Do you want to unlock your team’s full potential?

In the latest episode of the Happier at Work podcast I had an insightful conversation with Darrin Tulley, a fractional CPO and passionate advocate for embracing curiosity, diversity, and the power of unlocking individual potential in the workplace.

Darrin shares his transformative journey, highlighting the profound impact of going beyond surface-level interactions and tapping into people's passions and interests. By fostering an environment where diversity of thought and inclusiveness thrive, Darrin observed remarkable breakthroughs in innovation and teamwork, a testament to the extraordinary potential that lies within each individual when given the chance to contribute authentically.

Darrin's emphasis on aligning company values with employee values and recognizing the changing societal values prompts a timely reflection on the importance of embracing diversity and aligning with shared purpose in shaping exceptional outcomes at work. His commitment to helping others unlock their potential, find joy, and make a difference illustrates the powerful impact of a purpose-driven, inclusive workplace culture.

With an unwavering belief in the joy of helping others and the significance of living with curiosity and wonder, Darrin's approach to leadership and fostering psychological safety resonates deeply in today's ever-evolving workplace landscape.

If you're seeking inspiration to create a more inclusive, innovative, and purpose-driven workplace culture, this episode is not to be missed. 

The main points throughout this podcast include:

• The impact of going beyond surface-level interactions and tapping into people's passions and interests.
• The extraordinary potential that lies within each individual when given the chance to contribute authentically.
• Emphasis on aligning company values with employee values.
• The powerful impact of a purpose-driven, inclusive workplace culture.
• The significance of living with curiosity and wonder.

Connect with Darrin

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ignitehappy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrintulley/ and https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignite-happy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/IgniteHappy

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ignitehappy/

YouTube: https://youtube.com/@ignitehappy426?si=LbrUKLHw-Y8CgUgg

Website: www.ignitehappy.com

Do you have any feedback or thoughts on this discussion? If so, please connect with Aoife via the links below and let her know. Aoife would love to hear from you!

Connect with Happier at Work host Aoife O’Brien:

Website: https://happieratwork.ie 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aoifemobrien/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/happieratwork.ie/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/happieratwork.ie

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HappierAtWorkHQ

Twitter: https://twitter.com/HappierAtWorkHQ 

Darren, you're so welcome to the Happier at Work podcast. I know we had kind of an almost accidental meeting. We connected on LinkedIn. We had a really great conversation a few months ago. And now we're here doing a podcast swap. So I'm really excited to have you on the Happier at Work podcast today. Do you want to let listeners know a little bit about you, your background, and how you got into what you're doing today?

Yes. It's so happy to be here and be part of your podcast and and love it love what you're doing and, honored to be here. Happy to be part of it. And, I gotta tell you this. The journey that I've been on has been pretty wild. I'm sure we all have our own stories. Right? So, You know, for me, gosh, I've been in corporate America for around 30 years or so, and I was in financial services working for start up companies 2, Fortune 100 companies here in the in the US, and I got to this place where I wanted to do something different. And, I ended up starting my own consulting practice, and, now I'm a fractional c CPO, which is a chief people officer, Out doing speaking engagements on purpose, on joy, on possibilities, on inclusion, try to help people Really excel in life and unlock potential.

And, you know, that's essentially what I'm doing with the podcast too. I'm just trying to help people live their possible, live their best life, see the light that's inside of all of us and, really see, you know, see see the beauty in all of us. I think there's so much potential, and I don't think I was seeing that for the 1st 25 years or so. But the last 7 years, I've been pretty enlightened.

Yeah. Can you talk can you talk a bit more about the catalyst? I know you shared this with me before, but I'd love for listeners to understand a little bit more about what drove that change.

Well, I didn't realize there there are many moments yet there in particular, there are a couple moments. You know, 1, I was actually, At an immersion event, which was a diversity inclusion event, when I was working at a company at a Fortune 100 company, and The a bunch of leaders were getting together. There there's 25 people together for this 4 day event, and it was a diverse group. I was one of 5 white males as an example. And I thought I was, like, one of the good guys. I thought I was one of the good leaders. I thought, you know, I was fun and respected People have brought the best out of people. I mean, my purpose at the time was I'm gonna bring in the best out of people all around me.

What I recognize is that, Over those 4 days, after a couple days, I recognized that I was not living out my purpose. I was not, bringing out the best in people. In fact, I was pushing people away.

Mhmm.

And I didn't realize that until I heard folks share their stories And how hard it was and and how difficult it was and how people were looked at or how they were, overlooked Or how they were, mistreated or or not involved. So maybe they were not, part of the job opportunity or passed over. Maybe they were pulled over We're in a town right next door just because of the way they look, or maybe because they they were looked at just because they're A different gender in a different way, inappropriate way. And the the things that people are sharing today, I can't believe it's still existing. Right? So at that time, When I heard all these things, I'm like, oh my god. I'm not paying attention. I'm not I'm not taking the time to notice. And what I recognized at the time, I was actually not doing my part To actually bring out the best in people to bring out the best in all people.

Right? So I as I said, my purpose was to bring out, the best in everybody that's around me. The the reality is I was actually in this bubble. Mhmm. And I kinda chose who was in my bubble, so it was a bubble of sameness, And I wasn't looking for differences enough. I wasn't accepting the beauty in all of us as I should, and that's when I I basically broke down on the 2nd day. And it was this awakening where, I stepped in front of this group and and shared that I recognized that I had some unconscious biases I was unaware of. And it was so uncomfortable to share this. And I was shaking, and I was I was I was, emotional, not looking for sympathy.

Just sharing that I need to be a better human. And and I thought I was one of the One of the better leaders. Good people.

Yeah.

And I'm sitting there going, I'm gonna commit to making a change. And and people I could when I looked in people's eyes, I could tell people were mixed. People are looking at me with frustration, looking at me with maybe doubt of, you know, why is he being emotional? Is it a deflection? Because I don't cry at work. Like, I never thought you could cry at work Yeah. Or share emotions, just give you an example. Right? Yeah. And And then as I was kept looking and kept committing, I could see people were turning to be more alive and, you know, the people that I was pushing down actually picked me up. It was that moment where my bubble of sameness turned into bubble of difference, and it expanded my my world wide open.

I thought I was, like, Struggling and I was done and I was caught. I was found. And the reality is I actually opened my eyes and my heart in a different way, and and I committed to to doing things differently. I even have this pink pen always talk about like, I I had a pink pen at this conference and at this immersion event. And, like, I I said I need to I need an accountability reminder look for differences, and this is one thing. I'm gonna be a white male leader in a Fortune 100 company that's gonna use a pink pen to sign contracts, write thank you notes, write left notes, whatever. And it's really it's it's opened my eyes to just expand my thinking. And so I changed my purpose from Bring out the best in people to actually unleash the light that's in everybody.

Mhmm.

Doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, And I need to do that because there's a beauty inside of all excuse me. I'm gonna restate that. There's a beauty inside of all of us That's filled with light, with joy, with love, and it's now my purpose to bring that out. So I I reckon Recognize that I went from point of unconsciousness to now I'm unconscious now being aware that I need to continuously do better, and that's what I'm doing. Yeah. No matter where I am, if I'm doing a speaking event, if I'm coaching or, as a consultant, or if I'm doing the podcast episode With you or with my podcast, I I just wanna bring out the best because we all have so much more to give. Not to say we're not enough, yet There's so much light to share in the world that I think if we do that oh my gosh. Could you imagine

Yeah. What that

would look like? We could all see better. We could all see the The beauty, not the flaws.

Yeah. I love that. I'd love to come back, Darren, to you were saying that you kinda saw it as our mission to bring the best out in people. That you thought that you're one of the good guys. What kind of things were you doing to do that? And and maybe what were some of the things that you've realized you weren't doing?

Yeah. I I I always feel like I was engaging with, you know, the teams and people, and I would always say hello and stop to checking in people. You know, when I said hi and said how are you, I would actually listen. I wouldn't just keep walking because I think that happens a lot in the world. Yeah. I don't think I I think it was kinda at the surface level. And I realized that I wasn't going deep enough to see what's inside of people, and and, you know, some people might have different backgrounds to where they went to School, or to their their current skill sets or to what they're currently training or what their current jobs are. When I start to move aside from that And ask people what they're passionate about, what they love to do, people lit up.

That's when I realized people could do anything. And when I started to accept that and Start to encourage people to step into that with me, into the unknown. People surprised me more than I could ever ever have imagined. And I was somebody that was, like, a forecaster in the business. I was someone that could see the future with our teams, and I what I didn't see is the potential in the people that are standing right in front of And when I started to change in in one of the practices as an example, and this doesn't look good at all on me because I I had hired, before I went through this awakening, I'd hired 3 people that are very similar to me. Backgrounds, gender, well, you know, white males. Great guys, great people. We had great results together as a team.

Thought similarly. Nothing against these these fine gentlemen. What what happened is over the next 10 hires, I hired 8 folks that were, more diverse in gender in ethnicity. And when I did that, the team changed. Our our thinking changed. Our innovation changed. Our ability to reach out to the full 1700% organization change. Like, we work together to be able to actually transform an organization from a 3rd quartile, like, rating to a top decile in 12 months Because we were working cohesively and more openly and more objectively, and we were accepting each other's strengths and And the opportunities together.

And, and I stepped I kinda stepped back. Instead of having the answers, there was a lot more curiosity, a lot more open mindedness, a lot more love, You know, a lot more ability to share emotions.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

To share more joy. You know, I think I was probably a little bit more uptight. Not probably. I was a lot more uptight. So those kind of exchange, like my hiring practices, who I would network. Like, I would go out to the University of UConn or excuse me, University of Connecticut. I'd go to, University of Massachusetts or University of Hartford or Sienna where I went to, and I would go with a different purpose to network. I would go Meet people that were not like me.

Yeah.

Nothing against people that were similar to me. But guess what? We're all unique anyway. However, I made a different effort. When I did that, It was amazing. The cultures and the people and the the backgrounds and the excitement and the passion. It just opened up the like, the whole world opened up. Yeah. That's like that's part of, like, my logo for my show, my book, and my website is this one eyed smile.

Like, I was in this bubble, and then I expanded out. And as I invited the world in, everything just up to this amazing set of possibilities. Not just for me, but for everybody around us.

Yeah.

We welcome each other. We invited each other in to get involved and do different things together. And that's when the magic happens.

Yeah. No. I love that. And there's so much that I want to pick up on from what you've talked right. There's 2 things that stand out to me in particular. The first one is this idea that people light up when you ask them what they're passionate about. So you might be thinking a particular way about a particular person because of the role that they have in the organization. And you kinda think that, well, that's what they do, rather than really truly understand them as a human.

So and and I suppose linked to that, I'd love to understand more about what you think when it comes to that and unleashing people's potential at work beyond what it is that they're currently doing by talking to them about what they're passionate about, what they really care about.

How to go about doing that? You're you're asking it's you know, it's There's not a there's not a manual. I'm sure there's probably tons of books and documents on how to do it. Here's the reality. Be human. Mhmm.

You know,

how how do we step into our conversation when we ask a question and we listen, and then we ask a follow-up to understand that more. And then we we step in with an open mind to understand where is this coming from, and we connect it to something they're passionate about. We we listen with curiosity. Mhmm. And it's too often we jump in and say, oh, yeah. I did that. Or, oh, yeah. You know, I you when I was at this place, I went over and did this.

I went to school and oh, yeah. So and so. It's like no. Like, even it's like you and me. Right? We're gonna chat. I wanna hear what's exciting to you, what's frustrating to you, what's getting in the way. Like, a question a good question to ask somebody is, hey, what does a good day look like for you?

Oh, that's a powerful question.

Know What are you passionate about, and how can we bring that into what that day that good day looks like? Yeah. Or are there some skills that we could skill you up on that That you care about. I I made a big change after this awakening. I stopped asking people to go to develop and build up their skills based on their job. I I suggested and encouraged people, develop something you're excited about, that you're passionate about, That's gonna help you live your life differently, maybe expanding your job differently or getting to another job differently that you're you're passionate about. I get I got so many interesting looks from HR folks and leaders. Like, you're doing what? But you know what happened? People's minds expanded. Mhmm.

They got excited about this. They then figured out how to apply it to what they're working on. They applied it to innovation.

Yeah,

We we innovated the way we did work in ways again, our our technology teams couldn't figure it out after 1,000,000 of dollars of thinking And idolizing and brain you know, brainstorming, all the I we had a small team that actually just broke Through all all the red tape, they broke through all the things that were stopping us from actually developing certain things. But why? Because they actually got passionate. They cared. They Care for each other. They worked as a team. They developed skills they didn't think they had or that they maybe weren't capable of getting to because they were kind in this other job. So people opened up their world

Yeah.

In a different way. And then people just surprised me. Like, you got Yeah. The more I step back, the better people did. So I I don't know how I kinda know how to take that personally, but but you know, we gotta gotta go play.

Person who's bringing them together and taking them on that journey. So no. That's thought it's really incredible. And having heard so many different anecdotes, let's say, about innovation and how important innovation is and how important diversity is for innovation. This is the first time I think that I've had a real conversation with someone who's been in that situation, who's made that change and it has had a direct impact on the organization. So thank you so much for sharing that.

Yeah. I I appreciate you asking. I mean, it's I'm definitely putting myself out there. It's, you know, it's it's a vulnerable story, and I, You know, I've I I get mixed reactions with different people. Some people will say we need more people like you talking about this and kinda getting conscious with With, not getting it right and being okay with it. Meaning, like, my heart had to open up to say, oh my god. I'm not doing it the right way, and I need you to expand and and accept that and then and then do something about it. Like, I needed to scale up.

I needed to go Learn. You know, I I couldn't just ask people, hey. What could I do? It's like, what people wanna hear, what I've learned is people want you to take initiative. So I I, you know, I went back and reading a bunch of books. I start asking tentatively asking with curiosity to say, I would love to learn more about your culture. I wanna know what I'm missing. I'd love to expand On on what, you know, what what our differences are so we could actually discover, new things and how we work together and innovate in new ways. Because what I recognize is that when we bring in differences, we're adding to our knowledge or we're replacing our knowledge to make it better.

So we can discover. We can explore. We can actually innovate. We get creative.

Yeah.

These are things that I think have been lost in the workplace Because we're so busy doing and we gotta do what we're told. We gotta get it done and we don't have enough time to think and be creative. It's that acceptance of difference and inclusiveness, which is an act. It's not a bad word. It's an act of bringing in knowledge and information to make us better. The growth mindset is that all day long. Sometimes we take in something and we replace knowledge. Sometimes we take it and make something bigger and better.

Yeah. Yeah. And if I'm are understanding what you're saying correctly. And this kind of admission that maybe I'm not doing it the right way. Maybe there's a different way to do it out here. But the answers are not out there. The answers are within, and it's through self reflection. And you can use books as guides just maybe open your mind a little bit, but really the answer is gonna come from within yourself.

Would that be fair to say?

Absolutely. I mean, it's to me, we're You know, we it's all about connection. Mhmm. It's all about connection. If you think about you pick any buzzword or any emotional word, Yeah. How does it resonate to you? How does it resonate to me? How does it resonate to our the audience here? It's what's what you know, that light I talk about, it's what What holds your love holds your happiness, it holds your creativity, your ability to be imaginative, your your desire to live with wonder. And, like, for me, living with wonder is transcendent joy because it works we're we're actually accepting the fact that I might not know everything. I might not see everything exactly right.

And I might have to say I don't know, or I might have to step into the unknown and say what could be. Because even the word wonder, I I love playing with this word a little bit because I I think part of my career, my life, you know, I wondered with skepticism Or doubt or kinda looking at someone said, I wonder what they're up to. And now now I've shifted to, I wonder wonder what could be or I wonder I wonder what that light is inside for them. I wonder what we could do together. We know what I'm doing. I'm leaving my Requirement to be right. I'm leaving my knowledge to say I don't have it just right. I wanna get it right.

I'm I'm leaving things behind, but I'm okay with that now. If I'm vulnerable enough to share with you, I had I had unconscious biases that, you know what, I'm always working on and getting better at In a committee to to really love a b individual and to bring out the joy and and creativity of anybody we know so they can live their possible. You know, that's my commitment, and that's a journey. Right? It's never gonna stop. And with that with that commitment, I just feel like When we live wondrously, we live with curiosity.

Yes. That's exactly

the word that goes

down is curiosity. So having this curiosity that kind of infiltrates all parts of your life, let's say. But something else you were saying about, like, leaving your requirement to be right. One of my mentors many years ago said to me, it's more important to be helpful than to be right. So sometimes people get on the defensive and they'll give people what they ask for as kind of almost a I know this is not what you need, but this is what you've asked me for. So I'm just gonna give you what you've asked for rather than thinking, how can I be helpful in this situation and try and uncover what they're really looking for and help them to get it what it is that they need rather than giving them what they've asked for?

Totally. I totally agree with that. And it and it takes a little courage to understand and accept and to not have to be right or wrong, because guess what? Our world is so divisive right now.

Yes.

We're constantly feeding our ability or need to have an answer right away, to back it up, not admit we're wrong, not ask for help. 0 on. It's politics aid. Politic you know, be it's like, stop. Yeah. If we get it slowed down and say, Wait. I wanna get it right.

Yeah.

Can we just learn a little bit? I wanna hear more about your perspective and and kinda work through this together.

Yeah.

And we're gonna lean in a better place. It could be again, it could be governments that are going back and forth. Like, there's It's just, you know, unfortunate. There's so many people that actually defend themselves to a degree that it goes too far. You know, that's in the workplace to what we're seeing across the world. Right? With conflict. Yeah. And it's these human behaviors that I think if we could all dial it back and just, like, what do we really want if we really understand it? And if it's Self preservation and our egos that we're talking about, then that's gonna be tough.

We got but we gotta let those go away because that's getting in the way.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We gotta, you know, check our emotions and not react with emotions, but respond with what we really want, in a different way. And this level of, You know, curiosity to me, it's a it's a it's such an it's such a technique in any situation. Like, Thinking about what this means when you're in a situation where you don't agree or you're at odds, it's like, well, help me understand. Like, ask a question. Like, help me understand How you got here. Help me understand what's going on for you. Help me understand what a good day looks like. Or, hey, I'm curious about your background.

I'm curious about Your passion here, I'm curious to learn because I don't know and I'd love to learn more together, like, just just different ways. And I often talk about open mind and curiosity together. They're like, open mindedness is you're willing to hear it.

Mhmm.

Then I say the curiosity is you're willing to do something with it.

Okay. Yes.

You're at you're willing to actually change your perspective or make it better and enhance it or to change what you know or let go what you thought you knew. Because so many times we walk in a relationship or we go into a conversation or when we walk by somebody, we pass judgment subconsciously passing judgment into forming What we say and how we look and what we do. So it's so it's slowing down. When we get curious, We're slowing down to actually look for what's in front of us. We're getting conscious again. We're actually thinking about, I wonder how that person ticks. I wonder I wonder what they're passionate about. I wonder what they care about.

I wonder how I can help them have a great day. Some of this is repetitive, yet guess what? This is a pattern of our day. We live so much of our day subconsciously, which is kinda scary. Like, there's times where I'm driving down the road, and I'm like, how did I get here?

Yeah.

Thank God my subconscious brain knows how to drive. Yep. If you dial it back, like, how many times have I looked somebody the wrong way? How many times have I said the wrong thing? How many times did I not say the right thing? Meaning, to engage in conversation and show up somebody that I actually care.

Yeah. Yeah. This whole concept of caring at work is coming up a lot for me recently. I think it's it's so so important. Darren, I'd love to come back bring you back to the second thing that kind of occurred to me earlier when we were talking. And this is when you were doing your recruitment and you were saying, initially, you're like you were bringing in people who were like you. And if I'm kinda thinking about the recruitment process, you might have been thinking consciously or unconsciously that this is someone I'd love to go for a beer with. This is someone whose company I would enjoy.

And therefore, you hire people who are like you. For me, from all of the research that I've done, from what I understand about organizations and psychology, the really important thing is to find people whose values align with the organization. So that you're bringing a team together and you're really focused on the important things that you have a shared kind of value system. But then, you know, the challenge with that sometimes is you bring people and they're they're very similar. But what I love about what you've done is it's the diversity of thought. So for me, the crucial thing here is bringing in diverse thinking. People who've gone to a different school, maybe have a different background. They don't have experience in that sector, in that industry, whatever it might be.

But the importance of bringing in those diverse practice on on that diversity of thought. Anything to share around that, around the values piece, around the the kind of diversity of thinking?

Yeah. I mean, the values piece, I think, is really important because we all have different values, different beliefs. And when I think about values, it's it's how we're how we're living, how we're working, how we're participating, how we're contributing In ways that show up. You know, if we live if we have a value and we live it, it should be explicit. You know, as we think about how people describe us, Hopefully, people understand where I'm coming from with the values that I bring. And if I'm working with a company and if anybody Listings has values at your company. And I would take a look at those values and say, how do how do you how do you, how do your values line up? Yeah. And maybe talk about that with, you know, your manager, your leader, or with your folks, your teams, and, like, personally, how to connect the dots.

Because I would even step back just to ask companies or folks in the community, even at schools, like, let's ask What are the values that people really care for right now? Because our our society is changing so quickly. Values are changing too. And I I do believe that we have some core ones, personally. Yeah. There are some some that I think are, I'll say they're bridges to how we how we carry out our day. Like, how we act, how we how we contribute in other ways. Like So I think it's important for companies and and groups to ask people what their values are. So I think it's so I think it's instrumental.

I think without it, without understanding what that is, It we lack the passion and the, the, inspiration, if you will. Because I think we could motivate people by telling them, hey. Go do this because The difference to me is when we actually connected to something bigger like a value or a purpose, like why we exist, that's inspiration. Especially if I'm connected it to it with you personally, that's inspiration because I'm connected emotionally. My heart's there with my mind, with my soul. I'm gonna give it up my all. You know, going back to, like, hip helping people develop. If people are developing something they're excited about, they're passionate about, And we have this vision to actually innovate and change how we communicate to our customers And our people with data and information so they could have more intelligence.

So it's not just info. It turns into ways of act actions. Doesn't matter how you get there. But, yeah, people want to do it because you've sparked this inspiration to them about these common purpose and value points That they're gonna go after it. And the diversity of thought and thinking to your other part of the question, that's what makes this work.

Yeah.

Because we're inviting everybody to say, here's here's what we're trying to solve. Do we agree with that? Do we agree how we're gonna work together with values and operating principles, if you will? And then for all on the same page, now we have alignment. Now that we have alignment, we have clarity to what we're doing, and we respect everybody's perspective and everybody's thoughts are invited in, We shouldn't be that hard. It is. It's extremely hard.

It is.

I mean, I've witnessed it on both sides. I made it hard in the past, but now I'm I'm inviting with curiosity try to get it right back to those points. Yeah. Diversity of thought is what has made everything better. Like, I would say we achieved 80% Of what was possible without it, and then we probably achieved a 100 and I don't know, almost 150%. Like, we we surpassed expectations Yeah. Once we got a diversity of thought and it wasn't people that were all from these top universities around the world. It was people, like you said, have the passion, The desire and the willingness to connect to something personal, to get something right, and to do something that's connected with higher meaning and a purpose.

Those aren't just buzzwords. Those this is real stuff. Because I think, you know, some people get caught all purpose, hiring meeting, like, no. This is real. When real when people look at me with their eyes bulging, saying, oh my god. This is possible.

Yeah.

Yes. And there there are people get emotional. They cry. They said, I can't believe I'm sharing this. So because we we could do so much together.

Mhmm.

And that's that's the Howard, I think that as a leader, as a person in the workplace of just anybody in the community, you see somebody. Like, you make those connections. You and you do that with real purpose and love and curiosity. I mean, it's just we could go out and on about it. There's just so many stories.

Yeah. No. It's brilliant. I love that. And something that came up for me as you were talking about it and and maybe you have something to share on this as well, Darren, is psychological safety. So, you know, our values the key to psychological safety then. Like what was the difference between say having a group of people who maybe the innovation wasn't there because you all thought the same. But by bringing a diverse group of people, creating as a scenario creating a team where it's okay to be yourself, where it's okay to be authentic, where it's okay to speak up and to share your ideas and welcoming those ideas.

Like, how did you go about doing that?

I I just gotta pause one second. I'm sorry. My dog my dog wants to join the conversation, so she's coming in. Her name's Edna. She's a she's a former guide dog. Anyway, so your question is about psychological safety. And You know what? It's it's not reacting to the ideas and suggestions or the questions. It's really it's really about welcoming and and and saying thank you and appreciating and and thanking.

And what I realized for me Is that when I stopped telling people what to do and asking people what What they thought we should do, that's when everything changed. You know, I think we had a high level of direction and values, but that level of psychological safety Shifted when we ask people, what do you think? What's your take? And we've we've built this Agreement that we were gonna be an inclusive environment and team that we were kinda living in this both and. Yes. Good. Good thought, Ian. Let's would that how would that go with this, or how can that go with that? Mhmm. And it was a it was a Building block mechanism. We're we weren't canceling each other out.

Especially I mean, I I say that when you think about today, world about canceling. If we don't cancel each other's ideas out, we're not canceling each other's thinking out. Right? We're we're actually embracing more so we could build out it. Does that mean everything's accepted as part of the final product or decisions? No. We got to the point where people are accepting that. Because they knew that every thought and idea and every word was gonna make us better. It's gonna think us it's gonna allow us to think More broadly, like, expand out again. Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, go further out as a team. You know? Well, really welcome, the possibilities that are truly out there.

It was the stop telling people what to do. I think that was the point I wanted to to pick up on. So you mentioned, Darren, about stop telling people what to do and be open and kinda be curious to listen. Oh, now I remember what I was going to say. So we have done that in organizations that I've worked in where you have this kind of open forum and no idea is too silly, and you can bring in different tools and techniques and props to kinda drive that innovation. I love that approach because it is the idea that, well, that might not be the final answer, but it sparks something in someone else to come up with another idea that maybe, again, someone else can build on that even further. And it goes around and everyone feels like they've contributed in some way, that they were kind of part of that process of evolution or process of of designing what it is the final outcome is. The other thing that I wanted to pick up on, Darren, was this idea that, stop telling people what to do and ask them what they think instead.

We talk about this an awful lot, especially in coaching. Like, that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to coach people through. But it's sounds to me like a a really great shortcut to creating psychological safety. So when you rather them telling people what to do, and they just kind of blindly listen and they get on with it. And sometimes it's quicker and it's easier to tell people what to do rather than to watch them struggle, if they're not kind of fully there yet with figuring out exactly what needs to be done. But it's so important, especially if it if it creates that kind of byline towards psychological safety just by engaging with people and saying, listen, you know, you're capable of doing this job. How what what do you think that we should do in this scenario? What are the next stepped here.

Talk me through it. Talk me through your thinking. Even if you don't have the answer, what are the immediate thoughts? And I think it's it's such a powerful way to build a cohesive and high performing team that is not reliant, kinda going back to your earlier point that you mentioned that you don't have to be there. It's other people who are doing the work. We are facilitating that. You've created that environment. But that is the role of the leader that they should be able to kind of step away from that and the team still performs. That you they're not reliant on you.

You don't have to be there for the day to day.

Yeah. I agree with that. Zach Mercurio, I think you know him. He talks about that invisible leadership. It's it's what it felt like to me. Like, you have that invisible leader That's not in the room. It's it comes back to the values, the purpose, and the connection of, no. We wanna get this right.

We wanna do this together. Our voices are heard. And that's the place a belonging and all the things that I I think you're passionate about too. So I

am. Absolutely. Darren, we've gone in loads of different directions today. But for me, it kind of followed this kind of underlying thread of people are amazing, and you'd be so surprised at what people are capable of if you give them the chance. Like, that's kind of how I would summarize our conversation. Is there anything else that you want to share along those lines? Or is there anything else that you want to get across?

Yeah. I I I love what you just summarized there, and I agree with you. And I think it's it starts with each of us. You mentioned this earlier about How we're connecting with individuals and giving people the chance the chance to, make a difference, the chance to surprise you the chance to learn and do something that they never thought they could do or they never thought they were worthy of. Those are the experiences that will blow you away. And I gotta tell you, that's a better feeling than telling people what to do and to and then achieving those results. Not knowing what you're gonna get, but asking what's possible and asking people what they think, you're gonna get results beyond comprehension. It's I I'm telling you.

If we if you do that with real intent and genuine caring, you're right. You can't just say it and then do something else And and not support people in certain ways. You're gonna have success. And and be intentional about it. Be purposeful. You know? Act with curiosity and follow through on it. And the other thing too is you mentioned about not telling people what to do. There's certainly environments where there is a command and control element where sometimes we're in situations, We gotta just do this to survive or dig it through some event.

The problem is I've seen some leaders go so far to pick that their norm. So the people just don't step in. They kinda let the leader or the, you know, the manager do the job. So they're like they just they do the bare minimum. Yeah. There's no growth in that. There's no excitement. There's no so growth possibilities there.

The the other thing about the silliness, I just wanted to add about that. Our ability to get comfortable with where we are and who we are is so important too. Like, I've Had a lifetime where I've had self doubt, where I wondered if I was in now. Like, I started my life where I was I was behind at an Early age. And, you know, some folks were hoping that would just be average. And that's one of those things when you you look back and then you look forward, you're like, No. We we all can do whatever we want. Yeah.

We all have limitations. Sure. Yeah. Not letting that be the reason why We're not doing what we think is we're passionate about, what we're capable of, or what what difference we can make in the world that is in front of us. Sometimes we don't do things because we we're afraid we're not gonna change the world, Yeah. We can change the world that's right in front of us starting, you know, within us, like you said. And there's this point where the second point you had asked earlier about what are The moments. What were the moments that got me to this place? Like, the one was the awakening at the inclusion of that, and the second one was this.

My logo, if you could tell, it's it's the back of a watermelon ice Italian ice lid. And that was the moment where I I started to recognize, No. There's something here. And I have to overcome this doubt because there's a greater need. There's a greater purpose.

And I

was with my daughter, and we were we were having Italian ice. And we put this lid on the table, And I was on my my cell phone doing work and hanging out with my daughter, honestly not doing either one that well because I wasn't paying full attention The other one. And when when she put this Italian ice down, she was all beaming and smiley. And I put my phone down, and I saw this lid. And it was this upside down smile, this 1 eyed smile. And I was like, oh my god. It was it's like it's like the universe, the world, Whatever you believe in or don't believe in it, something spoke to me. Right?

Yeah.

It hit but it hit my heartstrings. My daughter, I'm like, oh my god. She's beaming. And I'm like, Sadie, look at this 1 eyed smile. And I turned it upside down. It was this logo.

Mhmm.

And my life literally flashed from my eyes from the days I was behind to how I was taken care of, and all the experiences of my life. And I'm like, oh my god. The joy I get is from bringing joy out in other people. Yeah. And I wasn't doing that, and I recognize that I need to look for differences. And when I start to look for differences in the power differences and and and kinda let my guard down and be silly, I saw this one eyed smile because guess what? It's a different smile.

Yeah.

And it represents the fact that we're all unique. This is a unique smile that it's present. It's expansive. Like, if you think about the eye being yourself and then the smile being the expansiveness of the world inviting it in. Mhmm. And This is something that reminds me along with this pink pen to look for these differences that there's joy and there's beauty and there's love inside all of us. And I want us to actually see it and recognize it. And whatever that is that definition is for you, to realize it Everyday.

Because it's there. It's possible. We can find joy and happiness every single day to help us bring more light and do the things that we love.

Yeah.

Right? Live with that higher purpose. And, you know, that, you know, that moment for me, I I gotta tell you, that's what got me to start to write my book, write a new path, And do the things I'm doing now. And I I'd love to be able to share, opportunities with people on how they can actually spark Their journey differently, unlocked their potential, they're possible, unlocked their team's potential too. And and I love all the work you're doing because you're doing all of that and more. And you're doing that With with leaders, with women, with with, a popster syndrome Work. I mean, you you're probably you're probably, like, chuckling when I said I had a lot of doubt. So, like, I did. And I you know, there's times and moments where I I still do, and I had to overcome that.

Will So it's not like there's, like, the special I had these 2 moments and that's it. It's like everyday purposeful steps.

Yeah.

Continuously learning.

Yeah.

Yeah. Be ours authentic selves and then link those connections that matter, and you're gonna you're gonna live within those possibilities, And it'll keep popping. And it's it's unbelievable.

Yeah. Brilliant. No. It is funny because I was gonna bring up about that self doubt. And you were saying, well, I had to overcome that self doubt. And I've, you know, I've doubted myself. And like one of the things and I think you alluded to it without necessarily explicitly saying it. So I'd love to build on the point by saying that by placing the emphasis on other people, not on ourselves, who are we here to serve? Who can I help today? That helps us to to kind of realized that our self doubt is not about us.

It doesn't matter that we doubt our abilities. We're here to serve other people and to help other people. So by putting the focus on other people, it helps us to shift the focus away from ourselves and and our own doubting of our abilities.

Yeah. You just I think you just summed up my life. I realized that when I started to stop focusing on, you know, where I was going in my career and telling people what to do and actually be more selfless, and help other people that Without in mind without expecting anything back, by the way, in return. When I started to do that, Things changed. Things opened up in in magical ways. Like, the joy I found with my daughter wasn't just because she's my daughter. It's the joy of Helping human beings come alive in a different way. Yeah.

And when I realized, like, that that's, you know, that smile was upside down on the table. It wasn't It wasn't upside down. I was upside down, and I needed to change my thinking. And I needed to change the way I looked at life. I needed to be more silly and open and Live with more curiosity and wonder. Because I do think it's a transcendent door to whatever it is that we care about, whatever we value. You know, for me, it's joy. It's inclusion.

It's love. It's helping people see the amazing things in life that they're capable of. It's unique for all of us, though. Know, what is that door for you? What is that door for other people Mhmm. Is what really was really matters in my mind. And I don't know. It's just It's it's a journey, and it and it it's not something that just happens. Even though these are events these are events then you think about Your life, and you think about the positive moments, you think about the hard moments, and you start to learn from those.

And that's a step too that's really intentionally. Like, it's not just one thing that happens. It's like going to live and see, oh my god. I grew up this way. Gosh. I won't do that again or, wow, this is really why This set me on this course this way. And when we start to reconnect back to our childlike selves in some ways and how we lived our life, it really could set us Free for what we've been told or where we're we're or the way we're being today. Right? It's Yeah.

It's it's an avenue to go back to who we really are.

Brilliant. I love that. It's a really nice way, I think, to wrap things up on the podcast. Darren, the question I ask everyone who comes on to the Happier at Work podcast, what does being happier at work mean to you.

Being happier at work to me is truly being part of something bigger. I I'm I'm contributing. I'm involved. I'm a fit. I I belong. My voice is heard. Unwelcomed. You know, people smile, you know, when when you walk into the room because they're happy to see you.

I'm part of something, Whatever that is. If it's at work or it's something in the community, I'm part of a classroom. I I think it's just Being able to be me as my authentic self and contribute in ways that actually adds value, and it's that simple. And to be able to start to see this for other people. Right? That's what feeds my joy every day is to help People do this. This sparks me joy every single day. You know, as I work with intention to really bring out the best in people, I get rewarded all the time because people surprise me again what they do or what they say they can't do, they overcome. The challenge, it's in the way they they figure it out.

And it's not I'm not doing it. Other people are doing it. I'm just helping people see that they're possible they can do it. Yeah. And it's about people's paths and their voices and what they wanna do and then what they wanna achieve. And at the end of the day, that's what it's all about, To your point. And it it starts from here. It's like, I have this selfless care for other people, and it feeds my heart every day.

Yeah. Love that. And if people want to reach out, if they want to find out more about what you do, what's the best place that they can do that?

Well, I know you're adding some links to the show show notes, I imagine. You know, outside that, I also have a podcast called Live Your Possible. So you can go right out to wherever you listen to your favorite podcast and check it out, Live Your Possible, Darren Tully. And there's contact information there. And of course, I'm on all the different sites yet. I think that's a probably a good place to start.

Brilliant. Love that. Thank you so much for your time. I loved this conversation. I think we got down to some really some really practical things and some kind of real life examples of what happens when you have diversity of thought. What happens when you believe in the capabilities people and you ask them about their passions and you provide that environment for people to share what's going on for them. So thank you so much for sharing your your insight and wisdom today. I so appreciate it, Aaron.

Yeah. Thanks for having me. You're doing some such great work, and I'm glad to be part of it with you. So have a great day. Thanks.