Jen: 00:00:06

Hello and welcome to the Women Conquer Business Show.

Jen: 00:00:08

I'm Jen McFarland, joined by Shelley Carney.

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We're your go-to small business marketing show covering breaking marketing news

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that affects you cool apps we found, and how to deep dive into a marketing topic

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with a side of motivation and inspir.

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We'll also talk a little about our own entrepreneurial journeys as well.

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Are you ready?

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Let's get started.

Shelley: 00:00:36

called Air Guitar.

Jen: 00:00:39

Welcome to Women Conquer Business.

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I'm Jen McFarland, joined by Shelley Carney, who is doing air guitar

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because this new intro, we just can't get over ourselves and we love it.

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. Maybe we should, but we haven't . So this week we are talking about something

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for everyone, the product ladder.

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So you might be thinking, what is a product ladder?

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Well, we're gonna talk about that, but why do you need a product ladder?

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How can you attract leads and increase sales even in uncertain economic?

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The product ladder, it means you can't just go out of the gate necessarily

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offering that $50,000 a year program.

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You need to help nurture people up into your higher end programs.

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A product ladder is a range of products varying in price and features.

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Product ladders make it easier for potential customers to get a sampling

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of your work or jump in all the.

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, which is probably what most of us want, and also takes time.

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People need to get to know us a little bit.

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You can create a product ladder by breaking services into smaller

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chunks or offering products together in bundles or packages.

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How do you get started building a product ladder?

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Oh, I think that's why everybody's here, right?

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Woohoo,

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. Shelley: How's it going, Shelley?

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It's going good.

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So I've had some visitors this week.

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My husband's brother and his wife have been here cooking up a storm.

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We had some traditional foods from Portugal.

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They it's something that is actually, it's salt.

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Dried cod that you reconstitute and then you put cream in it and potatoes

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and onions and all this stuff.

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And it takes all day to cook, but it's delicious.

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And it's called Bcla Ya uh, nata, Something like that.

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That's cool.

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Cod with cream.

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It was yummy.

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So we've been having a good time with them.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And Toby and I are getting, Oh, and I just did a show yesterday about my

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LinkedIn newsletter and how I put it together, and I think that was a really

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good show and it was only 30 minutes.

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So if you haven't seen it, go check it out on my YouTube channel.

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Yeah, that in the show notes.

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Yeah.

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And Halloween and Dia Delos, weirdos are coming.

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And Toby and I will be spending some time this weekend and next

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weekend getting some footage.

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Different events going on for celebration, celebrating that.

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Yeah, so Dia

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de los Mors is Day of the Dead.

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John and I have gone to several productions here.

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We have a theater here called the Milagro Theater.

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They present different cultural experiences in both Spanish and English.

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Like sometimes they put I, John knows Spanish much more than I do, but they'll

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put translations above, or sometimes it's.

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English , and they're helping us understand culturally what's going on.

Jen: 00:03:23

Do you wanna talk a little bit about the celebrations that go on in New Mexico?

Shelley: 00:03:27

Sure.

Shelley: 00:03:28

Look at this.

Shelley: 00:03:28

Candy Wee

Shelley: 00:03:29

So D de los Meos, they often have a marigold parade.

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They have workshops.

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I know that.

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Toby's young, Toby's oldest daughter, Sean is very involved.

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She does face painting of the sugar skulls.

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She talks to people about the traditions and they're even having a

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workshop on how to set up and alter For the Dio de Los Deo de Los Matos.

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If you wanna know more about it, I suggest you watch the movie Coco.

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It's a Disney movie.

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It's animated, it's got music and it's fun, but it teaches a whole lot about it.

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So really great movie to watch this time of year.

Shelley: 00:04:07

So That's so cool.

Jen: 00:04:08

Yeah.

Jen: 00:04:08

That's so cool.

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So I'm over here in like total like celebration mode.

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Maybe we should bring the pumpkin back out.

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I don't know.

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Really Celebrating over again.

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Yay.

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Alan Brooks today, I, she officially came on board the Women Conquer business team.

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Elan Brooks started as an executive assistant yesterday.

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We're onboarding, so it's exciting to have somebody joining the team

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and I'm very excited about that.

Shelley: 00:04:40

She going

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crazy over here.

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Magic and the, and the lots of, one of the, That growers, it is going

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to be Halloween in about four days.

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Yeah,

Shelley: 00:04:50

yeah.

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This is the weekend.

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Which

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is also when I say Aloha

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. Shelley: Oh, aloha.

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Very cool.

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Cause that's when I head off to Hawaii and I'm very excited.

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What day?

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Monday.

Shelley: 00:05:03

Yeah, on Halloween.

Shelley: 00:05:04

On Halloween, fun.

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See if your flight

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attendants are dressed up.

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So yes, I'm very excited about that.

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And for those of you who have been watching and listening to the show

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for a while, we have episodes for you.

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We work on that.

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Yeah.

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We have pre-recorded episodes so we wouldn't

Shelley: 00:05:20

forget you our favorite people in the world, viewers.

Jen: 00:05:24

That's right.

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So we have, we recorded two episodes.

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I think they're pretty good actually.

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As I was going through and listening to them, editing everything, I was like

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we've got some good little gems in there.

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And Eric, I think we always do, We pretty, we always do.

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And we actually have clips.

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So maybe we'll be able to tease a few out for you.

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That's right.

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Leading up to the episodes, which we've never done before.

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Cause we don't usually pre-record.

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That's right.

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So this is very exciting.

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One of those episodes.

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So what did we talk, what did we talk about in those two episodes?

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Do you remember?

Shelley: 00:05:53

One was about webinar

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funnels and, yeah, webinar funnel, how to automate a webinar funnel.

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The other one,

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, Shelley: can't think of

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The other one was related to the opt-in episode.

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Yeah,

Shelley: 00:06:05

it was.

Jen: 00:06:07

Was it like, was it that the emails you need to

Shelley: 00:06:10

automate?

Shelley: 00:06:11

Yeah, it was emails.

Shelley: 00:06:12

That's right.

Jen: 00:06:13

Yeah, that's about correct.

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So we have all kinds of things that are tied together with all the other

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things we've been talking about.

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So as we talk about the product ladder today, keep that in mind

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because we're going to follow up with things that can help support

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and promote things on your product ladder over the next couple of weeks.

Jen: 00:06:32

Yep.

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Even though.

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Technically we'll not be present.

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We have thought this through and we have things for you to help you take

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what the information we're going to share today and we've shared in previous

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episodes, and take that to the next place.

Jen: 00:06:47

Okay.

Jen: 00:06:47

But before we get started, do we have some breaking news, Shelley?

Shelley: 00:06:52

So today it was just there was a video put out by Rob from Vid

Shelley: 00:06:58

IQ and he's talking about why is YouTube allowing this to happen.

Shelley: 00:07:02

YouTube shorts allows creators to sample clip videos from other

Shelley: 00:07:06

creators, but do they know this?

Shelley: 00:07:08

And what impact could that have on monetization?

Shelley: 00:07:11

What's happening is YouTube shorts.

Shelley: 00:07:15

Well, YouTube wanted to have a product just like TikTok, because TikTok is

Shelley: 00:07:18

taking over the world, so YouTube wanted to get on the train, so they came

Shelley: 00:07:23

out with YouTube shorts, and they've been adjusting it for the past year.

Shelley: 00:07:26

Now they've made it so that you can grab audio off of other people's

Shelley: 00:07:30

shorts and use that to create your own video, just like they do on

Shelley: 00:07:35

TikTok, because that works so well.

Shelley: 00:07:37

In TikTok, they thought, Well, let's do it here.

Shelley: 00:07:39

They're also.

Shelley: 00:07:40

Some music that you can use that is YouTube approved for shorts

Shelley: 00:07:45

and you can put the things together and put out a video.

Shelley: 00:07:47

Okay.

Shelley: 00:07:48

Now the problem, as Rob explained it, and it makes sense to me, is

Shelley: 00:07:51

there are creators out there who are putting out shorts who may be,

Shelley: 00:07:55

they're sponsored by other Yeah.

Shelley: 00:07:57

Companies, and they put out this product specifically.

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In cooperation with their sponsor.

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And now people are taking their audio, putting it with something else and sending

Shelley: 00:08:08

it out, and they're getting thousands of views, which the sponsors are missing

Shelley: 00:08:12

out on because they're sponsoring the original artist and now that they're

Shelley: 00:08:17

going to start monetizing shorts, They're asking who's going to get the money?

Shelley: 00:08:22

The original person who did the original audio, or the person who

Shelley: 00:08:27

got all views by mashing things together how is that going to work?

Shelley: 00:08:31

So when money gets involved, people get a little upset.

Shelley: 00:08:35

, Jen: right.

Shelley: 00:08:36

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:08:36

And this is, yeah, Toby's absolutely right here.

Shelley: 00:08:39

YouTube is trying to compete with TikTok, which doesn't account

Shelley: 00:08:41

fort's major markets in Asia.

Shelley: 00:08:44

This question is something that has gone on for as long as art has been around.

Shelley: 00:08:49

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:08:50

Really.

Shelley: 00:08:50

Should Andy Warhol get all the funding or the original picture that.

Shelley: 00:08:56

It was taken by another photographer and he screenshot, mm-hmm.

Shelley: 00:08:58

created all the screen printing and everything.

Shelley: 00:09:00

Stealing like an artist has been around forever.

Shelley: 00:09:03

There's even a book, if you ever are feeling short on ideas, that's

Shelley: 00:09:07

called steal like an Artist, and it goes into that art of doing it.

Shelley: 00:09:10

In this case, we are talking about potentially thousands of dollars

Shelley: 00:09:14

being lost out by creators in a creator economy that is, people

Shelley: 00:09:18

are just trying to get by sometimes

Shelley: 00:09:20

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:09:20

Really challenging and these sponsorships can be a big deal in a lot of money.

Shelley: 00:09:24

Mm-hmm.

Shelley: 00:09:24

. So it's interesting.

Shelley: 00:09:25

We'll have to keep an eye on it and see what happens.

Shelley: 00:09:27

I, yeah.

Shelley: 00:09:28

And you can opt out with your longer videos, but not with your shorts.

Shelley: 00:09:33

You can't opt out of people sampling.

Shelley: 00:09:36

Right, and pretty soon they're gonna be able to sample your video as well.

Shelley: 00:09:39

So they'll be able to take video from several different creators, mash it

Shelley: 00:09:42

together, put out a video, something else short, and then maybe they get

Shelley: 00:09:46

bunches of views and the other people, maybe they'll benefit from it because

Shelley: 00:09:51

people will see them, but probably not.

Shelley: 00:09:54

Who knows?

Jen: 00:09:55

Yes, We better filed this under Life just

Shelley: 00:09:57

isn't fair, . Just be aware that this is out there and if you're

Shelley: 00:10:02

gonna make YouTube shorts, you need to know that this is what's gone.

Jen: 00:10:05

Absolutely.

Jen: 00:10:06

Yeah.

Jen: 00:10:06

And because we just can't keep our hands off of TikTok and YouTube today, , we have

Jen: 00:10:12

another story, which is that TikTok in our ever going ongoing saga of what is going

Jen: 00:10:17

on among people who are younger than us.

Jen: 00:10:21

has replaced Netflix as most popular app for those under 35.

Jen: 00:10:26

So last night I presented to Ty Oregon's Excel Bootcamp.

Jen: 00:10:30

It's a startup bootcamp that people have, and it was the first time I had to.

Jen: 00:10:34

To that group that.

Jen: 00:10:35

, Facebook is pretty much over . It's in an ultimate decline, and

Jen: 00:10:38

we just don't know how long.

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And a lot of it is because as we've reported for several

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weeks, TikTok is usurping it.

Jen: 00:10:44

The decline of Facebook is real.

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We know that people under 35 are searching using Reddit and Tick and TikTok.

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Not even Google as much.

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So now we should not be surprised to see that TikTok has replaced Netflix as

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the second most popular app for those under 35 to which Shelley said, what?

Jen: 00:11:04

What's number one?

Jen: 00:11:07

. And it was interesting.

Jen: 00:11:08

What is number one, Shelley?

Jen: 00:11:10

Is

Shelley: 00:11:10

it YouTube?

Shelley: 00:11:11

It's YouTube.

Shelley: 00:11:12

It's YouTube.

Shelley: 00:11:13

Because YouTube is, it's got everything right?

Shelley: 00:11:17

You can watch it all the way from babies on up to as old

Shelley: 00:11:21

as people can possibly get.

Shelley: 00:11:23

There's something on there that can be of interest to them.

Shelley: 00:11:27

So

Jen: 00:11:27

yeah, there's something for everyone on YouTube.

Jen: 00:11:30

So we're covering this because it's interesting.

Jen: 00:11:34

We're looking more at what is really happening with TikTok, and

Jen: 00:11:38

we're also looking to the reactions that these other companies have.

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It looks like what YouTube is trying to do is maintain.

Jen: 00:11:44

Dominance , they wanna stay, number one.

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They don't wanna remain relevant.

Jen: 00:11:48

They're making it so that creators can, can steal from each other and,

Jen: 00:11:52

and make mashups just like you can on TikTok, honestly, I don't see shorts

Jen: 00:11:57

as ever becoming as popular as Yeah.

Jen: 00:11:59

TikTok.

Jen: 00:12:00

Yeah.

Jen: 00:12:01

But it does keep people on the platform.

Jen: 00:12:03

Yeah.

Jen: 00:12:03

It, it is good for that.

Jen: 00:12:05

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:12:05

and I think I'll post some of our little shorts.

Jen: 00:12:08

We have somebody named Eric who's helping us clip together videos.

Jen: 00:12:12

I think we're gonna start putting those short.

Jen: 00:12:13

At least I will.

Jen: 00:12:14

I'll put them up as YouTube shorts to tease the podcast.

Jen: 00:12:16

Cause they're kind of.

Jen: 00:12:17

Yeah.

Jen: 00:12:18

So that's what's going on in the news as usual.

Jen: 00:12:20

TikTok is dominating.

Jen: 00:12:21

We'll have to, when I get back from vacation we'll steer clear of TikTok

Shelley: 00:12:25

a little bit.

Shelley: 00:12:26

Sure.

Shelley: 00:12:26

We'll, if it's news is the news, what are you gonna do?

Shelley: 00:12:29

That's

Jen: 00:12:30

true's true.

Jen: 00:12:33

Are you ready?

Jen: 00:12:36

? Shelley: Power up.

Jen: 00:12:37

Let's

Jen: 00:12:37

power up.

Jen: 00:12:38

It's training.

Jen: 00:12:39

Okay.

Jen: 00:12:39

We're gonna talk about a product.

Jen: 00:12:42

The question of the training is how can you track leads and increase sales even

Jen: 00:12:46

in uncertain economic times, People still think and I agree that we're heading

Jen: 00:12:51

for some sort of recession or decline.

Jen: 00:12:55

So one of the things that we talked about on previous episodes is

Jen: 00:12:59

that during economic recession and decline, you focus on the top of the.

Jen: 00:13:04

Right.

Jen: 00:13:05

Do you remember that when we, we talked about the report Yes.

Jen: 00:13:07

Of focusing on the top of the funnel, and that's where the product ladder really.

Jen: 00:13:13

Comes in.

Jen: 00:13:14

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:13:14

. So for those of you who and why you haven't listened to

Jen: 00:13:18

previous episodes, I don't know, I think you need to get on that.

Jen: 00:13:20

But if you haven't listened to previous episodes, , what we have talked about

Jen: 00:13:23

in the past is there have been all these studies about what you need to focus

Jen: 00:13:27

on during an economic recession, and you need to focus on top of the funnel.

Jen: 00:13:32

You need to have a way to bring people in on a constant basis who are.

Jen: 00:13:37

That will, after a few touch points, come convert as clients and the

Jen: 00:13:43

product ladder can really happen.

Jen: 00:13:44

Help with that.

Jen: 00:13:46

And the reason is you are developing a series A product.

Jen: 00:13:49

Ladder means developing a series of products at different price

Jen: 00:13:53

points so that people can enter in to connect with you and work with

Jen: 00:13:57

you at a budget that fits for them.

Jen: 00:14:03

So you provide different types of experiences.

Jen: 00:14:06

Based on what's going on out there.

Jen: 00:14:09

And if we're getting into a recession, it may mean coming up with products that are

Jen: 00:14:15

less expensive than your premier product.

Jen: 00:14:17

It may mean.

Jen: 00:14:18

changing up some of those v i p days and making them a little bit different.

Shelley: 00:14:23

Mm-hmm.

Shelley: 00:14:24

. Jen: Yeah.

Shelley: 00:14:24

So that's the real reason why you need a product ladder.

Shelley: 00:14:27

You wanna generate interest from a variety of sources and if you're selling

Shelley: 00:14:30

something that is a really high end product, you still need ways for people

Shelley: 00:14:34

before they're ready to take the plunge.

Shelley: 00:14:37

You need something that generates interest at a different.

Shelley: 00:14:41

Yeah, I have worked with people in they, they coach coaches

Shelley: 00:14:47

and they're always about, Oh, you need to start at $3,000 packages.

Shelley: 00:14:52

And I'm like, Not everybody can afford that and not everybody's gonna trust

Shelley: 00:14:56

you enough to spend $3,000 for day one.

Shelley: 00:15:00

They wanna sample some stuff before they jump all the

Jen: 00:15:03

way in.

Jen: 00:15:04

Right.

Jen: 00:15:05

See, and that's the thing.

Jen: 00:15:06

People are like I don't wanna reduce.

Jen: 00:15:08

$3,000 package.

Jen: 00:15:10

Yeah.

Jen: 00:15:10

That's not what we're suggesting here at all.

Jen: 00:15:13

We are saying that you support that $3,000 package with other offerings mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:15:19

so that people can essentially, try before they buy.

Jen: 00:15:23

Yeah.

Jen: 00:15:23

That's really what we're talking about here.

Jen: 00:15:24

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:15:25

. So if, if, for example, so if you were to work, for example,

Jen: 00:15:29

one-on-one with a Brenton Bruce.

Jen: 00:15:33

I can never say his last name.

Jen: 00:15:34

Right.

Jen: 00:15:34

I don't even know if I'm saying it right.

Jen: 00:15:35

That's But if you were to work with him Yeah.

Jen: 00:15:37

One on one, this would be like probably high five, low six figures.

Jen: 00:15:43

Right.

Jen: 00:15:44

If you were to work with him for any period of time.

Jen: 00:15:46

Yeah.

Jen: 00:15:47

But.

Jen: 00:15:48

. You can buy books, you can buy organizers, you can buy video

Jen: 00:15:53

series, you can get courses.

Jen: 00:15:55

He

Shelley: 00:15:55

has, He has an app that he An app, Yeah.

Shelley: 00:15:58

That includes coaching.

Shelley: 00:15:59

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:16:00

Yeah.

Jen: 00:16:00

He also has a podcast.

Jen: 00:16:01

He's got of offerings.

Jen: 00:16:02

Tons of offerings.

Jen: 00:16:03

He has free offerings like his podcast that bring people in.

Jen: 00:16:06

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:16:07

. So don't be thinking, we're just like, making something up here.

Jen: 00:16:10

This is how business.

Jen: 00:16:11

Done . You build a product ladder because not everybody can afford the

Jen: 00:16:16

big product, and if you're stalling out or if you're not maybe getting the

Jen: 00:16:21

right people at that high price point, it could be that you're not enticing

Jen: 00:16:26

them enough with other things so that they understand what they're actually

Jen: 00:16:29

getting when they go all in with you.

Jen: 00:16:32

How do we start building a product ladder?

Jen: 00:16:35

I

Shelley: 00:16:35

think we talk about the funnel, right?

Shelley: 00:16:38

We, we want attention, look at us and that.

Shelley: 00:16:42

The beginning where people find you because you're just

Shelley: 00:16:45

doing awareness campaigns.

Shelley: 00:16:47

Look at us, we're doing a podcast, we're doing live videos, we're doing a blog.

Shelley: 00:16:52

Check us out.

Shelley: 00:16:53

And that's the free right awareness.

Shelley: 00:16:55

And then you want to find a way to bring them in a little bit closer by offering

Shelley: 00:17:01

Hey, come to my door, Say trick or treat.

Shelley: 00:17:03

I'll give you candy.

Shelley: 00:17:05

In other words, give me your email address and I'll give you a really free

Shelley: 00:17:09

val free valuable, something valuable opt in, like we talked about last week.

Shelley: 00:17:15

Yeah, that's right.

Shelley: 00:17:16

That's the next level.

Shelley: 00:17:17

Then a small offering like a book.

Shelley: 00:17:21

Maybe that could be five, 10, $15.

Shelley: 00:17:24

A mini course could be about that price, or you could, go on up from there.

Shelley: 00:17:28

You could do a membership.

Shelley: 00:17:30

Yeah, a bigger course.

Shelley: 00:17:32

There's many offerings that are available and then you work your

Shelley: 00:17:35

way on up to done for you services and one-on-one coaching, and that's

Shelley: 00:17:39

gonna be your bigger package deal.

Jen: 00:17:42

Absolutely.

Jen: 00:17:43

And I think that when we talk about how you get started building

Jen: 00:17:47

something like that, cuz that's exactly what a product ladder is.

Jen: 00:17:51

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:17:52

and exactly how it, it needs to happen in one way or the other.

Jen: 00:17:55

I think it can be really overwhelming when you're like, wait, you're telling

Jen: 00:17:58

me I have to have it , a podcast and an opt-in and this and that and the other.

Jen: 00:18:04

Slow your role.

Jen: 00:18:05

Everybody like just hold on.

Jen: 00:18:09

If you're like overwhelmed or you're not sure where to start

Jen: 00:18:11

here's how you get started.

Jen: 00:18:12

So consider what your high end product is.

Jen: 00:18:17

What's the biggest thing that you offer?

Jen: 00:18:22

We're all just gonna click.

Jen: 00:18:23

We

Shelley: 00:18:23

offer done few services where we'll do your production for you.

Shelley: 00:18:27

If you just show up and you want us to do your live stream that's our highest level,

Jen: 00:18:31

right?

Jen: 00:18:32

Yeah.

Jen: 00:18:32

And so to use Shelley's example and this is something that, that she has done

Jen: 00:18:36

and they have crafted for a long time.

Jen: 00:18:38

They also use a framework when they are working.

Jen: 00:18:41

With people at the high end, right?

Jen: 00:18:43

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:18:44

. So they have taken that framework and they have broken it out into different

Jen: 00:18:48

offerings at different price points with different levels and depth of

Jen: 00:18:52

information so that people can enter in at different places and make a

Jen: 00:18:57

decision about working together.

Jen: 00:18:59

Or maybe something is so valuable, like the course that Shelley has just

Jen: 00:19:03

put out, that people can take that and run with it until they're ready

Jen: 00:19:07

to hire somebody to do, done for.

Jen: 00:19:10

Yeah.

Jen: 00:19:10

To do, done for you.

Jen: 00:19:11

And then at that point, Shelley is positioned for that.

Jen: 00:19:14

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:19:14

. So when you're starting to think about building out that product

Jen: 00:19:17

ladder, what you really wanna do is think about all of the things that

Jen: 00:19:21

support that big offer that you have.

Jen: 00:19:24

Yeah.

Jen: 00:19:24

Do you have a framework?

Jen: 00:19:25

Do you have other things that you always bring in that, that are useful to other

Jen: 00:19:32

people as smaller standalone options?

Jen: 00:19:34

Or do you train people on certain aspects that you could break that part off as

Jen: 00:19:39

a course, as something very useful that people can just consume and take in?

Jen: 00:19:46

Yeah.

Jen: 00:19:46

This is a place where you need to be really.

Jen: 00:19:49

Creative, and there are a lot of people who do this and they, it,

Jen: 00:19:52

there's a little bit of an art to it.

Jen: 00:19:54

You may have to we've talked about this before.

Jen: 00:19:55

Marketing is testing, you wanna test this out.

Jen: 00:19:58

Nothing is set in stone here, so it's just about going in.

Jen: 00:20:04

And thinking about your big offer a little bit differently

Jen: 00:20:07

so that you are supporting it.

Jen: 00:20:08

So people then when they sign up with you, there's no surprises.

Jen: 00:20:12

the people who are like super excited to work with you, they're getting all

Jen: 00:20:15

of the features in one way or another.

Jen: 00:20:18

I've read books by people like it, and if I just went to their blog and read the

Jen: 00:20:22

whole thing, I would get the book right?

Jen: 00:20:25

Yep.

Jen: 00:20:25

This is kinda the same thing.

Jen: 00:20:26

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:20:27

, but I can tell you with this podcast is a top of the funnel podcast.

Jen: 00:20:32

We're doing how-tos, we're talking about all of this stuff.

Jen: 00:20:36

Somebody comes and works with me.

Jen: 00:20:37

It's a different experience, but this is your chance to come.

Jen: 00:20:42

Watch this, listen to this, and you're like, Do I like Jen?

Jen: 00:20:45

Do I like Shelley?

Jen: 00:20:46

Could I work with them again?

Jen: 00:20:48

, you're getting a taste of what we are like in terms of our personalities,

Jen: 00:20:52

what we are like in terms of working together, our depths of knowledge,

Jen: 00:20:56

what we can do to help you.

Jen: 00:20:58

This is our top of the funnel.

Jen: 00:21:00

This is our free, our freebie, and then it just progresses from there

Jen: 00:21:04

in terms of different offerings.

Jen: 00:21:07

like my next one, my next offering is you subscribe to my email list, you

Jen: 00:21:11

get a free marketing self-assessment.

Jen: 00:21:13

That's the next thing, in the product funnel.

Jen: 00:21:15

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:21:16

After that I have epiphany courses.

Jen: 00:21:18

You can take courses from me.

Jen: 00:21:19

These are standalone courses.

Jen: 00:21:20

You don't have to hire me.

Jen: 00:21:22

It's not really that's not even what it was built for.

Jen: 00:21:25

And then after that, we start getting into things like coaching programs.

Jen: 00:21:29

So it's everybody's product ladder is a little bit d.

Jen: 00:21:32

But it does come down to thinking through what it is you're offering

Jen: 00:21:36

to people and what are some of the extras that you can offer.

Shelley: 00:21:40

Yeah and things might occur to you as you build them.

Shelley: 00:21:42

Like I decided, oh, I wanna put out two infographics, the content

Shelley: 00:21:46

consistency framework and schedule.

Shelley: 00:21:48

And then I got to looking at them and I thought, I bet there's a lot

Shelley: 00:21:51

of people who don't understand what to do with these when they get them.

Shelley: 00:21:54

So I did a an e, I did an episode of my show on that, then I cut it into nine

Shelley: 00:22:00

pieces and made a course out of it.

Shelley: 00:22:02

So now you can get it for free.

Shelley: 00:22:05

Look at my YouTube channel, and you can go to download the the framework and

Shelley: 00:22:10

schedule for free with your email address.

Shelley: 00:22:12

But you can also get the course which is currently free if you use the coupon code

Shelley: 00:22:17

agk Saver, and you can get the course.

Shelley: 00:22:21

And then you've got all of this content that's going to

Shelley: 00:22:24

walk you through how to do so.

Shelley: 00:22:26

And then you may go, You know what?

Shelley: 00:22:28

I got more money than time.

Shelley: 00:22:30

Let me just pay Shelley to do it for me.

Shelley: 00:22:33

And that's how it works sometimes.

Shelley: 00:22:35

And that's

Jen: 00:22:35

how it works.

Jen: 00:22:36

Or sometimes people do it and they're like, Wow, I really wanna do this.

Jen: 00:22:39

And it's over my head.

Jen: 00:22:40

And so they decide to hire someone.

Jen: 00:22:41

And that's okay too.

Jen: 00:22:43

That's part of it too.

Jen: 00:22:43

We're not advocating for providing something that isn't holistic.

Jen: 00:22:48

What Shelley and I offer is holistic.

Jen: 00:22:50

It stands alone.

Jen: 00:22:52

We know because some of the stuff we do is a little bit technical.

Jen: 00:22:56

Sometimes people still decide that they wanna hire somebody.

Jen: 00:22:58

Yeah.

Jen: 00:22:59

So you wanna do that with your small offers as well.

Jen: 00:23:03

Like your smaller offers are really your chance to build

Jen: 00:23:06

a bridge to something bigger.

Jen: 00:23:08

Unless you're doing like an epiphany courses where people can consume that

Jen: 00:23:12

and they don't have to hire somebody.

Jen: 00:23:14

But you can always, whatever you offer, you wanna make sure that it's good.

Jen: 00:23:18

That people will still be.

Jen: 00:23:20

Interested

Jen: 00:23:21

. Shelley: Yeah.

Jen: 00:23:22

And you want it to be in alignment.

Jen: 00:23:24

In alignment with everything else that you offer so that it's not some weird one off.

Jen: 00:23:28

Like, why would I buy a hat from you?

Jen: 00:23:30

That's just weird.

Jen: 00:23:31

That doesn't even fit, that's right.

Jen: 00:23:33

Here's a Women Conquer business hat.

Jen: 00:23:35

What?

Jen: 00:23:36

What ? Why do I need that?

Jen: 00:23:40

? I.

Jen: 00:23:40

Stickers maybe, but

Jen: 00:23:41

So this was the first product ladder, which is like breaking.

Jen: 00:23:45

I really wanted hats and shirts and stickers, but that's okay.

Jen: 00:23:48

The first one is breaking your services into smaller chunks.

Jen: 00:23:51

That's the first ones we've talked through.

Jen: 00:23:53

What that kind of product ladder would look like, right?

Jen: 00:23:56

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:23:56

. The other one is where you offer products and services in bundles or packages.

Jen: 00:24:02

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:24:02

. So let's say you have, two or three offerings that are maybe not as

Jen: 00:24:08

expensive, but you put them all together and then you have something

Jen: 00:24:13

more deluxe or something bigger.

Jen: 00:24:15

So you could have, say you have two courses, but you bundle them

Jen: 00:24:18

together and you can sell them all as.

Jen: 00:24:21

Big

Shelley: 00:24:22

package, right?

Shelley: 00:24:23

And then you throw in your book or for workbook or other resources that you've

Shelley: 00:24:28

put out separately as lead magnets or as low cost entry level products.

Shelley: 00:24:34

You can put all that together, as you say, maybe resources, books,

Shelley: 00:24:37

a course Yeah a hat and a shirt.

Jen: 00:24:40

Something I've thought about.

Jen: 00:24:41

So I offer basically monthly marketing coaching, but I actually

Jen: 00:24:47

had somebody ask me for it.

Jen: 00:24:48

It's something I did in the way back times that I haven't done, but

Jen: 00:24:51

I had somebody who's I would just like to sit with you for a day.

Jen: 00:24:54

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:24:54

, I feel like I just sat with you for a day.

Jen: 00:24:56

I could learn so much.

Jen: 00:24:57

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:24:58

, why don't I have a VIP day?

Jen: 00:24:59

I've never actually done that before.

Jen: 00:25:02

, when I was doing like web development, sometimes I would travel to

Jen: 00:25:04

people's locations and we would work together to get something out.

Jen: 00:25:07

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:25:07

. But I've never had somebody who's I just wanna ask you

Jen: 00:25:10

questions all day about marketing.

Jen: 00:25:13

So I was like maybe I should do that.

Jen: 00:25:14

So the other way to go is maybe you have something that you could

Jen: 00:25:17

then make bigger and more deluxe.

Jen: 00:25:20

Mm-hmm.

Jen: 00:25:20

And that's the other direction that you can go is if.

Jen: 00:25:24

Have a few things.

Jen: 00:25:25

Sometimes I'll bundle together done for you so that it's not a one-off package.

Jen: 00:25:29

It's like I bundle a bunch of hours together or I bundle a

Jen: 00:25:32

bunch of products together.

Jen: 00:25:33

There's so many different ways that you can do this.

Jen: 00:25:36

The key though is as business owners, and especially in an uncertain

Jen: 00:25:40

economy, you wanna have a lot of different things that you're offer.

Jen: 00:25:44

Because that diversity of products will bring people in that are

Jen: 00:25:47

interested in different things.

Jen: 00:25:50

Just don't overwhelm yourself with so many things.

Jen: 00:25:54

Yeah.

Jen: 00:25:54

You don't wanna do that either.

Jen: 00:25:56

You wanna just have some discreet things that bring people along to different

Jen: 00:25:59

levels so that you can make more money in the long run because you're offering

Jen: 00:26:06

a few things, but at different price points and different entry points.

Shelley: 00:26:11

That's right.

Shelley: 00:26:12

And if they flow together, all the better, right?

Shelley: 00:26:15

Like people come in, they see your lead magnet, and you're like,

Shelley: 00:26:17

Oh, I like this, but I want a little more information about it.

Shelley: 00:26:20

Get the book or the course or bundle 'em together.

Shelley: 00:26:24

And then you have the package, and you put like a oh, and it's discounted.

Shelley: 00:26:28

So it makes it more attractive.

Shelley: 00:26:30

And then, They get all of that.

Shelley: 00:26:32

They get through all of that and they're like, I'm ready to go, but I

Shelley: 00:26:35

need just a little bit of coaching.

Shelley: 00:26:37

Okay.

Shelley: 00:26:38

Well maybe I should add on an hour of coaching to, the package you just

Shelley: 00:26:42

play with it and you see what people ask for what they need more of.

Shelley: 00:26:46

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:26:47

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:26:50

What else?

Jen: 00:26:51

Anything else?

Jen: 00:26:51

No, I think.

Jen: 00:26:53

I think we've hit it pretty hard.

Jen: 00:26:54

We climb that ladder, we climb

Shelley: 00:26:55

that ladder,

Shelley: 00:26:59

we give you some more treats.

Shelley: 00:27:01

Some more treats.

Shelley: 00:27:02

Yay, . So

Jen: 00:27:04

if you're wondering how to create, publish, and distribute

Jen: 00:27:07

content consistently, Shelley made a whole course about that.

Jen: 00:27:11

If you go to course dot agk media, dot studio with coupon code.

Jen: 00:27:16

Agk Saver, that's Agk Saver.

Jen: 00:27:18

All caps through November 18th.

Jen: 00:27:22

I dunno why I always wanna say October 18th.

Jen: 00:27:24

That was in the past . So if through November 18th you can

Jen: 00:27:28

get into that course for free.

Jen: 00:27:30

So I really encourage you to give that a try.

Jen: 00:27:32

It will help you create content like a champ

Shelley: 00:27:35

consistently consist.

Shelley: 00:27:37

That's the important part.

Shelley: 00:27:38

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:27:39

And also if you are really trying to figure out your marketing and what

Shelley: 00:27:44

is marketing and how much am I, what I'm doing already is marketing and

Shelley: 00:27:47

how much more should I be doing?

Shelley: 00:27:49

Go to Jens self-assessment for marketing and that's free, and you can go to send

Shelley: 00:27:54

fox.com/wcb for that free self assessment.

Shelley: 00:28:00

Right.

Shelley: 00:28:01

Yeah.

Jen: 00:28:02

All right.

Jen: 00:28:03

Julio Uhoh,

Shelley: 00:28:06

tweak time . Jen's got some info.

Shelley: 00:28:12

Wait, did we have a any, Oh, Toby wanted a question here.

Shelley: 00:28:15

How is YouTube's podcasting initiative doing?

Shelley: 00:28:21

they're, they just keep trying little things.

Shelley: 00:28:23

They're doing what we're doing, right?

Shelley: 00:28:25

YouTube is trying different things.

Shelley: 00:28:27

What is this gonna work?

Shelley: 00:28:28

Should we put money into it?

Shelley: 00:28:29

Should we hire somebody to lead that up?

Shelley: 00:28:32

They're doing the same thing that we're doing.

Jen: 00:28:34

Yeah.

Jen: 00:28:34

I don't know.

Jen: 00:28:35

I haven't heard a lot about it.

Jen: 00:28:36

I, it's interesting.

Jen: 00:28:37

In she podcast, they had a, they did a poll and everybody said

Jen: 00:28:42

that they still prefer audio.

Jen: 00:28:46

instead of watching people.

Jen: 00:28:47

So it's really interesting.

Jen: 00:28:48

Podcast listeners are a funny bunch, so Who knows how that's gonna work?

Jen: 00:28:52

I haven't heard anything.

Jen: 00:28:53

Toby, have you heard anything

Jen: 00:28:55

If so, leave us a comment and let us know.

Jen: 00:28:59

, if anybody else who's watching or listening has heard anything about

Jen: 00:29:02

the YouTube initiatives around podcasting, I'd love to hear it

Jen: 00:29:06

too cuz I honestly haven't heard.

Shelley: 00:29:09

Yeah, or if you have any questions about what we could

Shelley: 00:29:11

cover today with Product Ladder, put those in the comments as.

Shelley: 00:29:15

Oh, for sure.

Shelley: 00:29:16

Now we're gonna tweak

Shelley: 00:29:20

What do you got for Tweak?

Shelley: 00:29:21

Tweak of the week there, Jen.

Jen: 00:29:23

So this has been sitting in our show flow for a while.

Jen: 00:29:27

We just were looking for a good time to talk about it.

Jen: 00:29:29

I think this is a great times because, yeah.

Jen: 00:29:32

. As you're doing your product ladder, you're going to have

Jen: 00:29:35

some sort of landing page.

Jen: 00:29:36

So a landing page is a place where people buy your products, they sign up for

Jen: 00:29:40

things, all different kinds of things.

Jen: 00:29:42

I think most of you know what a landing page is, but you may have questions

Jen: 00:29:46

about how to create a great landing page.

Jen: 00:29:49

This is available on App Sumo.

Jen: 00:29:50

I bought it, Oh gosh.

Jen: 00:29:52

I think a couple of months.

Jen: 00:29:53

This isn't like a typical app, Sumo app.

Jen: 00:29:57

It is an entire guide and you can read it on Notion there's an ebook

Jen: 00:30:02

for it, like an audiobook, like it has all, It's very interactive and

Jen: 00:30:06

you can get all of the details about how to make your landing pages better.

Jen: 00:30:12

This was put together by somebody named Rob.

Jen: 00:30:14

Hope he has a.

Jen: 00:30:16

And that's at rob hope.com or if you wanna buy this landing page hot tips sheet with

Jen: 00:30:21

all these different ideas in it, it walks you through a lot of what it's gonna

Jen: 00:30:26

take to get your landing page together and to help execute that in a way.

Jen: 00:30:31

That will draw in people and hopefully convert more people to

Jen: 00:30:34

buy your products and services.

Jen: 00:30:36

So I recommend this.

Jen: 00:30:38

I think that it's $29 on App Sumo.

Jen: 00:30:41

I think that it is a great deal at that price . I highly recommend it

Jen: 00:30:46

if you struggle with writing copy, if you have questions about what, what

Jen: 00:30:52

constitutes, I guess a good landing page that will bring people in.

Jen: 00:30:56

This is a really good guide and like I said, it's not.

Jen: 00:30:59

It's not only like a PDF guide, it's got a lot of different audio clips

Jen: 00:31:05

and I think maybe some videos that, that really show you some different

Jen: 00:31:08

ways that you can improve your landing pages and make them better.

Jen: 00:31:13

Very cool.

Jen: 00:31:13

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:31:15

So that's on App Sumo.

Shelley: 00:31:16

Go grab that On App Sumo only $29.

Shelley: 00:31:20

And you know the thing about App Sumo that's awesome is they give

Shelley: 00:31:23

you two months to figure out if the product is gonna work for you.

Shelley: 00:31:26

That you can get your money back or you can get credits and get something

Shelley: 00:31:29

else if it didn't work for you.

Shelley: 00:31:31

So awesome place to get things.

Shelley: 00:31:33

That's right.

Shelley: 00:31:34

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:31:35

We're gonna have a show about up Sumo, aren't we?

Jen: 00:31:38

We are.

Jen: 00:31:38

We just haven't had it yet.

Jen: 00:31:39

Yeah, we're

Shelley: 00:31:40

gonna get.

Shelley: 00:31:42

Happening.

Shelley: 00:31:43

Are you ready?

Shelley: 00:31:43

Wow.

Shelley: 00:31:44

We are.

Shelley: 00:31:44

We're really screaming today.

Shelley: 00:31:46

We are

Jen: 00:31:46

screaming today.

Jen: 00:31:46

It's a quickie.

Jen: 00:31:47

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:31:49

Let's have some inspiration from Epi Titus.

Shelley: 00:31:54

What then makes a person free from hindrance and self-determining for

Shelley: 00:31:58

wealth doesn't, neither does high office, state or kingdom, rather,

Shelley: 00:32:03

something else must be found.

Shelley: 00:32:05

In the case of living it is the knowledge of how to live.

Shelley: 00:32:09

Hm, Pretty interesting.

Shelley: 00:32:11

You have two essential tasks in life.

Shelley: 00:32:13

To be a good person and to pursue the occupation that you love.

Shelley: 00:32:16

Everything else is a waste of energy and a squandering of your potential.

Shelley: 00:32:21

Isn't that interesting?

Shelley: 00:32:22

How does one do that?

Shelley: 00:32:23

The philosophy we see from the stoics makes it simple enough say

Shelley: 00:32:27

no to distractions, to destructive emotions, and to outside.

Shelley: 00:32:33

You be you.

Jen: 00:32:34

That's good.

Jen: 00:32:35

That's so easy to do those things.

Jen: 00:32:37

. Shelley: Good talk . So let's make

Jen: 00:32:42

on this planet and do the right thing when the situation calls

Jen: 00:32:45

for it and treat other people the way you would hope to be treated.

Jen: 00:32:48

Understand that every small choice and tiny matter is an opportunity

Jen: 00:32:52

to practice these larger princip.

Jen: 00:32:55

When you look at why do you do the things that you do, you should be able

Jen: 00:32:59

to see your principles underneath them.

Jen: 00:33:01

Why do I speak to an older generation about how to set up an in-home studio

Jen: 00:33:07

and get their message out into the world because, I find that it's really

Jen: 00:33:11

important for the older generation to have access to the larger conversation.

Jen: 00:33:17

I want to help them spread their wisdom, a message of hope and a

Jen: 00:33:22

legacy of love throughout the world to hopefully drown out some of this

Jen: 00:33:26

crap that's going on in the world is bad, bad news, bad vibe stuff.

Jen: 00:33:31

Let's get, give some voice and platform to the people who have a positive message

Jen: 00:33:35

to share, and that's why I do what I do.

Jen: 00:33:37

What about.

Jen: 00:33:38

I was so busy listening to you.

Jen: 00:33:40

I wasn't thinking about how to answer that question myself.

Jen: 00:33:44

, Shelley: do you see your

Jen: 00:33:46

things that you do every day?

Jen: 00:33:48

I, I really.

Jen: 00:33:49

Believe that if we give smaller businesses the tools they need to succeed, that

Jen: 00:33:55

it makes the world a better place.

Jen: 00:33:57

I think there are too many people who are overlooked and put down

Jen: 00:34:03

and not given a shot, and they can't afford huge consulting firms.

Jen: 00:34:10

And there are a lot of, There are a lot of folks out there that need help and.

Jen: 00:34:15

I am that person who's giving you voice and who's giving

Jen: 00:34:19

you an opportunity to shine.

Jen: 00:34:21

And I believe I'm the embodiment of that every single day.

Jen: 00:34:26

And I do everything I can to support my local community and the people

Jen: 00:34:31

who find me out in the world.

Jen: 00:34:33

And,

Shelley: 00:34:35

yeah.

Shelley: 00:34:36

Yeah, I think Jen and I have a very similar mission, and that's why

Shelley: 00:34:39

this works so well when we team up.

Shelley: 00:34:44

Yeah, Yeah.

Shelley: 00:34:46

. So Jed is gonna be going to

Jen: 00:34:47

Hawaii.

Jen: 00:34:49

I'm very excited

Shelley: 00:34:49

about that.

Shelley: 00:34:50

Yeah.

Shelley: 00:34:50

For Halloween, for two weeks for vacation, and we're gonna miss her.

Shelley: 00:34:55

But we wish her safe travels and we look forward to all the insightful

Shelley: 00:35:01

things she's gonna have to bring back with her because she's gonna have

Shelley: 00:35:04

time to rest and let her mind recer.

Shelley: 00:35:07

Yeah, I need

Jen: 00:35:08

some rest.

Jen: 00:35:09

I will admit that

Shelley: 00:35:13

and I'm gonna be here working and getting my course out

Shelley: 00:35:17

and yeah, just doing all the things.

Jen: 00:35:19

Doing all the things.

Jen: 00:35:20

Good stuff.

Jen: 00:35:21

So thank you so much, much for being here.

Jen: 00:35:23

And we, even though I will be on an island somewhere, We will be here next

Jen: 00:35:29

week and the week after that we have already recorded it, so please tune

Jen: 00:35:34

in and we will continue to help you and guide you through your marketing.

Jen: 00:35:39

Nice.

Shelley: 00:35:42

Thank you for joining the Women Conquer Business Podcast, hosted

Shelley: 00:35:45

by Shelley Carney and Jen McFarland.

Shelley: 00:35:48

Please subscribe and leave a comment or question regarding your most challenging

Shelley: 00:35:52

content creation or business problem.

Shelley: 00:35:54

Then share this podcast with family and friends.

Shelley: 00:35:57

So they can find the support they need to expand their brand and

Shelley: 00:36:00

share their message with the world.

Shelley: 00:36:03

Check the show notes for links to valuable resources and come back again next week.