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Stepping Out of Shame and Guilt with Andrew Finnefrock
Episode 924th March 2021 • The Becoming the Big Me Podcast • Djemilah Birnie
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In today's episode of the Becoming the Big Me Podcast I have with me today Andrew Finnefrock. Andrew is a performance coach, founder of the C4 Method, and recovering addict. Andrew shares his "aha" moment where he finally realized he was an addict while in rehab and how he has been able to step out of the guilt and shame from his past in order to create a positive impact on the world today.

https://www.andrewfinnefrock.com/

https://www.facebook.com/andrew.finnefrock

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Hi! I am your host Djemilah Birnie of www.becomingthebigme.com . I have been building businesses online since the age of 17. When I discovered the power that we hold within our own minds my world truly began to change.

I love to write and have published some books, some of them have even hit some charts 😲 You can check them out here http://bit.ly/djemilahbooks

Ready to start playing BIG and step into your Big Me potential by harnessing the power of your mind? Then make sure you join the free Rewire challenge to get all the tools you need! https://www.djemilah.com/rewirechallenge

Don't forget to check out the little lady's podcast "A Kid's Perspective" where she answers your questions on all of life's most pressing issues, in her eyes, a kid! http://bit.ly/akidsperspective


Let's Connect! #allthelinks ⬇


https://djemilah.com/


https://www.facebook.com/djemilah/


https://www.instagram.com/mimi.the.genie/


https://www.tiktok.com/@djemilah

Transcripts

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Alright, let's go. Hey, you guys, it's Djemilah. Welcome ba

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k to The becoming the big e podcast. I have with me he

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e today, one of my absolu e favorite people. Andrew Fi

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n brought from the mental weal h project on Andrew husband, o

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e of my really great friends ov r the past couple of years. B

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t he's actually now one of y coaches, and I have grown

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o just really, really have a l t of respect for Andrew, he's be

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n through so much. He's on h s journey of sobriety a

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d recovery. And the biggest thi g about Andrew, you guys is y

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u will never meet a man that h s as much heart as Andrew doe

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. And so, Andrew, welcome to t e show. I'm so happy to have y

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u here. And I'm really, real y excited for the knowledge th

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t you're about to drop because I know that you're going to ha

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e some amazing nuggets you alwa s do. I cannot miss t

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e conversation with you that y u do not drop some fir

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Well, thank you so much for having me. And congratulations

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on everything that you've done as well. Like it's been really

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cool to watch you grow the people, you're inspiring the

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businesses you're doing. And you also don't do anything half

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assed, you do everything with your full heart. So

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congratulations to you for that.

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Thank you. I appreciate that. So Andrew, I know that you have

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become very vulnerable with your story. And that has been a big

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thing that I really respect you or is your vulnerability and,

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and this podcast that becoming the big big podcast is all about

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stepping into the greater version of yourself each and

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every day. And I hold the belief that there's never a time that

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we have a right that we have arrived to a place it's always a

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journey and we're always becoming but I do want to kind

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of just go back a little bit for you and just hear a little bit

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of your backstory and how you came to be the man that you are

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today.

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Yeah, and before I do that, I want to say I want everybody

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here this for people that are trying to find out who they are.

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Do you find out who you are in your vulnerability If you're not

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being vulnerable, you're never gonna find out who you are. So,

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just about me, you know, it's crazy. Every time I get asked

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this, like, you know, I'm an over analyzer too. I'm like, how

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far do I go back? How much details you know, but you know,

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really important things about me is a little bit me as a kid is I

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always cared about people. My mom said, you know, growing up,

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when we lived out in the country that I ran up to her one time

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and said, You know, I, I know what I want to do when I grow

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up. And, and I told her that I wanted to build houses for

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people that couldn't afford it. And, you know, I also grew up

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with a bunch of, you know, there were some intense situations,

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you know, my growing up with my family wasn't like everybody

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else's. Or maybe it was like a lot of people's but I just grew

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up a lot differently, I had to think a lot differently. I did.

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You know, there was a lot of arguing and a lot of, you know,

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a lot of verbal abuse. So, you know, I always went through

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school, just with that heart that you were talking about. And

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I cared about people. In fact, whenever other kids would make

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fun of other kids, I was always wondering why they would do it.

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I mean, I understood how it worked. Like, like, I

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understood, they were trying to hurt somebody else, but I never

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understood why I just never really had the intent to try and

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hurt anybody. Now for further in my story, I end up hurting

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myself a lot. But, so that was kind of just me, just the real,

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genuine kid growing up, and I let people walk on me and I

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didn't have a lot of self confidence. And so that was, you

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know, when I got into middle school is really when my

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insecurities and, and self worth and everything really just just

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hit the floor. I remember. And I've actually never shared this

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the first day of sixth grade. You know, I got in the car with

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my mom said, How was it and I just broke down because some of

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my friends that I had had in fifth grade turned on me. And I

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didn't have anywhere to sit on in during sixth grade. And it

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was a really hard time. And for the first half of sixth grade,

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it was really, really rough. You know, when I was on Adderall,

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which made me or no Ritalin at the time, which made me

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extremely socially awkward and nervous. And it really, really

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put a magnifying glass in all my, my read or already had

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insecurities. And so I had a rough time in school growing up.

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And you know, I did eventually get some good friends and you

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know, some friends also that made fun of me, that took

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advantage of me. And then I go into high school. And you know,

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I was good at sports. I had a lot of natural talent. And so I

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was a baseball player. And so that got me in with a really

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popular crowd. But I was still the person who got made fun of

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in the popular crowd. You know, I still continuously didn't

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stand up for myself and I struggled with school. I growing

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up, they were always testing me to see where my intelligence is

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out in the intelligence was always really high. But my

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grades never reflected it. And so in high school, I barely

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graduated. And then I got out of high school and I I moved

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actually to Ohio, because I met a girl on AOL. And I was doing

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online any way before it was ever cool. And so I moved to

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Ohio. And of course, I was in no shape to be a partner to a girl

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at that time. And I was insecure. And of course it

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didn't go well. So that was a traumatic experience. For me. It

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was the first time I really really hardcore, fell in love.

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And I kind of came back to Tulsa, where I live with my tail

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between my legs and started working in retail. And I met a

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guy there that was trying to start a band. And I had a drum

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set and I drummed and learned how to drum growing up and I got

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into playing professional music for a few years from like 2002

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to maybe 2007 on and off. And really enjoyed that. I mean that

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was one of my favorite things to do. Music is a passion of mine.

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I tried to kind of get through this quick and then I played

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professional music I then got out of professional music, I

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made an attempt to go into the Coast Guard and serve I passed

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my flight physical but then I ended up getting declined

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because of like an oversized left ventricle and in some some

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condition I mean I actually was weird I passed my flight

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physical with the Air Force medical staff but then when they

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sent the Coast Guard they still declined it.

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And then so at that point in time I'd made the decision I had

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so much pressure always to do the next thing Why am I not

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doing this? Why am I not doing this? My dad was so hard to me

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you need to be doing that you need to be doing that. And I was

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working for Best Buy at the time doing home, home theater

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automation installations. And I was making decent money and I

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thought for the first time I'm just going to take some time do

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this job and kind of just be okay to coast for a little

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while. And and at this point in my life I wasn't a big drinker.

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I like to drink and stuff and I did party a lot whenever I

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played professional music, but never really took control of my

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life. So I did that for a few years. And then I got let go on

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my job there. And then I ended up working for a communications

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company. And I did so well at one of the jobs there and sales,

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I got promoted to the business sector. And I did okay. But then

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right around that time is where my addiction and alcoholism

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really took over. I got prescribed Xanax, because I was

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having some anxiety. And that's when everything started

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dwindling for me. And my drinking started taking over.

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And that's let's fast forward to where I made the big decision.

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You know, there's so much behind that story about going out

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making an ass of myself, and, you know, just just drinking, I

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was never like an angry person that fought, I just was like, a

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just a drunk, and I love to do drugs. And, you know, no matter

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what the drug was, I do it. And but, so I remember, you know, it

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was around, it was 2013. And I remember I was sitting on my

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dad's fireplace, and we were talking and he said, I just

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carried on and on and on for a long time. And eventually, I

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said, You know what, maybe I should get some help. And when I

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didn't know what the time is, my family was kind of in the

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background, maybe trying to plan an intervention, or how do we

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approach them, so everybody else saw it. And I'm thankful that

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they didn't do that. Because I personally, in my opinion, I'm

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against interventions, I don't think that they're always

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effective. I think they remove the one foundational security

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that addicts alcoholics have. But anyway, so I made the

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decision. And at this time, I wasn't convinced I was an addict

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or an alcoholic, I was just like, you know what, like, I'm

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gonna go to treatment, get a 30 day time out and, you know, get

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just get a break from life. And so I made the decision to go,

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and I go to treatment. And the first two days were pretty easy,

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because my withdrawals hadn't kicked in. And so the reason I'm

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fast forwarding to this part is this is where all the pivotal

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moments and the big lessons in my life happened. And so I was

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in treatment, and I was in a room where they, you know, said

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for me to go, and I'm sitting at the back of the room, and I have

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an attitude. I'm, I'm entitled, I think, Oh, I work for I'm an

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account executive for a communications company, I don't

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belong here. I'm not one of them. Some guy was speaking and

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you hear me say a lot, the F word saved my life. And some guy

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starts cussing, so I start paying attention to him. And

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because I was paying attention to him, he said, Guys, this is

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going to get you to jails, institutions, or death. And I

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remember like, boom, immediately, my brain was like,

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Oh, he's not talking to you. And I disqualified myself from that.

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Yeah. Because I've never been arrested. That's like, that has

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to be a spiritual God thing in itself. I mean, I've never been

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handcuffed. And I've been arrested, I've driven drunk, and

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I've done drugs, broken the law and all that stuff. Never been

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caught, right. And so I immediately was like,

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well, this guy's not talking to me. And the best thing that's

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ever happened to me in my life happened.

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This guy walked up to me, and he could see it on my face. And he

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walked up and said, the five words that will forever have

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changed my life. He said, you're in a fucking institution, and

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looked me right in the eye and just boom. Because the treatment

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facility is an institution, it's a mental institution. And a lot

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of people sometimes contextualize that, like that I

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was just in an institution of denial and so forth. But I was

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literally in an institution. Yeah. And I remember thinking

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Holy shit. And I couldn't believe like, how blatantly

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obvious it was, where I was, but how much I believed that I

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wasn't. Well, I was fascinated with that.

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That's the thing with with this disease is that when you are in

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it, you can't see it's only disease, like you said, that

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tells you that you don't have it. Right, like when you are in

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your mind will do anything you possibly can to this to distort

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and justify reality, to align with you not having a problem.

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Yes. And that is something that I just feel like it's so

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important for others to understand, especially if you

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are dealing with an addict in your life is the chances are,

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they do not see what you see. So maybe everyone else. Yeah, and

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just like you, Andrew, where everyone around, you could see

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the problem. I mean, it was the same situation for me, everyone

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around me could see it. I'm like, No, you guys are the

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Bravo. Right. And that's what we do. Yeah.

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You know, we need to do a whole other show about that. Because,

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I mean, there's a lot to unpack there. And, you know, there's a

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lot of people that would say, Oh, it was a choice, you know,

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why'd you choose to do that and it's not that simple and And you

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can only understand it if you've been on both sides of it. I've

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been on that side where like, it's just as believable. And I

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do a speech about this, that two plus two equals five. Because

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whenever like, I would do my bad behaviors or addiction, alcohol

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and behaviors. Like it was just as simple as that. If I say two

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plus two, your brain says four without even you questioning it,

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in those thoughts to make those decisions that most people think

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are bad decisions and are bad decisions. Is that real, and

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that believable in those moments? That it's like, go

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drink, go do drugs, go shoot up, go snort cocaine, whatever, like

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it's believable. And so, I mean, we could talk about that for

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hours. So I just would say, for anybody listening, for anybody

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listening, if you do know, an addict, or an alcoholic, or

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someone like, I want you to think about that, in the

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majority of all cases, they're not choosing to have a miserable

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life. They just don't know that it's that miserable, and they

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really don't know what to do. So anyway, I'll get back to my

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story. So, at that point in time, I just was like, holy

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shit. Like if I if that's one thing that I don't know, what

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else is it that I don't know about myself? And that's when I

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became ready to receive information. That's when I

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became ready to learn. And from that point on, I was at least

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willing to listen, I wasn't fully convinced. But I at least

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what knew that there was something wrong in my thinking.

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And that's what's so fascinating is there was every sign around

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me. I mean, it was so blatantly obvious that it took that one

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statement to get me to think about it, but it was there was

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everything around me. No friends, I mean, drinking a full

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glass of vodka to go to sleep, you know, doing so much cocaine

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that I would, would pray because I thought I was going to

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overdose because even at the time, I didn't even believe in

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God. And I was too selfish to believe in God. But when I

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thought I was gonna overdose, you bet your ass myself or self

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was like, Oh, I'm gonna pray now. Anyway. So there was tons

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of things around me, they just were so obvious that that they

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was right in front of me. Okay, so

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the funny thing is like, that's, that's how our brains work.

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Right? Like, like confirmation bias, our our brains will

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literally go out and seek the information that backs up what

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we hold as truth. While we hold deepest truths to ourselves. If

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we don't believe that we're adding, our brain will go out

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and find any information that it can possibly piece together to

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show us that we're not. And then you switch, if the same thing

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happens and what you did it sounds like that that man coming

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up to you, and speaking that to you, it all it did was it opened

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the it opened the question. So it wasn't such a hard set belief

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like, oh, maybe there is and more information just started to

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leak in?

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Yes. I mean, like we experienced it on clubhouse last night,

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there was an individual that was just trying to argue with

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there's so much and create the narrative that they wanted to

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believe. And anyway, there was so much irony in that situation

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as I now think about it, but so you'll make keep going or Yes.

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Okay, cool. So that was the really big first pivotal moment.

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And the lesson I learned there is there's a big difference

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between being honest with yourself and the truth. And so,

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my withdrawals hadn't hit at that point. And so about one or

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two days later, later, later, my withdrawal started kicking in.

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And to be honest, if I would have known how bad my

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withdrawals were gonna be, I would not have gone to

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treatment. I was like, Ah, you know, so I assumed heroin

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withdrawals were the worst, but I was withdrawing from Xanax

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alcohol, and just tons of that fake synthetic pot. And so my

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withdrawal, start hitting and I've tried to articulate him.

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I've tried to explain them to people, and they're

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unexplainable, but I'll try and do it justice again. It is in

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was the most physical aching pain, like the flu times 100 the

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anxiety and mental struggle like impending doom times 100 I went

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temporarily blind because my eyes are dilated so much, I was

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profusely shaking, like I had Parkinson's or something like

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that. I was just shaking, I just looked terrible. And so I was in

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the treatment facility, and I'm such an overachiever, because I

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was the one in treatment that was withdrawing the absolute

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worst. I was literally the guy like if you were to walk into

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that room, like all these people withdrawing in bad shape, like,

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I'm not as bad as that fucking guy. Like, that was me. And so I

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was tired of being judged, or at least what what I was perceiving

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as judgment. That could have been my projections, but I was

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just I was exhausted. So I go into the bathroom. And I'll tell

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you how I experienced it at the time and then tell you what I

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think really happened. But I was I went to the bathroom and I was

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just wanting a break from being judged and I was thinking to

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myself, I can't believe how This is and I was having to count

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five seconds at a time just to survive like, Can I survive this

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another five seconds. It was the worst mental and physical pain

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I've ever experienced in my life. And it was the hardest

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thing I've ever had to go through and will be the hardest

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thing that I've ever had to get through. And I remember this, I

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was standing in that bathroom just like it was yesterday. And

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I looked over in the last thing I saw, I saw this let go and let

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God sign. And this isn't really such a significant spiritual

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thing. It was just the last thing that I saw. And then I

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looked in the mirror, and I could see it. For the first

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time, I can see my swollen face, my red face, how pathetic I

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look, my sadness, the misery, just all the pain. And I looked

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at myself and I got emotional and started crying. And I

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thought, holy shit, Andrew, you are in bad shape. And it hit me

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how bad I was. And this is where I got the gift that I think not

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everybody gets the gift to receive. But it hit me because

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when I walked into that bathroom, I was the victim. I

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was blaming other people, I was saying why I was around

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alcoholism, I was verbally abused. I had this type of

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growing up, excuse excuse victim victim, I was the victim. In all

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of a sudden, I thought to myself, alright, Andrew, you're

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here because of all the thoughts, decisions and actions

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you've made. This is because of what you've done, Andrew, nobody

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else did this. And it just hit me. I was like, You know what?

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It may not be my fault. I'm here. But it sure as fuck is my

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responsibility to get out of it. And I thought I'm the one that

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made all the thoughts, decisions and actions to get myself here.

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And I'm going to be the one who gets myself out of it. And that

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happened in a matter of minutes.

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And isn't that just like the most heavy yet liberating

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thought and experience right there? Because not only Yes, it

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is your responsibility that that you have come to that place, and

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you've come to that point that you are at. But guess what does

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that mean? You have the ability to change that. And that's what

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I think is so powerful, because you did. So yes, I would love

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for you to dive into, into that part into now you had that

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realization, the awareness, you have a woken to to yourself,

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right? That's really all that happened. It was an awakening to

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your own self and who you were and how you were to be. And from

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that moment,

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carry on.

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Oh, yeah. So and I'm going to sidestep for a second, because

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this is something I'm so passionate about. There's so

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many people out there that are stuck, and they don't know it.

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They don't even realize that they're blaming other people and

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their brain gives them all these excuses to where, why they can't

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succeed, why they can't move forward. And I was one of those

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people. And this is the reason I do what I do. Because I want

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someone to have that aha moment like I did. And if you're

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listening, I want you to pay attention. Because if you're

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someone who's stuck, and you're blaming other things, and you

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think it's, it's someone else's fault, or some other

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environments fault, I want you to really think about this,

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because what you're really admitting is if it's someone

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else's fault, someone else's, or some other experience or some

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other situation outside yourself that you're where you're at,

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then what that means is you can't do a fucking thing about

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it, it means that you're stuck. And that other situation is

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going to be the only thing that can get you out of it. So

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there's so much beauty and so much power in saying Yes, it's

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me. Yes, it's my decisions. Yes, it's everything I've done.

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Because that means you can get yourself out of the situation,

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when we blame an outside situation. And that means we

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give the power to the outside situation, that we can't do it

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unless that thing place or whatever it is, makes a change.

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And that's not the truth. And so I get very passionate about

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that, because I don't want any human to spend one more second

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longer than they have to stuck in that mindset. Because it was

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miserable for me. And I feel like I've gotten the gift to see

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the other side of it.

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And I absolutely love that passion and Andrew because it's

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something that you have, that you have lived in. And you see

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how taking that ownership has transformed your life. I mean,

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that was something that we were discussing in that in that room

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was was calling, taking on the ownership and the title of the

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name, attic. Like that's something that we wear with

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pride because that awareness is so crucial to our sobriety and

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grow. And yeah. And that just and I feel the same passion. I

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love that passion and that fire behind that because it's real.

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And then that's the heart And guys, that's exactly what I was

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telling the beginning of this is this is Andrews heart coming

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through all of that passion that comes through from him. That's

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love. And that's how he shows his love because it's the truth

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and that's really how how you do transform your life and I know

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that Andrew really does want to help as many people transform

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their lives and that's why You see that that fire coming

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through. And that's why you're that.

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I appreciate that. And, and I appreciate you bring that up,

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you know, I only know how to help people the way that I was

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helped. And I want even if I upset somebody or piss them off

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like that means I hit an emotion. And the guy that said,

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you're in a fucking institution, you think I liked hearing that

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at first? No, I hated the guy for it. But now he's probably

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the most important I don't even know his name, know who he is.

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But he's probably most influential guy in my life. You

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know, and if the listeners are probably thinking, Well, what

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happened on clubhouse last night, someone came into one of

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our rooms just to contextualize. And they were trying to tell us

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and us being me, you and some other addicts and alcoholics

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that have turned it into success, that they don't see us

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as addicts and alcoholics. And they were trying to tell us how

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to feel about us. And the simple answer to that is we were

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stating the fact that we can't solve a problem that we don't

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understand to exist. And honestly, I've said this before,

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if I had to identify as a worthless piece of shit, to get

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the results that I had, I don't give a shit what I have to say

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about myself, right? Because I've learned that in my

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humility. Now, and I want to make sure I'm not saying that I

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smell cogs are worthless pieces of shit. I'm just saying that I

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don't care what I have to admit to own what's on my side of the

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street, because that's where the results happen. And honestly,

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the, the stronger and more fucked up your past is, the more

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people respect you because it creates contrast, like if I just

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didn't drink my whole life, it wouldn't be very interesting.

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Right? Like,

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everybody gets so stuck in the guilt and shame about their

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past. And that's the most powerful part of their life,

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because it gives you the opportunity, opportunity to show

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people who the fuck you are. Right. So like I say, the

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stronger the judgment, the more they remember you when you prove

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them wrong. Anyway,

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well, that's something that, you know, when these kinds of things

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come up, when when people feel offended by something that you

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say exactly what you're saying, Andrew, as far as the emotions

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that come up, I want you to ask you this, would you feel an

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emotion? If you 100% fully believe that it wasn't true?

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Well, no, you would not. You would not feel over here and

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saying, Andrew, you have purple hair, and I'm like trying to

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make fun of it. You're You're not going to take anything I'm

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saying seriously, because you know, for 100% fat, that's not

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true. But if I know I just be glad that you saw that I

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had hair. But if I'm

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if I'm saying something that there's some underlying

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somewhere questioning, Oh, um, then you're you're going to,

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you're going to feel that and you're going to have your eye on

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that hold on a second. Am I did I just lose my video?

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Yeah, that's okay. We can keep jamming. Yeah, let's just keep

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rolling. Um, and so that being said, it's it's really important

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to me that people understand that when I was on a podcast a

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couple years ago, I remember the gentleman saying, Andrew, when

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you get that feeling to shut down or not share that fear.

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That's when you lean in, that's when you lean in, and you really

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overshare. And I'll never forget that because that ties, so true

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to what you're saying that like, if I've offended somebody, or

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I've upset somebody, it's not me, it's that I hit a nerve. And

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when you hit a nerve, that means it's something to explore. Now,

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there's a difference in someone insulting you, and just being an

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asshole. Someone's saying something that gets you to have

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an emotional reaction, the people that are successful that

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I know, including you and myself, when someone upsets me,

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I think why did that upset me? And let's explore that some

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more. So,

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honestly, you are so you showcase this so much, just in

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your being just as being your friend. I know, there's been

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multiple occasions where you contacting me after a

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conversation just to verify and just to like clear things up,

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because maybe sometimes, in our conversation get a little more

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heated sometimes or you know, whatever direction they go, but

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you will always contact like, you have that self awareness

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afterwards. Like, Oh, wait, maybe that was perceived in you

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know, x way. So that's something that I just think is really

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powerful, because it's something that you showcase every day. Not

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only are you talking about it, but you live it every single

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day.

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Yeah, well, thank you for that. And same for you. So I'll kind

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of get back to the story. I realized that I was the person

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that could get myself out of the situation. It was very

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empowering for a couple reasons. Because if you're listening and

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you're in a situation and you feel hopeless, and you feel like

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there's nowhere to go or you're stuck, pay attention because

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this is what's so cool about it. Whenever I was in that moment, I

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had heard that that synthetic pot made people have permanent

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damage. I actually had believed that I was permanently messed up

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and then Whenever I had to realize that I had to admit that

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I was an addict or an alcoholic, and please, listeners, if you're

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listening, if you're like, Well, I'm not an addict and alcoholic,

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please contextualize this to your life. Because as soon as I

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admitted that I was an addict or an alcoholic, like, right, when

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I had that moment that like, I'm going to be the one that gets

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myself out of it. I didn't admit I had a problem, I found the

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solution.

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Right?

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I'm gonna say that, again, I, it wasn't so much about admitting

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the problem. Because when you find a problem, that means

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there's a solution on the horizon. But if we're denying

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the problem, denying what's really in front of us, and

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denying the real situation that's in front of us, we can't

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solve a problem that we don't understand to exist. So from

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that point forward in that bathroom. And the other side of

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that was, I feel like I walked into that bathroom to give up,

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looking back. And that's where I feel like God said, I'm not done

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with you. Because I had such a spiritual transformation of how

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I perceive the situation. And that's just really important to

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me, because I am faith based. And I do believe God intervened

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in my life, whether it's you guys believe the universe, or

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whatever it is, I believe there was an intervention. And I

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believe I am here to help other people walk through life and

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have just huge changes in their life. And that's what I've done.

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So from that point on, I made the decision to to just say, all

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right, my thinking is not right, I'm going to listen to other

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people and let them kind of tell me exactly what I need to do.

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Because it's time for me to learn and stop just being left

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to how I think I need to do things. So that was where I

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learned how to learn a lesson. And so I started doing what they

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said, You know, I get out of treatment. And I was working as

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an account executive at that technology company. And I really

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didn't have a lot of I wasn't very successful with that job, I

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didn't have a lot of production, or er, didn't have a lot of

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production. I wasn't selling a lot, because obviously I wasn't

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alone, my addiction and stuff. But a job came across for me to

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start getting into capital equipment sales, selling CNC

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machines, and it was a great opportunity. And I got into it,

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it was awesome. I got to travel to Germany to Japan, and you

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know, really do high level sales and entertain clients, it was so

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much fun, it was right up my alley, and I was I was really

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good at it. I knew nothing about the technology. But you know,

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that's a lot about what I teach in my sales, because I sold a

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lot just based on relationships, and being honorable. And I

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remember when I got my first one point million to $1.1 million

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Po, I was like, wow, I did seven figure sales in one Po, you

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know, it was so cool. And so I did that job. And I had success

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at it. And in the beginning of 2016, the oil business went

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down. And the main market where I was selling was in Oklahoma,

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which is mostly oil and gas manufacturing. And so they had

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to let one person go, I even had more production, but they let me

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go because I was the I was the more inexperienced person and so

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there's no bitterness there. If I would have been the boss, I

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would have let me go and kept the other guy, he had way more

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experience. And it was the right business decision. And I got I

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was in a really toxic relationship at that time. So I

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had a lot of commission checks coming in. So I was like, I'm

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going to take a timeout, and I'm going to work on me. So I

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started getting into fitness, I started just really diving

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internally and doing more work on myself. And at the end of

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2016 I got into real estate investing, I met a gentleman who

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saw something in me and you know, we made money. It was fun.

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And as I was thinking about this before I've talked today, the

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majority of my sobriety has been in entrepreneurship. You know, I

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got out of the corporate world, and I got out the corporate

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mindset at the same time. I know I had to become an entrepreneur,

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my sobriety and our entrepreneurial my life. So

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I think that's really interesting. Andrew, that, that

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you say that because when before you said that I hadn't actually

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thought of it in that way myself. But same same here. Um,

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I had when I was working at varizen, I had relapsed and I

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was using again I was doing a lot of cocaine and steam, you

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know, corporate structure sit corporate sales structure. And

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when I left that position, I left that position I gave up my

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cushy salary. I was 18 years old, the youngest manager of a

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Verizon store, making you know, six figures making really good

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money, but I was using and I was my I had, my daughter was born I

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had a full time nanny. I never saw her because I was working so

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much. And, um, but when I left when I made the decision to

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leave that structure, it was because I was making In the

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decision to choose my sobriety again, and I had to change my

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environment, and that's when I dove back into entrepreneurship.

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It was the second time that I was building business. I think

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that's a very interesting point. Because I do see a lot of

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recovering addicts who do dive into entrepreneurship. And I

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think part of it, I don't know, I would love to hear your

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thoughts on this. But I feel like part of it is because we do

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need to have something that we're working towards. And we do

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need to have like that busy, that busy work almost to keep

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our minds distracted. And for me doing something to serve others

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that can really benefit the world and help others helps keep

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me on my path. What do you I'm curious what your thoughts are?

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I completely agree. I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as

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busy work but productive, we need to feel like we're

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advancing, pushing the needle forward. You know, I, as I'll

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get into my story, you know, I experienced some debt. And then,

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you know, I've worked my way out of it. And I don't feel any

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different. Right? Now, I am extremely proud of what I've

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done. But my relationship with money has changed so much. But I

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think you're right. I mean, people like us. And that's why

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most people, if they're listening, if they feel out of

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alignment, they're just really not doing what they want to do.

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Right. And we feel stuck. And, you know, I remember even when I

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was working through my debt, like my routine was on point.

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And I was so passionate, because I had this realization. That,

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because I was really down on myself for about six months. I

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was like, because I, you know, I wanted to get into coaching and

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consulting and what I'm doing now. And

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I was really hard on myself. And I thought, okay, Andrew, like, I

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created this environment in my head of so much shame, guilt,

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like, I'm not good enough, like, I can't coach. And then I

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thought to myself, when's the last time I really had a hard

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situation and what happened? And I thought, well, when I went and

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got sober, I thought, well, what happened? I was like, I came out

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better, stronger, and more successful than 99.9% of the

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other people. And then boom, I had that realization, I was

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like, I'm not a bad business guy. I just had no money

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literacy, I was great at negotiating. I was great making

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money, I was great. I mean, I have all this business

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knowledge. And I have all this proven success. I just had the

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skill of spending money like an idiot. And so I realized that I

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broke it down most people guilt and shame themselves for the

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whole picture. And all it was was I just had no money

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literacy. No one ever taught me about that. And so that was

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another lesson that I learned on my entrepreneur journey. And for

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you, listeners, if you've ever experienced the money lesson, or

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you're going through it right now, let me tell you this, every

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successful entrepreneur has gone through it. It's almost, it's

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almost like a stripe. Because I went to a conference. And this

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is the way I decided to face that fear. I went to a

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conference. And I bought the VIP ticket to really network with

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some high achievers. And I made the decision, I was gonna tell

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every single person that I was in the middle of my money

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lesson, and I was I was in debt, I made the conversation about

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the other person and found something unique about the other

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person I was talking to as a strategy to face the fear. Every

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single person asked to do business with me. They asked to

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connect with me. And they were supporting me. And they were

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like, oh, Andrew, yours is $60,000 mine was a half million.

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Mine was 2 million. This other person's like, Well, mine was 5

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million. And it was almost like they, they were a priest, they

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appreciated me sharing the lesson. And they wanted to take

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care of me and help me understand it like, bro, I've

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been through it too. Yeah, and that's how I face that fear. So,

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um, yeah,

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Wow, I can't I mean, I can relate. And when I look around,

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I do see have to get past to that next level of success. You

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have to kind of wade through some of those struggles and

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figure out something, you know, like, what I've realized is, you

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know, I didn't break until after the fact I didn't break through

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levels of success in my life at cert when I wanted them. Because

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at that time, if I would have I would have totally messed it up.

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I did not have, you know, the tools, the resources, the people

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that systems, the skills to be able to handle what I wanted or

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what I you know, what I was asking for at that time. And so

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I had to go through those struggles, so I can figure out

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better systems so I could get the skills so that I could move

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on to the next step and you never see it when you're in it.

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Oh, absolutely. You know, once you're out of it, and you're

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looking back and you're like, Oh, that's why that you know,

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you start to connect. Yes.

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You just said the most brilliant thing to me is, you never know

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what the lesson is when you're in the middle of it. And I want

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to get back on track. get to this story so we can keep

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moving. So I've kind of talked a little bit about it. I was

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taking care of myself in 2016. I was in the gym and I was really

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trying to discover I got into real estate. I loved it. I did.

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You know, there's some really cool things I did in real estate

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investing. My partner was really good at finding the deals. And

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then I was the negotiator I brokered the deals, I got the

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investors, I structured things, I mean, just moving and shaking,

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making shit happen. I mean, I loved it. And so I experienced a

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couple lessons during that time, like, I got fired by my real

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estate agent. And yes, you guys heard that correctly. The real

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estate agent that I was paying, she fired me, it was the best

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one, it was probably the second most important lesson I've ever

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learned. Because what I realized is like, I didn't realize how I

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was treating people. This is the same cycle psychology, as we

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talked about before. I, and this is what I apply to my coaching

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and everything and everybody pay attention. This is so

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fascinating. She fired me because I was so difficult to

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deal with. And I thought we were going to lunch to celebrate,

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going our first flip. And what I found out was that I assumed

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everybody would tell me if they were mad at me. Like because of

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how I was raised if everything wasn't perfect, like I was,

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like, if everything wasn't perfect in the house, like I was

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either yelled at or criticized. So I grew up the majority of my

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life thinking that if something's wrong, I'm going to

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hear about it. So that's why no news is was good news. And

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nobody was telling me that I was I was a little short with them.

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And I was difficult to work with. So I had no information.

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And so once again, in 2017, I had to really dig in and think,

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what am I doing? What do I need to do better. And so I started

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passionately studying leadership, how to work with

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people, I've always had the gift of reading people, but I didn't

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have the skills, like leadership is a skill, people is a skill

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and you can learn it. And so I started really focusing on my

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business relationships, the healthy way, the right way. And

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then my personal relationship started following suit, and

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boom, that's when the light bulb went off. That's when I realized

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that everything ties together. That's why I'm so successful

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coaching people right now, because I know how to tie it all

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together. Because it's more than just money. It's more than just

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the thing you think it is it all ties together. And my gift is

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been able to give people like long life lasting success in all

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areas of their life no matter what it is. And

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so

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I learned the money lesson, I learned that I needed to learn

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how to treat people differently, more tactically. And I made the

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decision, I wanted to work with people and coach people, because

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there's a lot of people out there that are phenomenal people

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with extremely unhealthy behaviors that don't serve them.

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And that's what all this is about. That's what that's why

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I'm here. That's why I coach, because there's great people out

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there. And honestly, the more I climb the ladder in the

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entrepreneurial world and get to know people, here's what I found

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out the really good people like me and you and the listeners and

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people listening that are good people. We have a hard time

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telling people how good of a person we are. Right. And

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there's a lot of shitty people out there that are great at

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telling everybody how good they really aren't. Yeah. And so my

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mission is to empower the people that need to serve others, like

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the good people that have the skills to help others because

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they're good people. Right? We're the people that need to

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stand up and represent entrepreneurship, and growth.

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Because we have a responsibility, because we're

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ethical, we're more we have integrity. These are the people

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that need to be helping other people. But it's so fascinating,

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because there's a lot of people out there that are so good at

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marketing, but they're terrible people. And that's why I'm here.

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That's why I coach. And that's why I'm direct with people.

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That's why I do what I do. Because I will make sure when I

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leave this earth, I have changed it. And I've helped others do

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the same.

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Gosh, whoa, that's what a bomb you guys, I hope you were paying

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really close attention because every single point that Andrew

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just brought up, is completely spot on. This is something that

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I see with my clients as well. The people who are who need to

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be sharing the voice, the people who need to be out there serving

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are the ones that are you're not going to see out self promoting

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so much because that's not what it's about. But we need to and I

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love how you Andrew really help empower people to step into

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their own selves and to own their own power because that is

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how we outreach and we help uplift more people a lot of

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times, you know, good people, they have this kind of messed up

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view of wealth and what success looks like and because they're

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looking around, and they're picking out and finding all the

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negative examples Because they have their own confirmation

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biases there. And that's a whole nother topic, but they're going

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out and picking out all those people. So they subconsciously

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have this association that's negative, about being successful

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and having wealth and, and they don't want to be that because

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they are a good person. And so subconsciously, this is all

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happening on a very subconscious level. Most people don't know

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that it's happening right there, they're pushing themselves away

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from the success because they don't want to align with

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something that they don't think is good. And that's something

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that I really feel like you I mean, that's a huge belief and

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teaching that I work with my clients through. But I also feel

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like, that's something that you do a lot. As well as just help

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people give them the confidence to step into their power,

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because it's, you know, it's like the analogy of the kitchen

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knife. If someone you know, gets stabbed, right, you're not gonna

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blame the knife that stabbed them, you're going to blame the

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intention, the person behind it, it can be also that same knife

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can be used to cook a beautiful meal for a family. And we're

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just saying money is the same the wealth of success, it is a

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tool that can be used, depending on who is wielding it, depending

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on what the intentionality behind it.

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Yeah. And I'm telling you, if there was just one thing I want

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anybody to know, like, being a good person with integrity makes

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you better than 98% of your competition immediately. And for

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you guys listening. If your brain was like, No, that's not

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true. That's a thought that's, that's not serving you. That's

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one of those examples where you're like, well, I want to

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grow, but then someone gives you some advice, and then you just

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immediately discredit it. And I'm telling you, it's proven,

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it's true. Like being a good person, and taking care of

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people makes you so rare. And most of the people that I know,

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with money with success, they didn't get successful by

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treating people poorly. And by not caring with social media

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these days, and the ability to expose people, I love that

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because it makes it creates more accountability and

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responsibility. And I'm telling you, being a good person is one

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of the most valuable things, it's so valuable, it's more

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valuable than, than a skill, like caring about people is so

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valuable.

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And just one more point on that is, you know, as far as in the

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business sense, if you're able to take a customer or a client

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who is unhappy and who is upset, and you're able to show that

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value towards them and turn them into a happy client, those are

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the people who are going to end up singing your praises the most

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those are going to be the people who are going to go out, you

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know, because a loud customer who is angry is also allowed

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customer that's happened. So if you have a concern about they're

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saying negative stuff, if you go above and beyond, and be a good

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person and do the right thing, and it's not even about anything

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else, but if you just want to do the stand right by that person

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and make them happy. They're gonna add those people by being

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a good person that's going to put you above and beyond just as

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Andrew was saying, just doing the right thing when those

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issues arise.

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Yes, and I'm telling you,

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sometimes,

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and this is this is a business tactic that I teach, I'm going

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to pay attention, I go for the people that are verbose, that

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are loud, that are really not critical people, but just very

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opinionated, because here's the deal. In fact, I was at a

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training at that CNC company, the average age of the sales

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guys, there was like, 55, I was the younger guy. And this guy

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was doing a sales training, they described all these different

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types of people like, who would you want to get their attention

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in the office. And I picked the lady that is always busy, that

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you know, that they described as the one who's always busy, who

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never has time for people, I said, that's the one I would

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pick. And I was the only one of the group that picked that lady.

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And the guy said, why I said, because if I can get her to say

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something good about me or my product, then people are gonna

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pay attention. And I was the only one that was right. So what

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does this mean to the people that are listening? Right? It

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means if someone don't like, Oh, I don't want to deal with that

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person, they're a complainer. Guess what, the people around

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them also know they're kind of a complainer. They know they're

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opinionated, but they're also that type of person can also be

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a very successful person. So if you can get someone who's

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usually somewhat critical or opinionated, or just very, very

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selective about how they do business, and you Wow, that

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person, think about how impactful it is when that person

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walks around, says you're not gonna believe what this person

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did for me that the people that respond to them are gonna say,

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holy shit, I need to go pay attention to whoever this

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business is, or whoever this person is. Because if they got

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this person over here to shift their thinking, they must be

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really good. Right? We've kind of gotten down a rabbit hole

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here. I could talk about business,

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guys. I know. I know. And I feel like there's a couple of topics

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on here that we could really dig into deeper and really Go, you

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know, in depth on and I would love to have you back on the

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show so we can really dive into some of this on. I like to keep

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these around 45 minutes. So we're gonna wrap this up here,

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but oh my gosh, Andrew, that was just amazing. Your story is so

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incredible and, and I just love. I like the way that you think

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and the way that you put things together. It's just so inspiring

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and what you're doing the work that you're doing on to help

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others and to uplift others. It's so powerful. And I know, I

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don't know, Andrew, I heard so I heard a little birdie tweeting

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in my ear, and was telling me that there might be something

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coming up from you where we might be able to tune in to

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Andrews voice a little bit more often. And why? What's going on?

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Is there something of yours? Yes,

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ma'am. I will be starting a podcast, it's going to be called

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the mental wealth project. And, yes, that's something that I'm

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going to do. I was on another podcast the other day, and it

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was Trey. And I'm going to call him out Trey Carmichael. He also

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another fascinating human. He said, so tell me when you're

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starting your podcast. And so you know, he was holding me

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accountable. Right. So thank you so much for the time. And I just

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want to kind of sign off with the people that are listening

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that anytime someone has given me their time to listen, it's a

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gift. And I appreciate everybody that's taking the time to listen

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to me like you're a fascinating person. People are smart for

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listening to you, because you have so much knowledge and you

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care. And I forget your age sometimes because you know, me

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being who I am, you know, when we interact, it's it's just,

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it's fascinating to me about the person that you are. And for the

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people that are listening, I want you guys to remember that

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you really can do anything that you want to do. And as cheesy as

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that sounds, it's true. And there's a couple lessons that we

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talked about that I want you to remember, there's a big

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difference between being honest with yourself and the truth. I

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was being honest with myself, when I didn't think I had a

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problem when I didn't think I was not an alcoholic, but the

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truth of the matter is I was and we can always find one lie

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that's going to change our life, we can find one big lie. And as

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soon as we discover that, we can take action on it make a change,

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and then we can find another and that's growth. That's the that's

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the fun part of the journey. And the second part is, there's a

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big difference between fault and responsibility. We all get so

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stuck in And whose fault is it and blaming other people. And I

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understand that. If there's one thing I want you to take away

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from this, it's that fault is so irrelevant. And responsibility

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is the only thing that matters. Because, you know, I was I was

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verbally abused growing up. And that may not be my fault. But it

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sure as fuck is my responsibility that I don't

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verbally abuse somebody else. And if we get so stuck in it not

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being our fault, or that fault is, is the most important thing.

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We never get to the ownership, we never get to move forward,

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every but someone has it worse, someone has it better. But we

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all have cards were dealt. And as soon as you start saying you

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know what, I don't care whose fault it is. But this is who I

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want to be, this is what I want to do, you do have the ability

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to take ownership, you do have the ability to make shifts,

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because if I can go from drinking a full gl

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