What actually makes someone successful as an entrepreneur, a student, or a leader?

According to Adrienne Garland, it is not the idea, the major, or the perfect plan. It is mindset, confidence, and the willingness to separate who you are from what you create.

In this episode of Campus Chronicles, Brooke sits down with Adrienne Garland, CEO of She Leads Media, NYU and Rice University faculty member, and longtime educator, to talk about what students are not being taught but desperately need to know.

Adrienne shares what she has observed after years of teaching entrepreneurship and business students across undergraduate and MBA programmes. From why so many students feel dehumanised by systems that treat them like numbers, to why women hesitate to speak up even when they are brilliant, this conversation is honest, validating, and empowering.

This episode is not about starting a company tomorrow. It is about learning how to think, how to trust yourself, and how to take the microphone when it is handed to you.

In this episode, you will hear:

• What actually makes a successful entrepreneur

• Why mindset matters more than your business idea

• How separating your identity from your work protects your confidence

• Why service-based thinking changes everything

• What Adrienne’s students say they are missing most

• Why women hesitate to speak up in classrooms

• The power of “take the mic” moments

• How anxiety shows up in university spaces

• Why curiosity matters more than certainty

• Three pieces of advice Adrienne gives every university student

If you have ever doubted yourself, hesitated to speak up, or felt pressure to have life figured out already, this episode will help you breathe and rethink what success actually means.

About Adrienne:

Adrienne Garland is the CEO of She Leads Media and a longtime educator teaching entrepreneurship, business planning, and customer relationship management at NYU and Rice University. She has held senior leadership roles in PR, marketing, and media, and now works with accomplished women entrepreneurs to build businesses with clear positioning, sustainable revenue, and meaningful visibility.

Find Adrienne:

Website: http://www.sheleadsmedia.com

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/sheleadsmedia

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/adriennegarland

Podcast: The She Leads Podcast

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Beyond excited to be here with a friend

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of mine, a personal friend and someone

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that I admire so much.

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We have Adrienne Garland.

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She is a professor at Rice University and

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NYU, and she's just a great human being.

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So we are delighted to have her today.

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Hello, Brooke.

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I am so happy to be here.

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Oh, I am so happy to have you because I

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know our conversation

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is going to be fabulous.

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But for those that don't know you aren't

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familiar, give us the

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little context of what you teach.

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Oh, yeah.

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So it is a topic that is

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near and dear to my heart.

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It's something that I am, I guess,

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constantly practicing.

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But I do teach entrepreneurship at NYU

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and the Tisch Center for Hospitality.

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So people that are specifically studying

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to go into the hotel industry, the travel

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industry, event management, and even some

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commercial real estate

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and real estate financing.

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So that's a lot of fun.

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And then I also teach a marketing, a

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customer relationship

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marketing management class.

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And at Rice, I do two things.

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I teach an entrepreneurship class called

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The New Venture, which is a five-week

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sprint entrepreneurial

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class, which is amazing.

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And then I am the faculty for the online

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MBA program, Global Field Experience.

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So we take MBA students to different

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countries, and they work with startup

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businesses in those countries on a

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particular consulting project.

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And it's sort of the joy of my life.

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I like that, the joy of your life.

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As far as entrepreneurship, what do you

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believe makes a successful entrepreneur

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that no one talks about?

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Oh, this is good.

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That's such a good question.

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It's funny because I was actually just

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speaking to somebody today that puts on

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events for startup entrepreneurs.

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And I said something that I thought was

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controversial, and he totally agreed with

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me, which was amazing.

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But I said, I think the X factor with

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entrepreneurs is actually themselves.

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So it's all about your mindset.

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And I think that the entrepreneurs that

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understand that, you know, maybe they

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were the ones that had the idea that

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started the business, that the business

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is bigger than they are, and it must be

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in order to continue

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to grow and to thrive.

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If you can separate yourself from the

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business, you're going to have a

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successful business.

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Mm-hmm.

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And separate, I think emotion can play

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such a big role for entrepreneurs because

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you're deeply and intimately connected to

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what you have created.

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Yeah, that's it.

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What are the differences you see in your

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entrepreneurship students versus, say,

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your hospitality students?

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Well, those two students

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are actually one and the same.

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So the hospitality tourism students, they

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are taking an entrepreneurship class,

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which is actually super interesting

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because so much of that industry is a

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service industry, right?

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So all of the students have this service

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type of mentality we were speaking about

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in class last night.

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So much of what they wanted to do as far

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as making an impact, they talked so much

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about creating an environment whether it

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was a restaurant or a hotel, where when

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people came into it that they felt

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comfortable and that they felt like it

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was home and that they

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could be who they are.

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And every single one of them said

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something to that effect,

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and I was so struck by that.

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And then I asked them,

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"Do you all feel like you want to create

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this because this doesn't exist for you?"

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And they all said, "Yeah."

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Like, they don't feel like there's any

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place where they can go that they don't

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feel like a number or that they don't

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feel like a marketing

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tactic or a revenue figure.

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They don't feel like people.

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They don't feel like

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they're treated like people.

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And so they want to create this.

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And I just thought that was so beautiful.

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It's incredibly

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beautiful and sadly dehumanizing.

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Yeah.

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Because I can see that in the way that

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even social media treats young people,

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it's all about clicks.

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It's all about capturing and garnering

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your attention, but never really treating

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you like you matter.

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It's what can you do for me?

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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The service-based mentality you're

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talking about, how do you teach that?

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What do you believe you instill to create

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a successful service-based mentality in a

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world that is, to our

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point, very self-centered?

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Yeah.

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I think entrepreneurship is a very

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interesting avenue to talk about that.

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So I think because these students are in

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this program, they've

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sort of self-selected.

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So they inherently--

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who they are, at least what they're

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studying now in their lives is very much

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about being hospitable,

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creating great experiences.

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But when they start talking about

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business and the business they want to

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create, it goes very much

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toward what they want to do.

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I want to create this.

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I want to do this.

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I, I, I.

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And there's nothing wrong with that.

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It's just a little bit of a shift.

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So when we start talking about, that's

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amazing that you want to create this, but

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who are you creating it for?

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Because it's not for you.

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It's for other people.

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So you need to now take yourself out of

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the entrepreneurial role and put yourself

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into the shoes of the customer.

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And so when we talk about, you know, how

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do you market, what's the messaging,

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what's the value proposition, I have to

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do a really good job-- and I don't know

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if I always do it-- but I have to do a

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really good job of explaining, don't tell

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me about all your bells and whistles and

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features and functionality.

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Tell me how I, as the customer, am going

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to feel after I've interacted with you.

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And so that helps them to connect with

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the customer and

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their point of view more.

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And once you do that, you can start to

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solve problems or create something that's

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unique that is truly from a customer

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point of view and not

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just from profitability.

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That's what I love about the way that you

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teach, is you do put yourself into the

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consumer's shoes because it's about the

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consumer's life experience and what they

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feel and what they go through and what

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troubles them and what keeps them awake

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at night as much as it is

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about what you want to create.

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Because I can create things all day long.

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If no one wants those things, then I'm

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going to be left feeling frustrated,

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doubting myself, feeling sad.

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And we see that a lot with entrepreneurs

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is your first business idea or subsequent

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business idea is not always going to be

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successful because we're not really

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choosing intentionally about how we want

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somebody to feel when they, A, come into

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contact with our product, and B, what do

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we want them to feel when they leave?

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We want them to feel better.

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We want them to feel

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relaxed, renewed, whatever it is.

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So I love how you

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experientially talk about this.

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That's one of the things I love about you

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and I always learn from you.

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And I think it's so important because

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we're seeing a huge global shift of

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people wanting to be entrepreneurs.

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That's a big thing now.

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Yeah.

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I think it's a big thing

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now because people are...

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I don't know why.

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I'm speaking from my own lens.

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So what I think...

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We like your lens here.

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Okay.

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What I think is that we have grown very

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tired of people telling us what to do,

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how to be, how to show up,

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how to speak, how to behave.

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And that worked for a long time.

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And we still need that in the world.

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But we also need change because change is

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the thing that is going

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to lead us to innovation.

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It's going to, I think,

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lead us back to our humanity.

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So if more people can step out and

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actually know how to create a company,

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then we'll create, I

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hope, better companies.

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And just to go off on a tangent a tiny

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bit, I don't think that the school system

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starting from when we're young does a

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good job of teaching people how to be

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independent thinkers.

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And it translates into they don't teach

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them that entrepreneurship is

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a very real option for them.

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The education system

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teaches us how to be a worker.

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And how to rely on other people.

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Yes.

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So if we could roll this all the way back

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to middle school or even elementary,

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instead of just repeating facts and

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figures, which we don't even need to do

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anymore because the internet holds all

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the facts and figures, but the more that

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we can teach people how to think about

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things, how to question things, how to

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maybe think about how to improve things

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or make them better,

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where the connections are.

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And how to bring their personality into

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it, which is so huge in the world of AI.

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So huge.

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If we can teach people how to do that,

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then I think we can cultivate stronger

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entrepreneurs that understand some of the

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things that we're

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00:10:42,750 --> 00:10:45,000

talking about earlier on.

263

00:10:46,166 --> 00:10:48,125

And the internet, it paints such a

264

00:10:48,125 --> 00:10:49,666

picture of I started a business.

265

00:10:50,291 --> 00:10:51,750

Now I'm raking in success.

266

00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,083

That is the influencer

267

00:10:53,083 --> 00:10:54,083

view of entrepreneurship.

268

00:10:54,958 --> 00:10:57,000

And with people being exposed to that

269

00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,458

view younger and younger, if your

270

00:10:59,458 --> 00:11:01,333

business doesn't take off instantly, if

271

00:11:01,333 --> 00:11:03,916

people don't instantly like what you do,

272

00:11:04,291 --> 00:11:05,625

so many people are inclined

273

00:11:05,625 --> 00:11:06,791

to feel like it's a failure.

274

00:11:07,708 --> 00:11:07,916

Yeah.

275

00:11:08,708 --> 00:11:12,750

And the trap with that is that people

276

00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:15,583

feel like their business is a failure.

277

00:11:15,791 --> 00:11:18,791

But because often that first business is

278

00:11:18,791 --> 00:11:21,125

very much about what, you know, who you

279

00:11:21,125 --> 00:11:22,291

are and what you want to do,

280

00:11:22,291 --> 00:11:23,875

maybe what your expertise is.

281

00:11:24,291 --> 00:11:26,708

When that thing fails, it's not just that

282

00:11:26,708 --> 00:11:27,750

the business failed.

283

00:11:28,166 --> 00:11:31,708

It's that you failed and then you're a

284

00:11:31,708 --> 00:11:34,500

failure as a person, as a human.

285

00:11:35,291 --> 00:11:38,125

And that becomes an identity and then it

286

00:11:38,125 --> 00:11:40,041

becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

287

00:11:40,416 --> 00:11:41,166

I'm a failure.

288

00:11:41,583 --> 00:11:43,041

No one ever is going to want me.

289

00:11:43,250 --> 00:11:44,000

People blah, blah, blah.

290

00:11:44,166 --> 00:11:44,791

It's terrible.

291

00:11:45,041 --> 00:11:46,458

It's a really bad loop

292

00:11:46,458 --> 00:11:47,875

that you can get into.

293

00:11:48,166 --> 00:11:50,458

And, you know, I'm not I'm talking about

294

00:11:50,458 --> 00:11:51,833

this like, oh, other people.

295

00:11:52,208 --> 00:11:53,750

I mean, I personally

296

00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:57,333

have experienced this.

297

00:11:57,375 --> 00:11:58,333

I've been there too.

298

00:11:58,916 --> 00:11:59,083

This thing failed.

299

00:11:59,250 --> 00:11:59,458

Yeah.

300

00:11:59,833 --> 00:12:02,625

And it hurts and it sticks with you.

301

00:12:03,416 --> 00:12:06,291

It's crashing because to your point about

302

00:12:06,291 --> 00:12:07,583

the identity, it can feel

303

00:12:07,583 --> 00:12:08,833

like an identity crisis.

304

00:12:09,458 --> 00:12:10,958

As if you were almost being rejected

305

00:12:10,958 --> 00:12:13,375

because I loved this thing so much, I

306

00:12:13,375 --> 00:12:16,000

believed in this thing, but you rejected

307

00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,833

it and it feels very much

308

00:12:17,833 --> 00:12:18,958

like a personal rejection.

309

00:12:19,291 --> 00:12:20,375

And in any way, in many

310

00:12:20,375 --> 00:12:22,000

ways, it's the same for the body.

311

00:12:22,791 --> 00:12:23,000

Yeah.

312

00:12:24,416 --> 00:12:26,000

It's 100 percent the same.

313

00:12:26,541 --> 00:12:29,375

And it goes back to the one of the early

314

00:12:29,375 --> 00:12:30,875

questions that you asked me, like what

315

00:12:30,875 --> 00:12:32,458

makes a successful entrepreneur?

316

00:12:33,125 --> 00:12:35,500

It's the entrepreneur that can separate

317

00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:38,041

the business from themselves.

318

00:12:38,791 --> 00:12:41,125

And so I hear so many people talking

319

00:12:41,125 --> 00:12:42,416

about, oh, you know,

320

00:12:42,416 --> 00:12:44,083

this business, it's my baby.

321

00:12:44,958 --> 00:12:47,666

And I have a very good friend who's a

322

00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:50,458

therapist and she actually has a thriving

323

00:12:50,458 --> 00:12:53,625

therapy business, which is so needed now.

324

00:12:54,041 --> 00:12:56,750

She has about 25 therapists on staff.

325

00:12:57,875 --> 00:13:02,041

But she told me very early on, don't talk

326

00:13:02,041 --> 00:13:05,041

about your business as your baby because

327

00:13:05,041 --> 00:13:09,166

you are not going to make sound strategic

328

00:13:09,166 --> 00:13:11,166

decisions for your kid.

329

00:13:12,333 --> 00:13:13,375

Oh, no, no.

330

00:13:13,375 --> 00:13:14,416

You're very biased when

331

00:13:14,416 --> 00:13:15,625

it comes to your child.

332

00:13:16,125 --> 00:13:16,291

Yes.

333

00:13:17,125 --> 00:13:18,083

And you have those

334

00:13:18,083 --> 00:13:19,833

rose colored glasses on.

335

00:13:20,416 --> 00:13:23,208

You cannot see, unfortunately, with

336

00:13:23,208 --> 00:13:24,250

everybody's product or

337

00:13:24,250 --> 00:13:25,541

business, there are deficits.

338

00:13:25,833 --> 00:13:26,958

There are things that could

339

00:13:26,958 --> 00:13:28,291

be cleaned up or improved.

340

00:13:28,791 --> 00:13:30,500

If you have those rose colored glasses on

341

00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:31,500

it, I have been there, too.

342

00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:32,541

You never see those.

343

00:13:33,375 --> 00:13:35,125

You defend and you reject

344

00:13:35,125 --> 00:13:36,291

anyone that says anything.

345

00:13:37,083 --> 00:13:37,666

Yeah, exactly.

346

00:13:38,541 --> 00:13:41,958

And I think that that is, you know, maybe

347

00:13:41,958 --> 00:13:44,625

that comes with starting a business and

348

00:13:44,625 --> 00:13:47,250

failing and moving on to the next thing.

349

00:13:47,250 --> 00:13:47,833

Maybe it just comes

350

00:13:47,833 --> 00:13:49,958

with like age and maturity.

351

00:13:50,833 --> 00:13:53,500

But I do think that it's super important.

352

00:13:53,916 --> 00:13:55,625

And I tell this to my students, like,

353

00:13:55,625 --> 00:13:57,000

start with your passion,

354

00:13:57,875 --> 00:13:58,916

you know, solve a problem.

355

00:13:59,125 --> 00:14:00,458

Like that's the most important thing.

356

00:14:00,458 --> 00:14:01,125

Like make sure that your

357

00:14:01,125 --> 00:14:03,625

business solves an actual problem.

358

00:14:03,625 --> 00:14:04,375

Test it.

359

00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:05,000

Make sure it does.

360

00:14:05,583 --> 00:14:07,958

But, you know, once you sort of get out

361

00:14:07,958 --> 00:14:11,250

there, you use your passion for fuel.

362

00:14:12,375 --> 00:14:14,375

Once you get out there, immediately

363

00:14:14,375 --> 00:14:16,750

separate, like separate

364

00:14:16,750 --> 00:14:19,083

yourself from the business.

365

00:14:20,375 --> 00:14:20,625

Yes.

366

00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:22,291

Mentally.

367

00:14:22,291 --> 00:14:23,375

And that's hard to do.

368

00:14:23,583 --> 00:14:25,583

It is admittedly very hard to do.

369

00:14:25,916 --> 00:14:26,250

Yeah.

370

00:14:26,541 --> 00:14:28,541

And I'm not good at it.

371

00:14:29,208 --> 00:14:33,000

I'm so good at giving advice and not so

372

00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:33,958

great at taking my own.

373

00:14:33,958 --> 00:14:35,500

I'm also the same way, so I understand.

374

00:14:38,083 --> 00:14:40,208

Speaking of your students, you observed

375

00:14:40,208 --> 00:14:42,875

something very interesting in your

376

00:14:42,875 --> 00:14:44,458

courses that you told me about.

377

00:14:44,833 --> 00:14:46,500

I want to dig into it.

378

00:14:47,166 --> 00:14:49,166

You observed that a lot of your female

379

00:14:49,166 --> 00:14:50,208

students are hesitant

380

00:14:50,208 --> 00:14:51,708

to answer questions.

381

00:14:52,666 --> 00:14:52,875

Yeah.

382

00:14:53,708 --> 00:14:54,125

Yeah.

383

00:14:54,125 --> 00:14:56,416

And I would love to recount the story

384

00:14:56,416 --> 00:14:58,333

because they're probably not listening.

385

00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:02,833

But so on one of these global field

386

00:15:02,833 --> 00:15:06,166

experiences that we went on, what we do

387

00:15:06,166 --> 00:15:09,541

at the end of every experience is we do a

388

00:15:09,541 --> 00:15:12,500

debrief where I have each group get up in

389

00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:13,833

front of everybody and

390

00:15:13,833 --> 00:15:16,291

talk about their experience.

391

00:15:16,291 --> 00:15:19,041

And not so much about the project itself,

392

00:15:19,041 --> 00:15:22,416

but how did the project change them as

393

00:15:22,416 --> 00:15:24,666

human beings and as MBA students?

394

00:15:25,375 --> 00:15:28,291

And there was this one group and I think

395

00:15:28,291 --> 00:15:30,333

that there were three or four women on

396

00:15:30,333 --> 00:15:33,291

the team and there were two men, but one

397

00:15:33,291 --> 00:15:35,250

person was not at the debrief.

398

00:15:35,750 --> 00:15:37,291

So it was one man and

399

00:15:37,291 --> 00:15:39,666

then four, maybe three women.

400

00:15:40,541 --> 00:15:43,208

And when I asked the group to come up, I

401

00:15:43,208 --> 00:15:46,041

handed the microphone to do the debrief

402

00:15:46,041 --> 00:15:51,291

to one particular woman who I knew would

403

00:15:51,291 --> 00:15:54,250

speak because all week she had been sort

404

00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:56,500

of vlogging and doing some social media

405

00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:58,625

things and she really has a

406

00:15:58,625 --> 00:15:59,958

very outgoing personality.

407

00:16:00,291 --> 00:16:01,416

So I handed her the mic.

408

00:16:02,375 --> 00:16:05,333

She pushed the mic away and handed it to

409

00:16:05,333 --> 00:16:07,541

the man on the team.

410

00:16:07,791 --> 00:16:10,041

And that sort of surprised me a little

411

00:16:10,041 --> 00:16:11,666

bit, but I went with it.

412

00:16:12,416 --> 00:16:16,208

And then he was sort of done speaking for

413

00:16:16,208 --> 00:16:19,291

a minute or so and he went to go hand the

414

00:16:19,291 --> 00:16:21,875

mic to another team member, another woman

415

00:16:21,875 --> 00:16:23,791

who is super brilliant.

416

00:16:24,833 --> 00:16:27,166

She just blew me away with her maturity

417

00:16:27,166 --> 00:16:28,416

and her intelligence.

418

00:16:29,458 --> 00:16:30,583

And she said, no, no,

419

00:16:30,583 --> 00:16:32,541

no, I don't want to talk.

420

00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:37,000

And so I don't know whether she spoke or

421

00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,583

someone else did, but as they were sort

422

00:16:39,583 --> 00:16:43,500

of walking off the stage area, I called

423

00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:44,958

them over and these are

424

00:16:44,958 --> 00:16:46,333

not undergraduate students.

425

00:16:46,708 --> 00:16:50,000

These are women that are, you know, late

426

00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,458

twenties, early thirties.

427

00:16:52,458 --> 00:16:56,000

And I said to them, if anyone ever hands

428

00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,583

you the mic, you take it.

429

00:16:59,791 --> 00:17:03,333

And I said, promise me, listen to that,

430

00:17:04,083 --> 00:17:05,666

hear that, receive it.

431

00:17:06,791 --> 00:17:07,750

Yeah, take it.

432

00:17:08,333 --> 00:17:09,458

And they were like, okay, okay.

433

00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:12,500

But it's not, you know, it's like in

434

00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:14,916

those little moments where

435

00:17:14,916 --> 00:17:16,375

you think it might not matter.

436

00:17:16,375 --> 00:17:18,333

I mean, they were in front of their MBA

437

00:17:18,333 --> 00:17:20,708

peers, you know, they weren't on a

438

00:17:20,708 --> 00:17:23,625

national stage or anything like that, but

439

00:17:23,625 --> 00:17:26,708

it doesn't matter in the small moments,

440

00:17:26,708 --> 00:17:30,083

in the big moments, take the mic, ladies.

441

00:17:31,791 --> 00:17:33,250

Yes, absolutely.

442

00:17:33,583 --> 00:17:35,541

And to your point about that, that

443

00:17:35,541 --> 00:17:39,000

hesitance to say something, to raise your

444

00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,500

hand, to share your insights.

445

00:17:41,416 --> 00:17:43,583

It is that self-fulfilling prophecy of

446

00:17:43,583 --> 00:17:45,916

there are so many brilliant,

447

00:17:45,916 --> 00:17:48,875

accomplished, talented, passionate,

448

00:17:48,875 --> 00:17:51,125

empathetic women with

449

00:17:51,125 --> 00:17:53,208

amazing perspectives.

450

00:17:54,083 --> 00:17:56,458

And those perspectives don't get heard

451

00:17:56,458 --> 00:17:57,875

unless you share them.

452

00:17:58,250 --> 00:18:00,083

And then they don't serve others.

453

00:18:00,083 --> 00:18:01,416

They don't help anyone

454

00:18:01,416 --> 00:18:02,500

if they stay inside you.

455

00:18:03,416 --> 00:18:03,583

Yeah.

456

00:18:03,708 --> 00:18:08,416

And often they're the insights that you

457

00:18:08,416 --> 00:18:11,083

hear and you say to yourself, that's

458

00:18:11,083 --> 00:18:12,500

exactly what I was thinking.

459

00:18:13,083 --> 00:18:13,250

Right?

460

00:18:13,833 --> 00:18:14,541

And if you hear that,

461

00:18:15,041 --> 00:18:16,625

then we're not validated.

462

00:18:17,041 --> 00:18:18,791

And again, it creates this like

463

00:18:18,791 --> 00:18:21,916

self-fulfilling loop that like, oh, maybe

464

00:18:21,916 --> 00:18:23,291

I shouldn't speak up because my

465

00:18:23,291 --> 00:18:26,291

perspective seems different, you know?

466

00:18:26,583 --> 00:18:27,500

But that's what we need.

467

00:18:27,708 --> 00:18:29,125

We need, and it's not

468

00:18:29,125 --> 00:18:31,625

different actually, you know?

469

00:18:32,291 --> 00:18:34,708

It's 51% of the population are thinking

470

00:18:34,708 --> 00:18:36,416

the exact same thing or

471

00:18:36,416 --> 00:18:37,708

they're wanting to hear from you.

472

00:18:38,375 --> 00:18:40,875

And when we're not speaking, we're not

473

00:18:40,875 --> 00:18:43,708

sort of showing everybody else that, wait

474

00:18:43,708 --> 00:18:45,833

a minute, this is the way, wait a minute,

475

00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,416

this is what I actually

476

00:18:47,416 --> 00:18:50,375

think, not what that guy said.

477

00:18:50,375 --> 00:18:53,666

And nothing against the men, they are

478

00:18:53,666 --> 00:18:55,041

brilliant and

479

00:18:55,041 --> 00:18:57,375

accomplished in everything too.

480

00:18:58,375 --> 00:19:00,541

But it's so one-sided.

481

00:19:00,541 --> 00:19:03,000

I just feel like the world is one-sided

482

00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,583

and it's not that

483

00:19:04,583 --> 00:19:06,541

men's opinions are wrong.

484

00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,208

They're a lot of times

485

00:19:08,208 --> 00:19:11,000

right, but it's unbalanced.

486

00:19:12,708 --> 00:19:14,083

Very unbalanced teeter totter.

487

00:19:14,791 --> 00:19:16,583

As a professor, do you

488

00:19:16,583 --> 00:19:18,208

wish more women spoke up?

489

00:19:18,916 --> 00:19:19,458

I do.

490

00:19:20,083 --> 00:19:20,500

I do.

491

00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:21,666

How do you think your classes would be

492

00:19:21,666 --> 00:19:22,416

different if they did?

493

00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:30,458

I think that there would be more

494

00:19:30,458 --> 00:19:34,875

connection and support.

495

00:19:36,416 --> 00:19:40,166

There are definitely women in my classes

496

00:19:40,166 --> 00:19:43,041

now this semester that speak up.

497

00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:44,208

I see,

498

00:19:45,458 --> 00:19:47,875

but it's not every woman.

499

00:19:49,083 --> 00:19:50,666

It's the women that are,

500

00:19:51,875 --> 00:19:55,583

they have had confidence in speaking up

501

00:19:55,583 --> 00:19:56,666

even if what they're

502

00:19:56,666 --> 00:19:59,083

saying might not even be great.

503

00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,125

They are the ones that have maybe played

504

00:20:03,125 --> 00:20:06,291

sports when they were younger or they

505

00:20:06,291 --> 00:20:11,583

were involved in some type of dance thing

506

00:20:11,583 --> 00:20:13,541

or something where they were traveling

507

00:20:13,541 --> 00:20:16,541

and having to get up in front of people.

508

00:20:17,583 --> 00:20:20,250

It's the one that almost like since they

509

00:20:20,250 --> 00:20:21,250

were young, they were

510

00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:23,041

putting in the reps, if you will.

511

00:20:23,333 --> 00:20:25,583

They were given the opportunity and so

512

00:20:25,583 --> 00:20:27,875

they're a lot more comfortable now.

513

00:20:29,125 --> 00:20:30,500

Those are the women that speak up in the

514

00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:32,916

class and then there are other women and

515

00:20:32,916 --> 00:20:34,791

sometimes it's cultural because we have

516

00:20:34,791 --> 00:20:38,500

students at NYU and at Rice, more at NYU

517

00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:39,875

from all over the world.

518

00:20:40,541 --> 00:20:45,000

Also you see some things culturally where

519

00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,208

women are not

520

00:20:47,208 --> 00:20:49,666

encouraged to speak up at all.

521

00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,000

That really bothers me and then it's

522

00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,875

almost a double bind because in some

523

00:20:57,875 --> 00:20:59,708

cultures when you call

524

00:20:59,708 --> 00:21:02,500

on people to speak up,

525

00:21:03,541 --> 00:21:09,041

it puts a spotlight on them that is, it's

526

00:21:09,041 --> 00:21:11,541

almost like you're not that you're, it's

527

00:21:11,541 --> 00:21:12,541

like you're calling them

528

00:21:12,541 --> 00:21:14,291

out for doing something wrong.

529

00:21:15,333 --> 00:21:18,833

So it's almost a no win situation.

530

00:21:18,833 --> 00:21:21,750

If they don't speak up, that's an issue.

531

00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:22,625

But then if you call on

532

00:21:22,625 --> 00:21:24,708

them, then that's an issue.

533

00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:26,875

So that's a very

534

00:21:26,875 --> 00:21:28,666

difficult thing to contend with.

535

00:21:29,666 --> 00:21:31,791

When a woman does speak up in your

536

00:21:31,791 --> 00:21:34,500

course, what do you want her to know

537

00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:36,041

about what's going through your head?

538

00:21:36,250 --> 00:21:38,041

Because I think that's the concern that

539

00:21:38,041 --> 00:21:40,333

so many women have is what if I stumble?

540

00:21:40,708 --> 00:21:41,916

What if it doesn't come out right?

541

00:21:42,375 --> 00:21:43,625

What if I look stupid?

542

00:21:44,250 --> 00:21:45,416

What do you want them to know about what

543

00:21:45,416 --> 00:21:46,333

the professor thinks?

544

00:21:50,083 --> 00:21:51,458

That's a really good question.

545

00:21:52,375 --> 00:21:57,875

I try, I attempt that when they are

546

00:21:57,875 --> 00:22:02,958

speaking that I know they look over at me

547

00:22:02,958 --> 00:22:07,166

and I'm constantly giving them assurance

548

00:22:07,166 --> 00:22:11,375

that what they're saying is right on.

549

00:22:11,833 --> 00:22:12,541

I don't even care what

550

00:22:12,541 --> 00:22:13,750

they're saying sometimes.

551

00:22:14,875 --> 00:22:17,625

I nod, they look at me,

552

00:22:17,625 --> 00:22:18,666

I give them a thumbs up.

553

00:22:19,041 --> 00:22:21,875

I say, keep going, good.

554

00:22:22,458 --> 00:22:23,416

I give them the eyes.

555

00:22:25,083 --> 00:22:27,666

I think that that makes them feel better.

556

00:22:29,125 --> 00:22:35,125

I'll share one other thing that there's a

557

00:22:35,125 --> 00:22:38,125

lot of anxiety in the

558

00:22:38,125 --> 00:22:40,916

students now, not just women.

559

00:22:40,916 --> 00:22:42,000

It's across the board

560

00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,291

and they share it with me.

561

00:22:43,291 --> 00:22:44,791

They might not share it in class, but

562

00:22:44,791 --> 00:22:47,416

they share it with me privately or in an

563

00:22:47,416 --> 00:22:50,166

email or through maybe like I give people

564

00:22:50,166 --> 00:22:52,000

a lot of assignments where they have to

565

00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,416

reflect on something.

566

00:22:54,708 --> 00:22:55,583

So it comes up.

567

00:22:57,958 --> 00:23:00,541

This one particular student, she's a

568

00:23:00,541 --> 00:23:03,500

graduate student and she's a New Yorker

569

00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:05,916

through and through, doesn't have a

570

00:23:05,916 --> 00:23:07,833

problem, speaking her mind.

571

00:23:07,833 --> 00:23:08,875

I've had really amazing

572

00:23:08,875 --> 00:23:10,000

conversations with her.

573

00:23:10,458 --> 00:23:14,583

To me, I'm like, this woman is amazing.

574

00:23:16,041 --> 00:23:16,791

She's just incredible.

575

00:23:17,791 --> 00:23:22,375

Well, she definitely suffers from anxiety

576

00:23:22,375 --> 00:23:25,000

and I have people throughout my classes

577

00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,375

get up and speak in front of

578

00:23:26,375 --> 00:23:28,125

the class to build that muscle.

579

00:23:28,666 --> 00:23:31,875

And she did a final presentation for

580

00:23:31,875 --> 00:23:33,791

something that, you know, a business

581

00:23:33,791 --> 00:23:34,791

that's on her heart.

582

00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,458

That's really interesting.

583

00:23:37,458 --> 00:23:39,541

And she told me in the final reflection

584

00:23:39,541 --> 00:23:43,791

that she thought that she was going to be

585

00:23:43,791 --> 00:23:48,125

judged and that she was so happy that I

586

00:23:48,125 --> 00:23:50,500

create an environment throughout the

587

00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:52,500

class that feels safe.

588

00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:57,208

Safe for wild ideas, safe for, you know,

589

00:23:57,583 --> 00:23:59,208

personal things that you

590

00:23:59,208 --> 00:24:01,000

want to turn into a business.

591

00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,041

Like I welcome that.

592

00:24:02,250 --> 00:24:05,375

And when people sit in some of the things

593

00:24:05,375 --> 00:24:06,708

that the students want to

594

00:24:06,708 --> 00:24:08,708

create are crazy, you know?

595

00:24:09,375 --> 00:24:11,083

And I'm like, oh my gosh, tell me more

596

00:24:11,083 --> 00:24:13,875

about that because I don't think that

597

00:24:13,875 --> 00:24:15,333

there's a lot of encouragement.

598

00:24:15,833 --> 00:24:16,708

I think there's a lot of

599

00:24:16,708 --> 00:24:18,250

like, oh, you can't do that.

600

00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:19,833

Oh, have you thought about that?

601

00:24:19,875 --> 00:24:21,791

Oh, that doesn't sound like it's going to

602

00:24:21,791 --> 00:24:23,666

make money, you know?

603

00:24:23,666 --> 00:24:25,833

And I want to encourage them that like,

604

00:24:25,833 --> 00:24:30,000

okay, maybe it won't fly, but you'll

605

00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,166

never know unless you attempt it, unless

606

00:24:33,166 --> 00:24:35,333

you try, unless you at the very least

607

00:24:35,333 --> 00:24:37,041

explored in your mind.

608

00:24:37,541 --> 00:24:40,916

So she told me that she was so just

609

00:24:40,916 --> 00:24:44,500

thankful that I created this environment

610

00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:46,250

that allowed her to shine.

611

00:24:46,583 --> 00:24:48,666

And she was so proud of the fact that she

612

00:24:48,666 --> 00:24:50,125

was able to get up in front of the whole

613

00:24:50,125 --> 00:24:52,541

entire class and discuss her quote

614

00:24:52,541 --> 00:24:53,833

unquote crazy idea,

615

00:24:53,833 --> 00:24:55,083

which wasn't even that crazy.

616

00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,875

And it's stuff like that, that makes me

617

00:24:59,875 --> 00:25:01,750

know that I'm doing the right thing.

618

00:25:03,041 --> 00:25:04,208

That has to be so rewarding.

619

00:25:04,958 --> 00:25:05,416

It is.

620

00:25:06,541 --> 00:25:06,833

It is.

621

00:25:07,083 --> 00:25:08,916

I have a hard question for you.

622

00:25:09,458 --> 00:25:10,958

Yeah, this is my signature question.

623

00:25:11,541 --> 00:25:15,041

So if you have three pieces of advice for

624

00:25:15,041 --> 00:25:16,916

university age students,

625

00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,041

they can be about anything.

626

00:25:19,791 --> 00:25:20,375

What would those

627

00:25:20,375 --> 00:25:22,125

three pieces of advice be?

628

00:25:23,458 --> 00:25:28,500

Number one, it's so important to really

629

00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:29,708

get to know yourself.

630

00:25:30,833 --> 00:25:33,666

I think more work has got to be done on

631

00:25:33,666 --> 00:25:37,500

sort of getting quiet and listening to

632

00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:41,500

yourself and making sure that you're

633

00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:43,583

being very kind to yourself.

634

00:25:44,375 --> 00:25:46,125

You need to love yourself.

635

00:25:46,458 --> 00:25:48,666

And I know how hard that can be for so

636

00:25:48,666 --> 00:25:51,500

many people when we feel anxiety, when we

637

00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:54,125

feel, you know, like everybody else in

638

00:25:54,125 --> 00:25:55,375

the world is killing it.

639

00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:57,750

And we're over here, you know, with our

640

00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:59,291

cat and no friends or

641

00:25:59,291 --> 00:26:00,500

something like that.

642

00:26:01,125 --> 00:26:03,958

But there are people that

643

00:26:03,958 --> 00:26:05,833

want to connect with you.

644

00:26:05,833 --> 00:26:08,416

And so if you connect with yourself first

645

00:26:08,416 --> 00:26:13,166

and you tell yourself that you're worthy,

646

00:26:13,958 --> 00:26:14,916

you know, I think that

647

00:26:14,916 --> 00:26:18,416

everything can bloom from there.

648

00:26:19,083 --> 00:26:23,125

So advice, you know, however you can,

649

00:26:23,666 --> 00:26:25,625

even if maybe at first you don't believe

650

00:26:25,625 --> 00:26:30,041

it, like really do a lot of work to find

651

00:26:30,041 --> 00:26:32,416

something that you truly love about

652

00:26:32,416 --> 00:26:33,500

yourself that is

653

00:26:34,125 --> 00:26:36,083

unique and lean into that.

654

00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:40,041

The second thing I would say is stop

655

00:26:40,041 --> 00:26:43,500

listening to everybody else to tell you

656

00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:44,708

what to do with your life.

657

00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:46,083

They don't know.

658

00:26:47,958 --> 00:26:48,541

They don't know.

659

00:26:49,875 --> 00:26:51,541

You know, you could take advice, you can

660

00:26:51,541 --> 00:26:53,125

talk to them, you could talk it out and

661

00:26:53,125 --> 00:26:56,375

all of that, but don't let anybody shame

662

00:26:56,375 --> 00:26:59,250

you for something that might be in your

663

00:26:59,250 --> 00:27:01,583

heart, you know, at

664

00:27:01,583 --> 00:27:03,875

least attempt it or try it.

665

00:27:03,875 --> 00:27:05,666

I love that a little bit.

666

00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:06,250

Yeah.

667

00:27:06,958 --> 00:27:07,166

Right?

668

00:27:07,625 --> 00:27:08,666

Because that's what,

669

00:27:09,083 --> 00:27:11,166

that's like why we're here.

670

00:27:11,166 --> 00:27:13,000

We're not here to do the

671

00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,791

same thing as our parents.

672

00:27:14,833 --> 00:27:17,458

We're not here to do, to be the same.

673

00:27:18,583 --> 00:27:21,000

It's like evolution, right?

674

00:27:21,625 --> 00:27:24,041

Like diversity keeps

675

00:27:24,041 --> 00:27:27,416

the planet alive, right?

676

00:27:27,708 --> 00:27:28,791

If everything was same,

677

00:27:28,791 --> 00:27:31,291

same, it would be so boring.

678

00:27:31,625 --> 00:27:33,208

That is such a brilliant point.

679

00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:34,541

It really is.

680

00:27:34,541 --> 00:27:35,291

And it's so true.

681

00:27:36,708 --> 00:27:39,166

And then I think it's so hard, university

682

00:27:39,166 --> 00:27:40,666

students, I talk about this with my

683

00:27:40,666 --> 00:27:41,458

friends all the time.

684

00:27:41,875 --> 00:27:44,250

I just turned 55 the other day.

685

00:27:45,250 --> 00:27:45,458

Congratulations.

686

00:27:46,041 --> 00:27:46,625

Oh, thank you.

687

00:27:47,041 --> 00:27:47,750

And I'm like, I want to

688

00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:48,791

go back to school now.

689

00:27:49,875 --> 00:27:51,625

You'd like, I want to go to undergrad now

690

00:27:51,625 --> 00:27:55,791

because it, it's like my, I'm

691

00:27:55,791 --> 00:27:57,833

so curious about everything.

692

00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:02,041

And so when you're young, I think there's

693

00:28:02,041 --> 00:28:04,416

so much of like, you're so uncertain

694

00:28:04,416 --> 00:28:06,500

about yourself that it

695

00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:08,458

obscures the learning.

696

00:28:09,708 --> 00:28:12,791

And so like, if there's any way to, to

697

00:28:12,791 --> 00:28:16,916

focus on learning something like that you

698

00:28:16,916 --> 00:28:19,833

really love and like, don't just, don't

699

00:28:19,833 --> 00:28:23,083

just phone it in, like, like tap into the

700

00:28:23,083 --> 00:28:27,166

learning that's happening that, that adds

701

00:28:27,166 --> 00:28:28,333

richness to your life.

702

00:28:28,333 --> 00:28:29,333

It just does.

703

00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,625

Being all of you really does

704

00:28:33,625 --> 00:28:35,083

benefit the people around you.

705

00:28:35,625 --> 00:28:36,541

And that's what I hear

706

00:28:36,541 --> 00:28:37,666

you on that third point.

707

00:28:37,958 --> 00:28:38,541

And you're right.

708

00:28:39,333 --> 00:28:41,166

Leading with curiosity is important, but

709

00:28:41,166 --> 00:28:42,000

it's hard to do when

710

00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:42,958

you're wrapped up in you.

711

00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:44,166

Yeah.

712

00:28:44,708 --> 00:28:45,375

Oh my goodness.

713

00:28:46,166 --> 00:28:48,000

Well, if people want to follow you on

714

00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,416

social media, they want to

715

00:28:49,416 --> 00:28:51,750

get some more wisdom from you.

716

00:28:52,208 --> 00:28:52,791

Where do they go?

717

00:28:53,666 --> 00:28:54,500

Thank you so much.

718

00:28:55,291 --> 00:28:58,500

They can go to sheleadsmedia.com and I

719

00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:00,208

also have a podcast.

720

00:29:00,791 --> 00:29:02,833

So if you want to hear about successful

721

00:29:02,833 --> 00:29:05,083

women entrepreneurs, people that are

722

00:29:05,083 --> 00:29:06,166

doing amazing things.

723

00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:08,500

My podcast is the she leads podcast

724

00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:10,416

and you should definitely listen.

725

00:29:10,750 --> 00:29:12,041

You are going to grow.

726

00:29:12,208 --> 00:29:15,041

Here's so many perspectives and so many

727

00:29:15,041 --> 00:29:16,833

amazing women are going to

728

00:29:16,833 --> 00:29:17,916

be handed the microphone.

729

00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:19,208

Yes.

730

00:29:19,625 --> 00:29:21,416

So thank you for creating a space.

731

00:29:23,333 --> 00:29:23,708

Thank you.

732

00:29:23,958 --> 00:29:25,541

Thank you for creating this space.

733

00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:26,208

This is amazing.

734

00:29:26,541 --> 00:29:28,000

Thank you for coming on and just sharing

735

00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,041

your wisdom and your insights with me.

736

00:29:30,625 --> 00:29:32,333

I appreciate it so much.

737

00:29:32,916 --> 00:29:33,875

This was wonderful.

738

00:29:34,291 --> 00:29:34,916

And thank you.

739

00:29:34,916 --> 00:29:36,708

Thank you for hosting this.

740

00:29:36,708 --> 00:29:38,041

You do an incredible job.

741

00:29:38,666 --> 00:29:39,125

Oh my goodness.

742

00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:41,666

Well thank you and thank you everyone for

743

00:29:41,666 --> 00:29:43,541

listening to another episode of the

744

00:29:43,541 --> 00:29:45,083

campus chronicles podcast.

745

00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:50,875

So if today's episode gave you life

746

00:29:50,875 --> 00:29:53,750

perspective or just a much needed moment

747

00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:56,333

to breathe in a busy world, I don't want

748

00:29:56,333 --> 00:29:57,500

you to keep it to yourself.

749

00:29:58,250 --> 00:29:58,916

Share it.

750

00:29:58,916 --> 00:29:59,458

Tag us.

751

00:29:59,750 --> 00:30:00,916

Please send it to a

752

00:30:00,916 --> 00:30:02,541

friend who needs to hear it.

753

00:30:03,416 --> 00:30:04,500

If you're not on our

754

00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:06,541

newsletter yet, what are you doing?

755

00:30:07,208 --> 00:30:08,791

Go to campus chronicles pod

756

00:30:08,791 --> 00:30:10,625

dot com and join the crew.

757

00:30:11,208 --> 00:30:13,500

We have all the behind the scenes things,

758

00:30:13,875 --> 00:30:16,375

unfiltered thoughts from me and the team,

759

00:30:16,958 --> 00:30:19,750

bonus resources and insider only invites

760

00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:22,541

to events, giveaways and things that we

761

00:30:22,541 --> 00:30:24,666

really don't post anywhere else.

762

00:30:25,375 --> 00:30:27,041

I promise I'm not going to spam you.

763

00:30:27,708 --> 00:30:28,708

It's just the good stuff

764

00:30:28,708 --> 00:30:29,958

straight to your inbox.

765

00:30:30,875 --> 00:30:32,750

Learning and university is wild enough.

766

00:30:33,125 --> 00:30:33,875

You don't need to

767

00:30:33,875 --> 00:30:35,208

miss out on what matters.

768

00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,333

Sign up now and let's make this next

769

00:30:38,333 --> 00:30:40,000

semester the one that you stop

770

00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,791

surviving and start thriving.

771

00:30:43,791 --> 00:30:47,166

Until next time, stay bold, stay curious,

772

00:30:47,166 --> 00:30:48,666

keep writing your own chapter.

773

00:30:49,416 --> 00:30:51,208

This is campus chronicles.