J.F. Monroe writes fantasy that cuts through the noise,sharp dialogue, tight pacing. When characters that actually feel human; even when they’re not. We talked about The Legendary Guardians, her fast-moving fantasy series. Built on character depth over endless world-building. She opens up about writing from New York grit, balancing motherhood and authorship. Learning how to publish on her own terms.

The conversation moves from Lord of the Rings, and Stephen King. To nostalgia, film, and how simplicity can make a story timeless. J.F. shares why she skips a hundred pages of lore to focus on what matters, how her characters feel. It’s raw, honest, and full of that underground creative energy. That makes storytelling feel alive again!

Where to Find J.F. Monroe?

🌐 Website: jfmonroebookshelf.com

📚 Work: The Legendary Guardians (Fantasy Series)

https://www.amazon.com/stores/J.F.-Monroe/author/B0DCGCNRTH?isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true&ccs_id=b6ae214e-9941-489a-913f-26d472b82f60

📲 Social: @jf.monroe

Do you remember that?

J.F. Monroe: Yes,

Dave: like, insane. Like you'd come there and it was like packed and everybody was like, waiting. And now you literally go there. It's just a stupid carousel in the middle with like, like little Tokyo, like this overpriced, like Japanese restaurant and all this bullshit. And you're like,

J.F. Monroe: Yes.

Dave: why?

It's so random. But like, if you remember from the past, it makes total sense.

J.F. Monroe: The carousel never works.

Dave: Never.

J.F. Monroe: I go, it's just kind of like a staple now, like

Dave: Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: just here it is, but you can't go on it. You can never go on

You know, Westchester kinda had like the upper class communities. You kinda have a little bit of the working class, you got

J.F. Monroe: Right.

Dave: sh now it's just whoa and Pal. Jose was just like, you know, it just had, it had Circuit City, you know, it had tower records at one point. It's crazy. I don't even know what that is, but I remember that.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah. It's impressive. It's impressive.

Dave: And now it's just like the last time I was there, I just like walked around and like to your point with like that whole crazy thing, what the hell happened to this place?

Dave: Matt,

J.F. Monroe: recently. I, one of my favorite, um, movies as a child was Fern Gully, right? I don't even know if you know it. Like, do you know what Fern Gully? Do you know

Dave: Was that one of those random like VHS you can get like for 5 99 at a Blockbuster

J.F. Monroe: So

Dave: fur and gully. Okay.

J.F. Monroe: fairies and it was amazing and for some reason. kept telling him about this incredible battle that took place in Fern Gully, and I was like, it was crazy. And it's epic. And they

Dave: I know what this is.

J.F. Monroe: the monster and it's just, it's outrageous. And

Dave: It's insane.

J.F. Monroe: to sit down and watch it with me.

And so we're watching it and it's

Dave: It's with the little people. Yes,

J.F. Monroe: little people. Yeah.

Dave: the little with the wings. Oh my God. And the weird, bad thing. Yeah. I know what this is.

Dave: Wait, the

J.F. Monroe: watching it and he's like, when is this battle going to take place?

Dave: wait. There's no battle.

J.F. Monroe: I think it just did because it was just nostalgia. It does weird things to you. I hyped this movie up as like a crazy battle took place between these fairies and this like pollution monster

Dave: Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: nothing. It was nothing.

Nothing happened. And so he needless to say, does not trust me when it comes to old time movies that I'm like, let me tell you how great this was. He's like, no. Is there a battle in it? Because, no, I'm done. So,

So like I explain to people that I have like PTSD and like trauma moments watching Lilo and Stitch. Nobody believes me until you actually sit me down watching the film and I'm just balls out crying and having a freaking, a panic attack. But I keep watching it because I love it.

J.F. Monroe: Right.

Dave: What's so bizarre is when you watch the new version, it's your brain is just so used to the cartoony, the,

J.F. Monroe: Yes.

Dave: and then when you watch the original one, right?

J.F. Monroe: No

Dave: brain

J.F. Monroe: nostalgia

Dave: your brain.

J.F. Monroe: I'm, it's real.

Dave: It's so real. And what do you do with it? That's, that's the question. Do you like then cherish and hold onto the memories and then never try to relive those memories.

You don't tarnish them. I don't know. 'cause I kind of wanna rewatch black cauldron even though I, I really know I should not, I, I really shouldn't.

J.F. Monroe: I'd still watch Fern Gully, so I, what does that say about us? I feel like I'm leaning more towards, we're just gonna indulge the nostalgia brain and keep watching what we like and we'll figure it out.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: they were pretty basic, pretty simple.

Today, it's just like the character has every kind of gender and pronoun you could possibly think of. It has every single kind of narrative. You could possibly manage it. And now the princess is the prince. You're just like, whoa, whoa. What did I sign myself up for over here? It's just so bizarre how different parallels that is of just like, simple, nostalgic, great storytelling, storytelling to storytelling to, to, it's just, I, I don't know.

I can't wrap my head around it.

Dave: Yeah, like Pixar.

J.F. Monroe: the Lion King and the Little Mermaid and beauty and the beast,

Dave: Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: I'm just like, that's, that's the stories that that grew up with. And so they're just gonna always stick with me as timeless. However, I do love a good frozen story. Um, I try to get on board with as many Disney ones as I can, but if you don't have like a foundational story that I can follow, you're gonna lose me real quick.

But if you start like forcing different things and trying to add certain things in order to make it work and try to overcomplicate and overexplain things, it gets really boring and stupid. You know what I mean? It's like I, I don't need you to explain to me the inner workings of a dragon. Just,

J.F. Monroe: Fair.

Dave: yeah, it just have it spitting out acid, like it's cool.

I'd love to hear how they dragon's actually doing that shit. That's awesome. But you don't have to go through all the mechanics. I don't even know how the throat is actually working. Please,

Dave: you have to Come on. You from New York, honey? Come on.

J.F. Monroe: Uh, you. That's very true. Yes, exactly. And so it's not just fantasy, it's like, it's hard, it's fiction, it's all that stuff.

Um, and so when I started to write, I was

Dave: Sorry,

J.F. Monroe: I know what I'm pretty good at and I know what I'm not good at. And so I'm gonna try to stick with what I'm good at and try to like, it work within this story. And so, details, from New York, right? So we're just gonna, that's gonna be the theme of this, of this podcast right now. Details

Dave: Hmm.

First of all, they're like 600 to 800 pages. That's a triumph in and of itself. But when I'm reading it, I realize like 300 of those pages is world building. And I think that's incredibly fascinating. It's not, it's not for me. It's not my cup of tea. And so when I wrote these books, I was more of character building character relationships.

Dave: Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: of follow those characters on that journey.

Dave: Yeah. I mean, I, I'm just, my personal opinion when it comes to, like, even writers, like JR r Martin, you know, the creator of Game of Thrones, I like the TV show better than his books. Because he does the exact opposite what you mentioned it, he goes so in depth sometimes and completely veers in the wrong direction.

J.F. Monroe: No, I

Dave: you're, you're, you're in these different dynamics.

So whenever you're, depending on the episode, whoever the story, whoever's the writer's behind these stories, you're like, what's going on in their head? Like, what are they going through on this? That is interesting because you have a writer that writes a book, but the book does exactly the opposite of what its television adaption does.

J.F. Monroe: Yes. I love that analogy because that's how of focused in on my books, which has its pros and cons, I'm not gonna lie. So like George R. Martin? Yes. He's, to me personally, overly detailed in his books. His books are very long, they shift perspectives. It's hard to keep up. It's, it's, it's a challenge. It is a challenge.

Where you kind of just zone out and you're like. You kind of lost me. I'm, I'm kind of over this book. I'll wait for the TV adaptation or something like that.

Dave: Yeah, I mean, sorry, I, I love throwing out analogies, but

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: you know, when you go into even parallels, right? In one, this is where one of my favorite Stephen King books is Pet Cemetery. It's like the most under underrated book that he's ever written. And I think the reason is is because it's so simple. You know, I've read Pet Cemetery and you're just like, you get to, you get to that, it's called a golden chapter, and then you're just like.

J.F. Monroe: Right.

Dave: it, you feel comfortable, you know, you're not, you're not peeing in urinating in your pants when you're watching The Shining, which I promise you, if you read the book, that's gonna happen.

I promise you're gonna have that moment. It happens

J.F. Monroe: Yes. No, I agree. Salem's lot is my favorite Stephen King book.

Dave: really.

J.F. Monroe: and it has vibes. You have to get through the beginning a little bit. You know,

Dave: Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: you a little backstory. You get

Dave: A little slow

Dave: and deja vu. Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: that golden chapter where I was, act like I'm, it takes a lot for me to get like. A little spooked when it comes to things like that. And that book, he got me spooked like that. Those last couple of chapters. I was like, okay, this is, this is pretty alarming. Like this is, this is a little, is in, this is intriguing to me,

Dave: Stephen, Stephen King's drug era. I don't know. I, I don't know. It, it's, it's so bizarre, right? Because you're an author, you know, to think about another author that wrote some of the most horrifying stories while under the influence of really strong drugs, doesn't even remember what he wrote. What?

J.F. Monroe: I

Dave: What, how, you know, like if you're drunk, could you like sit down and start writing a chapter, like you take like a bump.

J.F. Monroe: No, I, the, the closest I can relate to that ever, just like ever, I was ridiculously tired. One day I had done like a full shift. I'm a mom of a crazy 7-year-old. We were jamming out real late. I put him to bed, I sat down. I was like, let's get to writing. I cannot tell you, like my eyeballs probably should have been taped.

That's how exhausted I was. Don't remember typing anything. Passed out on the couch. Woke up, had like five pages written. And do you remember in The Shining when he types that sentence over and over and over again? That's what it looked like on my screen, except it was just, it started off pretty good. I will give myself some props there like it did start off okay.

Dave: Wow. All we can say is the human mind is extremely powerful. It isn't, has ability to create jewelry outta nowhere. It's like I,

J.F. Monroe: that's my most intriguing story that I could tell you. I mean, Stephen King probably had much better stories to tell, obviously, like those stories came out of that. No, not for me. Can't, can't go there.

Like, not in the sense of like serial killer and like, you know, like sociopath or psychopath or anything like that, but you have to have a mind where those kind of thoughts and those ideas. Linger. You know, maybe in the back of your mind, maybe in your subconscious, and again, this is kind of a bizarre thought, but maybe, maybe that's kind of how also like some of the most like psychotic people exist sometimes the way that they're being raised or the sometimes way that they're being treated can lead to them eventually becoming really ruthless murderers.

Maybe that's how he's able to do that because of how his mind works. I.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah, I can get behind that. I think that everyone should have some type of outlet and that when you don't have an outlet, whether that's creative or just some type of passion, it can definitely take a turn for the worst. You don't wanna obviously like bottle up or internalize things like that.

Dave: No. Now we, we, we've seen how that has played out over history. Um,

J.F. Monroe: Just a bit. Just a

Dave: yeah, there's a lot of documentaries on Netflix that can help you out, uh, for that explanation. Never really ended well. Never.

J.F. Monroe: no. Never really had a

Dave: No,

J.F. Monroe: that way. So.

J.F. Monroe: Okay.

Dave: It, it looks like a modern movie.

J.F. Monroe: It's nice.

Dave: How the, like again to the idea of being able to write and create stories. Just being able to do that, you know, as an artist, it's just like, it's mind blowing. Even after 50 years, it still holds up to the testament of time

J.F. Monroe: Yeah, it ages really well.

J.F. Monroe: I don't think I'd have to ask him much. He seems like the type that would just start talking and I would just be happy to listen. Like, I feel like that's, that's what would happen. Um, he is somebody that I've only seen, like very rare have I seen him, like on tv, like speaking with other people. I've usually heard through actors, like how they describe him. And so from there I'm like, oh, I don't have to say anything. Maybe like, hello, like, Hey, how are you? I'm, you know, I'm jf and he'd be

Dave: Hey Cube.

J.F. Monroe: And then he would, he'd

Dave: Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: it.

Dave: You could be like, Hey Cube, what's up? You know?

J.F. Monroe: And he would just be like, Hey, let me tell you about this. And I'm like, all right, let's go. You just, you keep talking.

I'm gonna go ahead and listen,

J.F. Monroe: okay. Okay.

Dave: But what you do see is the differences of parallel of creativity of stories.

It's not always the best stories, it's not the most elaborate, most in sometimes all it takes is just you being able to spark emotion, just the way that you are mimicking the, the, the words or the chapters or the paragraphs or the conversation between characters. I don't think there is a magic formula.

'cause you know, you, like we've discussed, like you take somebody like Stephen King compared to Stanley Kubrick, two completely different worlds. You know, you go to JR and Martin also completely different worlds. But for some odd reason, they all kind of share the same thing. They're able to create through their own mind, they're through their own ideas, their own words.

J.F. Monroe: Yep.

Dave: Even though it's a niche, which is interesting,

J.F. Monroe: No, I agree. I absolutely agree, and I think different people are just good at different things. Um, and so what they bring to the table is obviously gonna dwell a little bit more with their strengths. And so like what I try to do is, you know, I'm really big on character development and so my characters, I'm gonna make you love my characters.

You could hate my world building. You could hate the, like, hate whichever you want.

Dave: why are the trees plastic? Don't matter. Don't, don't care. Skip,

J.F. Monroe: Don't worry, don't worry

Dave: worry.

J.F. Monroe: trees. Like, I need you to focus on the characters and so I'm gonna make you love those characters. 'cause that's what I feel my strength. so I think that with other authors out there, they're gonna of course cater to what they're good at, right?

But you're gonna get to know those characters up front and center.

Dave: Yeah. And the, I'm sorry, I'm like going back and forth with, uh, what was the, the first one to the legendary guardians.

J.F. Monroe: legendary guardians. Yeah.

Dave: Okay. And there's a, how many are there? There's four. You've written? Total of four. Wow.

J.F. Monroe: There's three. There's gonna be three. The second one just got released on the 15th,

Dave: Damn, damn. You're not holding back. You keep going, you keep going?

Dave: Mm-hmm.

J.F. Monroe: has to be told. I can't just like half-ass it. So it's like the first part was great. It set the foundation. Everybody's united. Awesome. Now we're going on the journey of, you know, where they gotta go through the lands, fighting the bad guys.

And then I bring it home with the third book. Like it's

Dave: What's,

J.F. Monroe: wrapped up in a bow.

Dave: what's interesting about the cover, and I'll tell you like straight up, if, if like, especially it's reminding me of Lord of the Rings specifically, you know, the, the kings,

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: the ones that ride the horses.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah. The no school I,

Dave: Whoa.

J.F. Monroe: really huge, that's a compliment to me.

Dave: Oh my God.

J.F. Monroe: say something about Lord of the Rings and my book in the same sentence and I almost. Passed out on the screen. like a huge, like, I'm not gonna be able to touch books like that, but just, just hearing it in the same sentence as my book is good enough for me.

Dave: Well,

J.F. Monroe: run with that compliment so

Dave: you know what, you know what it is? It's weird, you know, uh, JR Tolkien, he passed away a long time ago, and when Peter Jackson came along and he created the Lord of the Rings, the, the first, the first three movies, he really respected the author. And that was, that was something that was really incredible.

He was, in a way creating a film, adaption of the film. It, there is a lot of differences, but there was this, this still level of respect. The Hobbit, this is a whole different story for another time, but yeah, the, the Lord of the Rings though. Especially when it comes to the character, because he does, in JR.

I love that shit.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah, me too. I love his entire story in general. Um, you know, he got a, he fought in the war, and so he pulled a lot of that. A lot of those experiences and put them in his book. And

Dave: I.

J.F. Monroe: when he writes about like, good versus evil and good prevailing and like kindness, like choosing kindness with like Frodo and things like that, he, he set the bar really, really high.

And so

Dave: For fantasy writing?

J.F. Monroe: of,

Dave: Yeah, like really high. Like he's the top

J.F. Monroe: he, to me,

Dave: he's, he's the top.

J.F. Monroe: like in like personally, there's, there's other good ones and then there's him. And so,

J.F. Monroe: I know

Dave: me. He made multiple languages, not one language, multiple languages.

J.F. Monroe: He just like, I try to think for a second what he probably saw like out there in the real world during the war and like then he came back and he wrote this beautiful, beautiful, these books. And so I love his books. I love the movies, but I also really, really enjoy like his story, like his origin story of how everything came to be. Um, so it makes it a little bit more special. And so when I started writing these books, I wanted to follow that type of journey like, it's a pretty simple story.

If you strip it bare bones, they have a powerful rank. They are trying to get it to more door. And as they go through their journey, they encounter sub challenges along the way and they

Dave: An adventure.

J.F. Monroe: they are.

Dave: Yeah.

Dave: You know what

J.F. Monroe: a great thing.

Dave: it is? I, I was just thinking about this and it, it kind of like irritates me a little bit. We know that there were multiple wizards in the Lord of the Rings. You know, there was the gray, the white gray one was the same wizard, and then there was the brown and then there was the two blue ones.

They were like twins or something, or I think it was just one.

J.F. Monroe: Yes,

Dave: And they came out with a television series from Amazon that, um, I think if JR Token was alive, we might've seen 'em a lot on television swearing, like a lot, they,

J.F. Monroe: I have. Yeah.

Detailed adaption and context that JR. Tolkien went over explaining wizardry and magic. Did nobody tell the directors or the writers this, like the Ilian is available in Barnes and Nobles and Amazon? I, I don't know about you, but like I, we can get a link right now. Wasn't that hard.

J.F. Monroe: I know I can't talk too much on this. I immediately, um, stopped watching it, um, because I realized it wasn't going to be what I had initially hoped it to be.

Dave: It's not accurate at all.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: It's a made up story.

Dave: The wizard scene. That wizard scene killed me.

J.F. Monroe: this and also like Soran is bad.

Like he is evil. That is what he is supposed to be. And I really like got up, I, I got upset because it's a show and whatever, but like I got frustrated because I was like, I. Based a lot of my

Dave: I.

J.F. Monroe: like that Lord of the Rings trajectory. And I love that. Good versus evil. I don't want a redemption story.

The same thing like elves, actually elves, they're spiritual entities. The reason why they live thousands of years, they're not totally like physical. They have also spiritual things that keep them alive.

Like the Tolkien family is still alive to this day. People, okay, they're not dead. You know, just because JR Tolkien's not alive anymore doesn't mean like his legacy is gone. It's like you're disrespecting one of the families that holds some of the highest fantasy writing ever written in human history up until this point.

Like for what? For money. See, that pisses me off. It's like, okay, so is this about money? Is this about like viewership? Is this about ads?

J.F. Monroe: I don't know. I have, I honestly have no idea because like I said, they have the material that I think people would want so why? Why change it at all?

J.F. Monroe: They're definitely doing it for, for

Dave: for attractions.

J.F. Monroe: some of the, yeah, some of the stuff they come up with is ridiculous. But I will stand by this and, or was amazing

Dave: Really,

J.F. Monroe: I liked it. It was two seasons. It kept to the, it was like 95% to the, to the lower. I was like, yes, Andor was cool. I liked it. It was dark, it was gritty.

And it led right up until, um, the movie Andor.

So there were some creative people that kind of came along and kind of created a story and got basically George Lucas approval on it. And that was like one of the only like Disney, like Star Wars movies that actually like, was based on, you know, George, like the Lucas approved like Star Wars. There's nobody that's saved, they all die.

'cause that's what happens in New Hope, you

J.F. Monroe: yeah.

Dave: it played out exactly how, and it, you know what's crazy, you know, everybody gets pissed off as it's like, how dare they use deep fake? How dare they? I'm like, I don't see it as a problem. I mean, he was alive in New Hope. Wouldn't it make sense for him to be in Rogue One?

I get it's like a 40 year difference. Sorry. Excuse me. 30 year difference, but like, even still.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: Right. You know,

J.F. Monroe: Yeah,

J.F. Monroe: it would.

Dave: a new hope. No pun intended.

J.F. Monroe: I liked it. And also it didn't mess with anything like it didn't mess with the originals. It was just a backstory. And

Dave: Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: that as well. Like I was like, all right, you're not touching the originals. just telling a story about Cassie and and or, he's pretty cool.

I like the TV show. It elaborated on that. I was like, okay. But it didn't touch it just like it had little Easter eggs, which I can appreciate, but it never touched the originals and I was just like, okay, this is cool. I can, I can get on board with this one.

Dave: See, the way that I see Rogue One is the same way. Like if we touch into Lord of the Rings, they could have made a ilian. TV series, like we have tons of TV series these days that are hour, like an hour long episode, sometimes 58 minutes. I know that the Ilian can be a little bit boring. It is a little bit boring, but with, you know, some special effects and some cool music, you know, you could, you could make it kind of interesting.

J.F. Monroe: Exactly, like just, you're not gonna know until you try it, so just give it a chance.

Dave: gonna be, it's probably gonna be the weirdest Lord of, if anybody ever makes a TV series a Lord of the Rings, like the Ilion, I guarantee you you're gonna got a bunch of people are gonna be watching the first episode and being like, what the fuck am I watching?

J.F. Monroe: I'm gonna root for it. I'll watch it. I might say that same thing, but I will still watch it. at it. I'm like, no, I'm gonna stay with it. Let's see where it goes.

Dave: Are we gonna get like Snow White, CGI with the dwarfs, you know? Or like, are we gonna get like a little bit better? CGI, because like just,

J.F. Monroe: do better.

Dave: oh my God.

J.F. Monroe: do better with the CGI. We're too far advanced for them to be doing that. With the C do better?

J.F. Monroe: Yes.

Dave: was the most insane animation I've ever seen. And like a couple years before that, you had Toy Story, which even in the nineties was just like, wait, they're, they're, they're not animated, they're like digital.

J.F. Monroe: Do better.

Dave: It's crazy. It's, it's just, and look, if we wanna talk about on that whole computer and CGI thing, right? Pixar was kind of like a pioneer with this stuff. Now, can I be honest? Like, it kind of suck. Like it came with Eno or Eno or Ena. I, I don't know, something. See, like you don't even know, like, I, I only know about the,

J.F. Monroe: like, I don't even know who that

Dave: I don't even know.

J.F. Monroe: Right.

Dave: and they're still freaking amazing. I mean, I'm gonna be shared up honestly with Shrek one compared to Shrek four.

I like this. I like the anim, like the animation, cgi, I, and like Shrek one and Shrek two compared to Shrek four. I don't know what it is. It's like we get worse. How do you get worse? Aren't we supposed to get.

J.F. Monroe: know. I cannot figure it out. 'cause Shark one holds a very special place in my heart. love, like, I love, I like the, I like all of 'em. I'll get through all of 'em, but like

Dave: I like the first two.

J.F. Monroe: Two's great. I'm not downplaying two. I just like, one was so different from anything I had seen up until that point,

Dave: Even me?

J.F. Monroe: just

Dave: Yeah.

Dave: Three.

J.F. Monroe: a little bit better.

Dave: Yeah. I mean, three gets a little interesting as you're watching it, you know, you're like, wait a minute. Is, is the Trek like become more normalized? Like how did that happen? It was weird. It was like,

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: just so calm and like relaxed and

J.F. Monroe: yes.

Dave: yeah, I mean, I.

J.F. Monroe: related to him in one because he was so grumpy and he was like, get outta my swamp. Like, I'm like, yes, that's what I yell at people all the time. Like, I'm like, get off my land. Very, very Clint Eastwood. So I'm like, get off. Um,

Dave: Hmm.

J.F. Monroe: so I loved him. I was like, yes, he just wants to be in his swamp house by himself.

Everybody leave him alone. Like just leave him be and nobody would leave him alone. And then he went and did amazing things and I was like, perfect.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: know, and you thinking about it and then seeing it, you're like, okay, these people were really pissed at Disney.

I mean, you know, like this scene where you've got like Snow White on the coffin on the table, he's like. No dead things on the table and he just like throws the fucking thing off. You know? Like that is just complete like, fuck you Disney,

J.F. Monroe: I forgot about that

Dave: Yeah. All the wolf in the bed. You're like, what?

J.F. Monroe: Yes.

Dave: just like, oh my God.

J.F. Monroe: Shrek is a, I'm gonna have to rewatch that one.

J.F. Monroe: I know.

Let's just say that. I like keep on watching it for obvious reasons. Okay. Like there's so many things in that movie that like, first off, besides him being grumpy, he's disgusting. Two, you've got this donkey, like, let's be honest, it played by a black man and.

J.F. Monroe: I love donkey.

Dave: Yeah, and they're like, if we remember back in the day, like donkey were like jackasses.

It was kind of related always to black. Like there's a lot of like little sarcastic little racial jokes in there. It gets a little gay, it does get a little gay,

J.F. Monroe: It's

Dave: they huffed and then they puffed and the house down. Little pig,

J.F. Monroe: that very well. That's a little alarming. That was really good. That was really good. I acted like I heard it and then I saw them and I was like, oh, okay. That was really great. Like

Dave: the three little piggies.

Dave: But like

J.F. Monroe: gosh.

Dave: that to me is just where you have just this blend of something just incredible. And it's not always about, and that, that's what I'm, I was touching on even earlier. It's not always about having the best things. It's not always having the best, you know, overly expensive, complicated, you know, software and bullshit to people.

It's just being able to have a goddamn story, sit down at a freaking table and be able to write it and create it

J.F. Monroe: Right.

Dave: as boring as fuck as that is that that's as simple as it is. It's just

J.F. Monroe: It's effective.

Dave: it.

Like it was, but you grew to that. Like you grew to that lesson and it was so subtle and it was so pretty and it was so lovely. And then now I feel like with Disney, recently they just, they shove messages down people's throats. Like that's what they aim for. And it's like, no, you don't have to do that.

Just sit down, like you said, tell a story and the messages will come. will just, they will be there. You don't have to like pinpoint exactly where you're going to insert each message that you wanna like scream at people.

Dave: Right. Like we, you remember Aladdin. Aladin had Robin Williams where he.

J.F. Monroe: I know,

You, you make a story and then you have no idea for a character. That's pretty much through the entire, sometimes that's it.

J.F. Monroe: Yes.

Dave: Character develops itself.

J.F. Monroe: Yes, I agree with that. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Uh, sometimes a character just tells you their story. That's it.

Dave: Have you ever seen the original version of The Genie from Aladdin before Robin Williams came along?

J.F. Monroe: I've

Dave: Let me,

J.F. Monroe: of it. I

Dave: let me, let me,

J.F. Monroe: it.

Dave: let me, let me see if I can. Um, it was bad. It was not good.

J.F. Monroe: sure it was.

I like, I've definitely seen a lot of those stories where you, you know, you've read it, you've heard it, you've watched it, and then when you find out how the character was originally designed, you're like, wait, what?

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: No way.

J.F. Monroe: No, I, I agree with that 100%. There's a character in my book that was supposed to have like two lines, and they're still with me in book two, so they're still going strong. I, I completely agree with sometimes the character just kinda has a mind of its own and, and grows from, from the origins that it was given.

Dave: And I mean, like you are, you're currently working on book four or book three three. You're working on book three

J.F. Monroe: Yep.

J.F. Monroe: Yes. Yeah. It's, it's the conclusion to the first two books, so it's basically the end of the journey.

Dave: Wow.

Damn. And do you, do you plan on continuing the series or you plan on kind of progressing it to something else?

J.F. Monroe: That's a great question. Um, I know it's gonna be very difficult for me to let this trilogy go. I've spent a lot of time with it and its characters. and so I think just to make sure

Dave: I just sent it to you.

Dave: Now, you know what I, I think that's really interesting, right? Because we were talking about JR r Tolkien and Jr. R Tolkien kind of ran into that thing where he pretty much only wrote, you know, middle Earth and Lord of the, like that that's pretty much his chronology of like all of his books. And he never kind of veered out into anything really else.

Which don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with that. I mean, I think he created pretty extensive, pretty lengthy, but that is an interesting idea of like. Am I gonna go a completely different direction or am I just gonna try to continue this as best as I can?

And so it's very weird to like not have them around or constantly be thinking about them. Um, and side note, the genie, I thought it was gonna look way worse than it does. I'm actually pretty impressed with how it came out gonna lie. I was really worried when I clicked on the image. Um. And No, I'm not, you know, it, I like, obviously the image they went with and, and what, who, Robin Williams kind of turned the genie into. Um, but yeah, this, I can roll with this. This isn't, you know, this isn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be.

You know, for a lot of reasons. A lot of us sometimes come from immigrant. We have immigrant grandparents, you know, and they got really sentimental, especially like they went through the Great Depression. So you kind of get a little bit of that, and I'm not, you know, it, I'm not saying that you should let go of everything in your life, but there is that sentimental mentality of we're, when you create something or something that means something to you, you can't just, you know, take out that little stabby stabby knife and you just be like, yeah, yeah.

And so it's just getting used to that. The second book was a lot easier. I'm sure the third book will be a lot easier to release, but now it's that stage of, alright, now it's done.

Dave: Now, what do you do?

J.F. Monroe: Yeah. Like what happens now? And so letting go is completely and totally healthy and it will happen. I just don't know when, because this is a completely new thing for me.

Dave: Jesus. No, and it, we talked about this earlier, especially with Game of Thrones. You know, I feel that he never really let go and he's still, he's really, really trying to hold onto it. And don't get me wrong, like there's, there's a lot of books. I think a little too much, you know?

J.F. Monroe: let go.

Dave: Yeah. I mean, how much can you milk?

How much can you milk the cow until

J.F. Monroe: he needs to let go. Like for all of us, he needs

Dave: he needs to let go?

J.F. Monroe: Yeah, me, I can. I'm not at that level yet. Like I could sit with it for a while, like that's my journey. I can have a

Dave: No, but that's like the opposite side of what happens, you know?

J.F. Monroe: let

Dave: But

J.F. Monroe: Like I wish I could tell him. So that would be what I would do if I got to meet him.

Dave: yeah,

J.F. Monroe: need to let go.

Dave: it's, um,

it's a hard thing, especially when you're, when you're creative and you have passions and things. It's obviously, you know, some of those things are very personal to yourself. Like you said, being able to let that out and be able to communicate with the world and kind of share that is very, very hard. I think what people kind of tend to forget is a lot of the times very successful artists or sometimes artists that get successful in niche and kind of create their own little it, it's not because they're trying to get attention, it's because they're showing the most truest version of themselves.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah. It's why I try to be as respectful as possible when, like, speaking about other people's work. I never wanna put it down because who knows what it took for them to like, get it out, right? Like, and, and, and release it to the world. I think that's a very powerful thing and it's a very vulnerable thing. Um, so I try not to be like a harsh critic on it. I have no right to be, but if it's something that's like grossing a ton of money, I think it's normal people to talk about it. And so when it comes to like the George RR Martins of the World, or

Dave: Stephen King.

I'll never say like a negative thing about them. Well, I provide feedback if they ever ask me 100%, but I would never say anything negative about them. 'cause they're just trying to make it and it's really hard. Like

I feel like there's so much more that you can learn about a person when you can just randomly just jump to like 45 minutes and just start listening for 10 or 15 minutes, you know, or wherever you wanna start. I feel limiting people's scope and telling them exactly what they should be seeing and what they shouldn't be seeing based off of trends and be, I don't see that as being creative.

I just see that as a marketing strategy. Don't get me wrong, marketing could be very creative, but that's not, you're not a marketing strategist. I'm not a marketing strategist. You know, like that. That's not your why. You're veering in. Why would you wanna veer in that direction? You know, it's just.

Like you don't have to be great at it. But like, you have to try to get the word, if you want people to read your book, like you have to get the word out.

Dave: Obviously.

J.F. Monroe: it's very rare that it's gonna like blow up overnight. So I do see the strategy behind it. Do I like it? No, I hate it. I hate marketing. I like, I will be the first to tell.

It's awful. Like if you look at my tiktoks, they are the most awkward cringes things. Like, I hate them. I look at them and I'm like, I'm out here in the world now and this is, this is what they're gonna see. Um,

Dave: Oh my God.

J.F. Monroe: have to, because you know, I went from having zero readers to like, know. Several dozen readers.

Dave: It's being able to balance it out. You know, it's not, I, I, I think the, the idea of game, the Game of Luck, or the Game of Chance, it's not, it's a game of fate. It's, you know, we like to believe this idea and attitude of we're, you know, oh, well, if you work hard, it doesn't guarantee you anything. Yes it does.

'cause if you work hard towards something and you figure it out, even though you may not be successful in it, now you have the tools and the ability to utilize those things for something completely different

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: instead of beating yourself up alive and asking yourself the question why you're constantly a failure.

You know, like I'm trying to help them with a book cover and it's just like, doesn't fit. I'm like, shit, okay, fuck. And then like, go, I'm going back and like moving things around. I'm like, put it back and like, I don't know if this is gonna pre like. You know what I mean? Totally. These are all of the different things you just gotta be able to utilize and figure out in order to have the balance.

J.F. Monroe: that's it. If you want the book out there, you gotta put in the work and it will be successful if you do try, like you said, like just give it the good old fashioned try. my book one was a complete learning experience for me. It was like, learn as you go. And, and that's exactly how it's portrayed. That's what I call it in every single thing I talk about with it.

Dave: Yeah. And it's true, like one of the things that I really tried really hitting on very heavily is we're, if you, if you try to structure things down to a ledger, see Touching on New York, one of those things we are, and I, I always remember this, especially in the wintertime, if you're one of those dumb asses that think that you can plan out your day in January, okay, I wish you the best of luck.

Yeah. You ever heard of random snowfall and it just goes dark at one o'clock in the afternoon.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: Places are closing early 'cause they're afraid of the heavy freezing.

J.F. Monroe: Yep.

Dave: You know, like you can't.

J.F. Monroe: I.

But the really interesting is right, you create one thing and then when it's time to make another book, it becomes just so much more simple because now you have all those tools and those different things to be able to,

sometimes just you, you gotta just admit that failure and sucking and just not having the greatest experience at first. That happens with a lot of things in life. Like I, I think this whole like social trend of life being perfect, you know, and being like it's just so fake and it's just so unrealistic.

You know, like,

J.F. Monroe: Yes.

Dave: yeah. But you don't, you decide to put your work and energy and all the things that you have and figure out what you can have time with, how you can utilize, I think it's just also about, like, we've talked about balance. I think it's also has to do with mindset as well. You know, it's interesting.

We've covered like character development, mindset, balance, JR. Martin and jr. There's too many jrs.

J.F. Monroe: it's okay. Don't worry about it. I know what you're talking about.

Dave: It's hard, you know, it's like, it's, it's so bizarre. It's so bizarre with the, the name. But you know what, thank God you have, um, acronyms and subtitles and distractions.

J.F. Monroe: Yes. Yes,

And uh, it is bizarre of how like, oh my God, the week gone by and it's not the weekend, let's relax. It's like, nah,

J.F. Monroe: No,

Dave: nah, this is, this is

J.F. Monroe: It's gluttons for punishment over here. We just, you know, that's how we roll.

Dave: just smell the sewer and hope you don't get, you don't step in. Shit. I've had that happen. Oh my God, I've had that happen. Have you ever had that happen to you before? When I was in this, so I had this happen to me maybe like 14 years ago. I went onto the five train and um, it was in the Bronx, so you had to like walk up the hill and then walk down these stairs.

J.F. Monroe: Yeah.

Dave: And I was, as I was walking down the stairs, I felt a like, just like a squish. It wasn't dog shit.

Dave: It's gone. It's gone. But any news. Yeah, that was my bizarre. I'm sure you've had,

J.F. Monroe: train. Like I've lived in the, I lived in the Bronx for most of my life. I just moved to Westchester three years ago. Um, but I lived on Pelham Parkway in the Bronx. And So you're talking about a hill, are you talking about,

Dave: yeah.

J.F. Monroe: you talking about Morris Park?

Dave: Yeah. I'm talking about Morris Park. I lived off of Mullander Avenue.

J.F. Monroe: Oh, nice. So we were kind of sort of neighbors because Morris Park was just, it was Palm Parkway and then it was Morris Park and I was Palm Parkway. And so, but sometimes when I was in school I was, I would take it to Morris Park just to walk a little bit more and like the nicer weather and stuff like that, I'd get off of my friends. Yeah, no, I know that because as soon as you said hill, I was like, I know that hill. And I know I

Dave: It.

Dave: Oh my God. Oh. But yeah. Um, we've been talking about your book and I know you have a website. I know you have social. I know you're not so proud about your social. It's okay. People can choose if they wanna watch it. It's a work in progress. Uh, we are like, what are your links? Um,

J.F. Monroe: Yep.

Dave: that jazz, all that, that, that fun stuff.

Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: the website is, uh, jf monroe bookshelf.com and TikTok and Instagram is jf dot Monroe. It's pretty simple.

Dave: Pretty easy. And you have a blo, do you have a blog?

J.F. Monroe: I do. Beyond the Veil. It's, I, it's on the, um, the website. So if you go on the website, it has like different tabs and one of them is a

Dave: Damn.

J.F. Monroe: Yes.

Like seriously?

J.F. Monroe: that was actually the easy part. I'm like, oh, no, no, no. That's easy. tell you where to find me. It's when you find me that, that's like the, you know, progress over perfection, right? Like we're, we're all

Dave: Yeah.

J.F. Monroe: be better.

Dave: You've got a pretty like, pretty laid out website. Like this is. It's not hard to navigate. Everything's there. There's a lot of really cool art on here too. So just,

J.F. Monroe: like if you have me like write something I can blow your mind, like I really think I can, I'm gonna go ahead and inflate my ego there. If you have me verbalize things, that's when there's problems. So that's

Dave: the trees,

J.F. Monroe: is like,

Dave: but the trees are fine. I mean, I'm looking at these trees and, and I don't know how they're written, but I will say, these are nice trees.

Dave: Listen, jv, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. I, I, again, like I told you from the beginning, I don't know what's going on with this podcast recently. We are representing New York over here, people so big. Shout out to any of our New York fans. I'm sure there's a few of you. Scream loud, scream proud.

Don't worry. We're gonna get fucked by next year. New mayor. All right, so. I don't know. I I have, I I, it's too late, um, to anybody out there, if you wanna check out more with the podcast, you can find us a lost in the Groove Pod, everywhere and everywhere. Um, of course for jf, I'm gonna leave a bunch of links on Substack and um, you'll also be able to find the video on Rumble.

So with motherfucker is, we will catch you on the next one. Alright, I'm gonna stop talking. Alright. Peace out.