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Ep 16: Mindful Healing & Setting Personal Limits: An Interview with Liliana
Episode 16 • 11th October 2024 • Diary of a Recovering People Pleaser • Jenny Leckey
00:00:00 00:47:29

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"Rejection is a redirection to help you find your actual tribe, the people who will love you and accept you just the way that you are." - Liliana

In this episode ofDiary of a Recovering People Pleaser, Jenny has a heart-centered conversation with Lil (Liliana), who shares her transformative journey of overcoming people pleasing tendencies. 

The conversation explores how what we often learn as children reinforce these behaviors in adulthood. Lil shares techniques she's used to reparent herself to heal. Lil recounts pivotal moments in her healing journey, including her decision to separate from her husband and her crucial realization of the importance of setting personal boundaries without explanation. She discusses how therapy illuminated her people pleasing patterns. 

They emphasize the importance of self-care, reparenting your childhood wounds, and embracing imperfections on the road to recovery.

Tips like journaling and meditation are shared alongside inspiring stories, including a significant incident involving a magical story of messages from loved ones who have passed on. If you believe in signs from Spirit, then this story will touch your heart.

This episode urges listeners to recognize their own behavior patterns, highlighting the power of self-realization and grace in the healing journey. 

Books:

The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz

Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson

About the Host

Interested in being a guest? Email Jenny: info@meditatewithjenny.com

  • Work with Jenny - Book 1:1 Reiki or psychic channeled reading sessions. Offered virtually or in person in Buffalo, NY. Jenny also offers Reiki certification classes!

Copyright 2024 Jenny Leckey LLC

Transcripts

Lil:

How are you?

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Oh my gosh, I'm so good.

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I'm super excited to talk

about this kind of thing.

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I feel like we need to

talk about this stuff more,

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Jenny: I don't quite know when I learned

the phrase people pleaser, but it

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definitely wasn't until like my thirties

that I realized my patterns were that.

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It's it's finally becoming

something that people talk about.

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Thank goodness.

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But you're right.

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Having these conversations are so crucial.

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I

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Lil: think for so long, it was so

normalized for people to engage

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in people pleasing that we didn't

even realize that's what it was.

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If we even just think about like women

in the fifties and how emotionally

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unavailable men they still are, but

especially then, And we couldn't

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talk about those kinds of things.

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We would get called

names, needy or whatever.

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And it's I'm just expressing that I

need something like that's, everybody

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Jenny: has needs.

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Basic human instinct to

have needs and wants.

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Exactly.

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I really appreciate you being here

and volunteering to tell your story.

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Lil: I've done so much healing.

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That not that long ago, I would

have just scrolled past that

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because I discovered you on TikTok.

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And I would have just scrolled past

it because doing something like this

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would just give me so much anxiety.

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Yeah.

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What inspired you to start this?

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Like how did this come about?

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Jenny: I left teaching a few

years ago to take a leap of

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faith and start my own business.

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I do Reiki energy healing

and that kind of thing.

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But I knew that wasn't

where I was meant to be.

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In business they always say to niche down.

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To find your target audience and what

problem was your audience dealing with?

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And I struggled with that because

like with energy work, people

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have all different kinds of

problems and it just was off.

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Then actually one day

I'm a big voice memo fan.

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So my friends and I, a few of us, we send.

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The voice memos like basically mini

podcasts between you and your friend,

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I was driving down to Myrtle beach,

actually, and I don't even know

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what I was telling my friend about,

but it was this long ass message.

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And at the end I said, and that

sums up this week's episode of diary

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of a recovering people pleaser.

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And then I was like, holy shit,

it was the light bulb moment.

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Lil: It's funny because even before

I came across your video there's

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this coworker that we talk about

those kinds of things all the time.

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And I referenced to myself like that

always, I will always say as a recovering

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people pleaser, I have to say this.

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And that's awesome.

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It definitely resonates.

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Yeah.

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Jenny: That's amazing.

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I'm so glad you're here and as my first

official guest who I've never met in

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person, this is like next level for me.

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And I know you're excited too, because

you've been dying to share your story.

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So do you want to start off by

introducing yourself, telling

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us a little bit about yourself?

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Lil: My name is Lil.

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I grew up in Mexico till I was 18 and

then I came to the US for college.

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Currently I live in Idaho.

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I've had some pretty major

transformational shifts

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in my life recently.

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Back in 2020, I got

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Now, four years later we're

separated and I live in my own house.

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Oh yeah, that's a big

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Jenny: shift.

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Lil: Huge.

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Yeah, before I'm even

30, so that was crazy.

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But the whole process of even

Communicating to my husband that I needed

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to walk away from this relationship.

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That was a big step for me as a recovering

people pleaser, yeah, that was crazy

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because there was not really anything in

the relationship that felt bad it just

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was a relationship that wasn't meeting

my needs even when I had communicated

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those, and so to walk away from a person

who is kind, who does love me, but can't

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meet those needs, that was a Big thing

for me as a recovering people pleaser.

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Wow.

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You

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Jenny: are not just talking the talk.

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You are literally walking the

walk of holding boundaries,

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putting your needs first.

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Wow.

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I usually like to start by asking

people how do you define people pleasing?

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How did you know you

were a people pleaser?

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Is there a certain set of behaviors

that you noticed or beliefs?

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Lil: It all feels blurry because it

was definitely a gradual realization.

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When I started going to therapy

back in:

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that I was a people pleaser at all.

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And I don't think my therapist

even pointed it out explicitly.

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There's definitely a lot.

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I think especially when I think about

my romantic relationships, that was

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something that deeply affected things.

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And I didn't even realize that yes, I had

partners who were real shitty, honestly.

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Yeah, even if I had communicated what I

needed they wouldn't have met those needs.

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But especially now with this podcast

and the questions that you asked,

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I'm recognizing the people pleasing

behaviors in my past relationships that

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previously I was blaming the other person.

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Jenny: Oh, interesting.

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Okay.

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Lil: Yeah.

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Because as a people pleaser, I think

that you tend to minimize your needs

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and even maybe compromise and sacrifice

your own well being for the other

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person without them even asking.

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You just do it.

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And then me I expected

that to be reciprocated.

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And when it wasn't reciprocated

I interpreted that as rejection

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and withholding of love.

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Now, on this side of the recovering

people pleasing journey, I'm realizing

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that's not exactly how relationships work.

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Yes,

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Jenny: You can't see me right now

people, but I'm sitting here nodding

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my head because yes, I can 100

percent relate to what you're saying.

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Lil: Totally.

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There was definitely a lot there where,

In past relationships when I was in my

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early 20s that because I was expecting

the other person to reciprocate what I was

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doing, which was minimizing my own needs

and compromising without them asking.

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When they wouldn't reciprocate,

I would blame them for that.

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Not knowing that it was an unhealthy

behavior because that's how I grew

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up that was what was normal for me.

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Especially in the last couple of days

that I've realized I've looked back on

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those relationships where Felt for a

long time resentful against the other

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person and even maybe blamed them

for the downfall of the relationship.

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I'm realizing that It definitely takes

two, and if I had been more emotionally

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aware I know that those relationships

would have ended anyway, but at least , if

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I had been emotionally aware, I could have

communicated what I needed, and when I

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realized that those needs were not going

to be met, I could have walked away.

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I think that's the hardest part of The

people pleasing journey is like knowing

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when to walk away from something.

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Jenny: Oh gosh.

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Yes.

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I am the master of giving

people 5 million chances.

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Lil: Yeah.

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You don't want to lose that connection.

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When you're a people pleaser,

that's how, I received love.

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Growing up, I was an only child my

parents expected me to minimize my own

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needs for the sake of their good time.

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There was a lot of times where

we would go out to dinner or

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whatever with their friends.

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And even if it was a school night,

even if I was tired, even if I

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wanted to go home, those were not

things that I could communicate

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because then they would get upset.

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And so for me to be the good child,

I had to minimize those needs.

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And I thought that's how you

receive and exchange love.

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Yes,

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Jenny: somehow on Tik TOK, my

algorithm got into the eldest

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daughter, good girl behavior.

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Yeah.

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It's not a tick tock.

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I'm like, are you inside of my head?

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And it's similar to what you're saying.

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Only child ,eldest, same thing.

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I can't even think about how many

times from various adults in my life

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who said, Oh, Jenny's an old soul.

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She could, she's so reliable.

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I don't worry about her.

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I worry about the other kids.

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And that was considered a badge of honor.

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They give awards for that,

like in the classroom, right?

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You're a classroom leader!

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You're the peacekeeper!

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Yes, I know some of it are good

attributes, but also it's people pleasing!

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Because you're taught to fall in line

and conform and suppress anything that

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might make someone else uncomfortable.

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Lil: Ah!

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Suppress your own thoughts

and feelings and opinions for

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the sake of keeping the peace.

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Jenny: Oh gosh.

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Have you had this experience as a

recovering people pleaser, that when

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you finally have this realization of

hot damn, I've been censoring myself.

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And you don't know how to

really fully express yourself.

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Sometimes I swing the other way.

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It'll be pent up and then , it'll

word vomit out of me or burst

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out of me or maybe not handle

it in the best way because I'll

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maybe lash out at the wrong time.

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But it's because I'm still

learning that skill of speaking

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my mind, or is that just me?

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Lil: No, I think that's completely valid.

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I feel like when you start to recognize

that behavior and you want to correct

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it, there's times where you are able to

recognize it before you engage in it, but

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then you engage in it anyway, and it's

like breaking an addiction just because

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you recognize it before you engage in the

behavior doesn't mean that you've failed.

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It just means that's just a

part of the healing process.

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First part is to recognize it.

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And when you, okay.

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are able to recognize it and activate

that frontal lobe, then you're able

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to act on it and hopefully act in

the way that is most aligned with

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you the person that you want to be.

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Jenny: I love you said that

it doesn't make you wrong.

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Like you didn't mess up, basically,

if you notice that you're people

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pleasing or noticing that you're

maybe responding and not the best way

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and you don't fully catch yourself.

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The fact that you noticed it

in the first place is a win.

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I think that's huge because

another part of people pleasing

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is being a perfectionist.

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So if I can't win and get an A plus at

anti people pleasing, then I've failed.

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It's so black and white

a lot of the times.

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Lil: It really is.

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Cause there's a, there's definitely

a lot of self judgment and criticism

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that comes with people pleasing as well

because hindsight is always 20, 20.

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And when you look back at an interaction,

you're like I could have done this better.

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That's just part of learning how to come

out of this habit that you're having.

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It's not gonna be like oh i realize i'm

people pleasing one day and the next

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day i stop it is a long process that

has different stages and sometimes you

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regress a little bit but the regression

is just To help you propel forward.

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That a lot with babies when

they start to learn how to walk.

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They'll take their first steps or they'll

start walking and then one day they'll

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go back to crawling for a little bit.

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Yep.

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That's just a completely normal

part of developing a new skill.

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Jenny: I like that.

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Thank you for that clarity.

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So whenever you're beating yourself

up listeners, don't do that.

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Just think about the baby

is building his new skills.

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You're literally rewiring your

brain one interaction at a time.

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Totally.

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Is there a particular moment in

time that you can think of that was

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a turning point that just flipped

a switch for you and you're like,

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hell no, I'm not doing this anymore.

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Lil: I thought about this question

quite a bit and I honestly don't think

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that there was a turning point for

me where I had a light bulb moment.

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It was definitely very gradual as I

started to realize that, if someone

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says no to my extension to an invitation

to like, not take it personal, I

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think that was a big part of healing

that people pleasing tendency.

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Because if I can give other people grace

for needing to recharge or needing to do

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a rain check or maybe perhaps they don't

want to do the activity or whatever and

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giving other people grace about that

and realizing that it's not about me,

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then I can do that for myself as well.

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And I can hope maybe that other people

are also not taking my boundaries or

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my denial for an invitation personally.

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That was a big part, I think,

of my people picking journey.

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That's

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Jenny: huge.

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So diving into it, why do you think

it bothered you beforehand, before

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this realization, if someone said no?

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Lil: I think because

I took it so personal.

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I always thought it was

something that I did, or that

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I had to do something with me.

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Oh, this person doesn't

want to hang out with me.

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Or if they put up a boundary of I

don't like it when You do something

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to realize that it really has not

a whole lot to do with me and more

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with what the person is doing and

interpreting or what they're needing,

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understanding that everybody has their

own needs and understanding that them

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communicating that need is actually kind.

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Oh yeah.

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And it's healthy for our

relationship to move forward.

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How is it kind?

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What

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Jenny: do you mean by that?

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Lil: So for example, if I made plans with

a friend, and actually this happens to me

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often, I'll make plans in advance with a

person and then the day comes and, maybe

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I've been really busy for the last couple

of days, maybe I don't have enough sleep

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and I'm just not in the best mood to go

and do that activity with that person.

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Sometimes I'll have to reschedule

and say, I'm not feeling so good.

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Can we reschedule?

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And realizing that's more about how I'm

feeling and my needs and it has nothing

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to do with that person I love my friend

and I want to hang out with you, but I

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need to take care of me first so that

I can be in a good headspace so that we

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can fully enjoy our time together, right?

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So if I just decided to people please,

and not brain check and go, I might

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even cause more harm because that

person might internalize my Not upbeat

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mood as I don't want to be here when

in reality it's because I haven't met

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a need that I need to meet for myself.

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Jenny: Oh my gosh.

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That was perfectly put.

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So that's wonderful.

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I love that so much.

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It's true.

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You're you want to be the best version

of you when you're with your friends

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. Finding that balance between best version

of yourself for yourself, which would

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be putting up the boundary and giving

yourself rest and then putting on the

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best face you can for your friend.

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That's perfect.

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I love that so much and

not seeing it as rejection.

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I guess maybe part of my story with people

saying no with people pleasing is that I

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would give so much and my friendships and

relationships would feel so one sided.

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Because I was abandoning

myself the whole friggin time.

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I was like, I did this for this person

I went and did that, even though, blah,

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blah, blah, I was feeling like crap dah.

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And then I asked them to do one thing,

and they can't even do this for me.

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It goes back to what you were saying

about they didn't sign up for me to do

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all that, they didn't ask for me to

abandon myself and do stuff when I felt

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like shit and everything like that.

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I just went and did it and then

expected them to reciprocate and

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then to receive that no would feel

like a little slap in the face.

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Lil: That makes a lot of sense to

be honest, because That's how I feel

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like I developed my people pleasing

tendencies in childhood because

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that was how we exchanged love.

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When you grow up and you expect that from

other people who maybe don't engage in

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people pleasing, taking care of themselves

feels like they're rejecting you.

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Jenny: It's like an outsider when

an outsider comes into life with a

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family and they don't people please.

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You're thinking, what are you doing?

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We don't say no.

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If someone has this family

gathering, you go unless you're

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sick with COVID or pneumonia or your

legs broken, you're going right.

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Yeah.

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I don't feel good.

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You can't make it.

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Yeah.

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Lil: Yeah, and then that

justification too, right?

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Like it has to be something like

so major for you to be able to say

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no to something when like filling

your own cup, it should be major

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enough should be justified enough.

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If I just need to be alone for a couple

hours, because that's what I need.

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That's justification enough.

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And I think a lot of the time as people

pleaser it doesn't feel like it because

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we're so used to suppressing those needs.

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And being just a little bit uncomfortable

for the sake of everybody else.

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Jenny: Yes, spot on.

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One thing I've noticed and one thing

I think is really important in this

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journey is that just because I am where

I am in my healing journey doesn't

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mean everyone else is where I am.

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And I can't expect them to be where I am.

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So I have butted heads with people and

I still do, and that will still happen.

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And then they will butt heads with me

cause that's just human nature, but just

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because I had this epiphany and all of

a sudden I decide I know what this word

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boundaries means and I'm going to start

saying stuff differently doesn't mean

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they necessarily are caught up yet.

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And that's okay.

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I think holding space

for people not judging.

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Lil: It's definitely

always a work in progress.

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I often will say being on

this side of healing that

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doesn't mean that I'm healed.

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It just means that I've overcome

some pretty large obstacles.

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You never stop learning.

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It's a work in progress from

when you're born until you die.

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Jenny: I was just writing down what you

wrote, being on this side of healing.

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I love that.

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I love that phrase.

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Lil: There's always little things

that we can do to be kinder to

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ourselves and to the people around us.

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Putting out boundaries at first, it

feels really selfish and then you

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might not go about it in the best way.

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I know that when I started putting

up boundaries with, my mom, for

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example I definitely look back and I

wish that I could have handled that

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better, but that was my first time,

and especially it was a pretty pretty

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big milestone for me cause I'd never

put up a boundary with my parents ever.

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For me to be hard on myself because

I didn't handle it perfectly.

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I mean, That's silly, right?

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Because, no one does anything

perfectly the first time they try it.

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Jenny: Are there any things like

maybe techniques or habits that

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you'd recommend that have helped you.

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Like for me, I'll meditate or, do breath

work . How are you kind to yourself?

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How do you set aside time for yourself?

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Lil: That's a really good question.

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Oftentimes, especially in the beginning,

when I was learning how to do this.

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I would think a lot about child

me, and how some of the stuff that

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little me went through that maybe

she wasn't quite as understood or

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given the kindness that maybe she needed.

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Cause I'm a highly sensitive person.

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I've always been that way.

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It was really hard actually to

admit that and be okay with it.

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And even now I'm proud that I'm a

highly sensitive person, but for a

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long time, it was a source of shame

because feeling things so deeply

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it's not something that's praised

and it's often something that people

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laugh at or would like to make fun of.

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But going back to your question I

often try to think of little me and

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the times when she should have been

treated with a little more kindness.

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I go back to those memories and I

re parent myself in that moment and

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think, what would little me, what

would she need to hear in order to

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feel better about the situation?

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And whatever comes out, it's usually some

form of gentle parenting is what I try

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to implement in my life currently as a

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Jenny: dog.

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For folks who've never heard of that,

are you doing that through journaling,

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through meditation, are you literally

talking out loud to yourself?

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Oh, I

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Lil: do it in all kinds of ways, yeah.

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Because

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:

Jenny: people might not be familiar with

this, especially if you've never been

372

:

to therapy, can you give some examples?

373

:

Lil: Yeah, when I started going to

therapy, I was so ready to heal.

374

:

So a lot of things happened very quickly

for me, but the biggest thing that helped

375

:

me was journaling, definitely just writing

things out as they come up in my head and

376

:

not worrying about how it reads , it's

just putting down your thoughts on paper.

377

:

It's like an emotional release

almost because you're putting it

378

:

out there and then you can go back

and read it and you'll notice things

379

:

that you wrote down that maybe you

didn't even realize you were feeling.

380

:

Or you can even maybe sometimes notice

patterns as you do it more and you

381

:

go back and reread it, you'll notice

patterns of behaviors or patterns of

382

:

how your parents chose to deal with

things and how that affected you and how

383

:

that is manifesting in your adult life.

384

:

So journaling was a

really big help for me.

385

:

But also going on walks,

it was very therapeutic.

386

:

I would go on walks with my dog by

myself, and I wouldn't listen to

387

:

anything, I would just walk and allow

my mind to wander, and a lot of times

388

:

that was really healing for me, because

I would be able to pinpoint the source

389

:

of some of my people pleasing behaviors.

390

:

Jenny: When you're

391

:

Lil: able to go back to the source,

most of the time, is childhood.

392

:

So when you're able to go back and

realize, Oh, I'm a people pleased

393

:

because, my parents did this thing.

394

:

Then you can heal that and you can

see that was just in my childhood.

395

:

That was a coping mechanism I developed.

396

:

I'm grateful for that coping mechanism

because it helped me survive my childhood.

397

:

And now I can release it and let it

go because it's no longer serving me.

398

:

I'm an adult now.

399

:

I can fight my own battles now.

400

:

Jenny: That was amazing.

401

:

It's spot on.

402

:

I guess one thing I want to add to is.

403

:

It's almost like you go through the phases

of grief when you're doing this healing,

404

:

and one of them might be anger, and yes,

I know you might get angry at the parental

405

:

figures, the adults who maybe set up

circumstances for you to have these coping

406

:

mechanisms like you mentioned, and you

might get angry and frustrated about that.

407

:

But I think it's important to not

point a finger and place blame to,

408

:

you might have those moments where you

have an adult hissy fit meltdown, of

409

:

course, go ahead let it out, all right?

410

:

But I have seen people get stuck in that

phase of their healing and you're not

411

:

really healing, you're just activating

your ego and now your ego found another

412

:

enemy and you're still the victim.

413

:

That's not very empowering, right?

414

:

Whereas what you said, you looked at

it analytically, you're like, okay.

415

:

I see this, and this is the cause,

and now this is the effect, and now

416

:

I don't want this neuron connection

in my brain anymore, so we're gonna

417

:

replace it with something different.

418

:

I like that.

419

:

It's very it's more along the lines

of scientific, but more stoic, little

420

:

stoicism, Buddhist approach to it.

421

:

I like that.

422

:

Lil: Yeah, totally.

423

:

And it's not something that

came easily for me either.

424

:

Now I can talk about it in a chronological

way and the steps that I took, but it

425

:

wasn't like that in the beginning, I also

went through that stage of grief, because

426

:

my dad actually he passed away in 2019.

427

:

And yeah, with your loss.

428

:

It sucked.

429

:

I'm not gonna lie.

430

:

I can't imagine.

431

:

Yeah.

432

:

Oh, yeah, it sucked real fucking bad,

but It was almost like a catalyst When

433

:

I started going through the stages of

grief and I entered my angry stage, at

434

:

first I was mad at the world and then

I was mad at him for dying and then All

435

:

of these childhood memories started

to pop up like all of the positive

436

:

ones because you start to reminisce

about, your parent and whatever.

437

:

And along with those memories

came the not so good times, right?

438

:

And so I was very angry for a really long

time about how my parents chose to handle

439

:

certain things and I was so mad at them.

440

:

Like, why couldn't you have been better?

441

:

But the thing that we need to

remember is that the childhood

442

:

wounds that your parents give you

are their own childhood wounds.

443

:

Yes,

444

:

Jenny: exactly.

445

:

They're human.

446

:

Lil: Exactly.

447

:

That was a really big realization for

me , because I know for a fact that

448

:

my dad did a much better job raising

me than his parents did with him.

449

:

But that doesn't mean that

he didn't traumatize me.

450

:

Of course he did.

451

:

Yeah.

452

:

But thinking about him

453

:

as a child experiencing that trauma

that he then passed on to me was really

454

:

eye opening and it was so much easier

to release the anger and to forgive

455

:

him for that because he was also just

a little kid who developed those coping

456

:

mechanisms that he then passed on to me.

457

:

Jenny: Oh gosh, you that is so good.

458

:

I'm so glad you brought that up.

459

:

I think that helps to empathizing

with what our parents have gone

460

:

through, like you said, and kind

of part of this process for me too

461

:

was taking them off of a pedestal.

462

:

Oh, it's my parents.

463

:

No, they're humans.

464

:

They're going to fuck up.

465

:

They're going to make mistakes.

466

:

They have their own stress and

trauma and troubles and all of that.

467

:

And like you said, of course, some

of that's going to transfer to you.

468

:

My mom and I talk about this a lot.

469

:

My mom and I always get in philosophical

discussions, but we were talking

470

:

about this recently about generational

wounds, I guess you'd say, or trauma.

471

:

And we really thought about, like, how

much my mom has healed from what was given

472

:

to her by her mom, but how my grandma

healed what was given to her by her mom,

473

:

my great grandma, and so forth and so on.

474

:

It really does improve if

you look at the big picture.

475

:

People are doing their best.

476

:

They're healing what they

can in their generation.

477

:

And Now it's on us to do a little

bit more work and heal a little

478

:

bit more and pass on a little

less trauma, I guess you'd say.

479

:

I will say I'm so grateful to be

alive at this time because this

480

:

podcast wouldn't have existed.

481

:

Maybe it wouldn't even existed

20 years ago, 10 years ago, but

482

:

definitely wouldn't be talked

about or even open to discussion.

483

:

Like when my mom was a teenager in

twenties or thirties, definitely not.

484

:

So that's where as an elder millennial,

I will pat myself on the back and

485

:

say, I am part of the generation

who helped normalize mental health.

486

:

Yeah, absolutely.

487

:

I'm kidding, but it's true.

488

:

We are the ones like who really

started Hey, it's okay to

489

:

say this doesn't feel right.

490

:

Or I don't like this or therapy's good.

491

:

I should go to therapy or.

492

:

Self care in general isn't selfish.

493

:

It doesn't mean you're an asshole.

494

:

Yeah,

495

:

Lil: self care is not

496

:

Jenny: selfish.

497

:

We've been talking about some heavy stuff.

498

:

Let's go a little lighter.

499

:

I know you must have a story or two

about a success you had where you felt

500

:

like a freaking rock star, where you

accomplished one of your people pleaser

501

:

goals, felt like you're on cloud nine.

502

:

You get the drill.

503

:

What stories do you have

504

:

Lil: for us?

505

:

I can't believe I didn't think

of this story until literally

506

:

20 seconds ago, which because

this is a huge story in my life.

507

:

So a few months ago,

this was back in January.

508

:

I was hanging out with some friends

that I hadn't known for very long.

509

:

I was in Portland for a work

trip, and they invited me over,

510

:

we were going to have dinner.

511

:

But as we were hanging out,

the couple started making some

512

:

pretty uncomfortable remarks.

513

:

the aura in the room was very negative,

and I was very uncomfortable with

514

:

the stuff that they were saying.

515

:

They had actually picked me up from

my hotel and brought me over to

516

:

their house, so I also didn't want

them to like, drive me back, and Oh,

517

:

you felt trapped, that's the worst!

518

:

I was like, trapped, and after a moment,

I was like, I don't have to be here.

519

:

I don't have to take this.

520

:

So I took my limited funds that I

had and I ordered myself an Uber.

521

:

Good for you.

522

:

Once the ride was confirmed,

I gathered all my shit and I

523

:

was like, you know what guys?

524

:

I'm going to head out.

525

:

I'm not feeling well,

which was a lie, but yeah,

526

:

Jenny: that's all right.

527

:

You don't always have to go

guns blazing stirring the pot

528

:

.

Lil: A good old easy phrase is the best way.

529

:

Totally.

530

:

, they wanted to know more.

531

:

Like they kept asking me questions

like, Oh no, what's wrong.

532

:

Do you want us to drive you back?

533

:

And I was like, Nope, don't drive me back.

534

:

I'm good.

535

:

I'm just going to go.

536

:

I didn't explain why I didn't

care what they thought about

537

:

me, which is like huge for me.

538

:

This was like the first time that I'd

ever done anything like that, where I

539

:

left an uncomfortable situation without

giving explanations and without giving

540

:

a fuck what they thought about me.

541

:

Oh my God.

542

:

Oh, I was like, adrenaline was surging.

543

:

I was shaking everywhere.

544

:

And so I go outside to wait for my Uber.

545

:

It was supposed to be there

in two minutes, but it took

546

:

like way longer than that.

547

:

The woman ask me if I wanted

to talk or if I was okay.

548

:

And I was like, Nope, my Uber

is going to be here in a minute.

549

:

I wasn't rude to her, but

I also wasn't friendly.

550

:

And I just said, I'm good.

551

:

Please leave me alone.

552

:

So she left.

553

:

Thankfully, and my Uber arrived,

which was this lovely woman,

554

:

which I was like, Oh, good.

555

:

Like a girl.

556

:

Thank you.

557

:

Yeah.

558

:

Yeah.

559

:

Yeah.

560

:

Unfortunately, but

561

:

Jenny: yes, I totally get it.

562

:

Lil: Yeah.

563

:

Because I was distraught because it was

the first time I'd ever done anything like

564

:

that, and I was feeling very emotional.

565

:

So I enter this Uber, and

something I should note is

566

:

that my, my dad and I use signs

567

:

to communicate from

him from the afterlife.

568

:

One of them is hummingbirds, and I

actually have a hummingbird tattoo.

569

:

Oh, it's beautiful.

570

:

Yeah.

571

:

On my arm.

572

:

And so I enter this Uber, and after

a minute, I look up and hanging

573

:

from her rear view mirror, she had

two little crystal hummingbirds.

574

:

Stop.

575

:

Yeah.

576

:

Oh my God.

577

:

That's amazing.

578

:

And that's when I fucking lost my shit.

579

:

Falling in the back of this Uber.

580

:

And this poor woman's Oh

my gosh, are you okay?

581

:

And I told her, this was the first time

in my life I had the courage to leave

582

:

a situation I was uncomfortable in

without caring to explain and without

583

:

caring what they thought about me.

584

:

And she said, good job is what she

told me, which it felt so good.

585

:

Yeah.

586

:

Oh my God.

587

:

That's amazing.

588

:

I told her, I was like, my dad and

I've been feeling like he's been around

589

:

me and he loved hummingbirds and here

you are rescuing me from the situation

590

:

with your crystal hummingbirds.

591

:

And she goes, if that isn't confirmation

because my son who passed away

592

:

five years ago loved hummingbirds.

593

:

Oh my god, you're gonna make me cry.

594

:

And that's why, yeah, that's

why she had the little crystal

595

:

hummingbirds on her rear view mirror.

596

:

It was just such a beautiful thing to not

only be like proud of myself for walking

597

:

away from that situation, but it felt like

I was getting this beautiful blessing of

598

:

being able to connect with this person.

599

:

, with the hummingbirds and our

past loved ones oh my gosh.

600

:

It was so powerful.

601

:

Jenny: And the fact that she had

two hummingbirds, you said, right?

602

:

Lil: Yeah.

603

:

Jenny: Oh, it was like

her son and your dad.

604

:

Oh my gosh.

605

:

Yeah, I'm tearing up.

606

:

Oh

607

:

Lil: my

608

:

Jenny: god.

609

:

Wow.

610

:

You can't make this stuff up.

611

:

You just can't.

612

:

Lil: I couldn't believe it.

613

:

Jenny: You can't make

this spiritual stuff up.

614

:

It's amazing.

615

:

Lil: I honestly couldn't believe it

when it happened, and it was something

616

:

that I was not expecting at all, but,

yeah, I definitely felt like my dad

617

:

was like, clapping, applauding me from

the other side and said, You know what?

618

:

Here's your reward.

619

:

I'm gonna send you a person that

you're gonna feel safe with.

620

:

And, you know I'm here for ya,

cause Here's the hummingbirds.

621

:

Jenny: Wow.

622

:

And to feel seen and heard and to know

that there are kind people out there

623

:

too, that's a nice reminder that

they all aren't like those people who

624

:

you were , trying to get away from.

625

:

It was really

626

:

Lil: interesting too, cause I

got back to my hotel room and

627

:

I immediately blocked them.

628

:

I was like, fuck that.

629

:

You don't

630

:

Jenny: know.

631

:

Oh, I thought I was going to ask

you do you have to ever say that?

632

:

See them again or

633

:

Lil: no?

634

:

Never.

635

:

I don't even live in Portland, so like

I'll probably never see them again.

636

:

But , they tried to call me, they like

messaged me and I was like, I'm not

637

:

even gonna waste my time and energy

explaining myself to you because it was

638

:

a boundary that I had already established

with them that they decided to cross.

639

:

And so I was like, I'm not even

going to go there with you.

640

:

Like block.

641

:

Jenny: And they knew.

642

:

They knew exactly what they were doing.

643

:

Don't ask.

644

:

Absolutely.

645

:

You knew.

646

:

Don't ask.

647

:

Apologize.

648

:

Yeah.

649

:

Oh, the fact that you didn't

overexplain yourself is freaking huge.

650

:

I feel like that you just graduated

people pleaser recovery high school with

651

:

that because over explaining yourself

is like the go to people pleaser.

652

:

Yeah.

653

:

I don't know response.

654

:

It's fallback habit, when you

put a boundary down, you feel

655

:

like you have to explain yourself

because you're like, I did it, but

656

:

wait, I don't want you mad at me.

657

:

So this is why I'm doing

658

:

Lil: Yeah, it was surprisingly

not hard that time.

659

:

I think it was because I had that big

confirmation that I was doing the right

660

:

thing that I didn't second guess myself

after, so that was super helpful.

661

:

It's interesting, because that

night, I dreamt that I proposed

662

:

to myself, and that I said yes.

663

:

Oh my gosh, wow!

664

:

It was it was a very powerful

experience, because it's yes, I'm

665

:

finally, Committing to myself, and I'm

always going to choose myself, I'm not

666

:

going to minimize my needs, or allow

people to cross my boundaries without

667

:

walking away, because I need to choose

myself, first and foremost, always.

668

:

Jenny: You have given us tons of

great advice and great scenarios

669

:

that you've worked through.

670

:

Is there any book or speaker or

event, whatever it may be that you

671

:

would recommend that really helps

teach you these foundational skills?

672

:

Lil: I think a really big eye opening

book for me was Adult Children

673

:

of Emotionally Immature Parents.

674

:

Jenny: Oh, I've never heard of

675

:

Lil: it.

676

:

, I Listened to it a few years ago.

677

:

I probably need a refresher now, but

it was really interesting to be able to

678

:

see how parenting styles and behaviors

affect a child and how that manifests

679

:

in adulthood and the flip side of what

is a better way to handle those things.

680

:

It also touches on how to

essentially gentle parent your own

681

:

parents to help you have a more

healthy relationship with them.

682

:

I think that everyone who has had

emotionally immature parents should

683

:

listen to or read that book, because

it was really eye opening for me.

684

:

Jenny: Amazing.

685

:

Okay.

686

:

And it is posted in the show notes.

687

:

So y'all can just click on the link

and see what we're talking about.

688

:

Thank you so much for recommending that.

689

:

Lil: One thing that I heard this saying a

while ago and it was very profound for me.

690

:

It goes, you may be the sweetest peach on

the tree, but not everybody likes peaches.

691

:

Ah, yes.

692

:

That's so

693

:

Jenny: good.

694

:

Lil: It is.

695

:

It's amazing because you can alter

yourself and minimize yourself

696

:

all you want, but you're not

going to be liked by everybody.

697

:

And that's okay.

698

:

When you experience rejection from

other people it's redirection to

699

:

help you find your actual tribe,

the people who will love you and

700

:

accept you just the way that you are.

701

:

And if you continue to try to

change yourself or minimize yourself

702

:

to appease those who don't like

peaches, you're never going to find

703

:

Jenny: your tribe.

704

:

. I'm writing down what you just wrote.

705

:

Rejection is a redirection.

706

:

Lil: When we take rejection so

personal, it stops us from moving

707

:

forward to where we're supposed to go.

708

:

And actually that reminds me, there is

one more book that I'd like to recommend.

709

:

Are you going to say the four agreements?

710

:

Jenny: Yes.

711

:

I didn't mean to steal your

thunder, but I just had this

712

:

feeling of things you were saying.

713

:

I'm like, Oh my God, be

impeccable with your words.

714

:

Don't make assumptions.

715

:

I had a feeling you'd read that.

716

:

Yes.

717

:

Lil: That was amazing.

718

:

It's like you read my mind.

719

:

The Four Agreements was amazing.

720

:

It really does help you see things

through in a different perspective.

721

:

And the practice of not taking

things personal is difficult,

722

:

especially if it's something that

you've been doing over a long time.

723

:

But I think it definitely goes hand

in hand with people pleasing behavior.

724

:

Because when you're not taking things

personal, then you're not worried about

725

:

other people taking things personal.

726

:

Because if they do, that's

something that they need to work on.

727

:

Yes.

728

:

And it has nothing to do with you.

729

:

That's the thing that has also really

helped me with my people pleasing.

730

:

Nothing ever has anything to do with me.

731

:

Everyone else, including

myself, is always projecting.

732

:

So I'm not going to worry

about people taking what I said

733

:

wrong or taking it personal.

734

:

If it's the right person, they'll

either understand or they will ask

735

:

me to clarify and ask questions.

736

:

Jenny: Exactly, you hit it spot on.

737

:

I always try to run my actions

through the four agreements too.

738

:

It's am I being impeccable with my words?

739

:

And did I do my best in that interaction?

740

:

If I did those two things then

I'm not going to feel bad.

741

:

I wasn't an asshole.

742

:

Maybe my best was only 50

percent of what I'm capable of.

743

:

But in that space and time where

I was mentally, emotionally,

744

:

physically, did I do my best?

745

:

Okay.

746

:

And if not, like humble

yourself and say, you're sorry.

747

:

I think the other side of it too, is it's

not a permission slip to go out guns a

748

:

blazing and be an asshole to people either

but I totally get what you're saying.

749

:

Exactly.

750

:

You can't take it personally,

which yeah that's hard.

751

:

And,

752

:

Lil: to give others and yourself grace,

people are going to make mistakes,

753

:

someone might step on my triggers too.

754

:

And I might not act or react the way

that I want to be, but that happens.

755

:

And to know and understand

that everyone has their own

756

:

buttons that need to be healed.

757

:

And maybe perhaps.

758

:

Sometimes they get pushed, I think

that's a big part of not taking things

759

:

personal because everyone is healing.

760

:

Everyone's got their own story.

761

:

Everyone's got different things going on.

762

:

So giving them grace and giving

yourself grace for when you do mess up.

763

:

That's a huge part of healing too.

764

:

Definitely.

765

:

Jenny: This is reminding me, I

feel like this is a good place to

766

:

tell this quick little, parable,

proverb, it's a little story.

767

:

It's about this Zen master who was

out in a boat in the middle of a lake.

768

:

Have you heard this before?

769

:

I don't think so.

770

:

I think, I can't remember

where I read this.

771

:

I did not write this.

772

:

This is very old.

773

:

It's like a, I think it's a Chinese

proverb I think I read this in The

774

:

Power of Now from Eckhart Tolle.

775

:

Don't quote me on that.

776

:

But anyway, the short version of

it is there's this Zen master, so

777

:

you're thinking, meditates all the

time, very peaceful, very calm, very

778

:

demure, as they would say on TikTok.

779

:

Very demure, very

cutesy, very calm, right?

780

:

Very mindful.

781

:

So he just, he gets up early at

the sunrise and decides to take

782

:

his wooden boat out to the middle

of the lake for the sunrise to

783

:

meditate and there's no one around.

784

:

It's very peaceful.

785

:

Sounds amazing.

786

:

So he goes out there in

the middle of the lake.

787

:

He's floating on this boat.

788

:

His eyes are closed

because he's meditating.

789

:

And then all of a sudden this other

boat slams into his boat, sends him

790

:

rocking and he instantly gets angry.

791

:

And this mind goes to who do

you think you are in this entire

792

:

lake and you bump into my boat?

793

:

Don't you see I'm meditating?

794

:

This is my version of it.

795

:

But then he opens his eyes and he

sees that the other boat is empty.

796

:

And then he realizes that the anger

is within him, not outside of him.

797

:

The anger is within

him, not outside of him.

798

:

When I read that, That changed my life.

799

:

For those of you who are not catching

it, what it means is that the whole

800

:

world is constantly bumping into you.

801

:

And if it agitates you, it's because

there's a little spark of something that

802

:

needs to be healed within you, right?

803

:

The anger or frustration, all

the feeling, any emotion is

804

:

within, it's not outside of you.

805

:

So if you're taking things personally,

that's a sign that there's something

806

:

within you that isn't feeling heard,

seen, that needs to come to the

807

:

surface to be examined and healed.

808

:

Lil: Absolutely.

809

:

100%.

810

:

Doing those little check ins with

yourself when you start feeling a

811

:

negative feeling, whether that is anger,

jealousy, frustration, whatever it is.

812

:

A lot of the time I think we

tend to attribute it it's because

813

:

this person is doing something.

814

:

Jenny: Yes.

815

:

But

816

:

Lil: when we go back and we do that

little bit of a self reflection and

817

:

try to get to the root of why something

like that is frustrating, you'll find

818

:

a lot of the time that it's like you

said, something that you need to heal.

819

:

Jenny: When you start looking at

things like that, it really does

820

:

help you take some more personal

responsibility, but also I feel that

821

:

is what empowers you because you feel

helpless if it's the outside world.

822

:

Causing your pain.

823

:

The outside world's always

going to be a pain in the ass.

824

:

So you gave away all your power.

825

:

But if you look inward and realize

that's where everything lies,

826

:

now you can do some changing.

827

:

Lil: I actually have a

quick example about that.

828

:

I'm training this new person

at work who took my old job.

829

:

And I found myself getting frustrated

the other day because I had explained

830

:

something to her and then she

didn't do it or something like that.

831

:

And I was getting like

annoyed at her and stuff.

832

:

But when I was

833

:

truly honest with myself, I was

really more annoyed because she's

834

:

actually really efficient and she's

a really hard worker and I was

835

:

feeling threatened that maybe she was

doing a better job in that position

836

:

than I was when I was in that job.

837

:

Oh, interesting.

838

:

And so it has absolutely nothing

to do with her at all and really

839

:

more about my own insecurity of was

I doing as good a job as she is?

840

:

Jenny: That's some deep reflection.

841

:

That's huge.

842

:

Not everyone is at that point to

be able to handle that, right?

843

:

That's amazing.

844

:

Lil: It definitely took a lot of practice

and, it, you get to it by going through

845

:

whatever resistance you're feeling.

846

:

Because I feel like at first, my

instinct was always to deny that.

847

:

I was having envious feelings because

maybe I was too proud to admit

848

:

that I was having those feelings

because, oh my gosh, I'm so zen.

849

:

I'm so healed.

850

:

But no it's always a work in progress.

851

:

as I practice it more and more, it's

more automatic now when I have a negative

852

:

feeling bubble up, and it's more automatic

my process of looking inward, but it

853

:

definitely took a lot of effort at first.

854

:

It's hard, and it's almost like being

In front of a mirror looking at things

855

:

that maybe you feel shame about and

that's really hard to be face to face

856

:

with the things that you feel shame

about, but when you're able to move

857

:

past it, forgive yourself and do better,

it really opens up a huge door for

858

:

healing and internal healing evolvement.

859

:

Jenny: There's definitely a payoff

at the end through the suffering.

860

:

There's light at the end of the tunnel.

861

:

And sometimes you'll

regress and it's fine.

862

:

That's why this podcast

is called Recovering.

863

:

Doesn't say recovered.

864

:

I don't think I'll ever be recovered.

865

:

I always go back to brain science.

866

:

You're rewiring your brain.

867

:

And for me, I'm 41.

868

:

This has been 41 years of

repetitive belief systems.

869

:

It's not just going to change overnight.

870

:

Those neuron connections are hard wired.

871

:

So it's going to take a lot of repetition

the other way to disengage that and

872

:

make the other one the dominant path.

873

:

I asked all of my guests.

874

:

What is their bumper sticker statement?

875

:

What is their piece of advice

that they put on a bumper sticker?

876

:

But I feel like you

already dropped that gem.

877

:

What was it again?

878

:

Lil: My mantra that I think will help a

lot of people cause it helps me a lot is

879

:

you may be the sweetest peach on the tree.

880

:

But not everybody likes peaches.

881

:

Jenny: Yes.

882

:

It's so good.

883

:

I can visualize it with a peach tree.

884

:

It's perfect.

885

:

I love that so much.

886

:

Yeah.

887

:

And there are peach pickers out there

and they might like a bushel of peaches,

888

:

but you don't have to get hung up on

the people who like apples or pears.

889

:

I love it.

890

:

It's a great analogy.

891

:

.

Lil: There's a tribe out there for everybody.

892

:

You just got to find the right one.

893

:

So don't hang your hat on the ones

that it's just not right for you.

894

:

Exactly.

895

:

This was super cool.

896

:

And I love the conversation and this was

897

:

Jenny: great.

898

:

Thank you for being vulnerable and

sharing your stories and your struggles

899

:

and how you persevered through them.

900

:

And the fact that you made

it an empowering perspective

901

:

of I'm still healing.

902

:

It's not a weakness.

903

:

It's a strength.

904

:

I think that's a huge

message that you shared.

905

:

I'm grateful for you for doing that.

906

:

Thank you.

907

:

Lil: It's a lot harder to heal, I

think, and to be vulnerable than it

908

:

is to just avoid it and move forward.

909

:

Yes.

910

:

But the payoff is worth it.

911

:

Oh my gosh.

912

:

The payoff is so amazing.

913

:

It's so empowering If you've never

back into your own cup when you first

914

:

start doing it, that shit's addicting.

915

:

Like I, there's just absolutely

no way that I will never

916

:

not pour into my own cup.

917

:

Because I've spent way too much

of my life not doing that, and

918

:

now that I've done it, it feels

so good that I'm never going back.

919

:

Jenny: It's one of those things

like you can't unknow it.

920

:

You can't unsee it.

921

:

You can't un experience it.

922

:

Yep.

923

:

You're inspiring me to do that.

924

:

I've still struggled

sometimes with balance.

925

:

It's hard being a business

owner and finding time for

926

:

yourself, but you're right.

927

:

It's really important.

928

:

Lil: I always think of , are

you into tarot at all?

929

:

Yeah.

930

:

Jenny: Tarot and I like Oracle decks

too, like angel cards and stuff.

931

:

Lil: Totally.

932

:

Yeah.

933

:

one of my cards that I really like

is temperance, a temperance card.

934

:

Cause she's balancing.

935

:

She's balancing all of the elements

along with having one foot in the

936

:

ground and one foot in the divine.

937

:

One of the quotes that I had in that

book, for my deck it says, The difference

938

:

between an amateur and a professional is

that the professional makes it look easy.

939

:

Yeah.

940

:

Balancing all of the human things, It's

difficult, and you're gonna mess it up.

941

:

When you see other people who

seemingly are really good at balancing

942

:

it, it's because probably they

have a lot of practice doing it.

943

:

So that's all you need,

is just more practice.

944

:

Jenny: I think that's a

perfect point to end on.

945

:

Don't have to do everything at once.

946

:

Just start small.

947

:

Lil: You don't have to see the whole

staircase to take the first step.

948

:

Jenny: Exactly.

949

:

I appreciate you taking time to share

your stories and speak with me today.

950

:

This has been amazing.

951

:

I'm so glad to have met you

from half a country away.

952

:

Lil: Yeah.

953

:

Super cool.

954

:

Thank you for having me.

955

:

This was lovely.

956

:

Thank you.

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