going to day to day hold people accountable or do those morning huddles with them necessarily because those things drain me. And because I'm really aware of that now, I'm okay with being half of a leader compared to what I thought leadership is. And you know what?

There's another side of that coin. There's people who don't want to be a cheerleader. These people shouldn't need more.

I know people like that, they don't want to.

And I think that that's okay too.

Actually. Denise doesn't want to be a cheerleader. And that's why it kind of works with us, because she is the accountability person, I am the cheerleader.

And you need to just recognize that. What value do you bring to this process of getting the train on the tracks, defining the tracks, running it down the tracks, making sure it stays run down the track so it's got the fuel it needs and the power pedal, the metal. And that's where. One area where you and I might be a bit of an echo chamber is that we both don't like to say mean. And we want to keep, you know, coach people and cheer them on. And at the end of the day, like, that's one type of leader and you and I kind of echo on that. But. But there's other kinds of leaders too.

And you can be that kind of leader, but your blind spot will be different than my blind spot will be. And you know, be aware. That's to be aware of.

It's important that if you are the cheerleader, you still up front, like I still have an obligation to say to people you are going to be held accountable. The understanding it might not be from me. But that person who is going to hold everybody accountable has my full permission and authority to do so. And so I am going to be the person who tells them what is expected, who sets the pace of how things are going to go. But it doesn't mean that I'm going to be the one necessarily who's going to do like. And even as companies grow, you can't be the person who's going to do all of the things that happen in a leadership role. So you look sad.

No, I'm thinking about some things right now. Let me just say this. I've gotten to a point in my business that some pretty dark times, like, I've gotten some, like, really hard times. And I'm thinking about some of the things that you're saying right now. And I'm thinking to myself, that sucks. I hate that so much. And I've done so many things that it would have been so great to work at Corporate America, where I just work in a cubicle and they're like, just stamp this thing and send it on. And I'm like, how many stamping jobs are available? I think I want that job.

But as I think about how hard some things have been, I think about, like, sometimes I'll ask questions that I'm like, even surprised myself, that are so easy now. Now I was buying something from someone and the salesperson gave me a bull crap answer. And I think there's a time in my life when I've been like, well, I don't want to make this awkward, but I've been through enough awkward conversations now that it just like, my wife's like, dang, you really pressed on that. And I'm like, oh, really? Because it's not hard anymore. You've grown, I've grown, I've changed. And I'm truly coming from a place of curiosity. I asked a question, expecting an answer to help satiate my curiosity. You gave me, like, a bullcrap answer just to, like, get me to not worry about it, but I'm still worried about it.

So I dug and I dug and I dug and I dug. And I'm like, I don't know if my question's coming across clear, so I'm going to just try and say it a different way. And I think there's a time in my life when I never would have, like, pressed it that hard. Like, maybe it would have been twice, maybe three times. But, like, at this point, I'll do it a hundred times or I'll just tell you, like, it doesn't look like you're trying to answer the question. I have. Are you intentionally dodge. Like, I would say stuff like that now? No palms sweating.

It's just, like, because I've grown who I am, so. So I'm speaking to someone who might be looking at what you're saying. Well, Curt, you make it sound like being an entrepreneur really sucks. There are sucky times. But you know what else sucks is anything that strengthens you. It's resistance training. And so you get through this resistance and you get trained on the other side, you become someone you like better. And that's the part that I think about.

Man, I don't want to go do that ever again. But I sure do like a lot more about who I am now.

That resonates with me. I'm looking happy today. A lot of 2025, including the last quarter of 2025, I was suffering. I was really fighting for something that wasn't working. And why? Because I don't want to be a failure. I don't want to fail at what the plan is, right? And then within three weeks, something broke in me that allowed me to just go for what I wanted to do, right? Like starting the melody manager finally. And for instance, there were projects last quarter that were so important to me, they didn't get done. So I was just going to keep rolling them forward.

I just told those people, mostly, you didn't finish them. We're not moving on that right now. I need my energy elsewhere. And then I start to realize, oh, I am in control of all of this. I get to make decisions. And that's where the reset came from, is like, I realized I don't have to just have the status quo, which I've gotten used to. That's given me energy again. And what you're saying about there's seasons in business that are so hard, and a lot of times, it's our own resistance to change.

Change based on things that have happened in the past or fear. For me, it's always fear in some way. But once I hit past that and it's very painful, I'm like, why did I wait so long? And also, I needed that lesson.

That's a great spot to leave it. I really do. I think that understanding that fear can be a motivator, and it can be a season, and you're not broken. There's also a lot of power that comes. And those fear and those helpless moments, they do a lot of times, like, I can't see myself ever not feeling like this again. Again, but the truth of it is, is that you're not asking for it to be easier. You're asking for yourself to be better. And that's entrepreneurship in a nutshell.

It really is. And the one cool thing I think right now, Curt, is that we both have each other as business therapists for the times. I have to say, I don't want anybody listening to think that I have it all together, because I don't. I'm on day two of my reset, so it feels new and great, and it's only 40 days, so I can handle it. It. But there's going to be a probably another difficult season that I'm not going to anticipate. And having community is very helpful, and I'm appreciative to have you as my community and business therapist.

Same. And it was fun to fight with you a little bit today. It was a bit contrived, but it did come from a place. Like, my pushback really came from a place of, like, sort of looking at myself and going, but, Melody, I've tried that. And I know there's still muscles I need to strengthen in terms of, like, doing what I say I'm going to do do. But at the same time, there are a lot of things that I'll never be done growing, and you won't either. So we can stay in community.

You're probably doing a lot better than you think you are. We are very hard on ourselves as entrepreneurs, as humans, our kind of people tend to be hard on themselves. So let's give ourselves a little compassion this week.

Yeah. I love it. And I think for any of my employees that are listening, they're like, dang, my boss is, like, really wanting to start firing people on a rampage page. I think it's important to say, like, it's. The ability to say yes to something is a very powerful thing, but it only comes when you give yourself the power to say no to something. So I say all of this with the respect that, like, I choose my marriage because I have taken divorce off the table previously, and now I had to mentally say, like, no, no, no, if my wife did stuff to me or I, whatever, messed everything up. Like, divorce is an option, but I choose yes. And so because I choose yes, I can be so much more powerful in that.

And I think that's another big message from today.

And, Angela, you're fired. I just need to say that that is probably wasn't the best example to make, that I used people's names, but it was for example purposes. So thank you for listening, everybody. And thank you. Curt.

Yeah, thank you. I'll see you next week. Thanks everybody for joining us at the Sole Proprietor Podcast. It has been an absolute pleasure having these discussions with you. If you wouldn't mind taking just a few minutes to rate and review us wherever it is that you listen to podcasts, it would mean so much to us. We really do read each of these reviews, and it gives us the opportunity to get the word out to more people who could benefit from hearing about topics like this and so many others. If you want to engage with us at our website and maybe share some topics or ideas of other people that you'd like to hear on the podcast, feel free to go to soleproprietorpodcast.com and and share with us your thoughts and ideas about what we could do in the future to bring even more light into the world.