Join Pastor Dave Schultz as he welcomes for intense discussion, Ben Bennett, a co-author with Josh McDowell of the new book “Free to Thrive”. The book carefully uncovers the hurts, the struggles, and “unwanted behaviors” of both co-authors and how they came to receive the grace and mercy of God in those times of difficulty. Truly a book for it’s time in the secular, materialistic, and sensual culture of today. The book is about “heart transformation”, the kind Jesus wants in all of us. Do join Ben in this discussion.

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Ministries. Welcome to engaging truth, the manifestation of God's word and the lives of people around us. Join us each week. As we explore the impact of his message of spiritual renewal from the lesson of forgiveness forged in the crucible of divorce, to the message of salvation, learn by an executioner from a condemned killer to the gift of freedom found in the rescue of victims of human trafficking. This is God's truth in action.

Welcome to engaging truth. This is Dave Schultz, your host on engaging truth. And I've got a special guest who I've never met before, but I have been reading something both he that's Ben Bennett and Josh McDowell have put together in a book called free to thrive. So welcome Ben.

Hey Dave, thanks so much for having me on the show. It's great to be with you. Um,

This is an exciting thing. And for you guys in particular, because this book is Chi of good information and the reason I was attracted to it was because of this, this, the biblical content of it. And that is so precious to me as an old pastor, you know, but let me just begin by asking you Ben, to tell us a little bit about, um, who Ben it is, and a little bit about your bio and the, the second thing I'll ask then, or if you would include it is how you and Josh forever got together.

absolutely love that question. Well, um, I am, uh, a 32 year old single guy living in Dallas, Texas, and, um, I, I, you know, love music used to play in punk bands, you know, whatnot. And, um, that, that was yeah, a big part of, of my story and never got into drugs and alcohol, but I got into rock and roll and, uh, that's something that I definitely love. But growing up, I met Jesus at a, the real young age and had a vibrant encounter with him, really understood the gospel early on. Uh, I understood that God loved me, that I did wrong things that Jesus lived the perfect life I could never live, died and rose again. And so I'd a reconciled relationship with God. Uh, but growing up was honestly really, really hard. I grew up in a, a, a family where I often feel, felt like I, I didn't fit in.

Uh, my dad was often disengaged and really angry. Um, we talked about Jesus, but, um, I, I really struggled growing up. I was hurting. I was lonely. I developed mental health issues. Suicidal thoughts got addicted to pornography, was bullied by my friends. And so I felt like a loner for much of my life, but God was there. And, um, I, I talk to him every day. I, I had like this deep friendship with him, uh, but my spiritual life was having little impact on my relationships on my mental health. I didn't understand how the scriptures, um, and didn't learn how, how the scriptures really impacted all these things and how Jesus could really set me free in those areas. And, and eventually, um, through mentors and friends and therapy and studying brain science and really deep doing a deeper dive in, in the scriptures. I, I found lasting freedom from many of these scenes in healing and, um, started working for a campus ministry for six years, doing a lot with HR, working with leaders at risk.

Uh, so many people were struggling, um, with porn addiction, with mental health stuff. And that ministry just really took look off. There was a need to, to help, um, bring these solutions to help people heal and be free. And, um, people were getting set free, left, and right by Jesus and these proven principles. And exactly, I knew Josh was speaking on some of these topics as well and had been doing it for decades. And, uh, God really just called me to go full time into speaking, to writing, to helping people meet Jesus heal from their hurts and struggles and be set free to thrive. So called him up one day and we started chatting and he said, let's go move to Dallas. So I did. And

So that's how the book got started then too, correct?

Absolutely. Uh, we had been working together for about a year and then just started dreaming and scheming and praying about how can we, how might God use our stories in the themes we have found all around the world to, to help people and get these proven principles. So that's how we started writing on the book. You mentioned

It, but expand upon it just a little bit, uh, how your personal experiences, um, helped you in your journey toward this book?

Yes. Well, I, I, I struggled for decades. It, it, it was about until the age of 23, um, that I was struggling with all these mental health things and porn addiction and a food addiction and just unresolved hurt and loneliness. And I wasn't hearing about it in the campus ministry. I was part of, I wasn't hearing the solutions. I wasn't hearing about it in, in church. And, and so I got, um, I was sick and tired of, of struggling and, um, struggling to go on and, and burning out. And, uh, I needed to figure this out. And so I, I started meeting weekly with a, a pastor who was also a trained counselor, and he just really opened my eyes to, um, where I needed healing in my soul, why I was doing the, uh, unhealthy things I was doing, why I was that, that ultimately these things were about survival and about coping.

And they, they ultimately weren't random. They were signals that needed to be answered of these deeper problems in my life. So I got involved in several different recovery groups and had people start supporting me every single day and speak life into me. And, and I think about all the one another in scripture, pray for one another, confess your sins to one another, started living a life without secrets, talking about my emotions. And I realized I'd been deeply hurt in relationships. And I started to be deeply healed in relationships. And so that was early on in my young adult years.

I'm sure that a lot of this Ben is going on kind of very secretly and very quietly within the church. Are there some stats you can give us that will help us to understand that?

Yeah, there's, there's a lot of stats. Um, couple we write about in our new book, uh, 90% of teens say anxiety and depression are major issues amongst their peers. Suicide is the second leading cause of death among teenagers and college age students. Uh, last month in the past month, 90% of men in 60% of women sought out pornography. And then one is that is just, just heartbreaking, is that well, I mean, all of those are heartbreaking, but this is where we really struggle is that only 30% of pastors say they feel very equipped to help to deal with their mental and emotional struggles. So, so many people are struggling in our churches outside of the churches. And, um, there's just really a lack of holistic solutions about how we can, uh, out there, um, to, to equip people to, to heal from these issues.

Well, the church has experienced some of this for a long time. So what do Ravi Zacharias, uh, Carl Lys and Josh Dugger have in common within this area that you've just talked about?

Yeah, so I, I, I think with them, um, you know, I don't wanna comment specifically on their stories, but I think what those stories, um, shine a light on is that we've got this vast issue of, of brokenness in the church, um, and outside of the church. And as one who's worked with leaders in, in crisis, um, there's several things we, we see, um, that kind of to this, uh, one is this in, uh, this life of secrets and isolation. So whether that's these relationships that start to develop or this, this sin, or, um, feeling like I can't talk about, I, I have to have it altogether. I can't talk about what's really going on. What I'm really struggling with. Another thing is internal and external isolation feeling like I've gotta do this. The world depends on me. People are counting on me, um, or sorry, internal external pressure.

And the other thing is what we talk about in the book that all of us have these seven God-given longings that are meant to be fulfilled. These longings of the heart, acceptance, affirmation, feelings, safety, and this side of Eden, those go unmet. And if we don't learn healthy ways to cope with our stress and our pain and even our hurt from the past, um, that's what, where some of these unhealthy behaviors start, you know, to creep in and, um, you know, obviously leaders fall, um, or Le some, some leaders fall, others choose to, uh, engage in predatory behavior that is, um, horrific and, and devastating. And there's a wide spectrum of that. But, you know, even inside the church, we're all dealing with some kind of brokenness, um, and we need God's healing. We need wholeness that, that Jesus wants to offer us. What would

You say? Um, Ben would be the core message. You would like the readers of this book and this conversation, um, to understand

One is that we need to give more time to questioning our struggles, our habitual sin, the things that we're so ashamed of, that we're, we're hiding give more time to questioning it rather than just condemning it because those issues aren't random, they're symptoms of a deeper problem of deeper hurts of deeper unmet longings of, of deeper desires that God has wired us to have fulfilled. And when they're not going fulfilled, we will seek out unhealthy behaviors, unhealthy at attempts to find them resolved. I, we, we see this all throughout the Bible, but one example is, um, I think of job in job three, uh, he was so depressed after he lost his health, his wealth, his family, that he said, why did my mother not give, why did my mother, or, or why did I not die? When my mother gave birth to me, he was so depressed.

He wished he had never been born. And that wasn't random, that was out of this unmet, longing out of this grief out of all this pain he was struggling with. That was a symptom of this deeper longing and hurt and, and, and need that, that God deeply cared about and wanted to heal. So rather than saying, oh, you just gotta get rid of the depression, get rid of the porn addiction, get rid of the anxiety. Let's question these things. Let's see what they're about because behind them is, is something that, that God wants to bring resolution to in our lives.

Ben, why do you say that unhealthy behavioral patterns are not the problem, but the solution?

Well, I, I think that ultimately, you know, these, these behaviors can be problematic, but they're not the they're ultimately not the problem. They're an attempt at a solution. We're attempting to find something in them. Think about my own life for years. Um, I kept going to pornography, um, and I thought, I thought, okay, it's just that I can't get it together. I don't love Jesus enough. I'm stuck in sin and it was sin. But, um, it was, I was trying to resolve something in my life. I was trying to find a solution. And as I got into my healing journey, I realized, oh my gosh, every time I feel rejected, rather accepted pornography is my temporary solution to feel love to get this hit of dopamine, to feel some kind of escape. Um, but God had something better for me. And that was real acceptance through him and through other people. And so I found in my healing journey, I knew a new solution. One that was better. One that God designed me to have, that was more satisfying and I could find it through him and other people.

You used the word dopamine and I, and I'm very curious as to how that fits into the picture of addiction and the solution of it. Yeah,

so, so a lot of, um, the unhealthy coping behaviors that, that we can go to, uh, will actually release dopamine in our brain. And pornography is, is one of the strongest ones. When we watch pornography, it releases more dopamine than having sex with another human being. And so no wonder it is so addictive, it's accessible. Uh, you can watch it anonymously. It's, it's always there. It takes no effort. Um, and it releases a super flow of dopamine in our brain, and it can quickly rewire the brain, uh, leading to an addiction. And many people are calling it the new drug, the new cocaine it's in everybody's pocket. You can access it at any time. But what is often not talked about is how it leads to frontal lobe, atrophy, the withering away of your higher reasoning and judgment portion of the brain. So if you go to pornography, you start to give up your brain and it leads to all kinds of problems in our lives.

Let me just pause for just a moment to give a little bit of, of, uh, review to what we do at engaging truth. Um, I'm glad you, this evening turned to engaging truth programming. Let me tell you a little bit about what we are evangelical. Life ministries is a group of volunteers in the Houston area who not only plan each one of these broadcasts, but they also make sure that they are completed. Each broadcast is Christ centered from the word of God. In particular, you can help us with his programming. First of all, just pray for us at engaging truth. Secondly, what you can do is go to the website, Elm houston.org, and press the button to engage you as to how you can support this, this programming nationwide. Also, you can also support physically by going to E L M P O box file Cypress, Texas. And you can write a checkout for us there as well. Remember, every gift is received. Every gift is appreciated. Every gift is recognized. My guess for this day is

Yeah, Dave, the whole apologetic model is that biblical model that's informed by psychology and neuroscience that explores God's thriving design for our lives. It also gets into why we struggle, why we hurt, why we can develop unhealthy behaviors and ultimately how we can experience God's wholeness and healing and freedom here. And now. So we developed this because we wanted to see, um, these proven principles that both Josh and I struggled to find for decades, but ultimately found, uh, that were there in the Bible all along. And God used those to bring healing from, um, hurt and trauma and abuse in our lives. He, he used them to help, um, our mental health be boosted and to set us free from addictions and habitual sin.

You know, it's interesting. And for second Corinthians pulse is if any man be in Christ, he's new creation, uh, one of the things that you said in the book, and I thought for the so, so delightful was that, um, we don't need to go back and be reborn. We just need to grow up. And I think that's classic because really we have what we need before us to be able to heal the, the wounds of our heart and our mind. Tell me a little bit about, uh, Neo plasticity and, and how all that functions within our lifestyle.

Yeah. Neuroplasticity was discovered in the past few decades among neuroscientists and essentially it's the fact that our brains are multiple and changeable. So growing up in this world, our brains are always changing with thoughts with, with people, with, with abuse, with hurt, with positive experiences, with negative experiences, and that, um, molds us into how we think, how we behave, uh, and on this side of Eden. Um, and, and with the simple nature we're born with that can really lead us to be conformed to the pattern of this world. And as we continue down those pathways, we develop fixed neurological pathways in our brain. So no longer do we just have a simple choice to stop something. We have a hard wired brain problem to deal with, but the beauty of Roman's 12 too, is that we can be transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Exactly. And the Bible talks so much about our minds, our brains, our thoughts. So it's there it's been there all along the way. We think dictates our behaviors in what we do. So there's a huge emphasis on what we're supposed to put our mind and our mental energy toward. And the beauty is as the holy spirit gives us new desires and we focus our thoughts on, um, Christ and who we are in, uh, all the biblical instructions for our thriving life. Our brains begin to change old patterns, old, unhealthy behaviors, go away, old, uh, negative thinking. That's not true, or with the gospel goes away. As we start to believe who God is, who we are in Christ, how much we're loved and this thriving, healthy, uh, life that we're designed to live of relationships with being known and loved by others.

I'm sure there are people who are asking the question of themselves. I wish Josh or I wish Ben would tell us a little about, um, what their book reveals about how to overcome the things that they're experiencing. Can you share that a little bit more?

Absolutely. One that I would point to is that a problem identified is a problem has solved. And my experience in Josh's experience all around the world with, with Christians. Um, and non-Christians is that we tend to think that my behavior is ultimately the problem. Oh, I just gotta get rid of this negative thinking. I have to get rid of this anger, the shame, this sexual sin, this unhealthy thought life, but behind those things are legit longings, legitimate desires. These seven longings that we explore in the book exactly. Um, that God wants to fulfill. And he wired us to have them fulfilled. So once we look at our problems and then start asking, what's the longing behind this, what's the desire behind this? What does God want to fulfill and set me free from and how, how in relationship with him and others. That's one of the first greatest steps we can take to overcoming some of these problems. So that would be one, one of the, uh, answers there. And if we have more time, I can get into more.

Give me an example of someone, uh, Ben, that you've dealt with, that you've seen walk through this, and you've helped them with the word to become restored and become alive. Again,

Couple years ago, I was working with a, uh, guy that I was mentoring. And when we started meeting together, he was angry. He was depressed. He would go into these kind of fits of rage. He was looking at pornography, he was lonely. He, he felt like he didn't fit in anywhere, lots and lots of shame. Yet. He was reading this Bible every day. He was fasting. He was involved in a campus ministry. Why wasn't he being trans formed by the holy spirit? Well, he was doing a lot of good things. All those things are good things of spiritual disciplines, but he didn't know that his struggles weren't random, that God wanted to heal him of deeper things. So as we started getting into his story, sure enough, we found out that every time he started to get really angry and turn , uh, inward on himself and say, I'm just a misfit. I'll never fit in. There's an experience of rejection, failing a test, uh, seeing his ex-girlfriend, um, someone arguing with him. And that happened a lot in childhood growing up. So what it did was reinforce, reinforced those lies. But as he got around a group of people who loved him, showed Jesus to him, spoke life into him, he became aware of those patterns and started to renew his mind by the power of the holy spirit. He started to find acceptance and overcome those unhealthy thoughts and behaviors and find real freedom in Christ.

Ooh, how wonderful that is. And for all of us who are just steeped in scripture, we know and have the confidence that it has the word to bring the true healing Christ, true healing. Um, Ben, you wrote free to thrive. You and Josh did tell the listening audience we're in the world that can find this, or how can, uh, get their copy of this? Because I, I think not only people, but churches ought to have copies of this available as well.

That is our desire and our desires that it would serve and really help people and help people experience the wholeness that Christ brings. Uh, you can get it anywhere. Books are sold, can go down to Barnes and noble in your area. Uh, local Christian bookstores, um, an easy place to go is free to thrive. book.com. It has all the links on there. So all your different online, uh, favorite outlets,

I wanna say, thank you very much for this time. We can spend two more hours doing this and I just thank God that he has called you through the power of his word and the working of the holy spirit to touch lives with a message of Jesus. Thank you and goodnight. And come back to us again on engaging truths. Goodnight,

Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at this time to help support our ministry, contact Eva angelical life ministries, post office box 5 68, Cypress, Texas 77, 410. Or visit our website@elmhouston.org, or find us on Facebook evangelical life ministries. Thank you.