Drummer Michael Bland — longtime member of Prince and The New Power Generation — joins Musicians Reveal with Joe Kelley for a deep and revealing conversation about his journey through one of the most legendary eras in music.

In Part 1, Bland shares how he first connected with Prince through the Minneapolis music scene and what it was like stepping into Paisley Park during a pivotal moment in Prince’s career. He reflects on rehearsals, recording sessions, and the demanding environment that pushed musicians to their highest level.

Bland also opens up about life as a working musician, his time with Soul Asylum, and how the pandemic reshaped his perspective on music, touring, and the future of the industry.

🥁 This is a must-listen for Prince fans, musicians, and anyone interested in the discipline, creativity, and intensity behind one of the greatest bands in music history.

About to talk to one of our longtime friends of our show, Joe Kelly Radio.

He has been the drummer with Soul Asylum for I think close to 17 years.

He also was the longest recording and member of Prince and the New Power Generation all through the years.

And he is a world class legendary drummer and musician.

A great guy to welcome all the way from Minneapolis, Mr. Michael Bland.

How you doing, Michael?

I'm doing all right, man.

I just had to turn my phone off.

Somebody was blowing me up.

That's okay.

Yeah.

So are you all set?

Sure, sure, sure.

So you're back in hurry up and wait mode, right?

As Soul Asylum.

How you've been dealing with it the last, last past year,

I think I've been taking it in stride because my job is a sort of forced socialization.

I really do appreciate time by myself.

I didn't need this much, but it's led me to a lot of self reflection and the contemplation of diversifying my role in the music business.

And maybe I've thought about a lot of things.

I've thought about teaching, I've thought about doing webinars.

I've thought about a lot of stuff that I haven't actually put into motion just yet.

But I see the necessity of diversification much more clearly now than I ever have.

And of course, some of the things you mentioned, I mean, you'd be pretty much in demand.

Webinars and you know, master classes be right up your alley.

People be going for that.

Yeah, I mean, I, I'd like to imagine, I mean, there's only one way to find out, obviously.

But yeah, so it's been a lot of self discovery and a lot of analysis and a whole lot of musical output.

I mean, I've been doing a lot of writing and recording collaboration over, you know, over Zoom, you know, Skype or Facetime or, you know, whatever platform, you know, works for some people.

So it hasn't really slowed me down.

It just forced me into a different space.

I. I taught myself how to run Prologic 10.

That's one of the first things that I did when I got off the road because Soul Asylum was on the road until March 12th last year.

We left on like the 9th or the 10th.

We left Minnesota on a prevost on a tour bus and okay, our last gig was at the Terragram Ballroom in Los Angeles.

Great gig.

Into the night.

Into the night.

I hear the owner talking to the staff saying something about our capacity is going to be shut down to half.

And like he's.

We've been living on this tube, you know, and a lot of the time our satellite wasn't working.

So personally was not aware that this was turning into a pandemic.

I had heard some, you know, some smatterings here and there, you know, whatever I could glean whenever I had MSNBC on, but a lot of the time I didn't.

I just didn't know what was going on.

And it really came to a head when we got to San Diego in the morning and all of the remaining gigs of the tour had been canceled or rescheduled for next year.

Oh, how much of a gut punch is that?

Well, that's.

That's something.

Especially when you're, you know, you're supposed to be playing the Belly up, you know, tavern that night, and you can't even get in the building.

So it's just like, whoa, okay, this thing is serious.

And I kind of knew what's going on because my brother was managing a hotel out in Beijing and.

And he flew back to.

Right around that time to California.

He was able to get back in the country with him and his wife, and they went to Las Vegas and quarantined for like, three weeks in the back.

They had a little house in the back, and he's not going back, so.

Well, I mean, yeah, it's deep.

You know, it's.

And a lot of countries have gone through this before, but the first time around with, you know, with the United States and, you know, there's a culture of.

What do they call it, rugged individualism, you know, and that's basically what's been holding up, you know, a lot of the progress.

You know, these are the people who don't want to wear masks.

They don't want to social distance.

They want to.

In my case, these are the people who want to go cross the river or go to Wisconsin and party down and, you know, come back, infecting the rest of us.

So, you know, I see people, you know, out of my master bedroom, you know, you know, just walking and talking like nothing's going on out there.

Wow.

It's so.

I mean, it is what it is, but it just, you know, we forget that America is a young child, you know, and it has tantrums, and I won't do it.

There's a lot of that, you know, and a friend of mine who lives in Wisconsin who actually had a. I had a little.

Little podcast type jam with him called Music Music Politics.

His name is Dan spiffy Newman and 37 years old for.

Only person I knew at the time who Caught Covid and he had to go on a ventilator for.

He was in the hospital for 23 days.

Eleven of them he spent on a ventilator.

Before they put him under, he had to say goodbye to his wife in the event that he wouldn't come out.

You know, it's like, it's.

People don't realize how deep it can get.

You know, unfortunately, last night, I was up last night, I got an appointment from my wife and I Saturday, we're going to get the vaccine, so.

Oh, right on, man.

That was good.

Yeah, but it's like you're.

It's like you're staking out Ticketmaster online trying to get concert tickets.

I mean, after what you're so wired, you're just like, you know, take it at 4 o' clock or fall asleep.

Yeah, well, it's.

How about your way with the vaccine?

Are you guys any close to getting it?

I mean, actually, just before, like a little bit ago, one of my.

A person that my wife is working with who's a kind of an important person in the world of diversity and inclusion, apparently they.

They gave her a list of she'd get 100 people vaccinated.

And so my wife just told.

Just told me this morning that we may be able to be on that list.

So.

A glimmer of hope for everybody.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I'm.

As a black person, I still have my, you know, my skeptics.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, it's hard to erase that.

And I'm, you know, I'm trying to take it seriously and, you know, I imagine that I will just go along with it if we can do it.

But, you know, it's a.

That's.

That, that's a.

It's not going to be easy for me in my brain.

Right.

But I mean, also, you know, bad news travels fast.

You hear about all the different incidences where people got it and something went wrong and we, you know, it's.

It's.

It's.

Yeah, it's a trial and error thing.

It's a trial and error thing, man.

We guinea pigs, Joe.

And that, you know, it's better to have it, you know, than to die.

Than to die for sure or.

But either way, you're taking a risk.

So.

Yeah, my.

My uncle's a retired internist, and he always used to say they call it medical practice for a reason, because a lot of times they're practicing.

Yeah.

And I get it.

You know, there's, there's.

With every Movement forward.

You know, that some people, you know, there's always a sacrifice somewhere.

And I don't think of myself necessarily in that respect or regard.

You know, I don't expect to lose my life getting a vaccine.

But, you know, there's a lot of factors that we can't control.

And, you know, especially in the business that I'm in, if I'm going to return to the touring world when it's supposed to be, you know, when it starts to open up, you know, I'm going to need some sort of.

Some form of protection.

Yeah, because you're in the midst of who knows what.

Yeah.

You know, and we have.

Yeah, we got potential dates in June.

It's coming up as early as June.

Outdoor shows.

Yeah, outdoor shows.

And, you know, so it could be timely.

You know, I imagine for the.

For the general welfare of those who I'm around, the best idea is to just go ahead and get the shot if I can get it.

So my special guest right now, he's been on the show numerous Times.

Great guy, Mr. Michael Bland out of Minneapolis St. Paul.

And he's taking a little break force because of COVID sole asylum.

And 17 years.

I wasn't wrong on that.

Right.

Well, either.

I kind of.

We started working together in 04, sometime between 04 and 05.

I got.

I was in.

In, you know, so I guess it's.

How many years is that?

Yeah, 16 or so.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So.

So everybody, we all know, we first became familiar with working with Prince and the new power Generation.

Of course, that was a long, long stretch.

And, you know, you got back together recording and doing some live gigs with them years after that.

But to commit yourself to a band right now, you're member of Soul Asylum for so long, in your mind, what did you make that decision?

Like, hey, this is where I'm going to stay right now for a while.

Yeah, I did.

I found.

During the years in between when I was working for Prince and when I joined Soul Asylum, I had a lot of great adventures.

I did a lot of work overseas.

I toured with some name artists.

And I think the thing that I found was that I get better results working with people who are from where I'm from.

There's a certain kind of work ethic that goes on here.

That's not.

It's colloquial.

I haven't found it anywhere else in the country.

And usually when it is working, it's because I've transplanted musicians who I'm familiar with into positions that I Have the wherewithal of the authority to.

The first thing that I did.

Sonny and I were called to sub for a different rhythm section with this Italian artist in 97.

Her name is Giorgia.

And they wanted a bass player and a drummer who, you know, were used to working with each other, who developed a rapport and whatnot.

So we got the call and we went out there and it turned into a regular gig for us.

So the next thing I know, I made the musical director.

So the first.

The first thing I do when it's time to switch up guitar players and keyboard players is call Tommy Barbarella and Mike Scott.

So the four of us are over there together, you know, just killing it.

Because we all came, we all fought the same war, trained in the same army.

So, you know, it was.

The band was incredible.

And I guess I've had enough varied experience with people from other parts of the country and in the world to know that nobody does what we do.

Like, nobody does it like Minneapolis musicians do it.

There's a different connection to the process.

I'm not sure if it's geographical or because we get seven months of winter every year or, you know, where it forces you to really hone your craft.

And, you know, most of the songwriters that I know, Paul Westerberg, Dave Perner, Prince, these are people who write or wrote at a pathological level.

Like, it's.

Like it's what they do.

We're working on a new record right now with Soul Asylum.

Okay.

Yeah.

Dave texted me at 6:30 in the morning to talk about Led Zeppelin for a minute.

Like he has.

He's.

He doesn't sleep too well anyway, but he's really, you know, he's.

He's always at it.

It's always happening.

You know, you guys are rich and to get back together, go back on the road and finish this rope.

It's gonna be the follow up to Hurry up and Wait.

Right?

Well, we can only hope our label is really is who's putting the pressure on, like, hey, if you guys come out, you know, got something, we're ready to put it out.

Everybody's looking for a little, you know, little action, a little reason to keep moving forward.

Right, right.

So if we can provide that, that's great.

You know, I mean, Hurry up and Wait is the best selling album Soul Asylum has had since the 90s.

So it was not a small deal.

It was a big victory for the band.

And then Covid comes along and cuts that tour short and, you know, and dashes the hopes of Anybody doing anything for a year.

So.

So, you know, at least the demand

for fan base is still strong as ever.

So.

That's exactly.

So at least we have some.

Yeah, we have something to get out there for and it's.

So the best we can hope for is a warm reception, you know, and continued success, really.

I mean, that's what it's all about for us at this point is proving that, you know, you can still, you know, be relevant and produce a viable and competitive result in this day and age.

You know, we're battling, you know, 15 year olds.

Right.

You know, but if you come to one of our shows, you know, it's, you know, we do what we do, Joe.

It's a rugby fight on that stage.

Right, right.

And you played.

I haven't been able to make it.

But you've come to Connecticut a few times and played the Wolf Den, right, at the Casin.

Yeah, I missed the last couple of Wolf Den gigs.

But you played the Jin.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So.

And what ended up happening was Sterling Campbell, the drummer from like the Grave Dancers Union period and Let yout Dim Light Shine.

But so Sterling lives in New York, so he would just, you know, either take the train or you know, like drive up to the Wolf Den and he covered those shows.

Oh, okay, cool.

So you know, then the fans get a special treat because you know, they, he was in all the videos and whatnot, so they know him and you know, it's a homecoming.

But nice, nice little spot.

Yeah, nice little thing for him to do.

He doesn't have to go far from home.

Right.

And because I think he's, he's a musical Director for the B52s so.

Oh, okay.

He, he works plenty.

Oh yeah, yeah, Bland is here.

Oh, go ahead, Mike.

No, no, go ahead, man.

Go do.

I was gonna say we're talking with Michael Bland here on Joe Kelly Radio and reminisce and about some of the other stuff with Soul Asylum.

You know, we had a good buddy of years, Dave.

Dave Hanania on a couple weeks ago.

Yeah, I guess we could seg right into the early days when you were a teenager and Prince finding out about you because Davon and Mia, he's told this story several times and probably you.

But he felt it was the best six bucks he spent to able to see you twice a week playing with Mambo's.

Combo.

And I mean, he, he is forever indebted to you.

He's just, you know, it's great to see that admiration between these musicians.

Yeah, that's cool.

I mean, that's.

I get it.

And it's, you know, I was happy to be a resource to the community in that respect, but the reality is that Dave Anania always had.

He was always a gifted drummer.

He didn't need me to bring that out.

I guess whatever I did for him, only he can say.

But he would have been perfectly fine, I'm sure, if he would have got it from somebody else if he didn't get it from me.

Right, right.

Yeah, he's a great player.

Great guy too.

So, you know, that time was around the time Prince was, as he's known to do in the past, go out to the clubs, see what's the local talent, and maybe say, can they hang with me and, you know, jam with me?

What was it like those early days?

And how did you get hooked up with Prince?

Wow.

Well, I mean, how can I condense this story, I guess to tell the important parts.

I was playing with the Combo, but they had taken a Wednesday night regular gig at another club other than playing at Bunkers on Monday.

So I was double booked.

I had a gig at the Whiskey Junction with a different band entirely.

So when Prince happened to walk into the Fine Line and see the Combo, he saw them without me.

But he recognized Margaret Cox from her work with Jesse Johnson doing Tamara and the Scene and whatnot.

And so they got talking and I guess he was like, well, you know, it's loud in here.

Can we, you know, can you join me in my limo for a minute?

So he took her out to the limo and he's like, you guys are really good.

That's a great band.

And she was like, oh, you ought to hear us with our normal.

Our regular drummer.

He's this kid, he grew up over southeast Minneapolis like me, and he's a really good drummer.

And she piqued Prince's interest.

So he shows up the following Monday, you know, and, you know, kind of, you know, eyeballs the band and checking things out and comes up to sit in.

And I think that he more or less felt my potential immediately.

Cause that led to a series of invitations out to Paisley park to, you know, he would have parties out there on a pretty regular basis and also invited us out there to hear some unreleased material.

I think the Batman record was just coming out and Bat Dance had been out, had already been number one, and Whatnot.

And he invited us out after the gig one week to come hear the record in its entirety before it came out.

And that led to playing some music from Graffiti Bridge.

And then he ended up working with Margaret in the studio.

So we all got a chance to contribute in that respect.

And it all kind of just led to, you know, an official job offer.

Now, your first tour with him was the new tour, right?

Yes.

Which, yeah, Japan.

There's a really good.

I mean, you probably seen this a million times with a really cool overhead shot of you playing drums.

Oh, yeah, the.

When we.

I think that was from the Tokyo Party Man.

Right?

Yeah, right, right, yeah.

So the drum.

Drum set up there, Prince allowed you pretty much to.

To get what you wanted to make it that elaborate.

I mean, you had a lot of drums.

Well, you know, I ordinarily probably wouldn't have gone that far with it.

He kind of.

He pushed me in that direction.

And in the video for Party Man, I had like a 32 inch kick drum.

And he was like, you know, when it came time to get a new kit for the tour, he was like, you know, you should make sure, you know, you get a big kick like, you know, like we had in the video and, you know, like, you know, just like, you know, get an impressive looking kit.

So, I mean, yeah, that was.

That kick drum on the new Tour was a 26 and then it was a Yamaha recording.

Custom with.

Custom.

They actually.

Custom.

They did the hardware in some kind of gold plating or something.

Like it was a custom job.

Like a custom custom job.

26 inch kick.

The toms were 12, 13, 15 and then two floor toms, 16 and 18, and then just, you know, I mean, whatever.

Zildjian was the first company to really openly, you know, embrace, extending.

They extended an endorsement deal right away.

Yamaha was.

I didn't get to be endorsed by Yamaha until actually like 97 or 98 after I had done my run with Prince, because they really wanted their name on the, you know, the front of the kick drum head and so on and so forth.

A lot of them, you know, a lot of companies are like that.

And I told the rep that I spoke to, I'm like, well, she lives with Yamaha and, you know, she didn't do that.

And they were like, well, our relationship with the Escovedo family has gone on for many years.

And, you know, so they gave me that and I'm like, okay, I see.

So the next time it, you know, it was time to update.

I went to sonar, I moved to A different company.

I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, I see how it is.

I don't.

I don't have to play Yamaha.

There are other companies out there that are happy to, you know, and.

And so I took advantage of that.

And basically there's a guy they call Hoggy.

Hagi was high up at Yamaha in Japan.

And basically once he heard that I was free and out of that camp, he sent someone to contact me to say that they wanted me.

And to this day, I'm forever grateful to Haaghi because the first thing I said was, well, I'm not with Prince anymore.

And they said, well, Hagi says he doesn't care.

You're a great musician, so you're bound to, you know, continue to work with great artists.

It wasn't a question for Hoggy.

And I never got to meet Hoggy in person.

I mean, he's still alive.

You know, we'll chit chat sometimes on Facebook and whatnot.

But, yeah, that's a debt I could never repay.

You know, Michael Bland is here, Drummer extraordinaire Prince in the New Power generation.

And currently 17 years going on more for Soul Asylum.

Of course, he still makes his home out in Minneapolis, St. Paul area.

And, you know, we're talking about the Prince tours that you toured with him and rehearsals.

Were they all the same, the rehearsals as grueling, or did they kind of lessen up as Prince got older?

And, you know, you guys jammed together for so long.

No, no, no, no.

Okay.

It was the most grueling one.

They didn't lighten up.

They tightened up.

Especially when the band got kind of whittled down to the four of us and Maite, when It was just Mr. Hayes, Barbarella, Sonny and me.

That meant you could get people together more quickly, you know, and on a more frequent basis.

So, you know, in many ways, we missed Levi and Rosie and Tony and Damon and Kirk because it was a.

You know, we had more time away then.

I got you.

But it was.

It got to the point where it was like we were living at Paisley Park.

How about.

How about the Glam Slam shows on Florida?

He was.

He was mixing the sound on stage.

Right.

I think that was the first time he experimented with that.

Yes.

Yeah.

In public, anyway.

How for you, did it affect you, your playing, or was it difficult?

He was not so much mixing the monitors.

He was mixing the front of house.

Oh, okay, I gotcha.

Yeah.

Which actually it would have been, you know, better for the audience if it had been the other way around.

Right, right.

It was hit or miss.

I mean, he wasn't the first person to actually try that, you know, but the thing.

The most incredible thing about Prince was that he wasn't afraid to try anything.

And that's also the curse, is that if you don't, when you rely on your personal ingenuity, viewpoint, and intellectualism for the choices that you make.

Prince was very much the type of guy who.

I recently heard an interview that my friend Audrey Johnson did of Dave Hampton and Susan Rogers, and Dave Hampton was talking about how you couldn't just say no to Prince.

You had to have a good reason why not.

And I related to that completely when he said that Prince was not the type of person who.

You could just say, well, that.

That can't work.

You could never be dismissive, you know, with him.

That, number one, if you're an employee, you're not supposed to in the first place.

But it was never a simple no, was never simple.

Like, you had to explain to him, how come?

Why not?

And Dave talks about this in his interview with Audrey, saying that pretty much, you're talking about somebody who believed in themselves and their own vision so forcefully that the immutable laws of physics were unsatisfactory to him.

Right.

You understand what I'm saying, Joe?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Dave had to give a scientific explanation about why certain things couldn't happen, at least on Earth, you know, and he would approach the questioning.

From what I gleaned from the interview, he's like, well, Prince, that could be possible if gravity worked like this.

You know, if, you know, the.

You know, if physics didn't work in this particular way, it would be obtainable here in our environment on Earth.

But until those things are available to us, you know, it.

I don't know of a way.

Now, now, with your experience, the longest member of Prince's entourage, you know, musical collaborators, you have the longest tenure through the years, Right?

That's what.

That's what they keep saying.

Yeah.

And I'm.

I'll say that, you know, what I've learned is that, you know, let people just, you know, there are people out there who.

Who think of this as one big contest.

And you know what I mean?

Like, every time I look up, there's a poll, you know, I mean, even though in Prince's interview with Chris Rock, he names me as the front runner, I don't know if people just forgot about that.

It's like I am the drummer he chose with his dream band.

So, you know.

Right.

Yeah.

It's like they keep you Know, okay, all right.

I just don't.

I don't really engage.

Prince said it himself, so I don't feel a need to, you know, to wave that flag.

He waved it for me.

So, you know, to me that the contest is over and done.

In that.

In that department, there's nothing to discuss.

Speaking of that interview with Chris Rock, I was outside.

It was like a general admission standing room.

And I was freezing my ass out on the streets in New York, Roseland, waiting to get in.

But he was doing the interview was in January or February.

Oh, boy.

He got in there and it was.

You know, I found out later he was doing the interview with Chris Rock.

It was a great show.

It was, you know, Roseland and everything.

It was great.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's.

You know, that's the other thing I tell people.

It's like they were like, well, what do you think of his bands?

Before or after?

I'm like, listen, what I learned from working with Prince is that you gotta be a bad person.

You gotta be bad if you're gonna hang with friends.

I don't care which band you were in, who came before me or after, you had to have real talent and a real ability to remember things.

You know, like, you had to have good recall.

Like, it wasn't just about how many chops you got, you know, it had to do with how quickly you can turn a result, how quickly you can understand what's happening around you.

Like, your reflexes and your impulses all have to be in alignment.

You gotta almost, you know, it's like Prince always.

He would say this thing like, you know, if I could clone myself, you know, I would just have a band of me, you know?

So, I mean, I think he expected of all of us to really, like, almost read his mind, really.

You know, it.

I don't know how else to put it.

It's like, you should know where this is going.

You know, we.

There's, you know, quantum entanglement exists.

You are, you know, we are all, you know, operating on the same energy on the same axis, you know.

Now let me ask you something.

To all the concert tours and everything, we see Prince, you know, perfection all the time.

But, you know, of course, there's.

There's the miscues occasionally.

And I was at Radio City when you were doing the Act 1 tour, and he did a.

He took a fall during the Scandalous or Insatiable, took a slide on the floor.

And when stuff like that happens, Prince, when you guys are reviewing the concert tape, does he make any comments on it or just lets it slide?

Oh, he was.

You know, he always had a pretty good sense of humor about himself.

Right.

Okay.

You know, I don't.

It wasn't like fast forward or anything, you know.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I mean, thinking back, I don't know if I would have noticed anyway.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And you're on stage.

Yeah.

It's just.

I mean, I noticed.

I saw it happen, but it's not.

I can't.

It's like I can go, Prince and jump off the drums and go.

I had to cover it.

Great.

He just popped, right.

Probably popped up into a split.

Well, it would happen from time to time.

One time, I remember we were playing somewhere in Europe and it was raining, and he came out, he did that thing where, you know, he's sliding on his heels and he almost went off the front edge of the stage.

You know, I mean, he was.

It's funny because in conversations in my mind with him sometimes that I have, he will tell me, like, you really.

You know, you didn't take the time to enjoy the time that we had, you know, together.

We had fun.

We funked all over the planet, you know, and you were so reserved and, you know, unwilling to just let yourself completely, you know, just go with it.

And I'm explaining to him like that luxury is.

Was always reserved for you.

I had to be a good soldier.

I couldn't be spontaneous or.

What's the word?

Lackadaisical in my duties.

I couldn't.

All I could do was focus on the job.

I have a lot of moments that I appreciate now that kind of come back to me.

But in the moment, failure is not an option, you know.

When was the last time that you were in contact with Prince?

Before his passing.

I did a recording session with him about a month before he passed.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And it was me.

Oh, it was you and Sonny.

No, it was me and I. Adrian Crutchfield was there.

Oh, okay.

On Sacks.

Yeah, yeah.

And Mono Neon was in the control room with Prince.

And I never saw him and I never got to speak to him.

He doesn't speak too much.

I heard you gotta ask mono the right questions.

Oh, okay.

That's it.

He's a lot like a friend of mine who I considered and consider the world's greatest guitar player.

His name was Jeffrey Lee Johnson.

Oh, yeah.

Mutual friend.

Yeah.

Great guy.

He was, you know, the end all be all in guitar players, as far as I'm concerned.

He, Mano, was kind of a disciple of Jeff.

And Sonny, actually Mono was playing in one of the configurations of the bands that were going to be performing.

And one day he got there early, and we were rehearsing with Morris and Tommy, and it was like.

It was early going in the rehearsals, and Mono was there, and he seemed that Sonny was already playing bass.

So he picked up a guitar, and right away I was like, I recognize that sound.

I recognize the sense of space.

I.

It was like that sound is the sound of somebody who studied Jeff.

Jeff Lee Johnson.

And I asked him, I said, you listen to Jeff?

And he just said, yeah, like, of course.

Who wouldn't, you know?

And I don't know if.

I don't know if I've told you the story, but Jeff came up from Philly and he performed in the studio on my show twice with him and Chico Huff and Ted Thomas.

What?

And, yeah, yeah, I've got the record.

I got everything.

I gotta send it to you.

So that was the trio, man.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was.

And sadly, Ted Thomas just passed away from COVID What?

I didn't even know.

Yeah, it happened a few months ago.

Yeah, very sad.

That explains.

I tried to message him on Facebook and never got a response.

That's crazy.

Yeah, yeah.

If you look it up, maybe there was.

You see the obituary in Google or something.

Yeah, all right.

But.

Yeah, but the.

The.

You're talking about Jeff and everything.

A man, A few words, you know, he walked in the studio with a big, large pizza for everybody.

Just drove up from Philly with the guys.

I brought pizza, and we went in the back room, and we were jumping between these two studios.

We recorded in the back room, the live stuff.

And I said, you want to do a sound check?

He says, no, let's just play.

And he just went straight in.

And the thing is, I couldn't do a sound check.

And Ted had his full drum set in there.

So he.

On the first song, he basically.

It was a.

The drummer got the solo.

He was featured on the whole track.

He was so loud.

Yeah, I got you even out the levels after a while.

Oh, yeah, yeah, after a while.

But, you know, they were.

They were laughing because he.

I think he did the song.

Oh, we had to do the songs first because he had to go into New York.

He was the drummer with amrom.

Okay.

So he was rushing to the show, and we went to see Jeff at the Knitting Factory in New York.

It was A great show.

Same guys were playing.

And then I got home the next day from work, and he left a message on my.

On my phone.

He's like, I really appreciate you invited us up this to.

He's really, really thankful and everything, but he goes, I'm thinking of leaving the business.

You know, he was like a torture genius.

Yeah.

You know, I saw somebody recently.

I can't remember who it was.

I saw talking about this, like, if.

If people keep.

Oh, they were talking about Patrice o'.

Neill.

It was.

I saw a documentary recently.

Yeah.

On Comedy Central, and they were talking about how he'd rather have somebody walk up to him, say, man, you suck, you know, than to say, you're the greatest comedian in the world, you know, because his surroundings didn't look like that.

Like, he.

You know, he led his life, but he didn't lead the life of, like, Eddie Murphy or.

Or somebody who had the spoils of success.

And I think part of that was his unwillingness to play the game.

And that's fine.

Some people are not made for the game.

I get that.

Jeff Lee, similar situation.

I saw people all the time walking up to him saying, you changed my life.

You're the world's greatest guitar player.

And he was like, tell my bank account that.

You know.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, literally, there was a jazz festival in France, and I knew one of the guys who was there who was working on the staff, and he talked about how Jeff Beck was just in awe of Jeffrey Lee Johnson.

And, you know, Jeff was kind of freaked out by it.

Like, the dude, you're Jeff Beck.

I'm nobody in your universe.

You know, I also heard that when Jesse Johnson joined d', Angelo, Jeff was.

He was working with.

What's her name now?

Oh, yeah.

Esperanza's father.

That's right.

So I don't know if that affected the fact that he couldn't go out with d' Angelo at the time, or.

In any case, they called Jeff and asked him to take the train up from Philly to kind of run the book while Jesse was there.

So Jesse could kind of catch the vibe.

And I heard that Jesse was like, why don't y' all just take this dude?

Like, you know, And Jesse.

Sonny and I did a trio gig with Jesse a couple years back.

But, I mean, you talking about a natural on guitar.

Jesse is.

He's born to do it, you know, like, really.

Like, our rehearsals were so intense.

Cause Jesse just plays with this conviction and this.

I mean, he's just an endless vocabulary.

Just a Natural guitar player.

His rhythm is so.

So in the pocket, so funky, you know.

Did you guys record anything as a trio?

No, we did not.

He had a new record he had just finished.

And so, no, it didn't lead to that.

It was.

It was.

I mean, the only, you know, part that was kind of odd was that, you know, we.

We played a lot of stuff.

You know, we had, like, three days of rehearsal for this gig, and there was so much jamming going on that, you know, we.

The.

The workload really kind of suffered.

And we got to the gig and it was like, what are we gonna play?

You know, we just played the blues and B flat for 30 minutes yesterday.

You know, we like, are we gonna do that here?

You know, so I wish we had taken more.

We'd been more responsible, but Jesse was trying to get his chops together.

You know, he hadn't been playing so much at the time, so we did what he needed to do to feel comfortable.

So, you know, the gig came off all right.

But I guess I'm just saying, like, any.

Any guitar player could appreciate what Jeffrey Lee Johnson had to offer.

Is all I'm really saying is that he was.

He was a guitar player, you know, for guitar players.

Right, right.

But.

Yeah, but also could.

But also could.

I mean, he played with d'.

Angelo.

He didn't.

Didn't have to do all that.

He would sit there on how does it.

How does it Feel?

And just play the beep.

Yeah.

You know, he told me one time, he says he was on, like, a major hit record, a number one record in the studio, and he was saying the girl couldn't sing one bit.

You know, fixed her voice up and everything.

He never said who it was.

But, you know, I guess that side of the business, of course, didn't appeal to him too much.

No, but what's funny is that he did actually play on.

On a Mariah Carey record.

He played on several tracks on the.

Is it the Emancipation of Me Me or whatever.

Oh, okay.

Oh, he was on that.

Okay.

Jeff played on that.

Randy Jackson hired him and I guess, you know, it was like.

Like Mariah was really, like, digging his style.

You know, she was, you know, like, they got to talking and then, like, you know, some gopher or some handler came out and, like, you know, spirited her away.

But it was like they really got along, like, you know, so I think it really comes down to, you know, the fact that it is a.

It's a grab bag.

You don't know how people are gonna be, what kind of Talent they really got, you know, till you get in the studio and, you know, it's.

It's a complicated business, man.

You know, and.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

It just.

I mean, in respect to that, the.

There's.

I don't know.

I don't know if I can even really verbalize what I'm trying to say.

It's just that you have to balance all these things, you know, and it's not like a normal job where you just go and you do your thing, you eat your tea sandwich at noon and, you know, it's not that.

It's like we're dealing with tone and vibration and taste and, you know, there's so many subjective aspects to it that, you know, it's hard to tell exactly what goes wrong when it doesn't work, because there's the potential in every corner.

Right.

So I get it.

Yeah.

You're your own business enterprise as well, right?

Music business.

Yeah.

I mean, really?

Yeah.

You were kind of all your stuff.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, I have an llc, but, you know, it's.

You know, it's.

It's a complicated business to be in.

And that's why I guess I've poured water on so many people coming up to me trying to get lessons or get their kids involved.

I'm like, you don't know what you're asking for.

This is not a life for anyone unless that kid's got the curse.

He'll just shine it on and keep moving.

And I'm like, you don't have to encourage musicians to play music.

You don't need to encourage them.

It will happen on their own.

You know, how do I get my kid involved in music?

Don't teach them how to do, you know, mathematics.

Teach them how to do, you know, teach them a viable skill, you know, that has a predictable pathway.

Because.

Because this is not.

Everybody ain't made to do what we do.

Yeah, well, you definitely, you know, since you were a young kid up till now and in your 50s, really just, you know, looking back and everything we've been talking about is, you know, I'm wowed by it.

But it's just been your life and your passion, right?

Yeah, I mean, I.

It's.

Without the curse.

I mean, it's like, why do you give a drummer perfect pitch?

Because, God, why.

Why did you do that?

Why do I need to have so much information?

You know, you read music or you just.

You just play?

Well, I never really developed my reading chop so well because my ears tell me everything.

I have perfect pitch.

I don't need an instrument in front of me to tell you what notes you're playing wrong.

Okay.

That's how deep it goes for me.

Wow.

Bernie Worrell was like that.

He told me.

Yeah, who's that?

Bernie Worrell.

I believe that by how he played.

Jeff Lee had perfect pitch.

Sonny has perfect pitch.

You know, it's a.

There's a few of us out there, and it can be frustrating for us dealing with people who don't, you know,

because

I hear music like most people see colors.

I'm actually colorblind with a couple of different.

A couple of different, like reds and greens confuse me.

Certain browns.

You still driving?

Oh, man, I've never been.

I don't drive.

Oh, really?

Okay.

I was just joking.

Oh, no, no, no, I don't.

Yeah, my wife tried.

Yeah, I tried once, man, but it's.

I was a danger on the road.

Okay.

So I thought I'd, you know, I mean, I actually knew a guy who drove drunk in high school and killed everybody in the car but himself.

Oh, wow.

And it changed his life and in a bad way.

And I always thought to myself, I'd never want to be in that position.

I'd rather go, you know.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have to live with all that pain.

Yeah.

But, you know, thank God I've never been in an actual, like a car accident.

You know, I've walked away from some dodgy flights in my life, you know, so I've been kept.

You know, I was.

I was talking.

Not on air, but I was talking a couple months ago with your buddy Chance Howard, and he.

He really had a bad accident.

Oh, Lord.

Yeah, I. I didn't do that until I talked to him.

Sorry.

Go ahead, though.

Yeah, no, no, I think, I think we probably talked about the same stuff, but yeah, he's.

He's working his way back from some serious injuries and he just says he was over tired and coast to coast and he was.

Another musician, still plays at the club and just fell asleep, he said.

Yeah, he said it was.

He fell asleep 80ft away from his house.

Oh, wow.

I think he had done a double nighter in Chicago and then had two gigs back to back at the Dakota Jazz Club here in Minneapolis.

Right.

And I think he said it was at the end of the first night, he just fell asleep at the wheel.

He just.

He just overly exhausted himself.

And, you know, it's.

That's, you know, it's an extension of the drive, you know.

Chance Howard is brilliant.

He's one of the best musicians I've Ever known.

He's a great singer.

I mean, for Prince to just turn him loose on a musicology tour, Just go ahead and.

Yeah, go ahead, big papa.

Go ahead.

Let him have it.

You know, that's saying a lot because, you know, Prince could be generous, but he could also be very greedy about the spotlight.

Right, right.

You had to be bad for Prince to turn loose that light for you to get a little.

I mean, with Rosie, that was the first time anybody saw him really do it like she got.

And I'm not saying anything negative about Bonnie Boyer.

I thought she was tremendous, but Prince never let her just go straight off.

Like, Rosie just mad.

Our first gig, which was in, I think maybe Rotterdam or it might have been at the Ahoy, I can't remember, but it was like, in Holland.

And, I mean, we stepped out on stage, people already had signs like, we love Rosie.

Oh, wow.

Like, they just.

I mean.

I mean, I guess just from New Power Generation, I think, had been released as a single.

Okay.

And she was singing on that.

And so I think they.

I think her credit was vocal icing.

Yeah.

And so they already knew about Rosie.

We got there and they were going crazy for Rosie, you know.

So how's she doing?

Have you kept in contact?

I have not spoken to her in many years, but I have been in contact with her daughter a bit.

And, you know, I haven't heard any bad news as of late, so I presume she's relatively stable and just trying to do her thing.

Right, right.

So many people miss her.

I mean.

Yeah, you know, it's.

It's.

Yeah, I miss her a lot.

She was.

She was like, really one of the people I hung out with the most.

Like, back in the day, like, we just, you know, like, me, her and Sunny, we spent a lot of time together.