My guest this week is the mastermind behind the brand Boss Uncaged. The one and only S.A. Grant. We’re talking about his lifelong passion for learning and his unconventional approach to building businesses. You’ll hear how he got his start as a marketer, the life-changing event that inspired Boss Uncaged, and what he recommends to kids in school now. 

S. A. Grant is a recovering workaholic. He’s the Host of Boss Uncaged Podcast, CEO of Serebral360 - A Design & marketing agency - and Brand & Growth Strategist Consultant at SA Grant.com. 

S. A. has 21 years of experience helping aspiring business owners create strategies and tactics that consistently generate more revenue, and build their online business presence. He’s published eight #1 Best Selling books and he speaks at Podfest Global, Podfest Master Class, and VidFest. 

He describes himself as a  loving family man, rock-climber, and novice sailor. 

Today's episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. The question many people are asking lately is how do I find and maintain peace of mind?

With everything going on in your world, and the world as a whole, staying grounded can be challenging. 

Yet, your happiness and well-being are dependent on your ability to find your center. To tap into your inner knowing. Your health and sanity are at stake here. 

This is where the F*ck Being Fine program for individuals and companies comes in. It’s time to stop saying everything’s fine when, clearly, your hair is on fire. You want to learn how to stay calm and grounded no matter what’s going on around you? 

There are people who live this way and you can be one of them. If you’re intrigued by this possibility, message me at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or text me at 571.317.1463.

S.A.'s Hype song: Turn Down for What, DJ Snake, Lil Jon

Website: podcast.bossuncaged.com 

LinkedIn: https://bossuncaged.com/linkedin 

Facebook: http://bossuncaged.com/facebook 

Instagram: http://bossuncaged.com/instagram

Clubhouse: @bossuncaged 

Twitter: http://bossuncaged.com/twitter

S.A. Grant

[00:00:02] Lori Saitz: Hello, and welcome Fine is a 4-Letter Word. My guest today is the famous infamous. I'm not quite sure. S.A. Grant welcome.

[00:00:18] Lori Saitz: Yeah, me too. So let's just jump right into it and tell me what were the beliefs and values that you were raised were raised with?

And that's essentially like the best way to kind of live, but I've definitely seen hurdles come and go. Even with that philosophy as well.

[00:01:07] S.A. Grant: I think from the business standpoint, cause like my mom, she was always been a worker bee. So kind of seeing her work herself and where, I mean, even till this day, she still is a worker bee and had that worker bee mentality. So not to knock her as a worker bee, but I knew from seeing that, that I definitely wanted more.

Um, my dad, on the other hand, he had kind of the entrepreneurial hustle to a certain extent, but he'd never really figured out the formula and how to put things together to make it work potentially.

[00:01:47] S.A. Grant: So, um, as my. The best way to tell it. It's like I have two different degrees. I have a graphic design degree and I have a web design degree. Right. So, and while I was getting my graphic design degree, I had a bunch of friends that were graphic designers. I loved it. But then after I got the degree, I was like, there's gotta be more.

I gotta go for something else. So half of my friends stayed in design and then I transitioned into web design and multimedia. And then after, when I graduated, it was around the time of September 11th. So there was no jobs. And I was like, I was always good with technology, but again, I was a graphic designer and a web designer.

So my school that I went to, they had a position for a tech. So I came in as a level one tech, and that's how, like I really got infused into video and audio and all these different. Shortly Miami, about 18 months after that, I got tired of babysit and everyone else. That was my age. Cause again, I was, I was just a student the year before, like literally three months before and now I'm an employee of, of the school and I'm dealing with kids that are my age.

So from there that I definitely worked at several different companies. Right. I worked at agencies, uh, work that branding firms. Um, and that does kind of w where I started and then it evolved from there.

[00:03:03] S.A. Grant: Yeah. But that, that was in my adolescence. So that's how I started off in Brooklyn.

Um, it was just kind of one of the things that in middle school, one of my friends, he was a graffiti artist and he kind of put me on to it. So then, you know, kind of just started getting black books and getting markers and getting the, you know, back then we used to get the mailing label stickers from the post office because they were free draw graffiti on it and then stick it on the trains using sandpaper, etching them in glass.

I was more of a tagger than per se.

[00:03:34] S.A. Grant: Yeah. So a bomber is someone that essentially is going to go out with a bunch of cans of paint late at night, and they're going to then get a piece done back then we would call them a fill ins where you would do an outline. You'll fill it in and.

Do some other colors and mix and match and you have like done piece, right? So sometimes it may take a night. It may take multiple nights. A tagger is more. So it's all about getting up as about how often it's, it's funny because I'm a marketer by trade and didn't realize it until later on. It's all about how many places can I get my tag?

How many places can I put Boston cage or essay grant? What can I stick at working out? So that way, the next day you get on the train, you get on the same train. You may see your tag again, or you may be in Manhattan versus Brooklyn, and you'd be like, oh, there goes.

[00:04:33] S.A. Grant: pretty much. I was just, you know, I was just getting up. That's just what we call it as credit cards. It was getting up. I just wanting to get up and get up as many places the possibly could.

[00:04:47] S.A. Grant: many,

[00:04:51] S.A. Grant: your, um, businesses

[00:04:59] S.A. Grant: I

[00:05:02] S.A. Grant: that. Like

[00:05:03] S.A. Grant: inspired you

[00:05:08] S.A. Grant: then you decided. So while I was working for the people, uh, got married, went through a custody divorce, and I got primary full custody of my son.

So that was like my first initial push to kind of start my company. And then on the journey, I was realizing that I was both creative and analytical and it took me a while to kind of come to terms with that. Hence why I went from graphic design to web design. And then on my journey of business, I became a travel agent.

I became a. Insurance agent. And I got my series six license, so I dumped into some multiple different disciplines and fastest cause in my mind I was okay while I'm working for these different corporations. And that's what

I did as well. I would literally go in for a part-time job for Comcast and work there for 60 days, get their systems that I needed to learn.

And then. Go somewhere else. Then I went to apple, worked at apple for like six months, got their systems understanding. And I went to another company while I was still working my full-time employment. So I was double dipping and triple dipping building where I am right now.

[00:06:07] S.A. Grant: to

[00:06:08] S.A. Grant: and then move on.

Yeah, because even back then, when I was in college, I was like looking at it like these bills. Right. I was like, okay. Do I want to put another 50,000 to get an MBA or do I want to get paid to play? So if I wanted to learn prime example like scaling, right, Comcast is a great company for scaling. So I went into their, um, their division to where.

Phone calls. I went to the call centers and then that's when I figured out, well, they have like five tier system. Like the call center is one upsell the down, sell the cross sell. Oh, you're pissed off customer service, customer service Sims and back to the other division. So that's when I first was realizing like, okay, like, this is How a corporation really runs.

This is a real system. So I was getting an MBA without paying for it.

[00:06:53] S.A. Grant: How

[00:06:58] S.A. Grant: about your

[00:07:06] S.A. Grant: to learn, and this is how I'm going to do it.

When is weird, because when I was younger, it was kind of like I had friends, but I didn't really fit in. And as I got older and I, and I was becoming like college bound, I was in college. I had a core group of friends, but I was still kind of like the odd ball out. And then I realized, well, like I could be.

The multiple different groups of overlapping circles. And that's what I was. Okay. That's that's, that's my gift is that I understand multiple different principles and I could have multiple different friend groups, multiple different associations, and that everyone needs to understand me, except for when I'm talking about that particular topic.

So when I'm talking about graphic design, I want my graphic design friends. When I'm talking about business strategy and marketing I'm with my business strategy marketing friends. So I've kind of diversified my friend groups and have some overlap between.

[00:07:56] S.A. Grant: Not a lot of

[00:07:59] S.A. Grant: know a lot of people who, excuse me,

[00:08:02] S.A. Grant: hang on

[00:08:05] S.A. Grant: I don't know.

[00:08:09] S.A. Grant: a lot of people who have.

[00:08:14] S.A. Grant: I'm going to go work for Comcast for 60

[00:08:20] S.A. Grant: So I'm going to go work

[00:08:21] S.A. Grant: company. Like that's

[00:08:23] S.A. Grant: so

[00:08:27] S.A. Grant: right word, but it's just

[00:08:29] S.A. Grant: it's so interesting.

I think it was, it was trial by fire, right? I didn't want to spend more money with education in that way. I like, I have no problem spending money for like courses and seminars and summits, but I didn't want to spend that premium of 60 grand to sit in an environment and potentially learn something that was already outdated.

I wanted it to kind of go into the field and get real-world experience and, you know, obviously. The bosses in that environment, they didn't know what I was doing. They would, they would give me my reviews and then I would just sit there and be like, yeah. Okay, thanks. Appreciate that. And then, you know, I put in my resignation in 60 days and we wonder whether the next thing.

So

[00:09:10] S.A. Grant: you were doing it, not very many people

[00:09:18] S.A. Grant: No, I, again, for me, it was more so I had, I wanted to kind of build an enterprise and I was okay, how do, and my original company was called cerebral graphics, then morphed to cerebral media.

And then today I still own it. It's called cerebral 360. So as I was going through these transformations, I was like, okay, we're not a graphic design company more. Okay. We're not a media company. No more. So 360 is the only thing I can kind of come up with the kind of encompasses and, you know, got the trademark and all that.

So I was like, I'm going to build this massive corporation. And that's what I started working on developing. And that's why I became a travel agent. And that's why I jumped into all these other spaces. Cause I was like, I'm missing these nuances. I'm missing these little elements, these little tips to get to the next level.

[00:10:02] S.A. Grant: Insurance

[00:10:12] S.A. Grant: into. So with the financial side out, once I realized finance was like the end all be all to everything in our world, right. As far as the numbers go, I was like, obviously I went to an art school, so they taught me how to press buttons.

They taught me how to execute. They taught me how to be creative, which is all great things, but they didn't teach me how to do any final. So I was okay in order for me to be a good business owner. Like when you sit at the table and you're offering a deal where you want to close something, you have to know what your value is, but at the same time, you have to know how to present that value, to get the money that you want.

And then you can be creative and be happy. And in design everything, that's a separation that we have between those two environments. I was like, I'm going to go head over heels into that environment. And I had an opportunity to become a I'm an insurance agent. And once I realized like that business was essentially more of a marketing.

And you can build teams. So I was, you know, at one point in time, I had about 200 agents on the east coast, under the, my branch and I was diving deep into it and they was traveling for events. Hence the travel agent. I was like, well, okay, all these people are traveling. We're going to events. I have the marketing, I know how to communicate with them, but let me help them out with like understanding how to travel, how to save money.

And as we're going to have 50 people traveling from different states, you only make sense that I'll be the travel agent and funnel those revenues in that way.

[00:11:31] S.A. Grant: Of course it

[00:11:33] S.A. Grant: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[00:11:36] S.A. Grant: else, what else did you get into? Oh man, I just, I'm just trying to think. I mean, I've done a lot of different things, but I think collectively, probably the most interest.

Out of all of them was probably the insurance branch because I dove so deep into it for two years. And to the point to where I got a series six, it was kind of like, what the hell is a graphic designer have to do with a series six and a series six. Those that don't know, it's kind of like, it's not a series seven, but it allows you to kind of, you know, do investments to a certain extent I can go in and do 5 29 or 401k.

And I could, I could help people establish those accounts, which has nothing to do with graphic design whatsoever. But it gave me the principles that I needed to understand money and understand how to manipulate the market. And like prime example, NF teasers are new thing, but NFTs are essentially based upon blockchain and blockchain essentially is crypto in that crypto is then based upon the economy.

So it's, it all rolls into each other.

[00:12:31] S.A. Grant: where you're going now

[00:12:34] S.A. Grant: went the

[00:12:36] S.A. Grant: and, um, blockchain,

[00:12:42] S.A. Grant: okay. So,

[00:12:46] S.A. Grant: word. At

[00:12:52] S.A. Grant: it really wasn't telling me that it sure as hell was not. So from 2000, until 2018, I was on that. Okay. I'm going to work my full-time job. I'm going to raise my kid. I'm going to be like the baseball, the basketball dad. I'm going to be part of his, his, everything that he was doing. I was doing, I was coaching.

But mentally I'm like really aware and really strong. So I was, I was going to push through everything and then unfortunately, 2018 happened in October. And I had a stroke woke up in the hospital and I'm looking around and I saw my son. So my girlfriend at the time, he was my wife now and both of my parents.

And I was like, this is interesting. Well, whatever happened, at least I made it through that. And then they told me what happened. And then it was just kind of like seeing how bad it was. I didn't realize how bad it was until they brought food for me. And I was trying to eat. And my right hand was like, food was flying everywhere.

Um, they took a picture of me and my entire right side of my face was drooping. And I had to pretty much learn how to. Within that timeframe. So my goal for that week was okay, you know, what all that shit happens. So what, what am I going to do now? And that's when I kind of like going back to what you're saying, fine being a four-letter word.

I thought everything was fine until the moment when I had the stroke.

[00:14:15] S.A. Grant: Hm.

[00:14:18] S.A. Grant: were you in the

[00:14:22] S.A. Grant: I was there a few hours. So it happened on a Sunday night. I woke up on Monday and I was like, the hell with that shit. I'm going to get out by Friday. So I left

[00:14:31] S.A. Grant: did you? Hell yeah, I left. I started walking the same day. Yeah.

[00:14:39] S.A. Grant: so driven To learn.

[00:14:46] S.A. Grant: So it was multiple phases. So as far as like my hands, that was interesting. So that took me like, like maybe a few weeks of therapy to kind of get that hand strap back.

I started walking the same day, right after the surgery. So that, that Monday, they was like, you could wait until Wednesday. I was like the hell with that. I need to get out by Friday. So I'm walking today. So I started walking around the hospital that Monday got stronger Tuesday. Um, so by Friday of that week, they checked me out, uh, like potentially I was okay to leave the hospital, but then would you don't realize that.

This type of thing is that their side effects. So obviously my brain had some swelling to it. So my speech had completely slowed down. Like I'm a native new Yorker, so I'm Lulu. And imagine me having a sudden drawer. Six months, 98 different. So who I am right now. So for the next six months, it was just kind of like regaining my thought process.

Again. I always think a mile a minute. And then I started realizing that I had to kind of stop, stop everything I was doing in this kind of like wait for my brain and my body to catch up to then have a conversation or to conclude that concept that, that usually pops in my hand. It pops out that quickly.

And so. There was also depression as well, which was another side effect that you have to deal with. So for the next central 12 months, I was fighting all those battles to kind of move forward, to get to where I am right now.

[00:16:03] S.A. Grant: to run your businesses? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the beautiful part of like the cerebral brand was kind of like, you know, I had clientele I had, and everyone was kind of understanding of what was going on.

So the definitely the revenue was still there. I needed something different. I needed to completely change. And I was like, everything that I've ever done, it was kind of 20, 20 being hindsight, Boston cage wouldn't exist right now if I didn't have that stroke. So that was like my wake up moment to be like, okay, you know, I got all these different things in my mind, all these different achievers, all these different accomplishments that I've made, but it was in the wrong vehicle, the wrong.

So then when I hit that switch and I had to kind of rebuild and rebrand, hence essay versus Chanel grant, that's when I hit that switch, I was like, I'm going to rebrand myself. I'm going to, you know, I was already a single book author at that point in time, but my next goal was okay, now I'm going to produce more books.

So from then, until now I've produced total of eight books. And then from then until now produced the podcast and academy, and I've done the same amount of that I had with the original brand I do with this brand. But now it's all streamlined into one product into one vision into one.

[00:17:18] S.A. Grant: Like

[00:17:20] S.A. Grant: to do as a legacy kind of thing.

[00:17:28] S.A. Grant: it all comes together.

Yeah. And, and, and it's like, what the worst scattered from the outside in it, it seemed to be scattered, but again, lack of show you.

I had all these different boards and these different schematics and drawings of all the connections to where 10 years down the road, everything would make perfect sense if I had got to that level. But until Dennis seems scattered. So I definitely agree with you as far as. When I was doing it, I was like, I was doing all these things, but I wasn't documenting the processes.

And I was like, if I was to die on that table right then and there, I would have left the business that was completely scattered from my family. Couldn't really just jump in there and take it over. My son couldn't jump in there. He was, you know, younger anyway, but he couldn't jump in there and take over versus Boston cage now.

Well, I'm documenting every single time I get on a plane. I'm telling the story of my story, of how I've overachieved and I'm telling the story of someone else. So now the documentation of these stories becomes a legacy for the next generation to achieve whatever they want to achieve.

[00:18:26] S.A. Grant: following in your At times. So he he's really big into like stocks for, for a while. There I'm big into like, you know, currency exchanges and stuff like that. We took them to a couple different, um, seminars just for him to kind of see what does he want to do with that. But he's 16. So he understands. He's grew up in an entrepreneurial family and household.

Like every time he asked me for something, I always tell him to run the numbers, like come back with the numbers, give me the equation, you know? So he he's gotten in trouble in school. Let's put it that way. Cause he's always been hustling from elementary school until high school. He's always found a way to, to increase or gain capital.

[00:19:08] S.A. Grant: raising entrepreneurs,

[00:19:15] S.A. Grant: raised by entrepreneurs,

[00:19:24] S.A. Grant: sure.

It is. But to your point, I mean, having that legacy behind you, even though it was not money with this, to see the experience like to be in a, in a, I'm saying this not facetiously, but I think we would be competing with Elon Musk and on that level, because again, having that foresight of that legacy behind you to not make those same mistakes gives you enough, enough opportunity to make whatever you want in that lifetime.

[00:19:51] S.A. Grant: how to think differently. Yeah.

[00:19:58] S.A. Grant: Yep. I totally agree. Totally agree.

[00:20:07] S.A. Grant: pretty quickly.

[00:20:20] S.A. Grant: than you did before?

What are some of the tools that you used? So there's no necessarily tooth. I mean, back then, I was really big into working out and, and rock climbing and doing all these different things. So now, like, you know, taking vacations with the family, um, you know, a couple of years ago I took up sailing.

So anytime I get opportunity to kind of go out and sail and kind of just woo. That's kind of where I'm at right now, but to, to like, as far as systems in place, it's just processes, man. Like the more processes and systems that you have, the easier things get for you. And that's something that I was developing, but not executing now.

I'm definitely executing and developing at the same time. So as something new comes into mind, a new thing that I wanted to create and develop, I'm documenting all those processes or I'm creating systems in place. So you can just simply hit a button and at least 65% of whatever needs to get done will get done.

[00:21:17] S.A. Grant: or

[00:21:21] S.A. Grant: place now

[00:21:23] S.A. Grant: to

[00:21:25] S.A. Grant: avoid what you went through.

For me, it was kind of like wanting to know a little bit about everything and doing it. And in reality, you have a lifetime, right? And they say your lifetime is 70 years.

There's almost impossible for you to make all those achievements yourself. So what you're going to have to do as early as possible. And I'm talking about like in high school, if you know that dude that's in high school right now, that's like a gaming genius or he's a computer with. Become best friends with that person start communicating and talking with them because eventually within five years from graduating, you have an opportunity to hire that person to help you get to the next level.

So instead of doing it all yourself, position yourself around like-minded people that have specialties, and it's pretty easy to recognize them if you're around them every single day in school.

[00:22:21] S.A. Grant: Okay.

[00:22:25] S.A. Grant: done? Like,

[00:22:27] S.A. Grant: some way that you could have prevented that stroke from.

Uh, probably not working 22 out of 24 hours around the clock literally day in, day out. Um, it just, it just takes a toll, you know, you get to the point to time till you're spinning on that wheel and you don't realize you're spending on the wheel.

You're just seeing your goal. And what your goals are potentially getting farther, farther away as your health is starting to digress. So taking enough time to kind of stop and realize and to reflect like literally take a minute to just kind of reflect and breed. And I think having a family helps that I think unfortunately for me was kind of like I had primary custody of my son.

And I had no wife. So I was simply a single guy with a kid. So whatever his schedule was, I was there for it, but everything outside of his schedule while he was at school or at night when he was sleeping, I just pushed myself to the brick versus now, you know, my wife would turn over and be like, dude, it's time for you to turn off the damn lights.

It's time for you to, so that extra person, that extra equivalent equal in your household makes such a drastic difference. That way you're not going to end up making the same mistakes. She's not gonna let me make the same.

[00:23:44] S.A. Grant: evening routines,

[00:23:48] S.A. Grant: like that?

I wouldn't say necessarily it's the routine I could tell you, like. Studying all the books that, all the things that I've read over the years and just trying to figure out scheduling, scheduling. So for no longer they'll okay. I'll wake up at nine o'clock and then obviously, you know, you gotta take a kid to school, so you wake up six o'clock.

So now I'm at the point to where every day I wake up somewhere between three to four o'clock in the morning. So. Opening hours. It just gives me such an opportunity to kind of, not even, I don't even look at emails, I just kind of go into whatever content I want to create for that day. Or checking on something that I've signed up for like a promotion or some marketing things that, or an affiliate deal.

And I kind of get like the low hanging fruit things that?

I know could be fruitful out the way before nine o'clock even hits.

[00:24:34] S.A. Grant: time did you go to bed?

So an average now, like I said, it's funny. Cause I feel like I'm, I'm a drug addict I'm hooked on like these melatonin gummies. literally like around eight o'clock I'll pop my five mil and like literally, no matter what I'm doing and my pop five mil in 15 minutes, I'm gonna.

[00:24:54] S.A. Grant: So somewhere between like nine o'clock is probably like, like about my current bedtime versus before my current bedtime was two, three o'clock in the morning. So it was like, I flipped it. I used to go to bed to three o'clock in morning. Now I wake up three, four o'clock in the morning.

[00:25:09] S.A. Grant: of like the.

[00:25:22] S.A. Grant: the morning.

[00:25:23] S.A. Grant: you get the most like spiritual

[00:25:28] S.A. Grant: I totally agree. Like literally, like I've gotten to the point now where I do podcasts throughout the day, but if I'm thinking about, like, to your point about how wide I'm spread, as far as the brand of Boston cage would nine out of 10 of these ideas or concepts came to be in the early morning, like.

And I'm a big listener to audio books. So I'm brushing my teeth and like, people make fun of it. But I will say like by two birds literally is an Alexa device that plays the audio book while I'm brushing my teeth. So I'm getting that information early in the morning and then I'm taking action. As soon as I listen to that chapter, I'm like, okay, I need to do something with that.

And we take a note, let me actively put that into my processes.

[00:26:11] S.A. Grant: I, yeah.

I used to be denied out, man. Like literally I think that's probably one of the best things I've ever done. And it just, you wake up refreshed.

If that makes it makes sense, versus going to bed at two o'clock the next day, you're kind of fighting not to wake up, but you know, you have to wake up because the world around you is already up. And then by the time you wake up, it's probably like nine o'clock, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock. And by the time you actually do something is noon.

And then the day is pretty much over. You get those first two hours, you get more done in those first two hours, then you can potentially eight hours.

[00:26:43] S.A. Grant: Yeah. Yeah. That's

[00:26:51] S.A. Grant: to think of what else there was another question I had in my head. I'll let my editor, we'll

[00:26:55] S.A. Grant: but, um,

[00:27:00] S.A. Grant: you and now

[00:27:03] S.A. Grant: Um,

[00:27:19] S.A. Grant: talk about books, right? Yep.

[00:27:23] S.A. Grant: your

[00:27:27] S.A. Grant: what are you looking forward to reading so many different things, man, it's like, I'm at the point now where I'm trying to?

push out at least a book. I could just load my audio bull and tell you exactly what I'm listening to right now. Um, so I'm finishing up the launch by Jeff Wall. Because I'm just in that phase of like, I just recently created a launch course and I see like my philosophies of like how to do launch strategy and marketing and everything else.

So just kind of like, even though you have competition, don't look at them as competition, look, to see what are they communicating? What are they talking about? So if you have not launched anything or you're thinking about launching. By all means, go out there and download as much information as you possibly can.

Um, Jeff Walker is definitely a good example of that. Um, next in line, after that book has done is going to be building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller.

[00:28:19] S.A. Grant: my packages list. Yeah. And that's also in my, like you were saying, the book clubs. So the book club, essentially the concept behind that is every time I do an interview, I always ask the question, what books have you read?

What books are you reading? And have you authored any books? And usually. I'll probably get six to eight books from that one.

question. And so as those books are coming in my team, what they do, they'll go in, create the cover, art, create all the stuff, and they will put it inside the book club and we're associated to the episode.

So like at this point, I think we had like 400 books or something like that. And in our book club,

[00:28:52] S.A. Grant: I love that question

[00:28:55] S.A. Grant: a big reader

[00:29:02] S.A. Grant: as much time

[00:29:04] S.A. Grant: I

[00:29:08] S.A. Grant: uh, main

[00:29:12] S.A. Grant: are my two things.

Yeah, definitely. I totally agree with you. I mean, and the reality is, is a lot of times you can kind of get a mix of both, right? Some, some of the new age books, they kind of play music as they're speaking to you.

[00:29:26] S.A. Grant: of music,

[00:29:36] S.A. Grant: what do you listen?

to turn down for? What like that? That is what I saw Point blank period by little John. I mean, there's other songs, but when that song first came out and I was like, and then when the video came out, it sealed it for me.

Like the video translate a song that says the same word over and over again, repeatedly with the visual representation of it is so phenomenal was just kind of like your mouth hits the floor every single time you watch it and listen to it.

[00:30:02] S.A. Grant: the show

[00:30:07] S.A. Grant: still when you're listening to that. No.

[00:30:12] S.A. Grant: So

[00:30:16] S.A. Grant: you, what's the best way for them to reach you? I would say the podcast, man, cause the podcast kind of what I've learned is some people they want to kind of get a little nuance to who you are.

So if you listen to a couple episodes, you'll know exactly who I am, right. And then obviously if you want to kind of communicate, there's a hundred different ways of communicating through the, with the podcast channel. So I would just say, go to podcast.boston, cage.com, subscribe to that, and then you'll get access to me and Lisa at the bottom line, you'll at least learn something from the people that I interview.

[00:30:47] S.A. Grant: me today

[00:30:49] S.A. Grant: a four-letter. Well, I appreciate you having me. It was definitely fun. And I got to answer some questions that I haven't really spoke about recently, at least.