We explore practical strategies for managing frustration at work, plus triggers and benefits to try and keep this emotion in check. Learn actionable techniques for identifying sources of frustration and cultivating resilience through mindfulness and assertive communication. Whether a seasoned professional or new to the workforce, gain valuable insights for creating a fulfilling and productive work environment. Tune in to learn how to navigate workplace frustration with professionalism, grace, and renewed purpose.

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Each week we will cover topics specific to careers in the SEO industry but also broader topics too including professional and personal development.

Your hosts are Life Coach Tazmin Suleman and SEO Manager Sarah McDowell, who between them have over 20 years of experience working in the industry.

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Hello, everyone, and we are back for another season. We are packed with season nine after a short break and thank you for joining us again. Thank you for choosing to listen to an episode of the SEO Mindset where your hosts are, myself, Sarah McDowell, and my fabulous co host, the ever so wonderful Tazmin Suleman. This week we are talking all about dealing with frustration at work. I can't wait to get stuck into this episode because we're going to be discussing how it's common, what makes us frustrated, how we can deal with strategies. Deal with strategies. Sorry. We'll also cover strategies to deal with our frustration. And we'll also cover why it's important. So a banging episode. And I can't wait to get into it with you before I get Tazmin to join me, just a reminder about the ways that you can support me and Tazmin. So if you're thinking, you know what, I like what Sarah and Tazmin are doing, I want to support them. There are plenty of ways that you can do that. For example, you can give us a one off donation. So if you follow the link in our show notes, you will be taken to our buy me a coffee page and you can buy us a coffee. You can give us a one off donation. You can decide how many you want to give us as well. And we'd be very appreciative of that. And also, you can subscribe to our podcast. So again, get to those show notes, follow the link, and if you subscribe and follow the SEO mindset podcast, you will get notified every time a new episode is live. Okay, let's get Tazmin on to the episode. Hello, Tazmin.

Hi, Sarah. How are you?

I'm wonderful, thank you. How about yourself?

Really well. Really. I'm so looking forward to this episode. I'm so really glad that we're back again. It didn't feel that long, but it's nice to be back.

Well, the question is, do you feel recharged, refreshed, ready to crack on with a jam packed season?

I do feel charged and refreshed. And I think also because we're coming up to Brighton SEO, it feels really exciting. Lots of things happening. So, yeah, exciting times.

Exciting times.

Yeah.

We've got an exciting couple of months ahead, and I think seeing as we have just finished a short break and this is our first episode back, we need to give people the reminder. Reminder, yeah. Reminder of our live podcast that we're doing in a couple of weeks time. How many weeks is it?

Three.

Three. Four weeks.

Yeah, three weeks. Three weeks tomorrow.

Yeah. So on Wednesday the 24 April, the night before Brighton SEO, me and Tazmin, and we've got a guest for you as well. We're going to be doing a live podcast all about why it's important to be yourself, authentically, you. And it's going to be such a lovely evening. So we'll be recording a podcast in front of an audience. We'll have a q. We've got pizza, we've got drinks, we've got a musician. We've got it all, haven't we, Tazmin?

We have. And I think what's really great is that it started off as a whim. Let's do this thing. And now it's becoming bigger and it's becoming more elaborate and I feel like it's. It's a beginning of a tradition. It'll be. What should we do the night before Brighton SEO? Well, there is no question. You just go to the live podcast and you know those stories with brightness here. When they say, oh, it started in a pub, or is that the story? It started in a pub. Three people in a pub or whatever, this will be the beginning of history.

It definitely will. It definitely will. So, yeah, again, if this sounds up your shoot. So if you're going to Brighton, SEO, or if you happen to live in Brighton, I mean, I'm very jealous. I'd love to live in Brighton myself. But if you're around on that Wednesday the 24th, come and join us free. You don't have to. It doesn't cost you a penny. So come and join us. Right, Tazmin, let's delve into this week's topic. Let's discuss frustration.

Right?

It's common. Yeah, it's very common to feel frustrated because things don't go quite to plant. We have to work with other people and it's part and parcel. So I suppose I just want to start with saying, don't feel alone. If you feel that, am I the only one that feels frustrated? And give yourself a hard time. It's very common, isn't it, Tazmin? How many times have you felt frustrated in the last.

Wow.

I'm just thinking it's only the beginning of the week. So in the last couple of days, how many times have you felt frustrated?

About ten minutes before we started recording, because I was trying to do something on a particular new piece of software and thinking, why can I not figure this out? So I felt frustrated about that. I felt frustrated about a boo boo that I made because I didn't attach something to an email that I was supposed to attach so, yeah, quite a few times today.

Yeah. And it's common, isn't it? And I think what are some examples of how frustration can work? So a very fit and wrong for our audience. Google. Google might be causing you frustration, right? How many times does a new core algorithm update frustrate you or something happen? I don't know, your rankings traffic drop. That might frustrate you. If you are working in an agency and you've got clients, maybe there's times where they frustrate you. If you're in house, maybe you're frustrated by the people that you're working with. Or maybe you are frustrated by management, your boss, people above you. Any other examples that you can think of, Tazmin?

So I'm going to throw a slightly curved ball here. Sometimes frustration can be seen as a good thing because if you're doing something new and you're learning something new, you're going to be frustrated. So maybe sometimes that's a sign of the fact that you are developing.

Yes, definitely. So if you are pushing yourself and you're trying something for the first time, that's gonna end with frustration. And I think it depends on what you're like as a person. So I am very impatient. I am very, very impatient. I do not give myself the time and space to learn something new and I just wanna speed it up and I forget that. Do you know what? This is new to me. This is the first time I'm implementing something. Of course I'm not going to get it straight off and it's going to take me a long time, but because I am so impatient, that ends up just frustrating the hell out of me.

Yeah, I think similar to you, but not because of impatience, because I try and cram too much in a day. So I create time pressure instead of thinking, I've never done this before. If I think it's going to take me an hour, double it, it'll take two, because I'll have a learning curve to go through.

Yeah, I do that all the time and I think a lot of our listeners will do that all the time. So when you're planning. So what I tend to do is when I start my day of work, I will put together a to do list of all the stuff that I want to get done. And you always end up putting too much on there, don't you? You always think that you can do more and then at the end of the day, you've kind of set yourself up for a failure because you look back and you're like, oh, I wanted to do this, I wanted to do that. So that's another way that we can end up feeling, feeling frustrated. Something has just come to mind. Have you ever played the game frustration?

No, I have not.

It's as we've been talking as the more times I heard the word frustration, you know, when it just like you access a part of your brain and you're like, I remember playing this game. So it was a, basically, it's a board game. You've only died and you've got four counters that you have to get home, but you're obviously racing against other people. You could get so far and someone could land on you and you start back from the start. So you can kind of tell why it's called frustration because, yeah, you've got to get all your counters home and you have to beat the other person that you're playing with. So maybe, maybe Alice is find that game if you want to, if it feels intriguing and you want to play that yourself. So, yeah, okay. So we've kind discussed frustration and how common it is and we've also covered situations and how we end up feeling frustrated, part two. So after our break, I'm going to be sharing strategies to deal with frustration and why it's important. And I just want to check with you, Tazmin, before we do that, is there anything else that you want to say or cover before we do that?

I do, actually. Sometimes frustration can come from you're doing a role that maybe you're not okay with. Let me give you an example. Explain it better. When I was at Argos, I used to be part of great place to work, colleague development lead. And I was really excited about it because I was really passionate about it. And I built this course. And I said to like the person in digital who was overseeing this, I said, you know what, I talked to a lot of people and they're struggling with this, this and this, and I've created this course to address it. And he said, he said, that's not your job. Your job is to tell everyone in digital where to find the HR resources. Your job is not to create another resource yourself. And I said, yes, but they don't have these things on the HR resources. I want to do it. And he said, no, no, it's not your job. And he was right. It wasn't my job. But it was a frustration because that's what I was really passionate about. So it can be telling. It can be telling. And again, in the same role, I was saying that to this guy Jay, his name was that the HR resources, they're not all in one place, so it'd be great to have a page where I can signpost it all. And he said, no, no, not your job. Again, don't do it, don't do it. And I said, I'm gonna do it anyway. So I did. And then we went into lockdown. And then one of my new jobs during lockdown was to. Guess what, Sarah? Guess what it was. It was to help HR build a page to signpost all of the resources to make it easier for everyone. So good job. I didn't listen because I could. I could just say, tada. Already done it. Here you go. Thank you very much.

Oh, that's awesome. Because I think that goes to show how proactive your thinking was there. So you saw a gap, or you saw something that needed fixing and you did it, didn't you? And it actually helped you in the long run. But it also brings up a good point that there's so many. So something that I always fall into the trap of doing is creating more work for myself. So something that I'm trying to get better at is if I am given a task or if there's a project, rather than making it ever so complicated for myself and thinking all the bells and whistles, obviously I still want a good job. I still want to do a good job. Sorry. And that should always be the plan. But there's always ways that you can make your life much easier, do you know what I mean? Because there's so many times where you end up doing something and it's redundant or you don't really need it. So that's a good lesson there as well, isn't there? Is there a quicker route? Can you achieve the same outcome but making your life much easier?

And I think the live podcast is a good example of that, because we wanted to do it. Now, if we had said we're going to do it, and then we're going to have musician and pizza and this and that, it may have become too big a task for us actually to achieve it. So the first time we did it was really simple and we were winging it, and then we got better the next time.

Don't know what you're talking about, Tazmin.

No, no, of course not. Of course not. It was slick. Slick and smooth. But we then gradually improved on it and built on it. So, yeah, I think that worked to our advantage.

And it's much better getting something out there and done, rather than always striving for perfection. Because if you strive for perfection, you'll never get something out there. You'll never do something, something because nothing's going to be quite perfect enough. Whereas if you can get stuff out there done, it doesn't have to be polished. It doesn't have to be fine tune, learn and work on it for next time. Because there's always, even if you do strive for perfection and even if someone does get something out there that has hit that mark, there's always ways to improve next time anyway, isn't there? So, yeah, give yourself a break.

And perfectionism is a, is a root cause of procrastination sometimes. And we've got an episode coming up soon on procrastination.

Oh, yes. There you go. You've heard it. You've heard it here first. Lovely. Right, I reckon we'll take a short break now. Tazmin. We'll let our listeners, you know, sit with, reflect, think of all the stuff that we've shared and talked about. And then part two is going to be crammed full of easy to implement strategies to deal with frustration and why. It's important. So it's very important that you join us after this short break. Tazmin, we are back.

Wonderful, wonderful. I'm looking forward to hearing these strategies.

Yes. I'm looking forward to sharing them with you. And as ever, Tazmin, as I am going through my list and I'm reeling off all my strategies of how to. How to cope, please do let me know because I'd love to. You always have wonderful golden nuggets, as I call them. You always have lovely stuff to add. So, Tazmin, would you like to know my strategy? Shall I? Please do.

Please do.

Hell, yes. Sarah, stop teasing. Just get on with it. Okay? Tip number one or strategy number one, take a breath.

Yeah.

So as soon as you are feeling these, these feelings, these emotions, and you can feel it erupting, and it's gonna go off like a volcano. Lovely bit of imagery there for you all.

Take a breather, yeah.

Take a step back. Have a break. You could do some breathing exercises. There's loads out there that you can do that calms you down. So one of my favorite ones is where you take a breath. You breathe in for 4 seconds. You hold that breath for 2 seconds and then you breathe out for 8 seconds. So it doesn't really matter how long you breathe in for and how long you breathe out for. It's just important that the breath out is longer than the breath in because that's what's going to help calm you down.

Yeah.

So there's strategy number one, once you've had a breath and go and make yourself a cuppa, go and stand outside in nature. Do whatever you need to do to take yourself away from that situation, to give yourself a break. Strategy number two, this is going to be hard, but try and see it from their point of view.

Yeah.

So whoever you've got frustrated at, if it's a person or what have you, or a situation or whatever it is, whatever's got you frustrated, try and see it from a different angle. Try and see it from a different point of view. Because I think sometimes we get caught up with how we perceive stuff, how we think and feel. Do you know what I mean? But just remember, not everyone thinks like you. We all have different ideas, different points of view. We all have different ways of looking at stuff. Another great thing to do is journal. Yeah, I know Tazmin loves a bit of journaling, but get those thoughts out of your head as well. Whatever is in there, those toxic feelings, those toxic thoughts, whatever is in there that you just need to get out, get it out, get it out on paper. And you might surprise yourself as well because it's much better getting it out in a calm and collective way than letting it manifest and erupting into something bigger. And while you're journaling, it will give you a really good chance to reflect what happened. What happened in this moment of frustration? Was there communication issues? I hands down nine times out of ten issues go wrong. Arguments happen. Frustrations happen. When there's been a breakdown of communication.

Yeah.

That's always, that's always a thing to look out for. We all need to get better at communication because remember, we're not mind readers. Is there a, do you need to adjust your expectations?

Yeah.

Can you think about your expectations? What you were thinking back from that situation? Were you, was your expectations too high? Were they unrealistic? Also, you can only control what you can control. You can't control everything. So for example, in the SEO industry, we can't control Google, we can't control what updates, core of updates, algorithms, we can't control that. We can't control. If you are agency side and you need your client to implement something and they do something not quite right or quite to your expectations, you can't control that. You can't control a big issue happening where your website comes down.

Yeah.

So think of the stuff that you can and cannot control because that will help with your expectations. Tazmin, is there anything else that we should be reflecting about, anything that comes to mind?

There are a few thoughts that have popped into my mind. The sooner that you understand this truth of life, the better. People will not be your way. They just won't. So if you're waiting for everyone to be like you and everyone to think like you, you will never be happy. You will always be frustrated. People are different, and I always think of chips. When I think of this example, people like chips in different ways. Some like them just salted, salted. Some vinegar with ketchup with mayo. Some like them loaded, some like them with perisalt. Just think of chips. So many different combinations of how people like to eat their french fries. Why would life be any less complicated than chips? Tell me. Okay.

I love that. I love that. How do you have your chips?

It all depends on what I'm eating. So with a nando, and it's peri mayo, but with my burgers, just want salt. Salt with fish and chips. Salt and vinegar. So, look, even I'm a complicated chip person, and this is just me, so there are too many combinations of people out there. They're not going to be your way, and you're not their way. You know what? You're probably frustrating the hell out of them. That's one thought I had. The other thought is almost like the opposite of that. They might not even know that they're frustrating you. They may have no clue what. So those are the two thoughts that were coming to my head.

There you go. Thank you. And I apologize to all of our listeners that have all of a sudden got an inkling to eat chips.

I'm fasting, and I'm okay. So everyone just, let's all have chips tonight. That's what I'm gonna have. Even though chips doesn't even go with the menu I've got planned that I'm having some.

You're gonna do it. Gonna do it. Anyway, I love a chunky chip with salt and vinegar. I love that. And a little bit of garlic mayo. But anyway, let's move on. Yeah. So, reflection, reflect. Take that time. Think of someone that you can vent to. So, obviously, you don't want to vent to the person that has made you feel frustrated, because that's not gonna help anyone at all. Is there someone that you can vent to? Is there a partner? Is there a good friend? If you can? I have therapy, and it's doing me a world of good, but I'm very. I have to check in with myself here because I know that having therapy and having counseling isn't always accessible to everyone. So, yeah, I mean, if you ever are in the situation where you can afford, or maybe someone's give given free or what have you have counselling, if you can. But as a caveat, I do. I am aware that, yeah, it's not as accessible to everyone. But anyway, who can you vent to? And also make sure that when you are venting to that person, give them a heads up.

Yeah.

And make sure that they have time. So, for example, with me and my partner Tash, I always, so obviously, I'm ready to vent and I need someone to vent. But remember that they might not be in a space to accept that venting. Like, maybe they've got other things they're dealing with. Maybe they're working on a deadline. So always check in and be like, can I vent? If they can in that time, great. If not, just schedule it in with them. So there's times where Tash will be like, do you know what, babe? I really want to help you, but I've got to teach in the next five minutes. And I'm like, fine, can, can I vent to you after dinner? So you can always book it in? But, yeah, because you don't want that to end up being another frustration when you try and vent to that person and they're not available. Be kind to yourself.

Yeah.

So it's very common to feel frustrated. Don't beat yourself up. Do something that makes you happy. Get those endorphins running. Whenever I say endorphins, I always picture dolphins. I I don't know why. I don't know what other people do. I just picture a load of happy dolphins swimming around my body. That's a weird visual for you all. But what can you do to make you feel happy? Change that feeling as quick as you can. Maybe that is exercise. Exercise is a great one.

Yeah.

Can you watch something funny? Can you go and talk to your best mate? Can you eat something nutritious? Can you make something, whatever you can do to make those feelings feel good.

Yeah.

Change it around. Think of possible solutions to avoid that situation again. So after you have journaled, after you've reflected, have a little think. Pinpoint those. So you've had a think. And obviously you can be like, okay, this is why that happened. This is why that happened. And you can list them all out. Then what you can think of is potential solutions of how to avoid that happening again in the future. And then the last bit, my last bit of practical advice, my last strategy for you is schedule a chat with that person. So either face to face or virtual face to face is always better if you can. But I know that we live in a world that's more digital. We're all remote working and all of that. But schedule a chat.

Yeah.

And make sure it's a time when you can both do and those you've had that time to reflect and do all of these other steps. But if you are in the wrong, make sure that you apologize and take accountability.

Yeah.

If you're not in the wrong, if you believe the other person was in the wrong, explain. Have a conversation.

Yeah.

Check out the episode and I'll pop it in the show notes with Loretta Milan because she came onto the podcast and did a crack in episode all about difficult conversations. So I'll make sure that that is linked to in the show notes because I very much urge you to listen to that because that will help with that situation. So, Tazmin, I'm at the end of my list, please. Thoughts?

I have a few to add. Use power of perspective. At the end of the day, what is the problem here? You know, at Argos, at the end of the day, we were selling stuff. When I was working at frontline, we were distributing magazines. This isn't life or death stuff. So put the whole thing into perspective. Another thing is, is this frustrating situation giving you a clue of how you need to get better, whatever it is that you're not very good at at that moment? Is this a vehicle for your growth, to be more patient, communicate better? Like you said, see things from the other side? So that's another thought I had. And add on to your venting strategy. So when you go to talk to someone, if all you're doing is venting, then sometimes what that does is it reconfirms your position in that scenario, but doesn't help you findings find a solution. So something that me and my daughter have will say, I just need to vent a bit. I just need you to be supportive. Or the other thing I'll say is, or she'll say is, I've got this situation. I need you to help me find a solution. And what that does is helps you get better at that situation or helps you resolve that frustration rather than just reconfirming that you're right and then they're wrong. And then the third thing, the last thing, not the third thing, the last thing I've got is we've been using this method a bit more. I'm going to make it up. I've made it up myself. And maybe, maybe I will write a book about this. So pretend you're a movie star, right? And this is a scene in your movie. It's a Netflix premiere of Tazmin the movie. And she has a situation where she is frustrated with this piece of software which won't allow her to attach this document. Now, if you're watching this and you think, oh, what's going to happen next? And you see me moan and moan and moan, you're going to think, I'm not watching this. This is so boring. I'm going to flick over. Or if Tazmin decides to take a step back, does a few deep breaths, sticks her head outside, makes a cup of tea and says, you know what? I'm going to find the solution to this. And she does. And she attaches that document and the email goes out and everyone's happy. You think, oh, she's inspired me. I love this movie. Okay. I am fully aware, everyone, that that would not be, oh, she's empowered me moment. I use it as an example. But if somebody was watching your life, because it is. It is your life. It is a scene in your life. How do you want that scene to end? Just you moaning or, you know, or do you want to find a solution? So use the movie star technique. You heard it here first.

Who. I love that technique. I am so going to use that next time. But really pressing question here, Tazmin, who is playing you?

I'm playing me, of course, because I'm a movie star. I'm gonna, I'm gonna create a LinkedIn post. You know, where you put your. What's that thing in Hollywood, the boulevard where you've got a star. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hollywood Boulevard. Oh, fun. There you go. Another great strategy. Maybe you need to copyright that, the movie star strategy and then definitely write a book. I would, I would buy it. Loads of people would buy it. Sell off the shelf. Wonderful. Well, hopefully, as well as me and Tazmin have been sharing our strategies, obviously implement. Take them on for yourself.

Yeah.

But have a think what strategies are coming to mind for you. Maybe you're like, oh, I love that idea. However, I'm going to build on it, this is what I'm going to add. So there's always room to add your own strategies, your own methods, whatever works for you. But hopefully our strategies have definitely helped you start thinking that or give you stuff to implement straight away. Right. Time is a ticking. You know, I love our sessions, Tazmin. I love our episodes. But, you know, we've got it. We gotta crack on. So last, last thing is, why is this important?

Yeah.

So I want to leave you and empower you to implement these strategies. Because, yes, whilst feeling frustrated and getting frustrated and acting on our frustrations is common, we need to find a way of being better. We need to find a way of checking in with ourselves. And why? Because ultimately, it's better for your own mental health.

Yeah.

Your own well being. If you can deal with feeling frustrated and you've got these strategies in place to help you diffuse that situation, it's only gonna bode well for you in the future. Future, Sarah, future, Tazmin, future. You are gonna say, thank you for that. It will help you have better relationships.

Yeah.

And we should all be striving at better relationships. But, yes, we need to be working on our own personal relationships, whether that's with our partner, loved one, wife, husband, other partner, whatever that is. You don't have to be married either, you know, just as a caveat, or maybe it's your relationship with friends, family, sisters, brothers, parents, whatever it is. But just as important, just think how much time you spend in the workplace, right? If you can work on having great relationships at work, with your colleagues, with people that you are working with, day in, day out, again, that's only going to be better for everyone. You will be creating this lovely environment to work in. You'll steer clear of creating a toxic environment. Because, again, we don't want toxicity.

Yeah.

We want a non toxic environment because that's where everyone flourishes. Think of that. A plant.

Yeah.

If you give it the right stuff, it needs the nutrition, the water, the sunlight, it flourishes. It's the same as us.

Yeah.

I'm going heavy on the imagery today. Personal growth, career development. It's good for us.

Yeah.

It makes us more hireable. Maybe when you are looking to grow and develop, you want a promotion. If you can prove and show that, you know, I deal with my frustration, this is what I do. That's going to be really hireable. That is the word I'm going for. That's the only word that I can think of right now. But you know what I'm on about. It builds your resilience. If you know how to deal with frustration, because it's part and parcel of life, it helps with that resilience. And the more resilience that we have for ourselves, the better that that's going to be. And it also helps with productivity, how much we get. Not just how much we get done, but the quality. That's more important anyway. We shouldn't be striving for how much work we're pumping out. My point here is the quality of the work that we're doing. Anything else that you'd want to add in here?

Tazmin? What we've been talking about, in essence, is managing your own emotions, frustration being an emotion, and that will just help you with your stress levels. And, you know, we're all about managing our stress, keeping, keeping ourselves as much as possible, you know, in a good mental health state, reducing the risk of burnout, because that's. That's what then really damages our lives.

A hundred percent, 100%. Wonderful. Well, I'm sorry to say, but that does bring us nearly to the end. Nearly to the end. Because Tazmin, what is the main takeaway from today's episode? What's the main thing that you're going to take away?

Personally, I think at the top level, when we're in that state of, I am frustrated. It feels so big. That emotion feels big. But when you chunk it down into, oh, I have this feeling, I have this emotion. And I know ten strategies that will help. It takes that. It reduces that emotion and makes it a more rational, logical process to deal with that, which is so true.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Well, that is it. That is today's episode. So I hope. And it's the first one back from a short break. So I thought, I hope you enjoyed it. Me and Tazmin have.

Right.

You've enjoyed this session?

Absolutely. And it's been really great. And it's not just in work life. Right. It's also, like you said, in your personal life. So these skills, these techniques will help in all parts. So that's been really for me. That's real biggie.

Yeah, 100%. Because it's all. Everything encompassing, isn't it, at the end of the day, and I think we already teased. So you said about another episode that's coming up in this season, we're going to be talking about procrastination.

Procrastination. What it is and what it isn't.

Ah, nice. So, yeah, keep your eyes peeled for that. And we've also got a load of cracking guests lined up. How you doing? You lined up yours for season nine yet?

So I've. I've got three particular ones that I want and I have sent out the request. I'm waiting. Waiting on their responses. So I can't. Just. Just keep your eyes peeled. There's some really great ones coming up. What about you?

Nice. Me too. Me too. Yeah, I'm getting there. So a couple are in the bag. But before announcing maybe the next time we're recording, I'll have more to share of topics and who I've got in, but, yeah, working on it. Working on it. But very excited for the topics and people that I'm going to invite. It's always a good one. And, yeah, before we end, before we finish today's episode, just a reminder of those ways that you can support us. So if you want to give us a one off donation so me and Tazmin can treat ourselves to a coffee and maybe a cake when we're in Brighton in a couple of weeks time. Or chips. A code of chips, maybe that was more fitting to say. You can do that by following the links in our show notes to our buy me a coffee page. And also a reminder, again, to subscribe. So if you've not yet subscribed, what are you doing? You're missing out on notifications of new episodes. So, yeah, give us a subscription. And if a subscription, give us a follow, is what I meant. And if you're feeling ever so generous, give us a five star review. We love that. You know, it'll help with the algorithms, your SEOs. You know what I'm talking about, right? Shall we say goodbye? Until next time, Tazmin.

Goodbye until next time, everyone. Thank you so much.

Take care.