Lyndon Holzheimer, the founder of Secure Shores, joins the podcast to dive into the fascinating world of international living and tax optimization. He’s not just a dad living in the tropical paradise of Vanuatu but a savvy entrepreneur who’s made it his mission to help others navigate the complexities of relocating and managing their finances abroad. Throughout this episode, Lyndon shares his journey from a small town in Australia to building a life in a beautiful island nation, while also addressing the burning question of how to make the most of newfound wealth in crypto and beyond. With a blend of humor and practical advice, he unpacks the ins and outs of living the dream while being smart about taxes and investments. Tune in for a fun and insightful conversation that’s all about living your best life without breaking the bank!

In a delightful conversation with Lyndon Holzheimer, founder of Secure Shores, the podcast takes a relaxed yet insightful look at the intersection of wealth management and international living. Lyndon shares his transformation from a builder in a small Australian town to settling in the stunning islands of Vanuatu, where he now helps others achieve their own dreams of financial freedom while enjoying a vibrant lifestyle. The episode opens with a light-hearted greeting, setting the tone for a chat that feels like a conversation among friends rather than a formal discussion.

With a focus on the crypto boom and the financial strategies that come with newfound wealth, Lyndon dives into the practicalities of living abroad. He shares tips on how to save on taxes and manage investments wisely. The conversation reveals the unique charm of Vanuatu, where the cost of living is significantly lower, allowing families to live comfortably and enjoy the stunning surroundings. Lyndon also highlights the happiness of the local population, who, despite having less in material wealth, are rich in community and hospitality.

As the episode progresses, listeners are treated to Lyndon's expert advice on navigating the complexities of international residency and taxation, making it clear that understanding one's options is crucial for anyone considering a move. He encourages listeners to think about their personal goals and to create a roadmap for their future, whether that involves moving to an island paradise or simply exploring their options in a globalized world. The episode concludes with a sense of optimism and adventure, inviting listeners to consider the potential of living a fulfilling life beyond their current circumstances.

Takeaways:

• Lyndon Holzheimer discusses his journey from a small town in Queensland to living the dream in Vanuatu, emphasizing the importance of following your aspirations.
• In this episode, they explore how living in Vanuatu can be significantly cheaper than in Australia, with living costs potentially being a quarter of what they are back home.
• Lyndon shares insights into the local culture of Vanuatu, highlighting how the community values happiness over material wealth, making it a unique place to live and thrive.
• The conversation touches on the rising global demand for kava, a traditional drink in Vanuatu, which is becoming increasingly popular and profitable, especially in international markets.
• Listeners learn about the ease of starting a business in Vanuatu compared to Western countries, where bureaucratic red tape can often stifle entrepreneurial spirit.
• Lyndon emphasizes the importance of having a strategic plan for international living, ensuring that potential expats understand their options and the local requirements before making the leap.

Links referenced in this episode:

• secureshoregroup.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Secure Shores

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are in the fabulous world.

We're doing a very interesting trillionaire crypto chat today.

Normally we talk to founders of crypto projects and look at their tokens and look at the tokenomics and like a whole bunch of technical things.

But some of you have been listening to the channel for the last 10 years.

You've already made hundreds of millions of dollars and now you're starting to think about how do I best utilize that money?

How do I save on my taxes?

How do I live the dream life that I've always wanted to live?

So for a little bit of an interesting one this morning, morning for me, we're going to chat to Lyndon Holzheimer.

Lyndon is the founder of Secure Shores.

He's also a dad, he's a husband, and he's a lover of the Pacific island paradise of Vanuatu.

Lyndon started off at a small country town in Queensland and he's gone to living on a beautiful tropical island.

He's also built multiple businesses.

He's been a builder of houses as well.

Swapped the Australian outback for the shores of the Pacific paradise and he's now helping other people to do the same thing.

Lyndon, welcome to the show.

Hey, Jeremy, thank you.

Thanks for having me on.

I appreciate it.

So where did you start off?

Where was your little, where was your humble origins?

Yeah, so life for me began in a small country town two, two and a half hours west of Brisbane in the state of Queensland, the Darling Downs region.

So, yeah, town of Pittsworth where I was, where I was born and raised.

Yeah, nice.

Some of, some of us know Pittsburgh, some of driven through on the way to the big smoke like Roma or Thargominda.

So that's it?

Yeah, yeah.

And so what made you dream of tropical paradise, mate?

Yeah, it's a, it's an interesting story.

But it was probably a combination of things that, that led me to, to being here in, in Vanuatu, specifically tropical islands a couple hours off the east coast of Australia.

One of the defining moments is probably after being a builder, having a couple of properties GFC hit.

I sold those properties and was a little disgruntled with the, with the property market, so jumped on Google, was talking to my uncle and he said, what are you going to do?

I said, I think I'll, I don't know, I'll buy an island or something.

So, yes, that's, that's the, the origin of what begins the, the Vanuatu or, or Pacific island story.

Okay, so you didn't go and stay in 15 other islands and you know, off the coast of New Caledonia or Indonesia or anything like that.

You just went straight for Vanuatu?

Yeah, yeah, went straight to Vanuatuatu.

Fell in love with the place back then, bought family back then, or young family I had at the time and sort of stayed on the island for six weeks with some of the locals and really.

Yeah, that really cemented it that this was going to be the place.

I didn't know when, but I knew this was going to be the place at some point that we would call home.

Okay.

So I lived in Bali for a couple of years and I mean, that was fun.

It was also very cost effective.

I found that my expenses over there, including Internet and the guy who cleaned the pool and living close to the beach, my expenses over there were about 25 to 30% of what I was living on in Australia.

So what, what do you find the, the cost effectiveness is like?

Yeah, for us and the way we live, it's, it's a quarter of the cost for a family of, We're a family of six.

Yeah, it's a quarter of the cost living here versus Australia.

Obviously, depending on your lifestyle, Jeremy, like you say, if you're, if you're eating out and you know, depending on your lifestyle, then your expenses are going to, you know, be proportionate to the way you live.

But yeah, generally speaking, it's, it's a much more cost effective way to live than that of Australia and other Western countries at the moment that are really feeling the pinch of inflation or the devaluing of the dollar, depending on which road we go down.

Inflation, devaluation of the dollar, tax issues perhaps, but we'll get into those for some people.

I haven't personally been to Vanuatu, to people who have been to, you know, say Bali or Fiji or some of these sort of touristy islands, Hawaii.

The hospitality, the people, what are they like?

Vanilla is consistently being voted the happiest nation in the world probably the past 10, 12 years, if not number one, number two, but generally number one on the world Happiness Index.

So that tells you most of what you need to know about the people.

They don't, they don't have a lot.

Is a developing nation still here.

So it's, you know, relatively young and new as a country which creates some challenges.

But then that's also the opportunity because there's not so much of the, the programming that some of the, the you know, more developed Western nations have had, you know, much more years of, of programming or bureaucracy or whatever you want to label it.

So yeah, the people, people here are amazing that they have not a lot of, but they're extremely welcoming, extremely happy which is also a good lesson and good to, good to spend time around to remember that you know, maybe all the things aren't so important but your land, you know, there's.

What it is, the sense of community is still somewhat intact here.

Most of the Western countries the community's been pulled apart and it's online interest based community.

Whereas here it's still your land.

The people, what you grow on your land.

So it's.

Yeah, it's nice from that standpoint.

If traditional community is still into, it's still under attack.

Definitely you know, the implantation of Starlink and the other things.

But yeah, it's, it's much more intact from that sense still.

Yeah, I mean that's, that's what I like about some of the third world countries is you see kids who are actually out playing in the fields and you see, you know, grown men sitting on the corner sitting around and chatting to each other rather than being at home and on their devices and things like that.

It's still still that community sort of stuff.

So like the culture, the religion, I'm guessing like Bali is predominantly Hindu in Philippines, is Catholic I believe and Thai is sort of more Buddhist.

So what are these guys like?

What do they believe?

How do they bring that into their daily lives?

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a very Christian nation here that's come off the back of first, second, Second World War.

Basically the Christian missions came out to this, these regions and set up.

So you've got, you know, Catholic, you've got Seventh Day Adventists have a large, you know, a large footprint in this country as well.

So it's somewhat split I would say relatively, relatively evenly.

Half the, half the population go to church on a Saturday, half go to church on a Sunday.

But there's no, yeah, there's no really forcing beliefs on anyone.

Everyone's pretty, pretty happy.

Go lucky when it comes to that.

Nice, nice.

That's one of the things I really love about the Hindus is they don't try and convert anyone.

Just find out who you're looking at and go, okay, yep, that's cool for you.

You don't eat pork and I don't eat beef and everybody's happy.

Yeah, exactly.

How many years have you been there now?

And then, yeah, after, after Covid was the catalyst, the pandemic.

Yeah.

I decided that I would leave Australia and settle over here.

So it'd been a long time coming, but that was sort of the, the size 10 boot to the backside to, to, you know, finalize and finish lots of things we'd started.

So a few test trips and like, for those, I mean, my kids are all grown up, but for those who have.

Have young kids, the, the education system, how does that put them instead for.

If they want to go to university in a Western nation later on?

Yeah, yeah.

There is international schools here.

Majority, I suppose, of those seeking higher education will look on Fiji.

There's decent options out of Fiji and that's relatively close, hour and a bit from here.

Otherwise, for specialist staff, they will look to, you know, Australia or New Zealand or tertiary education.

But as far as, you know, what we would know as primary, high school or grade school school, depending which jurisdiction you're.

You're from.

Yeah, there's, there's French schools here.

There's.

There's international schools and there's, there's local community schools as well.

So the bases are somewhat covered from the, from the education standpoint.

Yeah.

Okay.

So your kids learn French as well as English?

No, they don't at the moment.

We, our approach with our children, we've.

We're not doing any formal schooling currently with.

They've had.

Most of them have had seven years more or the youngest, seven years of traditional schooling.

So we went, hey, let's, let's go.

Let's go.

A period of island schooling where it's about immersing yourself in the culture.

Living here.

You're still doing geometry, sorry, geography, Figuring out where you're going.

You're still doing language because you're learning the local.

Learning the local language.

Bislama.

So there's a.

It's kind of a broadly spoken pidgin English that covers across the country.

So, yeah, that's been our approach for this time period.

We'll see into the, into the new year.

We'll probably formalize things a little more.

But my daughter started a business here helping, helping the expat ladies make sure they're, you know, their eyebrows and, and all Those beauty things are on point.

So that's cool for a, you know, 16 turning 17 year old to have that opportunity.

It probably wouldn't have happened if we were in Australia.

So.

Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, I'm a fan of the school life.

I look at it, don't get me wrong, it's totally a place for education if you're, you know, if you're going that far.

But I guess one of my challenges with traditional education is people you're rewarded on your memory and how good you can recall, which.

Yeah, to me that doesn't, you know, that doesn't equate to how real life works.

You've got to be valuable and solve problems.

Yes, memory can help, but it's not the, it's not the beyond indicator for success.

I don't believe so.

Yeah, we're attempting to give our kids a more rounded view of, hey, you've spent time in this system, we've brought you over here.

All right, here's a look at both.

And they can make an informed decision as they go forward as young adults, which, which they'd like to do.

Yeah, I think some of our highest achievers and billionaires around the world went to university for a very brief period and dropped out school of life.

But I think for your daughter being able to stay, start a business at 16, 17, seeing an opportunity, seeing a problem going, I'm going to solve this.

But without being told that she can't do it, without being buried in red tape and things like that.

That's amazing.

That sounds fantastic.

Yeah, it's like results are your qualifications here.

And I've always talked about that.

You know, I'll take someone that's done what it is I want to do.

I'll take advice from them over someone that's got qualifications, that's never done what I want to do because I'm a fan of your results, you know, that is your calling card.

Which I guess ties into what we're talking about today and why I'm doing what I'm doing now.

Helping other people.

It's.

Yeah, there's plenty of people with help to do the similar thing and the qualifications I have to do that are those successful success stories of what we've done.

That's my claim to fame.

But you've actually done.

Yeah, yeah, basically I, I chose to take, take that.

I swapped building for building houses, for building software.

When I saw the app store launch.

We actually were, you know, we watched on with the, the ico, the.

What was it before that?

I guess initial token ICO now.

Yeah, we watched on, watched on there.

We had a little dabble with a few projects, but then, yeah, ultimately, ultimately, I always looked at myself to problem solver.

That was the lens I looked at building through.

You know, you had to dig the hole before the cement arrived or there was problems.

So then I just took that approach and overlaid it over the technology space in the.

We started in mobile apps.

We're one of the first mobile app development houses in Australia, me and my brother.

And yeah, we grew that relatively successfully rolled into another company and through that process, I guess we just build an interesting network.

So that then when people did see me leave Australia and they're like, wait, what, you're living in Vanuatu but you run a business in the US and you bank in Georgia and what.

How does that work?

So, I mean, that's what lands us on the, on the call here today.

Mutual friend connected us up.

Same conversations I was having with him.

So, yeah, that's.

Maybe I'm jumping ahead there a little, but there's a, there's a little insight as to kind of that transitional story arc from builder to where we're sitting now.

Yeah, I guess I'm just being selfish, mate, and looking at opportunities for myself because some of the people listening to this call will go, yeah, yeah, look, I'm like, Linden, I've already made my billions out of software.

I've made my billions out of cryptocurrency or whatever, and they're ready to just go and sit on an island and sip cocktails out of a coconut and live their life.

But some of us might still need to work.

I don't have my billions yet.

So if I want to come over and start a shop, you know, selling banana smoothies or any sort of business, obviously in Western world, we know you've got to apply for a permit and you've got to study this course and you've got to do this and you've got to pay an inordinate amount of money to the government.

But how easy was it for your daughter or for anybody coming to Vanuatu as a newcomer and going, I'm going to start a business, I want to do something.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, like most developing nations, there's.

Everything's possible here, but it's just a understanding the process, which obviously being around the, the country for a while, that makes that easy.

Most.

There's a form for Most stuff here but you know, there's not the, there's not the five or ten thousand dollar price tag that there would be for the same forms in a western country.

So yeah, there's still, you know, business license, business application, depending on if you're coming here as a resident or, or for starting a business.

You know, different visa requirements.

So yeah, it's just ticking the boxes on those things and, and then getting on with it.

So yeah, relatively, relatively easy but also easy if someone can guide you that's done it before versus you having to bounce around and figure out, you know, where do you go or who do you speak to depending where you are in the country too.

It's 83 different islands, so it's relatively, relatively spread out.

Lots of people think of Vanuatu as sort of one, one country or one place.

But yeah, there's was some contention around three islands but at least 80 islands.

So you've got, you've got to have yourself a little speedboat to get around.

Boat or a jet ski.

Yeah, yeah, Boats.

It's really weird, you know, go back to Australia, not super often but when we do feels very weird getting in a vehicle after driving boats.

But you know, six, seven months.

So yeah, where we are, where we are, we're across a car channel that's probably three kilometers across.

So we're on an island and then across from us is the, the second largest city in the country being Luganville.

So yeah, most travel is done done by boat just.

They call them banana boats.

So just like a, I guess a flat bottom fiberglass or poly boat with an outboard.

Yeah.

Amongst it, yeah.

So when, when you say the biggest city, you mean it's bigger than Pittsworth?

It is, it is, yeah.

Yeah.

The city.

It's hilarious.

Calling the city.

The drawing area is 17, 000 people of, of Luganville on the island of, of Espiritu Santo.

It's very, very, very large island.

Look it up on, on Google if you're, if you're interested in listening.

But yeah, it's very sparsely populated just along the coastline really.

Yeah, I think 6, 6% of that island is of its land mass is under use.

So it's.

Yeah, well, there while it's the second largest city after poor Villa, Port Villa is the capital.

It's still I guess classes of city here, but it's probably a small country town in a number of places.

But you can still get all the things that you want if you need something.

Exactly.

Yep.

Yeah, we disconnected but you know, still close Enough.

The International Airport is 20 minutes from our front door.

Yeah.

So it's, yeah, you're still 20 minutes and two and a half hours and you're back in Australia or a bit longer in New Zealand.

So it's, it's far enough away but still close enough if you, you need those things.

Okay, so for someone again, who hasn't been to Vanuatu, would you suggest I come there as a tourist stay for a month?

Look around.

What's the ideal way to put a toe in the water before just up and moving to another country?

Yeah, it's a good question.

It's probably the thing I get asked most often when I'm having these discussions.

So specifically I'm helping Australian people with their plans and looking at different jurisdictions, banking countries, et cetera.

And, and the approach we take is it doesn't matter what we think, we want to understand the data and what's going on in your world to take more of a data driven approach.

And often it can be quite emotional for people, whether it's, you know, it just being hammered by unrealized capital gains or, you know, new taxes or the like.

So it can be highly emotional.

So our goal is to sort of remove that emotion, remove some of the gray area because this is also maybe by design being set up so that feels like you're doing something illegal if you're dropping your tax residency, even though it's completely within the realms of possibility.

So yeah, our approach is to really spend a month working.

We'd spend a month working with you, Jeremy, to actually understand, Right.

Personally, you as an entity, what are we looking at?

What is your goals as you as an entity?

Because that's separate to then your business interests and assets, then family.

So we look at three things to start, start with your, you as an entity, your business, and then people you love or family.

So what are the considerations across those three silos that would need to be met and then that begins to build a picture of which countries would be possible?

No, I need to be within a day's travel to Australia, or no, I don't need to be.

Well, obviously that opens up lots of different jurisdictions.

So while I live in Vanuatu, Vanuatu is not the only solution that we're talking to people about.

However, it is starting to emerge as that Lots of people use this as, I suppose the plan B or like, okay, if, if I don't really want to leave Australia, but then if I have to, then cool, that seems like a, an interesting option.

I can have permanent residency or citizenship and happy days So I guess the, the traditional path for people come out, you want to spend at least two weeks in any country.

I believe a month is good.

Yep.

But our aim when we work with a potential client, we work with someone like yourself is we'll then set up the list of countries based on what we arrive at from your data and then a list of assumptions.

So then you're going to that country to tick off the assumptions versus just kind of go there and, and have a holiday because otherwise what we've seen happen there is people will go.

And you stand in the resort at Bali or Thailand or wherever it is you go and it's like, oh, this is amazing.

Get the rose colored glasses on.

You're not really realizing what life is like.

So we've, you know, we, we haven't had any false starts with anyone that we work with because we do this planning.

But there's been plenty of people come to us that have tried.

Bali or Dubai is common at the moment where people go, but only lasts three to four months because it's just not, they didn't think about life there as opposed to spending a month there on a, or two weeks there on a, on a trip.

So yeah, our goal is really remove the emotion, get to the data, understand what it is you need, then build a roadmap, build a blueprint so that you can go and check off these assumptions and then yeah, take a bit more of a data driven approach to, to what jurisdiction makes sense.

The same is said then for where should you bank, where should you set up a company trust for, you know, your assets, etc.

So same process depending on it doesn't matter what we're looking at.

In that realm of, let's call it internationalization, we use the same process to arrive at what is best for you.

It doesn't matter what we think.

Okay, okay.

So it's not as you say, the Vanuatu isn't the solution for everybody.

So what's some of the other options that may be on the menu?

Yeah, so if I speak to the personal entity, most people, what we're looking at assisting them do there is to have that clean break from Australia and look to drop their Australian tax residency status.

So they're looking at, right, well, what jurisdiction am I going to belong to as a tax resident?

So that's where we begin with most people.

Common jurisdictions, people are going.

And as far as locating or domiciling, moving their center of life is the terminology we talk about when it's its tax residency status.

Thailand is definitely popular at the moment, people moving to Koh Samui, Bali, Indonesia as a whole is always in there as well.

Cyprus, there's quite a few people going to Cyprus.

Maybe that's off the back of the unemployable guys going there and setting up.

I'm not sure that's probably a contributing factor.

On the other side of the world, Latin America, we've got Paraguay.

Panama are always in the conversation.

Paraguay being territorial tax, residency, that's, that's popular for people not wanting to go as far then.

Yeah.

Vanuatu, as far as tax residency and permanent residency is an option.

So there's some of the, and that's the spread to buy is always in there as well, obviously.

But I would say it's less common with the people I'm dealing with than those other.

Yeah, those other jurisdictions.

Yeah.

From a business standpoint then a lot of Australian people, once they understand the benefits of and, and how you can leverage say US company structures, LLCs, look at the US as a domicile for, for operating a business.

As you said, if they're, they're still needing to run a business, then I guess helping people understand that you maybe don't need to set the business up in the country that you're going to reside in.

In fact we, we sort of want you not to do that.

We would, we would rather you, we would rather you decentralize somewhat.

You know, have your banking in this jurisdiction and just do your banking there.

Have your crypto here and just.

That's all you do with your crypto there.

Have your personal tax residency in this jurisdiction and live.

So yeah, from a business standpoint, the US is popular, the LLCs with pass through taxation.

So if you can.

Going back to personal, if you lend yourself in a very personal tax friendly jurisdiction, then leveraging something like an LLC where you're earning income outside the U.S. obviously if it's inside the U.S. different structure.

But for a lot of people running online businesses or consulting, they see their way clear.

Set up a US llc, leverage pass through taxation because it's, it's, it's outside the US income, pass it through to them in paraguay, say at 0% if I want to, at 0% or you know, low single figures in Thailand, then you've got a quite interesting scenario where it's like, okay, we're keeping 30 something percent more money doing the same amount of work.

That's ultimately the scenario.

That's ultimately the scenario here.

It's like yeah, somewhere between 30 and 40% more money for the same amount of Work depending on the jurisdiction that you choose.

Fascinating, fascinating.

So, I mean, it's, it's obviously a dream to be able to go, look, I'm not going to pay any tax, but then someone else is going to throw their hand up and go, won't somebody please think of the children?

Who's going to pay for the schools?

Who's going to pay for the potholes?

So for the regions and the jurisdictions that you're discussing, obviously Dubai makes a fortune out of oil, so they don't need to have personal income tax on their, on their citizens.

But how do the other countries actually pay for their infrastructure?

Yeah, good question.

So the infrastructure is obviously not, not the standard of what you would see in developed nations like Australia, the US and others that have taxation here in Vanuatu specifically, they rely on import, export, market carver, which we'll probably touch on again because it's super fascinating.

But kava is a, is a massive, growing global market, so there's a lot of revenue generated by the export of and sale of kava.

Coconut products are always there.

But the, I suppose one of the main things assisting funding this country now is the seasonal workers where the citizens in Australia, New Zealand, assisting with fruit picking and industries like that.

So, yeah, they're some of the ways that this country, this country is assisting to fund.

They do rely, you know, lots of the developing nations still rely on some aid from other countries as well.

So, yeah, it's probably a mix of those things, I guess, depending on my personal belief in taxation and I suppose modern monetary theory, depending on whether your listeners have been down that rabbit hole and looked.

I'm not super convinced that our tax dollars in Australia do build the schools and fix the roads.

In fact, there's no visit, you know, we don't really have any visibility, which is why I like coming to a country like this.

Like I put on a football competition here for the independence celebrations on the asylum.

That's my contribution.

I can see the smiling faces.

I can see just the, the pure joy of the local people.

And it's like that, that feels like, you know, a contribution like that makes sense to me as opposed to it just disappearing into sort of the, the unknown.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I, I suppose if the government's in control of printing money.

In most Western nations that have taxation systems, do they really need taxes to build more hospitals or is taxes is the way to control.

They can just print the cash.

Right.

Taxation by inflation.

There you go, perfect system.

I'm loving it.

I mean, when I lived, I lived in Bali Got a lot of friends who lived there.

And, you know, of course I was doing the right thing, your honor, allegedly.

But my friends had lived there for years and they weren't paying taxes to the Indonesian government, but they would employ a driver, they would employ a maid, they would employ a cook, they'd hire someone to drop their kids off at school and to, you know, clean for them, and that's that sort of stuff.

There's a massive contribution to the economy even from, you know, tourists going and buying beers and hiring scooters and things like that.

I think, you know, you're paying your taxes, you're helping keep the economy alive.

Anyway, so you touched on, touched on the carver.

Let's go, let's go back to the kava and have a chat about Vanuatu.

But then also for those who are in, say, the U.K. or the U.S. i want to touch on some of the regions that may be important for them.

So start of us.

And I'm, I'm not drinking kava, but I do have my little mug.

Brilliant.

Excellent, excellent.

I haven't tried kava.

Tell us all about it.

Yeah, so kava is a drink that was developed or its spiritual home or its origination was here in Vanuatu.

So the folk will go, it is a root plant that grows or looks kind of like a tree.

It is then pulled out the ground and harvested for its roots and the stalks, everything above the root is cut off and put back in the ground and starts to grow again.

So it's this self sewing, self perpetuating thing.

So the traditional method for carver is they will chop it up finely with a knife and then grind it with a stone and, and then strain it through a coconut husk.

And it's extremely, extremely concentrated, if you can imagine that method.

You're invited to the chief's nakamal to have kava as part of, you know, welcome you to the island or something like that.

But as time has gone on, customers kind of extended into every afternoon and it's basically taking place of, you know, maybe an afternoon wine or a beer.

In, in Western cultures, the, the local people will go and have a shell of Carvas served in a, in a coconut shell usually.

So, yeah, all natural products.

So, yeah, mixed with water, strain through water, the, the roots that are chopped up, the, it extracts the, the carbo lactones, which is, which is what is in a kava.

So, and it's depending on the strain of, of kava can have slightly different effects.

Some will give you great mental clarity, others will just make you, you know, calm down basically.

But yeah, different to, different to alcohol.

You're not having the hangover effects though still like anything used in moderation is great if you're going to use it excessively.

It can still have issues with you know, liver etc if you're going to go crazy.

No different to alcohol of course.

So kava, yeah it's developed then over the years into you know, it's, it's just part of, part of life in the Pacific island.

It's part of life here in Vanuatu, in Fiji, Simla, all of the, all of the Melanesian countries.

So then what that's done is there's been a couple of companies that have seen opportunity to go well hey, we should, we should export this and what if we could powder it and turn into a product that obviously is very difficult to export root anything from any country because the biosecurity challenges.

Yeah, so yeah, there's a couple companies that have solved that and you can buy in actually in Australia in Woolworths and Coles like the, the major chain supermarkets you can actually buy Instacarti.

So it's actually made its way mainstream.

There's a couple of Carver bars opened in New York.

So it's also hit that end of the market where it's like yeah, let's go almost like, it's almost like a car or a lounge experience, you know, cigars and Carver.

I see that as being a really interesting growth market with being able to have the same effect, the relax after the hard days work but then not have the, the massive headache the next day to, to get out of bed and get going.

So yeah, what, so what's happened over the years here is most Carver is just growing in villages.

There is some, there is some substantial Carver farms.

A lot was then growing and it's a three to four year growth cycle from when you put it in the ground to when it's harvestable.

No one could foresee the, the growth curve from, from 20 sort of 20 onwards to now where we are, where there's 100 tons just going to Port Villa each each week which is, which is crazy town of 50,000 people.

Yeah, yeah.

It's so in talking to the.

The gentlemen that do a lot of the export, I was asking them, because the price has then started to, you know, to.

To react to the supply demand issue.

And the price of raw carver is now a thousand bartu a kilo, which is $12, probably 50, $10 U.S. say a kilo.

You can grow 6,000 plants to a hectare, and I'll average, you know, 10 to 12 kilos.

So all of a sudden it becomes a.

It becomes a relatively profitable crop per hectare compared to what else you can grow in a country like this.

I was speaking with the guys exporting, and I was asking, so what, what will happen over the next decade?

I said, look, price has to increase, because I'll tell you why.

If we could fulfill the entire demand we have for export, we would take every bit of kava that exists in the country right now.

So it doesn't matter the next two growing cycles, you know, the next eight years.

Yeah, there's still going to be appreciation price.

Yeah, it makes for an interesting market model.

And we've started some cover growing operations here and sort of opened it up to others that, A, interested, B, fascinated, but don't really want to have to become a farmer to tag along and see what happens.

So, yeah, I look at kava.

Kava, for me, is in the same category as gold and silver, precious metals, as far as a store of wealth.

And I'll tell you why, in this country, it is a currency.

Jeremy, I could buy you a new Land Cruiser with COVID roots.

You could buy cattle, you can buy.

It's a currency.

See.

So in the event of.

Just like, I know a lot of listeners right now are sitting on their crypto as a hedge against the deflationary effect of dollars.

I view things like Carbar through that same lens of going, well, okay, if there is a global currency meltdown in a place like this, it doesn't matter.

It's actual.

It's.

It's.

It's as good as legal tender in, in this country.

So there's that.

Yeah, there's that standpoint.

And then obviously the, the land that we're growing it on so that it's.

It's backed by.

It's also backed by the real estate.

But you're not relying on the traditional effect of real estate of, I'm trying to make 2, 3x.

We just got a business model running over top of the land, but the.

The business is underwritten by the land value.

So, yeah, it's quite an interesting, Quite an Interesting project we've got going on there.

Okay.

For people who have been investing in real estate and earning 4% rent or maybe 8 or 10% growth depending on which country in the world that you're investing into and similar returns for stocks, maybe better returns for crypto, what sort of returns are we looking at for someone who's investing into Carver?

Yeah, so for say 100,000 Australians.

So 70, 65,000 US dollars is what we're looking at as a minimum for 10 people to jump in with us here to have little fun.

The returns look like the first, the growing period.

There is no returns but year three and a half, year four onwards at the first harvest, we're then just doing a profit share of 40% of the profits with the investor group.

So we're only, we're only bringing on a, you know, 700,000, US$600,000.

It's relatively small operation but the returns look like over a 10 year horizon as we're looking at this through 10 years, which is two full growing cycles.

Yeah, you're going to make, depending, depending on what the price does.

But we're, you know, worst case scenario, the price remains the same.

You're going to make somewhere between 18 and 20% a month aggregate over that 10 year period.

18, 20.

A month.

Sorry, a year.

A year.

What?

That's not.

I wish it was a month.

I wish it was a month.

Yeah, my apologies.

So, yeah, annually, yeah, over that time period.

So yeah, 180 to 200 plus percent over that 10 year period is what you're looking at.

But the returns don't begin until year four at first harvest.

Yeah, so it's more like venture capital.

You know, you're not, you're not sort of investing into a stock or a crypto that you can sell next Tuesday.

You're investing into a company that you're selling in five years time.

Yeah, yeah, basically.

Basically, yeah.

Okay, 20% per year.

So you're doubling, you're doubling your money down when the first harvest comes in.

Nice.

Exactly.

So yeah.

Next question.

For those who aren't the Aussies and who aren't living in Vanuatu, you'll take money from anyone, you're not racist, you'll take money from uk, us, wherever.

We're like Switzerland, Jeremy.

We're friends with everyone but we'll take anyone's money.

And so if I was coming from one of these countries, say like I might have been a US person who's been taxed and may be unhappy with the tax, maybe unhappy with the politics Might have tried living in Dubai for a few months and then realized, I'm in the middle of the desert.

It's kind of like Las Vegas.

It's a very pretty desert, but it's still a desert and it plays havoc with my skin.

So for people coming from these other remote regions who maybe don't, don't share, you know, kinship with Pittsworth, us, uk, Europe, what sort of solutions are you providing for these guys as far as where to live and their tax rates?

Yeah, U.S. i'll speak to you specifically.

U.S. is a tricky one.

As you probably know, their tax sticks with you wherever you go unless you essentially give up your US passport and denounce your citizenship.

So US Is a tricky one.

I was speaking with someone the other day that they're going to sell Property, a US partner.

It's like I've been in the US for 20 years, but still as a US citizen.

The government was wanting to put their hand out for it.

So the US Is, is somewhat tricky.

Some people, I wouldn't say a lot, maybe a small percentage are giving up their U.S. citizenship because that is one of the parts out to then be free of that.

But yeah, for the, for the US Options are limited unless you, unless you're prepared to denounce your citizenship by way of breaking free of the taxation system.

So then it just becomes about what structures and what can you put in place to minimize, you know, playing in that sandbox that you're given to play in as a US tax resident for other countries, depending on their taxation systems.

Obviously the first thing we're still looking at for those people is how do you create that clean break as a tax resident, US aside?

Because it's basically impossible.

But yeah, what are the requirements and can you meet those?

Because it's not just good enough to leave.

That's.

That's probably one of the big misnomers, Jeremy, where it's like, no, but I'm spending six months a year outside the country.

And the tax residency says if I'm not in the country for more than 183 days, I'm not a tax resident.

It's like that's part of it.

But that's not the whole equation.

Right.

A lot of countries have that bright line 183 day test, but it's usually as a side to testing other things like where are you, where's your business, where's your assets, where's your family, you know, where are you spending time?

So, yeah, the approach, regardless of the jurisdiction, those that you mentioned before is still the same in establishing, hey, before you even think about moving, you know, let's put that aside.

Let's actually look at what's the sum outcome, you know, is are you going to be better off by moving, breaking in, taxation, residency status or not?

Or are you better off staying, putting better structures in place and visiting other countries?

So yeah, that, that's, that's the equation.

I suppose that's the whole blueprint process of what we do is to help people understand that so they don't have the false start of leaving.

Or, or yeah, and it's common for Australian people in, in Indonesia that, you know, they leave everything the same and spend six months a year out of Australia and think they're not a tax resident.

But it doesn't, doesn't work like that.

So if you've still got three investment properties in your home country and you live outside of the country for nine months, then you're still probably going to pay tax, right?

Yeah, yeah, depending.

I mean each case is taken on its own merits, of course, but yeah, there's three things I'll look at.

Where do you reside is the first thing.

Meaning where are you spending time, where's your business, where are your assets?

Those things, if you can prove that that's not in the country, then they'll go, well, where is your permanent home?

Is your permanent home still in Australia even though you're spending nine months out?

Okay, well, yes, that's still.

So, so majority countries have that similar structured process where it's like when you say.

Sorry, when you say permanent home, you mean a house that you own or just.

How do you define a permanent home?

Like that's where my children live or.

That'S where my parents live or yeah, domicile.

Domicile by law, like where you're, where you're born?

Unless it's domicile by choice somewhere else.

Right, so I'm living outside of the country for nine months and I assume I don't have any assets in my home country.

Yep.

So yeah.

So if you're living outside, if that's your only permanent address, if you don't have a permanent, a permanent domicile in Australia, then yes, the argument would be that you're not a tax resident because you're, you've been out the country for longer, you don't have any assets there to tie you to Australia.

So there'd be a strong, strong argument for you to be a non tax resident for sure.

Okay, so just, just for those of us who, you know, didn't grow up as Pittsworth builders and not accountants.

The citizenship versus residency, I mean obviously US is problematic.

And I've got friends who live in Australia, as you say, haven't been in the US for 20 years.

But if they sell their own home in Australia, they still got to pay tax to the US government, not to the Australian government.

The Australian government won't make you pay tax on your own house.

But the US is kind of problematic for that.

So how do we differentiate between residency and citizenship?

And for those who can live in another country and legally not pay the taxes of their home country versus some, I imagine giving up your passport is a big thing for some people.

So yeah, how do we make that sort of a bit easier for them?

Yeah, so that's probably the, the biggest thing people have confused or conflated or whichever verb you want to describe.

But there's just a lack of clarity around your tax residency versus citizenship.

So citizenship, to make it clear is who you belong to, you know, where you were born.

Basically your tax residency then is who can tax your income.

So that's the, that's the delineation we look at there.

So for you, you can remain an Australian citizen but legally become a non tax resident.

That's what been talking about.

And the key to do that is proving your center of where your center of life and business is so you can live overseas, run your business globally and stay compliant.

A lot of people don't realize they think they have to give up living as straight.

I think that that means they're not going to be able to re enter or having a, you know, a citizenship.

Still.

That's not the case.

That is the case.

Like I've said in the U.S. but yeah, speaking specifically from an Australian standpoint, it's not the case.

So yeah, citizenship, who you belong to, tax residency, who can tax the money you're making.

That's the, that's the delineation we look at those two things through.

So while connected somewhat, they're not the, you know, they're not the same thing.

Okay, so again the US is an issue, but if I'm someone from Australia, uk, Europe, some other place that's not America, can I hang on to my existing passport and come and live in one of these areas and pay local tax rather than home tax?

Yeah, absolutely, yes, depending.

The caveat to that is depending on the jurisdiction that you're going to go to and the requirements of their citizenship program.

Common in this area that we're in of internationalization is your citizenship by Investment.

So Caribbean, some kits, Nevis, those places.

Invest in some real estate or make a donation and we'll, we'll make you a citizen.

That's fine.

Most of those jurisdictions will allow you to have multiple citizenships.

There's an interesting example.

Recently, Solomon Islands started a citizenship by investment program.

They're here in Pacific.

Yeah.

But I don't know whether who advised them or how that worked.

But their requirement was for you to forfeit your other citizenship to be part of that.

So this is what you've got to be careful when you're looking at these programs.

Yeah, yeah.

That majority, I would say, as a rule of thumb.

Yeah, you don't have to give up.

You don't have to give up your British passport, your Australian passport to have another citizenship, to have another passport, unless it's a requirement of that jurisdiction that you're going to.

So this is where it comes down to carefully picking which jurisdiction you might want to belong to and looking at those factors and not being too emotional about it.

Otherwise that can happen where it's like you pay the money not to realize that, oh, well, if I do that, then I'm actually going to have to give up my Australian passport, which is not the goal.

I guess the goal or the overarching thing we're looking for here, Jeremy, is to have multiple options.

So people ask me around, should I closed bank account, should I?

I'm like, well, it's in this day and age, if you've got it, you might as well hold on to it.

Obviously, if you're leaving Australia, you may want to be using Australian bank accounts all the time.

However, what you've got to go through to open an account versus keep one, it's, it's, you know, it's much more straightforward.

So same with the passport, same with driver's licenses, residencies.

It's about having multiple options in different places, multiple bases.

Multiple places is what we talk about as opposed to just one, you know, jurisdiction.

Because we see that too often as well, where people will say, uplift from Australia, banking companies, everything, investments, crypto, head over to Dubai and, and downlift there.

It's like, hang on a minute, guys, that now you just completely beholden to one jurisdiction again, which, that defeats the purpose of what we're trying to look at here.

We're trying to create some decentralization amongst these things so that they're not all reliant on each other, that you can bank somewhere personally.

And that works wherever you go around the world as opposed to being dictated to you know, if you're banking in the country that you live, for example.

So yeah, that's also another, another thing that we, we see a little bit.

And I suppose that comes down to if you speak to someone from Dubai about moving to Dubai, what are they going to sell you?

They're going to sell you that.

Yeah, that's the, that's the place.

And bring everything.

No different Indonesia.

No different to wherever you go, which.

That's where our approach is.

Is not so loved by some of those companies and jurisdictions because we're not.

Yeah, I, I don't so much care about where you end up.

And I'm not pushing a predetermined solution on you.

We want to get to the bottom of what is optimal for your specific situation.

Okay.

So again, we're not, we're not pushing Carver, we're not pushing Vanuatu.

What like you've mentioned Caribbean, you've mentioned St. Kitts, you've mentioned Paraguay.

What were the other ones?

Panama, Paraguay.

Cyprus is another country mentioned.

Montenegro actually, as well.

Thailand, depending on.

Yeah, depending.

I'm sorry, I'll let you finish your question there.

Around those, those jurisdictions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Depending on.

Depending on people's goals obviously, as to whether it's a residency or citizenship, maybe.

Another important point to note that sometimes is overlooked is if you, if you want a permanent residency from the get go, there's very few jurisdictions that will offer permanent residency up front now without having to, you know, satisfy criteria.

Spending time in country or, you know, Indonesia, for example.

You, when you were in Indonesia, you on the Keters.

Keters visa or you're just doing recurring.

Yeah, yeah.

Every, every six months I would have to leave for a couple of hours.

I'd fly into Singapore, have a coffee and then fly back and I was good for another six months.

Yeah, the, the visa run.

So yeah, that's a, that, that's something that sometimes is overlooked when people are looking at internationalizing and structures is okay if I really want that backup residency or, or if I'm going somewhere.

What, what do you value?

Do you value that it is permanent?

And it's permanent from the start, so then it's done.

Or knowing that, well, okay, I.

Jurisdiction.

But it is 12 months at a time for three years and then I can look to, you know, permanent residency after that and then maybe citizenship after that.

So yeah, that's something that is a, A bit misunderstood.

And then B, people sometimes overlook.

It's like, hey, you don't have the ability to permanently reside there.

You know, our program could Change and then all of a sudden that 12 month renewal that you've been doing, enabling you to live there and, and you're structured to work, could be taken away because that stuff does happen in this space all, all the time.

So yeah, that's something I would just say if anyone is considering, you know, other residencies.

Yeah, get permanent residency if you can because then that's a, a one and done as opposed to, you know, having, having, you know, in country requirements or, or multiple, multiple entries over a time period before you could then move to a permanent type arrangement.

Okay.

Okay.

It sounds like you've done a lot of homework.

I mean, I feel like we're just sort of touching on the surface of the stuff that you actually know and I could easily talk to you for another, at least another hour.

But for someone who's kind of just thinking about it, just sort of kicking the tires, what's the first step?

They have a consultation with you?

Do they sort of travel around to a few different places and decide whether they like Vanuatu, whether they, than they like sent kits or somewhere else?

What's, what's the first steps for them?

Yeah, good, good question.

It differs for everyone but there's some commonalities that we've discovered over doing this for some time.

So what, what works well for people is to not try and make the decisions whether they're leaving or where they're going up front, but more just to create a plan and a roadmap.

So our approach to that if you work with us, is we spend a week looking at, discovering and looking at all the different options, understanding where you're exposed and understanding your objectives.

Then that enables us to start to think about a strategy design for you, which jurisdictions, which structures, what's the right international structures that are available to you.

Then we would look to more an implementation roadmap.

So give you the timelines, give you, here's exactly what you need to do.

You can go off and execute it on your own or you can come back and you know, we're there as a, you know, execution, support or future probably I would say 80% of the people we work with just, they don't have the time, they have the money, they just want someone that's done this stuff before, just do it for us.

So 80% of our business is that where it's like hey, yup, set up the company, set up the banking, set the stuff up for us and, and thanks for coming type thing.

So yeah, that's our approach.

If, if people are, if people are Considering this stuff, I would encourage you.

Yeah.

A, understand what your options are.

B, then have a roadmap of what's possible when you know the timelines, you know the investments, and then you can make it an informed decision then around.

Yeah.

When you should take action on these things.

I suppose what.

In closing on that, though, what I've also seen is, and maybe just looking back over the.

Over Covid and other things that have happened, like the people that left it until something happen to set this stuff up weren't in the most optimal positions when those things happen, the people in the networks that had been proactive and had plans and options in play life went on.

So, yeah, I think if history repeats itself, there's a, there's a lesson to be learned there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, they say the next, the next pandemic might be a few years away.

It doesn't know whether it's five years or 20 years.

But obviously once, once your country closes the borders, the only people allowed to leave are the ones with a, with a different passport or the ones who perhaps own property or have residency in, in other countries.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Again, really, really love chatting with you.

I'm thinking like everybody should have a consultation with you, find out where they want to be, what they want to be doing.

You know, again, there's, there's so much into play and that's why you can't give a diagnosis and say 90% of people should live in Paraguay because it depends on their goals, depends on their kids.

But it sounds like, you know, when I fly to China or Vietnam, I don't speak the language.

I don't know where's the best temples or where's the best restaurants.

So I want to find a guide who does speak the language, who's lived there for a long time.

And it sounds like you know about all of these, all of these different regions.

So for people who are even just a little bit curious of how to get their backup plan, how to minimize their taxes or maybe how to have a really great holiday and have a look at a few, a few different things.

How do people best get in touch with you?

Yeah, just the website is probably the best, best port of call.

I'll give you links if anyone reaches out to you.

Happy obviously for you to pass on personal details as well, Jeremy, but just SecureShoreGroup.com you'll find your way to book some time to chat with me there.

But like I said, Jeremy, I'll give you a link.

So if anyone did reach out, then, yeah, I'm more than happy for you to put on put on personal details of mine to people in your network.

So secure sure S h o r.

E secureshore group.com yeah yeah for those.

Who are listening on Spotify we'll spell that out for you secure sure S h O R E secure sure group where you can be sure that you'll be sorted out Lyndon will look after you.

Go global without the guesswork is is the other thing we talk about.

You got some great little sound bites mate this is going to be great for the great for the reels and I know you you did have some pictures and things to show us but we're we're just about out of time so another time.

Yeah yeah we'll cut we'll come back another time but thank you so much.

LYNDON HOLZHEIMER from secureshore group.com your passport to international living and lowered taxation and generally just having a really good time with your money and your family.

Appreciate your.

Appreciate your time Appreciate you having me on Jeremy.

Thanks a lot.

Thanks le Cheers.