Shownotes
Ever wondered how beer brewing could revolutionize vertical farming? Mat Halter, founder of TerraFerm, is turning brewery waste into a game-changing resource for indoor agriculture.
Mat Halter, a plant scientist turned entrepreneur, shares his journey from researching biofuels to developing an innovative system that captures CO2 from brewery fermentation for use in vertical farms. His patented technology promises to significantly boost crop yields while reducing carbon footprints.
In this episode, Mat discusses the challenges of bringing a new idea to market, from conducting initial experiments to seeking partnerships with breweries. He reveals how his spinach trials resulted in an astounding 89% increase in yield, far surpassing typical carbon dioxide enrichment results.
We also explore the intersection of craft beer culture and sustainable agriculture, Mat's approach to team building as a first-time founder, and the potential for this technology to transform both the brewing and farming industries.
If you're curious about innovative solutions in sustainable agriculture or the unexpected synergies between different industries, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to discover how Mat Halter is brewing up a greener future for vertical farming.
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Key Takeaways
5:37 Early career in plant science and biofuels
10:43 Initial idea for carbon dioxide enrichment
15:36 Patent process and prototype development
21:40 Current status and plans for pilot project
27:51 Challenges as a first-time founder
32:32 Building a team and seeking mentorship
36:07 Potential brewery partnerships and marketing
38:38 Where to learn more about TerraFerm
Tweetable Quotes
"The advantage we have is, in theory, a never-ending supply. So we can use carbon dioxide enrichment at whatever set point we want - high, low, medium, whatever. We can take it as high as metabolically the plants will allow."
"What am I missing? Again, I am a first-time founder. This is the first business I've started. What don't I know? I don't know what I don't know. It's a constant battle to learn more about strategies for starting a business, for seeking funding."
"San Diego is a great place to be for beer. There's a lot of small to medium range breweries out here. Very high density. I'm hoping to make contact with a couple of them and eventually find one that sees the vision I have for this and wants to come along."
Resources Mentioned
Website - https://www.terra-ferm.com/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mathew-halter-082043a3/
X - https://x.com/TerraFerm_Ag
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/terraferm_agtech/
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Mentioned in this episode:
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
Indoor AgCon 2025
Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
Speaker:Autonomous weeding robots dominated, and John Deere made 2 acquisitions in
Speaker:3 months. A food company, not an equipment maker, bought a
Speaker:robotics startup to protect its own supply chain. The deals are
Speaker:accelerating, the money is moving, and the winners are already separating from the
Speaker:pack. If you're investing, building, or buying in this space,
Speaker:you need the full picture before your competitors get it. The 2025
Speaker:Precision Agriculture Intelligence Report From iGrow News is now
Speaker:available. Get your copy today at
Speaker:igrownews.com/precision. Implementing
Speaker:strategies to optimize that system. You know, they're using it during
Speaker:peak hours, they're using it sparingly, they're using it for a handful of hours per
Speaker:day. Because with indoor farming, temperature control,
Speaker:HVAC systems, like that air is circulating constantly. So if you're going to maintain a
Speaker:certain level, you're going to be pumping in a lot of carbon dioxide. So It
Speaker:would be a good strategy to optimize your usage, right?
Speaker:Use it when you best need it, when you can maximize its effect.
Speaker:So the advantage we have is,
Speaker:in theory, a never-ending supply. So we can use
Speaker:carbon dioxide enrichment at whatever set point we want— high, low, medium,
Speaker:whatever. We can take it as high metabolically the plants will allow.
Speaker:Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations
Speaker:with fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech
Speaker:visionaries. Join us every week as we dive deep into the
Speaker:world of vertical farming with your host, Harry Duran.
Speaker:Vertical Farming Podcast, episode 157. Regular listeners to the
Speaker:show, welcome back. Thank you so much for all you do to support the show,
Speaker:whether you're sharing episodes on socials, passing them along to a friend
Speaker:in the agtech space, or just discovering us and coming back because
Speaker:you've enjoyed your experience here. I really appreciate everything you're doing to
Speaker:support the show, whether you've been supporting us from episode 1 all the way to
Speaker:current day. I appreciate you. If this is your first time listening, I'm positive you're
Speaker:in the right place, as this is the show where we interview fascinating CEOs and
Speaker:founders of the leading vertical farming companies from around the world. I'm your host, Hari
Speaker:Duran, podcasting since 2014 with my first show, Podcast Junkies,
Speaker:and also co-founder of the AgTech Media Group with my co-founder,
Speaker:Sefar Ashard of iGrow News. In case you missed last week's episode, we
Speaker:spoke to Rick Vangeel of Harvest Today, who shared exciting updates on
Speaker:their vertical farming tech and their expansions— and their expansion
Speaker:plans. Rick's passion for innovation and commitment to making vertical farming more
Speaker:accessible shines through as we discuss the evolution of his HarvestWall
Speaker:system. Please check that out if you haven't done so already. This week, we have
Speaker:the pleasure of speaking with Matt Halter. He's the founder of TerraFirm, a company that's
Speaker:pioneering a groundbreaking approach to carbon dioxide enrichment in vertical
Speaker:farming. Matt shares his journey from plant biotechnology researcher to
Speaker:entrepreneur, and he details how he developed the system to capture CO2 from
Speaker:brewery fermentation for use in indoor ag. We dive into the
Speaker:challenges of starting a business in this new industry, the importance of building a strong
Speaker:team, and navigating the complexities of fundraising. Matt's story is a
Speaker:testament to the power of persistence and innovation in the face of uncertainty,
Speaker:and his insights into the potential environmental and economic benefits of this tech are
Speaker:truly inspiring. If you're interested in the intersection of sustainability,
Speaker:ag, and entrepreneurship, then this episode offers a fascinating glimpse into the
Speaker:future of farming. 5 key takeaways that I want you to pay
Speaker:attention to in this episode. Number 1, validate your idea through testing and data
Speaker:collection. Matt conducted experiments comparing CO2-enriched and
Speaker:controlled growth chambers and gathered qualitative data to prove his
Speaker:concept's effectiveness before seeking funding. 2, protect your
Speaker:intellectual property early. This was a huge insight and
Speaker:eye-opener for me. Matt filed for a patent way before pursuing commercialization,
Speaker:which gave him a foundation to build his business on and potential protection from
Speaker:competitors. 3, seek complementary partnerships to strengthen your
Speaker:business model. Matt's actively looking for brewery partners to provide CO2
Speaker:for his vertical farming system creating a mutually beneficial relationship.
Speaker:4, build a diverse team to fill knowledge gaps. As a technical
Speaker:founder, Matt recognized the need to bring in team founders with expertise in areas like
Speaker:produce marketing, sales, and indoor farm operations. And
Speaker:lastly, 5, leverage industry events and networks to gain visibility and connections,
Speaker:something I'm a big proponent of as well. I do have one ask for you.
Speaker:If you are enjoying this episode and other past episodes,
Speaker:Please share this with a friend. It's one of the best ways we can grow
Speaker:this show. Forward them this episode, send them to the website
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. Anything you do is going to be greatly
Speaker:appreciated. And as always, this episode and all episodes are full of great
Speaker:takeaways, but as a listener, I want you to focus all your energy on our
Speaker:conversation. And rest assured, you can always visit verticalfarmingpodcast.com to
Speaker:read the full show notes for each episode, which includes all guest links as well.
Speaker:Okay, before we get into this uninterrupted conversation with Matt, a few words from the
Speaker:amazing partners that support this show. Vertical Farming Podcast, episode
Speaker:157. Regular listeners to the show, welcome back. Thank you so much for
Speaker:everything you do to support the show, whether it's your second show
Speaker:or your 157th. I appreciate everything you do to support this
Speaker:podcast over the years, and I hope you continue to do so.
Speaker:If this is your first time listening, I'm positive you're in the right place, as
Speaker:this is the podcast where I interview fascinating CEOs and founders of the
Speaker:leading vertical farming companies from around the world. I'm your host, Harry Duran,
Speaker:podcasting since 2014 with my first show, Podcast Junkies,
Speaker:which is now celebrating its 11th year, and also the co-founder of the
Speaker:AgTech Media Group. I hope to see some familiar faces at Indoor
Speaker:AgCon as I get ready to pack my bags and head out Monday as
Speaker:of this recording. In case you missed last episode, I spoke to Rick
Speaker:Langille for round 2 on the podcast. He's the CEO of Harvest Today,
Speaker:and he shared exciting updates on their vertical farming technology, and expansion
Speaker:plans. His passion for innovation and commitment to making vertical farming more
Speaker:accessible shines as we discussed the evolution of his Harvest Wall
Speaker:system and all the advancements they've been making. I'll be
Speaker:happy to see and connect with Rick at Indooricon as well. This week,
Speaker:I have the pleasure of speaking to Matt Halter. He's the founder of TerraFirm,
Speaker:a company that's pioneering a groundbreaking approach to carbon dioxide enrichment.
Speaker:Matt shares his journey from plant biotechnology researcher to entrepreneur,
Speaker:detailing how he developed a system to capture CO2 from brewery fermentation.
Speaker:That's a hard word, brewery, for use in indoor ag. We
Speaker:dive into the challenges of starting a business in a new industry, including the importance
Speaker:of building a strong team and navigating the complexities of fundraising, something
Speaker:that I'm a little too familiar with. Matt's story is a testament to the power
Speaker:of persistence and innovation in the face of uncertainty, and his insights into the
Speaker:potential environmental and economic benefits of this tech are truly
Speaker:inspiring. If you're interested in the intersection of sustainability, ag, and
Speaker:entrepreneurship, then this episode is definitely for you. I love
Speaker:highlighting 5 takeaways, and I want you to listen for
Speaker:them in this episode, and I think they're really important ones.
Speaker:Number 1 is validate your ideas through testing and data collection. Matt
Speaker:conducted experiments comparing CO2-enriched and controlled growth chambers
Speaker:and gathered qualitative data to prove his concept's effectiveness before seeking funding or
Speaker:partnerships. 2, protect your intellectual property early. Matt
Speaker:filed for a patent before commercialization, which gave him a foundation to
Speaker:build his business on and potential protection from competitors.
Speaker:3, seek complementary partnerships to strengthen your business model.
Speaker:Matt is actively looking for brewery partners to provide CO2 for his vertical farming
Speaker:system, creating a mutually beneficial relationship. 4,
Speaker:build a diverse team to fill knowledge gaps. As a technical founder, Matt
Speaker:recognizes the need to bring in team members with expertise areas like produce
Speaker:marketing, sales, and indoor farm operations. And 5, leverage
Speaker:industry events and networks to gain visibility and connections.
Speaker:He plans to attend conferences like Indoor AgCon to meet potential partners,
Speaker:learn from industry experts, and raise awareness of this innovative concept.
Speaker:I'm looking forward to connect with Matt as well. If you're enjoying this episode, I
Speaker:want to ask for you, please share this episode with a friend. It's one of
Speaker:the best ways to grow the show. And if you've enjoyed this episode or any
Speaker:of our past episodes, feel Please go ahead and click the subscribe link so we
Speaker:can grow the viewership on this channel as well. You can always visit
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com to read the full show notes for each episode, which includes
Speaker:summaries, timestamps, guest notes, guest resources, and all
Speaker:guest links as well. Enjoy my conversation with Matt. Don't miss the premier event of
Speaker:the year for everyone involved in greenhouse operations, controlled environment agriculture, and
Speaker:vertical farming. Indoor AgCon, now in its 12th year, heads
Speaker:to its new location at the Westgate Las Vegas from March 11th to 12th,
Speaker:2025. Join grower operators, investors, startups, tech leaders,
Speaker:academics, government officials, food service retail suppliers, and more
Speaker:from across the USA and over 30 other countries. Explore an
Speaker:expanded expo floor filled with the latest product resources and business
Speaker:solutions, and gain insights from top industry experts, including CEOs,
Speaker:growers, and investors at this full-scale educational conference.
Speaker:Plus, take advantage of invaluable networking opportunities. The team at Indoor
Speaker:AgCon has been generous enough to provide Vertical Farming Podcast listeners
Speaker:with an additional 20% off off of the full access conference passes.
Speaker:Just use promo code VFP at checkout. Visit
Speaker:indoor.ag and be part of the largest CEA industry gathering in Las
Speaker:Vegas in 2025. So Matt Halter, founder of TerraFirm, thank you so much
Speaker:for joining me on Podcast Junkies. Yeah, thanks, Ari. I appreciate you having me.
Speaker:Where's home for you? I'm in San Diego, just
Speaker:outside San Diego technically, but I tend to just say San Diego because nobody knows
Speaker:where San Marcos is. So I'm in San Marcos, California. It's like 45 minutes
Speaker:outside San Diego. Born and raised? No, I'm
Speaker:originally from Tennessee. So I was born in North Carolina, but
Speaker:moved to Tennessee at a very early age and spent, you know, the first
Speaker:34 years of my life there. Is there anything close to
Speaker:what you thought you might be when someone asked you what you're going to be
Speaker:when you grow up and resemble what it looks like now?
Speaker:No, no, no, no, no. Very far from it. Even if you asked me 10
Speaker:years ago, I've taken a very weird path. And I had no way
Speaker:of seeing this coming. So walk us through, no need to go through the
Speaker:entire CV, but walk us through those early days and then we'll make our way
Speaker:to present day. Sure. Yeah. So like I said, grew up
Speaker:in East Tennessee and I went to college there
Speaker:at a medium-sized regional school in East Tennessee. And after
Speaker:that, went to grad school at University of Tennessee in Knoxville. I
Speaker:was pursuing plant science. plant biotechnology
Speaker:within a plant science department there. So I was working in
Speaker:biofuels at the time. This was like 2009, 2010, and I don't think
Speaker:anybody saw like the Teslas of the world coming at that time. So like the
Speaker:next big vehicle fuel, in theory, the government was really putting all their
Speaker:money on like E85 ethanol-based fuels. So they were dumping a
Speaker:bunch of money into research for that, you know, all throughout the chain
Speaker:upstream and downstream. They were working on developing ethanol feedstocks. Right now there's
Speaker:a bunch of ethanol that's produced mostly from corn though. They wanted to transition away
Speaker:from corn if you're making tons of fuel, you don't want to be dipping
Speaker:into a food crop for that. So you're looking at alternatives. And I was
Speaker:working on switchgrass, just like a native big grass you might see
Speaker:growing on the side of the road if you're driving through the South or the
Speaker:Midwest. And we were working on a wide variety of problems
Speaker:associated with it from a biofuel perspective.
Speaker:Digestibility of the sugars in the cell walls was a big one. I was
Speaker:working on photosynthetic improvement. So I was working on creating a
Speaker:grass that grows more efficiently in the cold, photosynthesizes more efficiently in
Speaker:the cold, see if you can extend the growing season earlier in the spring and
Speaker:later in the fall. So I wrapped that up in
Speaker:2014 or so, somewhere around then.
Speaker:And I kind of did, took a big career turn. My, you know,
Speaker:traditionally my normal path would've been into the big plant biotech, you know,
Speaker:the Monsantos of the world working on crop development and crop improvement. Kind of was
Speaker:burned out in plant biotech at the time and saw an opportunity
Speaker:locally in an industrial fermentation space. A
Speaker:commercialized company there was working on producing
Speaker:commodity chemicals, basically plastic monomers, essentially from
Speaker:corn rather than from petroleum. They had a
Speaker:microorganism that would eat corn sugar, produce these monomer
Speaker:chemicals that could go on to be used to make fibers of all different sorts.
Speaker:So I was brought on for strain development and process development, process improvement in
Speaker:that space. And so I kind of, I was there for about 6 years and
Speaker:kind of became an engineer through training. So
Speaker:Got into industrial fermentation through that avenue and brought out to
Speaker:San Diego eventually for a new opportunity out here again in
Speaker:fermentation process development. I've had a couple roles here
Speaker:since we've came out. We came out, like I said, in 2020, summer of 2020,
Speaker:COVID was raging, and been in a couple roles in
Speaker:fermentation, cell culture process development since then. Where did the
Speaker:initial interest for plant science start?
Speaker:That's a good question. I mean, so I grew up on a farm in
Speaker:Tennessee. My dad was a, you know, he grew up on a farm in
Speaker:South Dakota. When the family was moved to Tennessee, he bought a small farm.
Speaker:It wasn't really, you know, we weren't personally doing a lot of industrial
Speaker:agriculture on the farm, but we were basically renting out land space for like
Speaker:cattle and stuff. But we had a big personal garden and, you know,
Speaker:when you're a kid, a large garden is a farm essentially. And so I grew
Speaker:up working in the garden. And just from a very young
Speaker:age, I was super fascinated with agriculture and plants in
Speaker:general. And that's what led me into like
Speaker:pursuing the graduate degree that I did in plant science, plant biotech,
Speaker:agriculture. So yeah, from a very early age, just fascinated with plants.
Speaker:And obviously if you take it all the way to present day, do you
Speaker:think folks are starting to become more aware of where
Speaker:their food comes from? I mean, naturally if you grow up on a farm, you
Speaker:get that firsthand experience with it. We're on like a slightly
Speaker:bigger plot of land than I'm used to because I grew up in the city
Speaker:and now I'm in Minnesota. So we tried our first pass at the garden
Speaker:last year and it's just fascinating to see stuff that you literally plant as a
Speaker:tiny seed and then you've got these like potatoes and we even tried
Speaker:corn and, but it just changes like your perception. If you just grew up in
Speaker:the city, you're just used to going to supermarket and just assuming that's where food
Speaker:comes from. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, especially in the last couple decades in
Speaker:particular, I mean, I guess you could go back to like the internet, right? And
Speaker:that's when people really were able to take a deep dive into stuff like this.
Speaker:But more recently, I mean, when COVID hit, for instance, like
Speaker:everybody started gardening, right? Everybody started growing their own food. Of course, people were doing
Speaker:it before then. And, you know, to a certain degree, it really exploded at that
Speaker:point in particular. And I
Speaker:don't know, it's also fun. Like people are taking an interest in where their food
Speaker:comes from, and that's important. That's a, you know, a big deal. But it's also,
Speaker:you know, a hobby. It's also a lot of fun. You know, what brought me
Speaker:to it in the first place, you know, it wasn't necessarily a— I don't garden
Speaker:because strictly because I want to know where my food is from. I garden because,
Speaker:you know, I love seeing things grow. Yeah.
Speaker:And I think a lot of people probably relate to that same, to that same
Speaker:perspective. Yeah, for sure. And there's also something to be said about the work ethic
Speaker:of growing up on a farm, because I've heard that consistently from some of the
Speaker:guests that have had that experience as well. Yeah. I mean, for sure.
Speaker:I can't say that I was exactly like, you know, pushing a plow at
Speaker:sunrise. That certainly wasn't my experience, but it was an exciting childhood.
Speaker:I will say that it was a lot of fun. So talk to me about
Speaker:what you knew or understood about the indoor farming space and what
Speaker:around the time that you were working in fermentation. Sure. Yeah. So I didn't know
Speaker:a lot, to be honest. So like I said, my graduate
Speaker:work was in switchgrass you know,
Speaker:improvement. Switchgrass is, you know, not a crop— it's like corn, it's not a
Speaker:crop you can grow under glass, right? So if switchgrass were to have, in
Speaker:theory, made it as this big
Speaker:biofuel feedstock, it would be grown, you know, on farmland
Speaker:much like corn. But when you're working on it as, you know,
Speaker:a research and development subject, you're growing that in a greenhouse. You're not
Speaker:growing it out in the field. You eventually hopefully get to the field, but when
Speaker:you're working on it in a lab, everything's in a greenhouse or in a growth
Speaker:chamber or something like that. So I had experience
Speaker:working in greenhouses. You know, I was in a greenhouse every day for 4 years.
Speaker:I wasn't necessarily managing or operating that greenhouse, but I was working in it. That
Speaker:immediately gives me a certain degree, at least, of know-how of the
Speaker:space. But as far as like, you know, industrial
Speaker:agriculture indoors, really zero. I knew of it
Speaker:adjacently, but as far as experience or expertise,
Speaker:very little. When I started, you know, As I mentioned, my work
Speaker:in grad school was actually, was on photosynthesis, right? So I was working on improving
Speaker:cold temperature photosynthesis. So I immediately became, you know, intimately
Speaker:aware of the mechanisms underlying, you know, plant growth,
Speaker:photosynthesis in general, carbon capture. And so while
Speaker:switchgrass was never going to be grown indoors, I was aware of the
Speaker:strategies that indoor growers use to improve photosynthesis, carbon dioxide
Speaker:enrichment in particular. I understood how that mechanism worked. And so when I
Speaker:transitioned to fermentation, I was working at a
Speaker:very large-scale industrial plant. Like
Speaker:I said, they had a commercialized process that they're using while we were also working
Speaker:on a smaller scale to improve that process, you know, work on strategies for
Speaker:that could scale to the manufacturing scale. You know, we were letting off a
Speaker:lot of carbon dioxide. It was, you know, hundreds of thousands
Speaker:of liters of fermentation material. emitting carbon
Speaker:dioxide had basically nonstop, 24/7, 365.
Speaker:And that's, you know, it was probably about a year in that it kind of
Speaker:clicked on me like, wow, that's a huge waste for something that
Speaker:could be reused for extremely unrelated industry,
Speaker:but could be tapped into. That was the initial ideation. Let's get into
Speaker:like your thought process and share like the origin story and how you came up
Speaker:with the concept for Terraform. Yeah, sure. So I mean, like I said, I was,
Speaker:I was thinking on it at work, basically. And I figured, oh,
Speaker:wow, that could work. That's a cool idea. And just on my free time, I
Speaker:started out, my initial thought was, obviously, somebody's doing this, this
Speaker:is too obvious, it has to have been done or is being done.
Speaker:And so started digging on the internet as thoroughly as
Speaker:possible, trying to find who was doing this, where, and I
Speaker:couldn't find anything. So I was a little bit blown away by that. So at
Speaker:that point, I thought, okay, well, here, this looks like an opportunity. Started doing some
Speaker:design work on what I thought the system would look like. Started talking to
Speaker:some IP lawyers and stuff and bouncing ideas off them. You know, what's the
Speaker:feasibility of getting IP like this? Can you even do this?
Speaker:Because, you know, the system in the patent as it stands, it's nothing
Speaker:really new there. It's not— I didn't invent like a new technology. It's a
Speaker:bunch of stuff that exists all over the place that is just put into a
Speaker:unique sequence. So I didn't know that
Speaker:it would be, you know, I didn't know it would be patentable. I didn't think
Speaker:that it would be until, you know, bouncing several design ideas off of a lawyer
Speaker:and them saying, yeah, this, you know, this has a chance. And so filed like
Speaker:a, and this was before forming the company or anything like that.
Speaker:Yeah. Um, uh, I wasn't planning on pursuing the company if I didn't get
Speaker:any IP behind it. Um, and so in 2018 or
Speaker:so, filed a provisional followed up by a full application. And then just
Speaker:basically sat on my hands. Like COVID hit. I mean, there was a point in
Speaker:Tennessee where I was actively, I had partnered up with a
Speaker:restaurateur in Knoxville who was hoping to open up a new restaurant and brewery.
Speaker:And he thought the idea was cool. And we
Speaker:started working on a business plan to open up this restaurant and brewery. And, you
Speaker:know, I would operate a greenhouse adjacent to it and it would basically be what
Speaker:TerraFirm looks like now, just a singular restaurant brewery. Sure.
Speaker:And, you know, we had a few meetings with folks who could
Speaker:bankroll it and we didn't end up getting anywhere with them. And then like
Speaker:literally like a couple months after our last meeting, COVID hit and
Speaker:we were like, wow, you know, we dodged a massive bullet there.
Speaker:Thank goodness we were not successful because we would've been put out of
Speaker:business. You know, we would've opened our doors the day the world shut down. You
Speaker:know, that was a bit of a blessing in disguise, I guess. And so
Speaker:again, at that time, got the job opportunity out west, moved
Speaker:out here. And, um, again, just sitting on my hands
Speaker:waiting to find out about this patent. I think like the, you know, the patent
Speaker:lawyer was like, I don't even know. The patent lawyer was like, you definitely have
Speaker:a good shot, but I can't say like, there's sometimes when I help people with
Speaker:an application, I'm like, oh yeah, this is a slam dunk. Like, there's no way
Speaker:this gets denied. And with mine, he was like, we'll see. And so.
Speaker:Um, so question there. I didn't want to do anything. Yeah. Just a question
Speaker:there. Did you have experience or did you know of people that
Speaker:had, had had experience successfully filing for patents? Because it's
Speaker:normally not something, you know, I think entrepreneurs, when they get started, there's
Speaker:sometimes so much in go, go, go mode that they just want to get the
Speaker:idea concept validated and they want to try to go to market as
Speaker:fast as possible. So it's interesting that you started with the patent process and I'm
Speaker:curious if there's, you've had some experience with that. Yeah. So
Speaker:I can't say that— I wish I could say that there was like a meaningful
Speaker:strategy behind that, that I purposely decided to do it in that
Speaker:order. I can't say that's the case. I
Speaker:knew very little about, you know, strategic business
Speaker:decisions at that time. And I was really just doing what I thought
Speaker:naturally was the next step. And that happened to
Speaker:be filing for that patent before pursuing anything else. I
Speaker:didn't think that it was, you know, if it wasn't protectable, then I didn't think
Speaker:that I had the, you know, the machine behind me to do anything with it.
Speaker:Um, if somebody could just turn around and do it themselves. So I thought it
Speaker:was a natural first choice, you know, first step. Um, and so that's,
Speaker:that's just the way it happened. There wasn't any design behind that.
Speaker:But, um, so got out to San Diego and, uh,
Speaker:eventually found out that the patent was going to be accepted, which was, you know,
Speaker:very cool. Celebrated that. And then immediately,
Speaker:you know, was kind of hit by like, oh no, now I have to do
Speaker:this thing. And so built a prototype
Speaker:just like, you know, a couple circuit boards. I didn't build it personally. A good
Speaker:friend of mine who's an electrical engineer who knows how to do these things built
Speaker:it for me, but built a prototype capable of
Speaker:controlling a 3-way valve. Basically, it was just like a little CO2 sensor.
Speaker:You can enter in a set point And, you know, when
Speaker:CO2 concentrations are above that set point, it tells the valve one thing. When they're
Speaker:below that set point, it tells the valve another thing. And
Speaker:so I, you know, I wanted to demonstrate it because this gets back to what
Speaker:I was originally saying. Why hasn't this been done yet? You know, this,
Speaker:again, this keeps, this question keeps like popping up in my mind. Like this seems
Speaker:so obvious. Yeah. And even if you go into the scientific literature
Speaker:on carbon dioxide enrichment, you'll find reviews
Speaker:online, multiple reviews online that list out all these different strategies for doing
Speaker:it. you know, comparing and contrasting them. And fermentation off-gas
Speaker:is mentioned in a couple of them. And so of course I dug into those
Speaker:deeply to see where they led and they didn't lead anywhere. They
Speaker:didn't cite anybody who was doing it. They just said, this is a cool resource.
Speaker:This would be a good spot to get your CO2. They didn't actually cite anybody
Speaker:actually doing it. So I have this question sitting in the back of my
Speaker:head. Why isn't anybody doing this? Maybe there's something I'm not aware of
Speaker:that maybe there's a major reason nobody's doing this. When you're tapping into Like,
Speaker:I don't know if you homebrew or if anybody listening homebrews, but if you do,
Speaker:you know, you might be familiar with the smell of your garage when you walk
Speaker:into like an active fermentation, right? You know, it just, it smells like
Speaker:hops. It smells like beer. Yeah. Which would imply that it's
Speaker:not just carbon dioxide coming off that fermentation, right? There's a lot of other stuff
Speaker:in there. Plant metabolites are coming off that fermentation. That was a
Speaker:big thought. Like maybe this is why, maybe if you can't scrub that gas
Speaker:well enough, you know, remove everything of all these VOCs,
Speaker:maybe they mess with the plants somehow. Just one of many big questions
Speaker:that I wanted to address before pursuing it further. Like, okay, so
Speaker:now the IP's wrapped up. Now the next stage is just demonstrate it,
Speaker:see if it works. So that was about a couple years ago now that I
Speaker:started to pursue building out the prototype and bought a
Speaker:couple growth chambers, just like off-the-shelf growth chambers. And we used one
Speaker:as a control, just didn't do anything to it, and used the other one as
Speaker:the treatment, piped in a fermentation system and did a bunch of homebrewing for
Speaker:like 2 months in a row, every 4 days made a batch of like a
Speaker:1-gallon batch of beer, the exact same batch of beer.
Speaker:And— Did you have experience homebrewing? Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, I dabbled for a long time. Like, you know, I started homebrewing, you
Speaker:know, when I was younger and I had since stopped
Speaker:just because it's a, you know, it's a giant, it was a lot of fun
Speaker:when I was 23. Right. But it's a big mess now.
Speaker:So I had a lot of experience homebrewing, but I had not done it for
Speaker:quite a while when I started this project, but it was nice to get back
Speaker:into that as well. But dumped a lot of
Speaker:beer. So, you know, if I'm brewing a gallon once every 4 days,
Speaker:that's, I can't keep up with that. I was dumping a lot of— Yeah, I
Speaker:was gonna ask if you were drinking, you're having a lot of beer parties or—
Speaker:No, no, no, no. It was for the experiment.
Speaker:Dumped a lot of— Quote unquote science. Yeah, yeah. And
Speaker:so yeah, the first test I did was in, was in
Speaker:spinach. I chose spinach because, you know, obviously it's a common table
Speaker:vegetable, leafy green and It's, you know, a
Speaker:common product in the vertical farming space. And most importantly, it's easy to grow in
Speaker:small, like the chambers I bought were not these large industrial
Speaker:chambers you might see at like an R&D facility. They're chambers you're meant to grow
Speaker:things at home with. So spinach was just easy and
Speaker:practical to work with. So ran the trials
Speaker:on spinach. After like 10 days, it was evident that
Speaker:there was a massive effect. Like I could see them, I could see the treatment
Speaker:chamber running away. from the control chamber, which is cool to see.
Speaker:Yeah. But, you know, after 50 days it was stark
Speaker:and, you know, the data analysis I think shows that. I published the
Speaker:results of the trial recently, just about
Speaker:exactly a month ago now. So those are available in a peer-reviewed journal
Speaker:online and the data's fantastic. It looked great. We got
Speaker:an 89% increase in yield across treatment and
Speaker:control chamber. Wow. And any, you know,
Speaker:any yield improvement program is going to be looking for
Speaker:single-digit yield improvement, right?
Speaker:And so to get into the 80, 89 realm, and even if you look at
Speaker:the published data on carbon dioxide enrichment, like there's a lot, there's a lot of
Speaker:academic and industrial data that's available online for spinach
Speaker:specifically. I haven't seen anything that high before. So
Speaker:that was great. It was good to see. And it kind of boosted my efforts
Speaker:in really ramping things up to get this commercialized
Speaker:and get it out there. So you're at that point where you see that stark
Speaker:improvement versus the test. How do you think about deciding
Speaker:where you go from there? Because it's obviously, you know, it's proving, you know, what
Speaker:you wanted to prove, your hypothesis. And I'm just curious now, you
Speaker:know, you've worn so many hats because you've got on your researcher hat, but you've
Speaker:also got on your entrepreneur hat and you're trying to figure out like, What's the
Speaker:appropriate next step? So just walk me through that thought process.
Speaker:Yeah, that's a tough question because again, at this point I'm a first-time founder. I
Speaker:had never founded a business before. Um, so I had been and
Speaker:still am learning everything, you know, doing everything for the first time. Um,
Speaker:so this, you know, this kind of gets back to your question earlier about, you
Speaker:know, why did I decide to go after the patent first instead of doing something
Speaker:else first? And it's like, well, uh, that was just the first thing I thought
Speaker:of. So I'm learning a lot of things, you know, and Certainly about founding a
Speaker:business, a lot of things I would've done differently. Like if you had asked me
Speaker:this question 2 years ago, there's a lot of things I've done since then that
Speaker:I would've done differently. And I'm sure if you ask me that question 2 years
Speaker:from now, I will say the same thing. Like, yeah, I wish right after that
Speaker:podcast, I wish I had done this completely differently. But learning a
Speaker:lot of things the hard way, it's fine. It slows the process down, but
Speaker:ultimately, you know, you do get it done. And so take us into
Speaker:like present day, you know, where are you now and how are things developing?
Speaker:Yeah. So right now, you know,
Speaker:TerraFirm exists on paper right now. I'm a pre-seed company. So
Speaker:what I'm trying to do right now is raise money for a pilot,
Speaker:actively looking for a brewery partner here in the
Speaker:San Diego area that I'd like to put a modular farm on their space.
Speaker:You know, a module, like a Freight Farm style farm on their,
Speaker:in the back lot behind their building or on the, in a side parking lot
Speaker:or something. Yeah. And, you know, tap into their fermentation
Speaker:waste gas and do a pilot for a couple years.
Speaker:And, you know, basically to just
Speaker:validate that there's a market for this, but also to show
Speaker:the entire success of this business model in general relies heavily on
Speaker:partnerships with breweries, right? So, you know,
Speaker:carbon dioxide isn't new. Every vertical farm out there, I would imagine,
Speaker:is doing it. So The advantage that our
Speaker:business has is, you know, the elimination of overhead. It's not a huge
Speaker:overhead associated with carbon dioxide enrichment. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not
Speaker:going to claim that it is. But certainly those who are,
Speaker:let's say, using bottled carbon dioxide, they, you know, they have a big
Speaker:tank on the side of their building and they're pumping it in whenever they need
Speaker:to be. Yeah. Certainly they're implementing strategies to
Speaker:optimize that system. You know, they're using it during peak hours,
Speaker:they're using it sparingly. They're using it for a handful of hours per day
Speaker:because with indoor farming, you know, temperature control, HVAC systems,
Speaker:like, you know, that air is circulating constantly. So if you're gonna maintain a certain
Speaker:level, you're gonna be pumping in a lot of carbon dioxide. So it would be
Speaker:a good strategy to optimize your usage, right?
Speaker:Use it when you best need it, when you can maximize its effect.
Speaker:So the advantage we have is,
Speaker:in theory, a never-ending supply. So we can use
Speaker:carbon dioxide enrichment at whatever set point we want, high, low, medium,
Speaker:whatever. We can take it as high as, you know,
Speaker:metabolically the plants will allow, which again might be a
Speaker:limiting factor for those who are paying for it. We can take it as high
Speaker:as we want, whenever we want, for as long as we want. And,
Speaker:but in order to do so, we're going to need— breweries who are willing to
Speaker:partner with us. And that's really where the whole, that's really where the big risk
Speaker:factor for this business model is, is getting these people to allow us to
Speaker:partner with them. So the way I envision the pilot working
Speaker:is, you know, going after funding for a 2-year runway that allows
Speaker:me to drop a modular farm on a space and
Speaker:get, you know, obviously move crops to product, excuse me, move crops to
Speaker:market, but more importantly, measure the effect that we're
Speaker:having on the brewery's marketability. You know, a big pitch we'll be making to
Speaker:breweries is, you know, there's a bunch of survey data out there, a bunch of
Speaker:published data that you can easily find with a Google
Speaker:that says that, you know, beer drinkers, beer consumers are willing to
Speaker:pay a premium for a sustainable product. So if you're able to
Speaker:tell your, you know, your regulars, you know, your
Speaker:customers that you're actively doing something to cut your carbon
Speaker:footprint, your CO2, rather than being emitted to the air, is actually going towards
Speaker:something tangible that you can literally taste while you're there, are they
Speaker:going to spend more money? Are they going to come back more? So a big
Speaker:metric to be measured for that pilot is the impact on
Speaker:the brewery, not just the impact on crops. Obviously, that will be measured
Speaker:closely as well, but the pilot will be used to
Speaker:most importantly measure our marketability to other
Speaker:partners. And then ultimately, that'll lead to the
Speaker:ability to pursue further funding for expansion.
Speaker:Probably early on, probably more in the modular area.
Speaker:But ultimately, we'd like to, to find a more established
Speaker:partner that we can develop with or develop next to in a
Speaker:non-modular fashion. Yeah, there's so many variables I guess you'd want to
Speaker:measure, especially like, have you gotten to the point where you can see
Speaker:different results with different crops? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker:So the paper that's out right now is, it just focuses
Speaker:on the spinach results that I had. I've done it with a number of different
Speaker:crops, and I've gotten good results with all of them, but a
Speaker:wide variety of results with all of them. And that can be expected, right? I
Speaker:use the same setpoint, for instance, that's something I haven't varied.
Speaker:All crops don't work best at the same setpoints, that's very well known and established.
Speaker:So that's a variable that I haven't tweaked right there. But certainly for—
Speaker:there's a lot of work to do to optimize the system. And, you
Speaker:know, I would love to do that work. But right now I'm just pitching, you
Speaker:know, Yeah. And it
Speaker:obviously comes, as you alluded to, comes with its own set of challenges because there's
Speaker:all the technology involved in capturing the fermentation and then
Speaker:getting it to have success in the farm itself. But then,
Speaker:you know, you get to that point where you do have your crops and now
Speaker:you've got to get into the marketing and you got to get— you've got to
Speaker:figure out, you know, how you're going to actually sell what you're growing. So, you
Speaker:know, what are some of the challenges that you've faced? In terms of all the
Speaker:other challenges normal farms have, it's like you definitely have this extra layer.
Speaker:Yeah. That kind of gets back to another question you asked earlier, you
Speaker:know, regarding my experience in the vertical or indoor growing space.
Speaker:And my answer was not a lot, right? So another important thing I'm
Speaker:pursuing right now is building out a team that can help me do that.
Speaker:So I'm definitely hoping to, when it comes time to start
Speaker:approaching VCs or approaching early funding sources,
Speaker:whatever it may look like, I'm hoping to have a team
Speaker:with me that can tackle, or not just tackle, because it'll be a team
Speaker:effort, but that can bring experience in produce marketing
Speaker:and sales, as well as indoor farm operations to the table.
Speaker:That's another huge task that I'm taking care of right now. Yeah.
Speaker:And I imagine there's a lot of things that you're thinking about. One of the
Speaker:questions I like to ask, and this is for folks that have, you know, established
Speaker:farms and been doing this for a while, but I'm curious, your answer might be
Speaker:different. What's a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?
Speaker:Yeah, sure. A lot of them.
Speaker:I mean, no, I think
Speaker:the toughest question I've had to ask myself recently is,
Speaker:what am I missing? And I kind of touched on that earlier, but I don't
Speaker:necessarily mean it just from a technical standpoint.
Speaker:I talked earlier about you know, about my thoughts about why haven't people done this
Speaker:yet. So there is that, but also what am I missing
Speaker:from the business perspective? Again, I am a first-time founder. I'm a first-time,
Speaker:you know, this is the first business I've started. What don't I know
Speaker:that I don't, you know, I don't know what I don't know. So it's a
Speaker:constant battle to learn more about
Speaker:strategies for starting a business, for seeking funding. What are investors looking for?
Speaker:This is a world that I, I have really no
Speaker:official training in, so I'm learning all this on the side.
Speaker:And it's been a big learning experience. You know, I've got a friend
Speaker:here in San Diego who is, he's been involved with a
Speaker:couple of successful startup VC-backed startups,
Speaker:totally different industry, but, you know, essentially the same at the backbone.
Speaker:And, you know, I was talking with him sometime last year
Speaker:about my pitch deck. And just, you know, tapping him as a resource
Speaker:for how can I do this better? What am I doing wrong? And we were
Speaker:going through my pitch deck actually. And, um, I was going through slide for
Speaker:slide and I wasn't necessarily giving him like the straight up pitch, but I was
Speaker:giving him the gist of what each slide is meant to communicate and what I'm
Speaker:going to be saying and so on and so forth. And I got to a
Speaker:particularly business-heavy slide that I had put together that,
Speaker:um, it became clear, you know, it became clear that I was like, I
Speaker:pumped the brakes when I started talking about this one. And I was, I was,
Speaker:I was a little bit self-conscious and I kind of, you know, it was clear
Speaker:I wasn't speaking confidently and I noticed that and I kind of stopped and I
Speaker:was like, okay, I gotta be honest. Like, I'm a super technical guy. I don't
Speaker:know a lot about this one. Um, I did my best to put the slide
Speaker:together, but I obviously, I need to know this. I'm a technical person, not a
Speaker:business guy. And he stopped me abruptly
Speaker:and said, you need to never say that again. Uh, let me stop you right
Speaker:there. He was, he said something along the lines of, if you come
Speaker:to me and ask for ridiculous amount of money and then say,
Speaker:but I don't really know what I'm going to do with it. I'm not going
Speaker:to write you a check, right? He was like, why would you even consider that?
Speaker:He was like, you need to— Yeah, that makes sense. You know, it was obviously
Speaker:I wasn't pitching to him, but he was like, you need to go back
Speaker:and start over and really get to the point where
Speaker:you don't feel in the back of your head, you know, you don't feel like
Speaker:saying this isn't my expertise when you're doing this. And so that
Speaker:was good. I mean, it was like, you know, he caught me off guard and
Speaker:he gave me a good lesson, but it's probably the best lesson I've
Speaker:gotten in this process to date. And so that
Speaker:kind of spurred me into spending a lot of time,
Speaker:you know, learning the ins and outs of what I'm asking people to give me
Speaker:money for. And that was super helpful, but
Speaker:that continues to be a tough question that I'm asking
Speaker:myself constantly. What am I missing? You know, what am I not doing that I
Speaker:need to be doing and how can I find that out? Yeah, it's very
Speaker:interesting because I've been an entrepreneur for 10 years and it's like,
Speaker:there's a lot of things that you take for granted when you're working in a
Speaker:corporate job that there's stuff that's just taken care of, like
Speaker:investment and finance and payroll and all like marketing and sales and
Speaker:like administration and like, you know, ordering supplies,
Speaker:like all that stuff. And then like when you realize that you're
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. When you realize you gotta, you're the buck stops with you, it's
Speaker:very sobering, but it's empowering as well. And, you know, there's been hiccups
Speaker:in my entrepreneurial journey definitely over the years and some
Speaker:lessons learned from dealing with the IRS. But it really
Speaker:drives that point home of understanding where you do have gaps and either
Speaker:seeking out mentors or just doubling down and just figuring out like,
Speaker:okay, I gotta open up the I got to hit YouTube or I got to,
Speaker:you know, figure out where the course is that's going to get me like the
Speaker:80% there so I can start to speak intelligently. Yeah. And that's another reason why
Speaker:it's so important to build out a fantastic team, right? Um, so that
Speaker:you can trust, because, you know, I know myself well enough to know
Speaker:that, um, you know, I'm going to be, you know,
Speaker:let's say hypothetically I land seed funding and I'm able to pilot this thing sometime
Speaker:at the end, let's say a year from now. I know that I'm going to
Speaker:be a pain about the ins and outs and the little
Speaker:things with the goings-on of the operations. I know that
Speaker:I'm going to be, but I also know that I need to do a lot
Speaker:of other things. And so I need to know that I have somebody that I
Speaker:trust to take care of that so I don't have to stress about it.
Speaker:And so that comes back to how important it is right now to build out
Speaker:the team that I'm looking for, just to take that off the plate
Speaker:and not have to worry about those things. Because there are so many other things
Speaker:that I have to be worried about. So how do you think about tackling a
Speaker:problem like that? You know, I've had this conversation with first-time CEOs as well.
Speaker:Like, where do you look to for guidance? Are there mentors in terms of
Speaker:the thought process for how you start to build a world-class team
Speaker:around you that can support you in the things that are their genius?
Speaker:Well, I can't say I have any direct
Speaker:mentorship on that topic as of right now. I would love to have some,
Speaker:but My main resource right now is like, you know, I listen to a lot
Speaker:of podcasts on starting companies. You know, this Vertical
Speaker:Farming Podcast, for instance, has been a great resource, many others as well.
Speaker:So I listen to a lot of founders podcasts that touch on a lot of
Speaker:these things, and they're certainly helpful. Everything I
Speaker:hear at this point is helpful. So yeah, I mean, the internet's a great resource
Speaker:just in general. I don't have any, like, you know, any direct mentorship
Speaker:on this. Yeah. I mean, I think really the guidance there and some of the
Speaker:feedback that I've heard from past guests is just really, they tell you to
Speaker:hire, what is it like hire slow, fire fast? I haven't
Speaker:heard that one yet, but, um, you know, hopefully not the case,
Speaker:but yeah, I guess that is a good strategy to have in the back of
Speaker:your mind. Well, yeah. I mean, I think that the point there was really take
Speaker:the time to figure out if you have a shared mission with
Speaker:these folks, because, you know, yeah, sure. And, you know, make a change
Speaker:fast if you Becomes obvious that's not the case. Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. So have you had much experience or have
Speaker:engaged with the controlled environment
Speaker:industry or the vertical farming world? Not directly beyond,
Speaker:you know, spending countless hours on industry websites and industry
Speaker:podcasts. I am hoping this year to get to a couple conferences, still
Speaker:trying to work out logistics on that. I've got a 9-month-old, so trying to figure
Speaker:out how to juggle that. But yeah, not directly, but hoping to change that soon.
Speaker:Again, as this— things have really ramped up for the business in the last
Speaker:6 months, let's say. It's been a very slow trickle leading to that 6-month
Speaker:period. And then in the last 6 months, it's kind of been full tilt. And
Speaker:so that is on my goal list for
Speaker:2025, is to start, you know, kind of getting my feet into the industry a
Speaker:bit better than I have in the past and getting to know people and getting
Speaker:to know organizations a bit better. So given the audience for this
Speaker:show, is there any expertise or connections or
Speaker:potential partners that you're sort of eyeing for this next, you know,
Speaker:next 12-month cycle? Yeah, for sure. So I have touched base
Speaker:with Freight Farms, for instance, just kind of trying to build out an idea
Speaker:of what this pilot's going to look like. I have had conversations with them
Speaker:about, you know, can we engineer your modular farms for
Speaker:this system? And it's, you know, it's a pretty straightforward you know, just
Speaker:doing some extra plumbing on the system. I have been using them as a resource
Speaker:to kind of build out my strategy for this pilot. Of course, there
Speaker:are many others like them, um, and many other resources within
Speaker:the industry that may be applicable as well. Right now, my
Speaker:biggest next hurdle is really locking down a brewery
Speaker:partner. I've got an article coming out, um, like kind of a
Speaker:Q&A style article coming out in a San Diego
Speaker:brewing publication in about a week and a half or 2
Speaker:weeks that I'm hoping to kind of ride into some partnership discussions with a couple
Speaker:of the local breweries here in town. San Diego is a great place to be
Speaker:for beer. There's, you know, I came from, like I said, I came from
Speaker:East Tennessee. We were in Knoxville. When I was in Knoxville, we were like 2
Speaker:hours away from Asheville, North Carolina, which is, you know, the East Coast
Speaker:brewing capital of the country, in my opinion. And San Diego is
Speaker:very much the West Coast. So There's a lot of small to
Speaker:medium range breweries out here, very high density.
Speaker:So I'm hoping that I'll be able to, you know, I'm hoping to make
Speaker:contact with a couple of them and eventually come out with one that really
Speaker:shares, you know, sees the vision that I have for this and wants
Speaker:to come along and is excited by it and thinks that they have a customer
Speaker:base that will appreciate it and enjoy it as well. You know, you don't
Speaker:often see the pairing of beer and salads. You know, there's
Speaker:probably like a marketing play there where, you know, there's been stranger
Speaker:combinations that have been made and have had success. So I think if you've got
Speaker:the right marketing person that gets pretty creative, I think there's some— Yeah. I mean,
Speaker:so the way I'm approaching it right now would be, you know, not
Speaker:necessarily to be selling out of the brewery because you just couldn't move
Speaker:enough product with that model. But by all means,
Speaker:like, you know, if I could find a brewery partner that wants to put up
Speaker:a fridge behind the counter, right. And here's your pints and here's your head of
Speaker:lettuce. Like that would be awesome. You know, we're hoping to do like a farmer's
Speaker:market style pop-up on like Saturday mornings at the brewery, which will
Speaker:bring people to the brewery. There's definitely a dynamic that can be fostered,
Speaker:you know, especially like craft beer drinkers. They tend to
Speaker:be foodies in general, right? So your average like
Speaker:West Coast IPA connoisseur is also going to be down for
Speaker:locally grown produce like that. They just go hand in hand. So hoping to really
Speaker:lean into that dynamic and kind of
Speaker:Well, I appreciate you reaching out and like, 'cause it's hard to keep up with
Speaker:everything that's happening in the industry, but it's always exciting to see new
Speaker:innovations. And I think this has definitely got some legs and you've got your
Speaker:work cut out for you, obviously, as a first-time entrepreneur and first-time
Speaker:CEO. But I think the path that you took was really interesting to get that
Speaker:patent first to, and then to start to find the partners that would
Speaker:make sense for you to start to build this. So it feels like things are
Speaker:moving in the right direction. And sometimes it's hard to look at progress when you
Speaker:look back all the way at like 2017, '18, when you first had this
Speaker:idea and we're at 2025 now. So I think there's something to be
Speaker:said for tenacity and persistence. Yeah, it's been a long and
Speaker:slow road. Like a lot of that time was literally just waiting to see if
Speaker:things were going to happen. It's been a long time coming. And so I'm excited
Speaker:that it's, like I said, the last 6 months have really been busy and I
Speaker:feel like there's a lot of momentum right now for the first time since I
Speaker:started. It was always very much like a weird
Speaker:idea that maybe I could pursue up until like
Speaker:August when things really started moving. Now it's like, okay, this is a
Speaker:business. This is something that I can actually make happen. So I'm hoping to
Speaker:ride that momentum for sure. Yeah. And I think the more you start to speak
Speaker:to folks in industry, you know, and getting to events like Indoor AgCon, which
Speaker:I'll be at in March as well, I think it's something like a 3rd or
Speaker:4th time there, but I think getting some visibility into
Speaker:the dynamics around operating and running a farm in
Speaker:itself. And then, 'cause that's, you know, 50% of the business model.
Speaker:So I think the more you start to talk about folks and all, just kind
Speaker:of like now that you've got the patent filed, you can start to kind of,
Speaker:you know, pick people's brains about the idea. And then, and I think being in
Speaker:the environment, I think will start to help and probably foster some
Speaker:other ideas for collab, possible collaborations. For sure. Yeah,
Speaker:absolutely. So it's Terra, T-E-R-R-A,
Speaker:dash firm, F-E-R-M.com. Anywhere else you want to send folks who want to learn
Speaker:more? You'll find everything on that website. You know, it links us to the socials.
Speaker:There's a press release on there that links to the peer-reviewed article that's
Speaker:out that, you know, shows the dataset we talked about earlier and really lays
Speaker:out in fine detail the process flow diagram and how everything works.
Speaker:The website should do it. Yeah. Anybody would be able to find anything they want
Speaker:on there. Okay. Yeah, Matt, we'll make sure that all those links and everything you
Speaker:provided is going to be in the show notes, but I really appreciate you coming
Speaker:on and sharing your story. Thank you, Harry. I really appreciate the time.
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