“A client said to Frank Lloyd Wright, ‘You know, of course, you’re famous; all your clients are rich.’ And he scowled and said, ‘I don’t care whether I’m doing a chicken coop. If the client is open to doing something really special, I’m in.’ He would have said it a little more elegantly, but that’s the way that I feel.”
- David Applebaum, Owner of David Applebaum Architect and Host of American Mansion on NatGeo
Normally, our topic list hits most of the high points in the episode, but this time, the stories, insights, memories, and experiences our guest shares are too big to contain. This episode focuses on architect David Applebaum, an accomplished and unique architect serving California and Texas.
Tune in to hear about David’s projects for the rich and famous and practical advice on delivering the best possible result for your clients. Learn from his years of experience and his approach to architecture and life. David has a lot to share with you, so strap in.
Topics discussed in this interview:
- David’s star-studded client list and how he got his start
- Working for Frank Sinatra
- How has the architecture world changed post-COVID?
- What tools should a young architect focus on?
- Example projects and applications from David’s portfolio
- Delivering value to clients or getting what you pay for
- Identifying the best contractors and developing relationships with them
- David’s pick for the next decade’s game-changer
- Rapid fire questions
For a closer look at David’s work, visit his site, davidapplebaum.com. Or you can follow him for inspiration on Facebook or Instagram.
For more Construction Disruption, listen on Apple Podcasts or YouTube
Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn
This episode was produced by Isaiah Industries, Inc.
Intro/Outro:
:Welcome to the Construction and Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of design, building and remodeling.
Todd Miller:
:Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of building and remodeling by interviewing some of the top movers and shakers and disruptors who are impacting our great industry. I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. Today, my co-host is Ethan Young. Ethan, how are you doing today?
Ethan Young:
:I'm doing good today, Todd. How about you?
Todd Miller:
:I'm doing well also. I took a couple of days off, so the wife and I have been kind of hanging out at the lake for the last few days, so it's been very nice. So it's all good. Well, let's go ahead and jump right into it. I'm kind of, I'm very excited about today's guest. I think this.
Ethan Young:
:Oh, we do want to mention real quick, the challenge words.
Todd Miller:
:Ahh, my mistake.
Ethan Young:
:Just so the audience can be aware, we are going to, we have each picked out a word that we're going to try and squeeze in the conversation somewhere. So keep an eye or keep an ear out, I guess for those.
Todd Miller:
:We have some interesting challenge words. Thank you for that reminder, Ethan. I always forget those and it's even highlighted right on my paper. So thank you. So let's jump right into things today. Our guest is David Applebaum, based in Los Angeles. David is known, even though this is something he doesn't necessarily gravitate to, but he's known as Architect to the Stars. He has done work for all kinds of famous names over the years, as well as a ton of other folks. But some of the folks he has worked with have included Cuba Gooding Jr, Diane Keaton, Bob Hope, Frank Sinatra, Rupert Murdoch, Quincy Jones, and like I said, many other well-known names. But interestingly, he's also been the host of National Geographic series American Mansion. David, welcome to Construction Disruption. Thanks so much for joining us today.
David Applebaum:
:Thank you, Todd and thank you, Ethan, for having me here. Todd, where was my invitation to go with your wife and you on the water? Come on.
Todd Miller:
:Well, maybe maybe this summer. You know, right now the lake is nice, but still it's March in Ohio, so it's a little bit chilly out there.
David Applebaum:
:I'll let it go.
Todd Miller:
:Maybe this summer.
David Applebaum:
:That sounds like a good excuse. We're okay.
Todd Miller:
:Sounds great. So, David, we were introduced to each other by Caroline Blazovsky, who is known as America's Healthy Home Expert. We had her on an episode a few weeks ago, but I also then realized that we have another mutual friend in Eric Goranson of Around the House. I'm curious, though, can you tell our audience, you know, even though I realize this isn't something that you necessarily throw around a whole lot, but how does one become Architect to the Stars? Tell us a little bit about your own background in history.
David Applebaum:
:I hate to say it, but the operative word, this is not the word of the day, but that is luck. I mean, certainly you have to have the talent and you have to do the work. But it's like so many other things in life. It's being in the right place at the right time. And quite honestly, frustration can sometimes lead to some kind of luck that you weren't expecting. And I did really well in graduate school and after my thesis, I had quite a few job offers from some of the famous architects here in Los Angeles. And, for some reason, it didn't feel right. And so I said, okay, well, let me get. This will kind of give you a little bit of a key to how I operate. I was like, okay, that's very nice, but who are you really? Can you give me two or three of your buildings to look at so I can get a feel for what it feels like to be in your buildings or what it's like to work for you? And this was a little while ago, and modernism was not quite as popular as it is now. And three of the firms had something to look at in Los Angeles, and two did not. And of the three, two of them only had one building and they were all over town. And I'm driving miles and miles to get from one to the other and then passing by all these traditional homes and buildings. And I'm thinking, I'm in a really small pool by limiting myself here. I wonder what would happen if I worked for a traditional architect. And so I then did some research and found who I thought was the best in Los Angeles. And he wasn't well known unless you knew. Nowadays there's that saying, what, if you know, you know, if you know, you know. It was so funny, I was actually having dinner with one of my classmates who was going to be working for a famous decorator. And I decided to work for Edward Grenzbach and we were talking and it was a Beverly Hills restaurant. And we're having a conversation about should we? It seems like a better idea. And this guy two tables over, walks over and says, If you have a chance to work for Ted Grenzbach, you take that job. And I thought, well, there's a sign. And it was really through him that I met everyone. You mentioned my Frank Sinatra job. That all started, it's funny how many things start with a fight. I became friends with Caroline over fights, which I can get into later on. But I walked into my first day at the Grenzbach office and he says, Here's what I'm going to have you work on. And it was a modern home in Malibu for Georgia Frontiere, who owned the Rams at the time. And which funny enough, after all of that, when she divorced Dominic Frontiere, Dominic asked me to do his house later on and of a lifelong friendship with the guy who wrote the Twilight Zone theme. So our telephone conversations were interesting, but the point is he showed me this modern structure and said, So what do you think? And I like an idiot. I said, Do you want to hear what I think? Or do you want me to tell you what you want to hear? He said, Oh, no, I want to hear what you have to say. Well, this is modern. It's all you architects go, all you learn is modern. I didn't want to learn modern, but it was like, Well, if you move the door to the left, I think you'll get a better view of the ocean. When you walk in, you'll get more surprise. And he just rolled up the drawings and he said, This is my office, not yours. It's your first day. How dare you? I'm gonna give you a traditional house, but it's not ready. So I've got a little project for you. And I said, as you know, as a transition, I said, okay, so do you get starstruck? And I said, What are you talking about? He said, It's a train room for Frank Sinatra. And it was like, Oh, I just spent two years living in New York where everything was Frank Sinatra. And I was a huge fan. You know, I never met him. I just worked with the decorator on this. But I came up with an out-of-the-box idea that they really liked. And I won't tell you the circumstances that led to it, but my old boss and Ted had a little issue and they decided not to hire him to do the next project. And the decorator said, Hey, remember the guy who did the train room? And that's how I got that job. So if that isn't, you know, serendipity and luck, I don't know what it is. And I mean, how else do you set that up? I don't know.
Todd Miller:
:Right, yeah. So, at the risk of sounding really stupid here, I do have to ask a question. What's a train room? Because I do not have a train room. Maybe I need one, I don't know.
David Applebaum:
:No such thing is a stupid question. I love that. Frank Sinatra was a huge fan of model trains.
Todd Miller:
:Okay.
David Applebaum:
:And if you've ever seen The Big Bang Theory or Young Sheldon, you know that basically when he was a kid, Sheldon's parent's garage was the train room, and Frank even created the city of Hoboken, which had a train station. And it was, I only saw pictures of it, but it looked really cute. And I remember at one point on the beach house, he turned to Barbara and said, Where's my train room? Where are my trains? She said, they're safely tucked away. You learn things about clients. And the first time I actually met Frank Sinatra face-to-face. I went to the house and I knocked on the door and I was pretty nervous because I wasn't sure what I was getting into. I actually called, this was when cell phones were the size of a brick. And it didn't fit in my briefcase in one piece and called the decorator and said, This is Frank Sinatra. Is this is a good idea. She said, If he likes you, he's your best friend. There's nothing he won't do for you. If he doesn't like you, just be charming. He'll like you, don't worry. And so I walk in and I'm talking to his wife, Barbara, wearing this beautiful red dress and a macaw matching red right behind her. He wasn't even in the room. And all of a sudden, I felt the humidity change in the room. And I looked at her with my eyes wide open and mouthed, is he behind me? And she just did one of those side nods and I turned around and there he was in a cashmere robe, blue silk pajamas that were the color of his eyes, and he did not look happy. What's this guy doing talking to my wife? And I put my hand out and she jumped up and got between us and said, Hey, this is David Applebaum. He's the guy that did your train room. And he immediately, just from that moment on, he exuded warmth, the radiance of love that came from him. Smartest man I've ever met, to be honest with you. And he shook my hand. This is how you know he's smart, because I don't think he really knew who I was. But he just shook my hand because he knew it was okay and said, Big fan. And I melted and the point of the story is he then looked at me and said, How long have you been here? I said, About 10 minutes. He said, Can I offer you a drink? And I said, Well, you know, you don't know me well enough yet, but I do a lot of talking. So a glass of water would be lovely. And it was there when the warmth went away. You could just see the hairs on his arm.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, no.
David Applebaum:
:And he looked at me again and he said, David Applebaum, I thought you were a good architect. Don't you understand how awful water is? It rots wood, It rusts metal, and fish shit in it. I'm going to ask you again. Can I offer you a drink? And I hate scotch, but that was the only thing. It was like, Don't say scotch. Like I was hitting puberty, Scotch, please. And he walked me to the bar and then I realized this man is a consummate host and the most important room in the house to him is the bar. And I treated it like a religious pulpit.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
David Applebaum:
:When I designed it, which is that's another story for I don't know how much time we have. So there's the, I have a great story about starting construction in concrete. And I have another great story about cooking with him. He was, I know that he's a big shot. I mean, when I started talking to him and said, So what's your budget? Because that's a very important question. And any architect that doesn't and isn't responsible about it should be slapped. And I said, Like all of my clients, I hate to ask you this, but we have to talk about money. What is your budget? And he just looked up in the sky and said, Do you hear that? And I thought it was going to be a helicopter and they were coming to get us. I said, I don't hear anything. He said, Somewhere in the world they're playing one of my songs. I don't think we have to worry about the budget. Inside my heart is going, Oh my God, no budget. There ended up being a budget, but I was doing backflips inside.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, my goodness, that's good. Well, so I have to ask you, we do want to hear some stories? Which one's more interesting, the concrete construction or the cooking story?
David Applebaum:
:Well, they kind of go hand-in-hand, to be honest with you. So I had really just started my career at the time, and I was doing something that I thought was so smart. I would walk around with a box of Ziploc bags.
Todd Miller:
:Okay.
David Applebaum:
:And go. I thought I'd walk around the construction site and I'd pick up washers and other things like that, so it would look like I was so OCD, the contractor had to pay attention to everything. And the contractor at the time is, I will never find a concrete contractor like this one ever in my life. This guy had formwork that looked like cabinetry.
Todd Miller:
:Hmm.
David Applebaum:
:When I did my own house, I made him do my foundation. And I remember the inspector came to me and said, You're an architect. And I'm looking at these forms, and I'm telling you right now, there will be certain things that I'll just say, Tell me who's doing it. If it's somebody like this and I know who they are, I'm just going to sign it. Don't worry.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
David Applebaum:
:This guy was that good, and he's laughing at me saying, I know what you're doing, David. Don't worry, I'm going to do a good job. And all of a sudden this white Rolls-Royce drives up to the job site top-down, four guys, you couldn't fit a fifth. I'd never, Sopranos had not been out yet, but I saw four guys that all looked the same. Slicked back hair, broken nose, pockmarked face, shiny suits, skinny ties. The guy gets out of the passenger's side, straightens his tie, he looks at the gathering group of us and says, So who's in charge? And I'm thinking, Uh oh, in my mind, I'm thinking, did I did I say something to Mr. Sinatra that was going to get me in trouble? And as I'm going backwards, he goes, Is the architect here? And once again in my puberty voice, I said I'm the architect. And he says, We understand one of the neighbors is complaining about noise. Would you be so kind as to point this in that person's direction?
Ethan Young:
:Oh.
David Applebaum:
:Now, nobody complained about the noise. The next door neighbor on one side did say, Look, I'm in entertainment. I usually get home around midnight, I get up at eight. You have every right to build. I don't want to get in the way, but just can you do the quiet stuff until eight in the morning? Because that's when my alarm goes off. No complaint at all. Nobody said anything on the job site, but somebody must have looked. He said, Thank you. They got in the car, they backed up. They went 50 feet to the next driveway. They pulled in, all four guys got out.
Todd Miller:
:Okay.
David Applebaum:
:They all walk it up. They knock on the door.,They let themselves in. And I don't know if 5 minutes or 5 hours passed, but we're all aghast. We're all standing there, our arms entwined, waiting for a chance to see what was going to happen. And lo and behold, they all walked out. They get in the car, they back up, they backed towards us, and the passenger guy said, We've reached an understanding. You can make noise whenever you want and drove out. And I'm thinking to myself, Did I just see what I thought? And then I remembered, Mr. Sinatra is that guy. You know, he would meet each one of us and in 2 minutes know exactly what our button was. I'll bet he called central casting up, and he just called, you know, four guys and just said, Hi, we work for Mr Sinatra. Are we okay? Thank you very much. And then left. Two months later, I'm at the house. And he says, Hey, David, you hungry? I said, I'm Jewish, I could eat. He said, Do you like sausage and peppers? I said, I do. So in this kitchen, this is a big deal for me. I like to be in people's houses. I like to see how their closets are laid out, what colors they have, what their artwork looks like. I like to see how they live. I like to see how they relax, because that way I can design the proper house for them. So I was very interested more than anything in watching him cook. Was he going to have somebody from the staff do it? But he goes to the refrigerator, he pulls out two Ziploc bags, one with peppers, one with onions already chopped up. So he didn't have to do that. He goes to the pantry. He pulls out this authentic Italian olive oil tin, puts it in a frying pan, heat it up, puts in the onions, puts in the peppers, sautees, has a little salt, pepper. Goes the refrigerator, pulls out a white paper wrapped bag, pull some sausages out, breaks them up, puts it in, mixes together, puts it on a plate, gives it to me and says, So what do you think? And I took a bite and I said, I'm not kissing your ass, but this is the best sausage and peppers I've ever had in my life. He said, You want to know the secret? I said, You know I like to cook. Yeah. What's the secret? He said, The the sausage gets flown in from Hoboken every day. And then I thought, Yeah, those weren't central casting people, okay.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, wow. Good stuff. Good stuff. Well, let's kind of... I'm kind of curious. I mean, you're you got your finger in a whole lot of things and certainly pulse on the architectural industry. How has post-COVID, how has the post-COVID world impacted architecture? It has to have changed customer's state of mind and approach and things? Have you seen anything different?
David Applebaum:
:Yes, we have. See, this is a really multifaceted question that I don't know if we'll know the answer to it for a while, but there's a couple of things going on all at once. And it's COVID and it's also media. And by media, I mean television and social media. We've decided to make stars out of people like the Kardashians and whoever's on HGTV.
Todd Miller:
:Mm hmm.
David Applebaum:
:And when HGTV started getting popular, all of a sudden, these cottage barns started popping up everywhere. And it's not really a native look in Los Angeles, but it's not a native look in a lot of places. It's not a native look in Texas.
Todd Miller:
:Right.
David Applebaum:
:Where I'm from. But yet I see it everywhere. And throw into that the financial situation where so many flippers got into the business. Twenty years ago, when somebody would call me, they would call me because they wanted to move to a different neighborhood or they want to expand their house, but a real estate or make have a larger house. And the realtor would show them 20, 30 houses. They'd pick two or three they like, call me, and I would give them recommendations. Now, the 20 or 30 houses they looked at are already done. So there isn't as much work for architects, which makes architects produce work at lower fees. And there are some architects that are almost giving it away. And there's so many clients that will say, Okay, you've come highly recommended. What do you charge? And they care more because we now live in an Amazon instant society where you don't care about quality, you care about cost, and can you get it now? And somebody who says, and I say, well, my fee is X. They'll say, Well I know somebody can do it for half that price. What you end up getting when you hire an architect at that price is somebody who's rushing through the project so much, they're not giving you something of quality. They're not giving you something unique. They're not giving you something that works for you or the site. They're using a canned plan or worse, they'll produce a floor plan that doesn't match the elevation, that doesn't match the section. And it's a simple dumb box and there's no thought behind it. And I don't know about you or most of your listening audience, but I can't work that way.
Todd Miller:
:Mm hmm.
David Applebaum:
:I once asked one of my employees, who is in Los Angeles. They add a new layer to the permitting process every year, and they added a new low-intensity development permit that had to be obtained. And I had spoken briefly with one of my former employees, and I asked him, I called them later on. I said, Hey, can you give me some information on how to do this effortlessly? He said, Let me send you some drawings. But before I do, promise me you won't make a comment about it because I only got paid $10,000. So for $10,000, I got a new baby. I took it, but it's just a box. And I know even if you got $10,000, you would have done something much more elaborate. So, no, no judgment. But here it is, let's discuss it. So I find that post-COVID clients demand you do much more work for much less money, are much higher-maintenance. And as most restaurant tours will tell you, most shop owners will tell you the clients are very, very, very high maintenance.
Todd Miller:
:Hmm, interesting.
David Applebaum:
:And I just think it's the, and I don't think it's their fault. I don't think that the people are necessarily rude, mean, and short. They're just, there's a level of angst going on right now. I think if you ask teachers, I heard a kindergarten teacher tell me their kids used to walk in with so much wonder and innocence and they're so jaded and high maintenance at five. So I hope this goes away. I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's society. I don't know if it's, I don't know it. I don't know if people are frightened about the economy or or their neighbors. But it's a little concerning. I know that wasn't exactly what you were asking me, but.
Todd Miller:
:No, it's good.
David Applebaum:
:But it's, I'd like to find a way for us to have a little more hope entwined with a little more positivity and patience.
Todd Miller:
:I think that's really interesting. And I know that, I've been at this a while, about 40 years, and I know I have seen these ebbs and flows and it tends to kind of go with the economy a little bit. But I definitely have seen these periods of time where consumers just don't trust anybody. And, you know, that tends to manifest in them being very difficult. I think you actually hit the. The nail on the head with that one.
David Applebaum:
:I think it's a lack of trust or a lack of being able to trust someone to be there for you, whether that be your architect or your fireman or your accountant or your bank.
Todd Miller:
:But the good thing is it does tend to go in cycles. So, you know, eventually I see a turn around. But you're right, this is one of those things that time will tell, that's for sure.
David Applebaum:
:I'm sorry I put this show on a little bit of a downer right now, but yeah, well, I think that's why. I mean, I'm luckily at a place in my career where I can try to weed out the awful clients who don't really care, because then we're not wasting each other's time. I mean, you thanked, that was very nice in the introduction. Frank Lloyd Wright, said a client said to him, You know, of course you're famous, all your clients are rich. And he scowled and said, I don't care whether I'm doing a chicken coop. If the client is open to doing something really special, I'm in. He would have said it a little more elegantly. But that's the way that I feel.
Todd Miller:
:Very interesting. I know, I think it was a student of Frank Lloyd Wright's. A guy by the name of Louis Sullivan designed a bank in my hometown. And there's a story that he came and he sat on the corner and he sketched something out that didn't look at all like what a bank should have looked like in 1920 or whenever this was. And he said, Well, that's it, that's what I've designed. That's what I envisioned for this corner. And it's one of the most noteworthy buildings in the state at this point, just really something.
David Applebaum:
:Louis Sullivan was actually Frank Lloyd Wright's mentor.
Todd Miller:
:I thought I had that wrong.
David Applebaum:
:And I actually have more respect for him than Frank Lloyd Wright. And I have a lot of respect for Frank Lloyd Wright, but Louis Sullivan saw things that nobody else saw. But was a little ahead of his time.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, as soon as I said that, I thought, Oh, man, I don't remember which one it was. So thank you for clarifying that. And so it would have been before 1920, probably.
David Applebaum:
:When you said one of his, you know, one of his devotees I thought, Oh my goodness, I'm not going know who this guy is.
Todd Miller:
:Well, good deal. Well, so our audience here on the show consists of architects and also contractors, builders, remodelers. I want to talk a little bit about architects first. What would your top advice be to a young architect? I mean, how do they keep themselves sharp? How do they make sure that they keep delivering the best possible value to their clients?
David Applebaum:
:Boy, that's, and that's a brilliant question because it's so funny when you're an architect, you're really a jack of all trades. You need to know a little bit about so many different things. You know, it's so funny. Somebody was asking me if the tools that I use now as an architect and I still use a lot of the same tools that I started with. And I think a lot of the I, I sometimes wish that I could spend some time teaching at an architecture school because with the advent of the computer, we have people, so... And it takes a lot of expertise to get really good at using a computer. But we've forgotten our roots and what really makes design work. I remember when I was in architecture school noticing how buildings follow what the design mechanism is at the time. I mean, a lot of the Renaissance work was, they built models out of wood and they built models out of stone. And so you have these intricate, thick, masterful works. And when I was in art school, postmodernism was in and people were using chipboard, which is very thin cardboard as a model building technique. And most of the buildings looked like they were made out of cardboard when they were built because that's what they were using. I, I do use my computer, but I also sketch I have a, a something called a drafting pencil, which is not not a mechanical pencil. It looks like a number two pencil, but it's got a very soft, thick graphite center, which which makes it a little bit less accurate, but much more design-oriented. And then to be honest with you, there is not a project that I do that I don't build a model for because we work in a three dimensional field. And if you've ever seen an M.C. Escher sketch, you can see how you can draw a three dimensional object that isn't really telling you the truth. So I remember I did a house and how it worked from the front elevation to the side elevation was never quite the way I liked it. And I remember as it was getting built, I realized, Oh, I didn't see how this went with that. And so I've been building models ever since. I now, I use even a very, very thin poster board, because when I was out of graduate school, I worked on a remodeling of a Frank Gehry building that nobody knows about because it was an office building in Baltimore. And he did it as a favor and he didn't want to do the renovation. So he pawned it off to one of our professors who hired me to help them on the project. And I'm looking at the drawings and I could not understand them. And I said, Is it okay if I build a model of this existing space inside and outside because I don't get it? And he said, Sure. And so I built the model, and then we started working on the expansion. Frank Gehry stopped by the office to see how we were doing. And he walked in and said, Oh, this is interesting. You're working from model. And my boss said, Yes. And he said, Whose idea was this? And he looked and pointed to me, and he came over to me and said, We didn't do one sketch when we designed this building. We did it all in model. How did you know? I said I had no idea. And then he went through how they used models for everything he was telling me. So Knoll had a line of furniture that was cardboard, which really came from. There were design teams showing Frank Gehry what they should do for X Project, Y project. And while the office staff and students were sitting around, they had stacks and stacks and stacks of corrugated cardboard. So they started making chairs, benches that then became chairs. They became elaborate chairs. And the people from Knoll came over to say, let's talk about this table that you designed, that we're going to sign a contract. They said, What's this cardboard furniture, is it? We're just having fun. And they said, Oh, we think we can sell it. And it became a marketable line for a while. It was very expensive.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, I remember it. Yeah, yeah, I remember.
David Applebaum:
:So, I just, the answer to your question is, I hate to be poetic, but I'm not going to give you a specific tool. I'm going to say your best tool is your mind. Stay curious about what the latest technology is, because all my clients now want those accordion doors. You used to put in glass, then you had sliders, and now you have these big folding accordions and they're wonderful and I love them. But as great as that is, what you really need to do is be curious about why am I going from one space to another and what's the best way to do that? I often tell my clients, you call that a door knob, I call it a handshake that welcomes you into the next room. And if you can think on that level, you can break down every element of a house or a commercial space or an institutional space in a way that inspires and makes a person feel comfortable. I hate it when you go into one of those houses that has a two story entry for no reason and you feel like this Lilliputian speck and you're being invited to someone's home, shouldn't you be welcome? Unless, of course, you're the tax auditor, then go away.
Ethan Young:
:No, I think it's really interesting, like you said, to think about it in like a almost a symbolic, almost a psychological, you know, how does this make the person feel? How does it impact their lives?
David Applebaum:
:I'm doing a house in in Houston, Texas, where Hurricane Harvey flooded entire neighborhoods that had never been flooded before. So in order to get a FEMA loan, you have to follow certain rules. The main one being the first floor is actually elevated to the 500-foot floodplain. And what's below that must be concrete, steel, glass, stone, no wood, no paint, no sheetrock. But something permanent and positive so that you can, if it floods again, you can spray it with germicide and then be done with it. And what most people do is just take a typical Monopoly-style token and put it on top of a plinth. Basically, they take a Monopoly house and put it on top of the thimble and they have a steep staircase and now your front door is way up high. Like you're one of those French guards in the Monty Python and the Holy Grail movie that's hurling cattle at you and boiling oil saying, We will not let you in. And that's how I got the job, because it's somebody that I knew, who she and her husband called and said, We're interviewing architects. What should we say? And I said, Tell them to tell you how you're going to create a welcoming home that your neighbor wants to borrow a cup of sugar from in this house. Because this is a neighborhood still and nobody had an idea. And so and it took me a long time to get to there, but I was able to come up with this idea of creating a lobby on the first floor that had an elevator and a spiral staircase, but it had a front door on the street. So you felt welcome. And then the first floor floats up above it. And it's, I'm very proud of it. I think it's really lovely. It's getting built right now.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
David Applebaum:
:But but I had to think of it from a, I couldn't just do a house and put it up, but the same old house. I told you before, I can't stand when people use that same formula over and over again. Now you're taking the formula and making a 50-foot-tall house with the front door 8 feet above the ground. I just, it just breaks my heart. So I'm sorry that I didn't really answer your question as to, Hey, do this tool, do that tool. My advice is try harder. Think a little more broader. Open your mind. Be a human, give a gift to your client that entwines them with society and neighborhood and feeling like a human.
Todd Miller:
:I love it. Use your own giftedness and talent and react and respond. Give your clients something that's going to be different, love it.
David Applebaum:
:You know, Todd, I'm doing all the talking. I think it's about time you told me something.
Todd Miller:
:No, no, that's not how this works. You completely missed it. So one of the things that, we are happy to answer any questions, but one of the things that I hear you talk about is the fact that even though for a good architect, their fee may be higher, there's ways that they actually save the client money by making up for those fees in other ways. I would love to hear a little bit about what that means to you. And I guess, furthermore, how do you as an architect, convince the client that, yeah, it cost you a little bit more, but here are ways that we're going to save or here are the ways that you'll get payoff in the in the long run?
David Applebaum:
:God bless you, Todd. That is such a great question and regretfully, I can't. I will tell you some of the things that I tell my potential clients, and I will still get a phone call a year later saying, Oh, we didn't realize you were telling us the truth when you were giving us what the budget really would be and what we could do for the price. And so we hired this guy that promised us he could do it in X amount of dollars and we're framed and we're already at the price that you told us it will be. And we hate it, it's ugly, but we thought we were getting what you paid for and we wouldn't get a beautiful David Applebaum because in the end, I end up being less expensive than other architects, and it's because I put more time into my work. My best example of that is, I was doing it. I'm sick of dropping names plus there's an NDA. So I did a house for an Academy Award-winning actor, and he didn't have a huge budget. He had a big budget for what most of us would consider a budget. But for these guys living in the nicest parts of town, it wasn't the biggest budget. And but anyway, so I said and I asked what I asked Frank Sinatra, what's your budget? He told me. And I said, If you want a greenhouse, it's going to be a 6000-square-foot house. If you want a standard house, it'll be 8000 square feet. I think I can fit what you want in 8000, I said. And even though it's not certified green, you know I went to school during the energy crisis, the gas shortage and all that. I know all these passive ways that I think actually are better energy-wise. Then later on, maybe we'll talk about the fight I got into with Caroline, about how I don't like zero energy houses because they have toxic air inside. They're so sealed. There's mold problems, there's air problems. And she was like, I agree with you. And then we started talking about how we would do a house or a commercial space in a way that would be energy efficient and healthy. And that's when we became like best friends, that day. So I was kind of telling the same thing to him. But anyway, so I was doing this 8000-square-foot house and the house was pretty much done. And I drove up to the job site and this guy in a suit is pulling out. He stops, he reverses his car and he gets out and says, You're David Applebaum, aren't you? And I said, Yeah. He said, I'm I forget his name. Vice President of Great Republic Bank, which is the bank that gave loans to all these huge houses all over Los Angeles. He said, you know, for the last 15 years, you have been my favorite architect, but today I hate you. And I said, What? So first of all, I I'm so embarrassed that I'm no longer your favorite. What happened? He said, Well, let me tell you something. We gave this guy a loan for $200 times 8000 square feet. That's $1.6 million. You don't have an 8000-square-foot house. You're the smallest house I've given a loan for. And you've got not just two kid's rooms, You've got three kid's rooms and the maid's room and you have his his and her's closets and you just you know, you have a mud room. You have a great room that's attached to the kitchen and dining room and a living room. I don't have a house that has all the amenities that you have that isn't a minimum of 12,000 square feet. So I said, come with me. And we went to the construction trailer. I took a piece of tracing paper because that's one of my old school tools that I always bring. And what we measured in it was 7998 square feet. And he said, I don't get it. How did you get 12,000 square feet into 8000 square feet? And I said, go to those 12,000-square-foot houses, walk through it again and tell me how many hallways there are. I spent weeks extra because my client only had a $2 million budget, so I had to do 8000 square feet and it was frickin impossible. But I found a way to make that 8000 square feet work. And as you're telling me, it's 12,000 square feet worth of house for 8000 square feet. And he said, I was so scared because you cannot get a loan in the middle of construction. It's impossible. And I was thinking, he's got 4000 square feet times, 200 square, $200 square foot. He needs another million dollars. He's not going to get another million dollars. Not only did you save him that much money on construction, less maintenance, less air conditioning, less everything, less furniture to replace. He said, You've saved your client at least $2 million over the next five years. Does your client know that? I said, What am I going to do? He said, You can tell him. So that's one way. And then also you get a better house. I've got a neighbor who I was getting my taxes done. Turns out my neighbor was doing a house. But he'd started before I became a neighbor. We met and he's doing a house and there's a view of the ocean from his house. So you'd think that he would have all these open rooms that look at the ocean. But no, we hired a design build firm that made him fear that if they didn't hire him, they would go so far overbudget. He's got a living room that looks at the ocean. His kitchen does not. All it would have taken was some low walls and rearrangement in his kitchen and his dining room would have views of the ocean. I bet Icould have even gotten his master bedroom to have had a view of the ocean. But all he's got is a living room. Even if his house that he's living, going to live in and the one that I designed were the same price. Tell me which one will sell faster for more money and be worth more.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, absolutely.
David Applebaum:
:I'm going to say there are a lot of architects, and especially the ones that say, Oh, I can do it for this discounted fee. You're going to get a box. It's not going to, and you're going to probably have extraneous square feet. And also, I have, in all these years, figured out ways to save money in construction because I've done it a bunch of times that I'm paranoid, that I'm costing my client too much money. So I'm always at the jobsite saying to the concrete guy, to the steel guy, If you were to do this again, how could I do it better or for less money? You got to have an architect who does that. I can't be the only one. They ask those questions and try so hard to make it work.
Todd Miller:
:It's good stuff. So one of the things you made me think about. So I think all of us as kids grew up, you would end up in your house where you lived and you'd always think, Is there a secret place behind one of the walls in my house? Can I go over here and push a button? And suddenly a whole new room opens up and you realize that, no, that space isn't there. But the reality is, a lot of houses are designed with a lot of extraneous space that doesn't accomplish anything.
David Applebaum:
:I think you watched too much Adam West Batman.
Todd Miller:
:I probably did. Yeah, that's that's probably true.
David Applebaum:
:And then we all did, we all did. Did you rearrange furniture in your house as a kid? I did.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, yes. Even cut out the little, you know, to-scale pieces and move them around the house. Oh, yeah, sure. So I want to accordion a little bit. Talking about architects, talking a little bit more about builders, and in particular the architect-builder relationship. What are some of the positive hallmarks or the hallmarks of a positive relationship between architects and builders? And how do you as an architect, help to encourage that?
David Applebaum:
:Wow. Dude, you ask great questions Todd. I'm loving I mean, I'm having such a great time. Thank you, by the way.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, this has been fun.
David Applebaum:
:You know, the secret is a little bit actually, I just realized in what I just told you. I, first of all, if you're not having fun, you don't do good work. So there's lots of ways that I vet my contractors. And one of them, because sometimes there's contractors I worked with before and we have a little bit of a shorthand like they remember we did it so-and-so house. Yeah, what id we did? And then and this is based on what we built before they'll say, Oh, but what if we do this?And nine of ten times their idea is way better than mine. And I'm willing to say that's way better than mine. And I say to the to the owner, Do you know what this guy just came up with? This is brilliant. But see, that's, so it's kind of threefold. The first thing I do, if especially if it's really somebody I don't know. In the specifications, I'll always throw in a little paragraph in a very kind of unknown. Yeah, we had a little earthquake over it, not here, but there. So we, so I'll put a little, little blurb in in the specifications with something like it's the duty of the contractor to supply the architect with a case of imported beer on the third Thursday of every month that ends in a Y. And because that then you find out if they actually read the specs because they.
Todd Miller:
:Love it.
David Applebaum:
:Because if they say, What's your favorite beer or I don't know if we're going to have that many, you know, months that end in a Y?
Todd Miller:
:Months that end in Y.
David Applebaum:
:Then okay, it's I said, You're lucky I didn't say days that end in Y. And we have a nice little chuckle and I know that they are diligent and that they are detail-oriented and they read. So that's the first thing. The second thing is if I don't know the contractor, I have all these secret methods. I don't know if I should share all of them. But, you know, it's easier than you think because. I'll say it, one of the ways that I used to do it more than anything else is there's a stoneyard here in Los Angeles. And if you get sand or stone or veneer or whatever, you pretty much get it through that. And he's since retired, so I can't use it like I used to. But I knew a guy who was like their top salesman and I would call him and I would say, So what do you think of so and so contractor? And if they said, never heard of them, I was wary. If he said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know who they are. Yeah, they're good. That was good. If they said they have an account here, a credit account, they don't have to pay cash for it. We'll bill them. They were good. They've been around a long time and because the contractor basically has just two jobs. Schedule like a wizard, because things change.
Todd Miller:
:Sure.
David Applebaum:
:And have excellent relationships with your subs and the way you have an excellent relationship with your subs and get the best subs is they know you're going to pay them. What clients do not realize is that their roofer will buy all this stuff and then hire guys to put it on top of the roof. Then he'll bill the contractor, then the contractor will bill the client, then the client will pay the contractor. Then the contractor months later pays the subcontractor. A contractor that pays on time or even a little bit before, those are the ones that get the best subs because they're getting paid as they're putting money out. So if you're the best electrician in Los Angeles, you want to work for the guy that pays you the best. And so why would you work for somebody you don't know? So if this supplier or a sub that you really trust says, I love working with this guy, then they're good. And then the third thing, and this is the most important thing in my opinion, when it's when somebody gets the job, I say, Look, you have no ego. I have no ego. The client and this project is where all of the ego goes. If I don't know everything, I cannot draw everything perfectly, it's impossible. And you bid it in a month, you can't know everything. I know that. So you have a question, ask me. If something goes wrong, don't go running around like a chicken with his head cut off, call me. By the way, those architects that only charge half as much, if you call them because their elevation doesn't match the floorplan, they know it. They'd don't answer your call. You call me, I pick up the phone and I either give you an answer or I'm at the job site within 24 hours. And nowadays with FaceTime, ust show it to me, and then we fix it. And quite honestly, the fix turns out better than the way I thought it was going to be in the first place. And then I don't run to the client saying, Hey, the contractor screwed this up and I fixed it. I say, Hey, the contractor found this issue that we were able to come up with an improvement for. Look at this. And I expect the same from you. I don't want you to throw me under the bus because I'm not going to throw you under the bus. So we are here to give the client the best job in the shortest amount of time for the least amount of money. I mean, I just had one of my contractors call me and say, Look, the client wants to change this thing with the doors. You know, you do those little doodle sketches. I know exactly how it goes. We've done this before. Just do one of your doodle sketches, because I can't. Just so I can show the client this is what it's going to look like. Okay? You know how great that is. I hope that answers your question.
Todd Miller:
:Well, it sounds like, you know, a lot of times, even after the project is underway and started, you still find yourself on the job site. I'm not sure that's typical of a lot of architects. Is that just something you really love, is that hands-on and seeing they actually come to reality?
David Applebaum:
:I don't know. That's a good question. I only know what I do and I, I mean, I have clients that move in and six months later say, you know, I'm out of town, Here's the alarm code. Would you help? Because I still get invited to dinner at a lot of my client's houses. I've maintained friendships with quite a few of my clients, you know, not all of them, but certainly if I see them, there's hellos and hugs and things like that. That's and that's even the way that I bill. A lot of clients front end their billings and I have my billing running through a small amount for the entirety of the contract.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, wow. That is different, love it.
David Applebaum:
:Because I just I, I'm there. I like, you know, I like, you know, maybe it's because I don't want all that mad money. But I, I just think that a major reason why I do that is because it it reminds them that I'm still there. And if they have a question or they have a problem, they know to call on me and I'm still there.
Todd Miller:
:Well, I'm kind of curious. So, you know, of course, the name of our show is Construction Disruption. And we look at a lot of things, technologies and products that are kind of disrupting things. And as you look back on your career and even look out into the future, anything come to mind as far as things that have really been major game changers in either design or construction or things that you think are going to be game changers and new trends that we're seeing that are going to change things down the pike the next 10, 15 years?
David Applebaum:
:Besides that, I would love the game changer to be a little more patience and pleasant conversation. Yeah, that's interesting because you say that to me and I remember the first thing that blew me away and it was kind of when I started, was there's this product called Bituthene. Which was a, you know, an elastic membrane that you could punch a nail in and it was still waterproof. I have to tell you, a lot of, so funny, I just had this conversation with Caroline this week because she said somebody said, Hey, you'd like living in this house. And she sent me the pictures and said, What do I think about this? Because it had this polymer material cladding on the outside and we spent 30 minutes discussing how we did not trust the waterproofing and the water weeping and that there wasn't condensation behind the exterior cladding. And it's a beautiful material and it clicks in and all. But I just, I don't know how it can both be waterproof and breathe. If it's, I mean, she lives in the Northeast and, you know, there are days where it's 10 degrees outside, but it's 70 degrees inside. And that wall in between is going to have condensation. I'm, I don't, if there's a brand new material, I kind of don't like using it until it's been on the market for at least ten years. I remember when I was a kid, there was this kind of prefabricated plaster wall. I don't want to mention any names because they may have fixed it or something, but every single house or commercial space that used it ended up with two or three inches of mold inside the walls after ten years. And we're so interested in fixing one thing, like let's save another, you know, let's add another insulation factor of of 3%. But what that ends up doing is creating hazardous air or mold or the fasteners were not exactly specified correctly. And now they're rusting and falling apart. You know, it's it's I live in earthquake country and there's nothing better than a type five wood structure in an earthquake. Because wood works both in compression and tension and it's connections which are usually nailed or allowed to rotate around the fastener. So even in a massive earthquake where a couple of timbers or a couple of studs or a couple of connections might fail, the rest of the households together and you're safe,.
Todd Miller:
:Right.
David Applebaum:
:I've been told that there are a lot of buildings in downtown Los Angeles that an earthquake has put a little bend here or a little pucker there. And, you know, you can stand on a Coca-Cola can and it'll support you. But you know what happened when you put your two fingers from both sides and hit it at the same time?
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, go down.
Ethan Young:
:Yeah.
David Applebaum:
:So I guess I'm an old-fangled guy.
Todd Miller:
:Well, and it's interesting. I mean, over the years I've had lots of people come to me with, you know, Hey, Todd, I see this new roofing product or this new wall product or window product or whatever out. And you know, a lot of times I can look at it and I can kind of make my guess as to what's going to happen. But usually my feedback is, hey, before you go that direction, wait ten years, let's see whether the product is still made or if it's a class-action lawsuit. And then you can make your decison.
David Applebaum:
:I'm so relieved that I'm not the only one. You you manufacture metal roofing. Tell me something. The metal roofing that you made 40 years ago that were assembled correctly with the right pitch and that beautiful assembled on site. They still work, don't they?
Todd Miller:
:Absolutely. Yeah. And it's all about being able to have some allowance for the thermal movement of the metal, to some degree for the movement of the structure as well. But no, I mean, I can well, in fact I can take you to communities near where we live and show you metal roofs that date back to the turn of the century, not the 21st century, but the turn of the 20th century. And they're still there.
David Applebaum:
:I'm from Texas. There are so many buildings out in the prairie that have metal roofs that are still standing from back then and is there, come on. Is there anything more romantic than rain falling on a metal roof? The sound is beautiful. And yeah, it's... Which you then bring up. Look, I get DIYers and I think there are a lot of things that we can all do ourselves. And I do a lot of things myself, but I won't touch electrical at all.
Todd Miller:
:I'm there with you, I won't either.
David Applebaum:
:I won't touch plumbing unless it's really simple. I put a reverse osmosis under my sink, that I could do. Took a couple of trips to the hardware store to get back and a real plumber would have had it the first time. But like, yeah, I could probably put up a metal roof myself. But if I really wanted to save money, this actually goes back to your architecture thing. If I want to save money over the next 50 years, I hire you.
Todd Miller:
:Well, and we see so much of that in the trades too, that a lot of times, I'll always kind of tell the story about the contractor who tries to make up his profit margin by hiring cheaper labor. And, you know, that's that's the last guy you want.
David Applebaum:
:Yeah.
Todd Miller:
:I'd rather pay more upfront to know that he's going to hire reliable labor than have him making his, trying to make his profit that way.
David Applebaum:
:Sometimes even, well, I had a project manager and you'd be shocked at how little with all the experience they came with, they totally. I don't even want to get into it. It was, after a month of them working on the project. It's funny, I actually after this, I made my office smaller, not bigger. Frank Gehry had said to me, You know, it's funny how architecture works. In your twenties, you work for nothing and your thirties, you're still working as a slave, but now you got some responsibility. In your forties, you kind of figure out what you're doing and maybe you go have a couple of side projects and then maybe if you're if you're lucky enough, you put a shingle out and then in your fifties you're back to working for nothing again because you're, you know, you, you're trying to get it just right. Your sixties are when you get your voice, figure out what you're doing. And it's your seventies when you're so old that you get more calls than you know what to do with. And, but what I was thinking about that when I had this person who in a month had ruined a project. They, you know, if you draw a first floor and a second floor, the staircases should be in the same place. Because if you're not, you'll go up from the first one, hit your head on the ceiling. And if you're on the second floor, you'll go right and drop into the kitchen. And so I had to fire this person and thought, It's gonna take me a month to fix it. I fixed it in a day. And I realized, you know what? This is my name out there. So from now on, the project architect is me, and I'll only take as much work as I can stay on top of, because that matters to me more than making a big profit.
Todd Miller:
:You know, that's a great criteria for someone to ask who may be interviewing an architect as well. I love that.
David Applebaum:
:I don't know of another architect who's got a a practice with as much experience as mine that doesn't. I remember I interviewed with somebody who said, Oh, I want a famous modern architect. I said, Well, my work is as good as theirs. And they're like, Yeah, but they get coffee table books. Well, that's because I don't want to put your my profits from your job in a coffee table book. I want to put my money into going and making sure your house is great. I said, you realize you're going to go to so-and-so famous architect with the coffee table books. He's never going to look at your project. You're going to get some guy who's five years out of school, you know, as your project architect, because he's got too much work to really pay attention to it.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, Yeah. Good point. Well, David, this has been fantastic. I've enjoyed it thoroughly. We actually are close to wrapping up what we call the business end of things. Curious, is there anything we haven't covered yet that you'd really like to share in today's episode?
David Applebaum:
:I will rather ask for another opportunity to talk to you because there's way too many.
Todd Miller:
:We gotta do that.
David Applebaum:
:You guys are great. Sorry, I'm from Texas. Y'all are great. I had a lot of fun. This has been... I've been here long enough. I've lost my y'all. And I don't mean the sailboat.
Todd Miller:
:So, were you in the Houston area or where did you where did you grow up at then?
David Applebaum:
:Yeah, I so, my father is from New York. You can pretty much tell in my energy, but he had the opportunity to go to Rice. At that time, Rice was free.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
David Applebaum:
:And it was a great school. And when I was born, there were 200,000 people in Houston. By the time I went to college, there were over 2 million. It just grew with the advent of air conditioning plus the Space Center plus plus the energy business going through there. It was just a bustling town that he knew if he stayed, he'd have some success and he was right.
Todd Miller:
:Well, Houston's one of my favorite cities, so yeah, I love hearing that. Good stuff. Well, before we close out, I have to ask if you're willing to participate in a little something we call our rapid fire questions. So David, this is seven questions, maybe serious, maybe silly. All you have to do is give a short answer. Our audience needs to understand.
David Applebaum:
:I'm incapable of a short answer. You know that.
Todd Miller:
:We take long answers, too. We really do. So our audience needs to understand, if David agrees to this, he doesn't have a clue what we're going to ask. So up to the challenge of rapid fire?
David Applebaum:
:No, but I'll do it anyway.
Todd Miller:
:Awesome. Thank you. Well, we're pretty harmless. We;ll, we'll rotate asking. You want to ask the first one, Ethan?
Ethan Young:
:Yeah, yeah. I can start with the first one. Okay, question one What do you like to do in your spare time?
David Applebaum:
:Hike. I live in a sun-drenched, even though it's been raining so much this year, and it's made me very sad. But the sun is out today, and there's nothing I love more than going on at least a 30 minute walk. I put on my headphones, and sometimes I, if I'm busy, I'll do my save my emails for that. But just to get outside and reconnect, it's so grounding and inspiring at the same time.
Todd Miller:
:Well, thank you for spending this time with us rather than being out hiking like you could have been today, so.
David Applebaum:
:Who says I'm not?
Todd Miller:
:Well, okay, well, maybe so. Question number two. If you find yourself trying to survive a zombie apocalypse, who is?
David Applebaum:
:Sorry, I'm just, I actually had a client ask me to design a zombie apocalypse-proof house so I couldn't help it but laugh.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, my goodness. Well, who is the one person you would definitely want on your team?
David Applebaum:
:Wow, ooh. If there was a zombie apocalypse? You know, that's a very tough one, because my first thought is, I hate to say this, but I'm wondering if I want, I've got so many things I'm thinking of. I want to invite somebody like Emeril Lagasse, a great chef, so that no matter where we are, we can eat well. And also, you know, quite honestly, he, or that guy from Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives, Guy Fieri, who I adore. They're also kind of plump. And, you know, if you need to you can have a meal out of them. But in reality, I probably want somebody who could run really fast and is strong enough to carry me on a piggyback.
Ethan Young:
:There you go.
David Applebaum:
:So I need to think, I don't know any Navy SEALs, but I'd probably take a Navy SEAL.
Todd Miller:
:That's different because I would have tended to think I want someone who runs really slow. We've had answers for that question every place from grandmothers to Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I love your answer.
David Applebaum:
:Well, early Arnold Schwarzenegger, maybe, but not now.
Todd Miller:
:Well, they did make that caveat.
David Applebaum:
:Yeah, Yeah, he does have a lot of motorcycles, so that might help.
Ethan Young:
:Alrighty, question three. Okay, this is a fun one. What is one product you bought in recent years that was a game changer for you? So it could be something small, something big, whatever.
David Applebaum:
:Wow, that's actually a tough one. What did I buy that was a game changer? Well, I'm a carnivore. I love eating a really great steak. And a friend of mine recommended that I get one of those vacuum sealers. And you can age, you buy a steak and you vacuum seal it and age it for two weeks and it becomes this wonderfully tasty prime. Even if you bought choice, it comes out like a prime aged steak. And that's been pretty great. So that's the first thing that come to mind. I also got some shoes that have really nice insoles for my hikes and it's a game changer. And Costco has a really good four-ply toilet paper that has spoiled me as a game changer.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, those are great answers. What's the brand of you said boots or shoes? What, I'm curious what the, let's give a shout out to them.
David Applebaum:
:Well, I mean, I hate to be a you know, let's all climb on board, but they were Nike's.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, wow. Awesome.
David Applebaum:
:So, you know, it's so funny. For a while there I was very much into Skechers because they were the only ones that had a memory foam sole. And boy, that was so great. But then they wore out. I did so much walking, I guess after like six months, I couldn't wear them anymore. I found that the Nike's with their new foam soles last much longer.
Todd Miller:
:I'll have to check those out because I wear Skechers because of the memory foam. And you're right, six months and I'm getting a new pair.
David Applebaum:
:Yeah, I remember when I first got them, I was going to a Dodgers game with a friend and I said, I'm having so much fun walking from the parking lot because I'm walking on air. And then like, you know, we went to another game months later, they said, So how are those shoes? Ehh, not so good this time.
Todd Miller:
:Okay, question number four. I think it's my turn again. Yeah, I get the fun ones. If you had to eat a crayon, what color of crayon would you choose to eat?
David Applebaum:
:Well, wouldn't the normal answer be lime, just in case. Lime green, wow.
Todd Miller:
:That makes sense.
David Applebaum:
:Now that I'm thinking about it, though. Lime green is good because it's such a happy color.
Ethan Young:
:Mm hmm.
David Applebaum:
:But then you eat. I don't know about you, I remember my childhood. I ate plenty of crayons, and they all taste the same. I might be tempted to want to say white, because I would, because at least it looks like it tastes.
Todd Miller:
:Well, that's the second person who's said white because it wasn't going to mark their teeth, actually, so that no one would know that they ate a crayon.
David Applebaum:
:I'm very proud. Next time you see me, who knows? I might have a crayon stuck between my teeth and there will be no one will know, especially if it's lime green.
Ethan Young:
:Alright, next one here. Nothing major here, but what would you most like to be remembered for?
David Applebaum:
:Wow, that's really simple. Good father.
Todd Miller:
:Awesome. Love it, love it.
David Applebaum:
:That's, you know, when I told you I made my office smaller, it wasn't just because of the quality of the work. My now ex-wife and I had just become pregnant, and I didn't want to be a workaholic. And I'm proud to say that I never missed a game, a concert, a poetry reading when he was growing up. And I wouldn't trade that for the world.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. Okay, next-to-last question.
David Applebaum:
:Really? That's what, I thought there were a bunch of them. Okay.
Todd Miller:
:Well, no, we're already there. This is the sixth question already. So this one you may have to think about, but I think it's kind of a cool question. What non-family friend has been a regular part of your life for the longest time? So someone you're not related to who has been a you know, we talk a time or two a year part of your life. Oh, he's thinking.
David Applebaum:
:No, I'm not thinking. I'm actually trying really hard not to choke up.
Todd Miller:
:Aww, at this question, yeah, I understand.
David Applebaum:
:And it's only because there's actually been two and they're both gone. I'm sorry to say that two really special people are no longer with us. I, my college friend Bruce, who I am the luckiest guy in the world because he passed away unexpectedly on a Sunday. And for some reason I was stuck on something at work on a Friday. And I instead of, I'm big on if you can't fix it, take it, walk away from it and you'll come back to it. And I called him and we spoke for about 2 hours and when it was all we were coming to the end. I said, I got to get home, my wife's expecting me and his daughter had a volleyball game and, you know, he said, Hey, you know, you were really there for me at some specific times in my life that were really important and helped me through. And I love you like a brother. And he said, I love you, too. Let's talk again soon. And two days later, he was gone.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
David Applebaum:
:So and then I had a friend. One of the first really great projects I worked on was the Esprit store in West Hollywood, which is now a CVS drug store, which is such a shame. But the guy in charge of all visuals at Esprit was this six foot two, 300-lb Chinese man, Phillip Kwok. And he flew in from Hong Kong because the place was beautiful and it was just so dingy. There's something about it. It wasn't working. And the owner of the of the Esprit stores, the Esprit line the company, the clothes, and his wife, the designer, her best friend was Philip. And he didn't want to call Philip. He didn't want to admit he needed Philip. And all of a sudden, this big, huge guy comes in one evening, just flew in, he's got jet lag. And I shook his hand. And then the next morning, because it was kind of design build at the end and I was there every single day. I would get there at six in the morning and present drawings to the builders that were going to do stuff, spend the whole day walking the site, looking at what was wrong, and then spend up until 11, 12:00 at night drawing it so that I'd have whatever I needed for the people the next morning.
Speaker:
:And there he was in a corner of the building with a little assistant, and he was starting to disassemble and reassemble everything. And you know, when you're in the desert and it's sunrise and it's dark behind you, but in front, there's a little peeking light. And with each second that the sun rises and the light creeps into the ground as it gets closer and closer to you, as he walked, it was just like that. It was just the transformation was so clear. And after it was about 10 or 11:00 in the morning and he'd already done like almost a quarter of it, it was, I could tell. And I walked over to him and I said, You stand up right now. You stand up and look in my eye, looking really upset and frustrated. I said, because I have to tell you, he stands up, this huge guy and he's got fear in his eyes. I say, Because I have to tell you that this space, what the hell do you think you're doing making it look so good? I have to hug you. I cannot believe this place looks as good with you fixing it. And I hugged him and we became the closest of friends. We spoke, those were days before cell phones and emails made international communication. So we would fax each other.
Todd Miller:
:Oh yeah.
David Applebaum:
:Because that was only, you know, $0.20. And we would, so he was in Hong Kong and I was in Los Angeles. And we had, we would end all of our conversations and faxes with the term touching the water. Because it was like, if I touch the water here, it'll get to you and you can feel me. And he would do the same. And it was, he was a very good friend. He just, he ended up wanting to be a restaurateur. And I designed his restaurant in Hong Kong and he would come here and buy jeans and fifties furniture and send it to Hong Kong and, you know, sell it to his friends. It was, I miss them both a lot. And thank you for a trip down memory lane. And I'm sorry it was a little maudlin.
Todd Miller:
:No, thank you for sharing some personal stuff.
David Applebaum:
:Real life, happy memories entwined, with you know with sad.
Todd Miller:
:A little bittersweetness.
David Applebaum:
:Yeah.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
David Applebaum:
:Is there another person that we can have some laughter on?
Ethan Young:
:I was gonna say, this one's a little, a lot more lighthearted.
David Applebaum:
:Thank you, Ethan.
Ethan Young:
:Okay, so when you're eating a bagel, do you prefer the top or the bottom half? Like the one with all the seeds on it, or do you like the the bigger part on the bottom?
David Applebaum:
:Well, I happen to like pumpernickel bagels, which don't really, but that's a, that's a genius question. Because even without the seeds, I like the top because the top is usually a little fluffier on the inside, even after you toast it.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, I'm very much a top half.
David Applebaum:
:So I'm a top, yeah. What about you, Ethan? We, we know Todd likes the top, and I like the top. Are you going to be contrarian?
Ethan Young:
:I am a little bit, because I like that the bottom is, like, a lot thicker. It's a lot more like, I don't know, not meat. You know what I mean? But a lot more like substance to it. I do like the bottom.
David Applebaum:
:Well, then you cut yours differently than mine, Ethan, because I always cut the top. See maybe because I like the top, I make the top thicker. So I get what you like.
Ethan Young:
:Could be. Could be, honestly.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. Well, this has been a pleasure. So we need to recap our challenge words. I don't, I'll tell you, this conversation was so fun. I just lost track. I didn't even see them get used. I know, I had to use. I used the word accordion, I worked in. David, you used my word a couple of times, so you beat me out at that. I think he had the record for the most uses of challenge words.
Todd Miller:
:He does.
David Applebaum:
:Well, and I also threw in, I also threw in. I threw in yours that I gave you and I threw in, we had a secondary one that I threw in as well that. You actually, I don't know if you realize you used my word once.
Todd Miller:
:I did?
David Applebaum:
:You did. It was great. I thought, ooh, sneaky Todd.
Todd Miller:
:I didn't even realize it. So, Ethan, you had the word major. Did you work that in?
Ethan Young:
:Yeah, I did. I said right before one of my rapidfire questions. I said 'nothing major.'
David Applebaum:
:Yes.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, yeah.
Ethan Young:
:Yeah.
David Applebaum:
:And you, you used both, you used my. Are we allowed to say them now?
Ethan Young:
:Yeah, yeah.
David Applebaum:
:So Todd, you. So yes, Ethan you used major once. Todd, you used major once and used accordion once.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah.
David Applebaum:
:I don't know if you realized it.
Todd Miller:
:I do know I used accordion. Yeah, I don't, who knows on the other stuff.
David Applebaum:
:No, you did.
Todd Miller:
:But you got it, you got entwined in there at least once. So good job.
David Applebaum:
:I think I got it in there about five times.
Todd Miller:
:I was going to say, Yeah, I think you did.
David Applebaum:
:And I said major once, and I said accordion once.
Todd Miller:
:You're an overperformer, overachiever, good stuff.
David Applebaum:
:Yeah, well, that's why I'm single.
Todd Miller:
:Well, that can be the next episode maybe too. I don't know. But we'll do another episode. We'll look forward to that. So again, this has been a real pleasure and eye-opening. If folks want to get in touch with you or just follow what you're up to, what's the best way for them to do that David?
David Applebaum:
:Well, I'm on Facebook, as both David Applebaum and David Applebaum Architect. I'm on Instagram. I think I'm David Applebaum_art. you know what? I'm going to look it up, but I'm also David at DavidApplebaumArchitect. So let's see, I am my official account is DavidApplebaumArchitect and I post pictures of some of my projects and things that I find that are important and inspiring on occasion. I also have a personal one, which is a DavidApplebaum.official, which is that's got more of my own house. Funny things that I see. It's a little bit less architectural, a little bit more, if you can believe that I can be silly, a little silly.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, we love that. We'll put all that stuff in the show notes as well so folks can see it and easily link and so forth, so.
David Applebaum:
:Thanks, this has been a really one-in-a-million experience for me. You're, I have to say, you're prepared and you're funny and you're insightful and have a lot of perspective and you really move well on your feet, the both of you. And this is, it feels like we've only been on for 5 minutes and I've really enjoyed every second of it.
Todd Miller:
:Well, you did a great job and it's a lot of fun for us, too. And so thank you so much for being the guest today. And yeah, that's what we always strive for, is to try to be listenable and fun, but yet deliver some great information. And you did that, so thank you. And I will also thank our audience for tuning into this episode of Construction Disruption with architect David Applebaum, Architect to the Stars. Please watch for future episodes of our podcast. We're always blessed with great guests just like today. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Until the next time we're together, keep on disrupting and don't forget to have a positive impact on everyone you encounter. Make them smile, encourage them; two simple yet powerful things we can all do to change the world. God bless and take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.
Todd Miller:
:Intro/Outro: This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building products.