Sabrina Gebhardt is a photographer and coach with two distinct audiences, and she was having a difficult time speaking to two people with one website. 

After we worked together, her website became her home base that communicated everything she does in a cohesive way that also spotlights her personality.

In this episode, Sabrina shares how her business has evolved, so she can do the work she loves doing with the clients she loves working with and how leading with her authenticity has contributed to her success. 

03:21 — The challenge with having two different offers and audiences

06:06 — How Sabrina developed her two offers overtime to make an offer suite she loves 

10:51 — Creating alignment between social media and your website

15:08 — How personality-packed website copy helps you reach more clients beyond converting more of your website visitors

18:10 — What it's like to have someone translate your personality and ideas into effective copy

👋 CONNECT WITH SABRINA GEBHARDT (SHE/HER)

As a lifestyle photographer of more than 12 years and a business coach for photographers and other entrepreneurs, Sabrina calls Fort Worth, Texas, home. In her life, Sabrina practices what she teaches: as a busy wife to her college sweetheart and a busy mom to their three children and two dogs, she knows what it means to balance work and life with a whole lot of heart and caffeine. An Enneagram 3 who loves emojis, color, and reading, she’s learned that her business (and her sanity) benefit from slowing down, and she’s on a mission to show other female business owners how to do just that.

Root to Rise Mastermind — use code SARAG for $150 off:  https://sabrinagebhardt.com/mastermind/

—

JOIN US INSIDE WORDS THAT CLICK

If "update my website copy" is sitting unchecked on your to do list, but you aren't quite ready to swing copywriting at a done-for-you price, Word That Click, a website copy course for photographers, is for you. In this self-study course, from What Sara Said, you will learn how to craft website pages that showcase who you are, your heart for what you do, and the value of your work.

As a special bonus, just for my podcast listeners use code oncall for $50 off the course at whatsarasaid.com/course

Join us inside Words that Click!

—

From a website copy polish or a custom long-form sales page to an email welcome or launch sequence, I’ll flex my done-for-you muscles and take on your top-priority to-dos in a half-day or full-day VIP experience.

VIP Days

—

🌐 Website

📸 Instagram

🎥 YouTube

Mentioned in this episode:

VIP Days

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:00

letting somebody do what they're really good at and

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:03

show you how they can step into your head, to step into your brain.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:07

And what comes out of it is just, it's absolute magic.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:10

It's so, so fun.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:12

I have no idea how you do it, but it was a really fun process.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:16

You are listening to The Copywriter On Call podcast.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:19

I'm your most Sarah Gillis copywriter, word, magic maker, and owner of

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:23

what Sarah said on this podcast.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:26

You'll feel empowered to show up online in a way that has you saying, that's so me.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:32

Let's get started.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:33

Welcome back to another episode of The Copywriter On-Call podcast.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:37

I'm your host, Sarah Gillis, and I am clocking some on-call

Sara Gillis: 00:00:40

hours today with a client of mine who's also a friend, Sabrina.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:43

Sabrina Gehart is a lifestyle, family and newborn photographer, a business coach

Sara Gillis: 00:00:48

and host of the Shoot It Straight podcast.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:50

Welcome, Sabrina.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:51

I'm so glad to have you.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:52

Hi, friend.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:00:53

I'm so excited to be here.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:55

Me too.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:56

I'm so excited that you are here and to chat all about your website project today.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:01

Why don't you start by telling us a little bit more about who you are and what you

Sara Gillis: 00:01:04

do, and what you love about what you do.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:06

Yeah, so I am in this interesting position

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:09

where I have two umbrellas.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:11

To my business.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:12

And so the, what I do question, so to speak, is a unique for me.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:18

I have been a family and newborn photographer for almost 13 years,

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:22

and I'm still actively practicing.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:24

I still photograph every single week and love that part of my job to capture

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:28

memories and to get to be invited into intimate experiences with my clients.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:33

Oftentimes it's in the hospital, like 24 hours after their new baby is born or

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:38

at home when they've welcomed the baby.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:40

And that's just always such a special moment.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:43

And it's such an honor that I get to do that.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:45

But then I have this other part of my business where I am a business coach

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:48

and I coach photographers and female creatives how to have a business

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:54

that is sustainable and successful.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:01:56

I want them to make money and do really well and be a leader in the

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:01

field, but I also want them to have that sustainability piece of having

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:06

a life and not being in burnout and getting to take care of themselves.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:10

And it's a really interesting balance.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:12

So, I have all kinds of ways that you can work with me as far as coaching.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:16

And then the podcast is kind of like the education thing, it's

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:19

little mini coaching episodes.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:21

And that's been really fun.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:22

I've been doing that for just over a year now,

Sara Gillis: 00:02:24

It's so awesome.

Sara Gillis: 00:02:25

Love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:02:26

And tell us where you are and a little bit about you personally too.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:29

Yeah.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:30

I'm in Fort Worth, Texas, and let's see, I've got three kids.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:33

We are in the season of life where they're all at different campuses.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:36

So I have a high schooler, a middle schooler, and an elementary schooler.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:40

And everybody's active and the sports and the social things.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:43

And so I'm just, an Uber driver that works for free.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:46

And I am, I'm married to my college sweetheart.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:49

We've been married for 18 and a half years, which is.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:52

Wild to me.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:54

Wild to me.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:55

And I've got two fur babies at home that hopefully won't

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:57

interrupt us on our chat today.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:02:59

I'm just doing that mom life and trying to balance the business as well.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:03:04

So I'm right there along with a lot of your listeners.

Sara Gillis: 00:03:06

Yeah, that's what I think makes you so relatable

Sara Gillis: 00:03:08

and such a great educator.

Sara Gillis: 00:03:10

And photographer really, because you know what it's like you've walked the

Sara Gillis: 00:03:13

walk, you're still walking the walk with a lot of your clients and both on the

Sara Gillis: 00:03:18

photography side and the coaching side.

Sara Gillis: 00:03:19

So I think that's wonderful.

Sara Gillis: 00:03:21

Let's start by just chatting a little bit about what you were experiencing

Sara Gillis: 00:03:24

before we started working together.

Sara Gillis: 00:03:26

So tell me a little bit about how your website felt to you before we

Sara Gillis: 00:03:30

connected and what you really wanted it to feel like after we worked together.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:03:35

Yeah, so like I said, I'm in this unique position where I've

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:03:39

got two different, very different parts of my business who are targeted to two very

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:03:44

different people and different locations.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:03:47

And while I have loved being in the education space.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:03:51

It has been confusing at times in my own brain.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:03:55

I actually like to write content.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:03:57

I like to create things, but when it came to my website and figuring out how to

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:04:02

make it speak to two drastically different audiences, I was Yeah, this is too much.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:04:08

It's too my brain and I needed somebody to come in from the outside who was

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:04:13

seeing what I was doing and who could learn my personality and do that for me.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:04:18

It was just, it was too much to be an inside job, if you will.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:04:22

Like doing the work on my own thing, trying to wear two different hats.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:04:26

It was just confusing.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:27

Yeah, I think that's so common, especially for people

Sara Gillis: 00:04:30

who either balance different niches or like you really straddle

Sara Gillis: 00:04:34

both sides of your business.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:36

I mean, on the coaching side, you can serve somebody anywhere, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:04:39

They can be located anywhere.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:41

But obviously you're based in Fort Worth and so those are your photography

Sara Gillis: 00:04:45

clients that you want to serve.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:46

And so it wouldn't be helpful if somebody from Canada is like, Hey, I really want to

Sara Gillis: 00:04:50

hire you, even though you love to travel.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:04:53

That's true.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:04:54

true.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:55

Yeah, I think that it's a challenge that a lot of people can

Sara Gillis: 00:04:57

relate to, and you're right, it can be difficult to have one website hub

Sara Gillis: 00:05:02

that speaks to both clients because you really do have multiple aligned

Sara Gillis: 00:05:07

clients that you want to attract.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:05:09

Right?

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:05:10

Yeah.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:05:11

that's where you came in.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:05:12

You helped me, filter through the confusion and the mess, and

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:05:15

create something that really does speak to two different audiences.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:19

Yeah.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:20

I think too, that when we were working together, you had.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:24

Your brand voice really nailed down.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:26

You knew who you were.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:27

You knew who you wanted to attract.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:30

You had really solid offers.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:33

All of the pieces and parts were there.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:34

It was just about marrying the two sides of your business really into

Sara Gillis: 00:05:39

one cohesive spot, whether you were a photography client or a coaching client.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:45

Really marrying the two together.

Sara Gillis: 00:05:47

And I think that when it comes to website copy in general, having this strong

Sara Gillis: 00:05:53

foundation that you had with offers and knowing who you serve and what niches

Sara Gillis: 00:05:58

you are active in, what clients you always want to attract and work with.

Sara Gillis: 00:06:02

You had such a great understanding of all of that, and it just

Sara Gillis: 00:06:04

made the copy process easier.

Sara Gillis: 00:06:06

So tell us a little bit about how long it took you to figure out.

Sara Gillis: 00:06:09

Okay.

Sara Gillis: 00:06:10

Yeah, I know what my offers are.

Sara Gillis: 00:06:12

I know who I want to serve and how I want to serve them, whether

Sara Gillis: 00:06:16

it's a full session or a hospital session like you were talking about.

Sara Gillis: 00:06:20

So tell us about that progression in your business to really finding

Sara Gillis: 00:06:23

those offers that were solid.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:25

So on the photography side of my business,

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:28

it was definitely an evolution.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:30

When I started, 13 years ago, I thought I had to do everything and I

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:34

thought I had to serve everyone that went into my inbox or text me or sent

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:38

me an email and very quickly learned what I liked and what I didn't like.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:43

And it was probably the three-year point in my business when I was

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:47

willing to say, okay I'm going to stop doing certain things and I'm

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:50

going to focus on these other things.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:53

And it was really scary.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:54

Anybody who's gone through that transition before, it's really scary

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:06:58

to think that you're going to say no to people, that you're going to say no

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:01

money and hope that other stuff fills in.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:04

But it was definitely worth it because slowly that, first year that I made that

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:10

change, you started to see a really drastic difference in the inquiries, they

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:14

started to be I wanted to do and what I was showing and who I was working with.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:18

And over the years since then, there's been some things that

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:22

I've stopped doing and then some things that I've added doing.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:25

At the time, hospital photography was literally not a thing.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:29

And There were times where I saw birth photographers and the magic that they

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:35

create, but I knew that in my season of life, I don't have the childcare that's

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:38

available at the drop of a hat anytime.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:40

And so I started to see people share about this first 48 thing,

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:45

and I thought, that's the way, that's the way that I can do this.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:49

And I was one of the first people in our area to do it, and I had

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:53

to teach my clients like what it was and why they wanted it.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:56

And so that was a really fun addition.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:07:58

And then over the years I also stopped really photographing clients outside.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:03

I don't like that.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:04

And I will say, I think it's because I live in an area

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:07

that's not inspiring outdoors.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:09

We don't have mountains, we don't have ocean, we don't have anything charming.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:13

It's just like city.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:15

hot.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:15

And so, when I'm photographing people in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, we

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:19

are in their home or in a studio.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:21

And so I've been pushing away the outdoor stuff.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:24

So it's definitely been an evolution over time.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:27

I will say the opposite is true in my coaching business.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:31

I knew right away, who I wanted to serve, who I didn't want to serve,

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:35

what I wanted to specialize in, and what I was not willing to say.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:40

I knew that I wanted to teach the business perspective of photography

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:44

and not the technical side of things.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:47

I'll teach that.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:48

I knew I wanted to serve women.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:49

Sorry guys.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:08:50

And so that was a really immediate, I just knew exactly what I wanted to do there.

Sara Gillis: 00:08:55

Yeah, I love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:08:56

I think that gives, permission for a lot of us to continue evolving, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:09:01

You've been in business so much longer than I have personally, and I know

Sara Gillis: 00:09:04

that my own services and offers have evolved so much just in my three years

Sara Gillis: 00:09:09

of business, and I can only imagine that will continue and that's okay.

Sara Gillis: 00:09:13

It's okay for things to continually evolve.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:15

Yeah, exactly.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:16

And the thing I really want to say about that is that it's also okay to stop doing

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:24

something that's really working well.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:26

That's what people get afraid of.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:29

They're like, oh my gosh, this is my top package.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:34

This is the thing that makes me the most money.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:36

This is the thing that I've quote, unquote become known for.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:39

But if you don't enjoy it anymore, or it's not serving you in your season

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:43

of life, it's time to say goodbye to that and hello to something

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:46

else that will eventually become really successful for your business.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:09:50

It's okay to let go of something that is your bread and butter, so to speak.

Sara Gillis: 00:09:55

It's so scary to do that.

Sara Gillis: 00:09:58

Speaking from experience, I said goodbye to one of my biggest clients in my second

Sara Gillis: 00:10:03

year of business, and it was just because I was moving into a different space.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:07

I was moving into a different phase of life, and their needs were different.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:11

Their needs changed, and so did mine.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:13

And it can be really scary to say, thank you so much for getting me

Sara Gillis: 00:10:18

here, but I know you're not going to get me there and I'm not going

Sara Gillis: 00:10:21

to get you where you want to go.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:23

And it can be so hard to say that, but it has been so beautiful to see what

Sara Gillis: 00:10:28

comes in that gap from the universe.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:31

Exactly.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:32

I think just like you said, the universe rewards you for being brave.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:36

And when you can trust your gut and trust your intuition and make that hard choice.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:42

It's literally you have flung the door wide open for the universe

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:45

to be like, oh, I got this.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:47

I've got this covered.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:48

You just wait.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:49

just wait and see what's coming.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:10:50

It's really fun.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:51

Yeah, I love that so much.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:53

So I think that when we were working together on your website, a lot of the

Sara Gillis: 00:10:58

pieces and parts of how you were showing up online, We're really good and solid.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:03

It's just a matter of matching or aligning your website copy to the way

Sara Gillis: 00:11:07

you were already interacting with your clients, engaging on social media.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:11

And so tell me a little bit about how you were showing up online and how we

Sara Gillis: 00:11:15

work together to kind of match that.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:17

Yeah.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:18

I am a very, what you see is what you get person.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:21

I am an open book.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:22

I'm the kind of person that will, be at the checkout line at the grocery store.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:27

And if somebody asks me a question, I'm like, let me tell you all my deep secrets.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:30

Okay.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:30

I just, I am willing to put it out there to hold space for people and to be an

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:37

example and just to love on humans.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:40

And so I don't hold anything back and I show up that way too, if

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:45

you follow me on Instagram, I'll share it and show it like it is.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:48

Right.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:48

And if you're on my email list, I talk a lot about stuff

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:51

that's hard, and frustrating.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:53

And I think when it came to my website, I think also, this is probably a

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:11:57

common thing, people feel like their website has to be more formal, and

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:12:01

a little more like this is quote unquote officially my website.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:12:05

And so things aren't as casual or as conversational.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:12:10

I also feel like, your website is not a talking head, like Instagram can be.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:12:14

And so it's hard to translate how you're showing up on your Instagram

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:12:18

stories into words on a website page, and so, that's where you came in.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:24

I think that's so true, and I always love to say that generic,

Sara Gillis: 00:12:30

formal, stiff copy doesn't serve anyone.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:33

It doesn't serve you, and it doesn't serve your aligned clients.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:36

It doesn't serve the people who you want to bring in, and it doesn't

Sara Gillis: 00:12:39

serve you because nobody's getting to know each other in that regard.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:42

Nobody's building relationships, nobody's feeling seen or understood.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:48

Generic and stiff copy just doesn't help anyone.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:51

And so I love that we are in a business world now where like we can

Sara Gillis: 00:12:57

leave behind the generic copy, the formal, I need to be professional,

Sara Gillis: 00:13:02

quote unquote, and just be real.

Sara Gillis: 00:13:05

And real doesn't have to mean the opposite of professional.

Sara Gillis: 00:13:08

It's just authentic.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:10

That's so true.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:10

Exactly.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:11

I feel like in the copy space and also just in the

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:15

photography industry specifically.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:17

It has come so far in 15 years, in 20 years, the photography industry

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:23

used to be such a bro space.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:24

Like photographers men and they did things a certain way and everybody

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:30

used studio lighting and everybody had a studio and they really did do, they

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:35

were jack of all trades and they would photograph anything that came their way

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:38

and they had all these, professional license and degrees and blah, blah, blah.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:43

And it is just not that way anymore.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:45

It has made a really big 180.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:48

To be, there's so many powerhouse women and we're doing things differently and

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:53

we're showing up in the world differently and websites and copy and just marketing

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:13:58

in general has come with it, right?

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:14:00

It has gone away from the stiff formal in a box bro energy into well, you can

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:14:06

also be successful and professional and thrive in this whole other realm,

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:14:10

and it's been really fun to watch.

Sara Gillis: 00:14:12

I remember when I started my business in 2020, my dad,

Sara Gillis: 00:14:15

who's been in human resources for like almost his entire career is

Sara Gillis: 00:14:19

like, you're going to do what now?

Sara Gillis: 00:14:21

And I'm like, I'm going to write website copy for people who are

Sara Gillis: 00:14:24

like real, online, and he's what?

Sara Gillis: 00:14:26

What do you mean online?

Sara Gillis: 00:14:29

And it's just, it, he gets it more now.

Sara Gillis: 00:14:32

He's yeah, you write websites, that's what you do.

Sara Gillis: 00:14:34

But at the beginning he was like, what do you mean?

Sara Gillis: 00:14:36

Are people real online?

Sara Gillis: 00:14:37

Is this social media?

Sara Gillis: 00:14:39

Are you talking about social media?

Sara Gillis: 00:14:41

But there used to be, I feel like two separate, parts of ourselves where we

Sara Gillis: 00:14:46

showed up one way on websites and we showed up another way on social media.

Sara Gillis: 00:14:49

And the social media part was quote unquote, not professional.

Sara Gillis: 00:14:53

And I just feel like that's just not true anymore.

Sara Gillis: 00:14:56

And we're proving that both sides of us, both the business side and

Sara Gillis: 00:15:02

the personal side, can blend and can really be beautiful in that space.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:06

sabrina_gebhardt-7ci2qnrxz__raw-synced-video-cfr_sara-gillis-sabrina-gebhardt_2023-aug-31-0211pm_sara_gillis's studio-1: Yeah.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:07

I love it.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:08

Okay, so tell me a little bit about showing up online after your

Sara Gillis: 00:15:12

website copy project was complete.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:14

You had personality packed copy.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:17

It felt a little more polished and a little more like you.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:20

So how did that help you reach clients, both on the coaching

Sara Gillis: 00:15:23

side and on the photography side?

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:25

It's this weird energy of And I didn't really

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:27

expect this, but it was this weird energy of just kind of knowing that.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:32

Where I was showing up everywhere was cohesive.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:35

I knew that I was still showing up on Instagram the same way, still showing

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:38

up in email marketing the same way.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:39

But if people clicked through to my website, which is the goal,

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:43

they would exactly oh, this is exactly what I saw over there.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:47

And it was just that like confidence boost of okay.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:50

I'm legit, I'm cohesive.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:52

People are going to, they see what they get and my website's going to match.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:55

So that was part of it.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:56

The other part of the story is that right before I hired you, I

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:15:59

had just done a website switch.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:02

So I had moved from Squarespace to show it, and so my website was completely new.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:08

And it felt the perfect timing to have the copy and the website kind of

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:13

launched at the same time because the layout changed and it really was focused

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:18

on Here's Sabrina, the educator.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:21

Here's Sabrina, the photographer, here's who she is with both of those things.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:25

And it was just a really exciting launch.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:28

Finally I had a home base that spoke to all the things I did, who I

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:33

was, and the language was cohesive.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:36

It was just really exciting because before that it felt very segmented

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:41

almost depending on page you landed on, depending on what you know, is what

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:44

you'd see, and it just didn't feel right.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:47

And so since then, since working together and having a new website

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:50

and having all the copy done my website has just continued to

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:54

tick upwards, slow and steady.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:55

That's how ss e o a slow and steady progression.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:16:58

And so that's just been really fun and exciting and rewarding to see.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:02

Yeah.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:02

I love that and I love that you mentioned that you switched platforms too.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:06

That's a big transition for anyone.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:08

And honestly, pairing the launch of the new design the new template

Sara Gillis: 00:17:12

or layout with the copy, that's a beautiful storm and I love to recommend

Sara Gillis: 00:17:16

that clients tackle both at once.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:19

But even if you don't, Just the opportunity to feel more like yourself

Sara Gillis: 00:17:25

in your copy is really a game changer.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:27

It can elevate your confidence in ways that you never expected.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:17:32

Yeah.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:17:32

Another little fun perk has been that whenever I am, writing a caption

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:17:38

or an email, or if I'm creating a new sales page for something, I'm

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:17:42

able to pull little paragraphs and sentences from copy that you created

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:17:46

and slap them into other things.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:17:48

There's so many ways to reuse and repurpose all of the amazing words

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:17:52

that are on my website now, and so that's been kind of a fun little

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:17:54

perk that I didn't really expect.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:56

Yeah.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:56

That's so fun when clients are able to grab pieces and

Sara Gillis: 00:18:00

parts and say, you know what?

Sara Gillis: 00:18:01

This actually really works for this promotion I'm running.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:03

Or, this really feels like exactly what my clients need to hear today.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:08

Love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:09

That's awesome.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:10

So tell me a little bit about what it's been like for you to have someone who

Sara Gillis: 00:18:16

knows you, but you know, I'm not in your daily life every single moment.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:20

So to have somebody capture what you've wanted to say or what you

Sara Gillis: 00:18:25

hoped in your heart that your website would emphasize, but you haven't

Sara Gillis: 00:18:29

really been able to say in a way.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:31

How has that felt to you to have somebody come in and get to know who

Sara Gillis: 00:18:34

you are, get to know your business, and really pull that, pull those

Sara Gillis: 00:18:38

emotions and pull those into words.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:18:40

I will say that it's like working with a wizard it's like

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:18:47

working with a magician or a wizard because you go through the prep work

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:18:51

that you send out for new clients, which is very thorough and really exciting.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:18:56

But still, I'm like answering questions and saying things and I've got a story

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:18:59

and whatever, and I'm putting in all the information and I'm like, I still don't

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:02

know how this is going to work, but okay.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:05

I'm filling out the form.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:06

And then to see the first draft of the copy and to read through

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:10

it and be like, mind blown.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:12

I don't understand how you do that.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:15

But it's so incredible and this is such a perfect example of outsourcing to

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:20

somebody who is good at this and what kind of a difference you get than when you

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:25

just try and figure it out and wing it.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:28

I also compare it to it when you hire somebody to have your branding done

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:32

it's this, it's a similar process.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:34

It's a really long it intake form and a questionnaire, and they're really getting

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:38

to know your personality and then all of a sudden they show you a proof and you're

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:42

like, I don't even know how you came to that, but that's me on paper right there.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:46

And

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:47

letting somebody do what they're really good at and show you how they can step

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:52

into your head, to step into your brain.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:54

And what comes out of it is just, it's absolute magic.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:58

It's so, so fun.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:19:59

I have no idea how you do it, but it was a really fun process.

Sara Gillis: 00:20:02

I love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:20:03

Thank you for your kind words.

Sara Gillis: 00:20:04

I think one of the reasons I love so much working with photographers is because

Sara Gillis: 00:20:09

you have such beautiful imagery and you make people feel seen through your

Sara Gillis: 00:20:14

images, through your lens, and that's always my goal with copy, whether it's

Sara Gillis: 00:20:19

attracting an ideal client or really just speaking to speaking words to your story.

Sara Gillis: 00:20:25

It's about being seen and about being understood.

Sara Gillis: 00:20:27

And so I love the marriage of photos that do that with copy that does

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:20:32

Yeah, exactly.

Sara Gillis: 00:20:33

So I have been your copywriter and you have also been my

Sara Gillis: 00:20:38

coach, and so I would love to chat a little bit about what that has looked

Sara Gillis: 00:20:42

like for your business and what's coming up for you in terms of coaching that you

Sara Gillis: 00:20:46

would love to share with our audience.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:20:48

Yeah, so I have all the coaching I have a

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:20:51

self-study course for photographers.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:20:53

I've got a membership that you are in, and the membership this fun little monthly

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:20:58

it's just the best community ever.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:01

And then I think the best way to work with me is through my mastermind.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:05

It's called Route to Rise, and it's a four month experience.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:08

It is four months of weekly calls and we go through a book a month together

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:14

and we have guest teachers every month.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:16

And I do coaching on specific topics.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:19

It is a really unique container because the focus is not only on your

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:25

business, I like to say it is business development meets personal development.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:29

Through the experience there's, one-on-one Voxer hours all week, every

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:33

week, and there's all these calls and we.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:37

Get to like real heart issues that people don't realize are

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:41

married to business issues.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:42

If you've got boundary issues in your personal life, you have

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:45

boundary issues in your business.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:47

If you have mindset struggles in your personal life, they're

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:49

carrying over into your business.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:51

And so we address all of that in the program.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:54

It's kind of like life coaching meets business coaching, meets

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:21:57

one-on-one coaching with this great community aspect as well.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:01

And my favorite part is that baked into the program you can choose to attend the

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:07

retreat and it's three days in person.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:11

And we photograph sessions together and we do portfolio reviews and headshots and

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:15

we eat well and is such a luxury weekend.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:19

So the women that have gone through this program have had the most

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:24

unbelievable transformations, not just in their business, but huge

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:29

transformations in their personal life and how they show up in the world.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:32

And it has just been such an honor and a joy to do it.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:35

It's something I thought about for years and I sat on and I just, I wasn't sure.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:40

And then, mid to late 2021 when the pandemic was kind of settling down and

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:45

people were getting together again.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:47

I felt a nudge that I was like, it's time.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:49

Time to birth this.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:50

And Sarah, I will tell you that it's like when the retreat is over the

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:22:55

girls leave and I shut the door on the last person and I literally weep.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:00

I weep every time.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:01

And I'm not a crier.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:03

I am not a crier, but I just, it is like a full body weep in

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:08

gratitude that I get to do this.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:11

And I tell people, it feels almost religious to me that like I am so certain

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:15

I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:17

So anyways, the next round of that actually opens today and the 2024 run is

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:23

going to be early January to early May.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:26

And we are going to be in Florida for the retreat this year, so it's

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:31

going to be absolutely incredible.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:32

We're going to shoot a session on the beach.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:35

We'll shoot an in-home session, and then our guest educator at the retreat

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:39

is going to have a branding focus.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:41

So we're going to shoot a branding session at the retreat.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:45

So the lineup of speakers is incredible.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:48

The books are incredible.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:49

This will be the fourth run of the program, and I'm really excited to

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:53

see who jumps in and who's ready to commit to some massive change in their

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:23:58

business and in their life for 2024.

Sara Gillis: 00:24:01

I love that so much as somebody who wrote copy for

Sara Gillis: 00:24:05

you, but also participated in a previous run of this program.

Sara Gillis: 00:24:08

It is so unique not only to combine the business side with the personal

Sara Gillis: 00:24:14

side, but to write copy that really marries both, but then also to

Sara Gillis: 00:24:19

experience it in person as well.

Sara Gillis: 00:24:22

To be a participant and see the copy that we collaborated on come to life and be

Sara Gillis: 00:24:29

made real is such a unique experience.

Sara Gillis: 00:24:32

But gosh if you are looking for accountability, this is the place to go.

Sara Gillis: 00:24:36

This is the program you need.

Sara Gillis: 00:24:37

Love it.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:38

thanks.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:38

Yeah, it's really fabulous.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:39

Obviously, you, Sarah, you did not attend the retreat because, not being a

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:43

photographer you would've had a lot of downtime, but So Sarah participated in

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:49

just an online only seat, which there are those available for people who can't

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:53

or don't want to travel to the retreat.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:55

And she still got the whole full experience.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:57

She just.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:24:58

Skipped the little weekend was kind of in the middle.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:00

So it's a really unique program and a unique container.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:05

And it has evolved slightly every time we've done it for the better, right?

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:10

It has just gotten better and better.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:12

And part of that is like we talked about earlier.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:15

The farther I get into coaching the better I see the needs of women.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:18

I'm able to fine tune things to really hold space for them and to be able to lift

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:24

them up in the best capacity possible.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:26

So it is absolutely my favorite thing that I do.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:29

Yeah, so I love it.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:31

I am a proud affiliate of this program.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:33

Can't wait to share a little more with you guys about that.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:37

But thank you so much for joining me today, my friend.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:39

I'm so grateful for you and I'm so excited that you are happy and

Sara Gillis: 00:25:45

pleased with your website project.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:47

Yes, this has been, so, this has been such a fun chat, my friend.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:49

Thank you.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:50

And yes, I'm so happy with my copy that I literally don't even touch it.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:55

I'm like, it's perfect.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:56

Don't touch anything.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:25:58

And I have to, anytime I do have to create something new, I pinging you and

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:26:03

I'm like, okay, I need your help because it needs to match other good stuff.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:26:06

So it's been such a great experience.

Sabrina Gebhardt: 00:26:08

Absolutely.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:09

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:10

So I am sending a big virtual hug to Sabrinas for joining

Sara Gillis: 00:26:13

me today on the podcast.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:15

Again, if you are seeking group accountability and one-on-one coaching

Sara Gillis: 00:26:19

merged together, the route to Rise Mastermind and retreat is for you.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:23

Spots are limited both for retreat seats and for online only seats.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:27

So you'll want to act fast.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:29

I'll have the link for you in the show notes, but you can use

Sara Gillis: 00:26:32

the code Sara G for $150 off.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:36

Super excited.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:37

Alright, as always, thanks so much for listening everybody, and this is

Sara Gillis: 00:26:40

your copywriter on call signing off.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:44

Thanks for listening to The Copywriter On Call podcast.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:47

If this episode has you feeling all sorts of inspired to show up as yourself online,

Sara Gillis: 00:26:51

click that subscribe button so you don't miss my stories or practical advice to

Sara Gillis: 00:26:55

help you express your quirky, vulnerable, and authentic self online chat soon.