I was lucky to sit down with Winemaker Leo Tellez and Dir. of Hospitality and Sales, Joe Hinde from Ackerman Family Vineyards in downtown Napa! From the "aviary" of their restored Victorian Heritage House, we laugh and learn from each other as I hear their journeys that led them to where they are today.

Listen as we taste 3 unique and delicious small-production wines (Triple Sip Spotlight!) and talk about the newest Napa Valley AVA, Coombsville, what makes it special and why you need to be drinking wines from this very specific region.

Highlights:

• Coombesville is a hidden gem in Napa Valley, producing exceptional Cabernet Sauvignon.
• Both of of these wine professionals come from multi-generational wine families and carved their paths in this industry
• Now more than ever, the importance of supporting and drinking wines from small family producers
• Winemaking is a blend of art and science, requiring creativity and meticulous attention.
• The joy of wine tasting lies in the stories and connections made around the table.

Episode Links:

You can purchase their wines and set up a tasting at Ackerman Family Vineyards

Check out their YouTube Channel for more of the "Joe and Leo Show"

Follow them on Instagram

Other Links and resources:

Purchase my Sollevato Sangiovese 2022and Sollevato "Fortunato" Red Blend

(Use the code PODLISTENER for 10% off Nikki and Michael's Sollevato Wines!

Follow me on Instagram to get the scoop on upcoming episodes and behind the scenes looks!

Enjoy some of MY FAVORITE THINGS from our Sponsors:

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Questions, suggestions and guest requests? nikki@sipwithnikki.com

Also got married in Coombesville. So close to my heart, I would.

Say you really are the Coombesville ambassador.

Yeah.

Leo literally materialized from the soils of Coomsville.

Clearly. Clearly.

Yeah. Amongst my friends, they call me the mayor of Coombesville.

Hello, welcome to SIP with Nikki. I'm Nikki Lamberti here in Sonoma County, California, and thanks so much for listening in.

So if you're a regular listener, you may have noticed a theme in the last year or so where I'm really loving highlighting small producers around the world, but especially here in California, now more than ever, I think it's important to encourage you as listeners and wine drinkers to take a look at these small family producers that generally, if you don't live in in this area or visit here, could be off your radar. And I am here to put them on yours. So years ago, I met Lauren Ackerman and Christy Fondario from Ackerman Family Vineyards.

They have a beautiful restored Victorian in downtown Napa that serves as their tasting room. And Christy was kind enough to tour my sister and I around as part of our tasting and she is now the GM of the winery.

So this week I wanted to make sure that you know about this unique and fantastic winery where Lauren Ackerman is the president.

She alone is an inspiration in all that she has done, including the five years that she took to restore Napa's only authentic historic home, the Ackerman Heritage House. She is extremely active in our area on multiple committees and boards.

She is a philanthropist and an inspiration as a well known business owner here in the Napa Valley.

So I was thrilled to have the opportunity to sit down with Ackerman's winemaker, Leo Tellez, and their director of Sales and hospitality, Joe Hind, who happens to be Christy's husband. And you'll hear us joke about how that came to be.

We taste through three of their gorgeous wines in our SIP Spotlight, including a unique red blend, a super Tuscan inspired wine, which you know I am a fan of, and their beautiful Coombesville Cabernet Sauvignon. Coombesville is an AVA or American viticulture area located in the southeastern corner of the Napa Valley.

And you'll hear us talk about why that's a big deal, why that's important, and what Ava means to you as a wine drinker.

You see, Coombesville is a lesser known region to most consumers because while it has a lot of vineyards, it does not have as many wineries that you can physically visit and it's the newest wine region in the Napa Valley known for beautiful wines, especially Cabernet Sauvignon.

And I just happened to get to speak with these two guys who are not only knowledgeable, but extremely passionate about Coombsville, even to the point where Leo is known as the unofficial mayor of Coombsville. So we'll talk about what makes this region for wine growing unique and then how that expresses itself in the bottle.

Leo's and Joe's backgrounds, while very different, had some surprising parallels that we were able to uncover. And we'll talk about what led them to where they are.

And I think what I'm excited for you to hear in this episode is how when you have someone who makes these wines and then someone whose life's work is to be on the road selling them and sharing these with visitors and tastings, how they think about what's in the bottle, how it gets to be what it is through the meticulous crafting of a winemaker like Leo.

But then all the steps that it takes to bring a wine like this to market, to make it accessible so that people like you can actually get their hands on it. So here we go with Leo Tellez and Joe Hind of Ackerman Family Vineyards.

Happy Tuesday, guys. Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

Happy Tuesday. Thanks for being here.

Thank you for the invitation to this beautiful Victorian. It's been a long time since I've been here, and I understand this is the first official podcast for both of you, is that right?

Indeed, that would be correct.

So many things to talk about.

Leo, let's start with you and tell.

Me a little bit about how you got to making wine for Ackerman Family and a little bit about the road to get here. Cool.

Yeah. Born and raised here in Napa. So my grandfather immigrated from Jalisco, Mexico, in the 50s, worked up in Charles Koog.

My father worked for Mondavi for decades, and as a young boy, I thought the coolest job was to be in a truck and drive all over different vineyards.

So multi generation in the wine business then, too?

Third generation for sure.

So the first one to really be in production, because my ancestors before all agriculture, so everything with vineyards and being outside and working those long hours, we.

Thank them for their service.

Yeah.

Hard work. Every time I pick, I'm like, oh, man, I'm glad I only do this for one day a year.

Yeah. So I worked in restaurants at a young age.

Work in a very fancy restaurant that maybe people have heard of before.

Several junior in High school, I worked at the restaurant at Domain Chandon, the Laundry back in Yountville in 03.

For the listeners, that's the French Laundry. But I guess when you're on the inside like Leo, you just say the laundry because then the French part takes much time. So we just got to it.

It's the hip waves, I guess.

Say the freaking French Laundry because I'm still like endeavored with it. How long did you work there?

A few months. You had to be there full time. And I was at the junior college figuring out life.

And I was very fortunate to go to school in the morning and I would work at night. Good experiences. Finally transferred to San Francisco State where I got my bachelor's in international relations. Worked at Masa's and Quint. Yeah.

All front of the house and restaurants.

Yes, all front of the house. Either server or assisted the sommelier in all aspects of opening wine, serving wine, all that good stuff.

So Alan Murray, who is an ms, was the person that I really learned from in a sense that, okay, I can do this as a career because I asked so many questions.

Those are like legacy restaurants that you grew up working in. That's very cool.

In production, I started working at Cap Shandy, which is in the Anville.

I've had some of their 100 point wines.

Yeah.

In a tasting we did of all 100 point Napa cabs with pride and Caps Gandhi and all of that. It was amazing.

Yeah. From the beginning, it was a property that Barringer focused on single vineyards.

So Barringer, I don't know if they're the pioneers of the single vineyard concept in Napa, but they still have a lot of single vineyard wines and focus. So. Yeah, that was my first winery. I worked in the cellar. It was $9.50 an hour. Back in the day, I was just happy to work in production. I loved it.

David Sotelo, who's been there since day one and really was a mentor and a close friend, made wine at Napa Wine Company and all these fancy cult wines came from that screaming eagle, Colgan Bryant. All these kind of nice.

What are you. Name dropping.

No, no, no. Reflecting back in the restaurant industry. I remember having all these wineries before service. We're having family meal, all these cool wine brands.

Back then I wasn't really drinking because I was 21, but really cool list of 90s cabs. Like really when things popped off in terms of. Parker wrote it, lobby wrote it, and people went crazy over it.

But yeah, met Denny Malbec there, who was third generation Latour. So his grandfather, father, and he worked there for almost 100 years.

I was fortunate to work with him and also work with him in this consulting company. So we did all kinds of really cool things. So learned a lot from him in the sense of the culinary aspect you construct to deconstruct.

And he was very deconstructing.

Picking this side of the block, this root stock, and keep everything separate and really building something versus nothing against different style winemaking. I took my niece to Sonoma State last year for a school tour, and she's going to be 15. She's. Oh, so you make wines.

Yeah, I see myself as an artist that makes liquid art. Something that.

Beautifully said.

I've always, as a child, love ceramics. Art of any sort in ceramics. I was tired of making plates and bowls, so I made a 3D, remnants of a Michael Jordan shoe. So at the height of the late.

90S, that speaks to what, the time, the era?

Yeah, appropriately. Yeah. So I've always built things and created things. So winemaking, especially working with Denis, I was a sponge. I was just learning a lot.

Freshly baptized, they say, I don't know.

Yes. Designated.

Designated.

Which is a big deal for people listening who are like, what are they even talking about? When your property falls under a Appalachian or American viticulture area and they draw those lines, you want to be in it. Because from a.

From a sales and marketing standpoint, it's something you can put on the label to show a very specific area. Typical notes typicity, as we say. Yeah. It was a big deal to have a new Ava in the Napa Valley. Yeah.

All I heard was, oh, it's too cold.

Or because it's south of.

Yes. Southeast, where we're sitting, of downtown Napa.

So 10 minutes from where we're at in the tasting room here, All I heard was, like, negative things where it's, oh, it's going to be green. You make green cab. And I was just like, oh, okay. I'm just more of a listener. I don't really say things unless I.

Wonder what that's like. Joe, are you with me?

Yeah. It's interesting, too, to add that you would get those kind of remarks and comments, however. Long before it was declared Navy A, there was a lot of.

I won't say names. Big guys buying fruit from that area.

Right.

So you couldn't have the designate, but everybody, they knew it was good. But there's a good amount there.

Yep.

That's very true.

Okay.

I would say even some critics would write it off from just off the bat. It's really hard when you're comparing apples to apples, because it's not.

It's when friends are picking Calistoga three, four weeks, you get that anxiety. You're like, shoot, man.

You're just waiting because it's so much cooler and your drinks are not there yet. So you get Calistoga's hot.

You get that fomo. It's heavy. You just have to be. Which it's like anything in life. You have to be patient. Things are gonna ripen in every marker.

We're always behind up valley. And that's been historically kumzo in a nutshell.

So, Sidero. So you're still making wine for them as well, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been making wine since Denny passed in 16. So was the cellar master, assistant winemaker. All the above. Really.

Because, Joe, you were already here. Ackerman. At the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that's when we met. We tasted the wines, talked everything through. And why I like Coombesville. Coombesville, to me, has a soft spot. Silverado Middle School.

The middle school that I went to is down the street. And I remember running cross country, and back then, it was just pasture cattle everywhere. No vines in that area? No.

Now, Faust, I believe, has a big holding there, but, yeah, it's always been under the radar. And like the unsung hero, you literally.

Have roots in that area. Running track in that area. That's so cool.

And now to see it where it's at. Wow. So it's definitely a beautiful area. I love the soils, everything about it.

And now, let's say last 10 years, some serious winemakers and serious wineries making wine there. And rightfully so.

Is that what you're calling yourself? You're referring to yourself in the third person.

Yes, yes, yes. Serious wine maker. Yeah.

There's no room for joking.

Yeah.

18, yeah.

Winemaker here.

I also got married in Coombsville. So close to my heart, I would.

Say you really are the Coombsville ambassador.

Leo literally materialized from the soils.

Clearly, clearly, clearly.

Yeah. Amongst my friends, they call me the mayor of Comzel.

Okay.

So do you live in Coombesville? Well, I live downtown, but the original mayor of Napa, his house is across the street from mine.

So Mayor Coombs was the first mayor of the city of Napa, so Coombsville is named after him.

I was like, that can't be a coincidence. Getting a nice Napa history lesson too. As a bonus today, one of the.

Founders of Napa too. First mayor. Yeah, it was Nathan Coombs. George Yan, General Viejo.

Right now, you're name dropping that your knowledge has come from studying and living here. Because you are not from here. You are from Ohio.

I was born in Ohio, Yeah. And my dad's job, he's in the wine industry. He was in steakhouses in Toledo. It's a local chain up there, the Nancy Steakhouse.

He was a busboy, the meat department, then F and B manager, and then got into liquor store sales and distribution and actually led him to. When Kendall Jackson was a startup company. I think he was like the 9th or 11th worker.

Wow.

Yeah. Domestically, outside. For KJ.

This is before you were born.

Before I was born.

Because you're a baby. I think if that beard was not there, you're really a baby.

Yeah. So he worked for KJ for some time.

And then when Jess Jackson bought La Crema and rebooted it, essentially we moved out here to California, Sonoma County, Santa Rosa, specifically.

So it was your dad's job in wine that moved the family from Ohio here?

That's correct. So yeah. So then we've been out here since then.

I did go to Bowling Green State University, and interestingly enough, I did not study anything wine related. I was in health and human development and kinesiology.

Wine is health and human development.

It does, yeah. You know, it got does, yeah, yeah. Specifically exercise physiology.

So I guess you can say I Have what's called life balance now at this point, given what I'm doing. And like I said, I was just around it emerged in it.

You both inspired by your dads?

Yeah, yeah. Common denominator, for sure. And when I graduated to college, I was on that job hunt because what do you do with exercise Fizz?

You can go the physical therapy route. That's a doctorate program. Or you can go masters for strength and conditioning. And it's very different lanes overall.

And to say bluntly, which one's going to make you money? Which one are you really going to have to go for? And maybe you'll get a good position somewhere.

And my dad, at that time it was named, the company was called Prospect Brands. And it was a private label company. I mean, they were doing, God, I want to say, almost like a million cases a year of that.

And yeah, it was just all year round. So I had the opportunity when he said we were trying to figure out. There's plenty of room to help us on the modeling lines there.

For a QA perspective. And he might learn something.

You're like fresh out of college.

Yeah, fresh out of college. Yeah.

The ink is not dry on the degree.

The ink is not dry. Not at all. And it's also when you're like, what, 22, 23. So, yeah, I did the bottling line. So a lot of stacking in the pallets.

Checking label heights, calibrating machines, etc. And he had a few of his clients that had tasting rooms. One of which was in St. Helena. Was the Yao Family Wines tasting room.

Yeah, Yeah, I worked there on a part time basis.

And then the basketball player.

That was the basketball player, yep. Yao Ming. So I was doing kind of dual wielding of part time in production, part time at the tasting room.

Which did you enjoy more at the time?

It depends.

Almost like front of the house, the back of the house. Restaurant speed production versus tasting room.

Yeah, depended, I guess on the week overall. Because sometimes it's like the last thing you want to do is interface with people.

And you just go to the seller and it's just, all right, we're getting the job done. Or it's. I mean, I haven't seen a person in how many days. Like I'm just dying to talk to. Or just like information dumps.

Someone who does both in my life, it's nice to have the balance.

Yeah, definitely. So depended on the timing. Great experience either way. So I got to work on several areas of the harvest line.

Exciting too.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess I chose a Path when I went to college. There's some variants. Who really knows what they want to do when they're 17, 18 years old.

I've changed 19 times since then.

Yeah.

Certainly it wasn't this that I envisioned then.

Yeah. No, it's one of those things where you're just like, oh, I think I want to do this. And two weeks in the semester, get me the hell out of here.

I always say what we do is we cross things off the list. Nope, that was not it. That was not it until we.

Especially after the first harvest, it just clicked with me. And then Santa Rosa Junior College had a wine program there. Yeah. So I took the generals class, and it was just everything.

Wine region, varietals, how to read labels. And it started to just gravitate more and more from there. And I still remember this. We took a field trip to St. Francis.

We met Chris Silva at the winery, and he toured us around. I was living at home at the time, and they took a picture of our class that went on that field trip there.

And I had been out of Santa Rosa for a long time for college.

What I didn't know is that my mom's best friend at the the time was the director of hospitality for St. Francis, who wasn't there during the field trip. But then they posted it on their site, and there I am, and my mom's friend passes along, hey, who's in our class? Yeah.

So I remember coming down that morning, I'm getting ready to go to the tasting room, and my parents are sitting at the table having coffee, and they both just look at me all abruptly with that head turned, and I'm like, what? I don't think I did anything wrong. What happened? And my mom turns her iPad around, and then there's our class picture.

And they said, oh, so do you want to get into wine? And I said, said, talk to you guys. Yeah, I got busted. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Been meaning to talk to you guys about that.

And I won't put, you know, words in her mouth, but our gm, Christie, I think that's actually how she made her first leap over here.

I think it is, because I think she and I talked about that common area. Yeah.

Yeah. From New York here, I think, was wine jobs.

So listeners winejobs.com if you're sitting in the Midwest or New Jersey or wherever and you're dreaming about working in wine country, just take a scroll on there.

And you might find something.

Absolutely everything is posted there.

Yeah.

And then a mutual friend of my dad's, and actually Christie's too, had mentioned to my dad that they were looking for help here at Ackerman and would love to have someone to help with tastings. And first I was like, ah, thanks, but no thanks. I think the right opportunity will come organically.

But I figured I would just stay in the production and part time hospitality. It was keeping me busy and I was making good money with it too.

But I just figured, okay, that opportunity will come through the grapevine, if you will.

Pun intended.

But it was funny because I was like, okay, I didn't follow with it. And not even 24 hours later, Chris was. Who is now our general manager, called me.

Who's now what?

Who's now my wife.

Oh, yeah, that too. Yeah, that too.

Yeah. Just to slide that detail in there. Okay. This place is giving me a call. Let's go check it out. So, yeah, coming up on eight years there.

And yeah, I interviewed with Christy and Lauren that day. And I started off part time and I was just tasting room associate, hospitality and sales associate. And now I'm the director of sales.

What could you there? I know. Just working my way up the ladder, you know.

And so you travel a lot, also promoting and sharing the brand with different distributors, clients, accounts, things like that.

Yep, that's right. Yeah. So everything from your in home dinners, wine tastings with DTC clients, and then I will travel with our distributors, Leo will too.

And we'll go see all the different accounts, maybe have a wine maker dinner or reception style event. Absolutely. Yeah, I know. We definitely have our fun. That's for sure.

A lot of my role is educating about the brand along with Jay Conway, who's our national brand manager and he's with Elite Wine Group. So he's been very helpful with getting us in front of distributors. And then we go in, preach the good word, as we like to say out there. Yeah.

And then build connection. Because when you have the connection too, that's half the battle.

One wine can taste this way, one wine can taste that way, but when you have a connection and feel to the brand, it just tastes that much better. I've been very fortunate to be around people like Leo, people like Christy, people like Lauren and what we did in the culinary aspect here.

We worked at the Eckerman house We had three former French Laundry chefs that worked with us.

So he said the French part. Just.

Yeah, I'm not.

I wasn't born and raised in Napa, so, you know, I have to. I still have to say the French. What is it, 25 years until I can call it the laundry. Right.

TFL.

Yeah, yeah.

TFL. There you go. It's like the French Laundry.

You know, it's been such a long time since it. But it just comes naturally. You just know, as it should now.

That we go way back, I just.

Giving you a hard time.

For me, I'm so used to saying the Ohio State.

Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

But, yeah, so I've just been so fortunate to be around so many fantastic professionals that have these array of knowledge, and it's just been fantastic. So now traveling and going on the road and now being able to apply that even more.

There's one sense of working it here in Napa, but then getting out there.

Being the face of the brand on the road.

And yeah, I think it's just that human connection. That's another element of wine. It's just like I say, since COVID it's people, place, and time is what is encapsulated in a bottle.

It's just capturing a time, the place and the people around it. And I think people get jazzed up when you're in front of them. And for me, it's just educating.

Most of the time, I don't tell them I'm the winemaker, but they find out. But it's just, hey, what kind of wines do you like? Oh, great. And then, wow. You know a lot about wines.

Well, I mean, what's in your bag? Equal place in time. I love that because I talk about wine as a time capsule. So the same idea. And liquid art, of course, going back to that.

So I would love to dive into some liquid art right now. And, Jo, I know a lot of the time that you've been traveling lately has been focused on this first wine that we're going to be talking about.

Is that right?

Yeah, that's right. That's the memoir, which we actually.

Memoir?

Have you written your memoir today?

That's the tagline I saw on there, which I love. Who came up with that?

That one was Christy and then Lauren.

Brilliant.

Yeah, we actually had a prototype. You can have a prototype when it comes to wine, fancy and official. And it makes me sound more technologically savvy than I actually.

Yeah. Nerd.

Nerd.

When you say so small.

For our listeners. That is very small.

Yeah. That's.

I'm 200, which is not even visible on.

Well, it's not a competition.

Yeah.

On the small end of boutique.

Yeah.

No, just for context for the listeners.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So not really a lot to go around as you look at a national sense.

And our cab was in an array of prestigious restaurants in the hands of our members.

And Christy and Lauren were talking about this, and Christy has a pretty extensive pine background, as does Lauren, and they were brainstorming, and Christy came up with the idea of memoir. And if we have so much reach, like, why don't we make a second label that we can make more of and put into those markets?

Smart business.

Up until this point, Ackermann had not made a blend.

Oh, we made a blend, but they were smaller produced. Like we make our Olivina Tusco, which is our take on a super Tuscan.

Right, right. How could I forget?

Yeah. You gotta love that Sangio, right?

One of my favorites.

Yeah. No, it's insane.

So having that second label idea come about to where we can reach in a broader, more national sense, have more supply for the demand that we were seeing.

So by the time we were putting it out into the precursor era of getting in front of distributors and people were liking it, and then this thing called the pandemic happened.

So a lot of the distribution with taking new labels on went to a pause, especially for a small boutique winery that the national market's not really heard of on there, per se. On that.

Not the time to break into the market.

Yeah.

So we finally came out of the pandemic. Distributors were more interested in new labels, and it's gone really well since then.

We're still getting the brand known, creating awareness from our distributors to our accounts and really building those national relationships. But it's really helped us reach a broad audience and we get to travel a lot, which is a lot of fun. So, yeah, the memoir is our. This is just.

Love the label. Yeah. Thank you simple and classy. My question was going to be, is Ackerman on there? And it is on the bottom. It is by Ackerman Family venue.

Yep, right there on the bottom. And then it ties you that back for our website. And it's a really fantastic wine. And Leo, this was the.

This was your baby.

Yeah, this is his baby.

All right, take us through it. Let's taste it.

Yeah. Cheers.

We call this a Sip Spotlight. And there's a little jingle that you'll. I'm not gonna make you sing. It's me singing. So this is the Sip Spotlight.

After a couple glasses, we'll see who ends up singing.

It's all estate fruit. So in total, 11 acres in Coombesil on a gentle slope, planted in sections 96, 97. So predominantly one clone.

In the 90s after AXR was getting pulled out, listeners.

AXR is a root stock that vines were planted on.

Yeah, There's a brand as well.

There is also a tasting room at a winery on Highway 29. So, yeah, I think you're referring to the rootstock. Yeah, just for our non scientific listeners are like, what are they talking about?

Yeah, 337, also a very popular clone in this era in Napa. So one clone of Cabernet Merlot, Malbec Cap Franc. And we used to have PV. Now it's everything but PV. So.

So top, middle, bottom. Just because nothing in a hillside ripens evenly. So you have to.

That would be too easy.

Yeah, you really have to look at the vineyard and see what it gives you. We're looking at 70% new French oak, 30% neutral. Meaning in Bordeaux varieties, any time a wine's been filled once, the second time I refer neutral.

Second use barrel, you're calling neutral. Yeah.

So we're talking 18, 22 months in barrel. Sometimes that reference can confuse some.

It's one wine, but it was in there for almost two years.

Yeah, exactly. So that's the same. Yeah, yeah.

Because all the oak that you get is primarily from the first use, depending on the varietal, of course, we're talking Bordeaux. So for those pinot listeners, it's a different animal. So this is predominantly Cabernet, Merlot, Malbec cap franc, mpv. Ground out this wine.

A lot of blue, black fruit.

Smelled rosemary. It was like a sprig of rosemary in my glass.

Yeah, it's a little bit of that mineral component that you get in Coomsville. So, yeah, Very different selection of barrels. I like play with medium. Medium plus is the highest.

I'm not a French roast kind of coffee drinker, so I like nuance in barrels.

Good parallels between the two.

Yeah, so I like pour overs. Espresso, sometimes after lunch maybe.

How Italian.

Yeah, full maracon.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. The winemaking philosophy is five to seven day cold. So start fermentation.

So we're going from 40 degrees cold, soak dry ice, pump it over twice into the fermentation phase where we heat up the tank. I think that winemaking is definitely an art in science, but I'm more art than science. I think science is important.

But we heard about the Michael Jordan show.

Yeah.

Artistry is high with you creativity.

So for me, the fruit in Coombsville, you can't just. Let's put some heavy toast. Nothing against heavy toast for those that like that toast or use it.

Everyone interprets their wine however they like, but the medium plus kind of gives me that balance between texture and that freshly ground coffee. So a combo of those two.

As we go forward, too, with memoir now, we're increasing production, so it's going to be vineyards within Napa Valley for our listeners.

I believe this is a $50 price point. Is that correct?

That's correct.

Which is amazing and unheard of.

So am I right in understanding that really the goal was to have this be accessible for all wine drinkers, not only in the price point, but just in the accessibility? Meaning there will be distribution and people can find this maybe at home?

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. $50 is the general estimate. SRP sales, retail price. It can vary from shop to shop, but we are active in about 20 states right now.

California, of course, is one of them. Texas, North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Michigan, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona.

Showing up, listing them off the top of this. If someone lives in a state where they can't find it locally, can they purchase it online and have it shipped?

Yeah, you can call us directly. We have the shop online, too.

If it's not directly accessible in your retail stores near you just yet, like I said, there's placement, but we're just working on the overall expansion there. But yeah, if it's not at your local restaurant or your local retail store, just give us a call. We'll get you all set up.

If you also go online, it's available there, too.

Okay.

Creating a quality wine along with Leo's skill set and his experience at that affordable price point, which is something that's impressive.

Yeah. Thank you.

It's just something the wine industry just needs right now.

I have a question for both of you as you take a sip of this memoir, and I'll do the same, too, but I want to know, how does this wine make you feel when you sip it? Not what is the mouth feel of this wine? Emotionally, what do you think of how does it make you feel?

And I know it's harder for you because you're close to it as the winemaker and you know the ph and you know what the bricks were and you know all the specs, but sitting here in this beautiful space right now, how does it make you feel when you drink it?

It makes me feel like calling a couple friends and cooking and getting together. I think, you know, wine for me is just creating community.

Just whether it's loved ones, friends, family, your neighbor, creating a community, whatever. That looks top that.

No pressure.

Oh, that's a tough one to top that. Maybe I should have went first. So it sounds.

The next question I'll ask you first.

Yeah. So it'll sound like Leo's copying me. That was a very similar answer. And I definitely reflect to times of friends, family.

I had a mentor at one phase of my early wine career, if you will, and he's French, so when he says it, it's got a little more like, romanticism with the accent. He always said that you're not selling wine, you're selling memories. And an empty bottle of wine is memories that have been captured and saved.

And that's my accent, too. So now imagine that, like, in a French accent, it's like, all right, I'll take a palate right there. But, yeah, it's interesting.

It's called memoir, and that's part of our branding, too, is that every bottle of wine and the experience around it tells a story. Whether you're with family, when you're with friends, there's always something memorable about it.

But this particular one literally transports me back to the time at the lake with the family. It's just the family dinner, and then you end up having the best laughs. You order a few more bottles of wine, you close down the restaurant.

Just good times like that.

I might know a thing or two about that, because there are a lot of other words that could have been used, like story or chapter. But memoir is personal, right? Writing my memoir is like telling my story is what I think of emotions, your own feelings. Yeah.

Your interpretation of the wine and the journey that it takes you on. And it's delicious. It's soft fruit, but it's very mouth coating. Super long finish. Because I've not had a sip in a few minutes.

Cause I'm savoring the tiny little bit that I have left in my glass. But very easy to drink, but very layered. It's really beautiful. Well done. All right, you can stay.

Yeah, I think we'll keep them.

Tell us what else we have here in front of us. Glass number two.

This one in the middle of our flight. For our listeners at home, this is called our Olivia Tusca. And the Elevia Tusca is essentially our take on the super Tuscan style of wine.

If that's Super Tuscan, people are culty as one. I can see say that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Tiananello was my Aha. Wine that got me into the business.

You know, started with various sources throughout Napa. Sangiovese is a harder grape to come by. And it's.

I know.

Yeah. And it's. It depends who you ask on there too. But it's interesting.

There is a lot of Italian and origin families that immigrated out here at one point or another, and they grew grapes, made wine. I feel like every Italian I knew in Ohio always had a wine operation in their basement.

Oh, like my grandparents in the basement in Brooklyn.

Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. Trickle to Ohio, too.

It was interesting because before cab was king, there was a lot of Sangiovese out here in the 50s, 60s, even the 70s on there, too. And then just with popularity and demand, it switched from there. So you can find Sangiovese. It's just hard to come by.

It's not that it doesn't grow well. It's, again, it depends who you ask.

Don't get me into that debate. I'm not going to talk about that.

All right, it looks like we're in good company then. But, yeah, it's just more of a supply and demand overall for it. But Ackerman's love Italian wines. Myself and Christy love Italian wines, too.

You go do so many wonderful tastings out here, and it's fun to run into something unique. You taste a lot of.

When we are in cab country, when.

We were in cab country.

You have to be surprised with something else.

Yeah, you switch it up a little bit. We taste so much Saint Blanc, so much cab Merlot, Cab franc, Bordeaux style blends. Once in a while you might life hard.

It's a tough life out there, you know, Hard. Yeah. Someone's got to do it though, right?

And we do.

We sure do. So, yeah, we wanted to have something that was special, unique. Bring a little bit of that touch of Tuscany out here too.

Thank you.

Yeah. So it varies every year as we see the Sangiovese in particularly. We've had various sources throughout the years.

We actually get the Sangiovese now through one of Leo's connections. It's up on Atlas Peak, actually. Antonori family's property.

Oh yeah. Was it the Antico property? I've been there. Yeah.

They have a small sliver of San Jo.

I think it's two acres.

Look at you using those connections. That's rare. How much of this do you make?

125 to max. 225.

This one. Yeah, we had a pretty good yield in 22, so this was about 196. So just a little shy of 200.

200 cases. About eight barrels of wine for our listeners.

But yeah, Leo, to his point, years past 21 and back, we might have had 50 cases, 60 cases. So it's always been small just because of the Sangiovese.

Sangiovese, the limiting factor in it all, for sure.

Well, even too. And Leo can speak to this too. Leo took us up to the vineyard a few years ago up on Atlas Peak. And it's the antinore clone of the Sangiovese.

So you have just monstrous clusters, like in size. For the berries are very large in themselves too.

So when you've had those drought years, inherently they suck up water and a lot of those senses there to be able to keep those clusters forming on there. But what I love about this, it's a Sangiovese cab blend. So that can vary every year. This particular year was 60 sangiovese 40 cablio. Was that right?

Yes. So depending on the vintage, we ferment the cab in Sangiovese completely separate. Sangiovese doesn't like new oak.

It's gentle like peanut, meaning open top fermenters, just really low temperatures, not too hot, nice long maceration.

It's Italian. You have to be nice to it.

Yeah, you gotta be gentle.

You gotta put the Tiamo.

So then when we make all the wines in the early spring, we taste the San Joe, taste the cabin. Okay. And then we just find that beautiful balance collectively that we all enjoy of your blend percentage. Yeah.

And I get on this wine, that beautiful liveliness.

So you're fighting tannin acid. There's a lot of components.

So for me, it's just giving it structure, kind of giving that roundness in terms of tannins and just creating, like, a nice, beautiful wine in itself. So it's fun because, you know, you bring this to a dinner party in Napa or anywhere, and they're expecting cab.

This is just a curveball, which is really fun to make, to be quite honest.

Why? I make a curveball.

Yeah.

It's nice to surprise people.

Yeah, you got to be able to hit a curveball.

I mean.

Yeah.

Right.

Sports Guy. Calm down, Calm down.

I think a lot of French varietals have been really focused on, but I think Italian varietals, Fermentino fiano, any of those should be celebrated. I like how these brands, new brands and brands have been around, are, you know, their interpretation. Old world is the Old World here, the New World.

It's like our take. There's no right or wrong. It's just what we Italians might tell.

Us otherwise, but we know it's our expression of their Old World grape.

I can agree with them on one thing. A little espresso after lunch is.

Enchivita. Yeah. Speaking of Italian, can you say the name of this wine again?

Olivia Tusca.

And the translation is the spirit of Tuscany. Freaking love.

I forgot that you guys made a Super Tuscan, and I brought you my Sangiovesi today, which is amazing, but I made one barrel of a Super Tuscan called Fortunato, which is about 60% Sangiovese, 35 cab, and little petite Syrah. Oh, really cool, because I make of Tito on its own. I will get you some of that. I forgot that you guys did that, this.

And we could have done a little side by side.

Yeah.

That's one barrel. 386 bottles.

So wow, that's cool.

But clearly, we're all passionate about the.

Super Tuscan and beautiful food wine.

Oh, absolutely.

That's gorgeous. You talk about that. The Cabernet in here is a steak Cabernet Sauvignon.

It'd be so fun to be able to, like, now, disassemble this wine and just taste estate Cabernet Sauvignon.

So we're now in third gear.

Third gear.

Put the clutch in, then you put for those that love cars. But yeah, Cabernet So this is all clone 337 planted in the 90s.

100%.

And this is labeled Coombesville.

Coombesville, yes. So 21 tiny vintage in terms of, like, production.

Picked in three different sections from the gentle slope of the vineyard, top, middle, and the bottom half. I feel this wine is just a classic Hummel representation with we do the five day, seven day cold soak, fermentation nice and cool.

All in all, it's probably like 28, 35 days on skins and drain and press free run in new barrels, press juice in neutral, and use probably six to seven, maybe eight different Coopers. I think that complex city can be built with oak Allier.

The spice rack.

Yeah. Tronse Vosges. Different Coopers, different forests. Just then he always mentioned Coopers as spice. Do you just cook with salt and pepper?

No, I don't want it. Then why do you use two barrels or one barrel? I was like, so true.

Fully subscribe to that. You guys saw me when I took my first sip, and I almost melted. So the memoir and the Super Tuscan men are just beautiful and luscious and juicy.

But the first thought I had when I tasted this is a wine like this is what made me a Cabernet Sauvignon lover. The way that it sits in the mouth even after it's gone, the way that it's stripping down layers as it sits there.

And Sip two was different than Sip one. Plus, these wines have been sitting in the glass for some time, right?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

But just the classic Cabernet, layers of flavor. But even more than the flavor for me is the texture. There's tan in there, which I love, but they are. They're integrated.

And this will age for sure for a long time. But that first sip, without being nerdy about it, was just like, oh, yeah. This type of wine is why I love Cabernet Sauvignon.

And I may have won some goosebumps.

Appreciate that.

Goosebumps. So, yeah, there could not be three more different red wines made by the same person in front of us. They are so different.

Where does this wine take you?

This particular one, it just has so much power, but so much finesse to it too. And to your statement. This is why you love these kind of cabs, like these Napa.

In this case, Coombesville Cabernet Sauvignon, that you just feel just, like, elegant, but also just that strength that's in you.

She's a woman, but she a strong woman. No guessing about that.

No, totally. I mean, it's very similar to memoir. Just, like, transports you to. When I taste it, it's almost like a darker ambiance.

But you have that nice candlelight there. Almost like it's getting sexy.

Man, do I need to call Christy back?

Can we get her on the line here? But I think of it, it's. We were in Florence, always back. But it reminds me of being in, like, a Florentine steakhouse. There was the one we went to.

It was. What was that one called? Regina. Regina. Yeah. I just got a humble drop that one in there. Let me just tell you how worldly I am.

Whenever you can start a sentence like, when we were in Florence is amazing.

Yeah. Content side to it, too, where it's dark, but you have that nice kind of light to it as well. You've got some really good food.

Ooh, I like the dark. And light. Karen McNeil always talks about, and I always am like, why don't I use this word more? I forget. Tension.

Yeah.

You've got those opposing forces in the wine. The dark and the light, the elegant and the strong. It has all of that.

Yeah, but you're not, like, fearful with it. There's the tension, but there's no anxious feel. There's anxiety. I mean, it's just.

It's like one of those moments, like, you just feel like you're exactly where you need to be. There's the tension, but it's calm at the same time.

I feel like I'm right where I need to be right now. And this is beautiful. And I want to thank you guys for sharing the wines and the stories. Maybe a final question here.

Are you proud of these wines, Leo?

Yeah, I'm super proud. It's a close friend, childhood friend. Something that, you know, you see in phases, and you're just happy where it's at.

And I love older Napa cabs and seeing how they age. And for me, every gesture I do for friends or family that are celebrating a birthday is. Okay. Your birth year is this.

For me, it's always gifting someone at birth year one just because.

76.

Okay, good to know.

Big birthday next year. Huge.

Yeah. No, it's milestones in life. And for me, it's just celebrating that.

And I think that with wine, it's a beverage that went through couple pandemics, world wars, and everything that's going through, but I think that it's a very special beverage. Nothing against beer or any other spirit or anything. This is just a very personal product that we put a lot of effort and time and love to it.

And I think that with anything it goes to through its evolution. But I think that at the end of the day or at the end of any struggle, I think we'll be there.

And I think that the wine industry is something special, generational, and I truly believe that. And a product people put their blood, sweat and tears.

Yeah. Amen to that. Joe, coming more from the hospitality side, can you just share with our listeners about.

Okay, they've listened to this and like, my gosh, I want to taste this. I want to go, I want to see, I want to experience it. I'm going to be in Napa Valley. What do people need to know about coming and tasting here?

Yeah. If you were to come taste with us, we would be absolutely delighted, honored all of the above to have you. You can find us online.

Our phone number is right there. My email, joermanfamilyvineards.com it's listed on the website. Just shoot us a message, give us a call. We'll get you set up with.

If you want to do more of a leisure tasting, come hang out in the room that we're in right now.

This room is gorgeous. You call this the aviary?

We call it the aviary, but there's no birds. There are no birds.

Once upon a time, used to be birds.

The room we're in now, it used to be the carriage house, but there was coops and aviarial areas on there. Yeah. And when Lauren restored the place, it was. We're in the residential section versus like a historical district.

So it was in the hands of the previous owners for the upkeep. And long story short, these homes really need a lot of work from when they're built to what, 130 some years later.

So once we designed it into the tasting salon, like they very just stuck from there. Yeah, we can fit eight out here. And then we have the courtyard space. As you can see in our listeners, we have a really nice kind of stuff.

Secret garden, as I like to call it. But yeah, if you want to come and enjoy some wine out in the courtyard, hang out at the tasting salon here with myself or Alexia.

She hosts tastings here too. We do more of a elevated Tasting where we can dive into the library, really nerd out on some pairings.

So if you really want to lock in and nerd out on wine, we've got that. Or if you just want to come hang out, drink some great wine, we've got that option there too. So overall, we're pretty normal people. I'd like to say.

Normal being.

I'd say, after spending the afternoon with you guys. Yeah, I'll give you that. Pretty normal. As normal as I am, whatever.

That we got to be a little funny here and there, but overall we're pretty good, I'd say. So, yeah. You don't have to be intimidated by wine culture. We'll teach you as much as you want to learn or if you just want to experience.

We always want to make it fun and enjoyable. Then we can also do the educational side.

So what you could expect is essentially one of those quintessential wine experiences and connectivity to what comes from the vineyard to Leo to the glass, and then the rest of the team's warm, hospitable sense that comes around.

Nice. If people are not traveling to the area. I know you mentioned wine dinners. Where can people find out you are going to a city near them?

Joining our mailing list would be essential for that because once we get our upcoming plans, we'll make an announcement recorder and for distribution, it's limited to those 20 states. I say limited. Like 20 states is half the country.

20 is amazing.

Yeah, yeah. There's a few states that shipping directly to is a challenge but not always impossible.

So it depends, but if you wanted to host a in home wine tasting or an in home dinner, being on the mailing list would be the impression.

Perfect. So action item mailing list, people put the link in the show notes to the episode so people can find it very easily and sign up.

Any final thoughts before we wrap?

I would just say to those listening at home and our winery friends that we're seeing an interesting time in our industry. No doubt weather the storm for our industry friends and then drink plenty of wine for our folks at home on there.

There's a lot of really fantastic boutique and accessible brands that are out there. Never be afraid to ask questions.

All right, we're gonna wrap up with two rapid fire questions.

Okay.

You have five words or less to answer.

Okay.

And first, you'll go first and second and then we'll swap it so you don't feel like at a disadvantage. Okay. You know you're up first.

Okay.

Five words or less.

Okay.

Aha. Wine that made you want to do this?

1997 La Coya POW Mountain.

See, I knew you'd be able to pull it out there. Okay, that's a wine. Talk about a cold wine. La Coy. Yeah. All right, that's it. We're not gonna even unpack it any more than that.

Yeah.

Aha. Wine Joe.

2003 Sonoma Coast Flowers. Pinot.

No wine. Beautiful. Thanks to dad.

Yeah, that was thanks to dad.

Wow.

By the time that one aged, it was like, BlackBerry, and I'm like, wow.

Five words or less. Besides Napa and Sonoma, a favorite wine region in the world that you love to drink. Joe.

Ooh. Montalcino.

See? No hesitation.

Well, I'm at Valley, Oregon.

Damn it. Willamette. There we go.

Chardonnays, especially.

All right, that was like, six words. You know, you're done. You're cut off.

There's some really killer wines.

Well done.

I appreciate your time today, and we learned so much, not only about you guys individually as people, but then wines and what Ackerman is doing and why people need to have you on their radar, because this is really special, what you guys are doing from a winemaking, from a hospitality side. So thank you for sharing these gorgeous wines with me.

Yeah, of course. Thank you for sharing them with us.

Thank you.

Those wines were stunning, and I feel like I need new vocabulary and new words, because I have been using that word a lot with some of the things I've been tasting. But wow, I can't wait for you to try these wines. And if you visit their website, Ackerman Family Vineyards. Ackerman.

A C K E R m a n ackermanfamilyvineards.com you'll see the three wines that we tasted.

They can ship to most states, and as you heard Joe talk about, they are working on bringing Memoir to distribution. They've got 20 states already and more coming, but in the meantime, you can order right off their website.

I also want to encourage you to check out Ackerman on YouTube.

They have some wonderful videos and you can actually see Joe and Leo so you can put faces with the voices that you just heard and follow them on Instagram at Ackerman Family Vineyards Congratulations to Lauren and Christy, Joe and Leo, Alexia and the small but mighty team that they have there that is doing beautiful work as a small family owned winery. Speaking of small family winery, teeny tiny family winery.