Shownotes
Coming off Ben Hur — the first film to win 11 Oscars — we hit the only other movie to match that record: Titanic. And yeah, it won zero acting awards, which tells you everything you need to know going in.
Kyle, Seth, and John break down James Cameron's $200 million gamble that somehow became the highest-grossing film of its time — and one of the most emotionally manipulative movies ever made. Is it a romance? A disaster film? A technical marvel hiding a deeply mediocre screenplay? All three. We dig into why Billy Zane, Kathy Bates, and Bernard Hill (King Theoden himself) are criminally underrated here, why Rose is genuinely insufferable as a narrator, and why Jack Dawson — a nomadic hobo who apparently had all of Paris wanting their portrait done — is one of the weirdest protagonists in blockbuster history.
We also get personal: Seth watched it with a different girlfriend three times and never once made it through without hearing crying to his right. John rewatched it before a cruise. Kyle was butthurt about the box office. And we all agree — once that ship starts going down, Cameron is absolutely untouchable.
It's a 2/2 kind of movie. A technical masterpiece wrapped around a script that should've sunk with the boat.
Companies / Films mentioned:
- Eightland
- Ben Hur
- Titanic
- Lord of the Rings
- Alita: Battle Angel
- Blue Valentine
- Twister, Dante's Peak, San Andreas
Tags: Titanic podcast, Movie Wars podcast, James Cameron Titanic, Titanic film analysis, Titanic movie review, Jack and Rose, Titanic Oscar wins, Titanic acting, Billy Zane Titanic, Titanic writing critique, Titanic disaster film, Titanic romance, Titanic historical accuracy, Titanic filmmaking, Titanic special effects, Titanic cultural impact, Leo DiCaprio Kate Winslet, Titanic character analysis, Ben Hur 11 Oscars, 90s blockbusters
Transcripts
Foreign.
Speaker B:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.
Speaker B:Kyle here.
Speaker A:I'm Seth.
Speaker C:And I'm John.
Speaker B:Captain.
Speaker B:Captain John.
Speaker C:That did not sink.
Speaker B:We've got an Eightland hat on.
Speaker C:I do.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:We had an eight land cruise.
Speaker B:What was it like getting off the cruise and then watching this movie?
Speaker A:Are you glad you didn't watch it first?
Speaker C:I did watch it first.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I just wanted to know what to do in case Paula was like, there's no room on this door.
Speaker C:Like, I've seen this movie before.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm not dying.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Let's give money to a guy, a guard, that's going to die anyway and has no use for money.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:After he's dead.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:What a movie.
Speaker A:We're coming off of Ben Hur last week, the first movie to win 11 Oscars.
Speaker A:And now we hit Titanic, the other standalone movie to win 11 Oscars, which I think it's worth noting, it did not win in any acting categories for a good reason.
Speaker C:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, man.
Speaker B:And I. I feel.
Speaker B:I felt bad for Billy Zayn.
Speaker C:Yeah, he did a great job.
Speaker A:He, Kathy Bates and Bernard Hill.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All crushed their respective.
Speaker B:Was he the guard or.
Speaker B:He was the captain?
Speaker B:He's captain.
Speaker A:He plays King Theoden in Lord of the Rings.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:He was great, too.
Speaker A:He was incredible.
Speaker B:Then there's a few good actors.
Speaker B:Like, I do like the guy that is Cal's bodyguard type guy.
Speaker B:Yeah, he was good, too.
Speaker A:He's good as generic henchman number one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Generic henchman.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I hadn't seen this, so I had this on the.
Speaker B:I was telling you guys before we hit record that I had this on double vhs.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:I was very much alive and well during the hysteria.
Speaker A:I love.
Speaker A:I love the difference in our double VHS experience.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Mine was Ben Hur.
Speaker A:Yours was.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:You had to put in the tape right after the drawing scene.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, That's.
Speaker B:That's when it's worked up.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're all worked up.
Speaker B:And then it's like all of a sudden they're in a steamy car, you know, is it.
Speaker B:Is it bad that my first thought is, no wonder this thing say they got cars in the bottom.
Speaker B:The lifeboats are made of actual wood.
Speaker B:It's like they got.
Speaker B:Could you get some lighter on this car?
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker B:Come on, man.
Speaker C:The captain promised.
Speaker B:Yeah, but he made a promise.
Speaker A:My first experience with this movie.
Speaker A:So before this viewing, I've seen it three times, each time with a different girlfriend.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:The first time, though, I had been broken up with this girlfriend for six months.
Speaker A:We were chill, we were still friends, and she hit me up one day.
Speaker A:It was like, hey, I'm coming through your side of town.
Speaker A:You want to hang out and watch a movie or something?
Speaker A:I was like, cool.
Speaker A:What's in theaters?
Speaker A:The only thing that was in theaters was the IMAX 3D re release of Titanic.
Speaker A:And I'd never seen it before, so I was like, yeah, let's go into Titanic.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we were the only two people in an entire IMAX theater six months broken up.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:It was the most awkward experience of my life.
Speaker B:You didn't try to draw her, did you?
Speaker C:No, no.
Speaker A:But I will say, and this has been consistent across all three women that I've watched it with every time that like, she finally gets on the boat and it, it like fades back to old Rose telling the story and then it pans across the crew and they're all a little teary eyed and everything.
Speaker A:Every single time, without fail.
Speaker A:I've just heard to my right.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:And I look and they are all three of them just bawling.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:In tears.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's crazy how, how manipulative this movie is to women.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I was crying for different reasons.
Speaker C:Yeah, you were butt hurt.
Speaker B:I was butthurt.
Speaker C:This makes so much money.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, we really gave Leo a career because of this movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It gave Kate Winslet the ability to just take any that she wanted instead of roles that she had to take.
Speaker A:Like, she hit the indie scene hard after this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What did you think?
Speaker B:How did you experience it?
Speaker C:Yeah, I've seen it with girlfriends and it's great.
Speaker C:I mean, like I told more times
Speaker A:by myself and more times by myself.
Speaker C:This used to be my favorite movie for a while until like actually got into movies because I was like.
Speaker C:Because I don't know, there was just like, I was a pretty, I was pretty sentimental person back in the day.
Speaker C:And then like, I realized what movies could do because I took set took his girlfriend to Titanic.
Speaker C:I took my girlfriend on Valentine's Day to see Blue Valentine, which is a movie about.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Is that the Ryan Gosling one?
Speaker B:And Michelle Williams.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:We thought it was gonna be like a romantic comedy.
Speaker C:Could not be further away.
Speaker C:So like.
Speaker B:Yeah, but she just called that movie Die.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because that's what you want to do when you're done watching it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Nothing ever lasts.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, I watching rewatching it this past time before I got on the cruise though, I was like, wow, I have a lot of.
Speaker C:A lot of criticisms now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:The people who, like, are just, like, little tidbits that they tried to follow with, like, history, and I guess we'll get into it.
Speaker C:I'm like, that was my favorite part of the movie.
Speaker C:Like, the guy drank as much as he possibly could.
Speaker C:I totally do that.
Speaker C:I'd break my sobriety if I was sinking on the ship in the dark.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:I'd knock back a few.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Can't ruin your life if the ship's going down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Sadly, I don't start liking this movie until that ship starts going down.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker C:You take as a metaphor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I. I know that it's horrific, and it was a horrific event in history, but when the ship starts going down, I was like, finally, this thing's getting good.
Speaker C:Like, enough of this Celine Dion.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:More.
Speaker B:More drowning, less acting.
Speaker A:It's like, freeze your butts off.
Speaker B:This is what you.
Speaker B:Me, sit through the first hour and a half of this movie.
Speaker A:This is what you get for making me see Kate Winslet's boobs.
Speaker B:Yes, it was.
Speaker A:Which I saw for the first time in IMAX 3D.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah, That's.
Speaker C:Did you look at your girlfriend and you're like, I could do better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Remember, ex girlfriend?
Speaker A:We have been fully broken up for six months, and we're just like.
Speaker B:And it's just the YouTube.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:That's, like, peak awkwardness.
Speaker A:Oh, so, so awkward.
Speaker B:Peak.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think my biggest thing coming back to this movie is I. I just couldn't believe.
Speaker B:And I texted you this two years earlier.
Speaker B:Leo does Basketball Diaries, and even though he's younger, he's so much better in that movie.
Speaker B:And then he had Romeo and Juliet.
Speaker B:He's so much better in Romeo and Juliet.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:And that sounds like Gilbert.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker A:Before this as well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Way before.
Speaker B:He was really young.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:All better.
Speaker B:Leo movies.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:In terms of, like, now.
Speaker B:But this made him maybe the biggest heartthrob in history.
Speaker A:Oh, 100.
Speaker B:I was listening to another podcast, doing research, and they.
Speaker B:They said, like, Bieber kind of, like, achieved kind of that Leo.
Speaker B:And then from a sports perspective, LeBron James, because, you know, he started getting on Sports Illustrated when he was, like, 15.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, like, they kind of like.
Speaker B:But I don't know that you can top Leo heartthrob post Titanic.
Speaker B:This made him the biggest superstar in the world during that time.
Speaker A:25.
Speaker B:When they made this movie, he was 21.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:And when it came out, we were debating.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I was gonna say if he was 25, then it would make sense why his cutoff's always 25 with his girlfriends.
Speaker A:Because he's, like, living in that moment.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's living in that moment.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I just, you know, besides Billy Zane, which I think Billy Zane is just, like, acting his ass off here.
Speaker B:And I think his character.
Speaker B:So pissed off because Billy Zane was really pissed off watching these kids make all so much more money than him.
Speaker A:Also, he's.
Speaker A:He's just a cuckold for the movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:He's a placeholder.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I have a recurring joke on this podcast when we talk about James Cameron movies that he.
Speaker B:He marries another wife.
Speaker B:He did marry his fifth wife on this movie, Susie Ames, who plays Rose's daughter or granddaughter or whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:He averages one wife per film.
Speaker A:The nepotism is real.
Speaker C:One wife.
Speaker B:One wife.
Speaker B:He married Linda Hamilton after Terminator.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So congrats.
Speaker A:What's crazy to me is he made Terminator like, four years before this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like Terminator 2, which is a perfect film.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:And I texted him this.
Speaker A:I'm pretty sure, like, that movie just sucked all of the good writing out of him.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Like, I don't think he's capable of writing a good movie anymore.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:He just made a bunch of money and was like, I'm gonna spend it frivolously.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's spend it all on visuals.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker C:Yeah, we'll.
Speaker A:We'll put a story in there, I guess.
Speaker B:He became so obsessed with innovation, and his innovation is incredible.
Speaker B:And one way I heard this put.
Speaker B:That was really brilliant.
Speaker B:I think Van Latham said this on the ringer one time, but he said that there's only a handful of Alpha directors that.
Speaker B:That exist.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker B:Like, that are inventive, like the Nolan.
Speaker B:But he said James Cameron is the only one that has his own planet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, in terms of what he's invented and accomplished, literally.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But his later films, in my opinion, have been at the expense of worse writing, worse acting, great visuals, innovation.
Speaker B:Like all the things he's known for.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But there was a time where he had a balance.
Speaker B:And like, I agree with you.
Speaker B:That was a really astute.
Speaker B:I was racing.
Speaker B:I think T2 is where that balance may have.
Speaker B:And even True Lies, Like, I'm an Arnold head.
Speaker B:Everyone knows that.
Speaker B:But I think True Lies is actually Arnold's, maybe one of his worst films, and that's considered James Cameron and Arnold's, like, you know, big thing.
Speaker A:What's crazy is the quality of movie that he produces when he's not directing because he produced Alita Battle angel, which is one of my favorite Robert Rodriguez movies.
Speaker A:Like that one was so much fun.
Speaker A:The world, I know it's based on a manga, but like the, the, the world it created is, is just so much fun to watch and the story it tells is amazing and he produced it and it looks incredible.
Speaker A:But Robert Rodriguez gave it the depth it needed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:As a reminder, we do film history.
Speaker B:We do randos, which are the most interesting factoids and trivia that we uncover during our research.
Speaker B:We do the questions, which are questions that generate fun banter and comedic discourse.
Speaker B:And then we finished with the War Zone, which is the four questions we used to say yes or no to this film.
Speaker B:So let's dive into this history, which is really interesting.
Speaker B:A lot of people say this movie was really just an excuse for James Cameron to dive down and get to see the Titanic.
Speaker B:He is actually obsessed with it.
Speaker B:He did, he did 12 dives to see this movie and he's done 33 total dives in his life.
Speaker B:Yeah, but he did 12 for this movie and apparently the first time he saw it, he cried.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah, I would too like that.
Speaker A:That is, it was a marvel because the footage at the beginning is actual sub footage, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh no, it is.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's magic.
Speaker A:Like I, I would be over take overtaken and overwhelmed as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'd just be like, man, that's an ugly, rusty boat, man.
Speaker C:I bet, I bet a crappy movie about this.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna put really bad actors on this sucker.
Speaker B:Um, it was pitched as Romeo and Juliet on the Titanic, which is funny that Leo did Romeo and Juliet.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not too long before it was a budget nightmare it had.
Speaker B:It was capped at $110 million budget, but it blew up to 210 million, making it the most expensive film ever at the time.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Cost more than than Ben Hur adjusted for inflation.
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker B:And when they panicked about it, Paramount came in with an additional $65 million.
Speaker A:So they actually fox a cool 65 mil.
Speaker B:Yeah, fox and Paramount split it.
Speaker B:Cameron forfeited his entire 8 million dollar salary.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:So he said, all right, I respect that at least.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:But you know, but he did have a back end deal that eventually paid him 115 million.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because it made $2 billion.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And one thing that we really, you know, that gets focused on now I mean this movie in total, the all in math is that this movie has made $4 billion.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker B:All in total.
Speaker B:That's VHS, that's DVD, re release theater, all in.
Speaker B:It made 4 billion.
Speaker C:Yeah, milk it.
Speaker A:Incredible.
Speaker B:Just milk it.
Speaker B:And you know, I'm sure if they do another theater run, chicks will be out.
Speaker B:My wife told me that her, her cousin saw it nine times.
Speaker A:Yeah, insane.
Speaker B:But the, the hysteria didn't happen until after it came out.
Speaker B:It was actually being very much pitched as a disaster because they, they had to move the, the release date.
Speaker B:The actors were miserable.
Speaker B:There was a lot of stuff happening that made people think that this.
Speaker B:And it was starting to get claimed that was going to.
Speaker B:It came out.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Which is crazy to think that when it came out there was so much.
Speaker B:I mean being alive during that time was wild.
Speaker B:I mean the Titan.
Speaker B:Yeah, the Titanic hysteria was insane.
Speaker B:People were leaving school to go watch it.
Speaker B:Like their parents were picking it up and then going to the theater on weekdays to rewatch the movie.
Speaker C:To watch Billy Zane.
Speaker B:Yeah, to watch, to watch Billy Zayn raise Leo DiCaprio and Kate win.
Speaker B:But yeah, it was 160 day shooting schedule.
Speaker B:It went 22 days over, 80 out.
Speaker A:Surprising that it only went 22 days over.
Speaker C:I thought it would be like half a year.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Coppola did show up with a cow.
Speaker B:He was like, hey, this is what it takes.
Speaker B:You want to make this go along, Hire Brando, see if you can fit the, fit the shooting schedule.
Speaker A:Yeah, he'll play a good Leo.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:80 hours, six day work week scheduled.
Speaker B:They skipped lunches constantly.
Speaker B:I mean they were going.
Speaker B:And Kate Winslet, actually, I don't know if she still hates James Cameron to this day, but afterwards she, she refused to wear a wetsuit.
Speaker B:She got hypothermia, chipped her elbow bone, nearly drowned when she got her coat snagged on a gate.
Speaker B:She later called it an ordeal.
Speaker B:And gay.
Speaker B:On a gate.
Speaker B:Oh, sorry, did I not pronounce?
Speaker A:I heard gay.
Speaker A:I was like, I'm sorry.
Speaker B:On a gay.
Speaker B:Yeah, there was a gay man, he
Speaker C:was one of the butlers.
Speaker B:And she almost drowned.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So James Holiday was out there.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was rough, man.
Speaker B:And she called an ordeal and vowed never to work with James Cameron again.
Speaker B:And she said it was the closest thing to observing slavery that she'd ever seen.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I mean it sounds like it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker B:Which I don't know if those comments would hold up well today, but.
Speaker B:She's British.
Speaker C:Yeah, she's.
Speaker A:They're you know, the original white slavers.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Apparently a disgruntled crew member laced the lobster chowder at one point with angel dust.
Speaker A:I heard about this.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Oh, I forgot about this.
Speaker B:Someone was so mad that they.
Speaker B:Lazy 80 people got hospitalized.
Speaker C:What is angel dust again?
Speaker B:PCP.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, so they're just tripping while out.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Giant pool of water.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, that's the thing that when you watch stories about police shooting a guy in the chest 10 times and then just keep walking.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's PCP.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's the good stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He would know.
Speaker A:He's from Arkansas.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And my dad was a narcotics officer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Remember Training Day?
Speaker B:I didn't know you like to get wet, though.
Speaker B:Germ dust, pcb.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know if.
Speaker B:I don't know if everything turns green.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I've never done it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You would ask those people on that film.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's hilarious.
Speaker B:What a way to get back at people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and that's a hell of a drug.
Speaker B:I can understand maybe like a little.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Maybe a pot brownie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or some acid even.
Speaker B:Like, where did he even like.
Speaker B:He had to go get the pcp, which means he knew where to get people.
Speaker C:He's making overtime because he's working 80 hours.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker A:Did they shoot in LA?
Speaker B:I actually don't have that written down.
Speaker A:I feel like they shot it was either LA or London, which I feel like it's pretty easy to get PCP at both.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so the casting choices originally were crazy.
Speaker B:This is going to blow your mind.
Speaker B:River Phoenix for Jack.
Speaker A:That tracks, though.
Speaker B:Matthew McConaughey.
Speaker B:Chris O'.
Speaker B:Donnell.
Speaker A:King of the damn world, girl.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Don't slip.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:17.
Speaker B:That's cool, that's cool, that's cool.
Speaker B:You want a cigarette?
Speaker B:You know, this boat is a flat circle.
Speaker A:Let's googie spit at them.
Speaker B:Ye.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Jared Leto.
Speaker A:Yeah, that also tracks.
Speaker C:That tracks.
Speaker A:He was on My so Called Life at the time and was like the TV heartthrob of the time.
Speaker B:Jared.
Speaker B:Tom Cruise.
Speaker A:That tracks as well.
Speaker B:Christian Bale.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:That would have been interesting because he had just come off of Little Women.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Paul Rudd.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Brad Pitt.
Speaker B:Mark Wahlberg, All Considered.
Speaker A:Can you imagine?
Speaker A:Marky Mark.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:Paul Rudd, of all people.
Speaker C:Be like, I'm Rose.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:What the you doing?
Speaker B:King of the world.
Speaker B:What are you gonna do about it?
Speaker B:I get off the boat, I'm gonna Dr.
Speaker A:Draw your tits.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:Draw your tits.
Speaker A:That's just awkward.
Speaker B:Come on.
Speaker B:Your mother.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That would have been wild.
Speaker A:Just like.
Speaker A:So Mark, do you have to talk like that?
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:What's amazing is DiCaprio refused to audition and Cameron.
Speaker B:So they didn't let him.
Speaker B:They didn't make him read for the part.
Speaker B:But he said that until he.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The camera turned on.
Speaker B:I think he had.
Speaker B:He thought that Leo was a very negative person, but he said the moment the camera came on, he was Jack.
Speaker B:It was like a total transformation.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But he refused to read for it.
Speaker B:Also for Rose, Gwyneth Paltrow turned it down.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Claire Danes, which is funny because Romeo and Juliet.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Winona writer.
Speaker A:Probably why she turned it down.
Speaker A:Honestly, why?
Speaker C:Nona, writer.
Speaker A:Yeah, see, I get it.
Speaker A:As again, like, she also.
Speaker A:She had also just done Little Women with.
Speaker A:With Christian Bale.
Speaker A:Like she was on the up and ups.
Speaker C:They're pairing is what they're trying to do.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Cameron.
Speaker B:So Kate Winslet.
Speaker B:He did not want Winslet.
Speaker B:He nicknamed her Corset Kate.
Speaker B:No wonder he has five wives.
Speaker A:No wonder she doesn't ever want to speak to him again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then he broke her elbow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But she actually campaigned for the role and she even called him on the phone while he was in a Humvee and said, I am Rose.
Speaker B:I don't know why you're seeing anyone else.
Speaker B:And she was.
Speaker B:She called him and harassed him and so she finally just.
Speaker B:I guess he just gave in.
Speaker C:He's like, cool, I'm in Baghdad.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Yeah, he is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm on an expedition.
Speaker B:But yeah.
Speaker B:So Anyway, it releases July 19th and it was supposed to release during summer, but it got pushed back and the press was there.
Speaker B:They were calling it Cameron's Folly was what it was nicknamed to.
Speaker B:They were comparing it to Waterworld.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:That's how negative it was.
Speaker B:Which water world gets a lot of hate?
Speaker B:I think on a rewatch, it's actually pretty good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It came out to very.
Speaker B:Dennis Hopper's crazy in that movie.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:But they expected it to be a $55 million loss.
Speaker B:That's what they were predicting.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And maybe that's why everyone went and saw it, though, was they kept just reporting on it.
Speaker A:So we've got to go see this disaster.
Speaker A:And then they fell in love with it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It opened to 28 million and it didn't.
Speaker B:It didn't open hot at all.
Speaker B:But then word of mouth and then it was number one for 15 consecutive weekends, which is a record that's never been matched.
Speaker B:Then it made $100 million in 12 days.
Speaker B:300 million in 44 days, which shattered Jurassic Park 67 day record.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then it was the first film to ever gross one billion do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So 128 million domestic tickets.
Speaker C:Damn.
Speaker B:I did okay.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I did all right.
Speaker C:Did enough.
Speaker B:Oh, and 14 Oscar nominations.
Speaker B:11 wins, which tied.
Speaker C:Been her.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:My God.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And apparently Cameron.
Speaker B:Cameron.
Speaker B:I, I didn't, I haven't watched the speech, but apparently he threw a lot of shade during his Oscar exception.
Speaker C:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he pissed off a lot.
Speaker C:No one believed in me, Kate.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And he's like, I don't care if Kate wins.
Speaker B:Was not my friend anymore.
Speaker B:Go take your shirt off again.
Speaker A:We have the B roll.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe you met a girl on a boat and she's the worst.
Speaker B:Yeah, she's the worst.
Speaker A:Grows up to be an old who throws a priceless gem into the ocean.
Speaker B:She's a liar.
Speaker B:Maybe her name's Tulip.
Speaker B:Not Rose.
Speaker B:Tulip.
Speaker B:Lily Daisy.
Speaker B:Yeah, she's a,
Speaker A:a lying, cheating, cuckolding whore.
Speaker B:And you have two and a half days to live because your boat's going to sink.
Speaker B:Go listen to Movie Wars.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do you think?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Every episode.
Speaker C:Start with Ben Hur.
Speaker B:Start with Ben Hur.
Speaker B:Start with the Northman because that's when you first came on the show.
Speaker B: The Northman and: Speaker A:That's the greatest animated movie ever made.
Speaker B:One of the worst movies I've ever seen.
Speaker B:The best one, but one of the best podcast episodes we've ever done.
Speaker C:It was fun.
Speaker B:It was fun.
Speaker B:There was a lot of tension in the room.
Speaker B:Seth got heated, I got heated.
Speaker B:It was beautiful.
Speaker A:We kissed and made up after.
Speaker A:It's all good.
Speaker B:But anyway, don't die in an icy water bath.
Speaker B:Go listen to Movie Wars.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Randos.
Speaker A:Randos.
Speaker B:James Cameron drew all that artwork himself.
Speaker B:All of Jack's artwork is James Cameron.
Speaker A:Including the, including, including Kate Winslet.
Speaker B:That's what this according to Cinema Blend.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it says that because Cameron is left handed to DiCaprio is right handed.
Speaker B:The drawing scenes were filmed and mirror flipped in post production.
Speaker B:So the artist appears right handed.
Speaker A:Huh.
Speaker B:I, I, this is.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Cinema Blend.
Speaker B:Is that real?
Speaker B:This is, I'm citing my sources here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Do you think they like saw that, like looking back?
Speaker C:Be like, he's right.
Speaker C:He's.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah.
Speaker B:James Cameron, who's just sitting around drawing.
Speaker B:He's looking at the Titanic.
Speaker A:It is funny to me like, that he put that much thought into that.
Speaker A:And yet Neil DeGrasse Tyson still gives him over the sky being wrong.
Speaker B:Yes, that's true.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And finally Cameron did concede.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:After 20, I think 23 years that the movie came out, he finally confessed that he's right.
Speaker B:That the stars are in.
Speaker B:There's a constellation that's in the wrong position in the sky.
Speaker B:And Neil DeGrasse Tyson decided to do so funny.
Speaker C:To go on a campaign nerd of his own.
Speaker B:Screw that guy.
Speaker B:Too smart for me.
Speaker B:Too rich.
Speaker B:And then the I am the king of the world was never in the script.
Speaker B:According to Screen Rant, Cameron was running out of daylight.
Speaker B:And then he fed the line to DiCaprio over a walkie talkie instead.
Speaker B:Just fucking sell it.
Speaker B:So Leo.
Speaker B:Leo was trying to listen to what he was saying on the walkie talkie, said what?
Speaker B:And then apparently Cameron just said, just fucking sell it.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's how that interaction went.
Speaker B:And so that I'm the king of the world was.
Speaker B:It's one of the worst lines in
Speaker A:film history, and yet one of the most quoted lines in film history.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's so cheesy.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Like I said I didn't see the movie till I was like, 17 or 18.
Speaker A:But at summer camp one year, our cabin, like, at the end of the week, they always have, like, your cabin, you just go off and do something, like an activity on your own.
Speaker A:Yeah, we did Titanic Day, which was we would take the canoes and sink them while we were in it.
Speaker A:But someone always had to stand at the front and yell, I'm king of the world.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:You can't get to the front of a ship like that either anymore.
Speaker A:And if you did, you get flown off.
Speaker B:One of my biggest problems with this movie is that a lot of lines are said when the ship is going down.
Speaker B:Stuff that you would just would not say ever when you're about to die.
Speaker B:Like, when she's like, this is where we first met.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, we're about to die here, so thanks for remembering.
Speaker B:You just think about you and your wife.
Speaker C:Be like, this is where we first kissed.
Speaker C:I was like, no, it's not.
Speaker C:That was just get the kids.
Speaker B:Imagine being held at gunpoint and be like, babe, this is where we first met.
Speaker A:We're gonna die.
Speaker A:Yeah, that'd be such a great moment in a comedy.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's just so unnatural to Me, some of this dialogue.
Speaker B:I just can't believe it.
Speaker B:And I don't know if it's horribly written or horribly delivered.
Speaker B:I don't Witch.
Speaker A:This is where we first met.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I was there two days ago.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We're gonna die.
Speaker B:You got any ideas?
Speaker B:Got any extra life jackets or maybe a hand warmer?
Speaker A:Maybe a second door?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:A kettle, a tea kettle.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So this is kind of an ancillary note, but Celine Dion actually recorded My Heart Will Go on in one take.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:Which queen?
Speaker B:My wife.
Speaker B:I. I don't like the song.
Speaker B:Not because I don't think she's incredible.
Speaker B:She's probably maybe the best female vocalist of all time, but I just don't like the song.
Speaker A:But overplayed.
Speaker A:It's been too much.
Speaker B:But she is incredible.
Speaker A:She kills it.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Seeing it in context, hearing the theme throughout the movie.
Speaker A:And then she started saying.
Speaker A:I was like, okay, I'll listen to the song.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:There's a reason.
Speaker A:Like, it's so beloved.
Speaker A:It's so good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:My wife's a Die Hard Celine Dion fan.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:But so originally.
Speaker B:So when Cameron was writing this, he wrote the screenplay while listening to Enya and he wanted her to compose it.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:She declined.
Speaker B:So that's when he hired.
Speaker A:And then she did Lord of the Rings.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:She did the end song for Fellowship of the Ring.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So then he hires James Horner to do the composition, and then he actually secretly composed My Heart Will Go on behind Cameron's back and arrange it with Dion in a demo without the director's knowledge.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:So which hell.
Speaker B:Yeah, we call that the.
Speaker B:James Horner is what we call that.
Speaker A:You got Hornered.
Speaker B:You got Horner.
Speaker B:The grand staircase flooding scene only took one shot and it was 90, 000 gallons of water dumped at once.
Speaker A:Insane.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's almost as much blood as markiplier used for iron lung.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker A:I think it's a hundred thousand gallons
Speaker B:of what he ended up using of corn syrup.
Speaker A:Of fake blood.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:No, real blood.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Human blood.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Please tell me it's deer blood.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just kidding.
Speaker C:Venison.
Speaker B:Squirrel blood.
Speaker B:You know how many squirrels you got to get to get 10,000?
Speaker A:Like 18 million squirrels.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's all the dead horses from Ben Hur.
Speaker B:Just pile it over there.
Speaker B:They're making another movie.
Speaker A:Like 30 years.
Speaker B:They need glue for the movie.
Speaker B:That's hysterical.
Speaker B:It's kind of like when you find out, like, you hear people in California about the water problem.
Speaker B:They Have.
Speaker B:And they tell you about how, like, it takes, like.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:Like, it's like 300 gallons of water to grow three almonds.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, yeah, that's a problem.
Speaker B:I would screw.
Speaker B:I don't like almonds that much.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you can have your almond milk latte.
Speaker C:Be like, I'm killing you.
Speaker A:Some of us need it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker A:Our tummies hurt.
Speaker B:Do you like almond milk?
Speaker A:The best milk.
Speaker A:The best.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It only takes three dead horses to make oat milk.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So you're good.
Speaker A:I like my coffee with a side of a little dead horse.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:I like to floss with the tail when I'm done.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm just gonna be real.
Speaker B:I'm not an animal hater, but I don't trust horses.
Speaker B:They just.
Speaker C:We talked about this.
Speaker A:We actually did talk about this.
Speaker A:I love horses.
Speaker C:They just.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:You don't like them either?
Speaker C:They're just like giant dogs that could kick you.
Speaker B:Is it because we're Filipino?
Speaker C:I think it is.
Speaker C:Are there a lot of horses in the island?
Speaker A:Jeepneys.
Speaker B:A lot of lizards, a lot of
Speaker C:snakes, A lot of plastic.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:See, the thing is, horses can legitimately sense and smell fear.
Speaker A:And if you come at them with a weird vibe, they return it.
Speaker B:Well, they should stop freaking me out so much.
Speaker B:They should warm it up.
Speaker B:They should.
Speaker B:They should start the conversation.
Speaker B:I don't like walking up on a horse.
Speaker B:You just.
Speaker A:Harrison Ford disagrees with you.
Speaker A:He's giving you this sour side eye.
Speaker B:I'm gonna find out what you did to my microphone.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You dirty cat.
Speaker A:How dare you, sir?
Speaker B:You know I'm pretty boy.
Speaker B:I'm just mad because he doesn't give me affection.
Speaker B:All 150 core extras received individual names and backstories from James Cameron.
Speaker B:And they were.
Speaker B:Many of them were based on Titanic passengers.
Speaker A:And he couldn't get the sky right.
Speaker B:And he personally briefed each one.
Speaker A:That's cool.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker A:I respect that.
Speaker A:I appreciate that.
Speaker B:He was probably such a dick, though.
Speaker A:Probably.
Speaker B:He's like, how can you not get this?
Speaker A:I gave it to you five hours ago.
Speaker A:You grew up in Wisconsin on a lake that hasn't been discovered yet.
Speaker A:How hard is this?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now this actually flows into my next rando.
Speaker B:And I actually.
Speaker B:I had.
Speaker B:There was a bunch of randos I could have picked, but this just.
Speaker B:This was crazy to me.
Speaker B:So this is a historical inaccuracy that came back to bite Cameron in the ass.
Speaker B:He had actually had to apologize for it.
Speaker B:That captain that shot himself and shot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That was a portrayal of someone named Officer William Murdoch.
Speaker B:And this generated a ton of backlash.
Speaker B:History wise, that man is considered a hero.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they actually have like a.
Speaker B:A day and a charity in his name in Scotland, where he's from.
Speaker B:And the film shows him accepting the bribe, shooting the passengers and committing suicide.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But he was actually a hero.
Speaker B:And so his family actually, they reached out and they basically.
Speaker B:Here's what they said, man.
Speaker B:Matt, you're gonna have to edit this.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker B:I think I have to.
Speaker B:I have come to the realization that it was probably wrong to portray this specific person as one.
Speaker B:As the one who fired the weapon.
Speaker B:That's what Cameron said about this person.
Speaker B:So he did eventually realize it.
Speaker B:He donated a bunch of money to their charity.
Speaker B:But yeah, this was.
Speaker B:I just think it's odd that Cameron would do so much work.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:To like brief extras.
Speaker C:But get that Ignacio.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then take this historical hero and then make him an absolute.
Speaker B:Like he's only in the movie for a few minutes and he's one of the biggest bags ever.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I mean, I get it.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It is supposed to portray this idea of fear in the face of certain death.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But, yeah, you could have picked literally
Speaker B:anybody or just made up a name.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Like, I didn't even know.
Speaker B:Like, I didn't even know.
Speaker B:I thought most of these people were made up anyway.
Speaker B:It's like, like.
Speaker B:But you use a real dude who was a hero and turned him into a shit bag.
Speaker B:The only person to kill an innocent civilian on this ship of people that are actually about to die.
Speaker B:And he shoots a guy.
Speaker B:That's horrible.
Speaker B:Let the guy have a few minutes before he drowns.
Speaker A:I mean, I didn't even know this was a real event, so.
Speaker B:I know, I know.
Speaker B:It was kind of weird.
Speaker B:Halfway through the film, I kind of got the sense that this boat was going down.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know about you.
Speaker A:There's something the music made me feel.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It got real tense.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The questions, the questions.
Speaker B:I. I had this written down, but I'm just going to straight up ask it.
Speaker B:I had written down, is Rose an unreliable narrator?
Speaker B:An right liar.
Speaker B:I want to replace this.
Speaker B:Is Rose.
Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:Is Rose like the worst.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:She's Young Rose.
Speaker A:Old Rose.
Speaker A:Fuck you.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:Let's list her before you guys answer.
Speaker B:Let's list.
Speaker B:Let's list just some of the things she's done.
Speaker A:Cheating.
Speaker A:Cheating.
Speaker C:Lying.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:Manipulation.
Speaker C:Manipulation to tell her story.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because she's just like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Throwing the most priceless jewel off the back of a ship because she, she's like, I'm about to die.
Speaker A:I don't care.
Speaker B:And Cal's dead.
Speaker B:It's not like if she sells it.
Speaker B:It's not like it's like, it's not.
Speaker B:It's not like doing anything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like she could feed.
Speaker B:I think I heard randomly, it's like a 500 million dollar.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It was more.
Speaker A:It was bigger than.
Speaker A:Or like more expensive than the Hope diamond at the time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was the, the theory.
Speaker C:She's a liar too, because.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:She lied to her.
Speaker C:Her granddaughter this whole time.
Speaker C:Be like, I'm sorry, don't tell your
Speaker A:grandfather, your father, don't tell your grandfather about the homeless man that I had sex with on a ship after meeting him 48 hours before.
Speaker B:This is the worst part, though, and this is a deep cut, but stick with me.
Speaker B:The ending.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:We assume she dies.
Speaker B:Like, he left it ambiguous on purpose, but we assume she dies.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we're, we're.
Speaker B:We're supposed to think that this indic scene is her going to join Jack in heaven or whatever.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:She married or at least was in a relationship with another man.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Made children.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Made grandchildren.
Speaker A:Well, she didn't make them, but they were a result.
Speaker B:They were a result.
Speaker B:And she dies and goes to heaven with this guy that she spent two and a half days with on a sinking ship.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:That poor guy.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:That poor guy.
Speaker B:She is the worst.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And she is unreliable because, like, there's a bunch of names that she gets wrong.
Speaker B:And, and this is.
Speaker B:And all you're left with.
Speaker A:She said that some dude shot himself when he never shot himself.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then those Picasso paintings were never on the boat.
Speaker B:Like, in real.
Speaker B:Now, I know it's fictionalized, but yeah.
Speaker B:In real life, those Picasso paintings never made it onto the ship.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:And there's just all these little facts.
Speaker B:And then there's another one she calls Margaret Brown Molly, a nickname that didn't exist until decades after Brown's death.
Speaker B:And so there's just all these inconsistencies.
Speaker B:Like, I think she's a lying and selfish.
Speaker B:She's the worst.
Speaker A:So she's 17.
Speaker A:Watch that.
Speaker A:James Cameron is just like, oh, yeah, it's inaccurate.
Speaker A:She just, she forgot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She just made it up.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, she's a liar.
Speaker B:This cuts into my next.
Speaker A:She's 100 years old.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This cuts into the next question.
Speaker B:Was there room on that door?
Speaker A:Oh, so this is actually.
Speaker A:Okay, I have the answer to this.
Speaker A:According to the Mythbusters, there was room on the.
Speaker B:Yes, I saw that.
Speaker A:They tested that whole thing out.
Speaker A:They got an actual size, perfect replica.
Speaker A:And actually, so technically, it's not a door.
Speaker A:It is a piece of, like, what is basically crown molding.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:It's a piece.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's a piece of a wall, basically.
Speaker A:They tested it out and were able to get both Adam and Jamie, who were both significantly heavier than either DiCaprio or Winslet, and they were able to sit on it and make it work.
Speaker A:So you.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:And that pissed.
Speaker B:That pissed Cameron off when.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Did not like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:At the end of the episode, he's like, okay, but here's the thing.
Speaker A:It's in the script, so it happened that way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's also.
Speaker B:They also could have alternated.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's pretty classic nerd, though, to be like.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker C:What it is is.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Let me live in my underworld on planet Cameron.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's so many other ways that.
Speaker A:That he could have lived.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They could have switched.
Speaker B:They could have both been.
Speaker B:She is the worst.
Speaker A:Jack, I'm cold.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:You have to stay there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think he was being selfless, too.
Speaker C:Do you think it's a combination?
Speaker A:I think she got that magic box, and he was so in love that he would do anything for her, including die because he's an idiot.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I'd hate to say it.
Speaker B:I was happy to see.
Speaker A:And I think she was just getting rid of the evidence.
Speaker C:You like to see.
Speaker B:When he started sinking down, I was like, thank God I don't have to hear him say Rose for the hundredth time.
Speaker B:So this is.
Speaker B:Here's a factoid.
Speaker B:It's not in my randos, but during the.
Speaker B:The whole movie, in the two and a half days they meet, he says the word rose 50 times to her.
Speaker C:50.
Speaker B:He says her name to her 50 times.
Speaker B:Rose.
Speaker B:Just take a practice shot over there.
Speaker B:Rose.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker B:And like, why do you keep talking?
Speaker B:No one talks like that.
Speaker C:He's just got legacy.
Speaker A:He's just trying to remind himself, I don't even like hearing my own name during sex.
Speaker A:Why are you saying her name so much?
Speaker B:So when he was finally going down in the water, I was like, thank God I don't have to hear the word Rose again.
Speaker A:My theory is she legitimately was just trying to get rid of the evidence.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She was like, oh, well, he got me pregnant.
Speaker C:I gotta.
Speaker A:Can't have this guy around.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I still think the funniest thing is, like, you know, why this boat's like, there's cars on this.
Speaker A:That's so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, what else could she.
Speaker B:I mean, there's probably some other ways she could have saved him.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, pulled over to other debris.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's literally.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, there's other debris.
Speaker B:What a dumb woman.
Speaker A:Once everyone else died, they could have just strung them together and he could have gotten on top of them.
Speaker B:Like, she was just fully content with him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just dying.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What if Paltrow didn't turn this down?
Speaker B:And what if we also got maybe McConaughey or River Phoenix?
Speaker A:Phoenix.
Speaker C:I think River Phoenix would have been a great.
Speaker A:River Phoenix would have been incredible.
Speaker B:He never did anything bad.
Speaker A:I cannot imagine fucking Matthew McConaughey.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Trying to pull this shit off.
Speaker A:Cause even in Angels in the outfield, he still's got that Texas draw.
Speaker A:Like, there's no way he's getting rid of this Texas draw while he's supposed to be in Ireland going back to America.
Speaker B:Here's the deal, Rose.
Speaker C:Don't let me on that door.
Speaker A:Look at you, rosy cheeks.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:Get on over here.
Speaker A:I'm gonna sex you big time.
Speaker B:Would have been better with paltrow.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker C:100.
Speaker B:With River Phoenix.
Speaker B:It would have.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:It would have been a completely different.
Speaker C:Like, it would have been a drama.
Speaker C:Drama.
Speaker C:Not like a laugh.
Speaker A:It wouldn't have been a soap opera.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, it would have been.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It would have felt like a movie.
Speaker B:I wonder if that's why I didn't do it.
Speaker B:Probably because he was a serious artist.
Speaker C:Yeah, he was.
Speaker A:I mean, he probably saw the script and was just.
Speaker A:Just like, eh.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker C:Well, I have to say, rose, 50 times.
Speaker B:What are they floating on?
Speaker B:And why there's no room for him?
Speaker C:I did a counter.
Speaker A:It's 52.
Speaker A:Fine, we'll cut you out.
Speaker B:I mean, I have this whole backstory in my mind now that as Rose got older, like, she joined George Bush's CIA.
Speaker B:Like, she's just.
Speaker B:She's like.
Speaker B:She's demonic.
Speaker A:Hw.
Speaker B:Hw.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Like, he's.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:She got.
Speaker B:She went on to do some bad
Speaker A:stuff because she died during the Clinton administration.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They offered her.
Speaker C:She knew too much.
Speaker B:So I only asked this because I think you guys know where I Sit on this.
Speaker B:But this is a.
Speaker B:This is a debate that I see a lot in my research.
Speaker B:Is this James Cameron's best film?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:For.
Speaker A:I'll just say that flat out, T2 is 100% his best movie.
Speaker A:There's no debate.
Speaker A:And if you do debate it, I'm sorry, you have terrible taste.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:However, on the flip side of that, I do think this might actually be his most ambitious movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I don't think.
Speaker A:I know a lot of people say Avatar was super ambitious.
Speaker C:Ambitious.
Speaker A:I don't think it's that ambitious motion capture movies had been done to a point at that time.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:It's Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves with blue people.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I do think attempting to tell a compelling story, which clearly people were compelled.
Speaker A:I was hanging out with some friends last night and I asked one of the women who was with us, I was like, do you like Titanic?
Speaker A:She was like, yes, it's not the greatest movie ever, but I do love that movie.
Speaker A:And I was like, why?
Speaker A:And she listed every reason.
Speaker A:She's like, well, the writing was really good.
Speaker A:I really connected with all of the characters, the way that they were acted.
Speaker A:And I'm like, that's literally every reason I hate this movie.
Speaker A:Yeah, is.
Speaker A:Is those things.
Speaker A:So it's really interesting that clearly it connected with people and.
Speaker A:And to set it in a two and a half day period on one ship.
Speaker A:I think it was very ambitious of him.
Speaker A:And I think from the technical side of everything, he really did pull it off.
Speaker A:Whether we agree that the script was good, clearly the rest of the world disagrees with us.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Clearly there are millions of people who thought this was amazing.
Speaker B:They love it.
Speaker A:So I can't say it's his best because I.
Speaker A:If there's enough people that don't like it, it can't be his best, but it is definitely his most ambitious.
Speaker A:I would say it's even more ambitious than T2 was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I just think with the real world applications, like being able to do those dives is pretty.
Speaker C:Like, I don't know.
Speaker C:That's what I thought was the most beautiful about this movie.
Speaker C:If I had to pick something was just like being like, wow, that is where people completely died and just perished, man.
Speaker C:And I think that with the acting and everything, I think of women too.
Speaker C:My wife likes that show the Summer I Turn Pretty, which is basically.
Speaker C:But she also likes history stuff.
Speaker C:I'm like, oh, this makes sense.
Speaker C:You take something that maybe not like most women like, which is history, and you make a love story out of it.
Speaker C:Yeah, just.
Speaker C:Yeah, I, I, but yeah, to get back to the original question, I think that I agree with, it's most ambitious.
Speaker C:I think he had the most accomplishments in terms of, like, exploration.
Speaker C:But that's, that doesn't mean it's his best film.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:It's just that he set a goal and he achieved it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I think that's perfectly said.
Speaker B:I can't say any better.
Speaker B:I think T2 is, it's a top 10 movie for me.
Speaker B:I think it's one of the greatest films ever made made.
Speaker B:I mean, the advances in CGI were so insane for that movie.
Speaker B:Like, you know, taking two days to render three seconds of cgi, like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And yet the movie, like, has so much in it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, and it was still that balance, like we talked about.
Speaker B:Like, it was back when Cameron still had this balance of, like, interesting acting, some interesting writing was in there while also being completely innovative, you know.
Speaker B:And that goes back to the abyss.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, the abyss, the original Terminator.
Speaker B:Aliens.
Speaker B:I know you don't like Aliens as much, but Aliens.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker B:It's still very entertaining.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Gorney Weaver is very convincing and it like, like Bill Paxton's fun in it.
Speaker B:Michael Bean.
Speaker B:And this is just, I just can't believe some of the cheesiness and the acting that, that, that he got away with in this movie for how well received it is and how beloved it is.
Speaker A:I will say, though, like, the style of overacting everyone was doing was very common for the 90s.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Like, this is, this is what I will 100% give this movie.
Speaker A:It defined the 90s.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:As far as the vibe and the feel of a movie there.
Speaker A:Every other time I can think of a good 90s movie, I, it, it feels like Titanic feels.
Speaker A:It gives you those warm fuzzies.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That Titanic, as much as I don't like it, it still kind of gives you that warm fuzzy feeling, even with the disaster aspect of it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, like, it, it truly defined a decade in filmmaking.
Speaker C:What was the question?
Speaker B:Oh, no, I was, I thought you were going to say something.
Speaker C:No, no, no.
Speaker C:I thought I answered.
Speaker B:Oh, no, no, I thought.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I, Yeah, you're right.
Speaker B:And it def 90s.
Speaker B:This is 90s to the max.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:Especially when it comes to romantic elements.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:I feel like Leo is 90s to the max, honestly.
Speaker A: s and: Speaker A: know he did stuff in the, in: Speaker A:But there's nothing really that memorable from him during that time period.
Speaker A: Yeah, it's really like: Speaker A:He really like had his most career defining role.
Speaker A:Trolls.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm just really mad that he never at one point went up to James Cameron and said, if I have to say Rose one more time, I'm gonna pull a Basketball Diaries and snort something.
Speaker B:Have you guys seen that?
Speaker B:Oh, it's awesome.
Speaker C:It's a great movie.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker A:I feel like Inception is really what brought Leo back to like the forefront of.
Speaker A:Of pop culture.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because he, like I said, I know he was definitely in some pretty high profile stuff leading up to Inception and Shutter island, which came out out the same year.
Speaker A:But like, I feel like that was the one that like kind of like how Bruce Willis had his career resurge after Pulp Fiction.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I feel like Inception was kind of his Pulp Fiction moment.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker B:And then he went on a crazy run.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Closer.
Speaker B:What won?
Speaker B:What lost it for you?
Speaker A:I am going to go outside of what I think the majority of people would say about what won this for me, which would be the special special effects and just the setting and everything.
Speaker A:I actually was truly drawn in by the practical sets and the music.
Speaker A:Like James Horner's score is absolutely fantastic.
Speaker A:The set design is so compelling.
Speaker A:Seeing just the.
Speaker A:The visual visceral difference between the first class area and the third class area.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker A:And then on top of that you just have the upper deck and then the engine room.
Speaker A:Like how crazy all those practical set pieces.
Speaker A:Pieces were.
Speaker A:Like, it truly is a very high scale, ambitious movie.
Speaker A:And, and, and I will also give it this.
Speaker A:I do think other than Best Script, it deserved every Oscar at one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Knowing what it was up against that year because I was actually very surprised to realize what it was up against for Best Picture.
Speaker A:Let me pull that back.
Speaker C:It was like Wag the Dog.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:It's crazy.
Speaker A:Titanic, the Full Monty, Goodwill Hunting, la, Confidential and As Good as It Gets.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It compared to those five movies, it deserved best picture, like 100.
Speaker B:As good as it get is some.
Speaker A:Is it such a better movie, you think so?
Speaker B:It's in my top 50, but.
Speaker C:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Okay, so it has a better script.
Speaker A:But did it define filmmaking the way that that it did?
Speaker B:It just had acting in it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:See that Jack Nicholson in it.
Speaker B:I mean, it had some realities.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But at the same time for me when, when the O still meant something, Best Picture wasn't necessarily that you were the best at all of these things.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:Did you.
Speaker A:Did you define something new filmmaking in this process and overall, did you have the strongest average of everything?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And compared to those, those other.
Speaker A:I think Titanic had that.
Speaker A:So I do think it genuinely deserved what it wants.
Speaker B:What lost it for you?
Speaker A:What lost it for me was the acting the most.
Speaker A:The writing was not very strong for the most part, but it really was just the acting.
Speaker A:Like I didn't notice it until you brought it up as I was watching the movie.
Speaker A:And then the more I watched it, I was like, okay, yeah, this just.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It feels like Cameron didn't.
Speaker A:Even though he had understanding of all the characters, I don't think he really like fully grasped the story.
Speaker A:Story he was trying to tell.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Anything not boat related.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Was.
Speaker B:Was up in the air.
Speaker B:Anything boat related.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Anything human related.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker C:That's what wanted for me was like, how much boat.
Speaker C:Like the details he did decide to create as historical accuracies.
Speaker C:I mean the thing that the captain is pretty bad.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But like, yeah, just like, you know, just finding out even that like he told these extras, this is your story.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like he.
Speaker C:He's a huge nerd.
Speaker C:James Cameron is just a big, big nerd.
Speaker B:King of the nerds.
Speaker C:And he proved it on this and.
Speaker C:And that won it for me because I'm also a nerd.
Speaker C:What lost for me was the script a little bit.
Speaker C:You know, I just have a hard time getting over the fact that these are 16 and 17 year olds.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And Billy Zane is so clearly in the movie 34.
Speaker C:I'm like, yeah, this is Cat of weird.
Speaker A: Welcome to the: Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:And his aggression also towards a 17
Speaker A:year old is what.
Speaker C:I lost it a little bit.
Speaker C:But I loved it at the same time because I'm like, ah, Billy's ain rules.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's bad.
Speaker C:He's losing his wife, but also she's like 17, so it's weird.
Speaker C:But those.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's what won and lost it for me.
Speaker B:Love that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What won it for me.
Speaker B:And I kind of joked about earlier, but it really is crazy watching the boat go down.
Speaker B:Like those scenes are actually like when it breaks in half and when it.
Speaker B:It starts to.
Speaker B:To be vertical and like that all was pretty cool.
Speaker B:Like, and as tragic as it really was in real life, like, it really did give me this feel like, of claustrophobia.
Speaker B:Like, like what would it actually have been like to be on that damn boat when it's vertical?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And not even that.
Speaker A:Them running through the, like, corridors when they're flooding like that.
Speaker A:Genuinely.
Speaker A:I was, like, stressed out about it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the people following and, like, hitting their heads on the corners and stuff.
Speaker B:That was the worst part, actually.
Speaker B:Like, a dude.
Speaker B:Dude, he just couldn't hold on anymore and he, like, hit his head on a corner.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker B:That's horrible.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Granted, though, at the same time, I think I'd rather die immediately like that and freeze to death in the ocean.
Speaker B:It's true.
Speaker B:Well, also, for me, I've already gone to detail, but just really, if I'm going to be really specific about the intersection of acting and writing here, you can nail it down to that one scene.
Speaker B:Jack, this is where we first met.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just bad timing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially knowing that you're gonna let that boy die.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:There.
Speaker B:And there's so many moments like that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's so many moments.
Speaker C:Well, and then they insert a sappy moment almost directly after that when he's.
Speaker C:She's looking up like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:I. I don't know.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:This movie got away with a lot for how hyped and how beloved it is.
Speaker B:There's just little cheesy moments in there where I'm like, I can't believe that Cameron.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:The man that.
Speaker B:The man that created Terminator let this cheesy dog in here.
Speaker B:Like, I just can't believe it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:At least he got away with another wife.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:All right, let's.
Speaker B:Let's do our war zone.
Speaker B:We do the cast.
Speaker B:We do directing, writing, and film composition, which is all the other things.
Speaker B:Editing, music, cinematography, choreography.
Speaker B:All those things.
Speaker A:Cast is gonna be a scotch under.
Speaker A:No, it could have been so good.
Speaker A:It, like, in theory, on paper, every single one of those actors should have done an incredible job.
Speaker A:And like, even.
Speaker A:Even Ian Gruffed, who would later go on to play Mr.
Speaker A:Fantastic in the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The Fantastic Four movies, it still, like, felt weak from him.
Speaker A:Like, I know what he's capable of.
Speaker A:I saw him play William Wilberforce in Amazing Grace, and he was compelling in that role.
Speaker A:And it's like, even.
Speaker A:Even in these moments where he was supposed to be, like, taking charge and being the guy who's taking the boat back to get everyone out, I just didn't get what I.
Speaker A:What I knew he was capable of.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So no one was so egregiously bad that I was like, it's unsalvageable.
Speaker A:The movie's watchable.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:But, yeah, it's a scotch under for me.
Speaker A:Directing.
Speaker A:I'm going to go squeeze over.
Speaker A:It's the technical marvel of everything.
Speaker A:Averages things out a little higher than the acting and writing do.
Speaker A:But with that, it's going to be a no on the writing for me.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:Too many inaccuracies, too many sacrificing good people for the sake of storytelling and drama.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I wanted more out of it.
Speaker A:I wanted a better romantic story.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And then film composition, obviously, that's the number one yes of the whole movie.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If you don't think that movie looked incredible, something's wrong with you.
Speaker A:Like every other technical aspect about it, the sound, the music, the.
Speaker A:The visuals, the cinematography, everything was perfect.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, it's a.
Speaker A:It's a hell yes for me On.
Speaker A:On film composition.
Speaker C:No unacting.
Speaker C:Just.
Speaker C:Kate Winslet was.
Speaker C:Even when I was 16, I was like, this is what women are like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I was 16 when I first watched this.
Speaker C:So I was like, ah, is this what my girlfriend's gonna turn into?
Speaker C:Because we had to go take a road trip, like, after we saw it together, so she gonna cheat on me
Speaker A:with a homeless guy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:From Scotland.
Speaker C:All places.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker B:She hears an accent, she flips out.
Speaker C:She flips out.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The directing, I. I do like the technical.
Speaker C:Like, he.
Speaker C:I just thought it was cool.
Speaker C:I did.
Speaker C:I've watched a documentary on how he created it that was good.
Speaker C:The writing is.
Speaker C:Billy Zane carried it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I just like Billy Zane.
Speaker C:He's in a stained music video and I'm wearing a stained shirt under this.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Which music video?
Speaker C:Epiphany.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C: person from that realm of the: Speaker C:Anyways.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then composition.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, it's beautiful.
Speaker C:Like, it is, like, the only thing, like, if you want to argue historical inaccuracies, it was pitch black when the vote was going down.
Speaker C:But, like, it was just so beautifully done and, like, I know a little bit of what it took to get that.
Speaker C:And I was like, yeah, this is cool.
Speaker C:Like, from a nerd standpoint.
Speaker C:And I'm like, this is pretty cool.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:So you're.
Speaker C:I'm a yes.
Speaker A:Two and two.
Speaker B:Two and two.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Half and half.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Cast.
Speaker B:Billy Zane, like you said, carried this thing.
Speaker B:A couple other actors, but just complete egregious from.
Speaker B:You know what's funny is I am such a Leo fan now.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I was a Leo fan before this.
Speaker B:I, I loved Basketball Diaries.
Speaker B:I actually was one of the few people that love Romeo and Juliet.
Speaker B:Still listen to the soundtrack and Inception.
Speaker B:Wolf on Wall street.
Speaker B:Like he's put in so many fantastic performances and I do think he is kind of our modern Brando in some ways minus the drama.
Speaker B:He's actually not dramatic at all.
Speaker C:Really.
Speaker C:That's a good comparison.
Speaker B:Besides the 19 year olds.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean at least, at least they're of age.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's quiet about that.
Speaker A:In today's world, at least they're of age.
Speaker B:At least.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:At least take it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But yeah, so that's where I'm at with Cass.
Speaker B:It's a big, big no in terms of writing.
Speaker B:It's a big no.
Speaker B:I, I hate to say that but not only is, is it just bad acting, but it's bad dialogue, bad lines deliver badly.
Speaker B:And I also wanted a little more, I think today if they would have remade this, I think Jack would have been maybe more troubled.
Speaker B:I think, I think that Rose would have been a little more dimensional.
Speaker B:She's, she just comes off as so brat.
Speaker B:Such a brat.
Speaker B:And she is supposed to be I think a little bit of a brat.
Speaker B:I think that's built in.
Speaker B:But, but some of her decision making paired with the old, the old version of hers.
Speaker B:Narration of it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is, it's just unbearable to me.
Speaker B:But Jack would have been much, much more interesting had he.
Speaker B:I mean it's so weird that he's like this poor nomad.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Who can draw like a madman and apparently every woman in Paris wanted him to draw her.
Speaker B:He's like, oh, that's a one legged prostitute.
Speaker B:It's like, man, like I don't know.
Speaker B:I just don't.
Speaker A:I got a tattoo artist buddy who does that exact same thing but with tattooing.
Speaker A:And yeah.
Speaker B:Draws prostitutes.
Speaker A:I mean not quite, but almost.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he, he tattoos the prostitutes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's the thing.
Speaker A:It tracks.
Speaker A:Everyone wants to him.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe there's, maybe he's, there's a Jack type out there.
Speaker B:Well, don't let him go on any ships.
Speaker A:Big bad boy right there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well don't let him go on any ships.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's going to be bad for him.
Speaker A:Steal your girlfriend.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I've seen, I've seen Cameron do better writing and then directing.
Speaker B:I'm gonna to fall in line on that with you guys.
Speaker B:Like, I do think you cannot overlook the technical marvel.
Speaker B:And if James Cameron's anything, he's an innovator.
Speaker B:He does have his own planet.
Speaker B:He's very much.
Speaker B:He very much has changed film, basically.
Speaker B:For a while there, it felt like every film he made moved the needle not just a little bit, but in a drastic way.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:He kicked it off the map.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And he does that here.
Speaker B:I mean, it's sad that it's at the expense of acting and dialogue and good performances and interesting characters that don't annoy the piss out of you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But you cannot deny how amazing.
Speaker B:And again, I don't.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:The first time I said it was tongue in cheek, but now I'm being real like that when the ship starts to go down, it is.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:I do enjoy from that point onward.
Speaker B:And it's just crazy to watch.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's awesome and it's beautiful.
Speaker B:It's beautifully shot.
Speaker B:Oh, film composition.
Speaker B:I did have one thing I wanted to say.
Speaker B:I don't know if you noticed this.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I don't always notice it, but.
Speaker B:What's with all the cross dissolve edits early?
Speaker B:I hate them.
Speaker A:It was the 90s.
Speaker A:It was a thing.
Speaker A:And it's not that I owe dissolves.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Did you notice them?
Speaker C:I did, yeah.
Speaker C:That is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't always hate them, but I don't know if it was the speed or how long they took to resolve, but like they were so noticeable.
Speaker B:I don't know, maybe I was just already annoyed if it was a choice.
Speaker A:I mean, it's kind of like the white.
Speaker A:The white fades with Star Wars.
Speaker A:Like, it's just, it's, it's.
Speaker A:It was an artistic choice.
Speaker A:It was a product of the time.
Speaker A:I'm sure it was.
Speaker A:Was tolerable then.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was a little much.
Speaker B:Now, I didn't like those crosses.
Speaker B:I know that's really specific.
Speaker B:But they were noticeable to me.
Speaker B:I was like, why.
Speaker B:Why are we still in the middle of this fade?
Speaker A:I will say the original, the first one, where it goes from the wrecked ship to the, the.
Speaker A:The brand new ship.
Speaker A:That was cool.
Speaker B:That was cool.
Speaker A:That was cool.
Speaker B:That was cool.
Speaker B:But that was more of a warp.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was kind of more of a time warp effect.
Speaker A:But it was still.
Speaker A:I mean, technologically, it was still a simple cross.
Speaker B:Okay, well, interesting.
Speaker B:Well, that's a good use of it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Job.
Speaker B:It's beautifully shot.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The technology is amazing.
Speaker B:So I'll probably line up right with you guys with two and two.
Speaker B:It's, it's.
Speaker B:It's probably.
Speaker A:I think that's fair.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker B:I mean, it's a marvel.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and it's interesting, too, that it's technically genre wise, you would say this is a disaster film that's kind of mixed with romance.
Speaker B:And this kind of gets.
Speaker B:This doesn't get mixed in with other disaster movies, though.
Speaker B:Like, you know, Twister came out around this time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:All those.
Speaker B:That massive run.
Speaker B:Dante's Peak.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like, we had a good solid eight years.
Speaker A:Can you imagine comparing this to San Andre?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's like, in that.
Speaker B:It's in that genre.
Speaker B:It's so weird to me that they call it that.
Speaker B:Like, I wouldn't call it.
Speaker B:Especially because it's based on something like, real.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That happened, you know, and obviously it was a disaster, but I guess.
Speaker B:I guess the iceberg was a big problem.
Speaker B:I guess it was a huge.
Speaker B:It was a disaster anyway.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Well, that ship went down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was right hard.
Speaker B:I anticipated that it would, and I was right in half.
Speaker A:And it's just laying there a lot.
Speaker B:But Leo survived.
Speaker B:Kate Winslow survived.
Speaker B:They all survived.
Speaker B:And they all have thriving careers.
Speaker B:Like us.
Speaker B:Yeah, like us.
Speaker B:Anyway, thanks for hanging out with us.
Speaker B:I wouldn't go on a boat anytime soon.
Speaker B:Love y'.
Speaker A:All.
Speaker B:I'm Kyle.
Speaker A:I'm Seth.
Speaker C:And I'm John.
Speaker A:See you next time, Rose.
