Shownotes
Well, no cake, or ice cream, or fireworks, but we are taking a moment to thank you for listening to Common Sense Ohio.
We are thrilled to celebrate the 1-year anniversary of our podcast, Common Sense Ohio! It has been an incredible journey of learning and growth, and we want to express our gratitude to all of our loyal listeners for their support throughout the year.
We look forward to many more engaging discussions and sharing valuable insights with you in the future!
A Big Thanks to our sponsor, Harper Plus Accounting. They provide more than just basic transactions, offering expert business consultation as well. They go beyond the basics, providing comprehensive advice on saving, planning, and optimizing taxes. Harper CPA Plus
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Transcripts
Here we go. It is that time again. So I know you guys have been on the edge of your seats all week long waiting for this next weekly dose of Common Sense, and we're a better place to get your dose of Common Sense in Common Sense Ohio. And you can check us out at commonsense ohio show.com if you wanna Check out the past episodes. You know, I was talking to the ex checker Jay Simon who did a nice interview with us, on, on some, I'm trying to draw a total blank on the geology and some of the water spills.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm. The train wreck
Steve Palmer [:happened earlier
Brett Johnson [:this year.
Steve Palmer [: ut the show must go on. It is: Steve Palmer [:92923, Common since Ohio Show .com, brought to you, by the way, by Harper Plus Accounting. Had lunch or, forgive me, breakfast with Glenn Harper, proprietor, owner, partner, accountant,
Brett Johnson [:friend Entrepreneur, entrepreneur, podcaster.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I had breakfast with him yesterday. I was discussing some, you know, we're friends, obviously, so we were catching up on some friendship issues, but also on, on on planning tax planning. So those of you who bumped your personal returns until October, that's around the corner, me included. But, you know, what's great about it is I was able to talk to him about the Q4, what is gonna happen in the Q4 with my business, what I need to do to make sure I don't take a huge surprise. And even if I did have a huge surprise, it wouldn't be a huge, huge surprise because we had the same meeting in the Q3, in the same meeting, in the Q2, in the same meeting in the Q1. You get the note you get the, the idea here is that I am ready for whatever comes my way. My business goes, in you know? Brett, you've got a business like mine probably where, you know, it fluctuates a little bit.
Steve Palmer [:Anybody who runs a small business struggles with this.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I was thinking about that too that I'm working with Glenn with my business, and it it It definitely definitely takes a different take when you start looking at it per quarter than it is per year.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Brett Johnson [:Yep. And and and it feels freeing. It just does because it you could plan better.
Steve Palmer [:It it's, in in I'm I'm down to the month actually on a lot of stuff. Once we tie up our books for the month, we'll we'll look at it and see what do we need to do next month. But you're right. It is freeing. And I think, you know, anxiety is always tied to the unknown. Mhmm. And when you don't know what's gonna happen in December and your accountant calls you up and says, yeah. I'll do your tax return.
Steve Palmer [:You just need, you know, some absorbent amount of money that you don't have. Well, what do you do then? But if that conversation happens in March and then again in June and then again in October, and then again in December, you you know, whatever you have to do, you you've planned for it. You've planned for it.
Brett Johnson [:So It's always frustrating when we would you never know what's gonna happen at the beginning of the year. You're gonna get a big return, or you're gonna owe a lot of money. Call. Frustrating to us. Yep. And and but you can solve that problem by
Steve Palmer [:Harper Plus
Brett Johnson [:accounting, man. Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:And it's it's it is Like you said, it it is very, very freeing. It creates some financial peace. Now I'm sounding like, Dave Ramsey, but it creates It creates financial peace because you know what's gonna happen. You can plan for what's gonna happen. And that's really all smart financing is is just using your head a little bit in planning for the future a little bit, and it doesn't You don't have to ruin your life, but, look, I'm in the speaking of Ramsey, I'm in the process of paying off some debt, and, I'm able to do that and keep up on my taxes and keep up on my business because I've got good partners around me. So that's enough of a of a, a plug, and it's it's it's not even a plug. It's just the truth. So, that's Harper Plus Accounting.
Steve Palmer [:You can check them out at harperplusaccounting.com, probably. Anyway, Glenn Harper. So, you know, we've been Norm's not here today, guys, and, I've got a busy court schedule. Brett and I are holding down the show, and we're gonna give you some of the show. But I think, I'm gonna I'm gonna hit the World War 2 this day in history, and then I think we're gonna spend a little time talking about where we've been. We're about a year in right now,
Brett Johnson [:Brett. Yes. So we are. With the conversion of Common Sense Ohio, we kind of well, I'll I'll let you get into World War 2. We could talk about a little bit about, you know, where we came from.
Steve Palmer [:Where we came from Yeah. And what is gonna and why we do we do what we do. And this this is sort of like this is like one of those shows. Like, you see these big shows, and this is, like, the one where they sorta take a step back, let you see, like, the 3rd eye or whatever it would be. So Yeah. Like, remember, and this will be interesting too because remember the show moonlighting? Yeah. They sort of broke that barrier where they would they would show you at times the production. People would turn and look at the camera and talk during the production.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Really made it, that was sort of groundbreaking at the time. Yeah. And, we're gonna do some of that here. Anyway, so It is 9/29/23 in this day in World War two history. And why World War two? Well, because we like it. Right? And and not only do we like it. I think it's a very telling time.
Steve Palmer [:It's a very parallel time to what we're facing right now. There was a there was a push towards, collectivism. There was a push towards, well, socialism, communism, fascism, all these are leftist, notions, right, where the government's gonna take over the scenes in control production and fascism and communism. We're really just kissing sisters, although people think that they're they're not. And, You know, the history of World War 2 is fascinating. We're gonna talk more nuts and bolts history. But if you really wanna get into it, you know, dive into the history of Marxism and how it started and how it resulted and and how it ended up, like, 300,000,000 people dead. And I think it's worthy of not forgetting that history.
Steve Palmer [: So, with that, in: Steve Palmer [:Yes. Correct. Raving or, you know, rantings of a lunatic.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [: s. I'm reading it as I go. In: Steve Palmer [:And then this is probably relevant to, if you watched what happened up in Canada, they basically stood up and applauded and gave a standing ovation to a Nazi Yeah. Like an SS, Waffen SS Nazi, like like, the believing the believer Nazi, the ideological believer in in, in mind conf. Got a standing ovation in the Canadian legislature. Awesome.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Good job. You know? And I can understand why you bringing it to the table, but talking about World War 2, and I I liken it to when's the last time we've had a world event that has affected everyone on this planet at the same time.
Steve Palmer [:Not COVID, maybe, I guess.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. That's where mine went mine went Yeah. My mind went.
Steve Palmer [:That was
Brett Johnson [:Not not as disastrous, of course. Of course, it it it's not in relation, but how many things in our in our lifetime affect the whole world at the same time? World War 2 did that.
Steve Palmer [:World War 2 did that. World War 1 did that. World War 1 World War 2 is really an extension of World War Right. One. No. You're you're absolutely right. And and you were we were talking amazing. A little bit at the break or before we started here that, you you know, when this at the start of World War 2, we had nothing.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, we we were like you said, we're training with broomsticks and and axe handles. We didn't even have a standing military. We had nothing. We had we had sort of entered into this notion of American isolationism Yeah. Because
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And I guess I didn't realize that they started the age range for, you know, bringing the guys in. At first, it was 18 to 35, and then they extend extended it to 16 to 50.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Yep. Wow. Well, it just shows you the the snowflakes out out there now. It's like, can you imagine you're 16 year old? It was a different word. It was a different time, man. Yeah. People people, This is an interesting psychological discussion, not that I'm any expert in this, but, you know, I always sort of believe that I I look back on the kids that I went to high with someone to college, some didn't.
Steve Palmer [:I went off to college. I did not mature nearly as quickly as those who did not. You know? So I have a very close friend. We hunt together. We hang out together. And, you know, he he had his crap together because he went to work, and he's very successful at what he's done. Very successful now lectures across the country on safety for, elect electrical linemen and, is is a very sought after, commodity for, like, a better way to put it in that arena. But he immediately had to mature.
Steve Palmer [:You know? He had to figure out car payments. He had to figure out getting housing. He got married. He had a child. He, you know, you sort of crossed all those bridges and responded in kind to the task at hand. Mhmm. So he immediately, matured because he had to. So I think by delaying by saying that our kids aren't mature enough to go handle the adversity is really, I think, backwards.
Steve Palmer [:They are certainly mature enough to handle the adversity. They just don't have any adversity to handle.
Brett Johnson [:We have to trust that we did our job for 16 to 18 years. Yes. Yes. They'll do it. All of us that go through that kid transition. I mean, Angie and I are now quasi empty nesters. Yep. You're getting close to that.
Steve Palmer [:Very close.
Brett Johnson [:And the day they walk out the door, you start to think, did we do enough? Oh my god. We didn't do this. We didn't do this. But we had to look at each other going, we did fine. You did fine. Right? Fine. We're they're gonna be okay.
Steve Palmer [:The first time, my 16 year old, my oldest, who is 16, and now my youngest, who is 16, left on their own and said, I'll be back. You know? They and they came back. You know? And and you you have to the hardest thing you can do as a parent is let your kids be exposed to risk. Yeah. You know? That that's sort of the hardest thing that we have to do. And we if you don't do it, though, you're not doing your kids any service whatsoever.
Brett Johnson [: now, started in the late late: Brett Johnson [:Yep. Two fights broke out. 1 fight was because somebody cut the line, And somebody some guy wanted to recruit before another guy, and they got into a fight. Incredible. Another one got juiced up to to to, you know, get his get his his bravery up, and he just was drunk.
Steve Palmer [:He was yeah. So That was it. And, you know,
Brett Johnson [:imagine We we we are not buying into this war yet.
Steve Palmer [:No. But, you know We're not in it. On the heels of the depression, and you can you know, people will say that FDR fixer solve the depression with his new deal and all that, but it was really a bunch of nonsense. I mean, I mean, things were not good, and I think it gave us an identity. It gave us a a an American identity again and a cause to come together and bond and and do things. And, You know, I think at at at that level, like, the grassroots level, kids standing in line to go fight. And who knows if they even Totally appreciate what they were getting into. Like, you go read the stories of some of these battles, and, you know, it was it was brutal.
Steve Palmer [:It was a slaughterhouse Yeah. At times. And, you know, really, really rough. But, we did it. We persevered, and the greatest generation resulted, and and not that they weren't without the problems.
Brett Johnson [:So for
Steve Palmer [:sure. Certainly, they were.
Brett Johnson [:Well, we certainly are gonna romantic time. We always do. I mean and they romanticize.
Steve Palmer [:That's what history
Brett Johnson [:does. That's what exactly. Exactly. We can we kind of like, okay. Yeah. We went through the bad stuff, but here's the good stuff because He got something out of it, and this is why we romanticize it because it we did survive it.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look, and the other side of adversity is where you grow. You know? And so it's like any so when you're depriving your kids of this adversity, when you're depriving your kids of any opportunity to fail, when you're depriving your kids of of of these sort of life lessons, then they don't learn the bigger life lessons incrementally. They they get thrown into this mess, and they become these snowflakes that everybody complains about. Not not that they're all snowflakes. I mean, I I think that's a gross generalization, but, it does exist. The phenomenon exists. You know, people are offended by what other people say. People and this is back to maybe a good transition in what we're doing here.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm. So I I I like to think, you You know, when we all sat down and created this studio, Brett, we you, Jared, and I, sat around the round table and sort of started talking, and a light bulb came on for me. It's like, holy crap. Nobody does this anymore. Nobody actually sits around and talk to the table, and we didn't have the mics on. Or sometimes we would just turn the mics on and not record because it sounded cool to have the headphones in your in your and and maybe there's a good time. By the way, go check out channel 5 one one .com. If you want your own podcast, we you know, we now got hourly services where you can come in, record your own podcast, ticket and run.
Steve Palmer [:So, you'll have a professional recording. What what's what's the right word? A
Brett Johnson [:Dan. Yeah. You got Dan.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You have a you have a a somebody, a professional studio guy sitting here, doing your recording, taking all the hard stuff out of it for you. So and it'll sound as good as it as as you think. You know? Yeah. But you too can put the headphones on. But Back to it. You know, we put those headphones on, just started talking, and something magical happened. We could we could debate.
Steve Palmer [:We could, discuss. We could disagree. We could agree. And something about having the headphones on and sitting around people, it made it it it it made it, I guess, harder to be mean to people.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Because you took away the screen. You took away that you were in front of somebody. Yeah. Doesn't then you have to okay. If you say something, you need to
Steve Palmer [:back it up. And it's being recorded.
Brett Johnson [:And it's being recorded.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And you don't have the safety of, I'm just gonna post it, and I'm gonna leave. Right.
Steve Palmer [:So and you're gonna post it and leave under some handle or Yep. Fake name and then let them respond. And then you're sitting in your couch later, 4 hours later at night or in the dark in your bed looking at your phone all pissed off, and you get that little pain in your gut that that, you know, the that SOB said this back, and now you feel stupid for what you said, blah blah blah. But the the the the tonic for that is discussion, open discussion, common sense discussion. I don't think either of us knew at that time No. We were really sowing the seeds for Common Sense Ohio. Right.
Brett Johnson [:We were. Yeah. Exactly. Because I and I mentioned this to you guys off mic, But I've I've learned a lot about myself do doing these
Steve Palmer [:shows.
Brett Johnson [:Yes. I just have. It it's that it it how to present myself, Listening to other ideas and kinda going, yeah. Wow. That's interesting. That makes sense. And it gets me digging into, okay, Norm brings something up or Steve brings something up. I gotta do a little bit more digging into stat.
Brett Johnson [:Is that where are they getting the facts for that? Yeah. Because I wanna understand where they're coming from for that. It's like, oh, there it is, or that's a little bit off. They're saying this and they're saying this. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. That's where Norm got or you got your information. That's where you got it.
Brett Johnson [:That's where I get mine, but there are other points of view. Yep, and bringing it all together and kind of looking at the whole
Steve Palmer [:picture. And, you know, as we as we progress, we created your like, in your business, sort of, flourish down
Brett Johnson [:here Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:With podcasters coming in feeling the same phenomena here at at the studio in channel 511. And, you know, even watching and helping record some of those really inspired me to do more and more and more and more of it. And then
Brett Johnson [:What's fun is bringing new clients in, And Glenn Harper is a great example. Give another plug for him for his Empowering Entrepreneurs podcast is to see he and his cohost, Julie, grow. Yep. How their 1st couple of episodes Julie didn't even wanna be on that podcast initially. And now I don't think either one of them can't wait to get down here
Steve Palmer [:It's so much fun.
Brett Johnson [:To record. It's it it it's just So much fun to watch my clients grow like that.
Steve Palmer [:And and, really, it forces an intellectual that's not the right word. It forces you know what it is? My dad used to always say this. The brain is a muscle. You have to flex it and use it and work it out just like any other muscle in your body. And the podcasting, meaningful podcasting. Right. It does just that. It forces you to think.
Steve Palmer [:It forces you to respond. It forces you to feel things, process that, and then respond to it. So, you know, you can't just get triggered and storm out, although that's happened here, me included.
Brett Johnson [:And and but we're human. We're human. Call. Resolved those issues as every show that has cohost should and can and will.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. And, you know, it just is It's a it's an opportunity to to get yourself out of a rut, out of the dark, out of, like you said, out of behind the screen Mhmm. And and really interact with people. And I think in in a lot of ways for me, this has replaced not that I ever did the 3 martini lunches, but that's what this is. I mean, you know, you come down at noon with your coat with whoever else you're you're working with on your show, and you get to have a discussion. And, you know, it's like what used to happen at the dinner table, or at the lunch table during business hours, or at the golf course during business hours. And, you know, you get to do that. And I I think it's in it it's it's it's been essential as far as my intellectual growth, psychological growth, and, really, my my interest in the world.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It's gotten me. Norm has definitely pulled me into watching the news more now. Health healthfully.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Healthfully.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Healthfully. Just, you know, basically, Google alerts about certain things I'll dig dig dig into. I just wanna be prepared when Norman brings up these Out of the blue stories. Like, where the hell did you fight that?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, let's let's talk about Norm since he's not here to defend himself. It's a perfect opportunity. So everybody here like, I've had some dragged out dragouts with Norm on the air, on the microphones, and off the air. Oh, shift.
Brett Johnson [:Oh my god. They're probably even worse than me on on Mike. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:We we've gone at it. And, but Norm showed up because Jared brought him down to be a guest on Lawyer Talk one time. And and norm, we share a lot of, I guess, conservative idealism in what the what in the true sense of it, you know, not a a nonpolitical conservatism where, you know, we certain we believe in a way he believes in a country like I do in a lot of ways. He's he goes in a different direction sometimes than I do in a lot of ways. But I was fascinated by Norm initially because he's like an encyclopedie. Yes. Like, I spew out these World War 2 tidbits, and he just takes off and says stuff that that some of it I know, but, frankly, a lot of it I didn't.
Brett Johnson [:Whether you know, and it's I know what he's saying is the truth, but it's almost that I'm not even be able to dispute that. You just said it So eloquently and and forcefully. He's
Steve Palmer [:like How do you know it?
Brett Johnson [:I don't know how you know it exactly.
Steve Palmer [:He's just he's crazy. Car driver? Yeah. He is a, he's a former lobbyist. He's got a law degree, although he doesn't call himself a lawyer. And now he's a podcaster. He runs a business selling parts for SKUER cars. You know? It's like Yeah. It it, really an incredible guy, and his his his connections to bring in guests and do other things.
Steve Palmer [:So, you know, early on a couple of years ago, Norm was a guest on Lawyer Talk, and now here he is at the table with us. You know, it sort of evolved, after everything after the COVID breakup, we landed in you know, I don't remember. About a year ago today, we just decided. Yep. Let's create common sense ohio show .com. And I remember thinking, alright. I I envision the scroll in my head of what the logo will look like.
Brett Johnson [:And we were confusing listeners too because it really wasn't a lawyer talk podcast anymore. No.
Steve Palmer [:It was due to change.
Brett Johnson [:And and it gets you know, 2 of the 3 people here are lawyers around the table. I'm not. So it's you can't literally call lawyer talk. I mean, I can be I can be Joe 6 back with it, but We are going much more than the law as well. And and that was freeing, as we get back to that term, that we could go beyond the law. Yep. And each podcast need to stay in its own lane, and we found a different lane for for what we were gonna do.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And I think it's it's caught on. And I I joke about all the millions of listeners, but It is catching on. You know? I I I a couple people out in Dayton, a couple people have reached out from Florida, and and not people that I know. That's what's interesting about it. So it's, I think any good business model and maybe this is another lesson in for the for the screen addicts. Like, you can't have it now. Like, it doesn't just take off right away.
Steve Palmer [:And anything I've ever done that's been successful has always sort of emerged, I don't wanna say unintentionally, but, slowly. You know, my law practice, day 1. It was like I had a speeding case. And day 2, maybe I had 2 or 3. But I I I knew intuitively back then not to just go out and buy clients by fancy marketing or anything else. I I because I wasn't ready. Mhmm. You had to take you know, you can you can incrementally put more on your shoulders because you get stronger as you do that.
Steve Palmer [:And that's what's happening here. It's like we we weren't ready initially just to create a blitz marketing campaign with websites and and SEO and video and everything else. We needed to find our our step with the microphones.
Brett Johnson [:Right. And and even our own roles. I I think, you know, advice to anybody that has other people around on their podcast, each person has
Steve Palmer [:to have a role.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And and stay in that lane and understand your weaknesses and your strengths. And Norm brings to the table exactly what you hear on this podcast.
Steve Palmer [:Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:He's the rudder. He's he's bringing the stories. You and I can as well, but we're writing off what he's what he brings is what we're gonna
Steve Palmer [:talk about. Because he's good
Brett Johnson [:at He's good at it. Oh my gosh.
Steve Palmer [:He's good
Brett Johnson [:at it.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And you and I have found a way to respond to those stories and comment on them. Sometimes I've heard the story. Sometimes I haven't.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exact me too. Me too. Yeah. Exactly. I I feel more informed when I know the story a little bit ahead of time that I can at least add something intelligently. Step. But, you know, my role is basically being middle of the road.
Brett Johnson [:I lean a little bit more to the in your definition,
Steve Palmer [:conservative.
Brett Johnson [:Yes. Conserving our rights.
Steve Palmer [:Conserving our rights, conserving what made this country Right. Phenomenal Correct. At the outset.
Brett Johnson [:And looking at it that way. But I also I'll play devil's advocate in in a heartbeat.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Yep.
Brett Johnson [:Because I love bringing that out because that I've seen you change your mind.
Steve Palmer [:I've changed my mind at the table.
Brett Johnson [:At least think about no. Wait a minute. No.
Steve Palmer [:Norm's too stubborn to do that, but he wants you. Again, he's not here to defend himself, though.
Brett Johnson [:No. That's true. I don't think I ever have seen him really change his mind on Mike. Maybe later on. Maybe. Maybe. But no. But that's okay.
Brett Johnson [:He he because he is fact
Steve Palmer [:driven. He is.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Where where he is, he's he's he's got the facts of what he wants to talk about, And he and he's researched it enough to know.
Steve Palmer [:And watching you know, Norm's a perfect example of this. Like and you probably have better you have more experience with this than than I. Watching people on the microphone sort of evolve, as they do more shows in their podcast. I remember the 1st time I was up in my office before we built the studio, and I had to leave the room and sort of regroup. It's like it wasn't going well on my very first show of lawyer talk. And I was like, And I've been on the microphone at the blitz then for a good number of years, a decade. And still to to take over and run a show and do it myself, and not be self conscious and not, you know, not somehow get through, you know, my reticence to to run everything. I don't even know what I'm I don't even know how to say it.
Steve Palmer [:I I guess it was all different. And then as I emerged to it. I became better and better and better at it, and I've watched Norm do that. So you said Norm has these facts, and he wants to get them all out. He would show up with, like, 50 stories. And, you know and he would if if left to his own devices early on, he would just buzz through his stories. But, you know, other people do that. That that's what we have changed and emerged into a show that takes a few good stories, sometimes more, sometimes less, and comments on
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm. Exactly. Which I which I like because I think we need to dive deep into it, and that's what I think engages the listener too of of just listening to us Talk. Not debate, but talk. And sometimes sometimes turns into abate debate sometimes, and that's okay because we've hit a nerve. But that's Yep. That's being, again, being human. We're gonna hit a nerve every once in a while.
Brett Johnson [:It just doesn't make sense, or it's like, wait. Where are you coming from with this? I've seen something different, heard something different. Let's let's flush it
Steve Palmer [:out. Yeah. And and as I like to say, think it through out loud. You know? It's like I sometimes I'm actually thinking through something Norm has given me as I'm speaking. And I, you know, I I I find that One, I think it it it tells you something about podcasting in general, and it tells you, I think, something even deeper about the human brain and our psychology and how we how we, express ourselves, how we come to our own identities is, like, if you don't talk it through like, I think we we we think by verbalizing. And if you don't verbalize something either in writing or in talking or even in sharing it with others, like peer review, which is what a podcast is. Ours is anyway. I think you tend to you deprive yourself of logic in a way.
Steve Palmer [:Because if, like, if you have to write something out, You force yourself not to skip critical syllogistic steps. So if this is true, then this has to be true, then this has to be true, then this has to be true. If you don't if you're not forced in your own head to put it out in order, then you're gonna skip steps, and you run the risk of being wrong.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. That's a good point because I hadn't thought about that with prolific writers. They just don't have an audience to talk to. They have to get it out of their head through their hand.
Steve Palmer [:Through their hand. Yeah. They're writers. And if you ever tried to write a story, it's like all of a sudden, you you start thinking, alright. Here's my character. My character is gonna go get into this kind of trouble with this kind of person, whatever. But then you realize, well, in order to do that, the reader has to understand something else. And then in order to do understand that, they have to understand where the kid came from or whatever it is.
Steve Palmer [:You know? You have to start learning how to set a backdrop and put a story together logically as opposed to in your head. Yeah. I there because I think about this all the time. The I'm gonna I'm gonna to write a book, and it's a lawyer who got in trouble doing this and that and that and that. And then when I really start thinking about writing it, it's almost overwhelming because you've gotta you've gotta create, the logic of the story. And you in your head, when you're thinking about it quickly, you don't do that.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:If you write it down, you do.
Brett Johnson [:And I'm always amazed at how writers, authors don't write themselves into a corner. They want the story to go this way. It's like, oh, man. I had them doing this over here, though.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Now
Brett Johnson [:what? He can't be here or doing you know, that sort of thing. And and maybe they love those problems. I don't I don't know. But I'm I'm always amazed How you know, especially the really, really good writers, how they just like, wow. How does that flow into their head?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Incredible.
Brett Johnson [:It is. It just is. And and I think, You know, some episodes we have do that. It just connect there's a thread that rolls through every episode. Sometimes we hit a home run. Sometimes we don't. Yep. Depends on the news day.
Brett Johnson [:Thing. And and that and and that's okay.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, back to where we started, we're gonna go to a common thread. This happened to us last episode. We took concept that we discussed in our World War 2 moment. Mhmm. And we were able to find parallels and intersections with that all the way through the modern news. And, you know, this is why I was a history major, and I love history. And this is why I went to I I liked law school too, not because I like to go to court and practice law. In fact, that's the least enjoyable part, but it's the understanding of how the world fits together and how it intersects with society.
Steve Palmer [:And the law reflects people, and people reflect the law, and and, you end up with, you know, parallels and and movies running that are that are very similar that cross and and and impact each other. And I think our shows do that. That that's sort of what we like to bring to the show as a as a unique part of what we do.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And and and try to stay consistent so the listener knows what what to expect when they give us that 45 minutes to an hour of their day, And we appreciate that.
Steve Palmer [:You know, that's a great point. And we we should thank the listeners at this point because it it is look. I listen to several podcasts, and people try to refer me to more, and I try. But it's a commitment. It's a commitment, and we'd like to think we're entertaining. And if we're not, don't listen, or maybe give us a try a little bit more. But it's a we appreciate that anybody takes the commitment to listen to us babble
Brett Johnson [:on. Yeah. Especially especially after some episodes that we know Wasn't that the that wasn't the greatest. Yeah. You know? We got through it. But we got through it. But, you know and luckily, more times than not, it's not. We we'll we'll we'll we'll Cut the mics off and go, that was good.
Brett Johnson [:That was good.
Steve Palmer [:You know? Good.
Brett Johnson [:Felt good maybe just for us, but, you know, if nothing else, it's therapy. You're listening to a therapy session for 3 guys.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. That's what this is. This is therapy. I learned something every single day. I learned something today when we sat down at the table, and you told me about books in World War 2. I learned something when I checked my World War two fact, and I've learned something more just talking to you. So it's like, and, you know, the the the great news is that we're not the only ones that can enjoy this. Right? Anybody can come.
Steve Palmer [:And if you got an idea about a podcast, and you're in this area, give us a shout. Look us up, channel 5 one one.com. I promise you, You will enjoy it. When when we sit you down at the roundtable and you experience for the first time the the mixed audio of your own voice in the headphones as you talk into these high end microphones in a setting where it's optimized for sound. You will be blown away.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It's funny you you bring up with the roundtable because it it'd like an I I remember growing up listening to a radio station on Fort Wayne, Indiana, w o w o. Woah woah. And they were masters of, the theater of the mind Because it was just a simple old station, but they were 2nd floor of this building. They had a fire escape next to the studio, And they would always say, well, the temperature outside the world famous, fire you know, what will fire escape? They would say that over and over and over and over and over and over again, and all of a sudden this fire escape became a part of the lexicon. Yeah. And I think the roundtable's become the same way. I I I think listeners don't realize we literally have a round table.
Steve Palmer [:We have a round table. It's not just a metaphor. It's an actual round table.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And and and we say this magic around the roundtable and such. It is. You sit, and I have guests in here. They put the headphones on for the 1st time. They talk into these microphones, and they kinda go, oh, I sound good today, don't I? Yeah. They they they start, and and they get into it because they're that's the first time they've ever heard their voice. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:That is. And And and and and they get over it very quickly, and they're loving how they sound.
Steve Palmer [:And it it it's amazing what a little bit processing can do with a little bit of, sound quality or the the environment can do. And then it's amazing what you can do yourselves with with your own voice. People learn how project a little bit. You learn how to inflect where you need to. You learn how to talk in public. And, you know, it's an incredible, exercise in public speaking, really, just to sit around and talk to people, because that is speech. That is speech. And there's a history behind this roundtable.
Steve Palmer [: d he passed away, I think, in: Steve Palmer [:And, we didn't like it, but we sat. We put the round table down here, and I was I I didn't wanna use it for this. It was like it was my mentor's table. I wanted it to be for my law practice, but, it couldn't have be better placed than where it is right now.
Brett Johnson [:And that's a nice memory of him before this table too. The the description you have of him, that's that's a nice memorial of him.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. And this was his he had a private he had a little conference room off his office, and this is where that sat. And this is where he met with people. And, you know, I got used to sitting at the roundtable because I would go interview clients with him when I was a law clerk, a law student. And I got used to the idea of this roundtable. And even upstairs in my conference room at the office now, it's it's racetrack shape. But I always put the client or whoever I'm talking to at the end, and I sit next to them, so we still have that rounded edge. Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:And I find when people are across from me, it's it's far less inviting even at even in an informal meeting. I really like having people, at a round table. I I find it.
Brett Johnson [:There's no king or queen position. Yeah. Yeah. Even though you're setting your client at the king position I
Steve Palmer [:do that on purpose.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. What we yeah. You're doing on purpose, though. There is a design why you do that.
Steve Palmer [:And I it it I couldn't even it's not that I intended to do it that way the first time, but sort of instinctively, it's like, They're the most important person
Brett Johnson [:here. Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:And I mean that. I mean, like, the person that I'm trying to help is the most important person in the room, not me. So they get the head of the table. It's they're they're here, and and they want my help, and they're the most important person because they're here. And, you know, that so I always have done that. And sometimes it makes people it's off putting. I people I have to force them to that
Brett Johnson [:I can imagine. Sure. Exactly. They're never they never sat in a position like Probably. Yeah. You know? And and and that's where I think the equalizer is with a with our roundtable.
Steve Palmer [:There is no more important place on that table.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:And there was a time that we used to have a cart with the recording equipment that we'd wheel over because there wasn't now I'm sitting over here. We're talking about the round table. I sit sometimes over here at the command center, and it feels awkward. But, there was a time I would we would all sit at the roundtable, and I would just wheel a card over and hit go. And we've now obviously, increased the technology and updated, so we can do it from the table. So, yeah, come experience the roundtable, and and it's it's it's all part of what has now become Common Sense Ohio.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. And and, you know, I think this is a good time also to say if you wanna be a guest on Common Sense
Steve Palmer [:Ohio. Yeah. You know, I love talking to people. And you guys, I I I shamefully missed the the veterans guest, but a phenomenal show. And you know what? Nobody is more important than anybody else. If you if you run a business and you've got some insight into anything we've talked about or wanna offer insight into anything that you think we should talk about.
Brett Johnson [:You have your own podcast, and you want to kinda cross promote and talk if we talk about similar things and you wanna get in front of our audience, we'd love to get in front of yours. Yeah. I mean, whatever the case might be, There's a microphone open for you.
Steve Palmer [:And, yeah, that's simple. You can go to Tutor employee. You can go to multiple places, but you can start at commonsense ohio show .com. We get people that reach out to us, that way. There's an interface and a contact us tab. You can check me out at palmerlegaldefense.com. That's my law practice, Brett, at circle two seventy media.com?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Or go to my podcast guy.com.
Steve Palmer [:My podcast guy.com. And and, you know, I I just a plug just to just to throw 1 your way, Brett. It's like if having your input on my early podcast was critical. And, you know, with your radio background, with, your marketing background, with just being in the industry, it made all the difference to have a professional sort of say in a non a critical but non offensive way. You know, maybe I'll try this. Maybe we'll do this. Or Mhmm. You know? And then it's it's helped it's helped me learn.
Steve Palmer [:So when we you know, we sit down with people who are starting their podcast, like, listen. Here's here's what works, and we know it works. It doesn't mean we're gonna change what you're talking about, but here's sort of a format that works. And and
Brett Johnson [:It's it's understanding Not the rules, but the best practices of doing this because this is still the wild, wild west. You can do anything you want.
Steve Palmer [:You can. And I think this is another sort of philosophical notion I've kicked around the last few years. It's like when you have infinite possibilities, it's really akin to no possibilities because there there is no discriminatory choice at that point. Everything is everything is there. So this is, like, this is what spoils people. If you could buy anything you want. What do you buy? Mhmm. It all has the same value.
Steve Palmer [:If you have infinite money to buy what you want, everything has the same value. So nothing has any value at that point. You know, we as we we attribute value to things by comparing them to other things. And if everything's the same, there is no value. And this is like my anti collectivism rant at the same time. So what I've what I've learned in my podcasting is that a lot of people, me included, thought, well, I could I could do shit. I could do this forever. I can come down and talk about it.
Steve Palmer [:I I got so much talk about it. I can talk about it. And because you you have no limits on what you can talk about. But when you sit down in front of a mic, you freeze because you realize you can talk about everything, but you don't know what you're gonna talk about because you can talk about everything. And what are you gonna choose? Because you know what you you know, it's like you you have to have rails on it. Mhmm. And that's where you came in with guidance and say, look. We need a structure here.
Steve Palmer [:Don't have to be rigid. Don't have to be completely, in unflappable, but you gotta have a structure. You gotta be able to to stay within some boundaries here. So you're giving the listener something, sort of like the novel we talked about. If you just rant it on sort of in, you know, the the think think of the different author styles. You had, like, the Dickensian styles where they told he told a story. And then later on, you had sort of these postmodernists who would just sort flower around, and they're very difficult to read. And maybe, you know, then you got, like, maybe in the middle of that, you had Hemingway.
Steve Palmer [:It's like little punctuation, and it was very difficult to follow. Right. You know, what do you wanna be with your podcast? Are you gonna be all over the place? Are you gonna be a Dickensite, or Shakespeare where everything makes sense and it wraps up at the end. Are you gonna open sorta like what we do? Open like, we we have boundaries, but we tend to to float around, but it's all within some context of a
Brett Johnson [:structure. Correct. And and and and and that's for you and for the listeners well too. Yeah. We we expect certain things. Listeners expect certain things to happen during an episode just like you do when you watched Friends, let's say. Right. You knew what was gonna happen in Friends every week.
Brett Johnson [:Yes. Just knew it was gonna be a be a beginning. There's gonna be some laughter. Joey's gonna get in trouble. And then
Steve Palmer [:it wraps up.
Brett Johnson [:And it wraps up. Everybody's happy, and it moves on to the next episode.
Steve Palmer [:And then Seinfeld comes along and breaks the mold.
Brett Johnson [:Breaks the mold. Exactly. Right?
Steve Palmer [:Where it's like right after and I think they're one after the other. I forget which one. I think Friends was first then Seinfeld. And it was like a show about nothing. But, you know, but you still had it had still had some boundaries. They had the same apartment. There was the same test characters. There was the same, you know the personalities that were consistent.
Brett Johnson [:Expected what you did expect from all the characters. Yeah. That that was the that was the boundaries.
Steve Palmer [:But it it
Brett Johnson [:You expect a certain thing from Steve. You expect a certain thing from Norm. You expect something from Brett.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. And and but it's different all the time. It's different all the time, though. And that's the trick. So, I guess, to I think we've said our piece about podcasting generally, and now I think we're all sort of happy that it has emerged into Common Sense Ohio. I there's there's lots to come in the future. We have guests lined up. We have, great topics lined up.
Steve Palmer [:Norm is always chomping at the Brit to being more chomping at the bit to bring more, more, more, more. And now we now I'm just gonna make a shameless request for your support, for the listener support, not not giving us money. I mean, look, if you want to, we'll take it. Look. We we do this for free. And and we've got Harbor Plus sponsoring us and others. But your support in in liking it, sharing it, give me feedback. Give us feedback about what you like and what you don't.
Steve Palmer [:Go to common sense ohio show.com. If you don't if you think I'm a a moron or I got some history wrong or I'm just reading, guess what? You're probably right. Right? You're probably right. And I could use the criticism, and share it with your friends and share it with your neighbors.
Brett Johnson [:We got tough skin.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah, we got tough skin.
Brett Johnson [:I don't care.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So we'll wrap up this little sort of, third view episode, as as we always do. You know? We'll we'll we thank you for listening. Like, share, promote. Do whatever you can. If you got a question, check us out at commonsense ohio show.com.
Steve Palmer [:You're onto your own podcast, channel 5 one one dot com. Even if it's just come down and let us hit record for you and let you leave with a jump drive full of, your own content. We can do that too. And then, you know, looking forward, Lots more to come with Norm at the table, with guests at the table. And as always, we thank our sponsor, Harper Plus Accounting. And if you believe me, he is there he is there to help you. So, next time, we'll be back to the full roundtable. We'll be back to the full Common Sense Ohio experience, and we'll be coming at you again as always right from the middle at least until now.
