Episode Summary: What if we stop using fossil fuel and all its derived products today? What would happen? How would the world operate?

We know that we urgently need to break our dependency on fossil fuels if we want to tackle climate change.

But the world we live in today is addicted to fossil fuels and derived products altogether. 

If we decide to stop using it abruptly, let’s say at 11:59 tonight, how can the world operate? can we survive? are we ready for such a shift?

By raising this bold question, Olabanji triggered an interesting discussion on topics ranging from economics, healthcare or priority.

We did not agree on a commonly agreed conclusion, but this discussion showed the benefit of asking questions and reframing the question to help us move forward.

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Olabanji Stephen, Leekei Tang, Kristina Horning and Brian Tormey

Olabanji is from Lagos Nigeria, he’s a Creative Director and visual designer that helps brands gain clarity, deliver meaningful experiences and build tribes through Design & Strategy. He founded Jorney - a community designed to help people stay productive, accountable, and do their best work.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

Kristina is working on design theory and using design process in everything. With a background in architecture, civil engineering and education, she loves research, play and co-creating. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US

Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US. 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Hi, I'm Ima.

I live in Scotland.

Hi, I'm Jen and I'm from Canada.

Hi, I'm Ola Vanji and I'm from Nigeria.

Hello, I'm Leaky and I live in Paris.

Hey, I'm Rod.

I'm from Peru.

Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

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Hi, I am Niki.

Hi, I'm Brian.

Hi, I'm Christina.

Hi, I'm Ji Ji.

You have a question for us today.

please ask your question.

Um, okay, so, um, the question is quite simple and, and I hope we

have a, we have a really interesting conversation based on that today,

and the question is, what happens if we stop all fossil fuel activity?

Um, same by 11:59 PM Today.

Today.

Wow.

Today, yeah.

What happens starting from tomorrow?

It's like, yeah, we have these dreams.

I mean, we're, we're saying like the earth has to survive.

and we can't keep doing things the way we're we're doing them.

So it was like, okay, that's what we want.

Now we have it, it's 1159 and all that stops.

Now the earth comes alive, but what's going to happen?

And so that's my question.

And, and Ji, to help frame your question, I want to, I want to clarify.

I think you mean both use of fossil fuel as in Yeah.

Fuels, gasoline, diesel, et cetera, as well.

Derivative products, plastics, certain fertilizers, you know,

various other chemicals created out of the fossil fuel, which includes

natural gas and, and manure things.

Correct.

You're, that's, it's the all-encompassing stop of fossil fuels that you're asking.

Correct.

Yeah.

That's, Yeah.

Okay.

Leaky.

I want to turn to you.

You have some, I know I can see in your face.

You've got some definite like follow up questions and thoughts.

Well, some thoughts actually, because I've been thinking of, okay, what

if, because we've been saying, okay, we need to stop the, um, gain

new oil, stop using fossil fuels.

And so, but I would like to play the, um, the devil applicate and think of

Optum reason why we cannot stop and.

Something, I think it's maybe something controversial, but

just start with something that could be quite controversial.

I think that, you know, one of the idea that came to mind is that there

are people, there are actually a lot people that work in the oil sector,

uh, whether it's from extraction with refineries and also all, um,

all the, you know, derived products.

And so that's a huge economic sector.

So my first idea is that a lot of people will lose their jobs.

They will be jobless.

If you stop extracting new oil, those people will have, will

be out of their jobs, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So another idea that came to mind, and again, um, I'm playing

the, the Devil Aggregate.

Um, another idea that came to mind is that usually, you know, it's kind of.

Oil extraction project, our long-term project with investments

over a long period of time.

So the, um, those kind of investments are, um, financed like plans,

pension funds, and a lot of things.

So if we stop the extraction of the fossil fuels and the, the use.

of everything that is derived from fossil fuels.

That means a lot of people and companies, they might go bankrupt and

it will be quite bad for the economy.

And actually it will be very bad for the economy because that

they will have a snowball effect.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, even just the medicine side of it, you know, like I just had an experie.

Going to the ER and spending a few days in the hospital, and there was, there

was a lot of different things used at different moments that, you know, some

of it was for sterile purposes, right?

Like could, could it possibly have been done without as many

plastics or other products?

But some of it, I, I don't know how you do an IV without plastics, but like, I don't

know how you achieve that without plastic.

Um, and so it, it does, there's many great questions in there, leaky.

Yes.

And the other thought that I have is that, you know, uh, we will be starving.

The will will be sobbing because the whole agricultural sector is based

on, uh, fertilizer and, um, I think that fertilizer are based on, on

fossil fuel, uh, derived product.

So if we stop using.

Fertilizer, how can we get enough food for the planet and uh, feed everyone?

Yeah.

Although I will say I'm currently working on a transaction.

I had a call earlier today with a client and we're talking about

things and there's our old coal mine that's adjacent to the property.

That's, but it's actually, and we were talking through the

legal requirements and things.

he surprised me and I was on video and he said, well, what, it's actually

being sold to someone who's gonna be bringing in by trained huge amounts of

human feces to be turned into fertilizer . And I, I was like, wait, what?

And I was like, well, actually maybe that's awesome.

You know, like it really surprised me in the context of this, you

know, this large is actually a renewable energy project that's

adjacent to where this coal mine is.

And so, but it was this interesting moment where I was

like, oh, wait, what's happening?

and it was this, it's, it's a more renewable version, right?

Human fes, uh, more renewable version of fertilizer creation.

I've got a, I, I have an interesting question, and least I think you have a

couple more categories to go through as well, but I wanna maybe ask a version

of all of Andre's question to weave into entities because maybe the answer to

Oli bonded question is different than the effort of a version of, of that

question, which, , what if we'd stopped 80% of fossil fuel usage today at 1159?

Like that is great.

Like there was, we, we cut it by by four fifth and we left 20%.

Therefore, maybe, maybe some of those things could still be addressed.

Maybe the answer to the medical is like, okay, maybe we can,

we can do the medical We.

Be ingenious enough to solve for medical if we've got 20% of current

consumption available for youth.

Yeah.

And, but maybe other things like transportation or, you

know, or things like fertilizer, like maybe we would need more.

We'd be like, oh, we're gonna stop doing chemically, you know, petrochemical

driven fertilizer production.

We're gonna shift to this other method of fertilizer production.

And maybe the answer would be a little different.

So I sort of want to put, put a, a Brian question in next to Oliver Bond question.

Yeah.

And, and that makes a lot of sense because, and I think what, why the

question is now beginning to like, reframe itself is like, well, like

it now starts, I mean, the question just opens us up to why fossil fuels

are actually this important, right?

Like, um, it's.

They say you don't know the value of something until you don't have it anymore.

And so now it's like the thought of not having it anymore is bringing us

like into consciousness of all the things that we actually do with it.

, and, and maybe that's a really interesting perspective to look at it from, because

now we're starting to see, oh, we have medical suppliers and equipment to

steal, you know, that we still need, we have certain areas that fossil fuel.

I mean, it's like, uh, it's like a resource, right?

A resource should not be useless.

A resource should be.

To produce, you know, something or to be able to give us a level of efficiency

with, you know, whatever it is.

And so we can't say, we can't just say, Hey, like, we don't want the

resource anymore because we've overused it or used it in a way that

has heard us, you know, some type and, and, and that can go on and on.

And so what, what I'm just enjoying right now is how the thought.

Having it go away is bringing us into a is is bringing the many things or

the importance of fossil fuel to bear.

And it's also maybe everyone's, uh, helping us have a healthy conversation

because, I mean, I see people bash, you know, like climate change advocate

and say, you guys are some sort of this and that, and they say all

that because like, you don't know.

you don't know the importance of fossil fuel.

You don't know how many countries wouldn't have power if there were no fossil fuels.

Like you don't know how production is going to go from.

A hundred to zero without fossil fuel in certain parts of the world.

And that's why you can say boldly that this is like, let's

stop all fossil fuel activity.

But, and I hope that this, this helps create some balance.

Like we're not ignorant of the importance of fossil fuels.

We're seeing that can, you know, it's pretty much like, let's

start to have a conversation about how we can have a transition.

and still be productive and still be useful and not be poor and still be

productive, you know, and still be efficient without, you know, um, without

creating more damage to, to the Earth.

Which is, which is really interesting.

I mean, I, I, I, I.

Seen a video today on YouTube and I, and I saw someone really go off on climate

change and she was mad, and it's like, you don't know what you're saying.

Like, and you know, even starting to say that that's

racist, like . Hold on, hold on.

Um, but some of those concerns are, you know, some of the things that we're,

we're, we're also like talking about here, which is, which is really interesting.

Christina, you have a question?

Yeah, I, uh, I just wanted to continue with a branch's, uh, comment about timing.

Uh, in my experience when I was in college, uh, they, I had to work and go to

college and, uh, the work was far away, so I had to use my car and somebody stole my.

. So, wow.

After that, I did not, because there are no buses.

Mm.

It was in the state.

Uh, so for one day it's fine.

I can call in, I cannot make it, but I did not have enough money to buy a new car.

Mm-hmm.

And with the bicycle, it will take, I don't know, half a

day or so , they're like that.

So I thought about timing.

If it's immediate, say, okay, tomorrow we'll stop using everything,

then I can see as a huge problem.

But if it's staggered, and let's say, okay, no more plastic straws.

Mm-hmm.

and slowly for people to understand, we're not gonna.

Use certain plastic for food or um, in something we can

replace it or use glass compare.

And that piece maybe will be that 20% of saving.

And then for medical and other things we can.

they're using, uh, fossil fuels when we really need it before we

figure out what to replace it with.

Mm-hmm.

. So I think for me, one important part is create awareness that yes,

there, there's time to change things, but we have to start now changing or

planning, and that feels more safer.

. And, and that's, that's actually very useful because it's like, well, it, it,

it's probably not, we we're not going to halt or, you know, get to it at once.

So pacing it is, is really helpful.

Um, is really helpful.

I think the other part of this is like, I mean, and, and this

is for innovators and you.

Thinkers, so to say.

It's like we probably need a lot more solutions than we're anticipating

that like there has to be a lot of innovation around alternatives

for fossil fuel because we have to consider so many use cases.

Because fossil fuel seem to be very adaptive as far as use cases go.

Um, it's like, okay, you know, we have to innovate that fast or to, to

consider that, that many use cases.

Perhaps another angle to look at this from is like an angle of what can we do now?

, um, because fossil fuels are not just destroying the earth, they also happen

to be solving problems for humanity.

And the, the, the earlier is, you know, is a byproduct of the later,

which is, you know, pretty much solving problems and facilitating development.

So to see and production, um, as the case may be, and.

and maybe it's helpful to, to, to our listeners to know that we're not

saying that we have to stop fossil fuels and everything related to it.

Right now we have a huge problem and we have to act very fast.

Um, and I think what that places on us is a responsibility to.

To innovate as fast as possible.

I think one of the things that, you know, we talk about systemic change

a lot and we talk about it in a light of like, the government has to

say, well this is what you can do.

This is what you can't do.

Government has to, you know, implement policies that are

healthier for, you know, that help.

More so to say, I think the other sector, That we, we probably haven't

be been talking about as much is like technology, um, innovation.

Some, you know, more like, like let's come up with a lot more options

for a lot more use cases for fossil fuels and make it stupid easy for the

government to say, well, this is, it's.

Well give us a better alternative that serves the purposes that fossil fuel

is serving currently, perhaps at the price that is, you know, serving it.

And we're not saying that it's, it is going to come at the same

price, you know, but it's more like, well, can we dig deep enough to

find better ways of doing things?

Um, that, that just.

, you know, that make it easy.

That makes it easy for policy makers and you know, people in charge

of systems to say, well, we're switching and it's a safe switch.

We're not going to hurt anybody from the switch.

And even if you are being hurt, we have like a plan for you.

You know, just it's, uh, well, I hope the point is getting across anyways,

like, well, we need systemic change, but we also need to innovate as fast as.

to be able to present the system with options.

And I don't know if that's a valid argument, but maybe something to consider.

You know, I think, uh, Brian's reframing of the question is

very, uh, can partly answer this.

The, the question, your question is, okay, if what happened if we

decide to stop 80% of extraction fossil fuels, what do we do with the.

Remaining percent and then, uh, be and those 20, 20% or will be used for

cases where there's no alternatives or alternatives that are, that will

be very unfair to certain people.

Mm-hmm.

certain countries because, uh, you mentioned this talk

by, um, her name is Wade.

Oh, maybe I'm, I'm not saying her name right.

Um, I think she, she said it actually something that you explained is that

somehow I think she explained that.

Okay, that's fine.

If you, we all, uh, if we decide to stop ex using fossil fuel, no.

Um, emerging countries, developing countries will be, will stay, stay

we'll, stay poor and that's the problem.

So, I don't know.

Maybe, you know, those 20% could be useful, those c.

. But I don't know.

It's, it's, it's difficult to make a decision.

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's, so maybe the first question is how can we make decisions?

Yeah.

How to prioritize that.

Yeah.

So, I dunno.

Yeah, I, uh, also, she talked about, on that video, she

talked about entrepreneurship, uh, how to, , create business.

that will move people out of poverty.

And um, so I was thinking about connecting that to the timing of it.

And it remind me of, um, in Czech Republic, a lot of people have little

gardens and, uh, they grow a lot of fruit and vegetables and they are in

this rhythm, especially the older.

Grandparents, they're in this rhythm when they canned things.

And so they save the glass jars in the spring because they finish using up the

jams and canned all the canned fruit and veggies and then store it and then, uh,

gather all the fruit in the fall, make the gems so there is a written to it.

and there it's planned.

It has a yearly rhythm.

And, uh, so they will have something sustainable for next year or if there

is a food shortage, anything like that, they will be able to survive.

And from that, it reminded me of this amazing, uh, vernacular

architecture in Africa and North.

Where they created buildings where you don't need air conditioning and the,

there are certain specific structures that move the air also from the earth,

cool air from the earth all the way up and create wind and movement of the air.

So all these old solutions we forgot, I.

If we come back to it, but have time to put them together, create the buildings,

or do all that stuff to, uh, move faster away from the fossil fuel usage.

So, and another the last thing that if somebody comes up with great, so.

to have some kind of system in the world that the solution can be shared and

not be taken and bought and put away so the big companies can make money.

I think those two things would be really nice.

Yeah.

Yeah, that, that's very, very interesting.

You wanna say something?

I was about to say that I think this is happening in, already happening in

astrophysics, , because there's so little that we know and there's so much to learn.

I think that, uh, And this is something very excited about is that last year

there was a new, uh, telescope that was, it's been launched, well, not

launched, that's starting, uh, sending as images and very sophisticated,

the telescope and the images are so beautiful and, uh, so advanced that

they, um, the use of the, of the images.

Open source now.

It's like, you know, I don't, look, it's open source is , the right term.

But it means that, um, if you're a scientist, an astrophysicist

physicist, you can look at the image and, and work on it.

, because the world, the, the scientific world, realize that there's so

much we need to learn from it.

And so instead of saying, oh, My telescope and I've paid for it,

and only I can use the images that had this telescope has produced.

The, the new way of doing it is like, okay, this is something that we've paid

for, but you are welcome to help us find your, um, find new discoveries.

And that's something I think it's built and I think that's, you know, solutions.

Um, alternatives to, uh, to, uh, climate change should be used that way.

Instead of saying, this is my invention, this is my innovation, and I will milk

the cow and earn as much money Yeah.

As possible.

That is, that is something like that is, is That is absolutely true.

That is, that is very true.

And I hope that people start to see it.

I hope that people start to see it that way.

I really do.

and I think that, you know, related to the, the point of, , about

entrepreneurship and I think it's, it's very, very important point.

There are a lot of solutions.

If you look at the Carbon Almanac, there's a full, yeah, there.

I don't know how many pages of solutions there are lots of solutions.

What is needed is the spread of the solutions, and it could go through

ideas and you through what we are doing, but also what will make

sense is it will spread faster if it makes financial sense for people.

And this goes through entre.

. , I mean, and I would say, uh, if it makes economical sense and also it

makes sense and serves serves a need.

So, the answer to that is probably entrepreneurship.

Yeah, that's, that's true.

Um, I certainly know that for sure because I've, I've heard Elon Musk say this, um,

in an interview, say that, It's not like other people or other companies haven't

been producing electric cars, it's that it is very difficult to produce electric

cars at scale and make a profit out of it.

It's like that is very, extremely difficult, and he was the first person to

crack that code of how to produce electric cars at scale and not go bankrupt.

, and he gives so many examples is like, well, here's this company.

It's bankrupt.

Here's that company, and they're all bankrupt.

Like it's very extremely hard, you know, because of how those cars are produced.

And, and we, we need, we need more of that.

We definitely need more of that.

Um, and perhaps the, I, I think the first interesting takeaway for me

in this conversation is, Contrary.

And, and I hope our listeners get to hear this is a contrary to what, you know,

number of people might think that, right?

If you are talking about climate change, then you're not, then you

don't care about what happens.

Um, you know, if fossil fuels are not used anymore, it's like,

no, that's not what we're seeing.

We actually do care.

, and we're not saying it's one or the other.

What we're saying is like, can we think together and forge a path forward?

That doesn't mean a disaster, you know, because we don't

want the earth to collapse.

We also don't want people to remain poor or die by, you know, by whatever.

You know, consequences of stopping fossil fuels from being used or being, um, you

know, from, from being used generally.

It's like, no, that's not, that's not the case.

We actually do care.

Um, and what we're looking for is a path forward that that works for everyone.

And, and that's, that's probably my, that's my first big takeaway

from, from this conversation.

Actually, um, there's a question I would like to ask you all to wrap

up this discussion is if there is something that we cannot, I mean,

not, not that we cannot comprise.

If there's something we are forced to still use fossil fuels based product.

because we need to, you know, to decide , we cannot quit, tomorrow.

So if there's one thing we really, really, really need, , to focus , if

there's something we cannot do without fossil fuel, , what would that be?

Yeah.

I, oh, I guess I can chime and, , so far I see.

a lot of medical equipment, seems like one of the most important, but because

it's so emotional and uh, life dependent and, uh, but with new plant-based

products, we might have our way out.

and I would say for me, the change in people's behavior is the one

which is really hard to shift.

So not as the material but the behavior.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's an interesting answer.

, but maybe there is a way.

Yeah, go ahead.

I guess mine, I don't know if there's a, one thing I think I might lean

towards your answer, um, Christina, but if there is perhaps say,

hmm, if my, it might be to reserve it for the zero.

Alternative or developing probably the zero alternative options or for,

you know, the least able to access alternative sources of, um, fossil fuel.

So probably referring to.

Regions that might not be able to afford clean energy or certain

other types of alternatives, depending on what the case might be.

, yeah, I, I think that that'll be it.

It's like, well, let's reserve it for the ones that needed the most, more

like, And yeah, that's it for me, . And as for me, since, uh, Christina.

Use my , my solution , uh, um, . I'm kinda the one which is I think

before we get, we all transition our transportation system to, um,

to electrical safer, cleaner energy.

We still have cases of emergency, like, you know, um, Like, we need to

travel very fast to rescue people, like in case there's someone has an

accident or in case of a disaster.

And this, I think these are the thing that I would reserve, uh, my,

uh, my facility or my petrol Yeah.

, for this kind of, um, transportation.

But yeah, I, I guess the summary is that we just wanna have conversations that

move us forward . . And we hope that if you, if you're listening to this, that

you're encouraged to ask some of this really complex and difficult questions

that you probably do not have answers to.

And, and if you ask about 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, maybe 10 times, well, you might,

you might get an answer and, and move forward or get a better question.

You know, like me and I came, I came with a question and say, and I said, let's.

What if we stopped it and while we hadn't even gotten an answer,

Brian said, oh, you know, I might be able to frame that in a better way.

And, and that's coming from, you know, the first question.

And so sometimes a question is just a path forward.

Even though we don't get an answer, it, it leads us some.

That is better off than where we're we started at.

And so, yeah, I, I hope that helps.

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