We dive deep into the classic thriller *Wait Until Dark* this week, exploring its intense cat-and-mouse game and the brilliant performance by Audrey Hepburn. We also chat with filmmaker Meredith Berg (@merebergvin), who's got some exciting projects in the works, including her new film *Stay*. You know we love movies that keep us on the edge of our seats, and this one definitely fits the bill. We’ll also sprinkle in some witty banter and hot takes on the flick’s standout moments. So grab your popcorn, kick back, and let’s get into it!

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The following footage is certified pg.

Pretty great.

It's Anomaly Presents with your friends, the podcastronauts.

Sounds like a lot of supernatural baloney to me.

Supernatural perhaps.

Baloney, perhaps not.

Welcome to the Anomaly Presents podcast.

My name is Matt Austin.

This is a podcast about the genre movies that inspired a genre film festival.

That's the Anomaly Film Fest coming to you this November 11th through the 15th.

Yeah.

In the year.

We need that extra day.

We need that extra day to pack in all the goodness.

It will be taking place once again at the Little Theater and Dryden Theater in beautiful Rochester, New York.

We are here with our cast of podcastronauts that we usually have here.

It's Kristin Pelk, Pacheco.

Hey everybody.

Happy to be here.

It's Megan Murphy.

Hey.

They're still taking my calls, haven't dropped out yet.

And we are very lucky to have a guest here tonight to discuss the film Wait Until Dark.

It's a classic and who better to have to discuss it with us than Meredith Berg, filmmaker, producer, short film and Anomaly.

If you saw a tether, Meredith directed, wrote that her new horror film.

You're shooting that this summer, right?

It's called Stay starring Erica Alexander.

You've got a production company, Beryllium Productions, with your husband, right?

Ethan.

Ethan Irwin.

And do you want to take a second and talk about Stay and also the first film you're producing?

Absolutely.

Thank you so much for having me on.

I'm so excited to talk to all of you and so excited to talk about this movie, Wait Until Dark.

It's my, one of my favorites.

Maybe it's one of my top.

It's the top favorites.

Change all the time, I cannot commit.

But it's definitely in the top.

And yeah, I'm so excited.

I just started my production company with my partner and producing partner Ethan Irwin.

And for our right out the gate we have a film shooting in May that is an action comedy with Jason Statham called Jason Statham Stole My Bike that David Leitch is directing that we're shooting in May in London, which we're very excited about.

And then later, toward the end of summer and into fall, I'll be shooting my first feature as a director, which is a supernatural horror called Stay that is starring Erica Alexander as a traveling businesswoman who works way too hard and travels way too much for her company that takes way too much.

And she stays in off brand hotels to save her billion dollar company money.

And she stays at a particularly off brand hotel that will not let her leave.

And at first she's Working so hard she doesn't even notice.

And it's like taking hair in the shower.

It's taking like little things out of the luggage.

All the hotels, watching all the hotels, part of it and alive.

And when she has a bloody nose, it takes the blood out of the tissue into the furniture.

It just wants to take and take and take and take.

And it's not until she starts to leave that she's like, wait a minute.

This hallway already went down.

This hallway.

This door is locked.

This door is locked.

She realizes she can't get out and it wants the rest of her.

And she's trying to get out before it can consume her.

And she's actually realizing that even if she did get out, she'd really be trapped in her all consuming job.

Can't.

Well, can't see.

I'm ready.

Yeah, no, it doesn't.

It's not.

I can't go see her right now.

This is the worst.

Yeah, I'm marking it now.

That's very much my kind of stuff.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Yeah, it's very fun.

And Erica plays the lead of Layla and she's just going to be so brilliant.

She's so intelligent and she's so funny.

So it's not like a slog.

Even though the material is quite dark and scary, she has such charm and wit.

She's going to keep it kind of light amidst the darker times.

So that's going to be like a nice roller coaster.

I am so thrilled.

I think I have a new favorite genre movie and it's just.

It's Meredith Berg movies.

I think that's going to be my new favorite genre.

I am so excited.

Tether was a great short and I'm just excited to see everything that you make.

Hey, Jerry.

We are here to talk about Wait Until Dark, which is a brand new movie to the three of us.

This is one of your favorites, right?

Yes.

This is definitely a formative experience.

Also, it was a play before it was a film and I'm originally a theater director and I absolutely love seeing the DNA of theater and everything.

So I think it hits me on both those levels.

It was absolutely.

It's the perfect thrill.

I saw as I was doing some research here, it was described as the best movie Hitchcock never made.

Oh, that's a great description and I really enjoyed that.

Right.

And it's really just so unbelievably actor driven.

I think that's really an amazing thing.

It's really Murderer's Row, if you'll Pardon the phrasing.

Incredible character actors.

Let's.

Let's go with this.

What was your.

Your reaction to.

To.

To the neophytes to it?

I know what mine was.

Kp, do you want to talk about how, how you reacted when you.

When you watched this?

Was it yesterday in daylight?

No, unfortunately, today it was literally today, because I just got back in town, so I wish I could watch.

I'm going to rewatch it before I take it back to the library and at dark, like, at nighttime, because that's what it needs to be enjoyed.

But at first I was like, okay, I like Audrey Hepburn, and just about anything I see her in, I'm really intrigued by this.

And the little girl kind of losing it for a minute, took me out.

And then immediately I kind of jump back in once they settle down.

And then I'm like, okay, how is this going to play out?

How are we going to start the cat and mouse part a little bit?

How is she going to slowly start to catch on?

And then the last, you know, like 15 minutes, I'm, like, clenching the couch.

I'm like, oh, no.

Yes.

It ratchets up the tension because you're just kind of following along for a little bit, waiting for it to get bad, and then it really ramps it up.

Yeah, I guess.

As for me, like, I was aware of it, right?

It's one of those films, like, it's always been on my list, right?

And, you know, I've seen stills and.

And clips, but of course, seeing it all together, it's so well constructed.

Like, it tells you everything you need to know so you understand later.

I loved all those.

Those little bits of even just like Lisa in the beginning, our drug mule, right?

The fact that, like, she sees Sam, who is our protagonist, like, boyfriend, right?

Like, she already kind of.

Oh, we have a little connection because she, like, helps him in the airplane.

So then that's why she goes to him when she needs to get rid of the doll.

Like, just that little stuff.

Like, he's not.

It's not out of nowhere.

It was just that little connection that.

We all could have done.

Like, yeah, if someone helped me.

And then all of a sudden, I'm the face of, like, here, take this heroin stuff doll for me.

It's definitely not going to cause any problems or stuff like the squeaky shoes, which is so great because we hear it too.

Like, we know that just as she's recognizing that.

I mean, I'll go through and talk about, like, all these little details that come in.

I love the Setup of a character who is newly blind so it understands why she's still maneuvering through this world.

And I love this story of, like, she doubts herself.

And it's partly like, listen, I don't like Sam.

I don't like her boyfriend.

I think he's kind of a jerk, right?

He's not helping the situation because she feels less than it, because he.

I'm sure it's coming from a place of, I just want you to be able to function.

Right.

But she, in her head's like, well, I'm helpless.

Right?

So the whole story is this woman as she realizes how alone she is in the situation, she has to not be helpless, but not.

I'm a total badass now, but in a.

Okay, I. I am alone.

I have to figure this out way.

Which I love, because she's panicking the whole time at the end, understandably, but still focused, which I think you're just locked in with Audrey Hepburn the entire time you're with Susie.

Like, oh, my God.

What.

What would I do?

It's one of those movies where you're like, what would I do?

I don't know.

So, yeah, all that.

Just all those little setups that pay off is very satisfying.

What about you, Matt?

Yeah, you got to answer question two.

Well, thanks, Meg.

Yeah, yeah, no, I think that that's exactly right.

It unfolds really well as kind of a classic mystery.

It's fun to try.

And, I mean, you kind of know what it is, but you're following the breadcrumbs as Susie's following them, even though obviously, you know, the overarching.

You know what.

What Rote and his gang.

I guess we should probably do a little bit of a plot synopsis here, but essentially, there's a drug mule.

She has a doll with heroin inside of it.

She leaves the.

The.

The doll with Sam, Susie's boyfriend.

And then we get a couple con men that show up at the apartment to try and find the doll.

And then there's a scheme formed by the con men and then a, I guess another criminal, which is played by the incredible Alan Arkin, who.

Absolutely.

Con men.

And a complete psychopath.

Yeah.

And a psychopath.

Yeah.

Very interesting, because he's.

Yeah.

Yes.

He's, like, so laid back.

And then the first time he takes the knife out, you're like, oh, he is very dangerous.

He has a knife that he named, like, right there.

You're like, oh, I.

Okay, I'm starting to clue in.

And his, like, low quietness while he's completely psychotic.

Is so scary.

Yeah.

Terrifying.

As.

As someone who's known Alan Arkin as, you know, genteel older gentleman, you know, kind of wry guy.

Know, to see him in this where he's just completely quietly unhinged is incredible.

I loved.

Yeah.

With the knife.

Cassandra.

Well, what does she do?

She's the referee of this.

Like, oh, that is cold as ice.

Right.

But it's essentially these three criminals trying to trick Susie into helping them find the doll in the apartment.

So it's them playing this game.

It's essentially a cat and mouse game between the three of them where they've come up with different ruses, including costumes, which were hilarious.

Yeah.

They don't realize that she's blind at first.

Yeah.

And then they're like, oh, this is going to be so much easier.

And then they don't.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's basically like an hour of them gaslighting Susie into thinking that something's happening and her boyfriend is probably involved.

So it's for the best, you know.

And you get there and you're getting angry for her.

You're like, these guys are such assholes.

And they're.

And she's invulnerable.

She's allowed to be vulnerable in this movie.

Right.

So I love that because it's about, you know, just.

You're getting angry and you're like.

But you're also like, oh, my God, how is she going to.

Especially once her boyfriend's like, I'm just gonna take off.

Don't worry, you got this.

And then he leaves the cigarette butt in the ashtray.

I was like, that.

That wasn't a plan or a test.

That was just him, like, endangering his own girlfriend before the plot even happens.

The men in this movie are atrocious from start to finish.

And like, what did not.

Right.

Yeah.

The one thing that a modern day maybe version would be like by going through this entire journey, this horrible.

This horrible trial that she goes through, she should have the strength at the end to break up with Sam.

Oh, yeah.

That's the one thing I was like, don't go to him when he's like, walk to me, walk to me.

This poor woman is beyond traumatized.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my God.

That's the final thing she does.

Yeah.

Right.

Oh, man.

I think the.

The character work is so great.

Like, all these characters are because it's a fairly, I would say, simple setup.

Right.

Newly blind lady.

Well, toucan artists and psychopath are playing characters to try to manipulate and trick her into giving a doll, which she doesn't even know where it is at first.

Right.

She's just trying to maneuver through a situation while her boyfriend is, you know, off.

He's also being manipulated, but who gives a crap?

He's off and does not seem to care.

We are very.

Sam here.

We are.

Yeah.

No, I'm going to be honest.

I'm sorry.

No, Sam here.

No, it's there.

But, like.

Yeah, but so I want to start with.

And maybe like, what your thoughts on this, Meredith?

I love that, like, we have one of the con artists.

Was it Tallman, played by Richard Crenna, who is.

He's more sympathetic than Sam in many ways, which I think is very important.

First to kind of.

So you start having hope, like, oh, if anyone's going to, like, maybe not terrorize and murder this blind woman, it'll be him.

But also, he's doing something the most manipulative because he's, like, pretending to be her boyfriend's friend.

And then, like, he's gonna be the supportive one who shows up when she needs, like.

Oh, yeah, they're always.

Yeah.

He even takes his glove off to, like, touch her.

But, like.

So I'm.

I'm very curious.

Especially, like, we're talking about these villains.

We have, like, the.

The nice guy, the.

Like the.

The ex cop who is just kind of a.

Kind of a lump a loaf, but that's what his job is.

Right.

And then you have like, a man who.

You don't know what his limits are.

You keep learning that there are none.

Yeah.

Right.

So, like, what's it like?

What kind of like, that kind of setup?

Right?

Like, what about that?

Like, did you, like.

I would guess that it might be something that really drew you in.

Like, you're interested in, like, how are they working?

Yeah.

It's so great because again, like, you're saying, are you are throughout the film hoping for different things to work out for her and getting more and more terrified that she's.

She's not going to have a way out.

Yeah.

And so you're, like, clutching out of this idea.

Maybe this criminal isn't so bad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a wild situation to be in where you're like, come on, one bad guy.

Or maybe this girl, this little girl,.

Gloria, who is such a chaos monkey.

She gives me so much anxiety.

But, like, what is she gonna do?

Like, this is kind of a cruel child.

I wish every day was like this.

Yeah, right.

She's on board.

Take away her support system little by little with all these Things, right?

Then you realize how little support she actually had.

And until she really is forced to just do it herself.

And I love, love, love stories where there.

It's unfair.

Like, it's unfair.

This protagonist is so screwed.

Everything is against them.

There's no way they're gonna make it through, but they have to somehow anyway.

And I love that in a story.

And I love that there's like.

I mean, the point there's like, wants and needs.

I always love in a story when want and need is, like, really clear and, like, combat with each other.

You really want someone to save her, but what you need is for her to save herself.

So there's so many times when you almost get what you want, but you're really supposed to get what you need.

And I love that push and pull with the audience.

And it only really works if you also want the want.

You know, if you see the want, you're like, no, you don't really.

That's not actually better for you.

Get what you need.

It doesn't work.

But when you're like, no, just maybe.

The criminal will solve everything.

It's fine.

Well, I love that setup that they're very clear that, you know, they're being blackmailed into this next level.

Like, they're just con men, their whole thing.

The reason they knew the Mule Lisa is they had a whole setup where, like, she would basically tempt married men.

And then they play the whole, like, the ex cop would play the cop.

And so you have the idea of, like, that was the level they were at.

In fact, I believe Tallman at one point asked, is anyone going to get hurt when a rote is.

Right?

So again, it's offering this.

Like, okay, if anything, it'll probably be him, right?

He's making a human connection with her.

Yeah.

Here.

Here.

Everyone watches.

We're probably going to go into spoilers at some point.

So just so you all know, because we're discussing the film when that moment comes when, like, okay, he's at the end when she's like, I'm not giving you the doll, right?

Because he's the one who shows up first, right?

So, and.

And he's like, well, listen, we think he says he, we've killed Rote, which is wild because they haven't.

But he's like, you know what?

Okay, like.

And he's going to leave you.

Like, okay, all right, he's had it.

They took it.

And then he's in the doorway and everything's already all dark and so you can't see behind him.

And then all of a sudden he goes.

And you realize that roast behind him and stabbed him and then pushes his body down and you're like the, the way it kicks you in the chest and takes your oxygen because you're like her, like her.

Her best bet right now is dead.

He's gone.

That's the part.

Even though it wasn't perfect, you're desperate for torture.

Yes.

And I just thought that was such a great setup for the end because you're like, it just sucks all the oxygen out of you, you know?

Yeah, it's really, it's so much like.

I love, I love a great, like, character arc theme, interwoven thing where it's so much about she's been kicked down by this new disability and she.

I love stories where like, someone has a huge flaw and they, they could probably function highly, you know, they could probably ignore it.

They could probably get by, you know, with a lesser life, but they could squeak by and then you throw them into a situation where it's like, no, no, you have to change or die.

And this is, I think this very much informed me from this from, you know, an early age, seeing this.

I don't know why I saw it at an early age and.

But thanks.

Work a lot.

But it's very much like, you know, you really are on this whole journey of, of her having to finally face this flaw and change or die.

And it's so satisfying because of that.

It's so emotionally satisfying.

It's so cathartic because of that.

And that drives so much of what I like to do as a storyteller.

So.

Yeah, I mean, I, I loved every, every, every, every little bit that was like, well, this guy's a chance.

Or.

And then I love that you were talking about how it sets up the rules for a while and it sets up what she can, what she can figure out what this area has and doesn't have, you know, in terms of lighting that she's natural with.

I, I love a rules based problem where, you know, like, like a quiet place or something where you're like, oh, they can hear you.

Okay.

I like to call those the floors made of lava stories, you know.

Okay, the floor made a lot.

We know that.

So as long as you don't touch the floor, you know, and then you throw in like, oh, no, but the couch is on fire.

It's like, okay, now you can't, you know, so you already know one thing and now, so you don't need to be told it again.

You now Know what to be afraid of and how much things have ratcheted up.

And I love that, like, she is blind.

That is, in a way, the mythology.

That is the rule.

And I love that that means that is both a weakness and a strength.

I love that her weakness becomes her strength.

The whole, like, her.

Her smashing the lights, her trying to take away.

Him being able to see is one of my favorite things in all stories ever.

The way that her weakness becomes his weakness is the best.

Yeah, I love that I started.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

Oh, no.

I was like, I love that whole section.

And I do.

Like, even starting from Mike getting killed is like, this movie's really great about not showing you things and letting your brain kind of run wild with the scariest bits.

Because as a still as adult, afraid of the dark.

But so when it goes pitch black and you're hearing her kind of panicked and, like, trying to get away from him.

Right.

You're just like, saying, yeah, no, Yeah, I will say.

When that light turned out of the fridge, I was like, oh, no, I was.

I.

So good.

It's so good.

I like.

Yeah.

You know, they have like a.

Yeah.

Well, what I love, I actually started making notes because there's a certain point where, like, you start realizing that she notices more than she's letting on.

Right.

Because we're noticing stuff, but, like, we don't know what she's noticing.

So I started going, like.

And it sounds right, like that one of the first things like, she mentions is, so this is all kind of a running gag in the beginning where our two con men realized they left fingerprints everywhere.

And that's part of what wrote.

Danny's like, okay, because there is a corpse there.

Like, he stashed Lisa.

Hey, guys.

Everyone.

Lisa doesn't make it.

And it's a great scare because she's, like, hanging in a garment bag in the closet.

Yeah.

And kind of appears.

Oh, it's so good.

But anyway, so like, oh, no.

Right.

But especially our ex cop still kind of thinks that he can kind of fix this.

So when he comes over pretending to be a cop, you see him just wiping down stuff as he's walking around.

And later when, you know, Susie's talking to Mike, who she thinks she's going to trust, she's like, I don't know.

There's something weird about the sergeant.

He was like, dusting.

Is this house dirty?

And you realize, oh, she heard him doing all that stuff.

He knows more than anything.

Yeah.

She hears the squeaking of roach shoes when he shows up as the old Mr. Rote and then realizes they're basically the same shoes when he's playing young Mr. Rote.

Fantastic.

I love the one thing.

So when these con artists are kind of like, they're playing her and they're trying to time, like, who comes in when to, like, get her scared.

And then Mike will come in.

So they're using the blinds that face outwards in her apartment.

So they'll just like, they'll do the classic little close and open, right?

We find out she's heard the blinds being played with the entire time, which makes sense because they're not quiet.

And you hear them on the soundtrack, which is just, oh, it's so good.

Then she recognizes the tune.

She's very smart.

Yeah, yeah.

She recognizes the doll's tune because it plays to make the style creepier.

It's stuffed with heroin and it plays music.

It does everything and it has dead eyes.

So I love, I love, I love all those little setups.

It's all the stuff that you eventually go, oh, she's been paying attention.

She doesn't know what it means yet.

She doesn't know what it means yet.

But she realizes, oh, that's weird.

He's dust and stuff.

And I love that because then it all plays in when she starts figuring out like, wait a second.

And then she asked Gloria, hey, can you see if there's a police car out there?

Because Mike says there's a police car out there and they're watching me.

And I love that you can see it click when she's like, no, there's a van.

And you can see her go like, oh, who can I trust here?

And that's just so great because it's all built up to all this stuff that she's been trying to put together.

And then that, oh, you're like, oh, she's, she's like, oh, shit, I don't know.

You know, something bad's happening.

All the, all the fear, all the tension, almost all the tension.

And this whole thing is dramatic irony.

It's so much that we see what she can't see.

And so when she is putting together, obviously she's doing this masterful Oscar nominated performance, but we, when she's putting it together, we see 1 and 1 equaling 2 because we've been, we are seeing and we're waiting for her to put it together.

And we see the moment she puts it together and also can't let him know she knows.

So it's this really, really great dramatic irony for us and her.

And then Also, what she's doing to him.

So it makes it so suspenseful.

It's so good.

Kp, I have a question, because we're heading towards the ending, right?

And I know you don't like the dark and you're not a fan of jump scares.

Yeah.

This is one of the best top.

10 Jump scares of all time.

Top 10 jump scares.

And I just.

Like, as a friend, KP, I'm curious.

How did you experience.

Because the last part is her and Rope.

Because he's the only one left because he's a psychopath killer.

And he's like, well, now I've got this blind lady.

There's no back.

They make sure there's no back exit.

He's chained the door.

So now he doesn't matter if he gets a doll or not.

You're pretty sure he's going to kill her no matter what.

Because he enjoys it, right?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

She's in the.

She's in with the lion in the cage.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's.

I'd say it.

It really hits.

I mean, obviously.

Yeah.

I'm like, sitting there like, oh, no.

What?

What?

I. I'm not done yet.

Because she hasn't gotten out yet.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

So perfectly.

Also very acrobatic.

I mean, he just liked.

I feel like if someone throw him off, like, okay,.

Yeah, that was the reaction.

We were watching it last night and my wife goes, did they launch him out of a cannon?

How did that happen?

But it worked because it's so sudden and, like, beyond human almost.

It really was coming out from, like, dark.

You have this wide shot where you're seeing everything and it's hanging on it.

And you know, you.

Because also, like, what?

Because you know the rules.

You know exactly how far away she is from safe.

So, yeah, you're rooting for her.

Rooting for her, rooting for her.

And you're like, oh.

And he thinks she's pretty far away, but not further than a trip, please.

Yeah.

You know what's wild is watching that and the way it's framed, right?

Because it's just like this horizontal.

It's almost exactly the same as that jump scare in Exorcist 3, that famous one with the nurse.

Because it's like the exact same.

It's coming from left to right.

She's just about crossed over.

You're like.

You think something's going to happen and you don't know what it is.

And here's the thing.

Even though you're ready, you can't guess that it's just action leaping from the left, right?

Yes, it is totally like that.

Yes.

And I have a. I think it's because maybe that was everyone's favorite part of the play.

And so by that point you were practically proscenium style shot, you know, And I wonder if it's because there was nothing better than having a person leap across an entire stage at the Woman.

I must have killed it in the theater.

Oh, my God.

Right?

I still.

Knowing it's coming, I'll still probably go, ah, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Even when I know it's coming and it's like Henry Mancini did the music and like that sting.

That sting.

And then another setup, which is Sam didn't tell her where the damn refrigerator plug was.

He's like, you'll figure it out.

And it turns out she'll have to.

Figure out in the most dangerous situation where that is life or death, she has to turn that light up.

So again, I'm swearing at Sam while I'm watching this.

I just want, like, I'm cheering her on, but I'm also going, sam, this was unnecessary.

Kind of like rewatching the Shining as an adult and being like, oh, this is her story.

This is about how, like, you know, the social worker shows up early on and is like, this is not good.

And she's like, it's getting better.

And then she gets thrown into a situation where it's like, no, this is where you were gonna go.

He was going to kill you eventually.

We just sped it up.

And so the end of that movie is okay.

Now he's gone.

You finally got rid of him.

You did it.

I'm thinking, wait until dark.

You need a tag where she's like, sam, we're fucking done.

Yeah.

You know, I realized I can live without you.

Thank you.

I don't need you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That.

That moment.

Walk over to me.

No, you walk out the door.

This is Gloria walked over to her and she's semi feral.

She is.

Yes.

She is a chaos monkey.

My God.

Yeah.

I love Gloria because they set her up.

You understand why she's a mess.

Her parents are never there and she just got glasses.

Right?

So when she, like loses it and she's just throwing stuff at first you're like, oh, my God.

But she instantly like, oh, oh, she's a kid.

She instantly like, oh, you're right.

I was.

I was just upset.

Right.

But it established.

She's like, oh, she's sassy.

And she's another unreliable support.

Like, she's not right.

When she sends Gloria, go on like a little mission, you're like, I don't know about that one.

Yeah, she's all you got.

But I don't.

You can't trust her.

But she's tougher than, like, like, you know, she's tough because she's the one, like, where she's walking out because her whole goal is to go find Sam, tell him what's going on.

Right.

And she meets the ex cop out there and he's all like doing the whole, like, trying to intimidate, like, what do you have?

And she's like, I'm a Girl scout selling cookies.

So that little, like that little, little shitness pays off because she's not scared.

She just go, you know, she's having a great time on this adventure.

Maybe it's like, was it Riddle of Fire from, you know, years ago?

Where it's like a bunch of.

Where you're just like, the kids don't understand the danger.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The whole thing is a whole bunch of those kids do not understand that they are in real danger so they can move through the world differently.

Yeah.

That.

The first 35 minutes of Cloak and dagger.

Yeah.

It's that exact thing where it's just.

A kid doesn't understand the danger, which makes them a wild card.

I'm 12.

There's no such thing as mortal danger.

You know, like.

Yeah, exactly.

And you're like, these are killers.

Yeah.

But it's been established she's the kind of person that will move furniture around on a blind woman.

So it's.

There's really.

You don't know what she's going to do.

That makes it way scarier than if she was like an angel.

Yeah.

She has terrible support system all the way around.

And that's.

But the whole point is she needs to learn to do it herself.

Yeah.

Where is the whole reason she couldn't find the dollar?

Oh, my God.

So, oddly enough, again, might have saved it.

Because if the doll had been there, who knows what have happened?

Because we had this feeling that if the two guys found it, they probably would have left her alone.

But Rote was always going to finish all the tie, all the notes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He doesn't enjoys it.

Yeah.

Sunglasses.

How could you know?

Like, oh, this guy's a freak.

Yeah.

Blind woman.

I never had one of those.

Like, o,.

What a performance.

Like, American.

I don't think I could have handled him in any comedy role if I started with.

That's exactly it.

Yeah.

I. I was so shocked because it's so against his type.

But my God, he was a menace.

And I wish we had gotten more of that in his career too.

Like just two ends of the same.

Oh, my God, man.

Because yeah, it's not even a lovable villain.

It is truly like, oh, this guy is terrifying.

Yeah.

I'm pretty sure I know what he's capable of.

And it's anything.

Yeah, right.

It is anything.

There's no reasoning with him.

There's not.

Like you already know.

You're not going to waste time on it because you know it's not.

There's no.

He's a monster.

He's barely human.

Yeah, yeah.

It's not that, like, over the top, chaotic, antisocial behavior.

It's that really quiet.

He's not the Joker.

The quiet.

Yeah, yeah.

Everything is really calculated.

So just bloodthirsty.

Like I was getting violent, but really it's more bloodthirsty, like.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, even when he's mount mouse, what I'm thinking is like a cat.

It's like a Russian doll of cat and mouse games happening.

It's like he's explaining to the, like the con man.

He's like.

When he's telling Susie, he's like, oh, yeah, you know, I just played along with them.

It was always going to kind of end up this way because that's who they want, that's what they're used to, and that's what they thought.

He's like, yeah, there he's playing superhero, you know, comic book games and I'm over here playing Murder House.

Exactly.

He's ahead of everyone because he's completely unheld back.

Like he's completely.

Like, he is in a way the most powerful and most free because.

Because no, no morals.

Yeah.

Nothing holding him back.

He's just waiting to kill his first appearance.

Right.

He's the whole reason that Lisa gave the doll to Sam.

Cause like, she's coming off the plane and she just sees him and she knows instantly, bad news, bad news, bad.

Like, it's almost like she already knows, like it's over, but she's trying to feel like, okay, if I just get this doll away so I can be like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Right.

So even at first, and he's just.

How we see as an audience is he's up kind of high.

He's at some sort of vantage point in the airport just with those, those, those round sunglasses that you can't see his eyes.

Oh, those sunglasses.

Those are psycho sunglasses.

That's what I'm saying.

You can't see his eyes.

That visual language is already letting you know you don't know who he is, but like, bad news, bad.

So when he walks through that door, you're like, oh, oh, no, he's here now at our protagonist apartment, which we will get to know very well, which I appreciate.

Again, he sees more than she sees to start out with.

Right.

He's spying on her.

So there's a lot of like, you know, a lot of dramatic irony.

There's a lot of like within.

So many people are hiding things from so many others.

And then the audience is the only one who's like, he's right there.

Oh, God.

Oh.

The perfect example of he's right there.

Kyle's moose feeling.

Susie.

I'm thinking a good example of that.

Is when, like Gloria puts the doll back and then she's starting to help.

She's like, oh, he's coming to the window.

And you can see the doll still.

Slightly hanging on the couch.

But you know, like, like, no, please.

You know all the parts, you know all the people.

Yep.

And I think one of the reasons that, you know, that works so well, rules work so well, is like that you know when, when to be scared.

Like, for instance, you know, if, if you're, if you're falling asleep, Freddie's going to get you, you know, and so if you like, you see someone start to, you know, start to nod off.

No, please stop.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Get that hypnosil.

Get that stuff.

Yeah.

And I think, like from a very early age, I was just like in love with the puzzle and the rules and like, okay, this is the problem now.

How do you get out of it, but without breaking any rules?

Because then, then it's not.

Then it's like magic.

It doesn't matter.

Nothing matters anymore.

And you lose.

You lose all attention.

So it's like, no, no, no.

It's that hard and she still has to live.

Yeah, I appreciate that because I feel like an audience.

You're lied to when the rules get like broken.

No, I, I believe up to this.

Not that you can't like experimental, but like, if I'm talking about a well put together plot, it's the pieces coming together, not the.

Hey, wasn't like you said you couldn't do this and then you did this.

Like, it loses some of that, that pleasure.

Yeah.

It's like this is like action.

It's not horror, but like speed.

You know, if the car goes below, was it, was it 55 miles an hour, whatever.

Five miles an hour.

If, like, at one point you're like, oh, it's just got to go with 50 for a second.

Don't worry.

Oopsie.

Okay, now we're.

You would lose all intern.

You would lose all suspense.

I'm done with you, Sandra.

I would have gone then.

I'm not scared anymore.

We talking.

It's not like that.

And I feel like it's more powerful, too, because it plays with rules that aren't just built for the movie.

It's basically that same archetypical British mystery.

Like, it's the Agatha Christie archetype.

It's the Dorothy Sayers archetype.

It feels a little Ealing Street.

Yes, exactly.

Like the Alleghenist ones.

Like, was it Arsenic and Oval?

What was the other.

Oh, God, yeah, yeah.

Those ones where it's like the little nasty murder thrillers where everyone's lying to each other and half of them are Alec Guinness.

Yeah, right, exactly.

The audience walks in with those preconceived notions of this is how this mystery is going to work.

And.

It's all unfolding around them.

Like, yeah, no, this is the way the set pieces are.

But the fun is now we're watching Audrey Hepburn play the part of Poirot.

Yeah, yeah.

While the rules are being broken all around her, which I think is fantastic.

It's such a cool juxtaposition of how things usually work that it absolutely blew me away.

Exactly.

I have to mention the end song.

Craft me up so hard, because it's this big thriller, right?

There's this big thriller, blah, blah, blah.

And then this jazzy Henry Mancini.

It feels like the love theme to Wait Until Dark.

Wait until.

I was like, okay.

I don't know if it fits the movie, but I'm feeling okay to heal.

You after that jump scare.

Listen, we need a tie in on the radio.

So, yeah, marketing, like, yeah, the music.

Is great in the film.

It just seems so weird because I think.

But I think you're right, Mary.

Like, it was probably for radio play.

You can't play the Sting.

Yes.

Come to me.

It cracked me up so hard.

Can you imagine going to see that movie because of, like, a radio song and being like, what is this?

Oh, it's about people falling in love in New York City, you know, it.

Also had, like, absolutely peak marketing.

It was the poster that said, we're gonna bring the theater to.

Was it below the legal limit of darkness for you to watch out still?

It was that one.

And I was like, just so you Know, Warning, warning.

This is below the legal limit of.

Darkness for William Casseley.

Yeah.

Yes.

I'm so disappointed because one of the things I want to do.

Have you seen the trailer for this?

I don't know if I have.

If you get a minute and we'll put a link to it on the podcast episode when it comes out.

But the trailer is one of the best trailers I've ever seen because it's very much that.

It puts a warning slide up that says, you know, in the last 10 minutes of this film, we will make sure that it's completely dark.

If you're smoking in the theater, please extinguish your cigarette.

And also, of course, no one will be admitted in the last 10 minutes.

And it's right after this, like cut after cut after cut of the most nightmarish things happening.

Yes.

Audrey Hepburn.

I mean, they weren't lying.

No, it's.

It's so on the money.

It came up.

I rented it on itunes, store or whatever it is.

So when you do that, the trailer plays as you're going to buy the thing.

So I was like, it was Sunday afternoon and I was like, let me throw this on.

And I have an almost 11 year old.

I was like, we can all sit and watch this.

It's like a cool Audrey Hepburn thriller.

And the trailer.

And they froze playing Pokemon or whatever on their.

Their switch.

And that came up and by the end of the trailer they were just like.

I looked at my wife and I was like, so I guess we're gonna watch this later.

This is not gonna be.

Because it's that.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Perfectly cut together trailer.

It's.

It's.

Yeah, it's perfect.

They call that marketing event.

It's an event movie or an event.

Yeah, it's interesting to see even then sort of like you have to come, you have to see it.

It's only in the theater you're going to get this experience.

You know, we know it's interesting.

We just Anomaly just partnered to do a sneak peek for Undertone.

And it's so interesting because that is a film that it pays off being in a theater because it is very audio based.

It's a podcast where like spooky stuff's being listened to and oh no, maybe something's like being released.

Right?

And they literally have like near the end, there's parts that are almost pitch black or the screen goes dark where you are listening.

And it's so interesting because then I saw this like less than a week later.

I'm like, oh, that's still.

It's so effective when you are in a place like you're not so safe in the theater because all of a sudden it's dark.

You're like, wait a second, this isn't.

My home.

System going on.

And I was like, oh, I love that.

That's still continuing playing with what you can do in a theater.

Yeah, right.

I remember even telling Matt.

Not Matt, Austin, Matt to Turk.

We have too many mats.

I told you two too many.

When we went to play skin rink, he wanted to lower the lights as much as we could.

And I was like, people need to see in case of emergency.

Yeah, well, it's a legal limit.

What's the legal limit here?

Oh, the legal limit.

And he's like.

He's like, it's black.

I'm like, no, you know, thank you, kp for being the voice of reason because I definitely would have been like, but pitch black.

And you're like, lawsuit.

And I'm like, okay.

And think that there was no such thing as them actually doing anything below an illegal anything.

Absolutely.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

That's kind of like an advertisement.

Like.

Yeah, no, we're not doing that.

But we're going to tell you we did that.

So you think we did.

That theater is already black.

The lights are on.

Yeah.

It's way cheaper than dragging a skeleton across the ceiling over the crowd, though.

So that's like.

Yeah, we're gonna make it happen.

Okay.

I have a dream.

Yeah.

I don't know if you know this, but we've been talking about doing an emurgo style skeleton and showing house on haunted hill at Anomalies for eight years now.

Just figuring out how do we do it where a theater lets us and it's safe.

You know, like all of those.

At one point, Dan's brother drew a schematic of how we could actually make it work at the theater.

So we've got that somewhere.

You know, we have to have a.

Dream if we never get it.

Large potato.

Okay.

Oh, no.

Okay, Potato, maybe with wings, question mark.

Write it down.

Make sure it's really soft in case anything goes wrong.

Yeah, it's latex and foam.

Hey, buddy.

The one we have latex and foam.

If we take the post out of it, it'll be perfect.

Yeah.

The eyes are resin though, so it really depends on how you got hit.

It's true.

I got took out by a potato eye.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I need a new.

A new potato where you just draw it on or something.

Oh, see, that's safe.

You know What?

You guys, we gotta start taking notes.

Okay.

We're gonna do this.

I hope this happens.

Thank you.

We will make it happen.

Hopefully the next time you're at Anomaly, we'll make it happen.

Yeah.

Yes, Yes.

I know they sound like a little sneak, sneak information about when I wrote Tether, I'd actually written the feature film first and I knew there would be a lot of zero gravity involved.

And so I knew if I took out that script, the first question would be like, oh, you've never done this.

How are you gonna do this?

So I then wrote the short film which is a different woman trapped in space than the feature woman who was trapped in space.

And different.

Like in the short, it's a woman's first day in the feature.

She's been there way too long and it's getting weird and she needs to leave, but she won't leave.

And until like that bad enough things happen.

So you can see like there's a lot of influence from Wait until Dark and those.

But that is, that is where the short film came from.

And then the, the feature film just so you know a little bit about like.

It's a woman who had been in an accident that had killed her.

Sam had killed her.

Kill her.

Sam.

Yeah, Sam's dead.

It had killed her, killed her fiance and had damaged nerves in her legs.

So she wears braces to get around when there's gravity on.

And what she likes to do is she likes to turn the gravity off, pump some music and dance in zero G. And she's been out too long at this one person, you know, lighthouse in space, space station, because she doesn't want to deal with coming home.

And she just like, is just self defense medicating out there basically.

And until of course something worse finds her and forces her to do it.

But it's very much like the zero G. She uses it as kind of a balm.

But then when she does get attacked, that other person is not as used to zero G as she is.

So the thing that is, you know, she might have braces, but if she can just manage to get the gravity off.

Yeah.

If she can just get that last light, then the tables will turn.

And so it is very heavily influenced by Wait until.

Glad we saw it because like, ugh.

It's such a good setup.

Ugh.

So I, I think we're coming to the end of our time here, Meredith.

I'm sorry.

I'd love to spend more.

Thank you.

Hopefully someday you'll come back.

I know before we were talking about Maybe doing so I Married an Axe murderer, which is an all time favorite.

Yes, we'll do a whole Alan Arkin retrospective.

Yes, we'll do a year of Arkin.

Yeah.

Would you mind being our Alan Arkin expert?

We'll, we'll.

Anytime we have Arkin, we'll have to go deep.

Megan, you're going deep for us.

I'll do it.

So before we go, Meredith, do you have anything you'd like to talk about?

Anything you'd like to plug on our way out?

Well, we're going to be putting Tether, the short film up on, I believe YouTube will be where it lives.

We're making a brilliant channel, so we'll be putting that up publicly soon.

Check out tethershortfilm.com for updates and then also for general updates about what my company is up to.

You can look up berylliument.com Beryllium, spelled by the element on the periodic table.

Berylliument.com and hopefully we're good about keeping that updated.

And social media is always a challenge, but yeah, don't we know it.

Please follow and keep in touch.

And on Instagram, my handle is Mariburg Irwin, which is M E R E B E R G E R W I N. So please follow me there.

Thank you so much, Meredith.

It's been a pleasure.

Again, we had such a great time when you were here in Rochester with Heather.

It really meant a lot that you came out and you were an absolute delight all weekend.

We still talk about what a blast.

I still, I think about when you came in from the snow and you.

Yeah, because poor Meredith out from la got to experience all three, all four seasonal.

I'm like running around going, it's magical.

They're like, there's no.

From la.

You're so like, it's falling from the sky.

I'm like, oh, I gotta get it on Instagram.

You guys like.

Okay, okay.

No, you're right.

It's beautiful.

Just.

Just don't be here in March.

I definitely saw the best part where it was nice and fluffy and first snow magic.

I was like, oh, this is.

Yeah, it was.

This one.

It's cute.

Yes.

It was like that.

Gilmore Girls like magic.

First snow.

Yes.

Yep.

That was one of my favorite moments of the weekend.

So, again, thank you so much for joining us in Rochester.

Yeah, it was a lot of work having tethered.

Yeah, we loved it.

It's fantastic.

Instantly, we're like, we're showing this.

That's it.

That's it.

100%.

Put it in Aw, thank you.

That means a lot.

Can't recommend it enough.

Really looking forward to seeing.

Stay.

Really looking forward to seeing Jason Statham stole my bike.

Looking forward to just everything.

Meredith Berg is going to be amazing.

Thank you for joining us.

We've been the Anomaly Presents podcast.

We are part of the Anomaly Film Festival.

It's happening this November 11th through 15th in beautiful Rochester, New York.

The Dryden Theater, the Little Theater.

I can't guarantee snow, but we'll do our best.

If you're looking for us, we're Anomaly Film Fest on all the social medias.

Anomalyfilmfest.com that's all for us this week.

Thank you again to Meredith and thank you for listening.

We'll catch you again soon.

Take care.

Bye.

Thank you.

Bye.

This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore podcast Network Work.

Wick will be back.