Unlocking Life's Mysteries: Betty Kovacs Shares The Miracle of Death with Betty Kovacs

In this enlightening episode of "Curiously Wise," host Laurin Wittig engages in a profound conversation with Betty Kovacs, author of the book "The Miracle of Death: There is Nothing but Life." Betty, with her extensive background in literature and symbolism, explores the concept of death and the afterlife based on her personal experiences and visions following the tragic loss of her son. She challenges the notion of death, emphasizing that consciousness is eternal and that many individuals are crossing over to communicate with those on the earthly plane. The discussion covers diverse topics including healing, consciousness, the Earth's ability to heal itself, embracing new realities through imagination, and gracefully navigating the journey of aging. Tune in to this thought-provoking episode filled with wisdom and gratitude.

In this episode we get curious about:

• Betty's book "The Miracle of Death: There is Nothing but Life"
• Explores the concept of death and the afterlife.
• Healing, consciousness, and the Earth, near-death experiences, and the Earth's ability to heal itself.
• The power of imagination, integrating the brain's different aspects, and the role of the heart in embracing higher frequencies.
• The art of aging gracefully, maintaining curiosity, and finding gratitude in difficult experiences.

To learn more about our guest:

Betty J. Kovacs, PhD earned her doctorate from the University of California, Irvine, in Comparative Literature and Theory of Symbolic/Mythic Language.She taught Literature, Writing, and Symbolic/Mythic Language for twenty-five years.She served many years as Chair and Program Chair on the Board of Directors of the Jung Society of Claremont in California and sits on the Academic Advisory Board of Forever Family Foundation.Dr. Kovacs is author of Merchants of Light: The Consciousness That Is Changing theWorld, winner of the Nautilus Silver Book Award and the Scientific & Medical Network 2019 Book Prize.She has also written The Miracle of Death: There Is Nothing But Life.

Gift for you from Betty: Sign up for her newsletter on her website and receive a free chapter of Merchants of Light.

If you love the wisdom Betty brings to conversations, you might want to listen to her previous appearance on Curiously Wise titled: Reclaiming the Divine Feminine Energy from History.

Website: The Kamlak Center

FB: The Kamlak Center Videos

Recommended Book(s) (contain affiliate links):

The Miracle of Death: There is Nothing But Life by Betty Kovacs

Dying to be Me by Anita Moorjani

Recommended Videos by Anthony Chene on YouTube.

Credits

Audio Engineer: Sam Wittig

Music: Where the Light Is by Lemon Music Studio

Photography & Design: Asha McLaughlin/Tej Art

To learn more about Laurin Wittig and her work: HeartLightJoy.com

Copyright 2024 Laurin Wittig

Interview Episode 2 with Betty Kovacs

And so the right brain has a relationship with the higher brain centers and also the heart, which we now know is the fifth brain component. It gives more frequencies to the brain that we call the brain. Usually then the brain gives to the heart, but the heart, with the right brain, the heart opens. It's that great portal to the vastness of the universe of [00:01:00] spirit.

Laurin: Hello friends and welcome back to Curiously Wise. I'm Laurin Wittig, your host, and I have today Betty Kovacs with me, who has been here once before to talk about her book, merchants of Light. This time we're gonna talk about her other book and I have to say it's blown my mind. So I know this is gonna be a great conversation and it's, it's gonna be deeply meaningful for anybody who's ready to hear it.

She taught literature writing and symbolic mythic language for 25 years. [00:02:00] She served many years as chair and program chair on the board of directors of the Yung Society of Claremont in California, and sits on the Academic Advisory Board of Forever Family Foundation. Dr. Covax is author of Merchants of Light, the Consciousness that is Changing the World Winner of the Nautilus Silver Book Award and the Scientific and Medical Network 2019 Book Prize.

And she has also written The Miracle of Death. There is nothing but life. And this is the book we're gonna talk about today. So welcome Betty. I'm happy to have you back.

Betty: Thank you so much. All

Laurin: right. So tell us a little bit about how this book

came to be.

Betty: How the miracle of Death came to be. Yes, yes.

They could study nothing but matter, and that's how we ended up with this horrible worldview. Of course, I had the religious story as well, but I had no experience, so I didn't know, and I couldn't believe without some kind of experience or evidence. So I really. I think my life was a journey to try to discover, is there anything else?

Is there only matter? And are we really just a fluke of nature with no meaning, no purpose, and when it we're dead, we're dead? What happens? All of that love that we experienced when we're here. So it didn't make sense. So the easiest thing to do was to go to school and see if I could learn there. But there I got more of the scientific perspective.

I still feared that when we're dead, we'll never see each other again. It's all over. Because that was the prevalent belief. And in the university, if you even suggested anything else, they considered you totally unconscious. But I finished my doctorate and then I, I said to my husband, you know, I am through for right now with this academic business, and I am going to go to South America with a couple of shamans and see if any, you know, see if I can discover anything.

So things began to happen, but I still wasn't sure about that. And then our son, our only child was killed in a car accident at 20 years old, and he was killed. My mother had been killed by a car one year before. And the interesting thing was when they were going to take him off the life support.

And my husband had not been interested really in these kinds of things, but he very much respected me and tolerated me. You might say, with respect.

Laurin: I have a husband just like that. I'm waiting.

Betty: Many, many of us do. And but he had a vision about two weeks before Ishy was killed and he saw the accident, he saw the car on the side of the freeway.

He saw Peachy's body superposed on it, and he knew he was dead because there were two different dimensions. Hmm. And then he said, heard himself say, oh, that's right Kristi, it's almost time for you to do that. And then that shocked him so badly. And then PTI said, that's right, dad. I will be out of the house for a little while.

And if they hadn't been there and cut him out of the car, we would've gotten a message that he was dead. Mm-hmm. But instead it was that he'd had an accident and they were in surgery at the moment, so we went to the hospital. But and I had had two years of dreams of his death. Mm-hmm. But I interpreted symbolically.

Mm-hmm. And Peach was able to, first of all, he wanted us to know that he's okay, he's alive. Mm-hmm. And he was interested in this kind of thing, by the way. Yeah. And now his father was going through this massive initiation. Mm-hmm. And in fact, after the first vision, my husband sat up on the side of the bed and he said, I had no idea what you were talking about.

Mm-hmm. I will never look at the earth in the same way again. And he didn't. I had little, you might say relapses along the way, having Right. Love that too. I mean, the university or the, just the worldview can do us in and, but not with wan. I mean, he had it. He was so, and it was, these were powerful visions.

Mm-hmm. But you could have named him nothing else. They are of the same soul. And so, When I came home, I, I mentioned to my son, I thought, I'll just see what he says. He didn't even stop. He was painting and he said, huh, sounds about right. And I thought, okay, I'm not gonna go. And then I said to Ishk and he said the same thing.

And I thought, what's going on here? Hmm. I mean, it didn't even, it was like in another state, you know? Mm-hmm. This is long answer to why I wrote the

book. No, it's, I mean, it's the story that, that unfolds.

Yeah. It's some, it is. And how I know because I experienced it that there is no death. And as I say in the cover of the book, there is nothing but life.

And he would see that sometimes he and Peachy were one. They were born as one person, sometimes his two. And when they were one person, PTI didn't have to tell him what was going on. But when they were two, then PTI explained, you know, and it was just so powerful. And for him to, to realize that. Yeah. Yeah.

What should I read next? It was a powerful experience for us. Yeah. But he, she would, okay, so then we knew there, there is no death. I mean, he was so clear and he, there was an event in my life that I had never told either one of them, but it wasn't that important how Peachy chose that event. And he told my husband inhibition and that I know he did it for me.

He wanted me to know that, you know, that here's something, here's the kind of proof. But there were so many things and. So once we were, we knew there's no death. Then he said, and now we have to look at what's happening in the world, and the next years are going to be very, very difficult for the earth.

And then the Roman Church severely censored the very experience, the experience of the other world. They were the heretics, the mystics were the heretics. Yeah. Kill 'em out. Get rid of them, whatever. And then when science started, then they censored science that they can only study matter. It's a kind of ironic thing, the church really didn't want any business of going inward.

No. That we can do anything on our own. But they didn't quite realize they're gonna destroy the whole spirit world.

Laurin: No. That would be way outta control for them.

We are so vast and have such potential, which now quantum physicists are learning. So I think, why did I write that book? It's because I'd spent my life searching for an answer about death and about. Meaning or purpose. And with our son's death and our over two years of being very, very much with him in powerful information, visions, long visions sometimes, which I, we recorded everything as soon as we were through the vision Smart.

And I used the those recordings to write the book. So so that the book would be accurate. And I didn't want anyone to publish it. It would try to make it bigger than it was. It was what it was. And that healed me in terms of death. I, I know. And I think that there are many people on the earth think of all the near death experiencers Oh yeah.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny cuz I've never been afraid of, of death.

Only of the pain of dying.

Betty: Well, that's, yes, that's, yes.

Laurin: So I, I figured that that's probably legit.

Betty: I think it is. And you know, I think a lot about that. I'm seeing now that I'm old, I see a lot of old people are friends dying, and some of them just have to go through excruciating pain. This is what I think, I think we are creators, as our ancestors told us, we are divine.

Mm-hmm. With different natural systems, and that we will not have to suffer like that when we die. Yeah. I don't think that, I mean, what creator wants to do that? No. I think that we have to co-create together for the whole world. I do think that because people suffer, it's just, and what do they, what could possibly be valuable in that?

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think probably it's based on fear, like the fear of dying and you're resisting the death, and so that. Drags it out and creates problems because you're not just letting nature take its course, but you're, that's my, my feeling about it. I'm an in, I'm an intuitive healer, so I work with a lot of people who are in pain and it's almost always emotional.

Betty: Well, I think that's true. And yet there was just the death of a woman who had spent her life working with the things, and she knew mm-hmm. That death exists. She had had her own experiences, and when she realized she was going to die, she wanted, she gave herself over to it.

Yeah. And yet she couldn't die.

Laurin: Really?

Betty: Yeah. It just kept going on and on. It near, it nearly killed her family to see her wire her, you know? Yeah. She was so willing. So I don't, yeah, I don't know.

Laurin: I, I don't know either. It's just a, you know, the, the feeling that I have, but I don't. I don't have conscious knowledge of it.

Let me, well,

Betty: I think you're absolutely right though that that the emotion in our being willing to let go plays a huge role. Yeah, I do believe that. Yeah.

You know that, that stuff. Yes. Both of them have been back to visit me since they passed.

Betty: Oh, so good. So there's no question in your mind.

Laurin: Yeah. No, no.

Betty: And that's so important because to live with that, not knowing and is there any meaning at all. Mm-hmm. And we love so powerfully and, and to believe that that's over forever.

Yeah. No, it's just it's so important I think. And it, I think right now on the earth, we've got to know that. We have got to know that for what we're facing and, and I think that so many people are going to the other side and coming back and telling us, don't worry about it. Yeah. Don't worry about death itself, for sure.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. That's for those listening, I can recommend Anita more Johnny's book about dying and coming back. It's,

Betty: and being healed of cancer. I mean that

she's really powerful.

Betty: Very impressive. And you know, Anthony Chen, c h e n e French film producer has done so many and you can get him on YouTube. Yeah. And there's just so many stories that of people who have died in Quebec. Yeah. In the uk they don't call it near death. They say, no, it's actual death. Mm-hmm. They're straight liner, actual death.

And they have really trained psychologists to work with the patients and so on, and doctors. So, yeah, I think we're learning that. I mean, but her book and Anthony Chin's film, just, there was one that so impressed me. It was a, a woman who was very, very athletic, very young, very athletic, and she was in an automobile accident.

She said, I saw them do it and I knew it would live. I mean, that to me is so exciting and, and inspiring, isn't it? Oh yeah. Yeah. We can, people can work through us and do miraculous things. Right. Of course, those doctors had to have skill.

Laurin: Yes. In order. Yeah. But yeah, that there is more than just the physical humans.

Y you know, in some ways I, I know that she's con there's a consciousness there. Mm-hmm. But I don't think of it that way cuz that's not the way, you know, our culture presents the earth. Exactly. It's exactly this thing to be used and abused, you know. So when you read that, what did, what, what did that mean to you? What did it.

That we, many, many on the earth are dreaming a dream to heal ourselves and the earth because we're so in partnership with the earth. Mm-hmm. And, and I, I think that, that, that is very comforting to know that many people are dreaming this dream. We are co-creating our healing through this dreaming dimension.

Betty: Yes.

Laurin: It wasn't those images started appearing.

Betty: Exactly. I mean, the earth can bounce back, but we have to work with the laws of nature Yeah. To help her. Yeah. And we We're doing all kinds of thing like this, geoengineering controlling weather, which is denied constitutes, but has been going on since of the, after the war and, and all of the other pollution that we know about.

Mm-hmm. We have to learn to, to live within the laws of nature for our ancestors. Nothing was more important than knowing the laws of Gaia, of this great earth being and following them, living by them because we have laws, we have laws within our own nature of how we develop and how we thwart that development.

Laurin: Yes, yes, it really is. Talk to me for a minute about the jackal healers, cuz I know the jackal is a, is a, a symbol that is very important in this story that you, that you share with us in the book.

Betty: Yes. It's interesting because before my son was killed, before my husband was killed, I had a vision of the jackal, well it was Abus cuz Abus is the jackal as well.

And then suddenly he was by my right side and he said, I can teach you all you need to know. You do not know, need to have the books. I can teach you what you need to know. And then I looked at him and I said, who are you? And then suddenly it became this vast, he said, the void, the vast. So I knew that he is of course, an aspect of cosmic consciousness, which we are all capable of.

And within his old system, he transforms that decay into life. But I thought that's a powerful vision. And, but I didn't really take it in fully. And then after Peachy died, my husband had a vision in which he, it was about the jackal too. The jackal appeared to him and also was making it clear about the decay.

And he thought, that's easy. It's M ml. He said, you know, straight for the M and then two slanting lines and then straight. And then for the L is straight land and a fallen line. And I said, well, that's, he said, it's merchants of light is the hexagon merchants of light. And sometimes Ishwar would come up with some funny phrasing since English was his second language.

But I discovered much later that the merchants of light were, appeared in various places in the world as we began to have a renaissance of this ancient understanding, this wisdom. I was so shocked that it was that the merchants of light are like an invisible college, that they come when we need them.

I got it, ran back in the bedroom where he'd been, and I looked up in the back. It has the lines. I looked up that hexagram and I turned to it and it was hexagram 18 working on what has decayed, and we kept getting that message. Mm-hmm. Then it was kind of interesting because after they were dead and I was, I was thinking, I, I had both of those books, miracle of Death and Merchants of Light in Me, but I didn't know exactly whether to separate em.

What, but at any rate I thought, okay, I'm going to throw Ving Hmm. And just see what, where I should go and what do I get out of, what is it, 64, I got 18, work on what has decayed. Well, I think that in our time, what we're, we are living in a time when what is decayed is coming up to the surface and I mean, all of this stuff and we really, we thought, oh, I didn't know it was that bad.

Mm-hmm. And so I, the last two, the first two years of the pandemic, I had just come back from London where we launched me merchants of Light. And then this sort of started happening and I started doing the research and I thought, I seem to be, this is my destiny to work on what has decayed.

Mm-hmm. Of course they're gonna tell us what they want us to hear. And during the pandemic, everybody was censored who did not give the official pandemic. Mm-hmm. Doctors scientist. Yeah. It just was appalling. And, but anyway, so I think that Jackal is saying we have to be willing and strong enough to look at it and be willing to see it for what it is.

Mm-hmm. Before we can transform it. And the light, we have to know what it is.

Those kinds of things. Yeah. And so it's exactly the process you're talking about, that we have to be willing to see the dark pla parts of our world and our cultures and, and of ourselves, mm-hmm. Before we can bring it up into the really release it into the light is kind of the way I like to think of

it.

To, to do what? Say that one word. Release it into the light. Release it in I, that was the word I did. Yes. That's beautiful. Yeah. Release it into the light because. We don't know consciously how to heal it, but no, no Spirit

does. Right. And we just have to be able to let go of it so Spirit can work on it for us or Yeah.

And yes, but

I love, a lot of times I'll talk about just sending it into the light to be transformed into love

Betty: and that's perfect. Yeah. Yes. That's because, because when you work with this darkness, I mean, it went through, oh my goodness, I thought it's all over the world. This is a, this is a global what?

Our real potential was suppressed again and again and again, and yet now it's coming back. This is another renaissance. In each Renaissance period, these same things came up. And so this is the fifth Renaissance. Mm. And I think now we have all of this darkness from all of those centuries of suppression and lack of full information from science.

This is not this. Yes, we do ask that question. We are not the ones, I mean, we do want to know it and then ask that ba light to take it over and heal it. Mm-hmm. That we have to trust that, you know, people think, I don't wanna know that that's too depressing, or I've got too much. I don't think we, we might get depressed, but then we can get over it.

Yeah. When we remember that it's this vast universe of creativity and love, we're, you know, we're part of that, but we ask, as you say, so beautifully, release it into the light. Yeah. Know it and let it go.

Betty: Oh, exactly.

Laurin: And if it's a lesson we need to learn and we let go of that piece, but we haven't learned the lesson, it's gonna come right back.

Betty: Perfect. Exactly. Yes. And I would, I wrote a 40 page paper about what I had discovered, not for publication, because there would be censorship involved and, but I wanted it for myself and for my friends.

But it was, I, I ran into many other people. For instance Nicole, I can't remember his full name now, but it was really funny because he said, the moment I wanted to understand this darkness, I was taken on a highlight tour of my own darkness. And I think that's true. Of course, the people who are creating the worst crimes and they are crimes are part of our species.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which is pretty humbling. Yeah. But I also win the paper recorded Jung, because I think it's so beautiful when we, I had just given the talk in, in London on the pathology of Western culture, but he, Jung's statement I think is so beautiful. He said, it is the n He said, I really, I just like a guy had a method to heal this.

No. It's to help people open to the luminous, to the light within themselves, because those who experience that light within that luminous are released from the pathology. Mm-hmm. I just think it's beautiful.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. And it's not something that we are taught about or even how to do in our, no,

in our culture,

Laurin: We are learning. Yeah, we are. That's good.

Betty: Yes. Yes it is. And maybe we have to go through a lot of grief sometimes to get there. Mm-hmm. But and, and looking at our own darkness can be hard, but it's, it's such a gift because when we release that darkness, the light can come in.

Yes. And that's a great gift.

Laurin: And it rushes in.

Betty: Yes. Yes.

Laurin: It rushes in. It's really beautiful when, when you can do that. And I've had to do some of that work. I'm sure there's more to do, but for me, the biggest darkness to let go of was this need to be a victim.

Oh, wow.

So, oh, wow. Oh, people do quite a few people.

It was a, it was just a life changing moment for both of us.

Betty: Oh. And now you're able to help others. Yeah. Do that. Yeah. I, you know, I also had very powerful experiences about people coming to the earth and taking on particular kinds of illnesses that the Earth has and healing it in themselves. Mm-hmm. And that's the way they work on the earth to heal. Yeah. And probably,

Laurin: I haven't met anybody, but like that, but I have heard that. From multiple sources that there are people who, who come here specifically to do that and God bless them.

Betty: Well that may well have been new too, you know? Yeah. I think we don't know who we are.

Laurin: Yes. Yeah. No, I think, I think that's right. I think that there's a lot that I bring to being a healer because I have had to do that healing work myself and understand it and, and a lot of it came in with me cuz I had it from birth, you know, kind of stuff, so. Mm. Yeah. And the

Betty: whole ancestor thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. I read a lot of fantasy and science fiction. So a lot of what's happening now is like, oh, remember that story? Because somebody dreamed that up back in the seventies.

Betty: Yeah. And here, the imagination, the visionary world, I mean Yeah. They have envisioned so much of what's happening, right. And what is potential. Yes. You know?

Betty: Oh, I guess yes. Mm-hmm.

Laurin: Okay. I couldn't figure, I've never seen the word before, but it was by somebody named gr he calls this experience of the imminental mind. That, that mind, that is something I might call all that is, or great spirit. The, the oneness. A non that's not the right one. Oh.

It's a, it's a non-ordinary state of consciousness. A major gateway to this experience is imagination. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Which for me, I, I do shamanic journeying. And so I, I go into that, what they call non-ordinary reality. Mm-hmm. In shaman, shaman speak. And imagination does play a lot in accepting what, what's unfolds.

Betty: Yes, yes.

Betty: Yes. Well, of course you experience it and you know it. I think that we have been thwarted and are our use of the imagination because for several centuries mm-hmm.

Given this this dismissal of all of our brain components except the left conceptual brain intuition. Oh, that's just women's intuition. Yeah. In other words, yeah.

Right. Women's intuition

And so the right brain has a relationship with the higher brain centers and also the heart, which we now know is the fifth brain component. It gives more frequencies to the brain that we call the brain. Usually then the brain gives to the heart, but the heart, with the right brain, the heart opens. It's that great portal to the vastness of the universe of spirit.

Mm-hmm. So, As a creative writer, certainly you are working out of the, by activating this right brain, the symbolic, poetic consciousness that's connected to the higher brains centers and the heart, which is that feeling loving heart. And that opens us to worlds that we haven't thought of before. Mm-hmm.

So everything depended on this ability. To allow in this, these frequencies or higher frequencies and create new worlds. Mm-hmm. We are capable that we are creators and the imagination is our creative ability.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. I, I tell people a lot when I'm working with them, but just also, just in conversation, just use your imagination.

And it is so, it, it, it's set off to the side. It's secondary or tertiary, you know to the thinking brain, the, the linear brain I call it.

Betty: So, well, and actually it's the, it's, it's the source. It's the source. And so if conceptual, rational consciousness ignores it and dismisses it, then it's likely to do heinous things.

Mm-hmm. That is the human brain severed. Yeah. From the heart, which is a brain component. And from the symbolic brain. Symbolic brain. That's poetic consciousness. Would never let us get away with that. No. Because the feeling would come in if we have feeling is a way of knowing. Mm-hmm. Knowing on a deep level, imagining on a deep level.

Wow. And he said, this is very, very serious. That cannot. And he said to me, and it cannot be healed. And he said, there are many, many people I was thinking, they're just like a whole call civilization practically. And and we've just done horrible things, horrible things to people. Mm-hmm. Because of Alexa fio, if we want to call it that, because many people have so blocked it that they can't get in touch with the symbolic, they can't get in touch with the feeling.

And so they logically can have such discussions of how many people can we kill or how many, and people are having those discussions today, and in what way? And how can we do that throughout the world? So, I thought, you know, that's I, I do believe, however, I won't accept that it cannot be healed. Yeah. I don't want to accept that.

And There was already in the 17 hundreds one of the early symbolic theorists before that, they just thought of symbols as just profu, you know, kind of adornment. And he was saying, no, no, wait a minute. There's something else. I think he was absolutely brilliant. He's very, very hard to read. But one of my colleagues knew about him because his brother-in-law was a great scholar of Veco Kanig, Robert Kari.

Mm-hmm. And there must always be a movement constant and continuous movement between these two brain components. Mm-hmm. And it's just like a beautiful dance between the two. One must never be cut off, so it must be a what does he say? An integrative continuum of movement. Mm-hmm. Between the two, in order for the mind to experience its own wholeness.

And today we know that when you allow that symbolic brain, it's going to open up the heart for us. But he knew that. And imagine a man writing that. And in the same century, the French philosophers were saying every brain, everything that was done before, every other aspect of the mind, now we don't need it anymore.

Had it just, it caused, damaged it. We can't even imagine the western world is a result of what has been censored and forbidden and destroyed. So all that has destroyed and thwarted our development, and we are waking up to it today. I think. I what is Ian Mcg Gilcrest has written in a modern terms, a full description of this.

Yeah, yeah. Imagination.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah, that's, I mean, I, I actually get a physical sensation at times of, of just this expansive energy in, in my chest, and it's always when I'm working deeply in the heart energy,

so, oh, that's so beautiful. And heart math. I don't know. Heart math. I've heard of it. I, I haven't

really delved into I know.

Well, they're

saying what you're saying except they've done scientific studies about it, but they haven't. Meditation, which you place your hand. On your heart, left hand on your heart, and you breathe through the heart and allow that to flow. And my breathe through the heart, and then it flows through all the brain component back through the heart, because the heart is, is allowing the universe in.

Yeah. Yeah. And changes us. And

I've come a long way in the last probably eight or 10 years, cuz I had a friend who said, well, can't you feel your heart open when you do that? I'm like, no. And now it's like, all I have to do is think of it. It's just like this beautiful opening. It opens, you know,

Betty: it's so funny because my son we were talking about chakras one day and I said, oh, you know, Phi, I don't even know for sure that they exist.

Laurin: I've read about them, but I'm,

Betty: and he said, mom, can you, can you feel it? He said, they move too a little bit. You, you don't. He was so shocked. I didn't realize it. I have to say, I don't, you know. Mm-hmm. But you know, we're, that's okay. We're, we're waking up, we're waking

Laurin: up on experience and it's all

and the main thing is just to try to keep raising your vibe, really, your frequency.

Laurin: All right. There's one last question that I think we have time for that I really wanted to get to because it was my major question from reading this and living in the world that we live in, and that is how do we live in the world we're currently experiencing when we know, some of us know at least that it can, it can be healed, it can be beautiful, it can be peaceful, it can be light and joyful, and yet we're in this heavy, heavy times.

How do we, how do we hold on to that vision when we have the, excuse my language, the shit show going on around us?

We're all manifestations of, she called it the big breath rather than the Big Bang. Mm. Nice. We all Is that great? Oh, that's like, yes. And we're all part of that. How come? Can't be different. We're all part of it. We are divine uhhuh and we're all part of it. And she says, and we are all co-creators within it.

Mm-hmm. And so I think it's just so important that we realize we have this illness, this mental path, this pathology that makes us think it's inevitable or that we see it is indeed very dark. Mm-hmm. That there's a tremendous pathology of criminal behavior. Mm-hmm. It's that when we look at it, it's. It's almost like you.

But I think that by manifesting it in our own lives to the degree that we can, that that is the best proof and people are doing that all over the planet. Yeah. Like, you're healing people become conscious. Then I brought this darkness up, these blocks. I, I, I was able to face them. I could face that in me and then I could let it go.

And then the miracles happen. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing it, letting it go and then allowing the light to heal it. So I think it's in the work that each of us does, and I, I know that people all over the earth are doing this. It's interesting because I had. The first vision I had after Peachy's death was this Native American chanting.

Yeah. And they were all creating and helping in this healing. And then I read, oh, several years later Koto Robles, I don't remember her, Patricia Koto Robles, her son, when he was a little boy. And she's done miraculous things came into her and he said, oh, mommy, you know, we don't need to worry about the earth because I saw thousands and thousands of souls circling around and being born all over the earth, and they have come to help us.

Laurin: It's just little on me.

Betty: Yeah. Little on me. But there are so many little ese. And that's the whole point of co-creating is that we don't heal the planet. Yeah. We don't, one person doesn't heal the planet, is it? By working together. We are connected in, in a profound way to every one of those healers on the earth and all together we are powerful.

Singularly less so, but still important and powerful. Yeah. But when we co-create, we do it. Mm-hmm. And that's what's happening now. We are co-creating. With beings here and beings on the other who are coming and being born here and beings who are in spirit. Yes. Yeah. That's the merchants and

Laurin: I work a lot with what I call the spirit guides.

So

So such people can be born on the planet. Right. And so we can create more easily. Yes. Because our longing, I think people think, oh, we have really done nothing but they've loved and they've brought up a family and they love deeply and they grieved. And that longing is the frequency that pulls the light to us.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So deeply long. That's a creative act to a long for. For love and meaning and purpose. How many people on the earth are longing for that?

When you throw a rock in and everything you do ripples out and others receive it. Exactly. And exactly they take it in and open from it. Then that kind of strengthens it and, and further,

Betty: and Kurt continues the ripple. Yeah. And that was a exactly the image that my son used with my husband. He said, dad, think of it as, as a rock thrown into a pond.

He continues when picks it up and yeah, it's, it's small Things are very powerful. And in the merchants of light, I talk about the San Bushman in Africa and the Kalahari Desert, and their image of God was mantis. The mantis, the. The power of the infinitely small. Mm-hmm. I think that's so powerful for us in the West to think not big huge.

Large. The best. No. In just the smallest act of love. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Things can be healed.

Betty: True. Because now if you have the mask, that was a

Laurin: Well, you know, but you can smile with your eyes too.

Betty: Exactly. That's what I really learned to do that, but of course, only in doctor's offices. Now, do we have to, but no, that was a, that was a great threat to most people. Right. But you're right, right. Is small acts of kindness just a little. Yeah. It

Laurin: just means holding the door for somebody or helping them, you know, an an elder with their bags to the, the cars.

You know, little things

mean a lot.

Betty: They do. They do. It was, it reminds me of Kim with someone she knew and she's just, so, she's 86, I think, or nine, I don't know. And she's just the independent zone, but she has very little money, but she doesn't ever say anything about it. But Kim sent her money mm-hmm.

Now I've often thought, yes, all three of my family were killed in car accidents, but they died quickly. Mm-hmm. And a good clean death, you might say. Yeah. Yeah. I could have had all three of them with brain damage and wheelchairs. Mm-hmm. Not being able to live life. I am so grateful that they had a good death.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just so many. And the worst thing there is a, there is a gift. Mm-hmm. Always.

Betty: be healed. And be healed and

Laurin: transformed, heal better.

Yes. Go out and spread more light for pe other people. So yeah, there's always I mean this is, it's kind of like being in a never ending university, you know, to be a human.

Betty: That's exactly, that's exactly what we are. And we don't just dry up when we get old and do nothing. And I have seen people do that.

It's like, it's the end of life. It's the end of everything. And I'm sad and I'm depressed and everyth, nothing good is happening. No, we have to, if I try to tell myself if it seems empty, then that's a space in which I can create something.

Laurin: Yes, yes, yes,

Betty: yes. That's there for me to create something. And so we have to change our views about old age, about growing old it.

Mm-hmm. It's should be an, it should be an art and

Betty: I would like to do that too. Yeah. And I'm working on it now. I, next week I'll be 86.

Laurin: Oh, you're kidding.

I am. I'm not kidding. I mean, I'm,

I am shocked. I never would have guessed.

Oh, really? Oh, thank you. That's a good compliment. But I, I I am, I'm grateful for health and so many things but I'm learning now a a little bit different way of life. My site is not as good, so I will not renew my license on my birthday.

Mm-hmm. And I have to learn to live in a different way, plan differently. Mm-hmm. And I'm okay. I want to learn how to accept it gracefully.

That's so great. That's, that's one of those things too that I know every, every adult in my life who has grown old, I mean into, well into their eighties, has been unwilling to give up driving. Yeah. Even when all the kids were saying not safe anymore,

And that's okay. Yeah. I think it's just a different, it's not. Everything. It's something I've loved it for a long time. Mm-hmm. And now I can have a different way, but I didn't want, oh, I did not want to hurt anybody. Yeah. You know, and so I thought, Nope, I've gotta know myself when it's time. Mm-hmm. And so it is time and I'm okay with it.

Laurin: So that's, yeah. That's a beautiful example of aging gracefully is just Oh

Betty: yeah. I hope, I hope I do it gracefully. Yeah, no,

Laurin: it's wonderful. I'm, I'm in my sixties and so I'm, I'm beginning to, you know, sort of think about the next 20, 30 years maybe for me.

Laurin: good, but good.

Betty: Yeah, it's true. And if we keep healthy mentally, physically, spiritually

Laurin: intellectually too, just keep the brain. Absolutely curious. Keep it working. Yeah. Keep it working. Just stay curious. That's, that's my, you know, my website or my podcast is curiously wise, because I think

that's true. Yes.

The more curious you are, the more wisdom you gain.

Betty: Oh, it's so true. That's beautiful. Yes. Thanks for bringing that up. I didn't think about it, but Absolutely. And, and that's what I was trying to say with people who are growing old, they give that up. Mm-hmm. And then there's, we cannot give that up. That's who we are. Yeah. You know, we're gonna live in different ways that, that the body requires at different times. Mm-hmm. But we keep living and being, curiously wise.

Yeah. And, and then it just makes lives beautiful.

Betty: to talk about, but Oh, good. I've loved it too. Yeah.

Laurin: So I just, I wanna, I wanna really thank you for being here with me, Betty, and sharing your stories both of your books with me. They have changed my life in some beautiful ways, opened my mind strengthened my heart, and so,

Betty: oh, thank you. That's beautiful.

Laurin: Just, I'm grateful

for that.

Betty: Oh, I'm grateful to hear that. Thank you.

Laurin: All right, friends, thank you for joining us for another great conversation here at Curiously Wise. I hope that you will join us again next week.

just barely, now that it's

23, you'll be able to find us on YouTube as well. Have a wonderful day. Stay curious.

Please head over to my website. www.heartlightjoy.com. Curiously wise is a team effort. I am grateful for the skill and enthusiasm. Arlene men brought our producer and Sam Wittig. Our audio engineer bring to this collaboration. Our music is where the light is by lemon music studio.

I'm Laurin Wittig. Please join me again next week. For another episode of curiously wise, eyes from my heart to yours, may your life be filled with love, light joy, and of course, curiosity.