Join Jeff Melnyk and Carol Kondo in this special bonus episode as they gaze into the future, predicting what's in store for workplaces in 2024.

From the impact of layoffs and AI to the importance of human connection, Jeff and Carol reflect on 2023 and discuss the challenges and opportunities leaders may face in the coming year.

Tune in for their predictions and practical advice on navigating the evolving landscape of work in 2024.

Learn more about Within People and the work we do.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Reimagining Work from Within.

2

I am Jeff Melnyk, based

here in San Francisco.

3

It is the first Well, not the first

podcast of the year because we had an

4

exceptional episode that came out just

the beginning of, of January, but it's

5

the first one that we were recording

this year, fresh off of the break.

6

I am joined today by the

wonderful Carol Kondo.

7

Hi Carol.

8

Carol Kondo: Hi, Jeff.

9

How are you doing today?

10

Jeff Melnyk: I'm good.

11

So I'm sitting here in San Francisco, and

it's probably 64 degrees as usual, because

12

that's always what it is in Fahrenheit.

13

But you are in the height

of a South African summer.

14

Carol Kondo: So true.

15

It's 37 degrees right now.

16

And honestly speaking, we are on fire.

17

That's the best way to

describe this Friday evening.

18

Everybody's by the beach.

19

It's hot.

20

People are As cool as they can be.

21

So I think we have lots of

cool cucumber somewhere.

22

Jeff Melnyk: It's always so interesting

because whenever, obviously you're in

23

your summer, it tends to be, well, 64

degrees here, but thinking about our

24

colleagues in Montana, where it's,

it's super, super cold, Emily, our.

25

Podcast producer, she's in Ski

Ville territory, enjoying the snow.

26

Our colleagues in London are freezing.

27

Obviously our colleagues in

Singapore are enjoying their

28

usual 1000 percent humidity.

29

But for, but what I always

notice is when I'm cold.

30

You're hot, and when I'm warm, you

have the sweaters on, the blankets

31

on, and it's just, I don't think

it's anything I'll ever be able to

32

reconcile in our, in our shared world.

33

Carol Kondo: Honestly, I think it's the

one thing that really, really highlights

34

for me where you are and where I am.

35

I do have it in my mind, but the

minute I go on a call with you and

36

I'm like, oh my god, I'm in a vest,

and he's wearing a jumper, they're

37

like, okay, really, he's away.

38

So quite true.

39

Jeff Melnyk: the differences of our

hemispheres, but the one thing that is

40

consistent in our world is it is 2024.

41

So let's get into it our intention

today is to go through some of the

42

things that we see in our magic

within crystal ball about what might

43

or may not be occurring in 2024.

44

But I think let's paint a little

45

we sort of set the scene a little

bit about what we're working with.

46

And I guess, yeah, my question for you is.

47

You know, South Africa, what's

been, what's been happening?

48

What was, what's been the world of

work like over the past 12 months?

49

Carol Kondo: So it's quite an

interesting question that you asked

50

me because there's lots of things

that are happening, but I think there

51

are two big issues that I really

heard loud and clear in South Africa.

52

And the first one was, Coming back

into the offices, you know, COVID

53

had done a number on a lot of people.

54

We had all moved back home and

people were used to this way

55

of being working from home.

56

It's flexible.

57

I can work in my pajamas.

58

I can decide when to pick up my kids

because the kids had gone to school.

59

And now.

60

We're being asked to come back to

the office and most organizations

61

were saying 95 percent of your

time come back to the offices.

62

And there's quite a lot of backlash

from employees around that because

63

they said it worked during COVID.

64

So what has shifted now?

65

Am I not performing anymore?

66

What is it that you're saying?

67

Is it my body that you want to see?

68

Or it's my output that you want

to see at the end of the day.

69

So that really created

quite a lot of tension.

70

And considering that South Africa

has a very communal context to

71

it from a cultural perspective.

72

They were saying it's good.

73

We come together and

build like team spirit.

74

It's good that we come and

see each other in person.

75

Then we can bond and

work together as a team.

76

And for others, they felt that

wasn't necessary for them.

77

So it was very difficult for business

to find that balance between those

78

that needed physical interaction

and were able to work without it.

79

And those that felt like, you know,

If I don't get it, then I'm really

80

going to struggle to work with my

teams on the same on the same teammate

81

or division, whatever that might be.

82

Jeff Melnyk: Okay.

83

Completely agree.

84

From, from what I'm seeing, not only

here on the West coast and across

85

North America, also what we're seeing

in the UK, I think the return to office

86

is quandary was the big theme of 2023.

87

But I don't think it's going away.

88

I think it's something that

we're still seeing in the ether.

89

And I want to eat some humble

pie here, because I think that I

90

dismissed this as being something

that was going to be a point in time,

91

probably around the end of 2022.

92

Going into 2023.

93

I thought people would resolve it.

94

I was very optimistic.

95

I thought people would.

96

Have some rational sense around

it, but I was clearly wrong.

97

So My prediction powers are off.

98

But what latest fact from Fast Company

is nine out of 10 companies will have

99

some sort of office mandate in 2024.

100

So companies are saying you're going to

need to get back to the office, and it's

101

not going to be a one size fits all thing.

102

It could be random days, it

could be certain teams, it

103

could be certain individuals.

104

And I think what we're seeing is

just the weirdness of it as well.

105

I mean, we, the, I don't know

if if you saw the WebMD video

106

that our producer, Emily, did.

107

I did!

108

Yeah.

109

Let me audio transcribe the WebMD

video, you've got a bunch of executives

110

doing an internal corporate video about

why coming back to the office is so

111

important, but it's not a invitation

to come back to quote the video.

112

It's we aren't asking or

negotiating at this point.

113

We are informing your manager will

be in touch shortly about how this

114

will be implemented and tracked.

115

So you're basically seeing

the mandate is real.

116

You've got to come back.

117

But Carol, why is this happening?

118

Carol Kondo: Honestly, one of the

most interesting arguments that has

119

come through is actually from a DEI

perspective and they were talking about

120

the lack of equity in the different

contexts, especially in South Africa,

121

where we have problems with electricity.

122

So not everyone can afford

to get a router going on.

123

Nobody, not everyone affords it.

124

to have solar energy going on.

125

So if there is no internet connectivity,

how are you supposed to work?

126

And because of the social construct of

South Africa, currently, not everyone

127

can manage to stay in a nice space

where you'll have like a nice office

128

without having your kids or your wife or.

129

Things like people coming in and

out from a spatial perspective.

130

So it kind of heightened, really,

the differences culturally in

131

terms of money, race, and all

those things that come into play.

132

And what the argument there was, if

you come back into the workplace, we

133

provide a very equitable experience

of what work should be like.

134

Everyone has the same chair.

135

Everyone has the same desk.

136

We're all experiencing

power cuts at the same time.

137

So how best do we work

with the challenges?

138

that South Africa is facing at that time.

139

And also things like productivity.

140

People are not finishing their work

as they're supposed to do it because,

141

you know, things, life gets in the

way and if it's Cape Town, people

142

like to go to the beach at summer.

143

So there's, it's very difficult, you know,

for leaders to rally their people towards

144

a certain cause during certain seasons.

145

I don't know what came up on

your end, but for us really.

146

Sits around those differences.

147

Can I afford data as well?

148

Is the company paying for data?

149

You've got a stable internet connection.

150

I don't.

151

And it makes life really complex, but at

the same time I want to work from home.

152

So how do you manage the thin line

between people's personal desires

153

and what they really expect from the

professional context of the workplace?

154

Jeff Melnyk: See, those are

incredible reasons to get people

155

back together in a shared space.

156

Unfortunately, I don't feel

that's necessarily the intention

157

here, especially in the Bay Area.

158

I think it's pure performance panic.

159

I think that with the, with the economic

uncertainty going on and the, we'll

160

talk about a little bit about Right,

sizing the second, but the need to

161

really understand like how to get the

business back into a state of growth

162

or at least the accelerated growth of

businesses we're seeing before, I think

163

that leaders don't know what to do.

164

I think it's a symptom of poor management

with it showing a lack of strategy or

165

any ability to deliver clarity of what's

expected because if you're able to just

166

have a clear strategy with goals for

individuals and get them to decide how

167

they can collaborate at their best.

168

They can work from anywhere

and find their own way through.

169

But of course, leaders who are wanting

to demand a certain level of delivery

170

and find that's not happening would

immediately go to something that would

171

be quite A symptom, not a source,

around, well, our people aren't in

172

the office and I can't watch them and

that's why I won't be able to deliver.

173

And in the WebMD video, there's

a line of, we need you ready

174

and present and we need it now.

175

And I think that was my like.

176

Bam.

177

Thank you for that, for demonstrating

to me, show up, be at your desk, we need

178

to turn this ship around and just you

there are going to make that happen.

179

Carol Kondo: Honestly, Jeff, what

you're saying does resonate quite a lot.

180

With the South African context too,

honestly, because I think the way of

181

leadership that we've always had inherited

from different systems has been if

182

somebody is not at work and you're not

watching them and making sure that they've

183

clocked in like the clock in and clock

out system where you put your fingerprint

184

sits in a lot of micromanagement.

185

making sure people do work without

really giving them the flexibility and

186

independence to work on their own and

creating cultures where people can work

187

on their own without so much supervision.

188

So I think the bigger root off all that

thinking lies in how are we leading?

189

Have we managed to shift

from that yesterday?

190

Yesterday away off leading where we felt

if I'm not farming you and I'm not on

191

your back and making sure that by the time

you leave, you Crossed your T's and put

192

the last dot, then you're not working.

193

So there is something there for the

leaders with letting go, as well

194

with the way you've always been.

195

Which is difficult because you're

asking somebody to let go of who they've

196

always been and how they've always led.

197

And you're saying to them,

trust this individual.

198

Trust that they'll complete their work.

199

Trust that they are an adult enough and

capable enough to complete their tasks.

200

Instead of saying to people,

don't mess with me, which was part

201

of the WebMD video at the end.

202

There's something about

don't mess with us.

203

And honestly, when I read that,

I'm like, okay, this feels scary.

204

Why would I want to mess with them?

205

I mean, aren't we supposed

to be working together?

206

So why are we like subtly

threatening each other?

207

You know, there's something quite

not right about those innuendos that

208

were being dropped by that video

and trying to really rationalize

209

with people like, think like this.

210

See it this way.

211

If you don't come back,

this is what it means.

212

And let's have everybody from

across the board sharing exactly

213

why they think you must come back.

214

So let's get to a point where we can

bring our people around the table.

215

Let them know what we think.

216

They tell us what they think.

217

And we come to a, to that sweet spot where

we can find what works for everybody.

218

Jeff Melnyk: And I think

that's, that's our intention for

219

leaders for next year, isn't it?

220

Like, what does it mean to be truly

flexible, to understand all the needs

221

of everyone in your team so that they

can work and collaborate at their best?

222

And if that is, that People don't

have the right kind of setup at

223

home to work, to collaborate.

224

Offices have wonderful

rationale for existing, right?

225

But if it is that actually certain

people work better at certain times

226

of the day, in certain situations,

in certain environments, how do you

227

understand that and work with that

to actually help everyone be their

228

best self and do their best work?

229

And, and I think if, if the intention

there was like, Investigate what true

230

flexibility looks like, that would really

uncover something remarkable for business.

231

Okay, what was your second one?

232

You said, I think you said there was

two, two, two bubbling in, in the South.

233

Tell us more.

234

Well,

235

Carol Kondo: the one that I found

really quite interesting, pleasantly

236

surprised, and this really also

spoke to my personal opinion, you

237

know, it really shifted me a bit.

238

So I've always thought that AI is

going to come and take everything away,

239

you know, take jobs, take lives, new

hoods, take money from people, like

240

I never thought of AI as a giver.

241

In any context.

242

And right now we are getting to that

place where the workplace is becoming

243

more and more and more AI focused.

244

But what does this mean

for people that lead teams?

245

What does it mean for

the employees themselves?

246

And after a very interesting

conversation, I really got to the

247

point where I understood that AI

actually unleashes creativity.

248

It gives time and opportunity

to teams to grow, think, worry

249

less about some of these things.

250

And for those people that are in

positions where they need to work with

251

people, they have more time to really

sit and have one on one coaching.

252

They have more time to really unpack what

is stopping , the people that they're

253

leading from moving into a more creative

energy or a more task oriented energy.

254

But we assume that.

255

When AI comes to take over everything, the

human beings will be left with nothing.

256

But what I see here is the opportunity

that AI gives us to really step into full

257

humanity without worrying about trying

to add things up, get someone, get AI

258

app to do it, you know, and let's have

more opportunities to be human enough.

259

And we really are about bringing

humanity back into the workplace.

260

So , that's been an interesting

discussion here with how best can we use

261

AI since there's quite a lot of people

that rely currently on human resource

262

rather than AI as a resource that opens

up more opportunities for humanity.

263

I don't know what's coming up on your

end, because I know where you are is

264

the home of AI and things work, so

265

Jeff Melnyk: give it to me.

266

And let me tell you, I mean, you just

need to be driving down the 101 and

267

understand that every billboard in

San Francisco is now an AI billboard.

268

So you've seen the shift from

software as service directly into AI.

269

That means that AI is here.

270

It is the reality.

271

The hot thing.

272

I think we all know that it's in

the news every day, but I'm a bit,

273

I'm also a bit of a pessimist.

274

I'm a bit pessimistic that

that's not in my nature.

275

So, so the Castro theater just down the

street from me has wonderful films every

276

week and One of the series that I really

like shows classic sci fi, and this last

277

weekend was Blade Runner, the final cut,

which is, of course, Ridley Scott's vision

278

for what the film was supposed to be.

279

So, of course, Blade

Runner is the true story.

280

I think it's 2017 is the date that's in

the film as well, which is hilarious.

281

Everyone laughed.

282

Everyone lol'd when

that came on the screen.

283

The true story of when we start to live.

284

Amongst the robots, the

robots are with us, right?

285

And so, so they have physical form,

not just chatbot on my computer.

286

They are actually, they are the

replicants, they are around us.

287

And of course, the original

Story for Blade Runner was

288

actually set in San Francisco.

289

The movie is set in LA, which

works much better for the dystopia

290

because it's just, it just does.

291

But the original book was set

in San Francisco, so I always

292

thought that was quite interesting.

293

But in the, in the, in the in the

story of Blade Runner, the robots

294

have come to take everything, so they

haven't just come to take our jobs,

295

they're here to take, in fact, do

you know if you are a robot or not?

296

Are you a replicant?

297

Carol Kondo: No, I'm not

298

Jeff Melnyk: a robot for sure!

299

But do you know that, Karol Kondo?

300

You don't know, we just don't know!

301

Maybe I was told,

302

Carol Kondo: right?

303

That I'm not a robot?

304

Jeff Melnyk: Exactly, because the

replicants don't know that they're

305

robots, and of course, in Blade Runner,

they only have four years to live,

306

so it's, it's got all the stories of

mortality, and love, and connection,

307

beautiful story by Evangelist.

308

Anyhow if that's our, if that's our

sci fi future where are we today

309

going into that, and I think, you

know, Goldman Sachs released a report

310

saying that 300 million jobs will

be lost to AI in the coming years.

311

I don't know.

312

Two thirds of jobs are exposed,

but to your point, Carol, they

313

said AI is going to increase GDP

on average around the world by 7%.

314

So AI is going to make us more efficient.

315

It's going to make us more productive,

but there's going to be a cost to that.

316

And I think I love your

perspective on this.

317

Like how does it, how does AI support

us to unleash our creativity even more,

318

but in the place we're in right now?

319

It's going to have a very real

human cost for some people.

320

You know, it's having a cost

in the arts with with design,

321

with music, with with writing.

322

We saw the strikes last year in

Hollywood around, you know, if

323

if AI can start writing scripts,

what's our point is as writers?

324

How do we, how do we you.

325

Get around that.

326

And I think, I think what I love

about what you're saying is how

327

does AI help us to understand to be

more human and bring the human in?

328

Let the, let the replicants do their job.

329

How does AI allow us to be more human?

330

And I guess what's your, what's our

intention for that for business?

331

Like if all, if most businesses are

going to be impacted, what do we

332

want to see leaders doing to, to

live into your version of the future?

333

Of the, of the desired future.

334

Carol Kondo: Honestly, Jeff you know, when

people have these conversations around

335

what's going to change in business, what's

going to change, I think the one thing

336

that should never change, if anything,

that we should increase is bringing

337

humanity into businesses, because at

the end of the day, when you go up to

338

McDonald's, it's always feels so much

better when you interact with a real

339

human who ask you about your kids and, oh

my God, you're buying three milkshakes.

340

Is it because is there a grandmother

at home and all have a lovely day?

341

The warmth of just being human is

enough to allow people to feel like

342

this is a place that they can belong.

343

This is a place that they can work.

344

This is a place where they can excel.

345

And we need leaders who understand that

my humanity is actually my uniqueness.

346

That is what I bring to the

fore in as much as the A.

347

I.

348

Can check the numbers, I can bring

those numbers to life in a way that

349

only another human being can understand.

350

So asking leaders to bring that part

of themselves when they work with

351

me as an employee really allows me

to achieve my fullest potential.

352

And when I do that, the

business benefits as well.

353

Jeff Melnyk: So what was coming up

for me there is, okay, leaders need

354

to be more human to understand how

to connect more with their teams

355

and to draw out their creativity.

356

But what if the bosses become AI?

357

Will we ever have a time when your boss

358

Carol Kondo: honestly, speaking with what

I'm seeing around the world, I wouldn't

359

be shocked if my boss turned out to

be AI, but honestly, imagine having a

360

discussion with him about an increase,

like an increase in my salary around.

361

So AI, did you know that these are

the challenges I'm facing as a human

362

being and the AI is like, I totally

agree school fees is expensive in South

363

Africa, Carol, you must be struggling.

364

I think there's something there, you know,

365

Jeff Melnyk: about having

computers, but computer says, no,

366

Carol Kondo: yeah, you know, but then

going back and saying, you know what,

367

I couldn't negotiate an increment

because computer said no, and I'm

368

trying to rationalize my emotions.

369

So in as much as we can mimic

them and create a humanoid.

370

It's like we've heard them being called

in various programs on TV, sci fi.

371

I think it is so essential for human

beings to be met by humans because

372

only a human being can translate a

human experience and use AI to augment

373

and complement the human experience.

374

Jeff Melnyk: It's a tweet right there.

375

We can't, we don't have

tweets anymore though, do we?

376

That's an X right there.

377

We

378

Carol Kondo: have an X!

379

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

380

And it looks like

381

Jeff Melnyk: this!

382

Speaking of X, may I share I feel

like we've got time maybe for one

383

more quick . Trend for the year

that let's set an intention around.

384

And it's something very

real still happening here.

385

And I'm curious on your perspective

in the South African context, but

386

it's this notion of right sizing.

387

I think that we are still

seeing businesses having to.

388

Reorganize and really understand the

right size of their business in order to

389

achieve their goals and maintain a level

of profitability that's sustainable.

390

I feel like the pandemic was a wake

up call for that, not only because

391

businesses made very poor decisions

around the number of people that they

392

needed to hire, the amount of products

and services that they were able to shift.

393

But that there's this a sense of

like, what is this business actually

394

that we're trying to build now?

395

So there's a little bit of a wake up.

396

And to, to piggyback that off of the

I AI conversation Forbes recently had

397

an article that said 71% of executives

say their organization plans to

398

prioritize increasing or advancing their

use of ai, a competitive advantage.

399

Mm-Hmm.

400

that they admit has been more beneficial

to their business than employees.

401

So, they see AI as something that

they would rather invest in now,

402

because it's more beneficial than

the employees that they have, and

403

therefore right sizing also means how

do we start to reorient the business

404

towards our AI future, and actually

do we need less people in business.

405

Carol, what's your thoughts on that?

406

Carol Kondo: I think for me

the question there would be Is

407

it that we need less people?

408

We need the right people.

409

Is it an issue of numbers?

410

It's a quantity and quality kind of thing,

because you can have the right size and,

411

you know, reduce up to the optimum level,

but end up with totally the wrong staff.

412

So there is a whole complexity there

around what do we actually need to

413

deliver, like from a numbers perspective.

414

But in that numbers context,

do we have the right people?

415

And sometimes, It's a combination of both.

416

So in the South African context, I don't

think rightsizing really works at this

417

point because we don't have so much AI.

418

I was so glad, just to take you

back and digress a little bit.

419

So when we went for Within Week and

I checked in via BA, experience of

420

my life, forgive me for saying this

at 40, I was checked in all the

421

way up to security by a machine.

422

Coming to land on the South African

side, I'm like met with real humans and

423

in as much as I admired and loved what

I saw, because it's something that I

424

could share at home, there was something

about meeting people at every point.

425

So from the minute I disembarked, To,

to stamping my passport, getting my

426

bags through, being asked if I need

a trolley, that whole experience full

427

of humanity made me feel complete

and made me feel like I'd been

428

served right in a different way.

429

So as we write size.

430

Can we look at the particular touch

points and really question whether

431

getting AI to create the right size is

the best thing for what we need right now?

432

Or do we just need humanity in the right

sizes that allow us to pay them well

433

and allow us to do what is right by them

from a care perspective as a company?

434

So it's really complex, really answer.

435

Studying that directly.

436

But I still feel like here, South Africa,

we still need more people and right

437

sizing might not be exactly what we need.

438

,

Jeff Melnyk: so it's not, so the word is kind of wrong.

439

It's more like, like a re re

I was gonna say ing, but that

440

just sounds completely wrong.

441

in the context of people's

jobs being shuffled around.

442

Like, it's not like you're gonna your

career, but it's, it's sort of like.

443

The right people with the right

skills in the right place to

444

deliver the right experience

versus just, we need more people.

445

Cause I think what we were seeing in

the pandemic hiring burst and, and

446

especially in those industries that

really benefited from folks shopping

447

online or suddenly needing a Peloton

was there was a lot of over hiring and

448

there, and, and I think what we also

saw was getting people in very quickly.

449

Possibly choosing people who were

not right, rightly skilled, so

450

they didn't have actually what was

needed to help grow the business.

451

A lack of onboarding because there

was difficult to onboard people.

452

People don't have the

skills to do that remotely.

453

They hadn't thought about that.

454

So, so folks didn't thrive in their roles.

455

And I think a lot of the A lot of the

job cuts we saw here around the end

456

of 2022 2023 was a little bit of a

reorganization around who are the right

457

people that we need, but I think, I

think the intention there for leaders

458

is Is to really consider like what is

the business that we're trying to build

459

like in this new future post pandemic

future where things are always going to

460

be uncertain, you know, we're heading

into into a major election here in

461

the US and in the UK next year, things

are going to get funky again, maybe,

462

I think, you know, and so what is the

business you're building for the future?

463

And what are the humans that are

going to take you into that future?

464

AI is not going to take you there?

465

I think what's coming

466

Carol Kondo: up for me, Jeff, as you

speak, like a bit more clarity around

467

the whole concept of rightsizing,

honestly, is if there's no clarity of

468

vision that is being communicated and

translated to employees, it'll lead to

469

that situation where you find yourself

rightsizing because From the get go,

470

your blueprint was not quite right.

471

You were hiring, but

not hiring with intent.

472

And now that we found ourselves in that

place, like you said, during COVID, where

473

lots of tech people were hired and hired

and lots was happening in the tech world.

474

And we had that balloon,

especially here as well.

475

And salaries were inflated

and things like that.

476

And suddenly you ask yourself,

do I need a hundred developers?

477

Yes or no.

478

And the truth really is, if you

thought you were going to grow and

479

take advantage of the two years.

480

As an example, was that really a

sustainable vision, or were you

481

really designing products that

would lead to the betterment of

482

the environment that we live in?

483

So there is something, I'm seeing that

as a symptom of leaders now recalibrating

484

and reorienting themselves around

what it is that they need to achieve.

485

So right sizing is leaders trying

to correct things that they

486

did wrong in the first place.

487

And unfortunately.

488

It means that employees do suffer

because they are the ones that

489

are being shed off at this point.

490

So as we right size,

491

As we right size, maybe it's

really important to ask ourselves

492

our why with the right sizing.

493

When we write size, then what?

494

What is our why?

495

What is our what?

496

And if those things are very clear,

then when you have those conversations,

497

it's easy to explain to someone that

I'm letting you go because of X.

498

X won't allow me to get this

kind of output when you are here.

499

Not because you lack skill,

I don't like who you are, I

500

hired you at the wrong time.

501

But really it gives even

a clearer explanation.

502

Jeff Melnyk: I think you're right.

503

And we probably need to wrap up.

504

My brain is going into all sorts of

different directions, but I think

505

if there's one thing from, from what

you just said, that I feel like is

506

a, is a real intention for leaders

507

the business that you're building?

508

What is the experience you're creating

for your customers and for your, for

509

your people, who are the people that

you need to go on that journey with you?

510

And how are you as a leader going to bring

that humanity to take people forward?

511

I think that sort of reset, recalibration,

reconnection to what we stand for.

512

I think that's so critical right now

and that That gives that certainty of,

513

of, well, as much as possible in an

uncertain world, right, to your people.

514

It gives clarity that this is the

business that we're trying to create here.

515

And I think it gives a sense of

conviction, like this is the direction

516

of travel that we're about to embark on.

517

And, and, and with that vision

of, of where we're going and,

518

and who we are as we travel.

519

That's really powerful

for leaders to step into.

520

That's not, that can be a

resolution, can't it, Carol?

521

That commitment towards it, that

visions are always an intention,

522

an aim of where we're going for.

523

Carol Kondo: A beautifully

painted intention.

524

One that we can all see, one that we

can all align with, one that we can

525

really see ourselves going on together.

526

Jeff Melnyk: Carol, this

has been delightful.

527

There's something that's come up for

me that I think we need another podcast

528

on, because I think you have some

particular expertise that I would love

529

to as we say, pick your brains around.

530

Always reminds me of Indiana Jones and

the Temple of Doom when I say that.

531

But I, but I think going back to what

I was saying before about this is this

532

is a time of continued uncertainty.

533

It's an election year.

534

We are in a place of increased

global conflicts that we can't escape

535

from in our newsfeed every day.

536

There's a lot of division.

537

You know, here in the in the U.

538

S.

539

context, that's very, very

polarizing left versus right context.

540

And and it's a time of increased

awareness around social justice.

541

And I think I think we need to

have a discussion about what

542

does that mean in the workplace?

543

And how do we how do we understand

how to Bring people around something

544

that's common to start to heal that

and that you've done some great work

545

in that and I'm, I'm wondering if maybe

rather than lumping that into today's

546

conversation, maybe we need to separate.

547

little chat.

548

Carol Kondo: Definitely.

549

That would be lovely.

550

Looking forward to that

conversation with you too.

551

Jeff Melnyk: Yeah.

552

All right.

553

Well, let's get that on the schedule.

554

Okay.

555

So I think we've done a bit of a summary,

but any final thoughts, Carol, on, on

556

your hopes and hopes and dreams for 2024.

557

Carol Kondo: Honestly speaking, I would

say to any leader at this point during

558

this lovely recording that we're doing

today, hold yourself with love and

559

compassion as you go throughout the year.

560

Whether it's because of a financial

goal, whether it's because of a

561

personal goal, but whatever it is,

hold yourself with compassion and

562

love and that in itself will tide

you over through a lot of things.

563

Yeah, so happy 2024, guys,

564

Jeff Melnyk: and happy,

565

It's also the year of the

dragon, and let's see where

566

that takes us into the future.

567

Carol Kondo: Dragon energy.

568

Jeff Melnyk: All right.

569

Well, thank you, Carol.

570

And thanks to everyone for listening.

571

We hope you enjoyed a little bit

of reconnection around intention

572

versus resolutions for 2024.

573

Tune into our podcast every month

for more episodes on what's happening

574

in the culture and leadership space.

575

What's on the minds of the

leaders committed to change in

576

our community and other future

of work content that you crave.

577

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