In this episode, Bill Betts is joined by grooming legend Colin Taylor for an honest and insightful chat about the realities of working in the grooming industry, from customer service to burnout and everything in between.

Colin shares stories from his many years in the industry and talks about the biggest challenges groomers face today. While having great technical skills is important, he explains that how you treat your clients and communicate with them is just as vital. Grooming is about more than just a haircut. It’s about building trust, understanding people’s expectations, and creating a professional experience.

Bill and Colin also talk about the importance of setting boundaries, avoiding burnout, and taking care of yourself as a business owner. They explore how networking with other groomers, attending events, and staying active in the grooming community can help build your confidence and spark new ideas.

This episode is full of practical advice and encouragement, whether you’re just starting out or have been grooming for years.

🔗 Find out more about Colin and his products at:

https://www.colintaylorproducts.com

💬 Key Takeaways

• Customer service is key. A great experience keeps clients coming back – not just the groom.
• Talk to your clients. Clear communication helps you meet expectations and avoid problems.
• Set boundaries. You can’t look after others if you don’t take care of yourself first.
• Community matters. Talking to other groomers can boost your confidence and help you grow.
• The industry is changing. We need to adapt – especially when it comes to shows, training, and client expectations.
• It’s more than grooming. Understanding the full pet care journey, including vets and behaviour, helps you stand out.

As always, I'd like to thank the podcast sponsor, Lopay, the low-cost payment platform that helps you keep more of the money you earn!

You can find out more and sign up for Lopay here: https://merchant.lopay.app/ref/PETPASSION2500, where listeners of this podcast get £2500 of fee-free transactions!

And of course, if you feel like you could benefit from Bill's business programs for the Pet Grooming industry, visit our website: https://petpassiontoprofit.com/

Welcome to the Pet Grooming Business Podcast with me, Bill Betts, where we give practical business advice to help you grow your pet grooming business.

This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay, the low rate payment app that gives you more.

So without further ado, let's get going.

Right.

Welcome everyone.

Welcome to, to this next episode of our podcast.

And I'm joined today by the amazing Mr. Colin Taylor.

Hello.

How are you?

Oh, very good, very good.

It's been five years trying to catch up with you.

I know I, I have to apologize and let everybody know, but I did have a pod, a podcast arranged with you and I totally forgot and I, I never know.

I'm normally really good about this kind of stuff, but.

Yeah, it just totally slipped my mind.

Not a problem, Not a problem.

Never offended, don't worry.

Oh, well, I, I appreciate that.

We're here now.

We're here now.

How's it.

So like I said to you earlier, like, we've just finished your, your conference.

That was a few weekends ago.

How you, you all recovered from that?

How's it, how's it been?

Yeah, absolutely.

I, I, I feel like it, it, it pretty much runs very smoothly because of, you know, when you got people like Mel, which I'm so happy she came back this year.

Who was doing the, she's like the ringleader.

She takes care of all the Q and a, she goes back and forth from each stylist and asking questions.

So it keeps it really smooth.

And we gave away so many giveaways to the audience and you know, and I, they were a great audience too because they really engaged.

They were asking lots of questions.

The gala dinner is always the, the, it's just the one thing that stresses me out and that's why we're going to change things up for next year.

But all in all, it was, it was amazing.

The dinner and stuff is kind of out your hands, isn't it?

You entrust that to, to the hotel.

Yeah.

And it's down to them.

It's down to them, isn't it?

Absolutely, Absolutely.

That's enough to, about that.

The, the audience, I could hear them because I had my, my, my stand there and I could hear them like cheering and whooping and asking questions.

And you're right.

It's so important to come along to these things and be open minded and you know, be confident in putting your hand up and asking the, the burning questions that you have in your, in your mind.

Absolutely.

And you know, and there was a lot of lone groomers there and it's really Important for me to know them and to find out who they are, which is not easy, which I'm going to change for next year also.

So everybody's gonna have a lanyard around their neck which tells me and the staff which package they've got and if they're a lone groomer and so on and so forth.

So, yeah, I mean, and you know, get them engaged.

Where we did pass the parcel, which was a lot of fun, we played Pump up the Jam and they all got to pass this thing around and you see the people holding onto the parcel the longest to see if they win it.

And it's just fun.

Like it's just, it's just silly little things like that which kind of, it kind of helps get the people going and, and makes them ask questions.

But they know they're going to get a gift.

They will ask questions.

Yeah.

And I like, I like the fact this year you brought all the trade stands in to do a little segment on introducing themselves because again, you know, when we're sitting on our trade stands and people are wandering past, there can often be a little bit of a barrier and maybe people want to speak to someone about scissors or they want to speak to someone about blasters, but they're not quite sure or confident enough to approach them.

So it's nice to break down that barrier as well with the, with the traders.

Well, and also, you know, the traders play a big vital part in when it comes to any show or whether it be a grooming show or the conference or whatever it may be, you know, there a lot of people do ask what traders are coming, but they want to know who's coming.

We've seen a really big decline in traders.

Well, actually floor traffic, which means traders also because they both go hand in hand and we need to get it hopefully back to where it used to be, where more traders come and more floor traffic comes.

So.

And also to get the traders involved in the conference to explain who they are and what they're about.

And you know, when it comes to what you do and insurance and online systems and credit card machine people, I think it kind of sometimes intimidates groomers because they're, we're creative people.

So we're like, oh my God, that means we're going to be responsible and grown ups and, and I get that because I'm that way too.

I hate, you know, the end of the year with taxes and all that.

And I have a meeting with my accountant next month because with all the changes next year with how it's going to be.

So, you know, I think it's important for groomers to understand, but you guys are really, really important that we have.

Have you talk to the people, have them talk to you, find out how they can make more money, find out how.

What a difference a credit card machine makes in your business, you know.

Yeah.

Do you think it's the online space that has kind of seen a decline in traders sort of going to these events?

Yeah.

You know what?

There is, There is.

Well, I think when you look at it from, from the get go, let's talk about the floor traffic.

When you think about how much availability there is online for people to learn, for people not to leave their houses, for people not wanting to leave their houses, maybe whether it be through mental health or anxiety or just being able to not be now afford it.

And then with that, with that problem, there comes a problem of, you know, traders.

I mean, I've been to, I went to a trade show this year and I made 12 pounds.

And the reason, only reason why I made 12 pounds was because one of my ambassadors bought something from me.

Then she got, she got her discount.

So I'm like, really?

I was like, are you kidding me?

But saying that there are the good and the bad.

Sometimes I go to a show and I do really good, but it's also about being, being present and being there because if you don't go, people forget you.

That's it.

I have that.

You know, I suppose in a nice way.

I don't go to these trade shows and then think, well, how many sales have I made?

Trade shows for me is not about sales at all because, you know, it's for me to get to know people.

And trade shows always humble me in a bit because people come up to me and like, who are you?

And I'm like, oh my God, you've not heard of me sort of thing.

Do you not listen to the podcast?

So you're not part of the Facebook group?

But always, it always humbles me.

It always makes me think, right, I'm not doing enough to get out there.

I need to, I need to do more to get out there sort of thing.

So it's always really nice when, when I say to people, they come up to my stand and I, I talk to them about their, their business and I, and I, I say to them, are you listening to the podcast?

They're like, no, what podcast?

I'm like, oh my God.

You know, so it's always like you said, it's really nice just to, to get out there and speak to people and, and spread the word and get them into my world and get them into your world and so they can start experiencing the products and the services that we provide.

So it is important.

Well, and that is so, so true because, I mean, when people say to me, and you know what you feel like?

I feel like sometimes I bombard the Internet with advertising and stuff like that.

And then somebody says to me, the conference, I didn't know, I had no clue about the conference.

I'm like, are you kidding me?

Am I?

But, you know, it just goes to show, it makes me wonder what's more engaging, a live video or an ad, a moving ad or a still ad.

You know, there's all these questions I ask myself and things I'm still learning when it comes to certain things.

So, you know, it is interesting.

And, you know, I sometimes wonder how, how on earth we managed back in the day when there was the Yellow Pages or how we got the word out there, but there was a conference or, or what you're doing with the podcast.

And, you know, so I do love social media.

I have a love hate relationship with it.

I think right now it's full of just, just nastiness and it makes it so easy for people to be negative and, and, and go on to the attack.

Not because necessarily they are that person.

It's because I think sometimes with other things, it just makes them, makes everything okay to be that way, if you understand what I mean.

Yeah, you can kind of hide behind the keyboard in a way.

Oh, of course you can.

Absolutely.

Definitely.

And I think this is a question that a lot of people, small businesses are going through is like, how do I reach my audience?

And I've just written a small article for Total Grooming magazine answering those kind of questions because it is, it is ever evolving, isn't it?

It's always evolving and always trying to understand, like, what's the next Facebook or what's the next, you know, social media platform we need to be on.

And it's, it's tiring.

Yeah, well, it is.

And my brain, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm not old.

I'm 50, you know, for some people, I'm ancient.

I'm 56.

And I, you know, I, I, I live a really kind of boring life probably, and I think a lot.

So I, I mean, I had, we did an idea when I first moved back to England many, many years ago, and unfortunately then Facebook came in and it totally made my idea not just done, but I think it Has a. I think it will be.

Play a really good part today because I think people are tired and we see different platforms come and go and, you know, but I know sometimes I feel like.

But, you know, is it TikTok now?

Is it Facebook is Instagram.

I think all three of them play a very different game and cater to a very different audience.

Yeah.

You know, so I'm trying to get my head around it and I'm thinking, I'm okay, what.

How do I do.

What do I do to get.

To get the word out about a new brush, a new comb or something I'm doing.

And, you know, I guess I just have to try and keep up with the Joneses, don't we?

Yeah, yeah.

And just keep.

Yeah.

I kind of have a motto which I don't think is always very helpful and it can feel a bit overwhelming.

But my kind of motto, it's when it comes to marketing and we've done it for our grooming business and I do it for myself is like everywhere for everyone, which is like, oh, my God, Bill, this is like, that's massive, isn't it?

But we, we can't judge people by our own standards.

So I, I love a bit of Facebook, but I'm not too keen on TikTok.

But that means I don't put all my eggs just in Facebook.

I need to be have a present on TikTok as well for the people that love TikTok but don't like Facebook.

So, you know, it's kind of catering for everyone and.

And everyone's going to have a different journey to find you, I suppose.

Yeah.

And that's just it.

I mean, I. I watch TikTok for the crazy.

I watch it for.

I'm following a guy right now who's a flat earther and who believe.

Who believes that like Marilyn Monroe.

He believes, but Marilyn Monroe is.

Is also Andy Warhol.

And even though it's crazy, I love it because you know what?

It makes my life.

I'm like, I'm sitting there with my friend from America.

I'm like, what on earth is this guy on about?

And then you think, could you imagine if he was actually right and we were all wrong?

I mean, that would be the funniest.

So, yeah, I think when it comes to TikTok, I watch it for people unboxing the Boo Boos and watching this guy, and I try and get my head around it.

I watch a lot of the groomers on there when I think they do an incredible job putting themselves out there and Then I go onto Facebook to do my ads and then Instagram, which, you know, my Facebook was hacked on 2nd of May, so I don't have a Colin Taylor personal Facebook, which I kind of like.

However, I work really hard on that Facebook page and it's gone, just gone.

So I still have Colleen Taylor products, the Mastered Room and the conference.

And also I go under Coleman.

So I'm using Coleman's.

I've hijacked his page.

Now he's got a bunch of groomers on there.

This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay.

Low pay is half the price of sum up and Zettle.

So you keep more of the money that you earn.

Rate starts at 0.79%.

So maybe I think this is a good place to actually stop here and sort of just say, well, so what are your sort of main products?

What your services that you offer?

Do you.

Do you groom anymore?

Do you still run any grooming salons or anything like that?

No, so I don't.

I don't run any grooming salons.

I teach once a week at Leslie Garrett School in Overcreach.

I do my seminars.

And, you know, so I probably groom, in reality a dog, maybe three or four dogs a year.

And I'm seeing big improvements, though, in them.

I'm like, you know, I.

You know, it's really weird because I used to, you know, I used to be a really serious competitor in the States.

And I mean, I consider a dog.

There's no doubt.

I.

My scissoring skills were amazing, and I learned from some of the best in the world.

And then you don't groom anymore and you go into selling products, which I do.

Now my main focus is selling products and education on also master grooming, the conference.

But obviously then I do my seminars and I teach pet groomers how to groom pet dogs because I'm all about people making the money in the real, you know, in the actual big picture.

The real picture, which is pet grooming.

Yeah.

You know, and.

And also.

And it's about confidence.

So I. I want to build people's confidences up.

I want them to not take it so, so seriously.

I want them to understand.

But every single day they're gonna see improvements.

And in their eyes, they might not see it, but it naturally is occurring.

I think in most professions, and I think in most creative professions, they say you become confident after about 22 months.

So I tell people it's okay.

You know, you will feel these feelings.

It's totally normal.

And you have to, instead of looking at all the.

All the negatives and saying, my work shit.

You have to look at it positive and say, okay, it may not be how I want it to be right now, but let's look at the positives and what I've done better than what I've done before.

I see.

I was speaking to a groomer just this week actually, and she'd been grooming for eight years, having had a break.

And we were talking about pricing and how she didn't feel confident to put her prices up.

And she's like, I just don't know if I'm worth, like if my grooms are worth it, if I'm good enough sort of thing.

And I'm like, you've, you've sat here and told me that you're full.

You've got customers returning to you.

Eight years they've been coming to you.

It's like, you are good enough.

You are, you know, you're.

These people love you.

And, and we'll.

A little teary moment, a little cry, you know, where it was like coming to that realization and understanding that you are good enough.

And, and I also help, I also try and highlight to people.

I don't know if you feel the same, but the, the haircut is obviously one part of the groom, the process.

But actually to be the, the great bit about the business is the customer service and the happy dog and the happy customer sort of thing.

Yeah.

Just always about the haircut, is it.

You know what I, I remember, you know, always been taught when it comes to, when it comes to grooming dogs, the actual groom is probably 30% or 40% of the actual overall experience.

And I remember working for Wagon Tails in America.

And me and me and the girls, because we have CBS in all the vans, we could talk back and forth and me and the girls would have races and find out, you know, who we can get the best tips and made the most money.

And you know what?

I was the best groomer out of everybody.

However, Kelly was the big, bubbly blonde, pretty, pretty blonde.

And she had the personality and she got the most tips and she got the most callbacks.

So when people say, you'll look at the book and it would have Colin do or Kelly do, that means that they requested that particular person.

And I preach it to this day, you can be the best groomer in the world, but, but if you don't have a personality to match that groom, you are, you know, your business may not do well.

And you can be an average groomer and you, you know, with the best customer service and it'll be amazing how well you can do.

And I think people need to understand, but the everyday client who's coming in, they want to make sure that their little Fluffy is going to be taken care of.

And if you make them feel that they are comfortable at leaving little Fluffy and you've given that dog love and care and the utmost respect and the welfare and all that kind of stuff, you know what?

You will be absolutely fine.

The haircut.

And I hate to say this because it's what we teach for.

It's what I teach for a living.

It's what I've been doing for 40 years, but the haircut is secondary.

Yeah, it's all part of the bigger picture, isn't it?

And, yeah, you know, I try and I try and bring people back kind of right, back to basics, but back to custom, good old customer service.

Yeah, yeah.

People really appreciate.

Absolutely.

And, you know, I think you've got.

You have to, you really have to, you know, look at the big picture.

And you got, you know, when I, when I'm teaching new people and I'm like, you know what?

We are the only people, the only people that judge a dog for a haircut nobody else does.

We look at a dog walking down the street, we judge it immediately if we haven't done it.

And at the end of the day, that person's walking down the street with that dog and that they look very happy and they don't care.

They want cute, clean, short bum, short round the eyes, easy, easy to manage.

And I think that's what we need to be focusing on when it comes to client care, is finding out about how they live so we can match their haircut to that lifestyle.

Yeah, I remember.

I think, I think it reminds me of the notes that we make on the dogs that Emma, Emma's groomed before.

And it's like neat feet, you know, short all over, you know, understand, like you said, understanding the client.

And actually, is this dog going to go and jump in the big smelly pond when it gets out of here and.

Yeah.

Does it live on the sofa?

Does it live on the bed?

Does it.

Do they just want nice, easy, managed dog?

Dog?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think the, the reality, you know, people will buy a dog, let's just say a cockapoo.

And I absolutely love them.

I don't like people who, who put them down because they are a dog, they make a lot of money.

But I'm using that dog as an example.

The client wishes and they would love to have a fluffy dog.

But the reality is, and they soon understand it, but the reality of having that fluffy dog isn't benefiting the dog or them.

So if you look at dogs walking down the street today, you normally see a dark blue snap on comb all over the cute face and tail.

And that's okay.

And we have to understand, but grooming a dog is just that.

You're grooming a dog, no matter how you groom it, whether it's a fancy show trim or a shave off, you're still grooming it.

And believe me, when people say a shave off is easy, I've seen some pretty shabby shave offs walking around.

And it's normally done by the owner themselves, not done by a professional groomer.

And including Jigsaw, my dog tools his last, last few years, because he hated being groomed.

I used to get the 7F white out, shave him off as quickly as possible and he looked like hell.

But you know what, I didn't care that that was my dog.

I didn't, I didn't judge my dog, you know, through a haircut.

So obviously we're very associating yourself with like, with dog grooming.

I just wondered if, if, if you had any interest in cat grooming.

Is that something that you've ever looked at or experienced done yourself or you are, you're a proper, like avoid your cats?

No, you know, I actually had when I was a kid, When I was 15 or 14, I had a show cat called Jasper.

He was a cream Persian.

And I love cats.

But then I became very allergic to cats to a point where I could not breathe.

It was like literally like one of them inhalers.

Inhalers.

I do love cats and actually we have a cat, that's all we have right now, cat called Jasper, who is a.

He is, he found Coleman actually in the garden.

Coleman was in the garden.

Jasper showed up one day, sat on Coleman's lap and wouldn't leave his lap.

And then that's when we found out that Coleman had testicle counts.

I can't even say that.

Yeah, that's the right word.

And when we got Jasper, he was like 16 years old.

He's like 19, 18 or 19 now.

So we actually end up keeping him.

We found the owner, the owner took him.

Jasper came back about two and a half miles, came back two days later and he wouldn't leave us.

And so I called up the owner and explained the owner the story with Jasper and Coleman.

And I asked him if we can keep him.

And he goes, absolutely, you can keep him.

So we switched over the microchip into our name and I said I'm not going to love this cat.

I'm not going to love this cat.

I'm not going to love him and I absolutely adore him.

He is a piece of work.

He tolerates me when he wants feeding or when he wants in.

The garden is his kingdom.

The other day I was actually talking on another live with a friend and I said to Coleman, Jasper's coming up the garden with a big ass rat in his mouth and but he's a great hunter and yeah, so that's what we have.

We have Jasper.

Nice, nice.

And what have you.

Obviously you're allergic, but have you watched a cat being groomed?

Have you seen like what they.

What the sort of what it's about?

Yeah, I think, I think Cagrom is huge money.

I mean when you talk to.

I don't know if you've done a podcast with Heidi yet in London.

She has, she.

So she has absolutely animals and she has a shop four doors down from absolutely animals which is only cat grooming.

There's people out there which.

And I think it depends on what area you're in.

Obviously if you're in a big built up area with cats what live indoors, people, people want to have them groom more so they can deal with the coast and the dander and any problems with maybe somebody has with allergies.

But I think to me cats are a two person job, sometimes a one person.

But you know what, if I did go back into grooming today, I still wouldn't do cats, not with your energies.

And actually if I went back into grooming today, I wouldn't groom anything bigger than the schnauzer.

Yeah, I'd be one of those divas like nope, too big for me.

Not interested.

Because and I think when you get to a point and I tell students this, you don't have to groom everything that is requested for you to groom.

If a person calls up with a gray Pyrenees and you are a small person or a person with a big back, I would suggest to you not to groom that dog.

You don't have to.

That's it.

And I think this is again, this is quite a bit of work that we do with groomers around boundaries and especially with, with brand new groomers that are coming into the industry.

And my questions are always like, okay, so you know, how are you going to do it?

So like premises, mobile, etc.

What days do you want to work?

And that's really important.

What days do you want to work.

Because everyone ends up working a Saturday and they hate it.

Well, most people like, oh, we should never start on a Saturday.

And then it's like, if you're going to be a lone groomer, how big do you want to go?

And you said, it's okay.

It's okay to say no.

Sorry, I don't.

I don't do anything above a Labrador or above a snail's or.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

You know, I always tell people, and I ask people in my seminars, first of all, who's a mobile groomer?

And I got a few mobile groomers.

I am amazed how many mobile group.

How many mobile groomers do not charge a service charge.

So when I work for Wagon Tails in.

In Michigan, and this was back in the 90s, we would charge $15 to drive to your house, no matter if it was half a mile down the road or 2 miles down the road or 10 miles.

We would charge $35 for the first hour and then $5 for every 15 minutes.

After the amount of groomers who tell me it's all in the same price, I'm like, hold on one second.

If you got into a taxi cab in London and drove 200 yards down the road, the meter when you sit down on that taxi would be 2 pounds, 80.

That was back in the day when I got into taxi, so it's probably more now.

Yeah, so.

And I said your money for tires, MOTs servicing should not be coming out of your grooming money.

It should be coming out your service fee money.

And anything that is a convenience where somebody hasn't got to leave the house, they do understand and know, but they probably will be a service charge and probably are surprised when you say, no, there isn't.

Yeah, it's a niche.

It's a niche service.

And I was going to use the analogy of, like, booking a taxi and finding out what a taxi.

Yeah.

What a taxi would charge.

I mean, I've got one mobile client whose van's in the garage at the moment because the engine's gone.

You know, it's like, wow, you know, save up for this kind of stuff that's going to happen, but you're going to have to.

What?

And.

And that's just it.

I mean, living in Michigan, we have some severe weather.

So when.

And Dina Perry, who owned the company, she said that service fee money goes into pulling you guys out of ditches and tires and all that kind of stuff.

It's in there for a reason.

And also for maintenance on an engine.

I mean, let's face it.

If you have a car, or any car, van, mobile van or personal vehicle, if you get that engine serviced as it should be serviced, it will last you for years.

If you don't, it's going to not last you at all.

So, you know, I mean, that's unfortunate, but, you know, it's exactly the same with people, I think, people who are trying to conjure up business try and think of anything.

Like one woman put on Facebook the other day.

I'm thinking about doing collection delivery.

What do you think?

And I'm like, I would not entertain it at all.

Because as soon as I said, first of all, you have to have the right insurance, you have to have the right vehicle, and you have to have them dogs in individual containers in your vehicle.

And I said, it is an absolute pain.

And I said, and you got to get up earlier to go to work, pick them all up.

You've got to then do exactly the same thing.

And you don't want to have dogs there all day long, and you don't want to leave halfway through the day to take them dogs home.

It's an efficiency, isn't it?

You know, you're.

You're in a place people can come to you.

It makes you more efficient.

Efficiency leads to, you know, bits and more money.

It's a funny industry, isn't it?

Because I don't think, right, I'm a bit tatty around the sides.

I need a haircut, I need a beard trim.

I don't phone the hairdresser up and say, can you come pick me up?

It's like, exactly, exactly.

Why does the industry.

Why does the grooming industry think, I don't know, that we kind of put restrictions around at the industry.

You know, it was a big thing back in the day because I remember back in the 80s, I used to go to grooming school and I'd say, where's Jill or Andrew?

And they're like, oh, she's out picking out, picking up dogs.

But they would have a purposely built vehicle, a white van, and it would have crates in the back.

But you know, what, was it worth it for the amount of money I think they were charging, like £2 50 for?

I'm like, ain't worth it.

And also, I'm sure you got friends, what, they can take the dog in for you.

Yeah, and we've all.

I think we've all done it.

We certainly did it when we started out, when we started our business.

You know, you kind of like set up and you start, well, how can I, I suppose it's, how can I make our business more attractive to people?

Well, we'll go and get, we'll make it easier for them.

But absolutely.

I suppose what we don't do is we don't think about, we think about all of that and how we can make things easier, but we don't actually think about the, the cost or the, the money behind it, I suppose.

And that's what's miss and also there's.

The problem of there's no guarantee you can park outside their house.

There's no guarantee they're going to have a driveway.

It can be, you know, it's such a, to me there's so many red flags when you have dogs, breeds like rough collies or Poms or don't have necks.

So you put a neck, you put a lead on them, they slip it.

Next minute, you know, you're running down the street 100 miles an hour trying to tackle a dog.

And so to me it's like, no, no, it's not worth it.

I want them to bring the dog to me.

And I think groomers have got to realize because they panic, don't they?

They're like, oh my God, I got this business, how do I get dogs in?

And they would do anything to get a dog groomed, even if it means working on a Sunday.

And I get it because I've been there.

And then I'm like, you know what, I need to have a life.

Because the minute you start breaking down your, your, your, your, you know, what you normally do and you say, okay, I'll do it this time, they're going to expect it every single time.

That's it, that's it.

Barriers, barriers, barriers are, you know something that again, I suppose it isn't taught in, in grooming school, like the building the business and setting your barriers and boundaries.

Sorry, not barriers, setting your boundaries, what you will and won't do.

And I said to someone at your conference, actually he was chatting to me and he said, oh, I messaged my, my clients at like 9 o' clock at night.

My boundaries are pretty horrific and I, but you're enabling them, you're enabling your customers to message you at 9 o' clock at night because you're replying to them and you're not.

It's that people pleasing element from us.

Have you found yourself over the years like being in that position?

Oh God, yeah.

We're trying to work.

We're trying to watch a movie here.

And yeah, so now I'm like, you know what?

We can talk about it tomorrow.

But, you know, it's one of them things with Facebook.

You open yourself up to you.

And I'm very much like this.

If I open up a message by mistake, I have to reply to it, but otherwise it could.

It's gonna get lost.

Yeah.

So I kind of.

And I'm, you know, the one thing people can say is when they message me, I, I, My phone's like, connected to my hand, so I'll always measure them back.

But you do have to kind of say, you know what?

I have to kind of, you know, distance myself a little bit more because believe me, I tell groomers this all the time.

Do not allow yourself to become married to this industry.

Because you know what?

You do have a personal life.

You do have children, you do have a husband, you do have a wife.

You do have, you know, a holiday.

You should, you should be.

Want him to go on.

And, And I think sometimes people.

And I also, the number one thing I tell people is the clients are not your friends because they just, you know, if a client is not happy or you can get them in or whatever it may be, you charge them, whatever, they go somewhere else.

That's it.

That's it.

And, yeah, and something that we try and focus on or questions I ask groomers is like, who are you running that business for?

Are you running a business for yourself for clients or for your staff sort of thing?

Yeah.

And so often they're like, you're right, Bill.

You know, I, I do everything for my clients, but I don't actually get anything, like, for myself, don't get anything back for myself.

And yeah, it's really sad because running a business is such hard work.

You know, it feels like it should be easier in this day and age.

We're all connected and systems and social media and stuff.

But I feel as though it's made it even harder at times because we're always switched on.

Aren't we always like, yeah, on, you.

Know, and also I think we get hooked onto these stupid phrases like, oh, grooming dogs, it's not like going to work.

Hell, yeah, it is.

I mean, and I think when people say things like that or, oh, you know what?

It's, you know, I can't charge her this much money for this dog and all this kind of stuff.

We have to.

And I say this because I was that person also, you know, you, you think with your heart.

And then you realize, holy shit, I've got to pay bills, I've got to make money, I've got to do this, I've got to do that.

And if you want to treat it as a hobby, then the problem is you, you're never going to make money from it.

No, no.

And I know it's just, it's a tough one, but.

And I think through, through the years of doing it, you become harder and harder and harder.

Yeah, but you don't want to get too hard because then you really start to lose the joy.

You know, you start to resent the.

The customers and resent the dog.

So it's a.

Absolutely.

It's a fine balance.

And I was thinking this, this morning, I was thinking about some messaging to put out there, because I do get.

I do get some pushback from people saying, well, Bill, you're about the money.

And it's not about the money, it's about the dogs.

But I was thinking my pushback to that is actually running a business is hard.

And nationwide won't take dog hair as my mortgage payment.

That's the best sort of bare facts about it, isn't it?

They, you know, I can't pay my staff in dog hair.

Can't pay my mortgage in dog hair money.

Unfortunately, no matter what you think about it, be it evil or be it nice or be it good or be it bad, you're running a business.

It is about the money.

And yeah, I mean, you know, unless you are a multimillionaire and you are doing it for free just because you absolutely love it, that's fine.

But if you are not a multimillionaire, and I always tell groomers this, and it sounds terrible, but, you know, but this is what I say.

I always assume, but I'm a single person.

If you ever, ever determine how much money you want to make because your other, your spouse brings in the majority the money or whatever like that, that's.

That.

That may be fine.

But what happens if that one day stops?

Yeah, yeah.

And you have to make sure.

But you can make it on your own.

And that's really, really important to me, you know, to tell people, you know what, you know, believe me, I love the dogs.

And if I went back into grooming, I would groom.

If I went back into grooming today, I would groom four dogs a day, and I would charge probably 65, 65 pounds a dog.

And that's fine.

If I can make 200 and some quid a day, five days a week, that's Fine, but I'm not gonna groom six dogs a day at 40 quid.

Yeah, that's it.

And I do an exercise on some of my workshops where we, we discuss, you know, we talk about money a lot and we discuss like, why is it.

There's an exercise that I do, it's like, why is it better to charge more money for the dog?

And people go away and they write, they have a discussion why it's better for the dog to charge more money, why it's better for the owner to charge more money, why it's better for the business and why it's better for the owner.

And believe me, the lists, the, the positives we get from it versus the cons are so, you know, well, you.

Know, you, you have to look at like this.

If I'm grooming four dogs a day and I'm charging more money, it means my window of grooming that one dog is, is, is bigger because I got less.

I haven't got to, I haven't got a rush.

It means I can actually give clients customer service and talk to them.

And, you know, that is so, so important.

I see so many groomers rush up front, spend, I don't know, 30 seconds of bringing the dog back and I'm like, okay, you know what, you want to be able to like sit and have a little, I'm not saying chit chat about what they're going to do for the weekend, but have some kind of conversation.

And so that client always leaves knowing, my God, that groomer really loves, really loves Fluffy.

That's it, you know, and, and not, not being in a hurry.

And believe me, being in a hurry, the best.

Horrible.

Because you, because you won't end up liking your job.

Yeah.

And I, I think I said at the conference, didn't I?

I said, I think, you know, I believe that groomers get into the industry and they have the values of wanting to look after the, look after the pets.

And you know, they, they really want to care for the pets, but then they get into this trap where they need to earn more money and then they just add more and more grooms or more and more dogs to their day to earn the money because they're too concerned or worried or scared about putting their prices up.

Yeah, that's, that's burnout.

You sort of, you're going towards burnout then because it's.

Yeah.

Over your values.

Well, I, I think, I, I think if you gotta like, take everything away and not know anything about dog grooming and then looked into the Word dog grooming.

And you see all these little parlors, you will think, oh, isn't that cute?

That's really sweet.

That looks like so much fun.

And I'm thinking, that's exactly what I thought.

I'm like, yeah, I'll go be a dog groomer.

That looks like a doddle.

Hell no, it wasn't a doddle.

It was hard work.

Messy, dirty, you know, wet.

Hard work.

And I think people, when they realize that.

Cause I always say to people, when you look at grooming, it is 80% handling and 20% the haircut.

If you have a hard time handling and being firm but kind, you'll have a hard time grooming dogs.

That's it.

You know, so it's now, you know, find it's, there's so many boundaries you have to look for.

And you know, in fact, when people say to me, am I too old to learn how to groom dogs?

I'm like, no, you're not too old.

But if you were to become a groomer, I would strongly suggest you hire in a young person to wash and dry your dogs.

Yeah.

Because that right there, that's the hard work.

Yeah.

And I do love this about the industry.

The fact that they've got the apprenticeship schemes and they've got purpose built apprenticeships for dog grooming.

And I do feel like other parts of the country that perhaps don't have access to that do miss out on those sort of schemes and obviously other parts of the world.

But the apprenticeship scheme for us has just been fantastic throughout the years.

We took our first apprentice on 22 years ago.

I think she stayed with us for seven years and then went off to become a manager at Pets at Home.

But we've always, we've always had apprentices come through our, through our business to, and taught them how to groom and stuff.

So it's an amazing, amazing sort of path for people to go down.

No.

Awesome.

And I think, you know, we have to give them a chance and you know, and you know, just try to, you know, because I mean, a lot of people also, you gotta look at the, the people that do come into the industry once again, including myself.

And I look at a lot of people who, that's why we fluff around with self doubt.

We do this, we do that, we always worry, you know, our anxiety levels are terrible.

And I think, you know, when it comes to learning or being an apprentice, you know, I always try to think about me back in the day when I was a young person and who had the worst stutter who used to hire behind.

My mum would never, ever.

I never ever.

If you would ask me at 15, would you think you'll be.

You could stand in front of 300 people?

I'd be like, no, I have a hard enough time standing in front of two people, so.

But that's what America did to me.

America did really help me become the person I become.

But, yeah, I think we just have to, you know, just be a little bit kinder to ourselves and not beat ourselves up when it comes to things and always stop being.

We have to stop being so negative about what we do.

Look at the positives in what we've done and not always the negatives.

You know, I was thinking, how can we.

We've got, obviously, conference.

You've got your conference coming up in 20, 26, and we'll perhaps talk about what you're offering and any changes that you're making.

But how can we break down those barriers for people that maybe they want to go, but they.

They just don't have that confidence or they.

Or maybe they feel a bit of that imposter syndrome, like, I'm not good enough to be there or I don't.

I don't belong there sort of thing.

Is there, like, you have any thoughts about this, how we could break down these.

These barriers?

Well, yeah.

So, you know, I mean, so in Hershey, I think it's absolutely cheesiest thing in the world, but I think it's incredible.

So they have.

It's not a conga line, but imagine a conga line without the da, da, da, da, da da.

It's somebody who actually walks around with the newbies and takes them around and introduces them and brings them together as a group.

So, you know, when people say to me, oh, I'm nervous about coming, like, there was a lady, actually, this lady, she gave me a Mel.

This card.

Can you say that?

A thank you card.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

And it was so lovely.

And I brought it home and I put it up and I messaged her and I said, I just want to say thank you for that.

It means a lot.

And she says, I'm going to come next year, but I'm probably only going to come and go back and forth from home because I'm by myself and I get a little bit anxiety.

And I said to her, you know what?

You should.

I said, well, you should.

You should have said something.

But then I'm thinking, of course she's not gonna say nothing because she has anxiety.

And I said to her, just, no, but if you Come next year and stay at the hotel.

You can sit with us, you can hang out with us, and I will introduce you to some people.

So with that said, next year, we obviously have the main hall, which seats 200 people.

And then we have 11 classrooms.

So I'm going to make one classroom.

Meditation, prayer, slash whatever they want to go in there.

But the classroom is totally silent.

Mood lighting may be on the walls, maybe some sound music in the background, but it's a space where you can go to relax and close your eyes.

Because I think sometimes with me, I get overwhelmed, and sometimes I'm like, my God, if I could just close my eyes for.

For five minutes, I'd feel so much better.

Then we have the classroom, which I want it to be for, you know.

You know, four people, as like a little meet and greet area.

And have somebody in there, probably Jane Gallagher from America, because she's incredible when it comes to making people feel at ease and motivation, so she can get the people talking to each other.

And then obviously, the other clash is where I want you guys involved as you doing what you do with business.

The credit card people, the shake your tail people, and the insurance people.

I want that to be in one room so people can go there.

I know exactly what they're gonna be introduced to.

And then have all you guys as a group work together.

So it's not just you sitting there and talking to people while the other guys don't.

It's kind of like a package.

Like a package kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and then obviously there'll be the other rooms, which are specialized rooms for Asian grooming and stuff.

So, you know, I want.

And also, when it comes back to people thinking they're not good enough, I have people in the audience who have been grooming for two months to 20 years.

I got people that haven't even gone to grooming school yet that have come to just see if they like it.

And.

But I have to say I understand where they're coming from, because I. I've been in situations where I've got in my car that's turned around because my anxiety is really bad.

And people like, are you sure?

I'm like, absolutely.

And I used to laugh at my friend in America because she was like that.

I'm like, oh, come on, get over it.

And I would never, ever say that to anybody anymore, because you can develop anxiety at any age in your life.

And I think people have to realize you're not out of the woods just because you don't have it.

You know I remember, I remember the day before the conference, you know and this is just like saying we all suffer with this on some scale or another.

I remember the day before the conference was coming and it took me back, actually took me to those feelings of being at school.

You know when, when you're at school you're on your own and you walk into a classroom you're like oh, who am I going to sit with?

Who am I going to have lunch with?

Who am I going to have dinner with?

I was like wow, this is really taking me back to my, my, my sort of secondary school age.

Going, going to the conference and then I walked through the door and obviously there's familiar faces like yourself and others there and, and then I saw Adam there from geared for grooming and I was just like oh my God, I know these people.

And, and all that, all that anxiety and fear and worry and stress just dissipates because you're full of like friendly faces and people saying yeah, stuff.

But the, the build up, the anticipation and the worry and the flashbacks to school and stuff are still there, aren't they?

But no, it's true, you know, I.

Think school's got a lot to answer for.

Well, it does.

And you know, I think I, I think about my school and I lived, my parents house was like two minute walk from school.

So I used to walk out of class often.

I don't have a high school.

I didn't have, I didn't graduate per se.

I got a level in art.

Everything else I think I flunked.

To be honest, my report card said the same thing all the time.

Colin tries hard.

Yeah, it could be better.

And back then you know what you were.

I did extra English and extra math.

I was your typical thick kid who just sat in extra classes to get extra, you know, to get extra lessons, you know, so, and I'm not ashamed of saying it, I don't care.

You know, because nowadays they, you know, people have their kids tested for problems.

You know, back in our day, no we didn't, we were just stupid and thick, which I, you know, but I do giggle because it's like, you know, hey, it is what it is.

But I'm, I don't, I'm not, not regretting it because I've done, I've done so much in my life and you know, I was talking to my friend the other day about math.

I said, you know what, as long as I can add, subtract and shares and that kind of stuff, that's all I need.

That's it.

That's it.

Well, the reality of how you're feeling at the time is always probably worse than what actually when you walk through those doors, you see a familiar face or see your face to start with, you know, and then that fear and worry starts to dissipate.

You know, it's.

Yeah, it's so much.

It's just.

I suppose it's.

It's making sure that we try and push past that to.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And realize also.

But you are not the only person who has them issues.

A million other people do.

And, you know, we all just need to come together and kind of help each other out with that.

And it's okay, once again, to be vocal about it.

It's okay to say, you know what?

This is my issue.

Just to warn you.

Cause I mean.

I mean, Colman knows, like with me, he understands when I'm having an off day and I tell him so that way he knows I'm not in a bad mood.

I'm not ignoring him.

I'm not about.

I'm just.

But I'm just.

I'm just having a wobble.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wanted to just ask you some.

A quick question, actually, about crafts next year and how interesting that's going to be.

So they're putting out information.

Aren't they saying that they're going to introduce.

Is it a dog grooming competition or just a.

A styling sort of section when it comes to crafts?

As far as I know, I don't know a lot, but I think it's a great thing.

I think they're going to have grooming every single day in a competition.

I don't know what capacity, but I know that they want to award the groomer in a big way, like on tv, like on the Sunday when they do the best in show at Corrupt.

I think they're going to do it something where the people are awarded in that capacity, not where they film the grooming competition at that on the Sunday, but the actual award.

So.

Which I think is a really good thing.

I think, you know, with, you know, when it comes to grooming being highlighted, you know, on a.

On a.

On a level like that, I think it's a very positive thing.

Yes, you're going to get pushbacks and yes, you're going to get people that say this and that and that.

And I tell people all the time, do not criticize it until it's happened.

And even when it's happened, you don't have to criticize it.

You can Give constructive criticism, but it's always gonna be a positive.

Okay.

And yes, there'll be little negatives.

Yes, there'd be people that watch it who say that dog shouldn't be on the table and that dog shouldn't be this and that person shouldn't be doing that.

But you know what, it is part of what we do for a living.

And, you know, we just have to make sure we once again make sure that the dog's welfare is always considered and it'll be absolutely fine.

And.

And I know crops is really, really strict when it comes down to animal welfare.

And so I know they're not gonna make it so well that they can only do what.

What they can do, but they're not gonna, you know, make dogs, you know, be.

What's the.

What am I trying to say here?

Stressed?

Yes, absolutely.

Thank you.

They're going to make sure.

But dogs aren't, you know, looked at in a stressful way.

I think what I like about it is I feel like the.

The pet industry is a bit fragmented and there's lots of different.

You've got the showing, you've got the, you know, the vets, you've got the groomers and the dog trainers.

And there's no.

There doesn't always feel like there's a real connection where we're all kind of like pulling in the same direction a bit.

Like what you said about business room with.

With me, a car machine and insurance, you know, all goes together, doesn't it?

But it's.

I think this is going to be quite nice where Crafts will start to.

Maybe this is the start of like the pet industry starting to join up a bit.

You know, crafts brings everyone together anyway, but in.

In the halls, but actually sort of recognizing grooming and like you said, getting it on the telly, showing people that it is connected to, you know, the dogs that are there need.

Need haircuts, a lot of them.

I mean, every single dog that goes there has had a wash or a haircut or something.

So, you know, so grooming is a huge part of the actual procedure of presenting a dog to the judge.

So it just comes down to, you know, once again, you know, to make people aware of.

I mean, guess what?

There's competition in this.

The amount of people that do not know, do not have a clue.

But there's a groom Team England, they haven't got a clue.

Okay.

And the one thing I like about Groom Team USA is it's really, really put out there for everybody to know that Groom Team USA is going to compete for the Worlds.

So, you know, I think it's important that we really do emphasize.

But we do have a team in UK or England, who they are, what they do and how hard they've worked to get there.

And.

And I think Crofts will play a big part in that too.

To highlight the hard work that goes into it and the people that do it.

Yeah.

And start to join things up.

I remember talking to vet and dog groomer Sophie Bell and I sort of saying, well, this would be a good idea if vets had to do like a week's work placement whilst they're training in a groomers.

Because, again, I think there's that disconnect there where they don't quite understand what groomers do and how they can.

How the, how the industries can help each other.

There's crossover there.

Yeah.

Well, I remember working for a vet in Lansing, Michigan.

It was right.

It was right next to the airport, actually.

And, you know, and he had this grooming room and he said the turnover for groomers was, Was.

Was just incredible because groomers would come to work, then one day they wouldn't come to work and then you have to find another groomer, another groomer.

And there has been a very.

There's been a disconnect, I think, between respect of the two professions.

I mean, I respect vets.

They go to college, they do it for years.

They're incredible.

They have a really real sucky job, sometimes depressive.

They got one of the biggest suicide rates in any profession.

Vets do.

And I think when it comes to groomers and vets, I would love to see also a vetting grooming convention, because these two merge together, you know, more than what we know.

Sort of break down the barriers, I suppose.

Yeah, absolutely.

And understand that, you know, we're both professions and I think, you know, groomers have to understand.

But we're not vets.

We shouldn't be diagnosing problems.

I do see on Facebook, many, many people putting pictures on Facebook saying, what is this?

And people really shouldn't be.

I mean, the only answer you should be saying is, I would recommend going to a vet.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's always the.

That's always the fallback position.

But be really nice, wouldn't it, to start breaking down some of those.

Some of those barriers with the professional.

Absolutely, yeah.

It's coming upon us.

Well, I said I'd be slowing down, but I guess I'm not.

I'm going.

So it starts off with the grooming show, then it goes to Ireland and then it goes to Crufts, and then I go to Seattle to the Northwest show, and then I go to Canada for the Canada show.

And then I come back and I do all the shows here, obviously, Master Groom.

And then I go to.

I'm in America probably about, I think like six or seven times next year and, you know, but hey, let me.

I will never complain because as long as I can walk and talk and get on a plane, I'm going to do it.

Okay.

Or be willed to it.

I don't know.

Sometimes I, you know, sometimes I'm looking at the immigration line, I'm thinking, if I was only in a wheelchair, I would get through this line so much faster.

So, yeah, so, I mean, I look forward to, you know, to do.

I love doing what I do.

I love going to shows.

Like I said, even if I made 12 quid, it gets me out the house.

Coleman's probably saying, thank God he's gone for a couple of hours.

And so it's all good, you know, and, you know, but we're traveling a lot next year.

I would.

One thing I want to do, I want to go to India because I do some training in India.

I talk to students every Tuesday and Thursdays who go to a grooming school there.

And I do like an online tuition and teach.

Taught them and all that kind of stuff.

So I'd love to go to India and I want to do my Alaska cruise.

That's what I want to do.

Nice.

Yeah, it is a busy.

You know, one thing I do love about the industry is they.

It loves to get out and about and it loves.

And, you know, I think next year is a busy lineup for.

For shows.

Oh, God, yeah.

And, you know, obviously we have the.

We have the Worlds next year, which is in Romania.

So all the teams will be going to go to compete and we will see which country does really, really well.

Canada did really good last year, so they have a really cool team.

England's got a great team.

Also.

USA's got amazing team.

But, you know, I always say to them, you may be amazing, but remember that everybody else is amazing too.

So, you know, you've got to push yourself all the time to be better.

So you always gotta be better, you know, always gotta try and do that.

So next year will be fun.

And then the lineup for the conference is incredible with the speakers.

So it's gonna be a really good year.

Yeah, brilliant.

Looking forward to it.

Well, thank you so much for your time and joining the podcast and I'll probably see you at the next show.

I don't know when that will be.

Are you.

I'm going to groom for you next.

Yeah, I'll be there.

You'll be there.

So I'll see you in Grim Foria.

And yeah, we do have just let everybody know we got Black Friday specials up already because as we all know the world is way ahead of everything.

So Black Fridays are on colontaylorproducts.com and yeah, happy days.

Excellent pictures.

Your time Colin.

I'll see you.

Thank you sir.

Take care.

Have a good day.

Bye.

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