Summary

Show Notes

1. Love as the Core Motivation

• Change begins with motivation.
• Ministry, gifts, and discipline fail without love.
• Love must be the foundation of everything.

2. The House Analogy

• Structure alone does not make a home livable.
• Spiritual systems may look perfect but won’t function without love.
• Love is what makes the “house” of God livable.

3. Frustration Around Fivefold Ministry

• Correct doctrine does not guarantee effectiveness.
• Recognition of offices does not produce maturity.
• The missing element is the impartation and appropriation of God’s love.

4. No Positions in the Family

• Christ alone holds the position.
• The fivefold ministry functions organically within the Body.
• Grace, not title, brings forth true ministry.

5. Love and Oneness

• Love cannot be separated from unity or fullness.
• Maturity comes through shared participation in love.
• Oneness emerges as love deepens.

6. Love Exposes the Opposite

• Pressing into love brings hidden division to the surface.
• Accusations and relational tensions test love.
• Laying down self-will is necessary for unity.

7. Love Sustains and Prevails

• The Lord prevails through love, not personal striving.
• Love keeps believers steady through backlash.
• Failure becomes an opportunity for cleansing and growth.

8. The Example of Moses

• Korah operated from position-thinking.
• Moses responded in humility and worship.
• Love trusts God to defend and establish.

Key Quotes

• “It’s all about motivation.”
• “If the true motivation of the love of the Lord’s not in your heart… things just fail.”
• “You can have all your doctrines correct… and yet things don’t work.”
• “There are no positions in the family.”
• “He’s the only one with the position.”
• “Without the love of Christ, you’re nothing.”
• “Take up the banner of love and oneness—we’re not going any further.”
• “The Lord will prevail—not you—but the Lord will prevail through you.”
• “The love of Christ controls us.”
• “It’s God’s love in all aspects of who we are and what we’re doing.”

Scriptural References

Takeaway

• The Body functions without striving.
• Positions fade and grace emerges.
• Christ prevails through His people.

Introduction

Ron: Welcome to Live Behind the Veil. I'm Ron, your host, and today we are asking a few important questions. What is the true foundation of spiritual life? Is it gifting, is it structure, or is it getting doctrines perfectly aligned? And this episode, we go beneath all of that to the root, the motivation of love.

Because no matter how right things look on the outside, if the love of God is not the driving force, they simply won't work. We explore why frustration in ministry often points to something deeper. Why position in the kingdom is not what we think it is and why Christ alone holds the place of authority if love is missing, nothing functions, but when love becomes a motivation, everything changes.

This is the motivation of love. The only foundation that works.

Ron: It's all about motivation. That's where the key of change is. That's where, where to move from is the motivation of love and faith. If you really meditate on that, you just realize how true that is, that it's not trying to have a ministry. It's not, it's not the gifts. It's not scheduling your life or disciplining your life.

I suppose all those things are a beginning in a walk with God as you go along. A lot of those things just fail if the true motivation of the love of the Lord's not in your heart.

Ken: I feel like when we're talking about this subject, you can think of it like a house first. You build a foundation that's going to house, you know what you're reaching into, all the details that make up the house. But then you come to the place where, what is going to make this house livable? What is going to make it actually be a home? And the thing that always gets me, and I run into this continually, I see a lot of things that are perfect and, and they, they seem like they should really be the cat's meow.

But then you try it and it doesn't work. And then I go back and say, why isn't that working, Lord? And then it hits me. I don't have the love, the motivation of love, to make it happen.

Ron: I had this conversation with this believer, and he, he's in a place of authority being a, a shepherd, many people looking to him as a father, a spiritual father. He keeps talking about the five-fold ministries and how they need to come forth and be recognized first in the church because they're what brings forth the, the body of Christ, matures the body of Christ, and yet he feels, in some senses, frustrated or delayed in this. I don't think he's a lone stranger in that.

I think there's a tremendous amount of frustration, confusion, and not understanding why things aren't moving ahead quicker. In certain circles, I think we're hitting a root. You can have all your doctrines correct, understand the principles of spirit, and yet things don't work. And it has to do, I think, with exactly what we're talking about, the love of God.

There's a level of the love of God that has to be imputed, imparted, appropriated by the people of God. And until that happens and until it's recognized, things just, they just don't work.

Mike: Love is the number one factor. It cannot be separated from either oneness or fullness or anything that comes forth from God. It's, it's who He is. In this subject here, what we're talking about, I have in my own personal vision of what's been happening with the body of Christ, I have felt that the fivefold ministry has been inculcated into the functioning of the body of Christ. And so we shouldn't be looking for something that God has already meshed into the functioning of the body of Christ.

It's not position, it's just the fact of life that it exists in our midst, but nobody's standing up there saying, I'm the apostle, or I'm the prophet, or I'm this or I'm that. You don't have to.

Ron: Right.

Mike: Because, right, you function in the presence of the Lord. And the Lord is the chief apostle. He's the chief prophet. He's the number one. Any one of those gifts you wanna mention, he's top dog in them all.

Ken: I love that because there are no positions. No positions in the family.

Mike: Yeah, this is a leaderless movement.

Ken: It's the body of Christ functioning.

Ed: It's by His grace, not by position, that the body of Christ is gonna come forth. In fact, if people have a position, that's one way to get away from it. He's the one with the position.

Debbie: He's the only one with the position.

Ed: And it's only by His grace that we can fulfill the ministry that we have. Exposing yourself to the purity of God and His love. It's gotta be an openness that you have to the love of Christ. And when you open up to that love, you can move mountains.

Debbie: Paul says, you can prophesy, you can speak, you could do all kinds of things. You could be an apostle, you could be a prophet, you could be an evangelist, a teacher. Doesn't matter what you are. Without the love of Christ, you're nothing. You're nothing.

The love of the Lord is so deep. It is beyond finding out, it says. His pure love, His heart, His cry. It says we'll, we'll have ministries, we'll have apostles and prophets and so forth up until, until the maturing of the sons. Right? Yeah. And I think the maturing of the sons, we all come one in the love. We all become one without knowing where the ministries are because we're all flowing in it. We have the love of the Lord.

Ron: It is amazing to me, the more that you, you try to reach in to this love and to the oneness, how everything comes up, everything opposite, everything that would create division and contention, withdrawal in relationships. It's mind boggling how it can just come to the surface until we lay down our desires and our wants and what we think is right. Until we lay it down, take up the banner of love and oneness, and that is our drive, we're not going any further.

Ed: You're determined to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. You better be ready for the backlash because it's gonna go back into your past and it's going to—people are gonna accuse you. And you have to hold on to the love of the Lord. If you will do that, the Lord will prevail. Not you, you won't prevail, but the Lord will prevail through you.

Ken: This love, the sustaining element in your own life, right, that keeps you from going crazy. Because honestly, there are some things that come up and you know, God, that's my brother and I love him. Right. But why am I not going there because of this love?

Debbie: The love of Christ controls us.

Ken: It controls, and, and that's what he talks about.

Mike: I think that's what Moses went through with Korah and the bunch, 'cause Korah and the bunch didn't have the love. They were operating in that position thinking. And Moses, in the love, I'm sure he loved these guys. He didn't wanna step into that. He left it up to God, and God showed His will and way. And unfortunately for Korah and his bunch, it don't exist anymore.

Ken: It didn't work. Well, what did Moses do? He fell on his face before the Lord and worshiped God. To me, that is the love that we're reaching in for. It's a sustaining, it's a, it's a driving, it's a motivation. It, it's everything that keeps us in the game. Mm-hmm.

Ron: That's why we have to be honest where we fail. It's okay to fail and, and be drawn up sharp because it exposes something that you can go, okay, Lord, help me with this. And then He will. He's faithful and righteous to forgive us, to cleanse us, and help us. I think that's why the Lord takes us through what we go through.

Ken: Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Ron: Just showing, okay, there's something here that needs to be dealt with. It doesn't have to be a big deal. This thing of love, I know I need it. I need a much deeper level of love for my brothers and sisters.

Debbie: That's what sustains us too. We have to have for one another, we have to have that love, that depth of love that would give their lives for each other.

Ken: This is the key. Mm-hmm. It's God's love in all aspects of who we are and what we're doing.

Summary

Ron: To summarize what we have heard today, we have said that as we press into the love of God, everything that opposes it rises to the surface. Division. Pride, self-will, none of it can survive in the presence of his love. And that's not a setback. It's part of the cleansing. The kingdom doesn't advance through position or recognition.

It advances when the love of Christ controls us. When we lay down our desires and take up the banner of oneness, the Lord prevails not by our strength, but through his life in us. May we seek not a title, not a ministry, not recognition, but a deeper impartation of his love, because in the end, love is not just part of the foundation.

It is the only foundation that works.