Powerful Product Ladders to Boost Client Attraction
Episode 15828th October 2022 • Women Conquer Business • Jen McFarland & Shelley Carney
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Jen:

Hello and welcome to the Women Conquer Business Show.

Jen:

I'm Jen McFarland, joined by Shelley Carney.

Jen:

We're your go-to small business marketing show covering breaking marketing news

Jen:

that affects you cool apps we found, and how to deep dive into a marketing topic

Jen:

with a side of motivation and inspir.

Jen:

We'll also talk a little about our own entrepreneurial journeys as well.

Jen:

Are you ready?

Jen:

Let's get started.

Shelley:

called Air Guitar.

Jen:

Welcome to Women Conquer Business.

Jen:

I'm Jen McFarland, joined by Shelley Carney, who is doing air guitar

Jen:

because this new intro, we just can't get over ourselves and we love it.

Jen:

. Maybe we should, but we haven't . So this week we are talking about something

Jen:

for everyone, the product ladder.

Jen:

So you might be thinking, what is a product ladder?

Jen:

Well, we're gonna talk about that, but why do you need a product ladder?

Jen:

How can you attract leads and increase sales even in uncertain economic?

Jen:

The product ladder, it means you can't just go out of the gate necessarily

Jen:

offering that $50,000 a year program.

Jen:

You need to help nurture people up into your higher end programs.

Jen:

A product ladder is a range of products varying in price and features.

Jen:

Product ladders make it easier for potential customers to get a sampling

Jen:

of your work or jump in all the.

Jen:

, which is probably what most of us want, and also takes time.

Jen:

People need to get to know us a little bit.

Jen:

You can create a product ladder by breaking services into smaller

Jen:

chunks or offering products together in bundles or packages.

Jen:

How do you get started building a product ladder?

Jen:

Oh, I think that's why everybody's here, right?

Jen:

Woohoo,

Jen:

. Shelley: How's it going, Shelley?

Jen:

It's going good.

Jen:

So I've had some visitors this week.

Jen:

My husband's brother and his wife have been here cooking up a storm.

Jen:

We had some traditional foods from Portugal.

Jen:

They it's something that is actually, it's salt.

Jen:

Dried cod that you reconstitute and then you put cream in it and potatoes

Jen:

and onions and all this stuff.

Jen:

And it takes all day to cook, but it's delicious.

Jen:

And it's called Bcla Ya uh, nata, Something like that.

Jen:

That's cool.

Jen:

Cod with cream.

Jen:

It was yummy.

Jen:

So we've been having a good time with them.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

And Toby and I are getting, Oh, and I just did a show yesterday about my

Jen:

LinkedIn newsletter and how I put it together, and I think that was a really

Jen:

good show and it was only 30 minutes.

Jen:

So if you haven't seen it, go check it out on my YouTube channel.

Jen:

Yeah, that in the show notes.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

And Halloween and Dia Delos, weirdos are coming.

Jen:

And Toby and I will be spending some time this weekend and next

Jen:

weekend getting some footage.

Jen:

Different events going on for celebration, celebrating that.

Jen:

Yeah, so Dia

Jen:

de los Mors is Day of the Dead.

Jen:

John and I have gone to several productions here.

Jen:

We have a theater here called the Milagro Theater.

Jen:

They present different cultural experiences in both Spanish and English.

Jen:

Like sometimes they put I, John knows Spanish much more than I do, but they'll

Jen:

put translations above, or sometimes it's.

Jen:

English , and they're helping us understand culturally what's going on.

Jen:

Do you wanna talk a little bit about the celebrations that go on in New Mexico?

Shelley:

Sure.

Shelley:

Look at this.

Shelley:

Candy Wee

Shelley:

So D de los Meos, they often have a marigold parade.

Shelley:

They have workshops.

Shelley:

I know that.

Shelley:

Toby's young, Toby's oldest daughter, Sean is very involved.

Shelley:

She does face painting of the sugar skulls.

Shelley:

She talks to people about the traditions and they're even having a

Shelley:

workshop on how to set up and alter For the Dio de Los Deo de Los Matos.

Shelley:

If you wanna know more about it, I suggest you watch the movie Coco.

Shelley:

It's a Disney movie.

Shelley:

It's animated, it's got music and it's fun, but it teaches a whole lot about it.

Shelley:

So really great movie to watch this time of year.

Shelley:

So That's so cool.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

That's so cool.

Jen:

So I'm over here in like total like celebration mode.

Jen:

Maybe we should bring the pumpkin back out.

Jen:

I don't know.

Jen:

Really Celebrating over again.

Jen:

Yay.

Jen:

Alan Brooks today, I, she officially came on board the Women Conquer business team.

Jen:

Elan Brooks started as an executive assistant yesterday.

Jen:

We're onboarding, so it's exciting to have somebody joining the team

Jen:

and I'm very excited about that.

Shelley:

She going

Jen:

crazy over here.

Jen:

Magic and the, and the lots of, one of the, That growers, it is going

Jen:

to be Halloween in about four days.

Jen:

Yeah,

Shelley:

yeah.

Shelley:

This is the weekend.

Shelley:

Which

Jen:

is also when I say Aloha

Jen:

. Shelley: Oh, aloha.

Jen:

Very cool.

Jen:

Cause that's when I head off to Hawaii and I'm very excited.

Jen:

What day?

Jen:

Monday.

Shelley:

Yeah, on Halloween.

Shelley:

On Halloween, fun.

Shelley:

See if your flight

Jen:

attendants are dressed up.

Jen:

So yes, I'm very excited about that.

Jen:

And for those of you who have been watching and listening to the show

Jen:

for a while, we have episodes for you.

Jen:

We work on that.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

We have pre-recorded episodes so we wouldn't

Shelley:

forget you our favorite people in the world, viewers.

Jen:

That's right.

Jen:

So we have, we recorded two episodes.

Jen:

I think they're pretty good actually.

Jen:

As I was going through and listening to them, editing everything, I was like

Jen:

we've got some good little gems in there.

Jen:

And Eric, I think we always do, We pretty, we always do.

Jen:

And we actually have clips.

Jen:

So maybe we'll be able to tease a few out for you.

Jen:

That's right.

Jen:

Leading up to the episodes, which we've never done before.

Jen:

Cause we don't usually pre-record.

Jen:

That's right.

Jen:

So this is very exciting.

Jen:

One of those episodes.

Jen:

So what did we talk, what did we talk about in those two episodes?

Jen:

Do you remember?

Shelley:

One was about webinar

Jen:

funnels and, yeah, webinar funnel, how to automate a webinar funnel.

Jen:

The other one,

Jen:

, Shelley: can't think of

Jen:

The other one was related to the opt-in episode.

Jen:

Yeah,

Shelley:

it was.

Jen:

Was it like, was it that the emails you need to

Shelley:

automate?

Shelley:

Yeah, it was emails.

Shelley:

That's right.

Jen:

Yeah, that's about correct.

Jen:

So we have all kinds of things that are tied together with all the other

Jen:

things we've been talking about.

Jen:

So as we talk about the product ladder today, keep that in mind

Jen:

because we're going to follow up with things that can help support

Jen:

and promote things on your product ladder over the next couple of weeks.

Jen:

Yep.

Jen:

Even though.

Jen:

Technically we'll not be present.

Jen:

We have thought this through and we have things for you to help you take

Jen:

what the information we're going to share today and we've shared in previous

Jen:

episodes, and take that to the next place.

Jen:

Okay.

Jen:

But before we get started, do we have some breaking news, Shelley?

Shelley:

So today it was just there was a video put out by Rob from Vid

Shelley:

IQ and he's talking about why is YouTube allowing this to happen.

Shelley:

YouTube shorts allows creators to sample clip videos from other

Shelley:

creators, but do they know this?

Shelley:

And what impact could that have on monetization?

Shelley:

What's happening is YouTube shorts.

Shelley:

Well, YouTube wanted to have a product just like TikTok, because TikTok is

Shelley:

taking over the world, so YouTube wanted to get on the train, so they came

Shelley:

out with YouTube shorts, and they've been adjusting it for the past year.

Shelley:

Now they've made it so that you can grab audio off of other people's

Shelley:

shorts and use that to create your own video, just like they do on

Shelley:

TikTok, because that works so well.

Shelley:

In TikTok, they thought, Well, let's do it here.

Shelley:

They're also.

Shelley:

Some music that you can use that is YouTube approved for shorts

Shelley:

and you can put the things together and put out a video.

Shelley:

Okay.

Shelley:

Now the problem, as Rob explained it, and it makes sense to me, is

Shelley:

there are creators out there who are putting out shorts who may be,

Shelley:

they're sponsored by other Yeah.

Shelley:

Companies, and they put out this product specifically.

Shelley:

In cooperation with their sponsor.

Shelley:

And now people are taking their audio, putting it with something else and sending

Shelley:

it out, and they're getting thousands of views, which the sponsors are missing

Shelley:

out on because they're sponsoring the original artist and now that they're

Shelley:

going to start monetizing shorts, They're asking who's going to get the money?

Shelley:

The original person who did the original audio, or the person who

Shelley:

got all views by mashing things together how is that going to work?

Shelley:

So when money gets involved, people get a little upset.

Shelley:

, Jen: right.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

And this is, yeah, Toby's absolutely right here.

Shelley:

YouTube is trying to compete with TikTok, which doesn't account

Shelley:

fort's major markets in Asia.

Shelley:

This question is something that has gone on for as long as art has been around.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Really.

Shelley:

Should Andy Warhol get all the funding or the original picture that.

Shelley:

It was taken by another photographer and he screenshot, mm-hmm.

Shelley:

created all the screen printing and everything.

Shelley:

Stealing like an artist has been around forever.

Shelley:

There's even a book, if you ever are feeling short on ideas, that's

Shelley:

called steal like an Artist, and it goes into that art of doing it.

Shelley:

In this case, we are talking about potentially thousands of dollars

Shelley:

being lost out by creators in a creator economy that is, people

Shelley:

are just trying to get by sometimes

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Really challenging and these sponsorships can be a big deal in a lot of money.

Shelley:

Mm-hmm.

Shelley:

. So it's interesting.

Shelley:

We'll have to keep an eye on it and see what happens.

Shelley:

I, yeah.

Shelley:

And you can opt out with your longer videos, but not with your shorts.

Shelley:

You can't opt out of people sampling.

Shelley:

Right, and pretty soon they're gonna be able to sample your video as well.

Shelley:

So they'll be able to take video from several different creators, mash it

Shelley:

together, put out a video, something else short, and then maybe they get

Shelley:

bunches of views and the other people, maybe they'll benefit from it because

Shelley:

people will see them, but probably not.

Shelley:

Who knows?

Jen:

Yes, We better filed this under Life just

Shelley:

isn't fair, . Just be aware that this is out there and if you're

Shelley:

gonna make YouTube shorts, you need to know that this is what's gone.

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

And because we just can't keep our hands off of TikTok and YouTube today, , we have

Jen:

another story, which is that TikTok in our ever going ongoing saga of what is going

Jen:

on among people who are younger than us.

Jen:

has replaced Netflix as most popular app for those under 35.

Jen:

So last night I presented to Ty Oregon's Excel Bootcamp.

Jen:

It's a startup bootcamp that people have, and it was the first time I had to.

Jen:

To that group that.

Jen:

, Facebook is pretty much over . It's in an ultimate decline, and

Jen:

we just don't know how long.

Jen:

And a lot of it is because as we've reported for several

Jen:

weeks, TikTok is usurping it.

Jen:

The decline of Facebook is real.

Jen:

We know that people under 35 are searching using Reddit and Tick and TikTok.

Jen:

Not even Google as much.

Jen:

So now we should not be surprised to see that TikTok has replaced Netflix as

Jen:

the second most popular app for those under 35 to which Shelley said, what?

Jen:

What's number one?

Jen:

. And it was interesting.

Jen:

What is number one, Shelley?

Jen:

Is

Shelley:

it YouTube?

Shelley:

It's YouTube.

Shelley:

It's YouTube.

Shelley:

Because YouTube is, it's got everything right?

Shelley:

You can watch it all the way from babies on up to as old

Shelley:

as people can possibly get.

Shelley:

There's something on there that can be of interest to them.

Shelley:

So

Jen:

yeah, there's something for everyone on YouTube.

Jen:

So we're covering this because it's interesting.

Jen:

We're looking more at what is really happening with TikTok, and

Jen:

we're also looking to the reactions that these other companies have.

Jen:

It looks like what YouTube is trying to do is maintain.

Jen:

Dominance , they wanna stay, number one.

Jen:

They don't wanna remain relevant.

Jen:

They're making it so that creators can, can steal from each other and,

Jen:

and make mashups just like you can on TikTok, honestly, I don't see shorts

Jen:

as ever becoming as popular as Yeah.

Jen:

TikTok.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

But it does keep people on the platform.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

It, it is good for that.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

and I think I'll post some of our little shorts.

Jen:

We have somebody named Eric who's helping us clip together videos.

Jen:

I think we're gonna start putting those short.

Jen:

At least I will.

Jen:

I'll put them up as YouTube shorts to tease the podcast.

Jen:

Cause they're kind of.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

So that's what's going on in the news as usual.

Jen:

TikTok is dominating.

Jen:

We'll have to, when I get back from vacation we'll steer clear of TikTok

Shelley:

a little bit.

Shelley:

Sure.

Shelley:

We'll, if it's news is the news, what are you gonna do?

Shelley:

That's

Jen:

true's true.

Jen:

Are you ready?

Jen:

? Shelley: Power up.

Jen:

Let's

Jen:

power up.

Jen:

It's training.

Jen:

Okay.

Jen:

We're gonna talk about a product.

Jen:

The question of the training is how can you track leads and increase sales even

Jen:

in uncertain economic times, People still think and I agree that we're heading

Jen:

for some sort of recession or decline.

Jen:

So one of the things that we talked about on previous episodes is

Jen:

that during economic recession and decline, you focus on the top of the.

Jen:

Right.

Jen:

Do you remember that when we, we talked about the report Yes.

Jen:

Of focusing on the top of the funnel, and that's where the product ladder really.

Jen:

Comes in.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

. So for those of you who and why you haven't listened to

Jen:

previous episodes, I don't know, I think you need to get on that.

Jen:

But if you haven't listened to previous episodes, , what we have talked about

Jen:

in the past is there have been all these studies about what you need to focus

Jen:

on during an economic recession, and you need to focus on top of the funnel.

Jen:

You need to have a way to bring people in on a constant basis who are.

Jen:

That will, after a few touch points, come convert as clients and the

Jen:

product ladder can really happen.

Jen:

Help with that.

Jen:

And the reason is you are developing a series A product.

Jen:

Ladder means developing a series of products at different price

Jen:

points so that people can enter in to connect with you and work with

Jen:

you at a budget that fits for them.

Jen:

So you provide different types of experiences.

Jen:

Based on what's going on out there.

Jen:

And if we're getting into a recession, it may mean coming up with products that are

Jen:

less expensive than your premier product.

Jen:

It may mean.

Jen:

changing up some of those v i p days and making them a little bit different.

Shelley:

Mm-hmm.

Shelley:

. Jen: Yeah.

Shelley:

So that's the real reason why you need a product ladder.

Shelley:

You wanna generate interest from a variety of sources and if you're selling

Shelley:

something that is a really high end product, you still need ways for people

Shelley:

before they're ready to take the plunge.

Shelley:

You need something that generates interest at a different.

Shelley:

Yeah, I have worked with people in they, they coach coaches

Shelley:

and they're always about, Oh, you need to start at $3,000 packages.

Shelley:

And I'm like, Not everybody can afford that and not everybody's gonna trust

Shelley:

you enough to spend $3,000 for day one.

Shelley:

They wanna sample some stuff before they jump all the

Jen:

way in.

Jen:

Right.

Jen:

See, and that's the thing.

Jen:

People are like I don't wanna reduce.

Jen:

$3,000 package.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

That's not what we're suggesting here at all.

Jen:

We are saying that you support that $3,000 package with other offerings mm-hmm.

Jen:

so that people can essentially, try before they buy.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

That's really what we're talking about here.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

. So if, if, for example, so if you were to work, for example,

Jen:

one-on-one with a Brenton Bruce.

Jen:

I can never say his last name.

Jen:

Right.

Jen:

I don't even know if I'm saying it right.

Jen:

That's But if you were to work with him Yeah.

Jen:

One on one, this would be like probably high five, low six figures.

Jen:

Right.

Jen:

If you were to work with him for any period of time.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

But.

Jen:

. You can buy books, you can buy organizers, you can buy video

Jen:

series, you can get courses.

Jen:

He

Shelley:

has, He has an app that he An app, Yeah.

Shelley:

That includes coaching.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Jen:

He also has a podcast.

Jen:

He's got of offerings.

Jen:

Tons of offerings.

Jen:

He has free offerings like his podcast that bring people in.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

. So don't be thinking, we're just like, making something up here.

Jen:

This is how business.

Jen:

Done . You build a product ladder because not everybody can afford the

Jen:

big product, and if you're stalling out or if you're not maybe getting the

Jen:

right people at that high price point, it could be that you're not enticing

Jen:

them enough with other things so that they understand what they're actually

Jen:

getting when they go all in with you.

Jen:

How do we start building a product ladder?

Jen:

I

Shelley:

think we talk about the funnel, right?

Shelley:

We, we want attention, look at us and that.

Shelley:

The beginning where people find you because you're just

Shelley:

doing awareness campaigns.

Shelley:

Look at us, we're doing a podcast, we're doing live videos, we're doing a blog.

Shelley:

Check us out.

Shelley:

And that's the free right awareness.

Shelley:

And then you want to find a way to bring them in a little bit closer by offering

Shelley:

Hey, come to my door, Say trick or treat.

Shelley:

I'll give you candy.

Shelley:

In other words, give me your email address and I'll give you a really free

Shelley:

val free valuable, something valuable opt in, like we talked about last week.

Shelley:

Yeah, that's right.

Shelley:

That's the next level.

Shelley:

Then a small offering like a book.

Shelley:

Maybe that could be five, 10, $15.

Shelley:

A mini course could be about that price, or you could, go on up from there.

Shelley:

You could do a membership.

Shelley:

Yeah, a bigger course.

Shelley:

There's many offerings that are available and then you work your

Shelley:

way on up to done for you services and one-on-one coaching, and that's

Shelley:

gonna be your bigger package deal.

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jen:

And I think that when we talk about how you get started building

Jen:

something like that, cuz that's exactly what a product ladder is.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

and exactly how it, it needs to happen in one way or the other.

Jen:

I think it can be really overwhelming when you're like, wait, you're telling

Jen:

me I have to have it , a podcast and an opt-in and this and that and the other.

Jen:

Slow your role.

Jen:

Everybody like just hold on.

Jen:

If you're like overwhelmed or you're not sure where to start

Jen:

here's how you get started.

Jen:

So consider what your high end product is.

Jen:

What's the biggest thing that you offer?

Jen:

We're all just gonna click.

Jen:

We

Shelley:

offer done few services where we'll do your production for you.

Shelley:

If you just show up and you want us to do your live stream that's our highest level,

Jen:

right?

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

And so to use Shelley's example and this is something that, that she has done

Jen:

and they have crafted for a long time.

Jen:

They also use a framework when they are working.

Jen:

With people at the high end, right?

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

. So they have taken that framework and they have broken it out into different

Jen:

offerings at different price points with different levels and depth of

Jen:

information so that people can enter in at different places and make a

Jen:

decision about working together.

Jen:

Or maybe something is so valuable, like the course that Shelley has just

Jen:

put out, that people can take that and run with it until they're ready

Jen:

to hire somebody to do, done for.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

To do, done for you.

Jen:

And then at that point, Shelley is positioned for that.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

. So when you're starting to think about building out that product

Jen:

ladder, what you really wanna do is think about all of the things that

Jen:

support that big offer that you have.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Do you have a framework?

Jen:

Do you have other things that you always bring in that, that are useful to other

Jen:

people as smaller standalone options?

Jen:

Or do you train people on certain aspects that you could break that part off as

Jen:

a course, as something very useful that people can just consume and take in?

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

This is a place where you need to be really.

Jen:

Creative, and there are a lot of people who do this and they, it,

Jen:

there's a little bit of an art to it.

Jen:

You may have to we've talked about this before.

Jen:

Marketing is testing, you wanna test this out.

Jen:

Nothing is set in stone here, so it's just about going in.

Jen:

And thinking about your big offer a little bit differently

Jen:

so that you are supporting it.

Jen:

So people then when they sign up with you, there's no surprises.

Jen:

the people who are like super excited to work with you, they're getting all

Jen:

of the features in one way or another.

Jen:

I've read books by people like it, and if I just went to their blog and read the

Jen:

whole thing, I would get the book right?

Jen:

Yep.

Jen:

This is kinda the same thing.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

, but I can tell you with this podcast is a top of the funnel podcast.

Jen:

We're doing how-tos, we're talking about all of this stuff.

Jen:

Somebody comes and works with me.

Jen:

It's a different experience, but this is your chance to come.

Jen:

Watch this, listen to this, and you're like, Do I like Jen?

Jen:

Do I like Shelley?

Jen:

Could I work with them again?

Jen:

, you're getting a taste of what we are like in terms of our personalities,

Jen:

what we are like in terms of working together, our depths of knowledge,

Jen:

what we can do to help you.

Jen:

This is our top of the funnel.

Jen:

This is our free, our freebie, and then it just progresses from there

Jen:

in terms of different offerings.

Jen:

like my next one, my next offering is you subscribe to my email list, you

Jen:

get a free marketing self-assessment.

Jen:

That's the next thing, in the product funnel.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

After that I have epiphany courses.

Jen:

You can take courses from me.

Jen:

These are standalone courses.

Jen:

You don't have to hire me.

Jen:

It's not really that's not even what it was built for.

Jen:

And then after that, we start getting into things like coaching programs.

Jen:

So it's everybody's product ladder is a little bit d.

Jen:

But it does come down to thinking through what it is you're offering

Jen:

to people and what are some of the extras that you can offer.

Shelley:

Yeah and things might occur to you as you build them.

Shelley:

Like I decided, oh, I wanna put out two infographics, the content

Shelley:

consistency framework and schedule.

Shelley:

And then I got to looking at them and I thought, I bet there's a lot

Shelley:

of people who don't understand what to do with these when they get them.

Shelley:

So I did a an e, I did an episode of my show on that, then I cut it into nine

Shelley:

pieces and made a course out of it.

Shelley:

So now you can get it for free.

Shelley:

Look at my YouTube channel, and you can go to download the the framework and

Shelley:

schedule for free with your email address.

Shelley:

But you can also get the course which is currently free if you use the coupon code

Shelley:

agk Saver, and you can get the course.

Shelley:

And then you've got all of this content that's going to

Shelley:

walk you through how to do so.

Shelley:

And then you may go, You know what?

Shelley:

I got more money than time.

Shelley:

Let me just pay Shelley to do it for me.

Shelley:

And that's how it works sometimes.

Shelley:

And that's

Jen:

how it works.

Jen:

Or sometimes people do it and they're like, Wow, I really wanna do this.

Jen:

And it's over my head.

Jen:

And so they decide to hire someone.

Jen:

And that's okay too.

Jen:

That's part of it too.

Jen:

We're not advocating for providing something that isn't holistic.

Jen:

What Shelley and I offer is holistic.

Jen:

It stands alone.

Jen:

We know because some of the stuff we do is a little bit technical.

Jen:

Sometimes people still decide that they wanna hire somebody.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

So you wanna do that with your small offers as well.

Jen:

Like your smaller offers are really your chance to build

Jen:

a bridge to something bigger.

Jen:

Unless you're doing like an epiphany courses where people can consume that

Jen:

and they don't have to hire somebody.

Jen:

But you can always, whatever you offer, you wanna make sure that it's good.

Jen:

That people will still be.

Jen:

Interested

Jen:

. Shelley: Yeah.

Jen:

And you want it to be in alignment.

Jen:

In alignment with everything else that you offer so that it's not some weird one off.

Jen:

Like, why would I buy a hat from you?

Jen:

That's just weird.

Jen:

That doesn't even fit, that's right.

Jen:

Here's a Women Conquer business hat.

Jen:

What?

Jen:

What ? Why do I need that?

Jen:

? I.

Jen:

Stickers maybe, but

Jen:

So this was the first product ladder, which is like breaking.

Jen:

I really wanted hats and shirts and stickers, but that's okay.

Jen:

The first one is breaking your services into smaller chunks.

Jen:

That's the first ones we've talked through.

Jen:

What that kind of product ladder would look like, right?

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

. The other one is where you offer products and services in bundles or packages.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

. So let's say you have, two or three offerings that are maybe not as

Jen:

expensive, but you put them all together and then you have something

Jen:

more deluxe or something bigger.

Jen:

So you could have, say you have two courses, but you bundle them

Jen:

together and you can sell them all as.

Jen:

Big

Shelley:

package, right?

Shelley:

And then you throw in your book or for workbook or other resources that you've

Shelley:

put out separately as lead magnets or as low cost entry level products.

Shelley:

You can put all that together, as you say, maybe resources, books,

Shelley:

a course Yeah a hat and a shirt.

Jen:

Something I've thought about.

Jen:

So I offer basically monthly marketing coaching, but I actually

Jen:

had somebody ask me for it.

Jen:

It's something I did in the way back times that I haven't done, but

Jen:

I had somebody who's I would just like to sit with you for a day.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

, I feel like I just sat with you for a day.

Jen:

I could learn so much.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

, why don't I have a VIP day?

Jen:

I've never actually done that before.

Jen:

, when I was doing like web development, sometimes I would travel to

Jen:

people's locations and we would work together to get something out.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

. But I've never had somebody who's I just wanna ask you

Jen:

questions all day about marketing.

Jen:

So I was like maybe I should do that.

Jen:

So the other way to go is maybe you have something that you could

Jen:

then make bigger and more deluxe.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jen:

And that's the other direction that you can go is if.

Jen:

Have a few things.

Jen:

Sometimes I'll bundle together done for you so that it's not a one-off package.

Jen:

It's like I bundle a bunch of hours together or I bundle a

Jen:

bunch of products together.

Jen:

There's so many different ways that you can do this.

Jen:

The key though is as business owners, and especially in an uncertain

Jen:

economy, you wanna have a lot of different things that you're offer.

Jen:

Because that diversity of products will bring people in that are

Jen:

interested in different things.

Jen:

Just don't overwhelm yourself with so many things.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

You don't wanna do that either.

Jen:

You wanna just have some discreet things that bring people along to different

Jen:

levels so that you can make more money in the long run because you're offering

Jen:

a few things, but at different price points and different entry points.

Shelley:

That's right.

Shelley:

And if they flow together, all the better, right?

Shelley:

Like people come in, they see your lead magnet, and you're like,

Shelley:

Oh, I like this, but I want a little more information about it.

Shelley:

Get the book or the course or bundle 'em together.

Shelley:

And then you have the package, and you put like a oh, and it's discounted.

Shelley:

So it makes it more attractive.

Shelley:

And then, They get all of that.

Shelley:

They get through all of that and they're like, I'm ready to go, but I

Shelley:

need just a little bit of coaching.

Shelley:

Okay.

Shelley:

Well maybe I should add on an hour of coaching to, the package you just

Shelley:

play with it and you see what people ask for what they need more of.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

What else?

Jen:

Anything else?

Jen:

No, I think.

Jen:

I think we've hit it pretty hard.

Jen:

We climb that ladder, we climb

Shelley:

that ladder,

Shelley:

we give you some more treats.

Shelley:

Some more treats.

Shelley:

Yay, . So

Jen:

if you're wondering how to create, publish, and distribute

Jen:

content consistently, Shelley made a whole course about that.

Jen:

If you go to course dot agk media, dot studio with coupon code.

Jen:

Agk Saver, that's Agk Saver.

Jen:

All caps through November 18th.

Jen:

I dunno why I always wanna say October 18th.

Jen:

That was in the past . So if through November 18th you can

Jen:

get into that course for free.

Jen:

So I really encourage you to give that a try.

Jen:

It will help you create content like a champ

Shelley:

consistently consist.

Shelley:

That's the important part.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

And also if you are really trying to figure out your marketing and what

Shelley:

is marketing and how much am I, what I'm doing already is marketing and

Shelley:

how much more should I be doing?

Shelley:

Go to Jens self-assessment for marketing and that's free, and you can go to send

Shelley:

fox.com/wcb for that free self assessment.

Shelley:

Right.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Jen:

All right.

Jen:

Julio Uhoh,

Shelley:

tweak time . Jen's got some info.

Shelley:

Wait, did we have a any, Oh, Toby wanted a question here.

Shelley:

How is YouTube's podcasting initiative doing?

Shelley:

they're, they just keep trying little things.

Shelley:

They're doing what we're doing, right?

Shelley:

YouTube is trying different things.

Shelley:

What is this gonna work?

Shelley:

Should we put money into it?

Shelley:

Should we hire somebody to lead that up?

Shelley:

They're doing the same thing that we're doing.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

I don't know.

Jen:

I haven't heard a lot about it.

Jen:

I, it's interesting.

Jen:

In she podcast, they had a, they did a poll and everybody said

Jen:

that they still prefer audio.

Jen:

instead of watching people.

Jen:

So it's really interesting.

Jen:

Podcast listeners are a funny bunch, so Who knows how that's gonna work?

Jen:

I haven't heard anything.

Jen:

Toby, have you heard anything

Jen:

If so, leave us a comment and let us know.

Jen:

, if anybody else who's watching or listening has heard anything about

Jen:

the YouTube initiatives around podcasting, I'd love to hear it

Jen:

too cuz I honestly haven't heard.

Shelley:

Yeah, or if you have any questions about what we could

Shelley:

cover today with Product Ladder, put those in the comments as.

Shelley:

Oh, for sure.

Shelley:

Now we're gonna tweak

Shelley:

What do you got for Tweak?

Shelley:

Tweak of the week there, Jen.

Jen:

So this has been sitting in our show flow for a while.

Jen:

We just were looking for a good time to talk about it.

Jen:

I think this is a great times because, yeah.

Jen:

. As you're doing your product ladder, you're going to have

Jen:

some sort of landing page.

Jen:

So a landing page is a place where people buy your products, they sign up for

Jen:

things, all different kinds of things.

Jen:

I think most of you know what a landing page is, but you may have questions

Jen:

about how to create a great landing page.

Jen:

This is available on App Sumo.

Jen:

I bought it, Oh gosh.

Jen:

I think a couple of months.

Jen:

This isn't like a typical app, Sumo app.

Jen:

It is an entire guide and you can read it on Notion there's an ebook

Jen:

for it, like an audiobook, like it has all, It's very interactive and

Jen:

you can get all of the details about how to make your landing pages better.

Jen:

This was put together by somebody named Rob.

Jen:

Hope he has a.

Jen:

And that's at rob hope.com or if you wanna buy this landing page hot tips sheet with

Jen:

all these different ideas in it, it walks you through a lot of what it's gonna

Jen:

take to get your landing page together and to help execute that in a way.

Jen:

That will draw in people and hopefully convert more people to

Jen:

buy your products and services.

Jen:

So I recommend this.

Jen:

I think that it's $29 on App Sumo.

Jen:

I think that it is a great deal at that price . I highly recommend it

Jen:

if you struggle with writing copy, if you have questions about what, what

Jen:

constitutes, I guess a good landing page that will bring people in.

Jen:

This is a really good guide and like I said, it's not.

Jen:

It's not only like a PDF guide, it's got a lot of different audio clips

Jen:

and I think maybe some videos that, that really show you some different

Jen:

ways that you can improve your landing pages and make them better.

Jen:

Very cool.

Jen:

Yeah.

Shelley:

So that's on App Sumo.

Shelley:

Go grab that On App Sumo only $29.

Shelley:

And you know the thing about App Sumo that's awesome is they give

Shelley:

you two months to figure out if the product is gonna work for you.

Shelley:

That you can get your money back or you can get credits and get something

Shelley:

else if it didn't work for you.

Shelley:

So awesome place to get things.

Shelley:

That's right.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

We're gonna have a show about up Sumo, aren't we?

Jen:

We are.

Jen:

We just haven't had it yet.

Jen:

Yeah, we're

Shelley:

gonna get.

Shelley:

Happening.

Shelley:

Are you ready?

Shelley:

Wow.

Shelley:

We are.

Shelley:

We're really screaming today.

Shelley:

We are

Jen:

screaming today.

Jen:

It's a quickie.

Jen:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Let's have some inspiration from Epi Titus.

Shelley:

What then makes a person free from hindrance and self-determining for

Shelley:

wealth doesn't, neither does high office, state or kingdom, rather,

Shelley:

something else must be found.

Shelley:

In the case of living it is the knowledge of how to live.

Shelley:

Hm, Pretty interesting.

Shelley:

You have two essential tasks in life.

Shelley:

To be a good person and to pursue the occupation that you love.

Shelley:

Everything else is a waste of energy and a squandering of your potential.

Shelley:

Isn't that interesting?

Shelley:

How does one do that?

Shelley:

The philosophy we see from the stoics makes it simple enough say

Shelley:

no to distractions, to destructive emotions, and to outside.

Shelley:

You be you.

Jen:

That's good.

Jen:

That's so easy to do those things.

Jen:

. Shelley: Good talk . So let's make

Jen:

on this planet and do the right thing when the situation calls

Jen:

for it and treat other people the way you would hope to be treated.

Jen:

Understand that every small choice and tiny matter is an opportunity

Jen:

to practice these larger princip.

Jen:

When you look at why do you do the things that you do, you should be able

Jen:

to see your principles underneath them.

Jen:

Why do I speak to an older generation about how to set up an in-home studio

Jen:

and get their message out into the world because, I find that it's really

Jen:

important for the older generation to have access to the larger conversation.

Jen:

I want to help them spread their wisdom, a message of hope and a

Jen:

legacy of love throughout the world to hopefully drown out some of this

Jen:

crap that's going on in the world is bad, bad news, bad vibe stuff.

Jen:

Let's get, give some voice and platform to the people who have a positive message

Jen:

to share, and that's why I do what I do.

Jen:

What about.

Jen:

I was so busy listening to you.

Jen:

I wasn't thinking about how to answer that question myself.

Jen:

, Shelley: do you see your

Jen:

things that you do every day?

Jen:

I, I really.

Jen:

Believe that if we give smaller businesses the tools they need to succeed, that

Jen:

it makes the world a better place.

Jen:

I think there are too many people who are overlooked and put down

Jen:

and not given a shot, and they can't afford huge consulting firms.

Jen:

And there are a lot of, There are a lot of folks out there that need help and.

Jen:

I am that person who's giving you voice and who's giving

Jen:

you an opportunity to shine.

Jen:

And I believe I'm the embodiment of that every single day.

Jen:

And I do everything I can to support my local community and the people

Jen:

who find me out in the world.

Jen:

And,

Shelley:

yeah.

Shelley:

Yeah, I think Jen and I have a very similar mission, and that's why

Shelley:

this works so well when we team up.

Shelley:

Yeah, Yeah.

Shelley:

. So Jed is gonna be going to

Jen:

Hawaii.

Jen:

I'm very excited

Shelley:

about that.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

For Halloween, for two weeks for vacation, and we're gonna miss her.

Shelley:

But we wish her safe travels and we look forward to all the insightful

Shelley:

things she's gonna have to bring back with her because she's gonna have

Shelley:

time to rest and let her mind recer.

Shelley:

Yeah, I need

Jen:

some rest.

Jen:

I will admit that

Shelley:

and I'm gonna be here working and getting my course out

Shelley:

and yeah, just doing all the things.

Jen:

Doing all the things.

Jen:

Good stuff.

Jen:

So thank you so much, much for being here.

Jen:

And we, even though I will be on an island somewhere, We will be here next

Jen:

week and the week after that we have already recorded it, so please tune

Jen:

in and we will continue to help you and guide you through your marketing.

Jen:

Nice.

Shelley:

Thank you for joining the Women Conquer Business Podcast, hosted

Shelley:

by Shelley Carney and Jen McFarland.

Shelley:

Please subscribe and leave a comment or question regarding your most challenging

Shelley:

content creation or business problem.

Shelley:

Then share this podcast with family and friends.

Shelley:

So they can find the support they need to expand their brand and

Shelley:

share their message with the world.

Shelley:

Check the show notes for links to valuable resources and come back again next week.