Being a coach can be frustrating. You learn to become a coach. You put in the hours of coaching and build up your confidence to start charging for your services, but then you find out you need to have media and marketing strategies, and you need to do sales and loads of other things that aren't coaching, aren't your zone of genius.

Some coaches don't bother and end up falling by the wayside.  Some will find work with coaching companies that will help to find you clients and will give you an hourly rate, and some will want to do things their own way and grow their own coaching business. Or maybe a combination of those options, and this episode is for those of you who really are ready and willing to learn and do what it takes to grow your business.

Podfluence is all about growing your business and your brand to help you get more clients and more opportunities, but we need to know how to find or create these opportunities.

My guest is Simone Sauter, and Simone became a divorce coach after her partner of 10 years, suddenly left her. In that time, she found that one of the best ways to promote her own business and service was by getting featured in prestigious magazines and on podcasts. She figured out how to do that, and did such a great job of it that people started asking her to teach them how to do it too. So now Simone is a publicity coach for professional coaches like you and me.

If you've been wanting to grow your business and your personal brand, but struggling with the how, you are going to get some great tips in this episode and we'll be taking a look at why coaches should be getting featured in magazines and other podcasts, and how to get you started with this and what you need to be doing to grow your business through digital media.

You can download Simone's insider tips giveaway here: https://www.simonesauter.com/insider-tips/

Enjoying the content? Join me for the Podfluence Weekly newsletter on LinkedIn, Medium or Beehive to get articles and show updates every week(ish).

You are warmly invited to join other coaching & speaking professionals who are building their authority through podcasting in the Podfluencers Facebook Group and get your free download of How to grow your list with podcasts.

There are 2 things that fill my heart with joy: one is people sharing my episodes because they've been helpful and hopefully entertaining, and the other is people leaving reviews for Podfluence on Apple Podcasts or PodChaser. Either of these will earn my ever-lasting gratitude and both might just get you on my Christmas card list.

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Being a coach can be frustrating.

You learn to become a coach.

You put in the hours of coaching and build up your confidence to

start charging for your services, but then you find out you need to have

media and marketing strategies, and you need to do sales and loads of

other things that aren't coaching.

Aren't your zone of genius.

Some coaches don't bother and end up falling by the wayside.

Some will find work with coaching companies that will help to find you

clients and will give you an hourly rate, and some will want to do things their own

way and grow their own coaching business.

Or maybe a combination of those options, and this episode is for those of you who

really are ready and willing to learn and do what it takes to grow your business.

This is Podfluence, the show that helps you to grow your

influence and income with podcasts.

My name is John Ball and my mission is to help you, the self-employed

business coach, to grow your influence and income now so you can have a

continually thriving coaching business.

In this episode, I want to take a look at why we should be considering getting

featured in prestigious magazines and on podcasts and how you can make that happen.

Podfluence is all about growing your business and your brand to help you get

more clients and more opportunities.

But we need to know how to find or create these opportunities.

My guest is Simone Sauter, and Simone became a divorce coach after her

partner of 10 years, suddenly left her.

In that time, she found that one of the best ways to promote

her own business and service,

was by getting featured in prestigious magazines and on podcast, she figured

out how to do that, and she did such a great job of it that people started

asking her to teach them how to do it too.

So now Simone is a publicity coach for professional coaches like you and I.

If you've been wanting to grow your business and your personal

brand, but struggling with the how,

you are going to get some great tips in this episode and we'll be taking a look

at why coaches should be getting featured in magazines and on other podcasts,

and how to get you started with this and what you need to be doing to grow

your business through digital media.

Just before we get started, if you are not already following Podfluence and

you have your device in your hand right now, if you are on Apple Podcasts or

Spotify, all you need to do is click the plus button next to the show.

On any other devices or on your desktop, you may see a follow option.

Either of those are good.

You will get the latest episodes of Pod Fluence as they come out.

And if you want more pod fluence, make sure you join me on LinkedIn or beehive

for the Pod Fluence Weekly newsletter and you'll find the link in the show notes.

But now prick up your ears.

Get ready for this week's episode of Podfluence.

Welcome to the show, and we are really all about building influence and building our

authority and getting following, and we have an expert to help us with that today.

So I am joined in the studio by Simone Sauter.

Simone, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me, Johnny.

I'm looking forward to our conversation I know we're

gonna get some interesting bits of information for you and that you

are actually a publicity coach.

This is what you help people with, right?

Exactly.

This is what I help people with getting featured in prestigious

magazines and on podcast shows.

Well, we are in capable hands then today, so this is

gonna, may wanna take notes.

And just so you know, in advance all of the information for everything we talk

about today, any links or anything like that or how to connect with Simone,

it's all gonna be in the show notes.

So if you want to find any of that out, go and check the show notes for the episode.

You'll be able to connect with Simone, you'll be able to get any of

the links to anything we talk about.

And let's get into our conversation today.

when we're talking about publicity and you said about getting people into

prestigious magazines and onto podcasts, why do people generally want to do that?

What are the main reasons that you hear that people want to work with you?

Well, one reason is to get more visible to, reach

an audience on a bigger scale.

Because if you get a featured in the media, right, you can

reach up to millions of people.

Of course, you know, if you're in a, like featured in Cosmo or like big magazines.

But also another reason is to build trust with their ideal client.

And what I see the last year is more and more that trust becomes increasingly

more important because there are so many.

Entrepreneurs out there, and I particularly work with

coaches and consultants, so my clients are the product, right?

So they they help and guide people through some challenge.

It may be in life or in business, it doesn't really matter.

And what the media does is it gives you this credibility instantly, right?

So, subconsciously we know that people who are featured in the

media, they own their stuff.

They know what they do, they are and a trusted expert.

And this is something that is more the goal of coaches that are

like more along the way, like, you know, more six figure coaches.

And if you are more in the beginning and intermediate stages, it's more

like, Hey, I wanna be more visible.

I wanna build my audience fast and get new people into.

Yeah, one of the things that I sometimes find myself talking about and

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this and I was speaking to Chris Ducker

and I dunno if you know who Chris is, but but Chris, I is quite a well known person

in the sort of entrepreneurial space as a speaker, a podcaster and trainer

and does a lot of work with Pat Flynn.

And and one of the things I asked Chris was really about whether some people.

Often starting off with just trying to get the publicity or trying to get

the following and the podcast stuff going and the magazine stuff going.

And that's what they're beginning with.

And they don't have all the foundational stuff that they need do.

Do you sometimes encounter that or do you think it's actually fine to start

working on the publicity straight away?

I actually encourage people to start on their publicity.

Right away.

if they have something like there, there need to be a couple

of things in place, right?

So you need to understand your ideal client.

You need to understand what you want to be known for, because

this is what you talk about.

And you need to have a way to capture people's email addresses because, . Like

I have a lot of people that say like, Hey, I want, I want to promote that

people get on the phone with me, but not everybody who will see you, they, they

are not ready to get on the phone, right?

So you need to create something that people can download

that is very, very valuable.

So that they are willing to exchange their email address for that.

And then you can actually nurture.

and getting in the media and our podcast is actually basically you tap into

already existing audiences, right?

So, I pitched you because I know that we have a similar audience, right?

So now your listeners can listen to me and I am here to share valuable information

that is interesting to your audience.

and if people are interested, they, they can sign up for my email

list and then get into my world.

And from my experience is is a very fast way and a a free way

also to build your audience, right?

So a lot of people also want to start out with ads because they say like, okay,

like social media takes me too long.

I don't know how to do all of that.

Like, but let's do ads.

And ads are great, right?

I love ads.

To really make ads work.

There is a lot of testing involved.

There is money involved, and I see just a lot of people burning their money with

ads, and from my perspective, it's not the ideal way to actually get started.

So, , getting publicity is a great way to get started if you

have a couple things in place.

Yeah, I mean, I think we probably all are very familiar with

the idea of being in magazines for some publicity and being high profile stuff.

Although, I mean, you seem to be that, that is kind of a, a,

sometimes a one and done thing, mate.

You'll be in a magazine, but then you're kind of on the pile and you may be in

a coffee table in a doctor's waiting room or something like that after that.

Mm-hmm.

. But with podcast.

You are more likely to be perhaps revisited, I think and I know that when

I'm looking at episodes or people's shows, I'm not necessarily looking always for

the most recent episode, and even if I see that, I'm not always gonna listen to it.

I'm looking for the episode titles, not necessarily the guests, but the subject

matter that I'm most interested in.

And sometimes I think people get a bit wrong on that, but what do you advise

your clients with and why do you have a big focus on podcasts particularly?

Like for the same reason I have the focus on podcasts

as well, and I actually don't teach.

Okay.

I always say to my clients, we start online and why?

Because we have, we all have online businesses now I, with my with my

coaching business, with my first business, I've been featured in a lot of like

30 print magazines or something like that, including Cosmopolitan and print

and tv, it doesn't move the needle.

It's great for if you look at building your reputation and your influence, right?

But it's not moving the needle towards building an audience.

What does is getting featured in online magazines.

And on podcast shows, right?

So because you will also rank up Google, you have your topic of

impact and, there are people who look for what you have to share.

And once they Google it, you will appear on the podcast shows you will on the

first page on Google when you have been on prestigious podcast shows and

also in prestigious magazines, right?

So, and it stays there.

And you also.

You build back links to your website.

Now with my first.

I, I used PR for my with my first business just to, to build my

entire business and to grow it.

I have built a website with more than 100,000 monthly organic readers.

And why?

Because I have been featured all over the place and I have done this online

and created all the backlinks and so I am not an SEO expert per se, but the

more backlinks you have from valuable, influential other pages, Like point to

your website that just tells Google, Hey, this is an interesting page and that will

help your ranking for your own website.

Right.

So this is why I teach my clients how to get featured in online

magazines and on podcast shows.

And also I love podcasts.

No, that's

fine.

It's great.

I mean, yeah.

Great that you love podcasts as well.

You were previously a divorce and breakup coach, right?

So this is, this is what you did.

With all of that stuff.

So you know, if there are any divorce breakup, coaches listening in, then

you may want to do exactly what Simone has done to, to replicate

those same kind of results.

But yeah, definitely.

I get that, that being in the sort of high brow or popular

magazines is great for credibility because you can then put on your.

On your information on your media kit as featured in, and

that always looks really good.

But in terms of actually having the lead generation and the people coming

and hopefully knocking on your door at least downloading your giveaway

or joining your community or whatever you asked them to do, podcasts and.

being treated in blog and all those kinds of things have much more chance because

they stay around longer and people are more like to check through, check back

through them, and things like that.

So that's really cool.

What do people need to do to be able to prepare for media with,

particularly with podcasting, like,

Like the, like the process that I teach is it's

basically a six step process, right?

And it's actually fairly simple.

So, as I said earlier, you need to have the foundation, right?

So you need to understand the ideal client so that you know which

kind of show you should pitched.

You need to understand what you want to be known for so that you know

what you, what you talk about, right?

And you should have a lead magnet in place so that you

can actually capture the leads.

The leads, right?

So once you have that, then the next step would be that you create a list of

podcasts that are interesting for you and that actually have your audience.

And what I always say is do not pitch a podcast that you haven't listened

to because it's, this is one of the most common mistakes that I see.

It's like people they send a pitch.

Like it's one pitch.

It's always the same.

Hello.

Hello there.

Sometimes they, enter the name of the podcast host sometimes no.

Yes.

Oh, sometimes.

So one name, which is like, anyway and so now you have the list.

Then you want, what you want to do is you want to go show by show, listen

to the podcast, and then decide what topic, like I always recommend to have

two to four core topics of impact.

Which kind of topic do you want to pitch to that show?

And one part of your research should be.

Has this topic been covered on that podcast already?

If it was like the last six months, I wouldn't pitch them

because they covered it already.

If it was covered two years ago, you can say like, Hey, I've seen two

years ago you covered that topic.

I have actually additional thoughts.

I have a different opinion or whatever.

Like something that you can add to.

Show that already has been published, right?

Yeah.

And then the next step is to write your pitch.

Right.

And with a pitch, it is very crucial and I'm sure you agree on that.

So I, as I said I used to run a po a block with more than 100,000 monthly.

We just still got, I got pitched a lot.

But with a pitch, like, say the name of the podcast host Right?

Spell it correctly.

I can't tell you.

So my name is Simone.

I can't tell you how often I've been Sandra.

So that was like, you know, say the writing,

it's a lack of attention to detail, frankly, as well.

Yeah.

And then spell the name correctly.

And then in the first two sentences, right, relate to the podcast host, right?

Like, show that you listen to the, that you listen to the show, show that

you follow the, the podcast host, and that you actually appreciate the work.

And don't say like, Hey look, this is me.

I wanna be on your show.

Present me to your audience.

This is not what it is about, right?

It's about.

Adding value to the audience of somebody who has built up something

that you want to join in, right?

You want to get into on, on that show and the pod you want the

podcast host to may more or less present it to his of our audience.

Yeah.

So it's up to you to actually add value.

This is what it's all about, and this is something that is really.

that a lot of people do not understand.

I agree.

If it's not about adding value, it is, it is advertising.

Right?

Then you can just do ads.

You're like, you know, if you know how to do this then you know,

you can say like, Hey look, I am the most amazing human being.

I can help you with this and that.

And well also then you have to add value.

But, you know, so this is the, this is.

The most crucial thing you know, relate to the podcast host and then pitch the topic.

Say what the listener will take away, why it is valuable.

Share contact information.

Also, maybe share that you have been on another podcast show before so

that the podcast host can actually listen to you because you know, the

entire podcast show stands and falls.

Quality of the sound how you speak because you need to also speak a

little bit in entertaining because if you talk really like this, this is

not entertaining and nobody wants to listen to that for 30 minutes anyway.

So, , that is basically it, right?

And then if you don't hear back, follow up, follow up in a kind way,

because some people get angry if they don't hear back, like they're,

you know, yeah, I've had that.

We're all busy.

Follow up.

Say like, Hey, always forward the initial pitch so that the podcast

host doesn't have to actually search for your first email.

Make it as easy as possible for the other person.

So like, Hey, I know we're all busy.

, I'm not sure if you have actually seen the the email that I sent you earlier.

I'm looking forward like you can see it below.

Looking forward to hearing back from

you.

Yeah, we think, we think this is all stuff that should make sense,

but it, it's amazing how much it doesn't happen and I, I can tell you.

. It definitely doesn't happen as much as I would like it to.

But you know, I've very much been along the lines of you should definitely

research the shows that you want to go on.

At least listen to an episode or some, at least skim an episode, you know, dip into

it, have a sense of what it's about and the style of the show and the voice of

the host and whether they're funny or not.

Just so you.

What you're getting into.

Are they any good?

As an interviewer, take at least take a look through their list of episodes

and see what they generally talk about and what they're most focused

on and how many episodes they've got.

That's a really important thing to know as well.

How long has the show been going for, you can nearly always see how

long the show's been running for.

And so I've always been like, yeah, you definitely should

check that out and approach.

But I think there are times when it's okay.

In my opinion, it's okay to sometimes do a bit of a sort of spray and pray approach

and copy and paste, like when you're just getting started and you just wanna get on

some shows and you, I don't do this with.

High, that top shows that you really love.

Mm-hmm.

Definitely give a bit more caring attention to those, but shows that

may be a bit new and things like you can do a bit of a sort of broad

approach with that and just get some experience being a guest on some shows.

And, because I ha I found as a coach as well, that I get better

at talking about what I do.

The more I do it may, maybe you found the same as well and so that's good.

Like you can treat that as, as your practice runs for the bigger shows

that you might like to get onto.

Yeah.

But at some point you've got to become a bit more intentional about it.

And that's where the sort of strategies that I think you, you are talking about.

Really matter.

Like it's much better, in my opinion, to to get more bang for you about from

being on better quality shows with the right audience than from just being on

as many shows as you can possibly get on that, that agreed to say yes to you.

Yeah, true.

I agree.

Yeah.

So, so when you're when you're applying to, to be on the show, it's really good

to get a sense of what it's all about.

It's good to have that stuff.

What have you seen that people sometimes get wrong with this as well

or don't do as well as they could do?

Well, also preparing themselves, like, I mean, just

everything that you mentioned, right?

Or also not pitching something that is relevant, right?

Like pitch a business topic to a spiritual podcast or to a health podcast,

or like really just if you do the, the Spain spring and prayer approach,

you at least should have a list.

Podcast that are at least interested in what you have to, to share, right?

Even if you're not relating to the podcast host in the first lines, and

you don't make it like personalized, then you know, make sure that it is

the, at least the right genre, right?

So if you're, if you run a business, you wanna pitch business

podcast and not spiritual podcast or health podcasts or whatever.

And then also like, not preparing themselves good enough for the

actual interview, meaning like, they are super nervous this, and

you can hear it in their voice.

Or I mean, there are strategies you can prepare yourself to be really calm.

And understand if the, if it's like the first show, it's exciting, right?

Like other people will listen to this, but yeah, I think that you should find

a way to, to prepare yourself, right?

So for me it's really listening to music jumping around

because I'm exciting, right?

I'm.

and you know, then I can bring over all the energy.

But some people, when you're really nervous, maybe it's better for you to

actually meditate or to sit down and to breathe and to, to become calmer, right?

So, yeah.

Um, yeah.

But basically you, you said everything that people.

Get wrong,

From a show host perspective that is really important.

And I speak to a lot of other show hosts, like podcasting is a big

community and we speak to each other.

And and one of the things that in a specifically interview based podcasts

will experience is that very often it can take sometimes 30 or 40 minutes for

the guests to get relaxed, enough for the conversation to have a more natural

flow for the rapport to really be there.

And that is where, that's, that's generally where the magic happens,

when things are a bit more relaxed, when people can have fun and open up

and feel connected with each other.

Mm-hmm.

and, and so sometimes it's a host, you're kind of waiting for that to

happen and, and I have had, I mean, I don't consider myself to be like

a high brow show or a top quality.

Well, I don't think I'm good quality, but you know, I'm not one of the top

podcasters in the world or anything that, as much as I'd love to be.

But I do still get people who come on the show, who have, who are fans of the show,

who apply to be guests on the show and are nervous for coming on the show because

it's something that, you know, that they've listened to and they enjoy the.

That's great.

It's really nice to hear.

Mm-hmm.

, but it's not great when you're trying to interview with them and,

and like, usually they're tense and they're struggling to come up

their answers, they feel a little bit nervous because they, no, it would be

like I, I guess me getting interviewed by Jordan Harbinger or something

like that, I'm gonna be nervous.

I would have to do some of those exercises that you talked about, because

I know that that show's going out to.

Millions of people when that comes out.

And I want to do the best job I can possibly do with that, but if I'm nervous,

I'm not gonna be able to deliver that.

So really important to, to set yourself up as best as you can.

You're, I think, doing like some vocal warmups and things

like that now, that'll help too.

Anything that helps to focus your mind a bit.

Yeah, and I mean, generally I think working on your self-confidence

and trusting yourself is a good thing for your entire business, right?

It's not only when you're a podcast or, or in the media, but also when

you talk to clients, when you get yourself out there on social media.

When you, you know, speak on stage or whatever is really like understand that

you are the expert in what you do and that you don't have to know everything.

This was, for me in the beginning, this was a really big thing.

I always thought like, oh, I'm the expert.

I need to know everything and every little detail and it's not the case.

Right?

So, basically you're an expert when you're two steps ahead of your ideal

client, and if you can share something, that is not common knowledge than you

are an expert in your field, right?

And you will grow with with your career.

I mean, I'm an entrepreneur now for eight years and comparing like Simone

from like eight years ago and Simone from now, there's like, like there

is like worlds in between of that.

Yeah, so I, I think that working on your self-confidence and really owning

your expertise is something that is really valuable for your entire

business and will also help you to be less nervous when you get on podcasts

because you know what you talk about.

You know, that what you can bring to the table.

And honestly, if people ask me something and I can't, I don't know.

I'm just saying, sorry, I don't know.

I, you know, or I take a wild guess or whatever, you know.

Well, I think one of the main reasons that people want to do

this is to build that relationship with the audience, with hopefully with

that perfect future clients even if.

with people who are going to like them or maybe refer 'em to

their perfect future clients.

And you can only really do that if you can create create a level of trust.

Mm-hmm.

, a feeling of trust.

And it doesn't, not trying to say like you trick people in trusting you.

Its more like just giving people that assurance.

And one of the best ways to do that is by being confident in what you talk about.

Mm-hmm.

, it's a human.

To want to put our trust in the people who show the most confidence, even if

they're not their most intelligent people.

Whoever.

Usually people will follow whoever shows the most confidence in a situation.

So now if you, if you were in, in an emergency situation, for example, there

might be someone who is an expert in dealing with emergencies but isn't a

confident person and someone who doesn't really have much of an idea with the

thing, but just says, Hey, go over there.

And, and you are far more likely to go with the person

who's assertive and confident.

Yeah.

And, and if you just, if you may, it just makes sense in our life.

It also makes sense in the podcasting realm as well.

Like when you're being, I.

, if you can come across with as much confidence as you can muster, then you

are going to have a much easier time.

Yeah.

Developing those trust relationships.

Absolutely.

And I mean, let, let me share a quick story because I, I think that's a, a

valuable one in regards to building trust and building confidence.

So, because I'm, now, I'm sitting here, I'm relaxed, right?

We have a conversation.

I'm, I'm confident and you know, everything.

Flowy.

It hasn't always been like that.

So, um, I grew into that.

So, when I started my first business I was working as a breakup and divorce

coach, and I, I ran a a program, right?

And in the program there were 35 people and like, so those

people paid me to work with me.

But I also had, I had a Facebook group and I promised them that

there will be Facebook Lives, right?

So I will be there live answering question.

So it was a very tiny audience.

They even paid me because they already wanted, knew they wanted to work with me.

And still, I was so nervous.

I I rented a hotel room so that I have a nice background and I was,

I couldn't sleep the night before.

I was shaking when I got on camera.

And at the end of the day it was perfect, right?

And like the, I could answer all the questions and that was for me the starting

point to build the confidence and.

Look at myself differently and trust myself more.

Right.

. So as you said, the more you do this, the more self-confident you get.

So if you're just in the very beginning, then pitch smaller podcast

shows and get yourself out there.

And but trusting yourself and owning what you do is really is really important

and you grow with it over the years

then definitely, you know, I, my first podcast as a host, I was mostly.

I had to prepare, do a lot of preparation, kind of have semis,

scripted, having, especially with guests, was having questions written

out because it was harder for me to more naturally flow into those questions.

Whereas now I have a bit of an outline of, all right, let's make sure we talk about

this, this, and this, and, and whatever else comes up in the conversation.

And we get a much.

I feel a much more natural conversation by allowing a bit more leeway on

that rather than me just reeling off questions and you just answering them.

I think it's far more interesting to listen to listen to a conversation,

but I do think one of the fears that people have around the podcast side

of things particularly is that they're gonna say the wrong thing or that

they'll mess it up or not say it quite.

and the, the vast majority of podcasts are recorded, and so, okay.

Not every podcaster edits their podcast, but most of the decent podcasters do.

And say, if you are, if you do say something that you think,

oh, I didn't quite say that.

Right.

Can I do that again?

. Mm-hmm.

, that should be fine.

And if you really do that the podcaster has to edit that.

Mm-hmm.

. They're not just gonna, they're not just gonna take that or even if they don't,

I mean, it's still, you know, it is fine to have those mistakes in there.

Nobody expects us to be perfect, and so you nearly always get another go at it.

Or if there's something that goes really wrong, the podcast hosts goal should

be to make their guest look as good as.

because you want the audience thing.

I'm bringing you the best guest, right?

Yeah.

I had a podcast show that had really wrong.

I was the.

, but, so I'm a mom to a one year old and a two year old, and I

was on the show, it was life.

My husband was at home, but I could hear both crying downstairs and screaming.

And I even through my headphones as I went, and they're not home now,

but and I was completely irritated.

I was like, what?

Okay, what, sorry, what?

What did I just say?

And so she actually had to edit the podcast.

And I, you I was really sorry about that, but that happens, right?

And it wasn't a problem.

. But yeah, also, when you say something that you're saying, it didn't come

across quite right, I even say like, okay, sorry, let me rephrase that

so that it's easier to understand.

We, that can happen, right?

You're in the conversation and when you have coffee with some somebody

you also say things and then you look at the other person and you

can see that the person didn't quite understand what you just said.

And it's like, okay, let me rephrase that, and then you just say it again, right?

So yeah I, I completely agree.

Do, do you recommend your clients to listen back to

the interviews that they do?

That

is an interesting question.

I, I actually never got asked that.

I listen back to all the interviews that I've done and I found mostly

that they are better than I've felt.

They were the first.

because we are like, we are always judging ourself.

And sometimes I get off the show and I was like, what is it?

Like, was that, was that, did I say this right?

Was this on point?

Could I say, could I have done this better?

Not always, but sometimes I have a show and I'm like, okay.

And then I listen back to the, to the show and I'm like, oh.

Oh yeah, actually, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I said it.

I said it right.

But this also comes with practice, right?

The more you get on shows.

The easier it will be for you to say what you want to say, even though you

sometimes have the impression after the show, like, did I, did I say this right?

So, yeah,

definitely.

No, I think, I think it's pretty helpful as a host.

. I know there are hosts out there who don't listen to their show back.

I, I know that, but I think they should.

I think it's remiss not to if you're, especially if you're a host, because

you should at least be editing it or at least listening to the edited version

and approving it before it goes live.

But I did an interview with a professor and we were talking about

stories, and it is not that long ago.

And the episode's up there for anyone who has listened, but I was really

worried about, . And then when I went and listened back to it I really

just thought that I was, I felt after my depth in the interview, like

he's really super intelligent guy talking about all this really sort

of clever stuff about storytelling.

And it was like, yeah, that's great, . I didn't really, didn't

really have too much to add.

I normally have a lot to add to the conversation.

that time I didn't.

But then when I went and listened back to it, Actually was a lot.

He wasn't nearly as bad as I thought.

And I thought, oh yeah, that's actually great.

We can publish that.

And he definitely looks great.

I'm maybe not shining as much as I would've hoped, but it's fine.

But listening back to my own interviews, I think that's really

important as well, and I do it.

I listen to shows that I go onto as much as possible because I

want to see how I'm showing up.

I want to get a sense of.

And again, it may depend on how the host edits the show, but if you are

doing a lot of umming and ahhing, or if you are if there are things that

you're saying and think, oh, maybe there's a better way to say that I think

it's important to look back and think.

Are you saying anything that's memorable?

Already giving very long-winded answers that that people

are gonna get a bit lost in.

And so you want to have as much of those things as possible, I

think to be a great podcast guest.

If you wanna be remembered, then I have, I sometimes have guests who come on

the show who, , who are, I don't always publish the interviews, but but sense

I give the most long-winded answers.

It's like they, they've come on the show to give a present.

Rather than to have an interview or a conversation.

And it's I get that and that's probably what they've been doing with all the

other podcasts that go out there.

But it's not great to listen to, you know, if I want the TED Talk, I'll go some Ted.

But when I listen to, when I listen to a podcast, do generally want to

hear, yeah, some interview stuff, but some back and forth as well.

I want to hear from the host because I'm not listening to

the show, just for the guest.

I'm listening to the show because I like the host as.

And I think some guests forget that, that the audience are there

for the host, not for the guests.

Yes.

I totally agree.

I absolutely agree.

So, and looking at what you just said and coming back to your question, if

I recommend my clients to listen to that, I would also definitely recommend

them to, to listen to it, to actually, especially in the beginning, you know,

maybe if you like on a lot of podcasts, like further along down the, like the

road and you're more experienced and it's not button super necessary, but in

the beginning when you just start out.

That's probably very helpful for them to actually say like, okay I did great there.

And also to feel okay if it wasn't that great and to ask yourself, okay, what

can I actually improve for the next time?

Yeah, absolutely.

That super important.

You know, I used to do public speaking training.

I still do a little bit here and there, but.

in presentation skills and public speaking training.

It's really important to get people to watch video of themselves back or

to at least hear audio of themselves back because there's stuff you pick

up on that you do that you won't pick up on unless you know, might get the

feedback from someone else, but it's not quite the same as like getting the

feedback and then seeing it for yourself.

And so, so yeah, it's worth having those sorts of reviews and, and checking how

you, how you are appealing to each other.

Do, do you generally recommend your clients to put

together media kits as well?

Because I, I think it's one of those things that's a good thing to have.

Yes,

I do.

And sometimes I do it for them.

So when you.

And it doesn't really matter if it's for the media, if it's for the podcast.

But I find it very helpful to have an overview of one or two pages of the guest,

like, you know, the bio, the core topics of impact, and maybe what is your mission?

Like, what are you up to?

Why, what is your why?

And for Podcast hosts I always recommend a section that, that has

the questions that I would like to be asked because podcast host always

have to think about questions, right?

So, and, and they don't necessarily have to take them, but you can help them.

You can inspire them, or they, you know, they, sometimes they take them one-on-one,

sometimes they don't take them at all.

But for me it's always, and it doesn't matter if it's media or podcast sales,

I always tell my clients it is, if you wanna be successful with podcasting and

getting into the media, it's your job to make their life as easy as possible.

So if you are a pain from the beginning, right?

And you make the podcast, I was ask you a lot of questions

like, can you send me this?

Can you send, and then you sent the wrong thing and there

was a lot of back and forth.

This is like, we are all busy and like, especially the bigger the

show, the more precise everything has to be like in the, I mean, it,

it should be from the beginning, but if you start with very small shows,

it's okay to have this back and forth to learn what is actually needed.

But the bigger the show, the busier the people and then you have to be on point.

And if you put together one or two pages, About yourself and you sent

this as a link, please, not as an attachment because like those are very

big and they just spam the email inbox.

Just upload it to whatever your Google Drive, Dropbox and say like,

Hey, here is my media kit, and then the host can download it or not.

Right?

But that at least you offer something that helps them to

have everything in an overview.

Yeah.

You know, I, I would say as a host, it's not something that I think you

have to have, but I do generally think when a, when a guest does

have that, it looks a damn site more professional than when they don't.

And I said they, it makes me, shows me that they're really prepared and

that they, as you said, they've made my life easier because I don't have to

do too much effort on, on researching, learn and looking

up and getting the social media links and all that kind of stuff.

Mm-hmm.

, which, which is just very handy.

It's all in one place and you, and, and you can access it and for doing

show notes and stuff like that, which hosts, again, not every host

does them, but for most good hosts do show notes for the show as well.

And, and having a media kid is really going to help with that.

There, there is an important thing we do need to address for people who maybe

haven't done this before and haven't even thought about perhaps applying to

podcasts, but thinking maybe I should do this as a way to get a bit more

publicity, generate some interest, some leads, maybe get some, maybe

you'll get some client bookers from it.

How do you go about finding those shows and then before you even get the pitch

in, then where, where do you look?

Well, there are different strategies, right?

You can, simply Google business podcasts and look for the best

100, and then you can go through.

, you can also, what I highly recommend is like, is there one podcast show that

you really love and that you really know that your ideal client is on there?

Then go to them open, open it in the iTunes store, and then

underneath you can see other shows.

So, or like other shows that people also listen.

Then you can see, okay, what other shows does actually your

ideal client also listen to?

And then you can basically go down the entire rabbitt hole, right?

So, but I always, that's always the strategy that I recommend to start out.

Because like where would you start otherwise, right.

So most of the people come to me say, okay, I really love this podcast.

I really would love to be featured on that one.

And typically they are bigger ones, right?

So not the ones that you sought.

. And it's a good place to start with this strategy because there you find also

the smaller ones, the medium sized ones, and also the really big ones, right?

So the ones that you really only pitch when you have more experience,

when you also grow your business a little bit and then you're

not, when you're not a beginner.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I, I tended mostly to use to use the podcast matching apps and, and groups.

For this.

So, you know, one of the, one of the best ones that I've used and, and I've

had the creator on the show before is PodMatch as a Alex Sanfilippo at PodMatch.

And I find, you know, as, as a host who wants expert guests and wants

people to really have a, a clue about what they're doing, that is.

. That tends to be one of the places where I get connected

with a lot of my best guests.

But sometimes I uh, you know, some, some of the best applications I get are

people who've actually found my show.

Much like what you're saying.

They've checked out, they've checked through some things, or maybe they've

even been recommended to the show or maybe they've listened to other similar kinds of

shows or been on similar shows and they've actually been looking for the shows that

are talking about those kinds of topics because things like the genres that shows

generally get listed in are very, and so it could still be hard to find the kinds

of shows that are suited to you because I don't think there's, I don't think there's

too much point in going on many shows that

aren't targeting the kind or at least likely to have the

kinds of people that you want to connect with in their audience.

Sometimes it can be like I, I don't think there's any harming

going on some shows that are just for, for you to have some fun.

But again, you do.

I think you do have to think about your professional image.

You do have to think about it.

Does that fit with what you have been projecting to other shows

and to, as, as who you are.

So you can't be too self-indulgent.

I, I got, I talk mentioned a few times, I've got invited to go on a show where

people talk about a time that they broke the law and I'm thinking, Okay.

I could see that that could actually be an interesting conversation and

I, I would love to, it'd be fun, but it really doesn't fit with what I'm

about or, or what, what I'm doing, sir, or what I'm doing professionally.

So I think it would be very indulgent to go on that show and could actually

be a little bit damaging to my brand.

I mean, I don't know that it would be, I don't know that.

Okay.

But in terms of thinking, well, am I gonna be getting value from my time?

It's like you do have to.

Is that the right kind of show for you to go on?

Are you gonna be getting the kinds of leads that you want to get to?

Nothing wrong with going on podcasts for fun, that's absolutely fine.

But your brand is a part of this too.

And so you do have to project a brand image out there as well and make sure

you're clear on what that is, right?

Yeah, exactly.

That's what I said in the beginning.

You need to understand what you want to be known for, and part of that is

also that you appear on podcast shows

that actually cover what you talk about, right?

I mean, I can easily go on other podcast shows and talk about how to survive

divorce easier, what you need to, you know, think about and like legal

stuff and all these kind of things.

But this is not, I don't run this business anymore.

I used to do this of course, because podcast was also a big part of that.

And I sometimes still get approached for that topic, but I'm, you know, I'm

still like, okay, you know, I grow my PR business, I help other people with pr.

I don't do the divorce and breakup thing anymore.

And for that reason, I don't go on podcasts.

And talk about that because then people will find me.

And then, I mean, I had a lot of success with, with my first business and because

I also shared my personal story there because my ex left me after 10 years

relationship completely out of the blue.

Shared my story and that, you know, connected with people and then they

connect with me and then I have to tell them, Hey, look, I don't run this

business anymore, but if you are in need of pr, you know, I can help you.

And like that, it just doesn't fit.

And, and I mean, get it going on a podcast, which is about

a time when you broke the law.

, well, you know, could be fun, could be damaging.

You never know, right?

So . Yeah.

Right.

So I mean, why, why, why take the risk in that sense?

Yeah.

And yeah, the same as like, no, I, I wouldn't, like the same reason I wouldn't

have guests who, I don't particularly.

If, I don't think, if I think somebody's kind of practicing

unethically or, or a bit of a, a sort of charlatan in the space, I'm

not gonna bring them onto my show.

And I'm not gonna name names here, but you know, I, I have been approached

by some of those people before to, to be guests on my show, nor

would I want to be on their shows.

I actually don't want the association at all with people who I just don't feel.

Now the thing about.

It matters who you were such shit with.

It matters who you're connected with.

Yeah.

And I know some people will maybe do that for the, for the controversy, for

the clicks and, and for sort of rattling people as well, but I don't generally

think that that works as a, as strategies or being contrarian or controversial.

That all reflects to your brand.

Like sometimes it works, right?

Sometimes you know, one, one strategy that I teach my clients to pitch

the media actually is about having a controversial opinion saying, Why

everybody should suffer from hard at least once in their lifetime.

What was one topic that I pitched a lot, A lot got picked up a lot because

it's controversial and you have to read it twice, but you always have to

understand and think about, okay, what, like how does it reflect on my brand?

How does it present my brand?

And, and do you actually want that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think you have to, I think it's good to have some strong opinions, but it's,

it's interesting that I've been seeing somebody recently who I, who I really like

and, and admire, but he, he does these, some of these kind of rants and sometimes

I think they're a little bit mean.

Mm-hmm.

, but I, I kind of, there's part of me that really respects that

he takes a really strong stance.

Mm-hmm.

an opinion on that.

And I think, yeah, people are going to see that.

But there's another part of me that thinks, I dunno if I would want to work

with him because he comes, he comes off, it comes off arrogant and I don't know if

he knows that it comes off as arrogant.

Mm-hmm.

and, uh, so there's, there's all that kind of thing.

I think some strong opinions are good, but certainly not close

mindedness, but not being contrarian for the sake of it, or controversial.

Yeah.

Just just for like click for the clicks.

Yeah.

. Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, some good strong opinions, some notes, some

things that ruffle may ruffle.

A few feathers are great, so long as they are actually your opinion.

Mm-hmm.

and hold truth to them.

But, you know, people worry a lot about being canceled and stuff like that.

I think it's a lot less likely than people.

Mm-hmm.

really imagine.

But you know, it's about authenticity.

It's about being true to yourself.

And I think that's, that's one important stuff.

, are there any other things that you think really help people in terms of

maybe standing out as podcast guests?

I, we talked about sort of not being mumbly or monotone and things like

that, but what, what do you think really helps people to stand out?

Well, to stand out?

Is it, uh, like for, for the, like in terms of the podcast host

is really like, uh, relate to the podcast host, build rapport.

Say their name, right and that you appreciate the, the show.

Offer them a media kit or podcast kit, how I call it and make

their life as easy as possible.

And as a guest.

Like be, you know, be authentic.

Like, like be easy to talk to.

And also, uh, Have a standpoint, right?

And, and at bonus points, if you have a, a framework, which I have, but we

didn't talk about this in particular.

But if you have a framework that you can actually present to an audience

and say like, okay, this, these are the steps that people have to take, then

you know, that's that is great as well.

and, you know, yeah.

Like your six point process that you mentioned earlier, that kind of thing.

Well, we talked about the first, first four steps, so, but,

you know, so it's but, but it's also easy because then you can you can also

outline the value that the listener has say like, Hey, this is what I do.

This is actually my framework or my process, my method,

however you wanna call it.

And then you also, you know, have a little bit that, that.

The steps, and then you can put the flesh around it as it goes in the conversation.

So now we covered the first four.

Of my process, and it was a great conversation.

Right?

So, yeah that's what I, what I typically recommend.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would definitely recommend as a host leaving a review for the podcast as well.

Mm-hmm.

, and let them know that you've left it because reciprocity

is a very powerful thing.

Hmm.

But of course, no, leave them a nice review.

If you want to be on the show, that's gonna, that's gonna

make the bigger difference.

It doesn't, A lot of people think that reviews help podcasts grow.

They, they don't, but they do give more credibility.

They do give that trust factor as well.

So it's very helpful to podcast hosts.

And it's also a bit of, bit of ego massage for us as well.

And none of us object to it.

None of us object to that.

You, you do have a, a giveaway, an ebook that people can check out.

Can you tell us a little bit about

that?

Yes.

So I have an ebook with 10 insider tips on how to get publicity if

we are coaching our consulting.

and it's basically you know, 10 things that people generally don't

know about media and podcast shows.

Some we covered, some we didn't yet.

It's very valuable as I think it's 18 pages.

And I basically gave away what I learned the last 20 plus years.

That's the time that I'm in the PR and media industry.

and yeah, if you wanna download it, you can find it on

simonesauter.com/insider tips.

Yep.

So links will be in the show notes for you to go and download your copy of that.

I know I'm gonna be getting my version of that as well, because I want to

know how to improve my publicity if there's one thing you hope that

people remember the most or take away from this particular conversation,

what do you hope that that would be?

That they need, that they, it's their job to make

the life as easy as possible.

The life of the

podcast host and also the journalist if you pitch to media.

. That is basically your job.

If you

make, if you do this, and if you show that you if you take your efforts and

then if you show that you really want to support the podcast host or the

journalist I think you really stand out because a lot of people don't do that.

And also work on your self-confidence.

It'll help you in your business generally.

Simone, it is been a wonderful conversation.

I've learned a lot from you.

I know I'm gonna be going as soon as we finished speaking, going

and downloading your ebook on how to get multiple publicity.

But I just wanna say a big thank you for coming and being on the show.

It's been wonderful speaking to you.

Thanks so much

for having me, and I love the conversation.

So now you know why you should be getting featured in

prestigious magazines and on podcasts, and we've given you some how to.

We covered some strategy for finding the places to be featured and what you

need to make sure you have ready to go before you do and a few bits more, you

can get some more great information from Simone with her 10 insider tips

to get publicity for your business and some other great information by

following the link in the show notes.

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