Griffin James speaks with theatre-maker and law student, Aysia Slade about her original play STATIC, creating art without causing harm to the artist, her writing process, Black theater and more. Aysia is a multi-talented artist who has such a thoughtful and nuanced approach to creating new work in theater. Enjoy this episode!

BIO:

Aysia Slade is a lover of stories and the art of theater making. She is a 2021 graduate of North Carolina State University where she majored in psychology with minors in philosophy, theater and political science. While at her alma mater she participated in over a dozen shows on and off stage, and founded the Black Artist Coalition which created a space for fellowship and advocacy for black artists in every discipline. She is currently attending Duke University School of Law. Her most recent project Static won the Creative Artist Award for playwriting at NC State.

LINKS:

Static: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CO8s3Gtnj4

Listen to Aysia on ASBX: Guess What Happened to Me Last Night (ASBX Shorts episode 2)

for colored girls who have considered suicide / when the rainbow is enuf  by Ntozake Shange

LISTEN TO ASBX AUDIO DRAMAS:

Master Builder

The New Colossus

Declaration of Love audio anthology

ASBX Shorts

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This is Artist Soapbox.

Through interviews and original scripted audio fiction.

We deliver stories that speak to your hearts and your minds.

Hello, Artist Soapbox.

My name is Griffin James, and in today's episode, I had the absolute

pleasure to talk with Aysia Slade.

Aysia is a lover of stories and the art of theater making.

She is a 2021 graduate of North Carolina State University, where she majored in

psychology with minors in philosophy, theater, and political science.

While at her Alma mater, she participated in over a dozen shows on

and off stage and founded the Black Artist Coalition, which created a

space for fellowship and advocacy for black artists in every discipline.

She is currently attending duke university school of law.

Her most recent project STATIC won the creative artist award for

playwriting at NC state together.

We talked about her play STATIC, creating art without causing

harm to the artist, her writing process, black theater and more.

Aysia is a multi-talented artist who.

Such a thoughtful and nuanced approach to creating new work in theater.

I hope you all enjoy today's offering as much as I had the pleasure of creating it.

And as always thank you for your time, whether you are at home at work or in

your car, whether you are a longtime listener or here for the first time.

Thank you.

And welcome to Artist Soapbox.

Hello, Artist Soapbox.

My name is not Tamara.

It is Griffin, but welcome to the Artist Soapbox podcast.

Today.

I am talking with actress, singer, dancer, playwright,

and future lawyer, Aysia Slade.

Aysia, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Thank you so much for having me.

Just as a quick introduction.

Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Um, yeah.

So you spoke a little bit about it in your intro, but I've been doing

theater pretty much my entire life.

In undergrad.

I really used that as a time to explore what theater meant to me and how I wanted

to be a part of my life going forward.

I unfortunately graduated right during the pandemic.

Um, as many people know that kind of really threw arts into a world.

So right now I'm in law school and trying to, you know, situate myself, situate

what I wanna do in my future and kind of find out what that looks like for me.

Do you have pieces of what that might look like?

Or, and it's totally okay if you, if it's still like a vague idea,

because I know for me, it kind of is

Yeah.

It's definitely still quite vague.

I've actually found that playwriting, which I'm glad that we get to talk about

today has been one of the best ways for me to keep my love of theater alive.

Because unlike shows there's no rehearsal schedule.

So if I have a random idea at 3:00 AM for a play, I can work on it at 3:00 AM.

And I've just been, trying to write as much as possible while also maintaining

my classwork and surprisingly law school has been full of inspiration,

which not something you would think, but there's a lot of things.

In my life and the things that I'm passionate about in the law

that I kind of find, have inspired me to write and inspired me to

work those things into my art.

So I've kind of been, trying to find a balance between pursuing my

passion and also just having a career, which I find fulfilling on the other

hand.

Just because.

I love bragging about you.

Can you, can you tell our dear listeners not only where you attend law

school, but what your LSAT score was?

yeah, I can.

So I go to duke university.

I got a 1 75 on my LSAT.

Yeah.

I have to say that the LSAT has not been the predictor

for law school success though.

Law school has been kicking my butt pretty aggressively, but it's

been.

Well, I I'm glad that has been fun despite the butt kicking . Yeah, but

yeah, in addition to being a, a future lawyer and a current law student and

a playwright and a theater maker, you have a strong tenure and a strong

history of theater under your belt.

And I'm specifically thinking.

How you were the 20, 20 creative artist winner for playwriting and see state

university for your original play STATIC.

Can you tell us a little bit more about your play?

Yeah, so STATIC for me was a really personal story.

I kind of wanted to tell a really intimate story of mental health and in the backdrop

that wasn't too overwhelmingly dark.

If that makes sense.

I really like the balance of joy and sadness.

And so I wanted static to kind of capture the highs of low and

lows of what friendship can be, what lifelong friendship can be.

The show has three main characters who have been friends

for the whole entire lives.

They're now freshman in college, which is a incredibly difficult time of change.

Time of trying to find out who you wanna be.

And I thought that that was just a really good setting to explore those

themes in a way that felt really true.

And I wanted it to, especially knowing what I was writing it for since I

was writing with the creative artist award in mind, and with like students

and other college students in mind, I wanted it to feel true to us and what

we were going through at the time.

And so I really wanted to basically use these three characters and

their friendship as a way to explore the themes that a lot of

people are going through at that

time.

And I just wanna say as a, as a person who experienced

it, In the college age, I felt like you did a really tremendous and

beautiful job at capturing those themes and those intimate friendships.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And I want to applaud you for that.

Cuz I have read multiple plays that try to tackle mental illness and I, I just

leave feeling more angry at the play.

Yeah.

And I, it feel, it just, it just feels more stressful and upsetting than it

does cathartic mm-hmm so, so STATIC was such a relief for me to experience.

Yeah, I really that's something that I

really wanted to come across.

I really wanted the actors to not be put into extremely stressful

situations to bring the art to life.

And I didn't wanna put a lot of stress on the audience either because

I think these topics are so heavy.

It's very easy to make a play that relies on shock factor and

grief and kind of abuses those emotions for the audience's benefit.

and I really think that the moments speak for themself and, and not much has to be

done for people to feel the emotions that you want them to feel and to know where

you want them to go, because they're, they are so pertinent to everyone's life's.

In addition to winning the creative artist contest at NC

state, it was produced as a production with NC state university theater.

Can I ask how involved were you with the rehearsal process as it was going up?

Yeah, I, I went to a couple of rehearsals, but honestly wanted

to step back a little bit because.

The writing of STATIC was so personal to me.

Like these characters were based on people.

I knew from high school on things that I experienced, things that

my friends have experienced.

And so I knew that if I was in there in the theater every day, I would

get a little bit annoying probably.

And I also wanted to see what my work could do on its own when I wasn't

there, like standing guard over.

Because I had watched it so carefully during the writing process and

because I had been handling it so carefully for the four years while

I was working on it, I wanted to give it a chance to stand on its.

I think that's a good approach.

Yeah.

Um, when my first play got staged reading, I was at every rehearsal and

looking back, I'm just like, huh?

I could have done a lot less

yeah.

I still think I could have done more.

I'm not sure if it was the right choice or not.

I just, it was what felt right at the moment.

And I think that the play ended up being really beautiful.

Without me being super involved, but I was there to answer questions

whenever they needed me to, but I, I did wanna kind of let them work

with it on their own a little bit.

And like

you said, it was what you felt was best in the moment.

And I think as we are in those current moments, it's best to

just honor what we are feeling.

and if we learn later that we wanna try it a different way,

then we know for next time.

But yeah, in that moment, I think it was very wise.

Just honor what you were feeling and how it would help the play develop.

Yeah, definitely.

I think that's honestly, one of the things I love the most about playwriting

as opposed to other forms of writing.

like, I don't think STATIC is ever gonna be full, like fully finished where I'm

like, I'm not gonna make any changes.

I'm not gonna do anything else to it.

Like if I get another staging of STATIC, I already know the

things that I wanna change.

I already, I did edits of the script after opening night for the production.

Like I, I like the idea.

It's one of the things I love about theater in general is that

the art is always living and breathing and it's always changing.

So you never have to like step away from it and be like,

okay, like I'm wipe my hands.

I'm done.

Cuz even once you're done, there's someone else who's there for the next step who

will breathe new life into it, you know?

So it's.

It's like, it's always evolving, always changing, even if I did say

like, okay, I'm done editing it.

I'm not looking at it anymore.

There's someone else there who will look at it and who, even if they're

not changing the language will bring something different and something new.

Yes.

I loved hearing you say that.

Cuz a lot of it resonated with me.

I was also making revisions during shows.

I didn't give them to the actors.

I'm not that kind of person but um, I, yeah,

I, Mia had to tell me like, Hey.

The show is like, very soon you cannot bring any more edits.

And I was like, no, that's fair.

That's really

fair.

Yeah.

I was definitely making those edits as well.

And after the show, I continued to make more edits mm-hmm and

yeah, and I feel like that's something a lot of playwrights.

Deal with, is the idea that it's not where you want it to be yet, or

always finding something to change.

Mm-hmm and I think about lovesick by John Cari, who has had, I don't know,

16 additions that number's made up.

Don't fact check . But like it's premiered on Broadway and he's still revising it.

Yep.

And then, you know, they'll have revivals of shows that are totally different and

mm-hmm, , the script has changed and I,

yeah, I, I really love the fact that, you know, you never

really, the show is never really over.

Yes.

It's a new life every time.

For the rehearsals you did sit in on, what was it like to hear that out loud?

And did it like change how you saw the work or the trajectory

you wanted to take at all?

Yeah, I think it definitely did.

I think, especially with the type of play that STATIC was where I'm trying

to present this lifelong friendship.

I think the language that you use when you're close to

someone is really important.

and that you talk with lifelong friends differently than you would

talk with someone that you just met.

And so making sure that it was dialogue that basically

rolled off the actor's tongues.

And I think being an actor myself, definitely informed how I wanted to

do this, but it was important to me that like none of my actors had a line

where they were like, I really don't know how I'm supposed to say this.

This is not something that my character would say, this feels so unnatural.

I wanted it to flow because I think that flow was so important for establishing

this relationship in a way that is not just telling the audience that, oh,

they're lifelong friends, but showing it through their language and how easy it

is for them to converse with each other.

Part of that is the actors and physicality, but a large part of

that is the text itself, giving them the room to have that closeness

and to have that chemistry.

And so when I was watching life performances and there were lines that

if I heard like one or two readings and that one line felt awkward every time

I was like, okay, the problem is me.

mm-hmm and the problem is the text.

Not just like, oh, that was an awkward reading.

No, the problem is me.

I need to fix this line in particular.

To make sure that my actors can actually work with.

And also, I remember one specific moment in the rehearsal process, cuz there

are a few curse words in my show and I was listening to the rehearsals and I

was like, wow, they've set the F word like 17 times in the last six minutes.

And it seemed natural when I was the F word as in the four letter one.

But they were cursing a lot and I realized that's not natural and it

felt natural while I was writing it, but it really stood out.

And so I think there are some things that you cannot tell from paper alone.

You need to hear to see if it'll flow and to see if it flows in the wrong way.

I think it's really important.

So that was really, really helpful.

To hear things out loud, leading up to the contest deadline.

Did you have any informal readings of your own along the way?

Honestly, before I submitted STATIC for the deadline, I honestly only

had two other people, maybe three other people read it prior to submitting it.

I.

Very nervous about, and I think this is one of the things that I think I'm gonna

try and do better next time, but I was very nervous about having people handle

such what was essentially my artistic baby and my child and hearing their feedback.

But I think that I will need to be braver with that going forward.

But prior to the submission, it was really just trying to check for that flow that I

told you about and having, you know, maybe me and one friend or me and a partner

reading scenes out loud, just to see if we can back and forth feeling going,

but never like a true reading, which I think I, I probably should have done.

Because once I got to do them as part of the creative artist contest,

it was really, really helpful.

No, that

makes com complete sense.

I know for myself, I, I didn't really show it to anyone it being my play.

Yeah.

I didn't show it to anyone.

I didn't have anyone read it until I was told that I was getting a staged reading.

Because I'm like, oh, oh no, no, no, no, not ready.

What do you mean

? Yep.

Yeah.

And it's like, okay.

I gotta actually I actually gotta do

the work now.

yeah.

But yeah, no, I totally understand though, what you were saying about

it being your artistic baby, because for me as well, it was my first play.

It was.

It was based on family history.

So it's a, it's a very personal piece for me.

And I think that's part of why I was lingering in the rehearsal so often.

Yeah.

I just felt so protective of it and I, and yeah, it's a very brave thing

just to write a play at all, but I think it's an even more brave thing

just to share that with the world.

Yeah, I definitely agree.

I remember sitting in opening night actually and being like, oh my God, like

all these people are here, basically getting the inside of my like high school

diary and they're gonna think it's awful and cringy and they're all gonna hate it.

And it's too close to home and just having all that anxiety.

That's why I only went to see opening night and closing night because

I just, it was too much for me.

And I loved it and I'm gonna keep writing place, but it was very painful because I

think writing can be very, very personal.

And so it's a lot to take in sometimes.

What was your process like as you were first developing your script?

Do you self-imposed deadlines at all?

Or do you have any structures in place to help you just get through

the first script and revisions?

Yeah.

So usually I'll start with an outline.

Once I have that first spark of an idea, I'll start trying to make an outline.

I.

But the idea for STATIC really was STATIC was like seven different

plays before it became what it is.

I changed who the main character was several times

I changed their relationship.

The plot, the storyline, all I knew was I had a few specific scenes that were

sparks in my head that I knew I wanted to.

and I had specific characters that I wanted to see on stage.

And so weaving them together is kind of what I used the outlining process for to

decide like which story actually allows me to best bring out the themes that

sparked the idea and, and best allows me to put these, put these characters on

show in a way that feels honest and true.

So once I get the outline done, then it's really up to God TBH

I , it's really outta my hands.

And it's a very slow process.

I've never been blessed enough to be able to write full time where I'm

not doing something else during the day and writing when I have time.

And I was quite literally writing static for four years,

which it is barely 50 pages.

So that says something, but I, once I had that first spark, I wasn't

very disciplined about like getting stuff on the page until it got

down to when it was time to submit.

And I was like, okay, if I'm gonna write this, like it's

now or never, I need to do it.

And I need to like stop dilly ding about.

I think one of the things I struggle with is once I have the outline and I

write my favorite scenes, it's harder for me to fill in those details.

And I think that's where I was dragging my feet a little bit, but once it came down

to it, it was kind of like, okay, I have to fill in these holes and I have to add

some gravitas to it and add some weight to the play so that it's not just these very

striking moments and nothing in between.

I remember in a couple of the first readings actually, after I submitted

it, one of the main things I got it back as feedback was, there

are a lot of really good moments, but we don't know what's going on.

And I was like, that's, that's really fair.

And that is my fault because I don't like telling you what's going on

and I need to get better at that.

So I just kind of.

Do an outline, hit my favorite things and then fill in the blanks.

I'm probably gonna try and do better at that.

And actually going in like a chronological order.

That's a lie because in the plays I'm writing right now, I still have

only written my favorite scenes, but yeah, that's, that's my process.

No deadlines.

Just vibes, I

guess.

I mean, if I can just say, I feel like the more writers I talk to, the more I realize

very few of us write chronologically.

Yeah.

And I don't think it's necessarily.

Bad thing.

I think just writing any scene at all is better.

Cuz if writing chronologically is gonna just stump you and you

don't get any writing done, cuz you don't want know what happens next.

Mm-hmm I feel like that's a little bit worse than just writing out of

sequence and patching it together later.

Yeah, that's probably true.

I think I just need to get.

More proactive about patching it together and instead of dragging my feet on it.

Um, but yeah, I definitely do not write in a chronological order.

I write in order of inspiration is most accurate.

I

definitely feel you with.

The idea of that deadline, really just expediting the, the entire process.

Mm-hmm yeah.

I think about Mike Wiley, who, who once said the quickest way to get

work done is to book it . Yeah.

Cause like, I, I know I can set deadlines for myself.

and then I can ignore them.

Mm-hmm who the hell am I?

like, I, I know I won't punish myself.

Are you?

No.

Yeah, the moment it's something external, it just clicks something

different in my brain and I'm just like, oh, I gotta get into them.

I need it.

I actually have to get this done now.

Yeah.

Yeah, it definitely, definitely kicked me into gear a little bit.

And it was also like my junior year.

So I, I wasn't less stressed, but I was more focused and I felt

more prepared as a theater artist.

Once it got closer to the deadline to actually take on the work that

I wanted to do, because I was more sure of myself as a writer and

what I wanted the show to be about.

You may have already touched on this a bit, but is there

anything you wish you knew before or anything you learned along the way that

you wanna share with anyone who might be interested in writing their first play?

Uh, yeah, I would say you really just gotta do it.

because whatever you write first, you're probably gonna hate anyway.

That's just, or at least let me not push my insecurities on other people, but if

you do write something and you do hate it, you have the opportunity to revise.

You have the opportunity to go back.

But getting that first step done and putting pen to paper and actually

taking steps towards completing it is the hardest step and the most

important step in the process.

And then once it's complete, you can go back, you can revise, you

can have your friends, look at it, give their advice, have them talk

to you about what they need, but all of those steps are a lot easier.

Once you have actually completed what you're working on.

So I think just kind of allowing yourself to be scared at first that

you're gonna write something that you don't like, but not allowing

that fear to stop you from writing.

Yeah.

I think that's the advice, not a single writer wants to hear,

but they need to hear is that they just need to write . Yeah.

Yeah.

It's as simple and as hard as that

mm-hmm, it really is.

I feel like once you have that spark of an idea, Or inspiration.

You can't let it go.

Or at least I've never found a writer.

Who's able to have an idea and just let it go.

So either you're gonna write the play or you're gonna go in saying,

thinking about how you wish you had written the play mm-hmm . So

you might as well write the play.

Another fun fact about you is that you have a degree in psychology.

So with your background in psychology, I'm wondering if you did any specific research

to help shape the world of static.

Yeah.

So STATIC for me was really centered around mental health because I wanted

a way to combine psychology and the importance of mental health with my love

of theater, cuz I thought that would be a really good avenue to explore that.

And so I was a, a research assistant with the Black Health Lab on NC

state's campus for a semester.

And there we just kind of learned.

The effects of living in a racialized society and how that can

affect the mental health of young Black people and Black juveniles.

and being a Black juvenile and being a young Black person who had experienced

mental health problems firsthand, I think combining that greater social

awareness with my own personal experiences kind of brought static to life.

You know, I, I think STATIC was my first play.

It was really, really personal and more informed by my own personal experiences

and the people that I've known.

And the ways that I've seen mental health issues and depression present itself in

a variety of ways throughout my life.

The character of Jay who is the main character in the show

deals with depression.

And in a way that I think is very unique where he's a very

bright, happy going person.

And I had a friend in high school who was just like that and super

outgoing, super talkative all the time.

And one day they just didn't come to class were like, A couple of weeks.

And then they came back and said that they were hospitalized for suicidal ideations.

And I remember everyone being so shocked because this is the happy go lucky person.

This is the person who's not supposed to feel sadness and not

supposed to have all these burdens.

And so it was really important for me, that STATIC was informed by these

real people and informed by these real stories, which impacted me.

But also aware of different societal issues and different impacts that I

had studied and researched in my lab.

Um, so it was really a combination of those that kind

of brought static to where it is.

I think what I'm curious about is, as you were

researching and writing, did you do, like, was it simultaneous process

or did you do one before the other.

For me, it was kind of, I went in with the idea of

what I wanted static to look like.

And when there were moments that my personal experience failed me, because I

wasn't writing about, you know, a Black young woman experiencing depression.

I was writing about a Black young man.

And so then I would fall back on, I, I took time to notice where my

personal experiences did not reach.

and where, what I've experienced was not accurate or would not be able to

accurately express that point of view.

And that's when I would fall back on my research really as a way to fill in those

gaps in my own personal understanding.

Yeah.

So it was kind of a simultaneous or really more of like an in and out

process between writing and having a flow and going what I know, and then

taking a step back and being like, okay, is this an accurate representation?

Of what someone in this position would feel right now.

And I'm actually writing a play right now, which is about criminal, the

criminal justice system, which I'm handling in a completely different way,

because there's so much research that has to be done with it's a bit more

technical or static was so personal.

And so I think for a play like the one I have in mind, I want to do all

the groundwork first and then build the story from there because there is

so much technicality underlying it.

Part of why I was asking that was, um, admittedly selfish because,

um, I, I have an idea for a play and I, I was like, I gotta do my research, but

I find, I just keep getting stuck in research and I'm not actually writing,

but I'll research and call that writing even though it's not the same thing.

Yeah.

I definitely feel that right now.

I think for me, I always get pulled back to writing because writing is

what I'm actually like excited about.

And so whenever I'm trying to, and I just kind of gravitate towards

the part that excites me the most.

So I think I have the opposite problem where I know I need to

do more research, but I want to like, just jump in and write.

But I honestly don't think that doing too much research could

possibly be a bad thing because.

When you're writing about like other people's lived experiences, I think

accuracy is so important or else the work can be really harmful.

So I think, I think as long as you write, eventually no harm in research.

Yeah.

But one thing I, I am curious about is given the contents of your play, I'm

curious what measures you took to care for yourself as you were writing it.

So it was really important to me and I think this was informed

by the fact that I was an actor first, before I decided to try playwriting

and get into that, that STATIC handled these really heavy topics in a way that

was thoughtful towards the actors and thoughtful towards myself about the amount

of grief that I was putting myself into while I was writing and what I was asking

of my actors while they were performing.

So for me, after writing, you know, heavy scenes, I honestly found it

very cathartic the same way as writing in a journal, or just getting the

thoughts that I've had before or thoughts that I've heard before, or the

inspiration out of me and onto the page.

Was really a, the, a therapeutic process for myself.

Just, it allowed me to make use of those negative emotions in a way that could help

other people or entertain other people.

Hopefully.

So when I was writing those scenes, it was really important to me that I was doing

it with the actors in mind and keeping in mind what I was asking them to do.

While I want to reach the audience, and while I want them to understand the

themes that I'm trying to portray and to feel the emotions that I want them

to feel, I am a theater maker first and it's important to me that audiences

are not being reached at the expense of my actors or at the expense of myself.

And I think that one of the main ways that I did that and static was just

trying to avoid grossly visceral scenes, even though they are such visceral

moments, still allowing the actor's room to breathe within those scenes while

portraying the grief and while portraying the anger and the hurt, still giving

them room to not be fully immersed in.

To where they feel like they themselves can't breathe.

So for me, that was one of my main goals with STATIC, outside of just what

it does for me, but what it does for the actors as well, just to be able to

portray those things in a healthy way.

I really, really love that answer.

And I really appreciate that you wrote with, with the actors in

mind and just their wellbeing, having their wellbeing in mind.

I think about a lot.

Plays that I've seen or have worked on.

And there are moments that just feel like, like trauma porn and, uh, yes, exactly.

And you said it best earlier, how it is just included more for the sake

of shock value to elicit a reaction out of the audience rather than to

serve a greater purpose in the play.

Mm-hmm . And, um, not to name names, cough, cough, Hairspray,

cough, cough, Ragtime . Yeah.

Sometimes that that shock value is meant to serve the purpose

of a white savior complex.

Mm.

Yeah.

And I just, I really appreciate that you are.

Questioning the, the structures that are currently in place and

trying to reconfigure how we create art in a way that is beneficial.

Not only for the people who create it and the audiences, but the story itself.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think.

My perspective on this is really informed by Black theater, because I think that

the history of African American theater, that just like you said, the idea of

seeing Black pain on the stage to serve white audiences and me being a Black

playwright and knowing that I want to have people of color on my stage.

Even if, as the main characters, as the happy characters, the sad characters,

I want to have people of color.

I want to have diversity and gender and sexuality and race.

I, and I don't ever want to use the pain of my actors, of my Black actors, of my

minority actors to serve, especially the audiences that we have in North Carolina

, which are usually older white audiences.

And I want them to leave with something substantial.

But the history of abusing these viewpoints and these minority

viewpoints, just hoping that the audience might maybe be able to understand

what real minorities go through.

That's simply not worth it to me to go that far and to hurt my actors.

I want acting in my shows to be an experience that is like you

said, beneficial on both sides.

And I think there's just a long history of a theater that features minority

characters abusing them and giving them tragic ends and tragic beginnings.

And I don't think that that's necessarily necessary.

And so when I was writing static and it's so heavy, and I knew that I would

be dealing with, you know, suicide, which is such a tragic topic, it was

important to me that I wasn't asking.

My actors to put themselves in incredibly compromising physicians or have to

strip their souls bare, to be on stage and bear it all for people who at

the end of the day, even, even though my hope is for them to understand.

And my hope is for them to leave feeling like.

They feel the pain that my actor was trying to portray at the end of the

day, they there's a good chance that they'll leave and they won't feel any

differently about minorities, about students, about the actors, about the

characters and that they won't be changed.

And so I'm not willing to risk their safety for the hope of that.

I'm just snaps to all of that.

because you mentioned it earlier.

I'm just interested.

What are some of the black theater pieces and playwrights who have inspired

you and what would you recommend for listeners to read or watch or study up on?

Yeah, I think that my favorite show of all time is for colored

girls, which is kind of a stereotypical favorite show, but is, but it's forever.

Yeah.

Like it's, I think the

stereotypical for a reason,

because it's good.

It's very, very good.

And I think it, again, captures what I was talking about.

The stories that the women tell in that show are very traumatic and very heavy,

but it's surrounded by so much life.

And the poetry gives so much life to the words into the women,

and it allows the joys of being black to show through the pain.

And I think that's really important.

And so that balance of telling these dark, dark stories, but still showing

that even through the pain, it's worth it, even through the grief it's worth it.

And that there's joy somewhere in that is really important to me.

And it's why I love that show so, so much.

So I think that's a great example of an author or a playwright who's handled

Black grief with just such tender hands.

It really feels like a play that was written by Black women for Black women

and invites by audiences and invites other racial groups and other genders

to come in and be a part of the story.

But it doesn't prioritize those audiences over the women that it's about.

And I think that's the opposite of stories, which trivialize grief.

Or perpetuate black tragedy solely for the benefit of audiences who are mainly white.

That was a beautiful answer.

Thank you.

thank you for letting me talk about it.

Oh no, I'm trying to get tickets to see it in on Broadway right now.

Oh my God.

I love that show so much.

Did you say

they, they moved up the closing date.

Yeah,

I did.

That's why I'm like stressing out, trying to get there.

Right.

I want to see it.

That's a show.

I don't want to leave this earth without having seen at least once

mm-hmm because like, I've read it.

Like I, I want to see it set to

dance.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I think it'll yeah, I think it's gonna be so beautiful.

I was like telling my mom, like let's just hop on the plane right now and go see it.

We can make

it happen.

I do wanna ask if you have any final thoughts or points that you

wanna bring up before we close.

I think the main thing that I want people to walk away with

is that when you're writing to consider the impact, your writing will have

not just on audiences, on the actors who will portray your characters.

Thank you so much for agreeing to do this and to speak

with me and for sharing so openly.

Yeah, this again.

SuperDuper fun.

I love, love talking about the artistic process.

It allows me to procrastinate participating in the artistic process.

Ooh, I feel that

established in 2017 artist soapbox is a podcast production

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