On this episode Mark talks with Jonathan Hopkin, author of 'Anti-System Politics: The Crisis of Market Liberalism in Rich Democracies.' Unlike most analyses of populism and the breakdown of party systems, Hopkin argues that the way countries' have governed their markets in the last 30 years has shaped not just the rise of populism, but a form of politics opposed to market liberalism that spans the ideological spectrum.  You can read or download a transcript of this episode here: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/12E8x0QEsi0PR7RbUPs9ysl7DXrthCEht/view?usp=sharing] You can learn more about and purchase John Hopkin's book here: [https://www.amazon.com/Anti-System-Politics-Crisis-Liberalism-Democracies/dp/0190699760]