This month on Making Cents, Bill Zirzow reconnects with Jared Bates, now a key figure at Bill Harris. Jared reflects on his journey from Town Money Saver to running video marketing for the dealership, and how his Lucas football documentaries gained unexpected recognition. The conversation dives into the power of authenticity in marketing, showing how spontaneous, real-life moments often resonate more with audiences than heavily produced content. Jared also shares insights on building strong connections with your team and community, offering valuable lessons for creatives and marketers alike.

Right where you are.

If you're sitting in an electrical matrix of energy beyond belief or most human conception, you'll be surprised to know how much knowledge and communication can be carried on its way.

All right, here we go.

We're back for episode two of making sense, of navigating digital and print marketing.

Thank you, Reagan.

There we go.

Did you say this is making pants?

Yes, making pants.

And can you think of something else?

Bates in making pants and giving life lessons.

Okay.

Thank you.

I went to a good place.

Thank you.

All right.

What a blessing.

Today we have Jared Bates of Bates Enterprises.

We were graced in the past to have him be here.

So this actually used to be one of your little working areas, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

So he pioneered town money saver, TMS plus in the digital age and known throughout the state and beyond.

And we learned this weekend, even outside the state, for your incredible video work for football, by the way.

Yeah.

One thing, when you have a company, you gotta have a hobby that's funner, because then you can spend more time on the hobby like your kids in football.

Right.

That's important.

It is, actually.

I think as a.

As a.

As a team, I think that anywhere, any opportunity you can find to do that with people, those relationships you build get so much stronger.

And, I mean, it just.

I don't know, it shapes for a stronger team and better bond and more.

I don't know if I want to use the word loyalty, but then people really want to actually work for and do things for these people that they share these experiences with.

So, I mean, I.

Wow, we're getting heavy fast.

Oh, well, we don't have to.

Yeah, no, I mean, anytime I step in a room, it's getting heavy.

Yeah, no, let's get.

Let's get some meaning going here.

No, that's good.

So, yeah, you know what?

What the heck?

Let's just kick in this.

So Jared.

So anyway, we got a whole history with Jared, so I can't wait to hear from him, what he's doing.

And we know where he's at, so we know he's doing some really cool stuff.

But.

So just a super cool little nugget was Tommy, my son's coaching, who, when Jared was here, was filming quite a bit for the football games here in Lucas.

And.

Okay.

And anyway, so they played in Pennsylvania this Saturday.

Lucas Cubs had to drive four and a half hours or whatever.

For a running clock.

Yeah, for a running clock.

There you go.

Exactly.

So one of the highlights I heard afterwards after the game was that Tommy said their head coach was real excited to play Lucas.

I guess he thought this was going to be a great training for their team to see a team like Lucas.

And apparently, he referenced the Lucas documentary that he.

That's how he called it.

And he said that he watched the Lucas documentary, and he was so moved by it, and this is what he wanted to create in his.

In his school and his culture and his football team was Jared Bates documentary.

So, wow.

You get to hear it for the first time here, Jared.

That is interesting.

Pennsylvania.

I've always kind of been a person that struggles with compliments.

Like, not that I won't take them.

I just feel awkward.

I feel like, oh, I don't need the light shined on me or anything, but, like, it is.

It is really kind of cool to see those ripple effects happen, and, like, especially after the fact, because when you're in the moment, you don't think about that at all, man.

I.

At the moment, I was like, okay, don't dehydrate and try to get cool shots when you can.

And that's really all I was thinking about.

And, you know, yeah, it's really cool.

Yeah, I mean, it.

It is really cool, and it's humbling, and it's a little bit flattering to see kind of that takeoff.

I mean, I by no means was the first person to do these things, but we didn't have a whole lot of it going on in the area, and we kind of took the ball and ran with it, and then a lot of other things started popping up.

You started seeing new companies come about.

You saw some people start kind of changing how they were covering things, and it was kind of cool.

And again, I wouldn't take all the credit for that, but to be such a small place as Lucas and Lucas schools and kind of see how the impact that we had just by great coaching, cool media, and a bunch of great kids that bought in, it's really cool to see how that really translates throughout the years.

Oh, for sure.

In fact, one of the highlights, I thought, was, when didn't the Mansfield News Journal do a whole article, and then they referenced that the Ohio state buckeyes.

Somebody down there said, this guy's doing at least equal, if not better, work by himself.

And we've got, what, five people doing it or whatever, their hype videos or something?

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, it's really cool.

But, you know, those are the things that when I was younger, I would have, you know, would have definitely given me a bigger head than it does now.

And, I mean, no, you get feel goods from it, and it's fun to hear.

But, you know, the more I've grown, and I really, I learned a lot of this from you.

Like, the second you kind of settle is when problems could really start to arise.

So I usually use those moments where you kind of stumble on something cool or you do something cool and you really, okay, how can we keep using this to build momentum and do other things?

And that's really kind of how I've done it.

You know, I am probably a little bit of a different kind of marketer in that sense.

I'm not the best at planning.

I really go with the flow with stuff.

But I think that really works with my style because I don't want it to ever feel manipulated from a bias opinion.

I mean, obviously, certain things, you're making hype videos and they're about Lucas.

We're not showing the good place from the other team.

But, you know, I'm not trying to, like, manipulate the story, which will, I have no doubt we'll get into story a lot more here.

But I don't.

Yeah, I don't like going with plans.

Like, I didn't go into those games thinking, like, okay, I'm gonna do this and this and that.

You know, you just kind of walk around and you go, all right, that looks cool.

And you start piecing things together, and eventually you kind of just.

I don't.

You.

The story writes itself.

And then my job is to get out of the way and not mess that up.

Yeah.

And I use that every day when I do video.

I mean, I probably one of the.

I wouldn't say I never prepare.

That would be preposterous.

But, you know, I don't go in.

I prefer working without scripts.

I don't like.

No, obviously, for certain things when you're doing social media and stuff.

Excuse me, but, um.

Yeah, I don't like the feeling of people looking like they're reading.

I don't like, uh, I don't like anything that doesn't feel organic, especially when you're coming from a marketing standpoint, because I.

People know that.

Um, there's been this weird.

I don't even.

Weird's not the right word.

Word.

But there's been this kind of cool shift.

And I.

We've even talked about it when I was still working here that a lot of marketing, graphics, video and stuff, there's been kind of this, like, back down to a more amateur style.

And I don't mean that in a negative way, but video and those things are more available than they've ever been.

Like, authentic.

Yeah, more authentic.

They're not pro.

Sorry.

They're not pro produced content, if you will.

But that organic feel, that doesn't feel like it's been written by five people and produced and have an audio engineer and all that stuff really speaks to people because that's the content they're getting on their, their feeds every day.

So it's actually kind of cool to see how, how much, how much more people can do this now and how things become trends.

And, you know, for me, looking from the outside in, I'm like, how is this good content?

But that was kind of a moment where he kind of had to, like, kind of sever the ego a little bit and realize people don't, like, I can make the best thing in the world.

It doesn't matter if people aren't going to watch it.

Right?

Right.

Yep.

So that's kind of, and I'm sure we'll get more into this as we go.

But that was kind of a big moment for me, going through this stuff.

And I think I've really meandered away from where we really.

I know it is.

That's, that's what's fun.

I'm a bit of a podcast junkie, so I tend to, I like when meanderings happen.

Those.

That's where, that's where the gold is.

Yeah.

Well, let me.

There's so many places I want to get to, and so it's a good place.

Let me, a couple of thoughts, if I could share.

First of all, how I met Jared was he was working for Richland source.

And by the way, that's Jared's career, right?

I stole you from them.

They stole you from me.

You just keep getting the man.

People want some.

Is anyone contact you here?

We don't have to say it on the air, just in case.

Get ready, Harris.

You might lose Jared to somebody else.

But anyway, and it's all an incredible compliment, I think I remember the first time what happened for me.

I was just, yeah, I'm involved filming for the team, whatever, just more for the kids and stuff.

And I get home and there's something on the Richland source, and it's your video.

And I'm just blown away.

Like, I've never seen a cool video like this.

So then I thought to myself, I'm gonna meet this guy.

And see, maybe there's a way we could get him over here.

Now, the first time I meet Jared, he kind of has a, you know, I don't really want to freaking meet you attitude when you meet me.

You go to approach him.

I've never had kind of a big.

Guy, I'm a little guy and I'm like, hey, how's it going?

He just looks at you like, what the Eff are you doing here?

Anyway?

No, but he warms up quick.

But I think that the other point I want to make is, and this would be something I'd be curious, like, how much of this is just your natural talent gift and how much can people, you know, say, someone's listening to us right now and they want to take some of that magic that you do?

Because from my perspective, being the employer, not being the creative arty guy, I would say something to Jared like, hey, we're thinking of this kind of thing.

And you would always be like, all right, let me think about it.

And then the next day you'd come back and you'd say something.

I'm like, oh, my gosh, that is incredible.

What a cool perspective.

I wouldn't even think of something like that.

And other last elements.

I want to puke all this out.

The other real gift, I think, and this is a big thing, I look at people as having gifts, sharing their gifts and getting their joy from that.

And I think that's a lot of your story, in my own opinion.

But I think the other thing is, because you're in this environment, this creative, and you could go everywhere and anywhere with it, right?

And it could get bogged down.

We see it all the time.

We struggle with this all the time.

Like, where do I go with this?

People are working on as simple as posts for Facebook or something like that, but somehow you manage to, like, you would just say, all right, here's where it is.

Boom, I'm going to put this piece together, whatever it is, and it's done.

Might not be exactly the way you thought.

I think that was incredible.

Like, I always thought, man, and obviously you're doing it, what, a hundred fold now you're.

How many, how many posts you do a week or something?

Well, I try.

My goal every day is to have two posts for each page, at least one video for each, if not two.

So it just depends on the load.

You know, sometimes you, you got things planned and then salespeople have a customer, so, I mean, you gotta.

And that, I think that kind of comes where, too.

I've had to learn even more than before to work with the flow, because, you know, things just happen.

You're in that kind of environment.

It's fast paced.

Things are happening.

You can't let.

Oh, well, Bronson has a customer now.

I.

My whole day is ruined.

You just gotta be like, all right, time to turn the hips and go laterally and do something different.

So, yeah, it's kind of interesting.

I'll start there.

That way you can make cut.

It's.

It's kind of interesting.

You know, I think more than a lot of people, I do a lot of.

I spend a lot of time self reflecting and really kind of analyzing what I did, how I did it, where it's going, how, you know, in.

From professional to personal level.

Right.

And I think that's something you and I experienced.

We both like deep conversations.

I think surface level stuff kind of bores.

Yeah, it bores me a lot of.

Aren't we born around the same day?

Yeah.

Yeah.

March 30 and April 1, right?

Yeah.

Must be the Aries.

And I think it might be, even though I've heard that's not true anymore.

There's, like, 13 signs or what?

Yeah, I think there's, like 13 astrological signs, actually, now.

Okay.

They've discovered, but people just ignore it, which is fine.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, well, is Pluto still a planet?

I think it's a dog in a Disney cartoon.

Okay.

All right.

Sorry.

No, no.

Uh, but anyway, you know, so I do spend a lot of time just kind of thinking about things regarding how things are going, what I can do better, you know?

And there's a lot of things in my life that I would, you know, spend a lot of time in on that as well.

But I got the opportunity this year to do leadership, Aisling.

And it's just kind of starting.

And it's a cool program.

It's run through the chamber and a couple other companies, and they put on this program for, it's a good eight months or so, where you get to learn how to actually be a leader in the community, and you get to go be part of boards, and you have to complete a project as a group, et cetera, et cetera.

So I'm really excited to get into that, because when I was younger, I never considered myself a leader at all.

Opinionated, sure, but not necessarily a leader.

But I actually have found with just getting more responsibilities and having to do different things, that I do have the ability to kind of make people around me better in so much as, like, when we're doing videos, helping them really feel comfortable and not freaked out.

Cause if you're not used to getting a camera shoved in your face, it's not exactly the most comfortable situation to be in.

Right.

So, like, good about actually bringing the best out of others, which is a lot of fun.

So that's something I've kind of learned.

And I think vision and tenacity, and I think we've talked about that before.

I think I've just always intrinsically had it.

When I was younger.

I can, I don't know, I can picture things in my head.

Like, I can real life images, how it's playing out.

So I get a lot of inspiration from that.

Like, just having the ability to kind of see it and go, okay, this is how we're gonna go.

And the second thing is just doing it.

And again, it's something that I think I learned a lot from you and working here and with Tom, ideas are great.

There's, you can't put a price tag on some of them, but ideas are only that until they're put into action.

Right.

So, I mean, literally, the Nike slogan, just do it.

That's one of my biggest mottos, and that's what I would honestly tell business owners and marketers, gosh, don't get so bogged down in the what if and here, and here's all the variables.

And this, I mean, do your due diligence, but, man, just do it.

If it doesn't work, who cares?

It's social media.

You'll live to fight another day, but you got to do something.

And you'd be surprised.

There's been things that I've spent hours and hours making thinking, oh, this is going to be great.

Get a couple hundred views and a handful of likes.

And then I put something together that I didn't even edit, and you get thousands of views.

So, I mean, you got to just have that ability to kind of step back and go, okay, well, this thing didn't work right, but this did.

How can we combine that?

What can we do more that other way?

Because, again, you know, I come from, I didn't come from movies.

I've never worked in the film industry, but that was kind of where I fell in love with video and stuff.

So I think a lot of, I think of a lot of things very from a kind of artfully visual perspective, but doing social media and doing a lot of that kind of stuff, that's not how people consume it.

So, again, it was kind of like those moments where I had to realize, like, man, every bit of video should be 16 by nine wide.

I do not like portrait landscape, vertical video.

But you know what?

That's what people are watching.

That's what they're doing.

You have to cater to them because it does no good to be cocky and stand in your stand.

Stick to your guns.

When you're trying to do things a, for other people or companies or you're trying to make money for yourself or for, for them or whatever the situation is, you need it to perform, not just look good.

So, I mean, there's been a lot of that where I've had to take steps back and like, oh, I'm gonna do all this b roll and make this thing look good.

And sometimes I'm just like, you know what?

Nope.

It's just gonna be what it is and that's how it's gonna be.

And so, I mean, yeah, long story short, just do it.

Just have, have, even if it's the slightest vision and just do it.

And then the other part of that, and this, I would speak a lot to people who are marketing a lot on this is cut some of the extra details.

There are so many details to everything you do, whether it's buying a car, buying an ad, buying this, that, or whatever.

And the consumer, quite frankly, doesn't care about all those details.

They just don't.

They need something that catches their eye.

Not every detail make the details readily provided a link, URL, whatever it might be.

But, you know, trying to fit every detail and everything and cover every aspect and think of everything.

It's just not how people in general, everything's fast paced now and it's not generally how people think.

So cut the, cut the b's, if you will, and really get down to the point.

So that's why where we would come up with projects and I still do this today, we're like, okay, we want to talk about this.

And then you just kind of start prioritizing and eventually you go, okay, if we cover everything, it's gonna be too long, it's gonna be too much.

What do people need to know to make an action, right?

And that's where you gotta start.

So, like, again, don't, my biggest advice would just be don't, don't worry and don't fret.

Just, just do something.

Yeah, just do something.

Even if it's putting your phone on your car and recording a video on the way to work just saying, hey, it's Monday, y'all, you know, got up this morning.

I mean, there's their realtors in Ashland that I know do that kind of content, and it's just like a daily vlog.

But, man, they get hundreds of followers of people just watching and waiting to hear what they have to say that day.

So you never know what's going to catch.

There are people on TikTok that stream themselves cutting up fish at work for hours and hours, and they got thousands, if not millions of people following them.

Doesn't make any sense to me, but it works, and you can't argue with that.

I'm glad you brought it, because even us doing this podcast, this whole idea was, if I understand correctly, and I both am a little bit uncomfortable in it, and yet I'm very, I'm actually encouraged by it.

And that is that what I'm hearing, especially the gen Zers, younger generation, especially, has been so inundated with digital and just b's, right?

I mean, is there even a news channel right now that's neutral?

No, I mean, I don't know.

One, they're all.

Yeah, they're all opinionated.

They're not news.

So my understanding is this generation is seeking authenticity and just realness, right.

Just like, okay, this is so to the point what you said, like, tommy's telling me, but the r1 estate agent, how he got up and he didn't feel like getting up and went to the gym, and he's telling me how this is one, I'm like, who gives a crap?

Why would you want to?

And what he explained to me was, well, when you get somebody like that, you start to watch them, and if they feel real, if it's very real now, that becomes of interest or something, apparently.

And then you.

And so I guess what it is, if it sounds like, since we're living in such an artificial environment of content that there's such a desperate need, then for real, which, hence what you just said, the goofy thing you did real fast, turned out to be good, because maybe it's even a little more real, right, than the one you prepared and had.

I also, when I'm peeking this out, and this is old school stuff, you know, sell the sizzle, not the steak, right.

And people buy an emotion.

So it fits all that, right?

I've seen some of your really awesome videos with, you know, the cool scale, what, the things called the something cat, the Dodge car, that hellcat.

Hellcat, yeah.

Okay, forget that's cool.

You know, and you did some badass in the Bronco and stuff.

Hey, you know, just the whole point.

Want to get off course when we can tell.

Tell the story because a really cool thing, and I don't know how it really panned out, but you guys got robbed, right?

Oh, you turned it into a really cool last year.

Yeah.

We actually get robbed again.

Yeah, the Chrysler store just actually, if you check out action county pictures, it hasn't been posted yet, but we.

Our Chrysler store got.

Attempted to be broken again over the weekend.

They did not get very far.

That tends to be the case.

We have a lot of security in place, people.

There is.

I don't want to put this out as a challenge or anything.

That's certainly not what I'm doing.

It would be very difficult with trying to steal a vehicle at our place.

Now, did you get ones that our people are trying to steal?

I just had a thought.

Did you get a lot of views and stuff from that whole thing when you were so.

Not this late?

Most recent one.

Yeah.

There wasn't a whole.

But the one from a year ago.

Yeah.

That we actually put the video out of people breaking in and stuff.

Yeah.

I kind of made a character, and we kind of made a laugh at it because, I mean, what else can you do?

You can be real.

I mean, robbery is no joke.

I mean, I think everybody gets that, but we can't.

We can't have stopped it from happening.

So I think the best thing you can do is, a, have a little bit of fun with it marketing wise, because that's always fun, and b, show a little bit of, like, guys, what you're trying to do is pretty impractical, you know?

So maybe you could help us out of thought if it worked out, you know, if you guys had a lot of views, maybe we could stage a robbery here at tell money saver offices, and then, you know, pretend someone's robbing us.

Yeah.

Someone might really need some good trash.

Fire starters, some real authentic, some.

Something to start fire with those magazines.

Yeah.

There you go.

Kidding.

Obviously.

I'm actually a big fan.

No, I'm actually a big fan of drunk direct mail.

But any drunk mail.

Drunk.

Drunk.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you could.

You could call it that.

Making pants and drunk mail.

I like it.

Why did I put in these cups today?

Man, I don't know.

No good stuff.

This is a lot more informational.

Last time, me and Jeff mostly talked about going to the bathroom, how we had to peel up.

Well, I mean, it might be a generational thing.

Jeff's starting to get a little bit older.

It was too old.

It's one old goal today.

Yeah.

I mean, I see what generation.

Are you.

I'm an older millennial.

I'm not the oldest.

I'm 35 millennial.

I think millennials, like.

Like, around 40, compared to my age, would be about the.

The right time.

I'm not 100.

Are you at that age where, like, the kids are listening to me, you're like, I don't even know who they are.

Oh, there's.

We.

So we do have, like, some third party partners that will post some stuff on some of our pages for some contractual stuff, and sometimes they.

They'll post stuff, like, for younger people, and I do it over my head.

Whatever.

The Ohio res.

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, it's.

I do actually skibity.

Is that a band?

Skippity.

Ohio.

Ohio is now a term that means bad.

Yeah.

What?

Yeah, yeah.

If you hear someone say something like that.

So Ohio or something that means bad.

How did that happen?

I have no idea, to be honest.

I thought Ohio was for lovers, but.

I think that's Virginia.

Maybe Ashland.

They're still in Virginia.

Ohio's for corn.

There.

There is a whole lot of corn here.

Corn can be bad.

It can be, but it also feeds a lot of people, so we take credit for that.

I heard recently that the reason it's so humid right now is because the corn is sweating.

I actually did see a story about that.

I didn't read it because I'm an average american and I just read headlines.

See the good example of what's going on.

Right?

There's one little stupid story like that because I've heard it, too.

So apparently it's just like, you know, if I go home and watch CNN.

No, I would never watch CNN.

No, I'm kidding.

But anyway, if you're at home, you know, throughout, let's say I'm home in the morning for some.

I'm off at midday, whatever.

You know, I'm telling people I'm at work doing, hitting the road, but I'm at home watching the news.

But any.

No, but you start seeing the same stories over and over and over again.

And, you know, in fact, one time we stopped watching tv in the house for, like, six months, and it turned it back on.

It was the same stories.

I was like, what do we miss?

So back to the same, you know, authentic, real.

What's happening?

Right.

That seems to be the cool.

Okay, let's.

Let's get off of that.

We have a great point for my last little thoughts on it, because, you know, again, I'm opinionated.

I think that's a product of the 24 hours news cycle yep.

There isn't enough to talk about.

So let's take the hottest topic and talk about it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

You hear me getting closer to the microphone because it gets really old.

Hey, Reagan, can you do the deep, deep voice sound effect?

Jared's done a lot of videos with his.

Maybe we got some cool hype videos where Jared sounds.

Do it with mine.

I don't think it works on yours.

There you go, Jared.

He's taking it.

I like it.

I like it.

All right, all right, Jared, I got a couple things.

So, first of all.

Cause I'm hoping there's some younger people, and we don't know if anyone's actually ever gonna watch this, to be honest with you.

But anyway, if anyone sees it, what was the first thing like?

Cause first of all, it's very.

Here's another cool thing about Jared.

I didn't know my wife.

She likes to ghost stories and stuff like that.

We got some local, you know, myths or folklore or whatever.

And here, Jared's like, what?

In high school?

And you were making these really cool videos about Jane's grave or whatever it's called.

And so my wife, you know, when I met Jared, we started doing such.

I think that's the guy that I watch those videos.

So here.

She had watched those videos before I even met you.

I guess, you know, you could comment on that, too.

But what.

What brought you into marketing?

Like, I know, maybe it was video or movies, but tell me a little bit, how.

How did you go from being a kid in school, and next thing you know, you're kind of on this path that you're in now?

Well, I never cared about math.

That would be the first thing.

No, if you don't like mathematic, here's an.

Yeah, there.

There is a career in the arts.

No, I.

You know, I just.

I think I just always was.

You know, when I was a kid, I watched very few things, but the things I did watch, I obsessed over teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Batman, which, ironically, were about the only kids shows I watched.

I watched a lot of not kids shows, which was kind of weird, but that's apparently just what I wanted to watch.

You know, got into sports, still into sports and stuff.

But, like, I loved the actual.

The thing about sports, the discipline, getting in shape, the working as a team.

I mean, I learned a lot of things from those, but the entertainment aspect of sport was always a lot of fun to me.

You know, trying to be the best out there.

You know, that's pretty common.

I don't know if I'd call myself overly competitive, but I do make a concerted effort to.

To be the best, at least in what I'm doing, right?

So a little bit of that.

And I just think I had a friend of growing up, and, well, we were still friends, and we just.

He was really into movies, and he was like, hey, I need someone to come act in this thing.

We're making some kind of zombie.

Some zombie movie or something.

And that was actually what I first, I was like, I'll be.

Yeah, I'm gonna be an actor, right?

And I suppose I can do it a little bit.

I mean, again, I'm not.

I'm not a professional actor.

That's not what I'm saying.

But, I mean, I don't mind getting from the camera, and I can be goofy and stuff.

That doesn't bother me.

But it was kind of, you know, we just, you know, we would be making stuff, and then I just really wasn't liking the way it was looking.

I was like, eh, this could look better.

And I just started like, well, here, give me the camera, and I'll try to find stuff.

And it wasn't anything, like, studied or anything, but it's like, oh, this is a cool angle.

I'll do it from here.

And we get the editing program.

And, man, this is really bright.

Like, I'm not buying this as gritty and like, okay, give me.

Let me mess with it and see if I can get some looks and stuff.

And I just.

I just started doing it, and I found out that I actually really liked that.

Because you had more control over the story, because that's actually.

And again, maybe a good way to come around to this.

That's probably what I fell in love with first, is stories.

I remember being a kid in elementary school and writing.

Oh, what's the word I'm looking for?

Essay?

No, no.

Like the next books to Harry Potter and stuff, you know, like any of you.

Oh, that's right.

You were.

Aren't you working on a book still?

Well, I don't know if I'm really working on.

I'm always working on things that never.

Well, sometimes you got to start things to realize that you got to do other things.

No, I.

So stories.

So, I mean, books and stuff or, you know, those were the things that I really connected with.

And you got a lot more control over the story behind the camera, right.

At least to a degree.

I mean, I would wouldn't say that actors and people in front don't have an effect.

They certainly do, but you can really control how things flow from the backside.

So doing that, you know, I just kind of kept falling in love with them more and just looking for more and more interesting ways to be able to show things.

Because to me at that time, it was all style over substance.

Just like, how many cool camera angles can we shove into one scene here?

And really, in all reality, fun, but not always the best call, right?

But anyway, what I quickly found out, though, is that stories are what stick with people.

Without a doubt.

I think no matter what you do, news, journalism, marketing, business, being a teacher, I mean, stories are what people remember.

I mean, you really even go back and you start thinking, the stories, the number of stories that survive from oral tradition, from our dawn of history, you know, not only the christian texts, just the other texts that.

I mean, those things survived by oral tradition, right?

All the greek tragedies and myths, those are all survived by oral tradition.

So clearly, they're important to people because we wouldn't remember them for years and years and years and years to retell them.

So, you know, I started to notice that, and I'd always kind of written and did a little bit of things.

But, by the way, you were an english major, right?

Yeah, I was an english major.

So obviously, you're.

You're.

Copywriter.

Yeah, copywriter.

I did reporting.

I've done a little bit in there.

I've done some fun stuff, and I still do enjoy writing.

I think it's a nice, pure form of expression.

That's.

I don't know.

I'm a nerd.

Anyway.

I don't want to say anything, but.

But no, that's.

You trust me.

I'll be the first to admit it.

You know how to say anything.

No.

So what I realized was that, thus, what, again, what people remember.

And I started noticing that in the news, too.

You know, the things that were getting talked about, remembered were the things that had the best story to retell.

Right.

And stories affect us in everything.

I mean, you think about old school propaganda and stuff.

Those were stories, right?

Everything's a story.

Marketing is a story.

So that's probably how I got into it, is stories, because I think stories are everything, whether it's the story of a vehicle that might suit a need or the story of.

We did.

We were.

I helped with the Ashland county back to school celebration recently.

And that's a story, it's not a very particularly difficult story to tell.

I mean, all I had to do was be there and document it.

But people were gonna.

People remember that.

They remember those images.

They remember those things, those smiles on.

Kids faces, like the emotion then.

Yeah, they remember the turn of the car and seeing the head, like how the headlight looked and, you know, the.

They remember businesses by the stories of how they were involved in the community or how they did this or that or so forth.

And to me, that, to me anyway, from.

Maybe even from a smaller business stance, I don't know what, not having been in big cities, how much it would play, but, you know, those are the things that really sell, you know, showing that, like, hey, we're in this community and we're part of it.

And we have invested interest in here other than just selling a vehicle or servicing your vehicle or buying an ad or getting you to the doctor's office or whatever it may be.

So, I mean, it's focusing on those stories and telling those to me are millions times more valuable than, hey, we got a traversing stock.

People who are looking for a traverse can figure out.

We have a traverse and stock pretty easily.

Right.

And I'm not saying it's not important.

We need to have videos on those people need to see and they need to be able to experience without having to be there.

But very few people are going to remember that then.

Skit we did about a jump box being a boombox with Bronson David.

Right.

So really kind of thinking about that and kind of, I call it soft selling or kind of like, I don't mean subliminal in the sense that you're really hiding it, but like, we did that video with the jump box and bronze trying to turn.

I was like, I'm trying to play music for people to see this new equinox, right, there it is.

It's still about the Equinox, but you can have fun with that without being this 36 995 and it's got a front grill and it's got tail lights and some wheels.

That's boring.

Right, right.

That's really where I focus on a lot of things.

And that's where I fell in love.

And that's whenever I approach things, I do my best to try to find the story, even if it's loose in my head, you know, telling that story because.

Yeah, I mean, we're manipulated every day.

I'm actually listening to a podcast right now.

We'll go a little meander here.

Yeah, that's good.

I'm listening to podcasts right now called Rabbit Hole, and it's by the New York Times.

I'm not plugging them because I'm in love with the New York Times or anything.

It's just who made it?

But they talk about the Internet and the algorithms and how they affect us psychologically and how we do things.

Wasn't there a show, Kiefer Sutherland, that was kind of like rabbit hole or.

It's possible.

Okay, I know, but it sounds.

It was that based on that manipulation?

That's why it's.

It starts.

I'm really meandering.

No, you're right.

It starts examining this one specific guy, and it really focuses a lot on YouTube because that's been around a lot.

And the algorithm is very important in terms of how it plays in people's daily lives, because so many people are on YouTube.

So this guy starts off, he's kind of having a rough time in life, right?

And he gets on the Internet and eventually is sucked down a rabbit hole to this really far right, like, stuff that I think most people would question, right?

And I'm not getting political right or left here.

I'm talking about some pretty extreme stuff.

Well, he goes all the way there from here to like a year later, all the way to the other end of the spectrum on ultra left, like scary altar left kind of things.

And he eventually ends up back in the middle.

And that kind of sets up the premise of how the algorithm had, like, the YouTube algorithm and the recommendation system and how it played such an effect on him, but not only, like, the, everyone who gets on YouTube daily and just a little bit of light and how the Internet works.

And it's, let's put it this way.

If you don't have any idea, it's really scary, the situations you can get into, because you're getting as smart.

We can be as smart as we want.

We're not smarter than the AI, right?

It's constantly evolving itself, not to mention the human element that's in it.

But they literally showed how, like, oh, you like this guy?

Well, this guy's got some similar beliefs, and a lot of same people watch that, so recommend you that.

And one that keeps getting deeper and deeper down this rabbit hole.

Well, then they start, they change their algorithm.

Guy gets blasted with stuff the other way, completely flips his stuff.

And it just shows you, like, the stuff they're feeding you.

If you're not careful is what's influencing your opinion.

And if you're not careful with what you're searching, how you're searching it, and what you're looking for and how it's getting delivered to you, pretty soon, you're getting delivered stuff that only supports the things that you've fallen into.

And I don't.

I wouldn't call it necessarily healthy.

Oh, yeah.

And it's just eye opening, which kind of leads me into another project I've been working on.

This one's a little bit more.

A little bit more hush hush.

I mean, it's not that I can't talk about it, but working on a project with some people at the school of the Ashland city schools on a project for some Internet safety for kids and actually helping kids and parents learn how to reset their algorithms on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube, because it's like the social media depression and anxiety in young people is.

It's real.

Oh, I've experienced in my own family.

Yeah.

Well, and that's.

And I know we've talked about it a lot, and, I mean, for most people, the stuff they're seeing online is the best of the best.

And if you're just an average person looking that and not really looking beyond the surface, you start thinking that's the person's whole life, and it's glamorous, and everything's perfect, and you're seeing things in all reality.

You're seeing the tiniest little slivers, and you're not.

You're.

You're experiencing a life that isn't real, like vicariously through other people.

Right.

Yeah.

So this kind of helps.

You know, it's not.

It's not like an anti Internet thing.

It's not like, oh, get off the Internet.

It's bad.

It's just try to have a semblance of understanding so you can smartly, so you can understand where you're going, because it's not going anywhere.

AI certainly isn't going anywhere.

And that stuff is cool, but it's terrifying to be.

Well, and it's.

I think it's.

Yeah, we are down a place, and that's all right.

We'll run around here a little bit.

You know, I think fear and divisiveness.

I'm saying that.

Right, right.

I mean, that's what feels.

I mean, I have friends that I'm with and, you know, guy calling me, hey, we need to form a community because they're gonna do an EMP bomb thing.

You know, it's some social media posting, and I'm just like, oh, my gosh, seriously?

Like, can you just.

Can we just calm down a minute?

And I don't know about you, too, but I.

You know, I watch the news or see stuff on the media, and then I'll go sit somewhere public, and I look around.

I think, where's everyone's pretty.

There's moms and dads.

There's kids.

There's people just driving.

I'm like, where is all this stuff going on?

And maybe it is.

Obviously, it is somewhere, but sure, it's such a minority part of it.

It's not as big as it seems.

You know, I remember working here, um, and it turned out the post itself turned out to be real.

It was a real hoax.

But they were going around, like, all black lives matter is going through Mansfield, and then they're coming to Lucas, and they're going to ravage and ravage, and I remember people freaking out, and I like.

And I'm.

And I'm certainly not poking fun at people, but I remember going, are.

Are you serious?

Do you really think a group is coming to little Lucas to ransack the bow?

I mean, the bow is a cool place.

I'm not knocking it, but I, like, let's be a little bit realistic.

What purpose would it serve them to come here?

And you know, that, again, it's not political.

I tend to, especially as I get older, be a lot more centered, because, again, I.

You know, you just realize that a lot of things.

And I don't think I'm saying that anything.

That a lot of people wouldn't agree with, that things are so bent and warped, no matter which side you look at, right.

That it's.

It's just.

It's like being a copy.

There's one side of the story.

There's another side of story, and usually the truth is somewhere in the middle, right?

So.

And it's not a ploy to tell people what to think or anything.

That's not at all what I'm saying.

It's just.

And I'm not trying to be, like, a scary doomsday or doomsday, you know, say or anything, but you.

You do need to have to be careful and understand a little bit about how things work with the way you interact with it, because you.

Everything's changing daily, and all the scams and the things that happen on.

I mean, it just gets more and more complex.

You know, ten years ago, I never even thought I would ever fall for any kind of scam, and I still haven't knock on wood.

But I mean, there have been times where I've, there have been like, wow, this seems really cool.

Like, someone, one of my friends got hacked in as someone acquaintance that I knew of, and they were asking like, oh, this painter wants to paint, is painting some people from around the community and stuff.

And I was like, yeah, I'm not really that known, but I mean, I don't care if you paint them.

And they're sent pictures of myself for my facebook page, and then they start going like, oh, you want.

They're going to pay you for using your image.

We'll just need what bank you're using and your email.

And I start going, whoa, whoa, whoa.

And they're like, well, we're not, we don't want your account and stuff.

But you give us your email and you start asking questions, you're like, well, see, if you know my email and you know where I bank and you just plug some other questions in, you might be able to find my pat.

I was pretty easily able to start recognizing, okay, like this, all right, this isn't legit, but someone who's never experienced something like that or isn't on the Internet all the time, or isn't on the Internet all the time, how would you ever know?

I mean, it's someone that you vaguely recognize.

They're talking about a person in communities wanting to do like, this community project, painting people.

I mean, it sounds legit enough now, obviously started getting areas where I was like, okay, right, right.

But imagine if you're, I mean, imagine if you have no idea.

I mean, you'd be taken for a couple hundred grand or a couple grand or a couple hundred bucks or whatever.

Have no idea.

So it's, it's, it's scary.

It's.

If you don't have any preparation for how to maneuver somewhat safely, it's.

The Internet is a wonderful place, and it can be a very dangerous place.

And so I respect it.

I'm getting a little weird on you here.

So I had, which, by the way, there was a show.

The kids were playing, me timing them where there, there's a whole group of people attacking, like actually showing.

Like somehow they got in the, in the computer can see the guys sitting there, the guys that are scamming people.

They're attacking them and stuff.

And it was pretty cool show.

But, um, you know, I had, I was at a little guy gave a little talk one time, and he talked about, you know, this.

He was talking spiritual warfare stuff, right?

But he's like, you know, there's this battle going on, and, you know, and I'm picturing, you know, tanks and armies running around and all stuff.

And that at the end he said, and what I'm talking about is in your heart, in the man.

I just kind of pause and I think to your point and why I say this or think of when you're saying it, it's so.

And I find myself just even discipline, you know, just simple disciplines at work, it could be spiritual disciplines, whatever.

How easy we can go down the so called rabbit hole, right?

Like.

Cause I have a feeling we're all constantly being torn, even inside.

Like, I have this thought, maybe a selfish thought.

I don't want to do this thing.

My wife wants me to.

Blah, blah, blah.

Well, I can feed that thought, right?

I can enhance it.

I could nurture it.

And now I can keep getting worse and worse and worse.

And that's the part, to me that I think is predatory, right?

Like, these people that are doing that, they're.

Somebody's manipulating this somewhere, right?

I mean, that's.

It's not just simply a random AI thing that.

I mean, in some way it is, maybe, but it feels like to make it right.

Yeah, but it feels like it's definitely so.

It almost feels to me like an inner discipline to know, you know?

And me and Jared have had many heated debates, right.

Political, whatever.

Absolutely.

But iron sharpens iron.

Yeah.

And you got to love the person first.

You can't be.

And so easy.

And that's our culture.

Yeah.

We're really down a different path here, but, yeah.

So sad to see people using this identity stuff, you know?

In other words.

Well, this is your opinion, and that's who you are.

No, that's your opinion.

That's not who you are.

You know, you're.

You're this person.

Anyway, we can get.

We can go on.

All right, let's go back to some topics here.

I've got some special notes I've prepared.

No, I'm getting so edit.

Cough there.

So what, what are some.

And I think you've kind of touched on it in your, you know, and you, first of all, what is your title right now at Harris?

What do you call yourself?

Media manager, marketing manager, something like.

And you're kind of creator.

I mean, anything creative, I'm pretty much handling.

I mean, like I said, we do have some.

Some third party partners that do do some things, but I mean, in general, like, a lot of the stuff you'll see on YouTube or graphics you see out in public.

So what, here's what I was gonna.

What are your biggest challenges right now?

Like, you know, say, if you could say, what are the things that you have to struggle with?

And then if you have any solutions, because I'd be curious if someone's listening to this that might even be considering or close to, like, what you're doing, you know, that they might be experiencing something.

You know, I certainly don't have an answer to this, but the first thing that comes to mind is, I think a lot of people in the kind of creative space nowadays have to wear a lot of hats, a lot of multi hyphenate kind of things, which I don't think was always the case, and maybe it was in smaller business, which is where.

Definitely where I'm at, where we work.

So maybe it wasn't always the case, but, you know, I deal from everything from making videos in graphics and pictures to updating the website to making specials to.

There's just so a broad amount of things I do, not to mention meetings and other discussions.

It's hard to find time to do everything, and I am a big idea boat, so I got all these ideas and things I want to do, and then it's the time to get to them.

So, I mean, I think that's probably a struggle for everyone.

Yeah.

In fact, you saying that even just simple communication, like, you know, somebody would rather text you.

Somebody seems they want to email and then I guess messaging.

Right.

We have a new franchise.

He's coming in Friday.

You'd love this guy.

And he got four print sales doing Facebook advertising.

And it's all through the direct messenger, is that called?

So I just, I, without even being really directly in the field, I'm curious, like, yeah, how do you decide?

Like, do you post on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter?

I mean, you know, I mean, like, even that kind of stuff, like, how do you even.

Yes.

Figure out your audience is different cars.

They have different audiences.

Well, I think that's actually a fair point.

So, I mean, right down to the square of the problem is square one is the audience.

Right.

So, I mean, the first thing I look at personally is the area you're in.

So we're, you know, we're in north central Ohio, northeast Ohio, however you want to define it.

But we're, we're up toward Lake Erie, and, you know, we don't have, we have, like, plenty of people on, on x, it's called now, but twitter, but I don't find a lot of businesses.

I don't find a lot of business use there.

And I'm certainly not saying that there isn't.

I think it depends on the product, what you're selling, what your product, you know?

And again, maybe they, your audience is there.

I think a lot of stuff from town money saver to Bill Harris, whether you're, you know, or name a business in Ashland or Richland or Wayne county in general, you're dealing with a lot of the same issues.

So.

Cut.

I forgot where I was going with this.

What was the question?

That's the part we're gonna leave in.

Yeah, no, that's fine.

Giggles well, no, because I think we were saying you're trying to manage, I think, what you were going at, maybe.

Oh, like prioritizing, like deciding what.

Yeah.

Do you use Facebook?

Yeah, all the time.

Yeah.

Now I'm back on track.

All right.

Okay.

Yeah.

So the social thing.

So, yeah, I.

We could potentially have a lot of people on x, but I don't find that.

I've been at a part of a lot of companies that know, when I was at some journalists, you know, at the news Journal and Richland sorts and stuff, there was a little bit more.

A lot of people follow sports, local sports that way and news.

So, I mean, I have used it a lot extensively for some things, but, like at Bill Harris with vehicles, we don't find a lot of interaction there.

In fact, I don't even.

I think I closed down our ex account.

We don't even have one right now.

Just because it wasn't worth a lot of our extra time, even if it was minimal, doesn't mean we won't have one again someday or things might change.

It just.

It just didn't seem like the effort carefully.

You might get sued.

Well, I don't care.

Elon Musk is suing advertisers for not advertising on Twitter.

Well, Elon Musk can go buy a cyber truck.

They do look kind of cool when I've seen them.

Yeah.

But I also watched a video.

That thing got, like, ripped apart pretty easily.

Really?

Yeah.

So they look kind of ugly.

And then I seem down the road, there's something about I'm like, I don't know, it's kind of cool.

I think they look really cool.

But, yeah, they've had build issues.

Yeah.

Like, I was watching.

I mean, the favorite thing is when he went to smash that.

I remember when Ben was running, and you remember that first video he was showing, it was indestructible, and he went to hit the window and it smashed.

I mean, I believe it.

Oh, you guys, it's funny as hell, you guys.

Yeah.

Like, I was watching popular youtuber whistlin Dixie, or Whistlin Diesel.

I'm sorry, not whistlin Dixie.

That would be a whole different channel that we do not need to go watch.

And I don't endorse no whistling diesel.

He put, like, an old f 150 to a Cybertruck on a durability test.

Old f 150 on with a cybertruck for a durability test.

Sorry.

Put my cough there.

And it started off cool.

The Cybertruck definitely has some cool things that it can do, and it's quick.

But by the end of the durability test, the Cybertruck wouldn't run.

The 50 would.

So, you know, there's just, you know, there were parts where he was actually, like, the stuff around the doorframe, like, with his hands just popping off the aluminum.

Wow.

Really?

Like, for like, 9ft.

Well, you know, you gotta get.

I guess.

Let me say this.

I'm a little fan of Elon Musk, because Ben loved Elon Musk.

Okay.

I think.

I think there's some really cool things.

Yeah, don't let me.

Yeah.

What I was gonna say, because there's a guy in town here, Carl, who, in my opinion, one of the smartest business guys around, and he said that Elon Musk has created more value than any human.

Blah, blah, blah.

And then someone just got from Vegas.

It was even Tom.

No, no, Mark went there and he said they went out, like, quad riding or something.

And he said there was this acres and acres and acres of solar panels.

And the woman explained to him this was all Elon Musk and that he was going to entire Las Vegas powered by this.

He's building all.

I'm like, what is this Guy not doing?

So maybe it's, you know, it's hard to keep track of the door trim when you've got spaceships and satellites.

Yeah.

I mean, every vehicle has probably recalls and EVery brand and manufacturer every single day.

So, I mean, I certainly would endorse that.

Elon.

Elon's Just a complicated character.

He talks too much.

Like, he shot himself in the foot with the cybertruck because he promised, oh, I'm going to have it in two years, and where we're six years later.

And so he had to put something out, like, to quell investors and, well, in.

His personality is a little bit.

To be a professional troll online.

Right.

I mean, I think that's fair.

I think he would even say that.

I'm not saying anything that I don't think is fair.

So, I mean, that can be complicated, though, when you're literally going online and you're kind of being a troll all the time, even though that's probably not his real personality, that's just online.

But, I mean, I agree.

Am I a huge fan of the Cybertruck?

I don't know.

Do I think SpaceX is particularly important?

Yeah, I actually do.

So, I mean.

Okay.

Certainly not like a anti elon kind of guy or anything.

Okay.

I got a top.

It's.

This would be like religion or politics.

I got a new topic.

Okay.

Currently in the news.

So let's.

Let's get off course a little bit for fun.

I like it.

What do you think about the telegram, CEO being arrested and that whole topic, right?

This whole censorship?

I'm.

You know, I like to consider myself pretty focus on the morality and all that, but I'm challenged by this whole.

You know, that the French can just arrest this guy.

Right?

You know, I'm talking about.

I actually don't.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, I.

Over the last few years, I don't.

Know what's going on.

Well, I will admit, over the last handful of years, I have made a conscious effort to not really pay attention.

See, you're a better man.

Well, no, I don't know.

I don't know if that's altogether good, because I can be some.

I mean, in my career path, it is good to know what's going on.

I'll tell you what.

Let me ask you this.

When you're doing number two, what do you do?

You mean, do you look at your phone or you read newspapers?

Hmm?

No.

No newspaper.

I'm either on my phone or just thinking.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah.

You're thinking sometimes.

Yeah, that's true.

But I like to have my phone.

Well, it's.

A lot of times, number two comes before the shower.

The shower is a good place to think, too.

So it's like pre think into the real think tank.

The toilet is where Bill has all his most important photo conversations.

I've had meetings with Bill.

We've done a video on that.

Wasted.

Right.

We did.

We did a tell.

My favorite video.

Don't waste your time.

I was gonna say, when you're wearing a lot of hats and there's only so many hours in the day, sometimes you gotta maximize the time.

Well, okay, let me explain then, a little bit, so I'll get your opinion.

So my understanding is this guy and I know very little.

Just a little.

Just the headlines, like a lot of people.

But apparently he was in Russia and created this social media platform, telegram, which I've been on and seemed like foreign people want to use it for some reason.

I have people, like, overseas.

They're like, can you get on telegram?

I'm gonna communicate.

I thought part of it was that he was trying to avoid the Russian, you know, control or something.

So this was, so this had the ability for anyone to put anything they want.

Right.

So if I understand the story, right, that maybe to some degree he hasn't cooperated with police for either drug or sexual trafficking or something like that.

People were sending child pornography.

Yeah, child porn through the app.

So here's the thing.

Me and my wife were talking about this, this morning.

I mean, because.

And I think there's so much of this right now, this sense.

Well, Mark Zuckerberg.

Zuckerberg just came out, right?

Said he was censoring, you know, or whatever.

So in other words, that story just broke yesterday, I think, you know, where do, where's this line, right?

Like, where do you have this open communication?

Anyone can say anything they want, and then you have the danger of what they're saying, you know, some horrifying, like child pornography.

And yet you could have someone say, hey, if you say America is great, you know, that's hate speech, or what?

I mean, I don't sound political, but you know what I mean?

Like, it's weird.

I'm absolutely following your line of thinking, boy, that's a tough one.

And, I mean, that's the point, right?

Nothing worth exploring should be easy.

Or if it is, obviously it's not really worth exploring.

Right?

Yeah, that's a tough one, because, I mean, our constitution says freedom of speech and stuff, and I definitely believe that.

And I also, I will also preface this by saying, being able to say it and not having consequences are two different things.

But I think in the spirit of what we're talking about, that's.

That's really tough, because, I mean, yeah, I think people are free to have their opinions, right.

I mean, I think that's part of what we're built on and what makes humans humans.

A lot of what, America.

Yeah.

A lot of other countries aren't, but.

Makes America America makes humans humans, you know, part of what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom, if you want to think that way.

If you want to think that way.

I mean, obviously, I don't think anyone can justify something like that.

Right?

I mean, unless you were happen to be a person of that proclivity, which, again, I'm not endorsing.

Edit.

That'S just a really tough one.

I mean, I think you obviously have to have consequences.

I think that's some of where you have to draw the line.

I mean, you're ahead, free to say whatever you want.

That doesn't mean you're not free of any consequences for it.

Then it starts getting to a really philosophical and ethical discussion about, like, okay, do you block stuff that actually causes physical action and violence?

Because, I mean, I think a reasonable person might say, okay, yeah.

If it's.

If someone says something that causes people to take action, like a terrorist act, that's wrong.

Like yelling fire.

Literally something.

Right.

A crime.

If you yell fire.

Yeah, yeah.

Inciting a panic.

Yeah.

Or even just, you know, like, sending a hateful, terroristic message, and all of a sudden, five people go, do the thing you're talking about.

Right.

That's a really sticky situation, because another person can say the same thing, a couple people laugh, no one react to it all, and it doesn't do anything.

Right.

Same situation, different results.

So it's.

There's.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't.

I really have to sit and wrestle with that.

I mean, my.

My initial thought, without having a lot of thought, is you almost have to take it a little bit by a case by case basis, which is super messy and not efficient, and you can't.

That is certainly not something that we can do.

Right, right.

And you.

And this actually goes into some of the media stuff, because you have a eyes that are doing fact checking, and you got a eyes that are checking ads and doing all these things.

Well, the AI gets it wrong.

I've experienced that.

I've seen it, and.

But, like, so that.

There you go.

So you're going case by case.

Well, okay.

You can't do that with humans, so you got to bring in an AI.

Well, the AI has to have.

Still has some clear definitions, so it still has to be decided at some point.

It's.

There's no good logical answer.

Yeah, I think that's a really good thought exercise.

I like wrestling with that.

To see him.

Yeah.

It'd be something.

We'd have fun talking here at lunch, because the fact that they've arrested him has really brought this to the forefront that this.

They've got this guy, you know, I mean.

Yeah.

Can you say he provided the flat platform?

Did he really?

He didn't make people type the messages.

What's your thoughts, reagan?

You have any opinion on this?

Well, I I think it's okay.

Thank you.

So, anyway, I think it gets a.

Little complicated when we're bringing in a business too.

So, like, the whole idea of freedom of speech doesn't necessarily exist in a.

Company like though, that is paraded about, especially on social media.

That's how a lot of things are portrayed.

Right.

Sure.

Businesses pretend to be people and people pretend to be businesses.

Right.

You know, that's the whole thing I remember learning here.

Yeah, but like, you, like twitter or whatever can legally say, no, you can't post this on our site because it's their site.

You don't have the right to post whatever you want on whether you agree.

With it or not.

Right.

Still, they have the right to say.

Just like in town money saver, you can't just print whatever you want.

Sure.

Like we have can be like, yeah, we're not gonna do that.

But there are, what are those things?

Like, you can't, I think, of hiring practices.

Right.

I can't hire someone because of their religious beliefs or their preferences or whatever.

I don't know what.

There's some law.

So obviously it seems to me like there's some sort of collective ethnic morality consensus of some kind that says, okay, this, like, child pornography is bad.

There's just no question.

This is no one's question.

Most people are going to agree with that.

Yeah.

Now, I think it's interesting even in that industry, because I remember reading this one time where there was a huge fight to show how complex this could get over whether a person acting in pornography was actually over 18 or appeared to be 18.

And if I understood the correct, the pornography industry thought and aggressively to get it to just say the age of 18.

Because unfortunately, what's super sad, and we see, what with sexual trafficking and all that stuff going on, there's a lot of creepy old guys that are, you know, doing whatever and they're seeking these young girls.

And so in the pornography, and they didn't, this article I was reading, they said that they intentionally find girls, dress them down so they want to make them appear as if they're younger than that or whatever.

So even in something that would seem like we would all easily agree with it, there can be this real battle and this line that gets really fuzzy and stuff.

So I don't, I don't know either.

It is.

And I, and I mean, not to get holier than the album or anything like that with anyone, but I, there is, I don't think there's a lot of, there's not a lot of effort put into morals and ethics like in, I don't want to even say in this country, I think anywhere.

Like, and I don't mean like having morality or ethics, like the real study of, like what does it mean?

Like what is immoral and what are ethics and how does it mean?

Like, like a college level, like, and again, I'm not saying everybody needs to go take a philosophy and ethics 101, but I mean, there is a value in understanding kind of like how those work.

And it's, it's not something that's talked a lot about, I mean everybody knows what morals and ethics are, but I think a lot of people have their own set of moral and ethics.

Right.

But there is kind of like as a society, we kind of have some accepted morals and ethics and those things change.

I mean, we witness that all the time.

I mean, even looking at the way comedy has changed from the early two thousands now, I mean that was comedy gold to me.

But now I'd, you know, I'd be canceled for some this, the laugh, right.

And everything's a pendulum.

I think it's starting to come back.

I think there's this big anti being super sensitive to everything that's kind of coming back the other way and we're probably going to end up in a spot where it's like, okay, we're not being sensitive to everyone and we're kind of being, we need to check ourselves.

We start replaying Andrew Dice Clay.

Yeah, well, I mean, but it's going to happen.

It's always a pendulum.

So I think this is actually an interesting talk, which is a place I thought, I think I kind of wanted to go with you just because I know it's something we both have, have experience with and a lot of people do, even if they don't talk about it, is mental health stuff because I mean, the pornography stuff obviously really plays into that.

Yeah, I mean, do any number of searches on how many guys are starting to get lower and lower testosterone, lower and lower, younger and younger and other things that are causing real problems for younger guys that weren't existing years ago.

So I mean there's some real stuff there and a lot of that stuff will come back to mental health in some way.

Or I, you know, in that essence, you went there and I, you know, I think we all have a little bit of, be honest with you, but I think in my family too, we've had a deal with this, you know, and anyway, I think it's, it's so like under, you know, I don't know, under reported, under involved in the, you know, whether it's the shootings, whether it's the addiction stuff going on, probably the sex trap, whatever.

I just think there's so much mental health issues going on, and I don't think we even begin to kind of know.

I mean, there's a little bit, right, but.

Well, there is so much.

And I mean, there's a million directions we can go with that.

You know, the kind of this, the talk about drugs or something.

There's the school thought like, oh, you did drugs, broke law, now you get arrested.

Is that better than saying, no, you've got a problem, we need to get you help.

And going that route.

There are people that think that that would be a better route, and there are people of trying that.

And I don't know.

I'm certainly not saying I don't know.

Oh, no, I.

Well, to that point, I talked to one of the police chiefs around here and he said, this is so screwed up.

He goes, these are people that are having mental health issues.

They're having addiction.

These are like illnesses, diseases, and we're arresting them and giving them a record.

Now they got a felony on their record, right.

And 100%.

And I think it's getting better.

And I actually do think that we're going to have.

And honestly, it's probably part of some of the extreme sensitivity or the extra sensitivity we have in society now.

As, I think, more recognition of mental health issues and how they affect people.

You can argue that maybe it's gone a little too far.

You can argue that, you know, whatever, I'm not here to make that statement, but people are talking about it more.

It is getting recognized more.

And I think we are going to have some vast shifts in how we address these things throughout not only the country, but the world.

But I know it's something I really struggle with.

I know you've had some history with it and your family and stuff.

It's stuff that we've had to experience together, obviously me much less than you.

But, you know, I think that's something.

Whether you're a small business owner, you're in marketing, you're in advertising, you're an athlete, or really whatever you're doing.

But if you're doing something, you're really putting your heart into, which I fully believe.

Something I tell people this weekly, I'm not kidding, that I learned from you, is if you have a gift, if you have a talent, if you're not using it for some kind of good and to spread some kind of joy, why?

What's the point of having it right.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I really believe that.

And, you know, when you get, when you get your heart into something, you tend to spend more time, then you got less time for other things, and then all of a sudden, you're all caught up.

And I've been a victim of this.

It happens to me all the time.

I can be kind of a workaholic because I enjoy what I do.

And all of a sudden, I realize, like, oh, man, I haven't moved my yard in a week, and I haven't talked to my wife hardly, and I haven't done these things.

But when you're passionate about something, you get involved.

It's, it's really easy to kind of forget about some of your health, especially your mental health.

And I know it affects me a lot from time to time, and I've actually gotten a lot better, I think, over the last handful of years to be more healthy and how to handle that and deal with things, but I just highlighting the importance of taking care of and considering your mental health, especially if you're doing something you really love, because burnout and those, I mean, those things really happen.

And if you're not careful and you do have some, some real mental health issues behind you, man, can you spiral out so, so, so fast.

And, and, you know, a lot of people, I think I am one of them, and I know a lot of people are, you know, strong enough to pick themselves back up and rebuild and, you know, recalculate.

But there's some people that aren't.

And that, I mean, just to put play, that sucks that there are some people that think that it's so low that there's just nothing left to rebuild.

So, you know, I just.

The high, the importance of that, because I think everyone, and no matter the industry, passion is a powerful emotion.

But passion and love and passion and anger and hatred are really close.

Right, exactly.

So, I mean, if you're not careful, you just get lost in the sauce, and it's.

You don't take care of yourself.

Ooh, I like that.

Lost in the cell.

Yeah.

And you just get.

Yeah, you just, you lose track of things, and that's no good for anyone.

I, um.

As you're coming, too.

And, in fact, I remember I had, you know, my daughter was going through a little episode at home, and I think this is a huge, huge point, I think.

And this is both mental health and addiction.

Right.

And I remember thinking, what is your problem?

Like, you know, what's going on and you're not stopping it or fixing it or whatever, right?

And I don't know if you remember this, but you were the one.

I sat, I came to work and I had this horrendous panic attack.

Like I had had one in, I had, when I was younger, like twenties, and it had to be a God thing, because I remember thinking, I am fully aware that this is going on and I can't stop it.

This is gonna happen, right?

And I really feel like if I had to pinpoint one thing, like stigma wise or something, and I struggle with this, and we've had it big in our family that the people that are in the addiction and the male that's going on, they don't want to be there.

And yet it's so easy as an observer or someone work, a coworker or something, you're like, what's their problem?

Why aren't they doing this?

You know, it could manifest itself in just little work, things going on, especially if it's on the job, right.

We've had stuff, we know it's affected, you know, jobs that we've been on or something.

And to have that sensitivity.

So in other words, you know, if someone was on crutches, everyone would be easily aware.

Easily.

Oh, here, let me get the door.

Let me do this.

But the mental health, they don't, it's, it's invisible, kind of.

It's hard to see.

So I, if there's anything I would offer, it's like, man, please, if you, if you haven't personally experienced it, know that those people don't want to be in, that they're not controlling.

90% of them.

Yeah, they're in the, and they don't know.

I liken it a lot to, you know, if you're watching a movie and you see someone lost in the woods and it's dark, and it's like, if you just walk straight 45 yards, you'll be out, right?

Well, it's easy to say when you know where it's at.

If you're lost in the woods and it's dark, you don't know 45 yards from north to south to east to west to go.

So that isn't helpful to tell it.

Just, just walk forward, you'll get out.

Like, yeah, I also kind of think about it too, so it won't get a little heady here.

But, you know, the idea of different dimensions, and I'm talking about like, second dimension, third dimension, fourth dimension, blah, blah, blah.

Science supposedly says there's eleven dimensions, right?

Which is beyond what we can kind.

Of correlate with the astrology, the 13 thing?

I don't think so.

And if it does, it's.

It's still beyond.

I'm lost in the sauce.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

So supposedly there's like eleven dimensions that they can.

They can.

They can explain, right?

But as people, we experience things in the third dimension.