This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) start with the children's social media ban that's all over the news, & end up somewhere we didn't plan to: the boundaries we swear we want & then break by teatime.

Because here's the uncomfortable bit..we know boundaries are good for us. We've read the books, done the therapy, we can recite the theory back to you word for word. & we still take the phone to the sofa, still answer the DM at bedtime, still miss the 4:30 finish we set that same morning. Wanting the boundary was never the problem but holding it is.

The social media ban for under 16’s cracked it open, because the sneaky thing about any rule someone else sets is the little flicker of relief underneath it. Someone else holds the line, so we don't have to decide, negotiate or feel guilty about it. & once we clocked that in relation to our kids, we couldn't stop seeing it everywhere: the 4:30 finish that never happens, the work that follows us into bedtime, the offers we over-stuff & then can't scale, the invisible deadlines nobody set but us.

Plus a report back from last week on using AI to carry some of the mental load: LEGOLAND intel, a fully themed birthday party sorted from one voice memo, & the calendar app Ruthie is vibe coding so she never has to be the family PA again.

In this episode:

• The relief sitting inside the Social Media ban for our kids & the our version of it from COVID
• Why Sophie has a therapist who specialises in boundaries & the thread that ends at "if I drop a ball, I'm unlovable"
• Ruthie's real-time Tuesday dilemma: football with her son, or the work she's convinced can't wait (even though nobody actually asked for it today)
• The "I can't" to "I don't" swap that changes everything, & the "I have to" to "I get to" reframe sitting right next to it
• Over-delivering yourself into a corner: the beta trap, the pricing that punishes you, & why piling on more bonuses isn't the fix

New episodes every Tuesday.

Follow Sophie: @sophiegriffithsco & Ruthie: @firstpersonnarrative

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I Care?

with me, Sophie Griffiths

And me, Ruthie Walmsley

So in the news the last few weeks has been the social media ban that is coming

in for children, over the next few years.

And obviously both as parents, it's something that's caught our eye.

There's a lot of chat online.

And as we were chatting about it, we were saying, what if someone told me that I

couldn't have my phone over, you know, in six months' time I couldn't have my phone

for the next, three years or something?

How would I feel about that?" Now, initially for me, a bit panicky.

But then we really got into it, and actually what we realized was

fundamentally what we were talking about was boundaries and how we hold them both

at work, at home, with social media, with our offers, with our businesses,

and how honestly it is, such a big thing for me, and I actually even

have a therapist that specializes in working with people on their boundaries.

It's a huge thing for my clients as well, and I know it's something

for you, Reethie, as well, that you've done a lot of thinking on

Yeah.

A lot of thinking, perhaps not enough doing.

But yeah, like, when it comes to, the mobile phone ban thing, obviously the

interesting thing about phones and the technology inside social media

and all of that sort of stuff, is it's designed to push our boundaries.

It is designed to actually rip apart our boundaries and keep us on the

app and keep us engaged and stuff.

And I think there's so much in our lives now that is, there's a team

of experts trying to get us to stay on, trying to get us to keep doing.

And not just with social media, but with everything.

Like, how can we, in this world that is filled with so much stuff, information,

targets, ambitions, comparison, like, how do we hold our boundaries?

I am really bad at it.

I am openly aware that holding boundaries is not something that I'm good at, because

I definitely associate boundaries, definitely incorrectly, but I associate

boundaries them in some way leading to somebody else's disappointment or somebody

else not getting what they could have got because I'm holding that boundary.

Yeah

, And as a, I'm not even a recovering people pleaser, as just a lifelong

people pleaser, that's really hard for me to wrestle with, to feel like, "If

I do this, am I going to be letting somebody down?" it's hard, and I think

it's something that so many women in business can relate to when we're

balancing as many plates as we are

Yeah, I totally agree.

And what I think was really interesting was when we were talking about the

social media ban and how it would feel if we were suddenly told,

we couldn't go on social media.

, For me, immediately it was like, "Oh my gosh, that would be so hard in terms

of my business." I do use, obviously, Instagram and Facebook ads as well.

a lot of my business is on social media.

Although I do have other ways of reaching clients as well, it still

would be a huge shift in how I connected with people to grow my business.

But honestly, like underlying from that, there's also a bit

of a sense of relief, I think.

A little bit like in COVID, not to make light of it, because COVID was

a really tough time for a lot of people, but there was an element of

it that I think a lot of people felt was that it was really, someone else

was holding the boundary for you.

So actually suddenly, like you couldn't go out, you couldn't see your

friends, you couldn't go on holiday.

But also, yeah, okay, that's really sad and disappointing,

but also, oh, how amazing.

I can't go out.

I don't have to decide if I'm saying yes or no to going to that party.

I don't have to decide if I've got enough social energy to do that.

Actually,, it's not happening.

Nobody's going.

what a relief that someone else is holding that boundary for me

Yeah.

And I think there's definitely a part of that with this social media ban.

obviously I used to work with teenagers.

I used to work in a secondary school and, it's hard to be told that

something that you love, which so many people do, myself included, is not

gonna be as widely available for you or not going to be available at all.

There's this real balance when it comes to social media because, for

teenagers, yes, all of the studies, I think, unanimously say this is damaging.

Yeah

know, body image is lower in those that are on it.

Anxiety is higher.

Depression is higher.

There are so many case studies and stories of the terrible things that

social media has done to young people.

However, it is also, I think it's known as a third space.

So third spaces are places outside of the home, outside of like

institutions, schools, and stuff, where young people can gather.

And what the online world has become is that third space.

And so I know that a lot of people are saying like we need to invest

in alternative third spaces, but it's not just investing in

them, it's making them feel cool.

Yeah

and what social media's allowed is for teenagers and young people to curate their

own third space that they can hang out in.

And so I do think it's really interesting to think about what it feels like

to have something taken away, but, also when you know it's for the good.

Yeah

it's really hard, isn't it?

and when we're setting our own boundaries just in life, it is sometimes it's hard

to do it, it's for the greater good.

So I think it raises all sorts of questions about social media.

I think it's really easy as adults for us to become completely obsessed with

it, and our brains are fully formed.

young people's minds are still under construction and so it is…

it's just interesting to think that we are putting this in place.

A forced boundary is going to be a massive relief for so many young people.

So many young people think, "Actually, look, I don't have to

try and control myself. , We're sometimes saying to young people,

"Have hell have some self-control.

Put your phone down.

You pick it up all the time." they're probably trying.

Yeah

we're removing that.

And like you say, with COVID, you said, lots of people had

a horrendous time in COVID.

my family included actually.

My, my husband's dad was really poorly.

However, there were elements of it where the - decision was removed.

I didn't feel burnt out.

I didn't feel completely exhausted.

I was able to find more pleasure in smaller things like a daily walk that I

suddenly had this enormous gratitude for.

And so my hope is with this social media ban that we can all learn, a

lesson about the boundaries that we can enforce across all sorts of things.

I definitely need more when it comes to social media.

Yeah.

and me too.

And I'm well aware that, my children see me on my phone all the time.

they understand what Instagram is because I will often talk about,

generally Instagram because I'm using it.

They think TikTok is the name for a dance.

So they're like, "Can I do a TikTok?"

And they, and that's basically them saying, "Can I do a dance?"

Now they've never been on TikTok.

I'm not on TikTok.

But, they will sometimes, look over my shoulder at Instagram.

And like immediately, like my eldest who is like a dopamine-seeking machine

because she's got ADHD, and like me, and she is like, "Who's that?

Oh, my God.

What are they doing?

Can I see that video?

What are you doing?" And immediate- I'm like, "No, absolutely not."

I'm putting the phone away.

But I have to say, I find it very hard, to not be on my phone around them.

And I find that quite hard to say because I'm like, I know on, Instagram, - there's

a part of my world is like a thread of very, very boundaried women, incredible

women, who are really boundaried with their phone, and they put it away when

they come in, and they don't have it out when the children are around, and

they're really strict with their, time on their phone and that sort of thing.

And I've definitely tried different things, but ultimately it's like,

you know, I sit on the sofa and I'm like, "Okay, I'm not gonna have my

phone with me," and then it's oh, I need to update the food shop.

Oh, I need to, check, what dinner Eliza's having tomorrow."

That's on an app on my phone.

I need to work out, if I'm having to make packed lunches.

I need to message the moms because someone's picking the kids up tomorrow.

everything is on my phone.

And I just, I…

the

It is, it's a portal for, so many things.

And I do find it really hard to not be on my phone around them.

And I know it's not always social media strictly, but- I am on my phone a lot.

And I can see then how hard it is.

my children are nine and five, so they're not at an age where they

would be having their own phones yet.

And, I think I'm lucky.

They're probably, my eldest is on that borderline of being one of the ones

that isn't gonna have it taken away.

She's just gonna never have it, which I think will be easier.

a little bit like, I was talking to my husband about this, and we were saying,

I wonder in, 10, 15 years if we'll look back at, you know how, now when you

talk about things like people used to smoke on airplanes, and there was like,

when you used to, call up a restaurant and, ask for the non-smoking or smoking

area or I'm just, hor- horrified

Do you, are you old enough to remem- I'm, older than you,

by a couple of years, I think.

But do you, were you, are you old enough to remember that there

used to be ashtrays in McDonald's?

Oh, not specifically, but I probably was like, "Oh my God"

There's foil, there used to be foil ashtrays.

And the only reason I've got such a vivid memory is 'cause I used to

love folding like, really foldable.

but yeah, you used to go to a Maccies, , for, a birthday party of your friend,

and there'd be ashtrays on the

Yeah.

just wild,

Wild.

interrupt.

no.

and I remember, I was going to pubs when there's, there wasn't a smoking ban inside

and, you'd have to really weigh up, "Am I gonna wash my hair to go to the pub?

Because I'm gonna have to wash it again tomorrow," because it will stink of smoke

from, people smoking around you inside.

And I remember when the smoking ban came in and everyone was just

like - "We're gonna have to be outside to smoke. it is gonna kill

pub culture. no one's gonna go out if they have to stand outside and smoke."

Yeah

We're like that generation that are gonna have seen both sides.

a little bit like with the internet, "What, you didn't have instant access

to the internet on your phone?"

No

but, my children, I think they would be absolutely horrified.

I don't even think they really know what smoking is.

we don't really know anyone that smokes.

they're not around it.

I don't think they genuinely would understand the concept of it really

and it's such a foreign thing

Yeah.

that smokes a

Yeah

It's even myself sometimes when I see someone smoking I'm like, "Oh

I know.

God, they're smoking.

That's crazy." And so yeah, I hope it is.

And I think, it is … What you say is so right i'm on my phone loads.

am on my phone Like, my … When it sends you that notification

of how long you've been on

Yeah

could cry.

not to sound like an addict who's justifying, but like I am often doing

things that are allowing me to multitask.

So like you said, I'm on the Ocado app trying to update my shop or make sure

that I've remembered to check it out so that it's not just like a bottle of

Yeah

And then I'm on the mum's chat, or sometimes I'm actually texting my

Yeah

who I haven't - seen because I haven't had time because life is

so busy and I wanna check in with them and they're important to me.

And so what am I meant to do for that?

Yeah

to pick up a landline?

I don't even know if my friends have got landline numbers anymore.

And so we have built this world where the phone is the portal to the outside

world and getting stuff done, and meaning that I don't have to go and walk around

a food shop at 10 o'clock on a Wednesday night because I can sit on my sofa and

do it, and that works better for me.

if I'm thinking about, I've got people coming over for dinner, and rather than me

having to go and get a load of books out I'm, searching on my phone for recipes.

And so it's really hard.

Like, …, I think probably the reason why I'm not boundaried on my phone is 'cause

I don't know where to draw that boundary.

But one of the things I think perhaps I could do is set up, you know how you can

… My sister's got one of those bricks, and, it blocks you out of certain apps.

So there's absolutely no reason why I need to be on Instagram most of the

time at 10 o'clock at night, if I'm

Yeah

And so I could block myself out of some of the apps, that are distracting me,

because sometimes I go on my phone for one thing, I don't know if then I catch

myself and I'm scrolling on Instagram and I was like, "What was I even here

Yeah.

I think my, thumb has, a routine of its own.

It'll, check WhatsApp, check Instagram, check my emails . And then I'll be like,

"Oh, hang on. What was I here for?"

It will.

muscle

yeah.

And I think, though, it's really interesting, like you say, I don't need

to be on Instagram at 10 o'clock at night.

And I do think when we're looking at boundaries, when you're business owners,

and you are looking at boundaries between work and home, 'cause I know most of the

time, my phone usage isn't a problem.

, When I get up in the morning with the girls, I'm generally

not really on the phone.

We're getting ready.

We're going to school.

I would say for mornings, we have a pretty good routine.

… I don't start work until I get to my desk in the morning, and

I'm pretty boundaried about that.

unless there's something really big going on that I need to do.

But generally, I'm, like, at my desk before I start work.

Where I really struggle is when they come home from school, and

that,, late afternoon, early evening, into the proper evening,

And this is one of my biggest challenges, and I'm actively working on this at

the moment, because I think it goes so much deeper than just, oh, I'm

struggling to stop work at 4:30.

obviously, I could set an alarm.

I could stop work at 4:30.

But there is so much that sits behind that in terms of, feeling,

over-committing myself to clients, to offers, to, new launches, to, feeling

like I've got to push the business forward to make more money, to be the

best, coach that I can be, to make sure I'm responsive to everybody.

to do that every single day and make sure I've done everything, very

hard for me to switch off at 4:30.

And what I find is that I- can do everything I need to do for clients and

generally for the wider business in my hours I have, I could finish at 4:30.

What I don't have capacity for or what I don't prioritize

within that time is social media.

Because there is some part of me that thinks that social media is

not, proper work, and therefore if I'm sitting at my computer dicking

around with a carousel for ages, I get to the point where I'm like, "Oh,

come- Sophie, this is ridiculous.

You could do this on the sofa later.

You could do this when you're lying next to Eliza when she's going to sleep.

You could do this, while you're making dinner." All the lies that

I tell myself, that it's fine.

You can just do… just do Instagram, in your life.

And so what happens is, A, I find it very hard to finish at 4:30 anyway,

but even when I hold that boundary, I really struggle to hold the boundary

to not take my work with me inside.

And by work, essentially, like, Instagram, replying to any clients

that, you know, things that pop up.

I'm much better at that now, but I used to be really bad for that.

replying to Instagram DMs.

honestly, if you're out there and you've DM'd me and you haven't heard back

from me, just know it, it weighs on me.

it weighs on me all the time that I have so many DMs I really struggle to

go back to people on, because I don't have time to prioritize it in my day.

And so it ends up then being, like, a choice between sitting watching

something with my kids/having fun myself or sitting with them and trying

to, prioritize a few bits on Instagram

Yeah, and I hate myself when I'm doing it

Yeah.

I worry sometimes, like how many times has my son heard me say,

"Just let me do this quickly.

just one thing

I've just gotta finish this work post.

I've just, and I've just got to, I've just got…" And I think,

God, I can hear myself, and

I hate the thought of him listening to those words from me.

now sometimes I think it gets harder when they're in , the age

group that, your eldest and Wilf.

Wilf's about to turn nine, and so there, there is a level of independence where

they don't necessarily want you to be playing with them, or , they actually

might not want your full attention, so it encourages you to split yours.

That's not putting the blame on them, but I can justify it a

little bit more, whereas when he was younger, I'd got no chance.

what I mean?

yeah

no ch- I had got no chance.

There wasn't even a point in me bothering to try, so it

wasn't me holding the boundary.

It was just that there was no point in me trying to do it

because it wasn't gonna happen.

Whereas now I can tell myself, because it's just on my phone, I can carry

it around, it's very small, I can just be like, "Oh, I'll just I'll do

that later. I'll just quickly do it." It's that bloody word just, isn't it?

I'll

yeah

just gonna take two minutes.

But I think as well, we were talking about, with boundaries, there is this

school of thought, not even a school of thought, like this story that we

tell ourselves, I think especially as women, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe

it's everybody, that every moment of our day has to be optimized.

Like we have to be doing something that is qualified as purposeful, that

is driving something forward, that is improving something, all the time.

That everything has to have a purpose to it to make it worthwhile.

I think that, that's what makes some of the boundaries harder to keep, is

that sort of nagging voice in my head that actually, if you do wanna hit that

target that you've set yourself, maybe you could just quickly do X, Y, Z.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's like I'm waiting in the queue at the supermarket.

okay, Even if it's not for work, but like how… Okay, how can I get my phone out?

How can I… do I need to reply to a WhatsApp?

Could I quickly, Google, you know, could I quickly ask Claude to pull

together a LEGOLAND plan for me?

Could I quickly, do a voice note to someone to, basically push balls out

of my court to try and get someone, respond to something, do something?

And it's it's that and it's also, I think, every time I'm going for a walk, how can

I pair that with something that I'm much better at this now because I really…

Probably a couple of years ago when I was feeling, really feeling on the edge

of, being burnt out and I really had to look at, okay, what am I doing here?

Like, how am I using my time?

And what I realized was that I never really just relaxed and enjoyed myself.

It was like every time…

I'd go for a walk, great, sounds very, wellness, health, great, but I'd

be listening to a business podcast.

I'd, read before bed, but I'd be reading a business book.

I'd, like you said, I'd go to the supermarket and I'd be,

like, replying to stuff as I go.

And each moment, even, sitting watching telly, I'd be doing something else.

I'll just, I don't know, book the kids' lunches in for next week.

Everything was like, how can I multitask?

And I have to say, I'm really good at multitasking, and I think

that's part of the challenge.

my brain thrives on having loads of tabs open.

My brain loves it when we've got a purpose and, we're ticking things

off, like the dopamine is great.

But, when do I actually rest?

Like, when do I actually, build my cup up and actually just ha- do something because

it's fun and because I enjoy it, and actually focus, my attention just on that?

Yeah, and I think, do you know, I think it's why I love holidays Like, I am

obsessed with,, like a summer holiday, as in I am… And , I'm not cultured.

I'm, like, lying on a sunbed, bring me a drink, I'm reading.

I'm gonna splash around in the pool.

And I think the reason I love it is because it's one boundary that I hold.

I'm like, "I'm not doing work on holiday. I'm gonna do things because it's lovely."

There's something about being on a holiday where the rules of being on holiday,

for me, I feel like everyone knows you don't work from the sun lounger.

no one's doing that.

Everyone knows that you have to read a lying in the shade or whatever.

So the rules are set of what a holiday looks like for me, and I, I love it.

And I think the reason sometimes why I'm like… My- one of my life goals is that

every single time Will's off school, we could go somewhere on a sunshine

Yeah

or a fun winter holiday.

And I think the reason I want that so much is because I actually switch off.

actually am able to relax and do things for fun.

And actually, last year, we were on holiday, and I was going for a

swim every day, doing 30 lengths or 30 widths or whatever every day.

L- very slow.

it was that kickstarted my little exercise routine that I've been on for a year

because I thought, "God, why am I…"

I loved it.

I was really enjoying

Yeah

I was able to do it every day.

And I was like, "I need to find a way to make this happen at home. what is

wrong with me?" it's not a hardship.

I live really close to a really nice pool that I can go to.

It's something that I enjoy.

I can feel my mind just, relaxing as I'm doing it.

It's quite meditative 'cause I'm counting the, lengths or whatever.

And so I just think there's something about working life and mum life that I

find so, so challenging to n- to even articulate what my boundaries are.

I don't think I could sit and say to you now what my finish time is.

Yeah.

what my boundary is.

I don't think I've actually set them even for myself

And I think that was definitely, a big piece of work that I had to do.

'Cause this time last year actually, my husband started working his part-time

hours, and so I'd always done, the pickups up until that point pretty much.

So I always was, like, really frustrated.

I finished at 2:30, to go and get the girls, come home, get them sorted, and

then I'd try and be, like, multitasking, but, they're watching TV, I'll just try

and get a few emails out, et cetera.

And the whole thing was really fraught, and basically we agreed

that I needed more time to work.

So Pete now does the pickups, every day, other than Tuesdays.

But I- we were, like, expecting, I think, that whole evening period to feel

so much calmer, so much more restful.

no meltdowns, 'Cause he was finishing at 2:30, and that was him done, so

he was able to focus on the girls.

But what we realized was that actually it's not really just about, him being…

So he is present, and he is- he's kinda doing their tea and he's doing everything.

But the reality is that I actually need to be there too because of our children

and their needs and, like, how much they've got going on at the moment.

So I now have this push/pull where I'm like I can hear them screaming, I can

hear that they want me, I can hear this challenge, and yet I'm like, "I just need

to get this done. I just need to get this done. If I can just…" The word just.

if I could just get this done, then I can go in and concentrate

on them, and then I'll pick it up again when they've gone to bed."

But the reality is I'm not.

I've still got it running.

It's- I call them my open loops.

It's still an open loop in the back of my head all the time,

then through bedtime, everything.

I'm not good in the evenings.

I'm much better in the mornings.

and I can tell myself at 4:00 that I'll do it in the evening,

and then I get to evening and I'm like, "Oh my God, absolutely not."

And so we really had to have, a bit of a, like- an intervention to be like,

"How can we make this less stressful?

'Cause this is awful for everyone." And essentially, we're trying, this is

literally a couple of weeks ago, to be like, "How can we do this differently?"

I'm trying to finish at 4:30.

and I was doing really well in April and May.

I did really well at finishing at 4:30.

Something in June, I found it much harder again, and I'm like, "Oh, no,

but I just wanna do this, and I just wanna do this." And I found it much

harder, and I don't really know why.

And I'm trying to go back to "Okay, why is it feeling harder to stop again?

Is it 'cause I'm not delegating enough?

Is it because I'm putting too much pressure on certain things, and so it

feels like it can't wait till tomorrow?

Have I bitten off more than I can chew with work?" So one of my biggest

challenges is when I create offers, sometimes I over-commit my time.

I'm not very good at judging my capacity.

So one of my favorite things to do is add, extra one-to-ones or, I'll say

I'll look at every single piece of work that you do, or I'll be available 24/7.

And what it ends up doing is I will always prioritize client work to make sure

that everyone gets what they need, but what it means then is my business sort

of gets pushed to the side,, and that's when it starts to seep into family life.

But it's such a challenge

It is.

I've got an open loop, as

嗯。

you say, today.

so it's Tuesday today, and on a Tuesday my son has two football

practices, and my husband works a late.

So he's rarely home before 9:00-ish, and that's been for years.

And Wilf has one football practice that's about 20 minutes away from 5:00 till

6:00, and then another one from over the other side of town, 6:30 till 7:30.

So we get home, 8:00-ish.

Fine.

And to be honest, I like doing it.

it's a fun little adventure.

I love watching him play football.

I get on really well with the parents that I'm standing with, and it forces

me to leave my office, 'cause I can hermit a little hard if I'm not careful.

So it gets me out in the fresh air.

And in theory, I like it.

This week, and my husband are meant to be going away for a night, Wednesday night.

Bearing in mind both of us lack boundaries so much that it's taken us

two and a half years to book this trip.

We got bought it by my family as a 40th birthday present.

I'm 42 bit now.

And so we've booked it.

So then that has obviously compressed my work week a little bit.

so I just don't know what to do about-- Really, tonight I could do with working.

I could do with working enough.

I've taken on more work recently.

I've taken on a couple of new bits of work for different clients.

So in terms of my business, I should work tonight to get some stuff done to

allow myself to really enjoy tomorrow However, I don't wanna let Wilf down.

I don't want Wilf to feel like, "But that's our Tuesday thing." That was there

first, which he absolutely is right.

I'm also gonna be away for a night, so he's not gonna see me tomorrow

night, and I've also got plans with friends on Thursday night, so he's

not gonna see me Thursday night.

And I haven't reached a conclusion about it because I don't know.

Yeah

I'm like, "I don't know what I should be doing." what is

the right thing to do there?

The right thing to do is probably be with my son.

no one's writing on my gravestone when I die, "Was super efficient.

Got back to me on that email." "Never let me down." find that really hard.

I don't know what my solution is.

Answers on a postcard, please.

Because I'm just, that the decision will present itself, and that I'll get

this incredible amount of work done this afternoon Or I was, like, secretly

hoping football would be canceled, but

it's not.

Damn it.

Yeah, and I think part of it is that when I find it challenging, and like

this is what I'm finding it hard at the moment, I think it's because I'm

building up to the summer holidays.

So a bit like you, I'm trying to take on a bit more now to almost be

able to have time off in the future.

and I think that feels really hard to be able to then be like, "Oh, I

just need to do more work now, and then I'll be with you in the summer

holidays." By being able to work hard now, I get something in the future.

But I do think, there is something about having to prioritize, isn't there?

Like for me, I have been trying to get a lead magnet out onto ads, for about

three weeks now, and it keeps being the thing that I'm pushing because it's not

urgent and it doesn't have to be done.

And part of me gets really annoyed at myself 'cause I'm like, "Oh my God,

just get the bloody things up." And then the other part of me is like, but

actually it's fine to go a bit slower.

Like it's fine , I go back to that person tomorrow.

I think you have to, get used to the discomfort that comes with holding

boundaries and some of that is that, people might feel a bit let down,

and- I think that feels really hard

Oh, and even you just talking about it, I immediately applied it

to something going on in my work

Yeah.

felt ill.

So I know one thing that I could do that would allow me to go to

football tonight, and then go away for Wednesday, and then come back

to my desk and work on Thursday is

there's two clients that I could email and say, just to give you

an update, this is where I'm at.

I will be getting back to you on I've set an imaginary boundary, like an

imaginary deadline, not boundary, in my head that I wanted to get that

done for those two clients Tuesday.

They don't know that.

They've not asked for it on Tuesday.

That is something that I've made up in my head, and now I'm going

to fail against, and don't want to, and can't sit with that discomfort.

Yeah

And I know so many of the women that I speak to online have got this same,

insane pressure to just over-deliver.

Yeah

to do more, to make sure that , people don't just have a great experience,

that they have this insane experience.

But then also sometimes what you're then doing, I was really thinking about

this last night, I've got these two new bits of work come in, which is amazing.

I am gonna set myself up for a fall by delivering more quickly

I've actually got time to,

Yeah

because then that's gonna become the expectation

Yeah

And I can see it with my different clients.

I'm lucky enough to work with various different clients, and there are

some clients who… I've got this one client, she's called Solara.

She is just the most wonderful human being.

It's not to say my other clients aren't, but is really, very good at holding

boundaries, or I perceive her to be.

So "Her husband works away.

My husband's back.

I'm not gonna be replying to anything for two and a half weeks.

Yeah

if there's anything you need, ask now or forever hold your peace." , But

she offers the same in return. So whenever I say I'm on holiday, she's

like, "Please don't do anything extra.

Please don't do anything that you wouldn't normally be doing.

Please go and enjoy that time." And so my relationship with her

works on that because she's given me permission for it, and then she,

demonstrates it herself, so it makes it easier for me to demonstrate it.

And so actually, in my working relationship with that client, I'm able

to really be great with boundaries because I know that she is great with boundaries.

in other spaces where I've not had that level of conversation, I'm a nightmare.

Yeah

I'm a nightmare.

I'm like, "Yeah, no, I can just do that.

That's no problem.

I'll get it done.

I'll stay up late.

I'll work till midnight.

I'll work till 2:00 AM."

Yeah

I've done that here, there and everywhere.

No one's asked me to.

It's just me making up these invisible imaginary, lines in the sand,

that I'm the one that's drawn it.

Yeah

I think then when we do it, we set up this expectation.

like you were saying with your offers, once you start in over-delivery,

you then can't redraw the boundary.

It's then really hard to pull it back in and say, no, I did it once,

but I'm not gonna do it again,"

Yeah

"I was really quick with that once, but that's not realistic long term."

like, how do we hold boundaries when creating offers is so difficult to

do, especially when it's me, myself and I having the conversation.

So you can just say, "Well, no, you can do that.

Yeah

can, you can totally squeeze that in."

And I think that, there's so much there.

And it did actually made me think I was having some coaching a while ago, as

I said at the beginning, like I have a therapist who literally specializes in

boundaries and like people-pleasing, and I have done so much work on this.

And one of the biggest things I've had to do work on is, why

I feel like I do certain things.

So for example, like the whole finishing at 4:30 and feeling like I just need

to close these loops off, I can't drop any balls, we really dug into that.

and it was like, for me anyway, this won't be the same for everyone,

but for me personally it was Well, what happens if you drop a ball?

if I drop a ball, then I have failed or I've done something wrong.

And then it's okay, if you fail or do something wrong, what does that mean?

And eventually where we got to if you keep going down this thread is that if I

do something wrong, then I'm unlovable.

Because I put so much, I think pressure's probably not the right

word, but like emphasis I guess, or in myself, I like to see myself, as a high

achiever and as someone who delivers things and can juggle all the things

and doesn't make mistakes and doesn't fail, and doesn't let people down.

Because if I let someone down, then they might not love me, and that

would be like the worst thing to me, the worst thing would be for someone

to think badly of me or not like me, and like ultimately be unlovable.

So that's gone in quite deep for you there on the podcast, gang.

But I think it's just, it's so interesting because I do see a lot of solutions

online when it's just like, "Well, just finish at 4:30 and set yourself

an alarm and just, just tell, Ruthie, just tell those clients that you can't

do it and you're just gonna do it on Thursday." But I do think when you dig

into it, it's so much deeper than that.

It's so much deeper than just, "Just set a boundary, just tell them you can't

do it. Just don't offer it. Just don't offer one-to-one, Sophie, and then you

won't have such a packed diary." And it's yeah, that sounds really simple, but

, it's a lot deeper than just don't do it

It is.

And my logical brain knows from years working in education that

boundaries are so helpful for the person on the other end.

I actually know that when I've worked with people, I've paid for stuff where the

boundaries are so clear, it is amazing.

You know exactly what's expected of you.

You know exactly when to receive something.

are so helpful when you're on the receiving end of them.

"Oh, yeah, no, I totally get that.

No, they don't do that.

But that's not something that they offer," or, "Yeah, they will, but it takes them

five days to get back to you, and then they always get back to you in five days."

And you've got this amazing clarity.

So my rational brain totally knows that boundaries are so, so helpful.

They actually can, think, make for a more satisfying experience if you're paying

for something and you know exactly, with clarity, what you can and can't get,

Yeah

and , you know, the line doesn't keep moving.

I love that.

It's an experience for me to go through.

I love that.

And I think if you're a high achiever or want to be a high achiever, then actually

satisfactory isn't what you're aiming

Yeah.

Great isn't even what… I want people to be… I'm so desperate for

praise, and I've really learnt this about myself in the past year or so.

I knew I liked it, but actually I'm like, I'm-- there's a-- I'm thirsty for it.

Do

Yeah

And it's embarrassing.

I've actually started to be embarrassed by my own thirst for praise.

so that's what I realize I'm seeking.

When I'm over-delivering, when I'm people-pleasing,

what I'm wanting is praise.

Yeah

somebody to be gushing with, "Oh my God, that was amazing.

You were so great.

I can't believe you did that so quickly." That's what I'm looking for.

And that's really sad really sad.

I'm 42, and I know that I always do my best for people, so, , why

can't I allow that to be enough?

Why can't, if someone says, "Oh, yeah, that was great. Thank

you," why isn't that enough?

Do

Yeah

I mean?

And so I think you're so right.

, It's never just about the thing.

It's never just about what your logical brain already knows.

It's what are you trying to get out of it?

, I started baking for my son's football team, I don't enjoy baking.

I've maybe got more into it now, but I don't enjoy the process of baking.

I don't find it relaxing.

I don't find it pleasurable, particularly.

But they all praise me so much I'm like, I can't stop.

I'm addicted to it.

I need that praise.

And so that's my challenge with boundaries is like, how do I create boundaries , that

are useful and purposeful but- I don't know, I still want the praise and that's

my worry is, if I email those two clients and say, "Look, this is where I'm at.

I'm gonna be doing it here instead."

Yeah

which is still really quick.

these are people that have signed on in the last week.

So that is still such an incredibly quick turnaround.

But I've created this narrative in my head that's not quick enough or that

they're in some way gonna be disappointed.

And if they're disappointed, how will I sit with that feeling of them not

having this extraordinary experience and just having one that's "Oh yeah,

that was good." Do you know what I mean?

It's it is more complex than I think we give credit for.

And I do think, I know I ramp on about this sort of stuff all the time,

but I do think the expectations on women are really complicated of like

how we do everything for everybody and still look after ourselves.

is anyone managing that?

'Cause I would love to read… Maybe I would read that book.

Yeah.

Maybe that's a self-help book we might read.

Yeah, I know, and I think it's so interesting, isn't it?

because it does seem like such a simple thing.

I do think one of the biggest things is just acknowledging where it's

not working or where you're feeling, resentful or frustrated or you feel

like it's something's not right.

'Cause I think that is the first thing, like you said, you don't even know what

your boundary is around finishing work.

And actually, I think that's the first thing, isn't it, in all different areas.

Like we had to acknowledge that our afternoons and

evenings were just not working.

knowing that doesn't solve it straight away, but I think once you see it,

it's easier to start to catch yourself, to be like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I didn't

finish by 4:30, and our evening was an absolute disaster. So tomorrow I

need to prioritize my work to make sure I've got all of the stuff done."

Like for me, one of the biggest things is going to be doing my Instagram

content on a Monday when I'm meant to do it, and sitting with the discomfort

that might mean that clients or - other work that people are waiting for me

on, will have to wait till Tuesday.

Still within the realms of all our agreements and everything,

but I would ideally, I like to clear the decks on a Monday, and

I'm having to really sit with the fact that feels really

uncomfortable for me to do that.

But actually, to be able then to set myself up for the rest of the

week, I really do need to do it.

otherwise I will just do it at bedtimes.

You really do.

I really do

enough evidence that is what you need to do.

went on, a leadership course once, where… Have you heard the eat the frog

yes.

I love that one.

Yeah, me too.

If you haven't heard it, it's that if you were told at the beginning of

the day you had to eat a frog, like nice French I've never eaten frog

in any of, in any capacity, but s- I know some people like frog's legs.

But, if you were told, you've gotta eat a raw frog Monday morning first

thing, and you left it Monday evening, 9:00 PM, then the only thing you'd be

thinking about that day is, "Oh my God, I need to eat that frog. I've got that

frog to eat. God, this day's gonna be awful because I've gotta eat the frog."

Whereas if you just got up on the Monday morning, found out about the frog, ate the

frog, then the worst thing has happened,

Yeah

and then you can carry on and have a good rest of the day.

And I think, just on social media for you, I think, not that you don't enjoy

social media, but it's just one of those things that you can push down the, push

Yeah

'cause you can do it in the times in between.

But I do think sitting with the discomfort of the things that, I'm

giving this advice and thinking I really need to do it, but yeah, sitting with

the discomfort a boundary that is good for you, that you are assuming, and

it is just such an assumption, we're assuming it's not good for somebody else.

We are making up a story, like you're making up a story that, there being an

additional two hours between when you get back to someone is them going, "Oh, wow,

Yeah, ridiculous.

shit.

This is outrageous." I… it's not that.

It won't be that.

we're telling ourselves, I've got this story in my head that if I go back to

these two people and say, "Actually, I'm gonna need a little bit more time,"

or, "It's not gonna be as quick as I thought it was gonna be," that they're

gonna be like, I'm pulling the contract.

Let's get out of here.

This is rubbish."

Yeah

actually, if they do that, and they are that, then it's not the right fit.

No

just wanna say though, I wonder how much, the first boundary we need to

look at, and I know we talked about offers, but I wonder how much the

first boundary that we need to look at is, what we charge for our time.

Because actually, if I think about the fact that I'm feeling stretched at

the minute, I've done that because I wanted to earn more, and I wanted to,

up my income and so that, again, so that my summer felt more secure and all

of those things that have got really good sensible reasons behind them.

But actually, if when I was developing things in the first place, had

thought more clearly and been more boundaried on the value of my time,

Yeah

would I have had to do that?

and the same with when, we're building our offers, if we're

boundaried in of "Actually no, that would be too much for that price.

That is over-delivery." I just wonder how often it's in the construction

of things that we need to be more disciplined that would then allow

you to finish at 4:30, for example

Yeah.

I totally agree.

And I think it is really interesting, isn't it?

having that, again,- that surprise and delight.

the excellence, the above and beyond of that feeling of having an offer

when someone looks at it and it's "Oh my God. Oh my God, it includes

all of that. Oh my God, it includes, one-to-one feedback," or, a one-to-one

at that price, that's incredible.

And I think , that can really come from that lack of self-belief or self-trust

of actually this offer is enough without me adding in more and more.

And actually, do I remove those things?

Like, sometimes one-to-ones and personalized feedback are

absolutely core to a offer.

But then like you say, you need to charge appropriately for it.

Yeah

Or is it actually, no, I'm gonna remove those things 'cause they aren't critical

and I'm gonna keep the low price point.

But what I do often see, this happens so much with clients, is they'll launch

something new, and it will start off as like a beta, and they'll want to really

overdeliver to, make sure that clients get really great results so that they can

then use them to then sell it, to build the momentum and get great reputation.

And the trouble is they get stuck in that beta thing then, either over-delivering,

so they constrain themselves for, the price point they're charging.

They're basically doing, one-to-one with everybody in the group.

Or they are just undercharging massively and feel like they can't increase

the price to where it needs to be.

And so they end up having more and more people in there at such a low

price, but It's still not giving them the money that they want.

And then that's when you start to feel, resentful and actually it means

that you have to sell more and bring more people in than you actually

need to if you had the higher price.

Yeah.

It's just all courage, isn't

Yeah

uh, we were saying earlier, like, boundaries are about courage.

the courage to set a price that you know actually what you should be charging,

the courage to not the bucket at offering so many bonuses and add-ons that, it

becomes completely unscalable actually.

Yeah

you can create something that is unscalable.

Oh, did you see, I think it, it may have been on Woman's Hour, but I might be

wrong, but you might have seen it over the

嗯

of changing, , I love words.

Of changing I can't to I don't.

So

Ooh.

Yeah.

Isn't it

Yeah

I do this all the time.

I can't work past 3:00 on a Tuesday because I have to go and

get Wilf, and then, know, it's really busy for me and I can't.

Just, I don't work past 3:00 on Tuesdays.

Yeah.

a different

It is such a different vibe

Isn't it?

I can't means that you can be persuaded.

Anything's possible.

Yes, you can.

Of course you can.

You can totally do that.

I don't is a line in the sand.

Yes.

It's like I will not

that is really good.

I like that swap.

The other swap I've heard of is the I have to versus I get to.

So "I have to go and pick the kids up at 2:30," versus, "I get to

go and pick the kids up at 2:30."

Yeah

I think that's a really good reframe as well

when I was at uni, we did a study on way that women use language in

conversation and the way that men use language in conversation and we,

know, really strikingly from a data point of view, use hesitancies so

much more than men in conversation.

So words like, know, just, which we've talked about, and hesitancies are

something I catch myself saying all the time is, "If that makes sense."

Oh, yeah

makes sense.

I'm more than capable of writing something that makes sense.

And so I think, semantics do and I do really wanna challenge myself to

say I don't, rather than I can't.

Because, part of the reason why I moved into having my own business, and I know

this is the same for so many people, is to be able to shape a life that felt better,

that felt more, inclusive of my family.

and I have done that.

there is no way I would be on every school pickup if I was still in education.

There's just no way that would happen.

And so I do feel like that is something I get to do.

so I think my challenge is to just try and, really think about and

articulate what I will and won't do rather than what I can't do,

Yeah

and draw that line in the sand.

I think it is really powerful to think about the words that we use, and I

think I don't do that is certainly one that I wanna try and get in

Yeah.

to my, particular sort of-

I agree.

I definitely am gonna try and use that as well.

I think what you were saying earlier about courage.

I totally agree.

I think it is about courage, and I think sitting alongside that

is the tolerance of discomfort.

Of it's the… It's being able to tolerate, having the courage

to do it and then tolerating the outcome, because that's where I

think people find it really hard.

I think Sometimes it can feel easier to be brave and have a bit of courage,

but it's that tolerance of then of people's reactions, of people's thoughts

of you, of people saying "Oh, your program doesn't include one-to-one.

It's too expensive if it doesn't include one-to-one." as someone who, really

believes in deep connection and that would be incredibly hard for me to hear.

But ultimately, I know that I have to have a boundary that I can't have

all my programs having one-to-one in it, but I'd have to tolerate that.

I have to tolerate that discomfort, and I think that's what is like the

practice, isn't it, of boundaries?

that's what I found to be the practice of boundaries.

Yeah, it's really hard.

And, my tolerance for discomfort is so low.

it

Yeah

actually it's weird because in my previous role, like I, I had a

really high tolerance for discomfort.

I think, I was r- really tolerant of having, difficult conversations with

people, and them feeling probably annoyed with me at the time, and

difficult conversations with parents, difficult conversations with children.

My tolerance for it has just really dissolved because it's so one-on-one.

so my business, my relationship with one client, with their business And I

find it just really intense to manage.

And it's partly why I wanted my group program, to try and

diffuse that a little bit.

Yeah

to have a space where I could set the boundaries and I could in

charge of how I wanted that to run.

I think a little bit more autonomy felt good for that reason.

I think a group program kind of offered me that.

but sitting with discomfort is really hard, especially if I feel like I'm

gonna let somebody down or someone might be a little bit disappointed.

but I was, talking to AI, about, scaling my group program and

Claude, my little French gentleman who I imagine, was just like,

"Actually, you've gotta be realistic.

Some of this isn't scalable.

The relationships you've got with the people in there at

the minute, not scalable.

Some of the parts of the program that they get, not scalable.

You could do it for 11 people, you can't do it for 200." and I was just like, "Oh,

I don't… but that bit's really nice.

I don't want to…" and so sometimes it is really tricky to decide, what's

important to You know, we all want to know the names of people who are in our

containers and have this really great deep connection and relationship with

them, but that has a price attached to it, unfortunately, , in commerce

because , there's time associated with it.

my product's £60 a month.

so for £60 a month, can I realistically know everything about

the people that are in that group?

Probably not.

if I want that, I should probably price that accordingly.

so yeah, it is hard to sit with , some of these decisions where you just want

everyone to have a nice time and be nice-

Yeah.

wouldn't that be lovely?

So what we wanted to do as well, I feel like, part of how we're trying to, use

our time and, the boundaries that I'm starting to create is , like last week we

were talking about, is how we can use AI in more effective ways so that we don't

have to hold everything in our heads all the time, and feel like we just are

endlessly juggling life and work and home.

So last week we were talking about how we could try and start to do that.

I thought we could report back a bit on how we were doing.

So I mentioned earlier actually, we're going to LEGOLAND on Friday, with my two

children who they've got, inset days.

So they're nine and five.

One has got ADHD and autism, the other one we think almost definitely has ADHD.

I have ADHD.

So going to theme parks is like a incredible mix of huge stress and

frustration and sensory overwhelm with the dopamine high of the excitement.

they, are ride obsessed.

So when I'm going into days like this, I find it quite stressful, and

I will often, try and prep and plan.

So I'll go through all the website, and I'll try and find out what the rides are.

But I often find that, I'm still not really sure.

I haven't been to LEGOLAND, I should say, I went when Eliza

was a baby, which she's nine now.

So I haven't been for years and years.

So it's not one we're familiar with.

So I would get there, and then we'd be a bit overwhelmed.

And in all honesty, then we'd probably start arguing about which ride we'd

go to first, and then we'd find a long queue, et cetera, et cetera.

So I got Claude to do the intel for me, and he pulled together,

all of the different rides, which children can go on, which rides and

where they have to have an adult.

which order we should do them in based on, how busy they normally

are and, the time of day and, like, where they're clustered together.

it told us where the sensory break rooms were.

It told us, like, all the access, that we can get to all sorts of

different things to get support.

and I now have, yeah, this little document that I can take with me.

And whether we use it or not on the day, it was something that honestly I

could have lost hours to in terms of trying to read up on forums and Facebook

posts and, advice and stuff like that.

so yeah, I thought that was incredibly helpful for me.

Yeah.

And it's those sorts of things that are just like even if previously perhaps

you wouldn't have done like a snazzy interactive document or whatever, it

would've just been open in your mind all the time of "Oh God, I need to

get my shit together for Lego Land.

Oh God, Lego Land's getting closer.

We need to have a plan." and you just carry it around and it adds

so much to your stress levels.

I also try to use, to save me some time in my personal life.

So , my little boy's eight, but soon to be nine, and He's an only

child, and likes to make his birthday just an annual event for everybody.

and I want to do that for him.

He is a prince.

So

"what are we thinking?" Came up with a plan.

He's having a pool party at the local leisure center and then going to the pub

for pizza afterwards with his friends.

Sounds fab.

Normally I would spend a massive amount of time on then making

it just like a little bit extra.

So I would've designed something, an invite on Canva using, my own

thoughts and feelings and skills.

Yeah

I would've spent ages on Pinterest creating a Pinterest board of like

inspo for the party bags, for the decor, all of that sort of stuff.

But instead I just ranted, I'd used the voice memo option.

I think it was on ChatGPT, could've been Claude.

Said, "This is the party.

This is how many boys are coming.

This is how many girls.

This is the age group." I like Wilf's parties to be a little bit extra.

I like people to leave thinking it's the best thing they've ever been to.

So what could I do from a party bag point of view, from a decor point of view

to make this party feel extra special?

it just came back and was like, "Okay, here's some party bag

ideas," that were all themed.

So

Yeah

you know, like to mini water cannons and pineapple themed sweets to have this whole

like Hawaiian tropical pool party vibe and just like then told me where I could

source them and made the invite for me.

and I got Wilf to come over and speak into the audio and say what

sort of vibe he liked and what he was imagining in his head.

So then he had so much fun with that.

We created the invite, planned out the party bags.

I would've been carrying that around with me thinking, "Shit, I still

need to think about the party bags.

I haven't even thought about what's gonna be in them." know that sounds small fry.

Yeah

it sounds like fucking hell, mate.

You could be using more than that.

I get that.

get that there are amazing things I can do with AI.

But that saved me time, thought, stress, and just removed a few things

from my plate that would've taken me hours because I'd have lost time on it.

Made

Yeah

quick and super easy.

and then the other one is I'm going to attempt to using Vibe Coding,

like I'm not gonna do this myself.

I've got no skills in this department.

But calendar management is something that causes me and my family

quite a lot of stress in that we're running separate diaries.

We've never found a way to bring them together and have one shared diary.

I'm actually really resistant to doing that because I don't

want to be anyone's PA. I've got

Yeah

a bee in my bonnet about like it's not my job that.

So instead, , I'm gonna try and build an app that if I just send it a screenshot

or a voice memo of something that's gone into my diary, it adds it to

my diary, great, but it also sends a notification to my husband that says,

"Just to let you know, Ruthie has just booked this in for this date." then I'm

gonna put it on a shared calendar board.

I'm not, the AI's gonna put it on, like, a Notion board, and then it stops being

my responsibility after that point.

Yeah

So , this is not an app that you're gonna see on the App Store

unless it's especially good.

It's just literally for me and my husband so that I've got

it in one centralized place.

He can see it.

I know there's probably ways of doing that already.

I've got friends who have got very slick family calendar situations,

but it just hasn't worked for us.

So this is my other way I'm gonna try and do

Yeah

that I can just get more organized, 'cause I keep missing things

and not having them in my diary.

Oh my God.

that sounds incredible.

The calendar is a massive bugbear in our house as well.

Like you say, I refuse to be the PA, but there is just… I don't know why it's so

complex, but it is just really annoying.

So I will be waiting with bated breath to see how your app goes,

'cause I will definitely be using it if it's really good.

If it works, I'm gonna give it to

yeah

there are two things that have really helped me with AI that aren't

businessy, that are just, life admin

Yeah.

I love that so much amazing.

Okay.

I think that is everything for this week, and we will see you all next Tuesday

with the next episode of Should I Care?

Have a great week