In Episode 226 of The Business Development Podcast, Kelly Kennedy welcomes back serial entrepreneur and CFO-turned-forum-founder Justin LaRocque for a raw and powerful conversation on what it really takes to build a business — and a life worth living. Justin shares the behind-the-scenes story of how he transitioned from leading a successful family business through an exit to launching River City Leaders Forum, a peer support network for business owners navigating the emotional rollercoaster of entrepreneurship. He opens up about the hidden cost of hustle, the importance of community, and how creating space for “slack” in your schedule can be the key to long-term success.
This episode is packed with value for business owners at any stage — covering burnout, balancing family with ambition, personal branding, and why Edmonton needed a more accessible, age-aligned leadership forum. Justin also breaks down how he grew both River City Leaders and ROC Advisors intentionally, using quarterly focus, referrals, and strategic outreach. Whether you’re scaling your first startup or deep in the trenches of leadership, this conversation will challenge your assumptions and remind you what really matters.
Key Takeaways:
1. Entrepreneurship can be incredibly isolating, and peer forums provide vital emotional and strategic support.
2. Burnout is a real threat, and building intentional slack into your schedule helps prevent it.
3. You don’t need to sacrifice your family for success — investing in them now is just as important as investing in your business.
4. Strategic growth works best when you focus on clear 90-day objectives, not endless hustle.
5. Fractional CFO services offer huge value to growing businesses without the overhead of full-time leadership.
6. Community-focused leadership models can outperform traditional forums by being more affordable and intentional.
7. Word-of-mouth referrals only happen when you ask clearly and directly for them.
8. Young entrepreneurs benefit most from being surrounded by others in the same life stage who understand their challenges.
9. Emotional health should be treated as a core business priority, not an afterthought.
10. Success is less about size and more about sustainability, freedom, and fulfillment.
River City Leaders Forum: https://rclf.ca/
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Welcome to episode 226 of the Business Development Podcast.
Speaker A:And today we're joined by the unstoppable Justin Laroque, a serial entrepreneur, transformative leader and founder of both Rock Advisors and River City Leaders Forum.
Speaker A:Stick with us.
Speaker A:You don't want to miss this episode.
Speaker B:The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.
Speaker B:Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship by how much you squeezed out in any one deal.
Speaker B:And we couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:This is the Business Development Podcast, based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world.
Speaker B:You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business development reps.
Speaker B:You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by Capital Business Development capitalbd ca.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.
Speaker B:And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker A:Welcome to episode 226 of the Business Development Podcast.
Speaker A:And on today's expert guest interview, I bring you a returning guest, Justin Larocque.
Speaker A:Justin is a seasoned executive and entrepreneur with a deep background in finance and leadership, having achieved remarkable success in multiple ventures.
Speaker A:As a chartered accountant with a decade of experience, he has led significant organizational transformations, including driving over 250 million in cost saving initiatives and guiding companies through successful exits.
Speaker A:Justin's expertise spans from scaling startup ventures to managing financial operations for large publicly traded companies.
Speaker A:With revenues ranging from 5 million to 3 billion.
Speaker A:His strategic vision and commitment to excellence have not only doubled revenues, but also propelled industry changing technologies to new heights.
Speaker A:Beyond his professional achievements, Justin is deeply passionate about driving change and helping organizations and individuals reach their full potential.
Speaker A:As the founder and CEO of Rock Advisors and River City Leaders Forum, he continues to inspire and lead with a focus on innovation and growth.
Speaker A:His journey is marked by a relentless pursuit of excellence, and his leadership has consistently delivered transformative results.
Speaker A:Justin Laroque is not just a leader, he's a catalyst for success, reshaping industries and empowering others to achieve their goals.
Speaker A:Justin, it's really great to have you back.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me back.
Speaker C:It's humbling to hear that.
Speaker C:So that's a mouthful.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you said that last time, so it's only gotten to be more of a mouthful because you're even more successful than the last time.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, thank you.
Speaker C:Yeah, at least one of us thinks so.
Speaker C:That's perfect.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:My gosh, dude, it's good to have you back.
Speaker A:I have to say that honestly.
Speaker A:Episode 12 Patience and perseverance with Justin Larocque.
Speaker A:You were like my third guest, dude.
Speaker C:Well, and it's humbling.
Speaker C:So for.
Speaker C:For context, that week you called me and said, hey, you know, do you want to be on the show?
Speaker C:I was like, yeah, that.
Speaker C:This is amazing.
Speaker C:We actually, I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker C:We did it at like 5am I was down in my basement still.
Speaker C:I was just getting my clients going.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, so very humbling.
Speaker C:Now It's.
Speaker C:It's not 5:00am And.
Speaker C:And yeah, in a proper office and such.
Speaker A:So it' oh my gosh.
Speaker A:Yeah, I do remember that.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:I think that was the only 5am interview I have ever done.
Speaker A:I've done one 5am and one 5pm and I think, yeah, that's it.
Speaker A:It's like you and Colin Christensen.
Speaker C:There you go.
Speaker C:Okay, well, I'm even more humbled now.
Speaker C:Yeah, one of the two.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was pretty funny because I was listening to our show back ahead of this interview just to.
Speaker A:Just to re.
Speaker A:Listen.
Speaker A:And man, like, we did a great job on the first show.
Speaker A:And so if you're like hearing this and you like talking to Justin, you like this conversation, you should definitely go back.
Speaker A:Episod episode I think it was 12 patience and perseverance with Justin Laroque.
Speaker A:It was a long time ago, but, man, we talked about some awesome, awesome stuff.
Speaker C:Yeah, we covered a lot of ground, so hopefully we can replicate today, so.
Speaker A:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker A:But Justin, episode 12 was like a super, super long time ago in context, like probably a year and a half ago at least, if not longer.
Speaker A:As of this recording date.
Speaker A:This isn't even the release.
Speaker A:So by the time this comes out, we're probably talking closer to two years since that conversation.
Speaker A:So refresh us, man.
Speaker A:You know, who is Justin Laroque?
Speaker A:How did you end up on this serial entrepreneur journey?
Speaker C:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So kind of just a little bit of a refresher.
Speaker C:So the last time that we spoke, I just finished the process of leading our family business to an exit.
Speaker C:And then I ran that business as the CEO.
Speaker C:We integrated another one for about a year.
Speaker C:And so when you bumped into me, I had just left that venture and started up Rock Advisors.
Speaker C:So Rock Advisors really was going to be a fractional CFO shop that, you know, big buzzword these days.
Speaker C:So that.
Speaker C:That's where we were really going to play at that time.
Speaker C:I was playing around at the idea of starting a second company, River City Leaders Forum.
Speaker C:And at the time, we hadn't Incorporated that one.
Speaker C:So really, you know, this time, last time we were on the call, I had just started that I'd already grabbed a couple clients.
Speaker C:So I was pretty fortunate.
Speaker C:I was having some early success in those days, and I was going to build out a team at first, you know, and so when we bumped into each other, I had those clients, I was thinking about a team, and I shortly pivoted after that.
Speaker C:I said, you know what?
Speaker C:I want to focus on the family.
Speaker C:Summer was.
Speaker C:Was approaching, and so I pulled back on that and consolidated down to a couple customers.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I don't want to get too far ahead.
Speaker C:That's where we bumped into me last time.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:No, man.
Speaker A:And, like, you know, I remember talking to you, and we're going to get into River City Leaders Forum, but I remember talking to you, like, over a year ago.
Speaker A:And I remember.
Speaker A:I remember exactly where I was, actually, because I was driving and I remember talking to you, and we were chatting about that.
Speaker A:I don't think you'd quite launched it yet, but you're like, hey, Kel, have this really awesome idea.
Speaker A:Just leave this with me for a little bit.
Speaker A:We're going to chat again soon, but I think you're going to like it.
Speaker A:And you've done some stuff with that since then.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So what happened with that?
Speaker C:At the time when I was the CEO of the last business, I was approached by a leader forum organization, and they said, hey, we have this really valuable tool.
Speaker C:Basically, we curate groups of CEOs or key roles, and we put you into a monthly forum, and you guys get to share your issues and experience.
Speaker C:Share.
Speaker C:And for me, at the time, you know, our business was struggling.
Speaker C:We were trying to turn it around, and I was like, what a tremendous resource, but I am a cheap accountant.
Speaker C:And so they showed me the whole model, and I was like, this is amazing.
Speaker C:Like, how much is it?
Speaker C: h, it's only, you know, about: Speaker C:And I was like, oh, geez, there's that cheap accountant in me.
Speaker C:And so that mixed with my entrepreneurial side.
Speaker C:I was like, yeah, I could probably just do it myself.
Speaker C:So three years ago, I started hunting out other similar CEOs and founders.
Speaker C:And the big thing for me was I wanted to curate around my age just to get people in the same life stage.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, three.
Speaker C:Three years ago, we.
Speaker C:We formally kicked off the first group.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And so I was.
Speaker C:I had that informally on the side.
Speaker C:And so when we connected, I'd been running that for multiple years and always knew I wanted to bring it into Edmonton, specifically Edmonton.
Speaker C:You know I, I grew up in High Level about eight hours north but I've lived in Edmonton for, you know, over a decade now and I love it here.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:This is where our family is.
Speaker C:And so during that two year odyssey with that group we end up calling it River City Leaders Forum and so naturalized like well that's what we'll incorporate.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C: So May of: Speaker C:So the exact same format as these forms which is we go out, we curate groups of CEOs or key roles and basically we put them together in a monthly format and they experience share.
Speaker C:It's, it's really straightforward but kind of the two biggest tweaks that we do, there's three things, I guess the first one is we try to curate around age and the reason for that is just life stage can matter when you're encountering issues.
Speaker C:You know, for me a struggle for me was, you know, I was in my 30s at a young family struggling business.
Speaker C:It's a little bit harder for me to relate to, you know, a 50 year old that has grandchildren and an established business.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So that's something we really try to do is, is get those average age around five years to the average.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So the farthest part you'd be is about 10 years.
Speaker C:So that's one element of it.
Speaker C:Second element, they tend to run them for full days and for us we're like, you know what I think let's skip the speakers, let's skip all the other stuff.
Speaker C:We just do half day sessions.
Speaker C:So that's the other thing that we do.
Speaker C:And then the third thing which really was why it sparked, we do it for 200 bucks a month and 20% of that we're going to push back into Edmonton.
Speaker C:We'll actually have our first grant here that should be out.
Speaker C:Depending on when this is released, it'll either already be out or will be out shortly after that.
Speaker C:So we're going to start pushing 20% of our revenues into Edmonton, kind of either business grants, we'll look into scholarships, donations, things like that.
Speaker A:So dude, that's amazing.
Speaker A:And you know, for the people listening who maybe have never experienced what a leadership forum is, can, can we just go into why they're important because me and you both know we've been entrepreneurs long enough to know that entrepreneurship is pretty lonely.
Speaker A:It is a challenging, challenging profession.
Speaker A:A lot of the times you have Ideas, but it's very hard to validate them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You're trying to Google, has someone done this before?
Speaker A:You might call a mentor or a friend and say, hey, I have this idea, but what do you think?
Speaker A:But I think it can be really hard to find people that are experiencing the same thing as you.
Speaker A:So, you know, obviously me and you know what they're about and why they're important, but let's just chat to, like, maybe some new entrepreneurs, ones that haven't experienced anything like this.
Speaker A:Maybe they're not even entrepreneurs yet.
Speaker A:They're on the fence, they're about to make the jump, and they're like, what do you mean?
Speaker A:Entrepreneurship's lonely?
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, so I mean, the primary aspect, I'll, I'll tackle it two ways.
Speaker C:One, we'll talk about how the form actually goes, like the, the structure of the meetings.
Speaker C:But before that, you know, the reason it can be lonely, right, Is, you know, you start up this business and you have grand visions and, and then reality hits, right?
Speaker C:You know, you earn revenue, but you haven't actually got paid.
Speaker C:You know, cash flows, falling behind it.
Speaker C:I think we actually talked about cash flow tips in our last podcast, so we did.
Speaker C:So refer back to episode 12 for that.
Speaker C:But, but so, you know, you're.
Speaker C:You're running into cash flow issues.
Speaker C:Maybe you've got a couple employees and you're sitting there and it's the end of the day, and you're like, you know, I'm lonely, right?
Speaker C:I don't want to bring this stress home to my family and, and, you know, have my kids and my, my partner have to deal with that.
Speaker C:It's not appropriate to really discuss with my employees.
Speaker C:You know, they're depending on their maturity.
Speaker C:They probably haven't tackled something like this before.
Speaker C:And so you just, you really end up in a spot where you need somebody to bounce ideas off of and just validate.
Speaker C:Hey, like, I'm not the only one going through this, right?
Speaker C:Or I'm not, I'm not crazy.
Speaker C:Again, like, sometimes you get great ideas out of these forms, but other times it's just having somebody listen to you, right?
Speaker C:And, and, and that's really, you know, we, we can go further into that maybe on this podcast, but that, that's the kernel, right?
Speaker C:That's really.
Speaker C:If I, if anyone said, why would I join a forum?
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:There's nothing really like entrepreneurship right there.
Speaker C:There's nothing really like the highs and the lows because they're just so high and they are so Low.
Speaker C:And then maybe just to give structure around how that would come to be in a forum style.
Speaker C:So what happens is we tend to meet from noon to 5, you know, and that's pretty conscientious.
Speaker C:Everybody wants to get home to their families.
Speaker C:So we try to do it during the business day.
Speaker C:So what we'll do is, is noon to 1, we'll break bread together.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So we rotate hosts and.
Speaker C:And we bring lunch in and.
Speaker C:And we break bread together.
Speaker C:And that's more informal, just the ability to make relationships.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because that is another nuance of this.
Speaker C:Like, you are building your network.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's not the primary function, but undoubtedly when you share stuff, you just become closer.
Speaker C:So that's from 12 to 1 and then 1 to 2, you have a check in.
Speaker C:So you're really checking in on, you know, how's work going, how's family and friends, health and hobbies.
Speaker C:And really, this is just getting people centered around how are they in the meeting today?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Sometimes somebody will come in and they're having the best month of their life.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And other times somebody comes in, they're having the worst month.
Speaker C:And that's going to calibrate for the people in the meeting on how they want to speak to that person.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:If they're having a tough month, you know, you might want to have some softer gloves in that meeting.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then really where the.
Speaker C:The true value is derived is after that, you get into issue processing.
Speaker C:And so that's the.
Speaker C:The fundamental element of it.
Speaker C:So what you would do is, you know, let's say I was a member, and it can be the full gamut.
Speaker C:It can be, you know what, I'm considering buying another business and I've never done this before.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Has anybody done this?
Speaker C:Can you share your experience or recommend like a trusted advisor or.
Speaker C:It could be all the way to the other side.
Speaker C:Hey, you know, my partner and I are struggling, or, you know, my kids are getting older and, you know, they're struggling to understand why dad's not home, things like that.
Speaker C:So it can literally be the full gamut, whether it's business to personal, it's the whole being in the form.
Speaker A:My gosh.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, when you touch on the cost of this, I just kind of laugh because, like, I've been to personal therapy.
Speaker A:Personal therapy at this point is 220 bucks an hour.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Not.
Speaker A:Not 220 bucks or not 200 bucks a month.
Speaker A:You know, like.
Speaker A:And when you consider that that's kind of what you're ultimately Getting is like an entrepreneurial therapy session.
Speaker A:I think it's worth every penny.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:It's like.
Speaker C:Like I say, so we started in May, and this kind of maybe transitions a little bit into selling and stuff, but when we first got going, so we had our original set of members, so there's six of us.
Speaker C:We had one member.
Speaker C: irst member joined in June of: Speaker C:And by November, I think we're still around seven or eight.
Speaker C:But slowly, through a couple different strategies, we're actually up to about 26 members right now.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:So, yeah, so we've had a lot of success, so.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:And like, for the age groups, do they tend to be on the younger side or are you getting some people that are a little bit older?
Speaker C:Well, yeah, you know, we have a little bit of everything.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So as an example, you know, we have a couple different groups popped up right now.
Speaker C:So how we curate is on role, on size of company and on age.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And so kind of the two groups that we have, speaking to the age side of it, the one group would have an average age about 36, and the other group has an average age probably about 43.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But with that, we actually have some younger individuals that, although they aren't entrepreneurs, they're in key roles and they're under 30.
Speaker C:And so they've actually expressed interest in this idea as well, just because the owners of their businesses that they work with are in our clf.
Speaker C:And they said, hey, this seems like a great tool.
Speaker C:So as an example, I'm actually curating, like a young professionals group that would be under 30.
Speaker C:And then on the other side of that, I've had individuals that are in their 50s that have reached out and said, hey, you know, I'm still on the entrepreneurial journey.
Speaker C:I would get value out of this as well.
Speaker C:So, you know, really, we see the focus kind of in that 35 to 45 window.
Speaker C:But with that, you know, like I say, we are curating a younger group, an older group.
Speaker C:And again, you know, we've talked about this from the entrepreneurial perspective, but really it's for all leaders.
Speaker C:And so, like, as an example, I'm halfway through curating a CFO group as well.
Speaker C:You know, like a large organization, CFOs, you know, different needs for those styles of groups, but.
Speaker C:But ultimately, you know, still some value.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, totally.
Speaker A:One of the questions that I have is, are you finding that it is established entrepreneur Established?
Speaker A:I mean, like, they've.
Speaker A:They've been in business a couple years, right.
Speaker A:Like, let's just say a two years on average.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I think, I think in the beginning, like you said, as entrepreneurs, we jump in with both feet and we're like, all right, we got this.
Speaker A:We'll figure it out.
Speaker A:But I think by the time you're weathered, by the time you've done two, three, four years, you're like, holy crap.
Speaker A:Like, I've been in the ring a minute.
Speaker A:I think I might need some help with this.
Speaker A:Are you finding that that is the typical entrepreneur who is joining River City leaders, or are you getting some of these like, like brand new entrepreneurs?
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I would say it's a little bit of a mix.
Speaker C:I bet if you looked at the average, you know, I.
Speaker C:I think again, with age also, I find they tend to be in business for longer.
Speaker C:I think that's a natural association.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I would say, you know, we have some that would be like pseudo startup, you know, less than a year.
Speaker C:But for the most part, I think you're right.
Speaker C:You know, it's kind of over that two year hump where again, you have the euphoria of the first year and it's like, I'm my own boss and I'm doing it and I'm loving it.
Speaker C:And, you know, who cares about the wave that just, you know, tossed me over?
Speaker C:I can do it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:By the end of year two, that wave's not as fun.
Speaker C:You know, you're like, maybe I want to learn to surf instead of swim through this thing and, you know, get some resources to help.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Oh, my goodness, dude, I was laughing so hard when I was listening to mine and your first show literally this morning.
Speaker A:I wanted my recap and I was like, my gosh, I was so ambitious.
Speaker A:I wasn't beaten up and weathered by this podcast yet.
Speaker C:Well, you've done pretty good, though.
Speaker C:You've stayed very consistent.
Speaker C:I mean, you said that you were going to do it and you've done it, so that's hats off to you.
Speaker A:Thanks, dude.
Speaker A:Thanks.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:First off, just let me pause here and say, like, gigantic thank you to you, because if it wasn't for our very first guests, I'm not sure that I would have been able to continue this thing, man.
Speaker A:But, like, we were so fortunate to, you know, have you.
Speaker A:Come on, have so many amazing initial guests.
Speaker A:That really motivated me and encouraged me because I know at that point you're like, hey, you know, you're doing a great job.
Speaker A:Just keep this up.
Speaker A:And I remember we had a video chat because we were.
Speaker A:You were looking at that time to start potentially a video series.
Speaker A:Did you ever do it?
Speaker C:I didn't do it.
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:I honestly, like, maybe it's a good or bad thing.
Speaker C:I realized when you said what had to be done, and I was like, yeah, you know, I'm not prepared to do that.
Speaker C:So I.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker C:Yeah, I was like, he's right.
Speaker C:And that's a lot of work, and I just don't think I can do it right now.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I'm sorry, and you're welcome.
Speaker A:It's so funny because it's like, even since that time, obviously, video podcasts have kind of took off, peaked, and then now it's going back again because people are realizing that these video podcasts, people aren't.
Speaker A:Aren't really watching them.
Speaker A:What they want to do is still listen to podcasts.
Speaker A:And so we've, like, honestly, since me and you met last, it's ridden this wave of, like, oh, everyone's doing a video podcast.
Speaker A:Oh, wait, only 2% of people actually watch the videos.
Speaker A:Oh, we're going back to audio.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah, it's been a.
Speaker A:It's been a crazy ride.
Speaker A:So if you look at, like, what is successful, for instance, for video podcasts, obviously, it's like Joe Rogan and all these, like, big, highly produced shows where you can bring guests into your studio, interview them right on the spot.
Speaker A:But, like, you know, one of my favorite shows is, like, a podcast called Scared to Death.
Speaker A:They literally did.
Speaker A:They do.
Speaker A:They do horror stories.
Speaker A:It's hilarious.
Speaker A:But if you.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker A:Big shout out to Scared to Death.
Speaker A:But yeah, they did video shows for five years, and they, like, just shut it down, and they literally come on.
Speaker A:They're like, we're not doing video shows anymore because there's only, like, 2% of our listeners are even watching the videos.
Speaker A:We're an audio show.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:Like, I've been saying that since the beginning, and I've been talking to so many people that podcasts are an audio experience.
Speaker A:If you want video, there's a million YouTube channels.
Speaker A:But a podcast is an intimate audio experience.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I'm, like, a strict believer in clips.
Speaker A:We use clips now.
Speaker A:I think they're really important to let.
Speaker A:So that people can see what's happening or, like, important ideas.
Speaker A:But my gosh, like, I.
Speaker A:I still don't think that I would want to watch my own show.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker A:But I'll listen to it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that's fair.
Speaker C:Like, I love listening to podcasts.
Speaker C:When I'm like, Doing the laundry, driving around.
Speaker C:Like, it's.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I usually don't sit down with my iPad and, you know, watch the whole thing, so.
Speaker A:Well, to me, I think that that's the benefit, right?
Speaker A:It's like, it's a nice, passive audio experience.
Speaker A:Most of us are entrepreneurs.
Speaker A:If we're listening to a show like this, we're.
Speaker A:We're leaders of some type.
Speaker A:Like, it is not like an average person who listens to, like, this.
Speaker A:It's people that are looking to grow, looking to do better in business, looking to grow their business.
Speaker A:And, like, let's get real, me and you, we're like, we probably block our calendars like no tomorrow just to make anything work, because we're trying to balance family life, work, and in your, like, in and on a side hustle in both of our cases.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah, very true.
Speaker A:So time is so critical, right?
Speaker A:It's like, the more things that I can do at once.
Speaker A:And I get it.
Speaker A:It's not always ideal to do two things at once.
Speaker A:But, you know, listening to podcasts is one of those things I always do when I'm doing something else.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Well.
Speaker C:And you know what?
Speaker C:As a.
Speaker C:As a side comment to it, so Alex Hormozi, who also does, you know, books and podcasts and all that stuff he.
Speaker C:He made in his books, he writes that you.
Speaker C:If you read and listen at the same time, it almost, like, heightens the value out of it.
Speaker C:And so I've tried that a little bit as well.
Speaker C:So, like, when.
Speaker C:When you kind of say, like, how do we, like, mash things together to be super efficient is.
Speaker C:Is like reading and doing the audiobook book simultaneously now.
Speaker C:I've tried that a couple times, so.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:And since the last time me and you met, we've interviewed so many authors, and I'm like, I'm such a stickler for it.
Speaker A:I won't interview an author until I've read one of their books.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I think it's wrong.
Speaker A:I think it's wrong to interview an author or a leader who has a book and not read their book.
Speaker A:And yet I know so many people are like, well, why do you do it?
Speaker A:You don't have to read their book.
Speaker A:I'm like, I do, though.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:Like, I need to know.
Speaker A:I need to know what it is they're saying so that I can have a much better conversation.
Speaker A:So on the show, I read every book, but, dude.
Speaker A:Oh, in some cases, I'm crushing out four to five books a month, and it's Like, I'm sure for some people, that was normal.
Speaker A:That was never normal for me.
Speaker C:You're dedicated to the craft, so it's good.
Speaker A:Yeah, Yeah, I think.
Speaker A:I think there's a right and a wrong way to do everything, and unfortunately, I try to do everything the right way.
Speaker A:That's not always the fastest way, though.
Speaker A:So, Justin, I want to get into what it's been like to grow this leaders forum, right?
Speaker A:We talked a little bit ahead of the show about, like, momentum and flywheels and essentially different sales tactics and different things you've used.
Speaker A:And I think that's, like, super relevant for something like this.
Speaker A:We live in a time where personal branding is becoming more important than ever.
Speaker A:And I kind of see, like, what you're doing with River City Leaders is really building a brand which ultimately will associate with you, which is kind of cool.
Speaker A:So talk about that like people are looking to build a personal brand.
Speaker A:What has worked for you?
Speaker C:Yeah, so.
Speaker C:So what I've done.
Speaker C:So when we first started River City Leaders, you do the first thing that you always do in sales, right?
Speaker C:You reach out to who you know.
Speaker C:And so that's what I did.
Speaker C:I reached out to my personal network and just kind of pinged and saw if anybody would be interested.
Speaker C:And so, you know, to give our listeners kind of an idea of, like, the timelines on these, you know, I incorporated in May, and so through the summer, I was fortunate, got to hang out with the kids, so I was moving a little bit slower on the bd, but by the end of summer, I'd probably reach out to most of my network and kind of saw if there was interest or not.
Speaker C:And so coming into September, October, you know, I was starting to get into, like, Friends of Friends, right?
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So again, starting to branch out on that network.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And I guess a couple interesting things about.
Speaker C:About selling.
Speaker C:The first one is this.
Speaker C:So when I was in the Friends of Friends stage, I, I.
Speaker C:It was actually about October, and I'm driving to the.
Speaker C:To the forum, our original one with a forum member, and I said to him, he knows I'm trying to grow the thing, and it's.
Speaker C:It's the importance of this, the ask.
Speaker C:Okay, so all these four members knew I was trying to grow the business, and I'm driving with them.
Speaker C:And I was like, yeah, you know, I'm really struggling to fill this last role.
Speaker C:And this is the person that I'm looking for.
Speaker C:And then I turned to him and said, do you know anyone?
Speaker C:He's like, you know, it's funny that you asked like, yes, I know the perfect person.
Speaker C:I will connect you to them right now.
Speaker C:And it was so interesting because I've been talking for the past several months about, you know, I need to find these members.
Speaker C:But it wasn't until I had them, you know, one on one in my car directly asking.
Speaker C:And so I think that's a really important thing, right?
Speaker C:I think in, in business we assume that because we're associating with people, they're going to ask us to do business with them.
Speaker C:That is definitely not the case.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:That, that is, you have to explicitly say, I would like your business.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:I would like your help, you know, and so, so that was in October.
Speaker C:So I added add that member.
Speaker C: And going into: Speaker C:I thought that by that point maybe we'd be at 12 or 15 members.
Speaker C:And like I said, we were probably about seven or eight.
Speaker C:And so I was like, okay, well I'm gonna have to switch it up.
Speaker C:What am I going to do here?
Speaker C:And so I actually registered for LinkedIn sales navigator and I was like, I'm just going to start reaching out to people and giving them the basic pitch in the connect message and see what happens.
Speaker C:And so, you know, I like, great tool.
Speaker C:You know, it's a thousand bucks a month or a year, excuse me, you get full visibility to the LinkedIn network.
Speaker C:It's basically a pseudo CRM, I would say.
Speaker C:And so what I started doing is drafting different messages.
Speaker C:The first one to connect and then the second one once I've connected, and so on, so forth.
Speaker C:And I was able to have a lot of success with it.
Speaker C:And long story short, I went from 8 to 26 within the last about five months.
Speaker C:So that was really successful.
Speaker C:And then, so this is, you know, tying that into the flywheel.
Speaker C:So now where we are is, you know, people in the forums are, the forums are starting to pop up and they're starting to see value out of these forums.
Speaker C:And so now we're getting the flywheel of referrals, right?
Speaker C:So, so in the last couple months, we've already had three different referrals come our way.
Speaker C:And so this is, this is the, the really interesting part about building a business, right?
Speaker C:You start out and it's a really slow grind.
Speaker C:You know, you tick to one, you tick to two.
Speaker C:You feel like you're fighting up a mountain mountain, but eventually find certain strategies.
Speaker C:And, and so what we've now found is like, I Say, you know, I.
Speaker C:I do outbound on LinkedIn, so I do, you know, probably about 30 to 50 connections a week, all within the Edmonton community.
Speaker C:And typically I'm able to get about three coffees out of that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, and like per month.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So it works out pretty well.
Speaker C:So we've been able to do kind of cold outbound.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then, like I say, the referrals are starting to stack up and so we're starting to get more and more referrals.
Speaker C:And so really, you know, I almost shouldn't say this out loud, but I do say this to other people.
Speaker C:But there is a tipping point as well, because currently right now, we're still a young forum.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And there are others in town.
Speaker C:So we're about 26 members.
Speaker C:The others would be about 125, 150, and they've been around for decades.
Speaker C:And so the interesting tipping point that, you know, maybe the next time I'm on this podcast is that we're actually, I suspect, going to be able to pull over entire forum groups, you know.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:That's really, you know, where I think we'll be able to go.
Speaker C:Because again, you know, we're an Edmonton focused group.
Speaker C:The price point is, right, we're giving back to the community.
Speaker C:And so really, once we're able to establish our credibility, I think that's the thing that's missing still.
Speaker C:We're, you know, we're just over a year old.
Speaker C:That's where I'll.
Speaker C:I think you'll really see the.
Speaker C:The cool things happen because again, like I say, most of these forums are about 125.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, a decade from now, you know, I really believe.
Speaker C:Believe will.
Speaker C:Will be north of 2, 300.
Speaker C:I really believe that.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know what, And I know you, so I kind of feel like you're.
Speaker A:You're probably gonna do it.
Speaker A:One of the cool things about it is just the fact that, you know, it's affordable.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:I think like a lot of these, most small businesses or even medium businesses can't justify $2,000 a month for.
Speaker A:For something like that.
Speaker A:It's just not.
Speaker A:But we do need the help.
Speaker A:Like, that's the thing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, we need the help young entrepreneurs.
Speaker A:We're struggling because we don't always have that mentorship maybe that.
Speaker A:That older generations had.
Speaker A:And I think a big part of that is because we live in this, like, weird, connected time, but nobody's really connected.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:We're supposed to be more Connected than ever.
Speaker A:And yeah, you know, I'm sure if you look at any of our linkedins, we look like we're connected as crazy.
Speaker A:But like, the reality of like interpersonal close connections, many of us only have a handful, me included.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, and you know the interesting part about that?
Speaker C:So when we were starting the very original group years ago, we'd actually fully curated it and Covid hit actually.
Speaker C:And so we actually made the decision to not meet until that was fully resolved just for that very reason, because we said, you know, we want to be able to develop like true connection.
Speaker C:And if we start this up, not everybody knowing each other, because I, I curated most of the group and so they knew me, but not each other necessarily.
Speaker C:We were like, we don't know if we'll have the success that we're looking for.
Speaker C:And so that, that's to that very comment we actually have, like, in person is, is a, is a mandatory requirement of it.
Speaker C:And just, I want to go back for a second just so that I don't throw too much, you know, shade at the other forums.
Speaker C: ds to do it, even paying that: Speaker C:We're just offering it at a much lower price point.
Speaker C:But, you know, I don't want to, don't want to ruffle too many feathers, you know, the value is absolutely still there for all these other forums are forums for everybody.
Speaker A:Should all business owners join a forum?
Speaker C:If you were to ask me, I think you should.
Speaker C:Now, the common, you know, call it objection in our sales cycle that we get is, well, you know, I have a board or, you know, my business is fine, or I have great employees, you know, or maybe I don't have time.
Speaker C:I don't have time's probably the biggest one.
Speaker C:But I think the thing that I would say to anybody that's thinking that is it's great when it's going well, right?
Speaker C:But it's in the tough times that the forums are really worth it.
Speaker C:You know, if, if you go to your forum meetings and let's say you have 10 to 12 in the year, you know, you might go to eight of them and be like, you know what, if I didn't go to this, I'd probably still be okay.
Speaker C:But when you're in a tough time, you know, there's, there's going to be two to four that you go to in a year when you're having a low time and you can bounce off or, or, you know, have a sympathetic year, and that's going to be all that value delivered in that point in time, you know.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:Yeah, so.
Speaker C:So that's really what I would say is, you know, like, make the time.
Speaker C:It's one of those things, you know, emotional health, such a big topic these days.
Speaker C:And this really is just that, you know, you called it therapy, cheap therapy, emotional health.
Speaker C:It's all those things.
Speaker C:Things.
Speaker C:So, so for me, I, I just see a ton of value in it.
Speaker A:When you're in the forums because obviously do you.
Speaker A:You lead them or you just participate?
Speaker C:Yeah, so what we do is, you know, each, each one has a different.
Speaker C:Each of these forums has different styles.
Speaker C:So with rclf, what we do, I personally curate the groups and then I will facilitate the first three to six meetings and then after that we turn the facilitation within the groups.
Speaker C:So I'll.
Speaker C:I'll elect a moderator within the groups and keep in touch with them and make sure that we're still maintaining consistent formats.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But that's how we do it basically is we curate, we build momentum and connections in the first three to six meetings and then we turn it within the group.
Speaker A:One of the questions that I have is what are some of the challenges that you're seeing coming up over and over and over again in these groups?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, I think that that's an important standpoint.
Speaker A:And the reason being is that sometimes if we understand what the challenges are that are coming up, someone listening right now might be like, you know what?
Speaker A:That's me too.
Speaker A:I think I need to show up to something like this.
Speaker A:So I think maybe speaking to what are some of the topics that are coming up in the forum?
Speaker A:What are some of the challenges that you're seeing Edmonton business owners facing and you know, what are some of the resolutions maybe that have been put forward?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And so, so what I would say, I'd start off by saying, you know, the actual forums themselves, a huge pillar for them is confidentiality, you know, so I can't necessarily share other members things on this, on this podcast, but what I can speak to is, is things that I've brought into the forum over the years.
Speaker C:And what I would say is, like, this is very similar to other people's shares, you know, so I'd want to respect other members.
Speaker C:You know, confidentiality is big.
Speaker C:So I'll share some of the things that I've been able to Bring that I would say are relatively consistently heard by other members, you know, so I think, you know, something that's coming up, we had it.
Speaker C:So again, I had it.
Speaker C:We had a family business and my parents, you know, had run that business for a decade plus and they were ready to get out of business.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so I think what happens is you're trying to find, you know, should we bring advisors in for this exit?
Speaker C:You know, am I going to get what I think this business is worth?
Speaker C:You know, how can I leave this business?
Speaker C:What am I going to do once I leave the business?
Speaker C:So I would say that's, you know, a big topic that I really use the forum for is to get both the experience share from individuals that had left their businesses or had gone through the process and kind of issues and obstacles they encountered.
Speaker C:So, so I think that that would probably be, you know, a big one that we see right now.
Speaker C:Especially, you know, you have the baby boomers.
Speaker C:And so, you know, whether it's exiting or entering businesses, I think that's a huge thing.
Speaker C:And you know, I think we'll continue to see that for the next five, 10 years.
Speaker C:So, so that would be, you know, a topic that I see arise often something that, you know, we, we struggled with.
Speaker C:And, and again, other members have allude to this, you know, getting employee engagement, you know, specifically in the last couple years, you know, like kind of post Covid, I don't, I don't think there's a new thing for, for listeners to hear.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But I just think it's a, it's a different world, you know, you know, get it getting, you know, loyalty.
Speaker C:I think was it something that, you know, pre Covid, people still were loyal to companies.
Speaker C:But, but maybe loosely.
Speaker C:I feel post Covid a lot of people have knowledge acknowledged like, hey, this isn't, this is just a contract at a point in time, you know, the concept of loyalty is, has really kind of gone away.
Speaker C:And, and so I think, you know, that's hard as a business owner, right, Because I think, you know, before it was very much like, hey, let's get you that education or why don't you take a couple extra days or why don't you do this right?
Speaker C:And, and now because of the reset on that relationship, I think a lot of owners struggle with, you know, what is the right level of investment for employees and you know, what is fair for them, but also for us.
Speaker C:So that, that would be another kind of hot topic is so kind of like entering and exiting business, you know, managing the employee relationship in this new world.
Speaker C:And then, and then probably the other one, and this is a broader bucket would just be like again, emotional health at the family level.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Growing a business is really hard.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:And, and so it's really just.
Speaker C:And again, probably more experiencing share and.
Speaker C:Or experience share as well as just having a sympathetic year, I guess, of, hey, you know, I had a really busy month, you know, and I didn't really see my family.
Speaker C:Like I should have.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And, and having people look across the table at you and say, a, like, I've been there and that's.
Speaker C:And that's tough.
Speaker C:But then B, you know, also holding you accountable and saying like, but you also need to improve, you know, like this, like, we're here to help you and support you and listen to you, but like, like, we've got to hold you accountable too.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And family's important.
Speaker C:So I think those are kind of three topics that you would see arise in a lot of forums.
Speaker A:Yeah, I would say probably one of the largest, if not the largest challenge I've faced since I became a business owner.
Speaker A:Since I launched this podcast has been Family Balancing Balancing Life, which I have just come to the conclusion that it's total bullshit and work life balance doesn't exist.
Speaker A:But I've had other people say, well, it does is, but, you know, you have to make it exist.
Speaker A:And I actually agree with both points.
Speaker A:What's super funny is I've talked with incredibly successful people on this show who have said I earned it.
Speaker A:And you know, in my opinion, that's kind of what I've ultimately come to with a conclusion with work life balance.
Speaker A:And, you know, I've talked to a lot of people who feel one way about it or it doesn't exist on the other.
Speaker A:But I do think that, like, there's a point in business where you get to earn it, but like, in my experience, like, anything worthwhile in life, you.
Speaker B:Got to work for it.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, this is true.
Speaker C:This is true.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Now, now I'm curious.
Speaker C:So to.
Speaker C:To drill into that.
Speaker C:When they say they've earned it, what, what does that mean, do you think?
Speaker A:Okay, so there was a guest that I had on the show who basically, basically busted their ass for 10 years and now they're down to working, you know, four or five hour work day and, and that's it.
Speaker A:Like, that's all they need to work.
Speaker A:Like, that's where they're at.
Speaker A:The business runs itself.
Speaker A:Now if they want to put in work, it's four to five hours A day, and they get to have that.
Speaker A:But it's like, in my mind, they had to work 10 years in the business, on the business, to get it to a stage where then they could achieve balance.
Speaker A:And that I.
Speaker A:On some levels, that's nice because it's like, oh, it's something to look forward to.
Speaker A:But on the other hand, it's like, my God, that's 10 years.
Speaker A:Like, my kids are gonna be grown up in 10 years.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker C:Yeah, very true.
Speaker A:How much are you willing to sacrifice?
Speaker A:And I think that.
Speaker A:But for a lot of business owners, that is the question.
Speaker A:How much are you willing to sacrifice to succeed?
Speaker A:Because it's not going to come without some level of sacrifice.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker C:You know, and I think, you know, my, My framing on that, you know, and maybe I would.
Speaker C:I'd kind of veer on the other side of the spectrum, and I've kind of learned this through experience, both good and bad experiences.
Speaker C:But, you know, I think for business owners, it's great to put the time in on the business and think that in 10 years, you know, I won't have to work as hard because I put all the time in the business.
Speaker C:But I think you have to think about your family and friends in the same lens.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So if you're not putting time into family and friends 10 years from now, that's when you have to put all the time in and you're behind.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So, I mean, I think compounding works on both sides of that coin.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think that can be, you know, a hard lesson to learn, you know, is when you get five years down the road and you haven't put that time in and put that investment in, and you don't.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:You aren't seeing any compounding on the friends and family, and it is going the other way.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I think that's the.
Speaker C:The dangerous side of that coin.
Speaker C:So I don't know.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, it doesn't.
Speaker A:Whatever you're focusing your energy into is what's going to grow.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And if you're not focusing it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I totally agree with you.
Speaker A:But my gosh.
Speaker A:And this is something that I think going to a forum is very important for, because I think on a certain level, every business owner is struggling with this because we all care about our businesses.
Speaker A:We all want them to be successful.
Speaker A:We're all pouring our hearts and souls and finances into them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:To make it all work.
Speaker A:But you only have, you know, roughly eight hours a day.
Speaker A:To put into your business for the most part.
Speaker A:And I know most of us are probably putting in more like between.
Speaker A:If you have a side hustle, you're probably putting in 12 hours a day.
Speaker A:But that's not the point.
Speaker A:The point is, is that it does, it can take the best of you.
Speaker A:I think that's an easy way of saying it is that your business can really take the best of you.
Speaker A:And then unfortunately, your family, your friends get what's left.
Speaker A:And, and you know, like, I've had plenty of nights from like, crap, like I am burnt out by the time 5:00 comes around, yet that's the time that like, my family needs me to be on.
Speaker A:And I know I've, I've struggled immensely with it.
Speaker C:I think, you know, like something that I found helpful.
Speaker C:And you know, I'm a planner to a fault.
Speaker C:So not, this is, this is not healthy level of planning.
Speaker C:I want to openly acknowledge that.
Speaker C:But so, so being an accountant, I actually have an Excel that I update every month, which kind of has my monthly budget, you know, and then has like my investment calculator that, you know, has an assumed return and so on, so forth.
Speaker C:And the thing I find most helpful for, for that is it actually shows me, you know, I have a number in my mind that I want to get to, to be able to kind of say I'm, you know, retired.
Speaker C:Right, sure.
Speaker C:And it helps you kind of realize when I'll get to that number.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And the reason why I think that's important, you know, I kind of think about business and just life in general.
Speaker C:Like, like you're running a marathon or something.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:If you don't know, or just running a race maybe is a better framing.
Speaker C:If you don't know where the end is, you don't know how to pace yourself.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I think that's something that business owners should really stop and, and think about is, wait a second, like, how big does this business need to be to get to where I want to go?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because it's, it's great to say, oh, I've got a billion dollar business, you know, and, and my family does not like me.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I think almost universally most people would not say they're striving for that.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker C:So, but very, like, not very often do I hear an entrepreneur say, this is the level of growth, this is the end point.
Speaker C:And as a result of that, I can now have all this flexibility in these other areas to kind of do what I want.
Speaker C:Because I know that if My business grows at 8% per year.
Speaker C:This is where I'm going to probably end up.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:That's something that I've taken to framing on.
Speaker C:And so as an example, I actually do the work about three days a week and then two days a week I have relatively flexible, you know, so, and that's conscious because I look at, okay, well, what growth do I need to get to my end point?
Speaker C:And you know, instead of thinking of retirement as this endpoint, what if, what if I was able to work three days, you know, would I work another five years?
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:If I, if I could enjoy two days right now, for two days later on.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So anyways, I think those are, that it's an interesting framing for, for people to think about is like, how big does this need to be to get to what I actually want?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And, and I think again, as entrepreneurs, you know, a lot of people start the business because they're like, well, you know, I want a Ferrari and a couple houses, you know, maybe a villa.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, but I think push come to shove, you actually got to stop and say, like, okay, well, if you want that, you are gonna have to work really, really hard.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Is that really what you want?
Speaker A:So I think, I think we jump in with both feet without thinking what the cost would be a lot of the time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I've met enough entrepreneurs to know that that is at least in the beginning, that tends to be the case.
Speaker A:We just jump in and we're like, all right, we got this.
Speaker A:But it's like, as you get further and further down the line, it's so funny because I think we sell ourselves this idea.
Speaker A:And like, I think, I think, you know, it sounds like you've got it figured out, but I think a lot of us sell ourselves the idea that we're going to become entrepreneurs, we're going to make more money, we're going to work less.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the exact opposite happens.
Speaker A:We typically make less money and we work more and harder than we've ever worked in our entire life.
Speaker A:Life.
Speaker A:And then hope for this.
Speaker A:Like, hope that long term this is going to pay off or we're going to have that reward.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But it's like I've talked to so many entrepreneurs where that was the case.
Speaker A:They quit their amazing high salary career for an entrepreneurial job where they work twice as hard and make half the money.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's just like that for a while.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I think, I think we all end up in that trap a Little bit, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:I think, you know, like any good entrepreneur, there's a balance, Right.
Speaker C:You know, most people sit on the side of the pool and they're like, the water's too cold.
Speaker C:It's not the right time.
Speaker C:You know, could I even swim?
Speaker C:You know, And.
Speaker C:And so I think, again, entrepreneurs are those people that are just like, ah, how cold could it be?
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:I'll figure it out.
Speaker C:They jump into the water, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I do think, like any good swimmer, you know, you can take a couple strokes and.
Speaker C:And, you know, really, really get exuberant.
Speaker C:But at a certain point, the best swimmers have to stop and refine their technique, figure out how far they're going and what they're doing, you know, And I bring this up because I've just been learning to swim properly over the last little bit here as I get into triathlons.
Speaker C:But that would be my comment, right?
Speaker C:You have to have the mix.
Speaker C:You got to jump in and not be afraid of how cold the water is or if you can swim and that you can do it.
Speaker C:But at a certain point, you also have to calm down and assess, like, you know, how fast do I really got to go here?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:How have, like, you.
Speaker A:You are a serial entrepreneur.
Speaker A:You've jumped into, you know, you've had a family business, you've had your own multiple businesses.
Speaker A:And, you know, talk to me a little bit about the side hustle, because I know that, you know, knowing you, you're a bit of an expert in the side hustle.
Speaker A:How have you been able to, you know, do Rock Advisors, for instance, and grow River City Leaders forums at the same time and still have time for life?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, Great question.
Speaker C:Yeah, I.
Speaker C:I think, you know, again, I.
Speaker C:I've.
Speaker C:I've been very intentional of my time.
Speaker C:So what I mean by that is, you know, with.
Speaker C:With Rock Advisors.
Speaker C:I intentionally started Rock Advisors first before our clf because I knew that Rock Advisors was a more tangible sale.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's fractional CFO work.
Speaker C:I'm a.
Speaker C:I'm a chartered accountant.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:It fits into my skill set.
Speaker C:I've done it before.
Speaker C:So really, for me, step one was getting enough money in the door that, That I felt, okay, I.
Speaker C:I can now slow down and pace myself.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So going back to the analogy, I had to jump into the water, and I knew that the.
Speaker C:The steadiest way to do it was, was to focus on fractional cfo.
Speaker C:Once I got to a good point, then I started to say, okay, I I think it's time for rclf.
Speaker C:And so I intentionally started it just before the summer because I knew I was going to spend time with the kids.
Speaker C:And, and so, you know, consciously again in the summer, I said, I'm going to have RCL or I'm gonna have Rock Advisors, but not grow it.
Speaker C:I'm going to focus on my family and I'm going to start telling people about rclf.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And, and so I guess maybe a better way of framing this, I look at it my time by quarters and where I'll focus my efforts.
Speaker C:So then when I came out of last summer, I said, okay, RCLF's going, but I haven't formed my first group.
Speaker C:I've only added people, but I haven't formalized a group.
Speaker C:I need to make that my priority.
Speaker C:And so actually in the latter half of last year, I really tried to focus to get my first group popped up.
Speaker C:So that was my focus there.
Speaker C:Then again, in the, the next quarter, I said, okay, wait a second, a lot of family stuff going.
Speaker C:I'm going to slow down again.
Speaker C:I'm not going to take on new customers here.
Speaker C:I'm not going to hunt down work here.
Speaker C:I'm going to focus on family.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So, and, and so that's what I would say is, you know, I've almost, you know, I'm probably just naive, but I haven't really viewed RCLF as a side hustle.
Speaker C:I've tried to view, you know, my, my time with friends and family or for myself, my time on Rock Advisors and my time as RCLF is kind of like three different quadrants that I want to focus on.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so by each quarter, I've kind of re emphasized where I'm trying to focus.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So like, as an example, in, in the front half of this year, one of my quarters was for RCLF to really try the cold outreach program that I talked about, the LinkedIn stuff.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And because what happens there is then I had to book a bunch of coffees with those people and get them on board.
Speaker C:Then after that, I was very fortunate for Rock Advisors to keep getting referrals.
Speaker C:So the next quarter I actually brought on another CPA to help me out.
Speaker C:So then that quarter I really focused on, okay, I've got to get my staff trained and figure out how we're going to work as a team.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So that's really how I think about my time is quarterly, what is my priority?
Speaker C:Like, what is my objective?
Speaker C:For anyone that's familiar with eos, like, I've Run EOS many years.
Speaker C:What is my rock?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like my 90 day objective.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, yeah, so that's, that's how I thought about it.
Speaker A:It's like very targeted attention to various things.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Like, I guess the question for me is I find that so much in business is unexpected.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, some of the greatest things that have happened to me in business, I didn't even see them coming.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, obviously I put in the effort and it was going there, but like my little human brain could not put together what was going to come my way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I guess my question for you is, is how much of like, like how much of business for you is just like an amazing surprise?
Speaker C:I think a lot of it is amazing surprises.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I, I think this goes back to the time management concept.
Speaker C:This is why I try to build slack into my schedule.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I'll actually give you a perfect example.
Speaker C:So yesterday I was with one of our clients and we had this all day EOS session and.
Speaker C:Right, right to.
Speaker C:We did it off site.
Speaker C:And so the one owner got access to another space from this other owner.
Speaker C:And so, you know, we have the session, it's great.
Speaker C:And we go out for supper last night.
Speaker C:And the owner that I work with is like, oh, hey, by the way, really enjoyed the session today.
Speaker C:And that owner that let us in, they're actually looking for fractional CFO work.
Speaker C:So I gave him your name, you know, can you meet up with this guy?
Speaker C:Okay, so this is last night, okay.
Speaker C:Like 6:00.
Speaker C:So I leave and I have this business card and I text the individual.
Speaker C:And literally today, now, you know, less than 12 hours later, they text me back at 9:20, you know, 9:29, right before we hop on, and they're like, hey, you know, can we grab a coffee?
Speaker C:And I'm like, yeah, sure, let's grab it.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:You know, so I'm gonna go for a coffee here in an hour and a half and maybe it'll turn into something, maybe it won't, right?
Speaker C:But if you don't have the slack to take on the unexpected, this is, this is where you can't capitalize very fast, right?
Speaker C:So as an example, if I was fully booked for the rest of the day and I'm going on vacation next week, now I say to them, oh, you know, I can't really meet for two weeks, right?
Speaker C:And now they don't respond to you in two weeks and before you know it, you've lost the lead.
Speaker C:So that's why, you know, I'm very intentional about building slack.
Speaker C:Because to go to your original question, unexpected things happen all the time.
Speaker C:You know, it's.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:You know, I think my biggest realization with business, this.
Speaker C:I've always thought I'm a.
Speaker C:You know, I.
Speaker C:For better or worse.
Speaker C:And it's probably worse.
Speaker C:I'm a linear thinker.
Speaker C:You know, I've always thought, oh, yeah, an investment, it just kind of does this, or business just does it.
Speaker C:Yeah, it doesn't though, right?
Speaker C:It does this and then this, and, you know, it peaks and valleys.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And you have to be ready for those opportunities.
Speaker A:Totally, Totally.
Speaker A:And speaking to our entrepreneurs out there, if you're having, like, the worst month in your business right now, understand it can be followed by the best month you've ever had.
Speaker A:Like, it.
Speaker A:A business can really be that way.
Speaker A:You know, it can really be like, I feel like when I'm in, like, the worst moments where I'm feeling like, oh, my gosh, like, what did I do?
Speaker A:How did I end up in this place?
Speaker A:It's almost always followed by one of the most amazing experiences from, like, where did this come from?
Speaker A:This is amazing.
Speaker A:You know, like, it's.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:It's an emotional roller coaster, which is why I think, think River City Leaders Forum could be very beneficial to a lot of people.
Speaker A:Because when you're in that.
Speaker A:When you're in that valley, the valley can seem really, really dark.
Speaker A:But what you're not seeing is that next month you could be standing on top of a mountain.
Speaker A:And sometimes you need that.
Speaker A:You need that emotional support from people who've been there to be able to say that to you.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:You know, I think it's.
Speaker C:I don't know if it's originally from him or not, but I associated with Jeff Bezos, but he talks about business is like baseball, right?
Speaker C:So in.
Speaker C:In baseball, he's like, the difference between baseball and business is, you know, you go to bat and you take these swings.
Speaker C:He's like, in baseball, you can only ever get a home run, right?
Speaker C:Or.
Speaker C:Or get a grand slam.
Speaker C:You know, you get four of the guys in, but he's like, in business, you can get like a million X run.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And the reason I bring that up is it's time at that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You just gotta sit at the bat and keep swinging.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so when you're in the lows, just being in the game is the important part.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And even if you're missing the pitches, just being there to catch the next one is so critical.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think that that's why so many podcasts fail, right?
Speaker A:Because podcasts are like anything.
Speaker A:They have great months and they have bad months, and nothing ever seems to make sense.
Speaker A:But if you look at the ones who've made it long term, that's it.
Speaker A:They made shows even when they weren't doing good, and eventually it caught fire and up it goes.
Speaker A:And, you know, we experienced that at the bdp where it was like, for a long time, we had nothing, and then it took off, and then it went down, and then it had nothing, and then it took off, and then it comes down.
Speaker A:It's like, the secret is just to show up.
Speaker A:If you can show up, whether it be to record your weekly podcast, whether it be to just stay in business another month, I think you'll find eventually that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That rocket's coming for you.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, and I think it's, you know, the adage of, you know, if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I think that's where that comes to bear too, right?
Speaker C:Is, you know, if you do what you love for business, even on the low days, you can still wake up and be like, okay, like, I enjoy this, though.
Speaker C:Like, this is still, you know, maybe it's not economically working out right now, but.
Speaker C:But I do enjoy it.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And so that's right.
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:You got to love it.
Speaker A:Well, dude, lead us into Rock Advisors.
Speaker A:We talked a lot about River City, but talk about Rock Advisors.
Speaker C:Yeah, so.
Speaker C:So Rock Advisors.
Speaker C:So, yeah, that was the first business we started.
Speaker C:Started Fractional CFO shop.
Speaker C:And, you know, just like, you've said that the highs and the lows, right?
Speaker C:So we.
Speaker C:I started off and I had this idea of hiring teams, and we're going to work for a million people.
Speaker C:It's gonna be great.
Speaker C:And then kind of, I think around the time we connected, I had early success, got good clients, and I was like, you know what?
Speaker C:I just need to relax.
Speaker C:I just want to work by myself.
Speaker C:I want to focus on my family.
Speaker C:I want to have flexibility.
Speaker C:And so I actually.
Speaker C:I kind of terminated the plans that I had.
Speaker C:You know, I ended up parting ways with one of the clients.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I reconsolidated my time, focused on the kids over the summer, but unfortunately, you know, the.
Speaker C:The bad thing about an entrepreneur is, like, they just can't avoid who they really are.
Speaker C:And so I've been very fortunate with Rock Advisors.
Speaker C:And so what happened was I.
Speaker C:I kept getting referrals, and eventually I got to a spot.
Speaker C:Like I said, I wanted to keep intentional slack.
Speaker C:I got to a spot where I'm like, hey, I can't really take on like a full workload anymore, right.
Speaker C:I, I can help out with these clients, but I, I can't actually do the full work work.
Speaker C: And so in, in early: Speaker C:So about a year from when I started it, I, I said I, you know, forget it all and now I'm right back where I started.
Speaker C:So, you know, that, that's me more than anything where I just, I move too quick sometimes for my own good.
Speaker C:But, but yeah, so we've, we've started to grow the staff and fractional cfo, you know, it, it, it's a huge thing.
Speaker C:It's, it's a big buzzword right now.
Speaker C:I think a lot of people are hearing it, you know, and it's a huge resource.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I think what's happened is traditional model, you know, you grow to a certain size and then you got to bring on a controller and that's going to be 100k plus.
Speaker C:And as you know, a growing business, you're like, wow, where, you know, where am I going to find that money?
Speaker C:How am I going to get the value back?
Speaker C:And so in the simplest thing, and you know, we talked about it on episode 12 as well, but you know, the simplest construct for fractional CFO is you get a fraction of their time.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And for most smaller businesses, you know, and even larger ones, honestly, right, there's fractional CFOs even at Nate.
Speaker C:There's fractional CFOs you know, at post secondary institutions these days.
Speaker C:So, but you just get a lot of value, you know, a lot of bang for your buck.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, so we've been doing the fractional CFO thing and then again, I can't really help myself.
Speaker C:And so now where we started to go is I've really found that the area I really enjoy is a helping with the finance side, but I tend to work with smaller businesses.
Speaker C:Kind of like 0 to 20 million is roughly what we target.
Speaker C:And so I tend to mostly enjoy working with the owners, you know, or the general manager of those business and really talking about, hey, like, what are we doing with the team and how are we running the business better?
Speaker C:And so now where we're going is really starting to focus on EOs, so the entrepreneurial operating system.
Speaker C:So I ran that for a number of years when I was the CEO of the last business.
Speaker C:And so with all of our clients, we've naturally just baked it into our offering.
Speaker C:I pop it up for all them.
Speaker C:But now we'll start offering that maybe as a standalone thing and then the other area.
Speaker C:And I gave a shout out to him last time, Mike Mack with X5 Management.
Speaker C:So I'll give him another shout out.
Speaker C:Mike Mack, X5 Management.
Speaker C:He's amazing.
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:He helped coach me and he introduced me to disc, which is kind of like a personality assessment for those not familiar.
Speaker C:And so actually I started to get into that hat space as well.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So just recently I got disc certified and we'll get five behavior certified, so.
Speaker C:So yeah, so that's Rock Advisor.
Speaker C:So there's three of us in the company now.
Speaker C:We're hopeful to get to probably four by the end of this year or maybe the next or.
Speaker C:Or early next.
Speaker C:But yeah, really just enjoying life, you know, not.
Speaker C:Not trying to run too fast like I said.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love Mike, by the way.
Speaker C:Yeah, he's amazing.
Speaker A:It's funny because the first time you came on I didn't even know who he was.
Speaker A:And now I've actually interviewed him on the show.
Speaker A:I read Lunch With Leaders.
Speaker A:I imagine you will be on the next Lunch with Leaders.
Speaker A:He's an amazing person.
Speaker A:Actually, if you haven't listened to that episode, you should definitely go back and listen to Mike Max as well.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's a great episode.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Well, Justin, that takes us to the end today.
Speaker A:If people want to get a hold of you and they want either Rock Advisors or they want to potentially apply for River City Leaders, how do they do that?
Speaker C:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So if they want to get a hold of me, you know, I've got separate emails for the two businesses, but both of them have the same name starting which is Justin l as in Laroque and then at RockAdvisors CA or at RCLF CA.
Speaker C:And so for River City Leaders, you know, you can go to www.rclf.ca and you can actually in book time with me on there via Calendly so we can get you kind of right into the process.
Speaker C:And then also we're on LinkedIn, you know, so.
Speaker C:So LinkedIn's the other spot.
Speaker C:So again our CLF and Rock Advisors are there as well.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:And I will make sure that all of the links are on the post for the show.
Speaker A:So if you're finding it, come check out LinkedIn.
Speaker A:It'll be there.
Speaker A:Justin, it's been an honor.
Speaker A:Thank you again.
Speaker A:Thank you for everything you've done.
Speaker A:Thank you for being our third guest and you know, now our 226th episode.
Speaker A:It's crazy but it's awesome and it's really good to see you and I really appreciate you dude.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:I really appreciate being on the show and yeah, wish you continued success.
Speaker C:You've done amazing.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Until next time, this has been episode 226 of the Business Development Podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.
Speaker B:This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.
Speaker B: business development firm in: Speaker B:His his passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.
Speaker B:The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.
Speaker B:For more we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.
Speaker B:see you next time on the Business Development PODC.