There are 80 million women over 40 in America. Only 4,100 menopause certified clinicians. The gap is real. And my guest is working on changing that.

Dr. Kelly Casperson is a urologist, sexual medicine physician, and bestselling author of The Menopause Moment and You Are Not Broken. She's been leading the charge on women's health advocacy from serving on the FDA panel that removed the box warning on estrogen to pushing for testosterone deregulation. She has a large following, but as Kelly says: it's just a drop in the bucket.

HThere are 80 million women over 40 in America. Only 4,100 menopause certified clinicians. The gap is real. And my guest is working on changing that.

Dr. Kelly Casperson is a urologist, sexual medicine physician, and bestselling author of The Menopause Moment and You Are Not Broken. She's been leading the charge on women's health advocacy from serving on the FDA panel that removed the box warning on estrogen to pushing for testosterone deregulation. She has a large following, but as Kelly says: it's just a drop in the bucket.

We talk about the women who aren't on social media, who aren't listening to podcasts, who don't know their options exist. How we need to reach people in the community churches, community centers, libraries. We discuss why grassroots education matters, why testosterone is locked behind 1980s doping laws. We discuss why grassroots education matters, why testosterone is locked behind 1980s doping laws, and Kelly shares the real reason for menopause.

This is a conversation about what's changing in women's health and what still needs to change.

Highlights:

• Why grassroots advocacy in the community matters as much as social media.
• Why 30% of women prescribed vaginal estrogen won't use it (the box warning effect).
• Frailty isn't inevitable it's what happens when you don't maintain your health.
• The biopsychosocial model: how culture shapes your menopause experience.
• Kelly's philosophy: you have to advocate for yourself, but you're not alone.

Don't be afraid to start conversations with friends and loved ones about menopause, hormones, and the options available. You might be the only person in their life talking about this and that conversation could change be life changing.

Get in Touch with Dr. Casperson:

Website

Instagram

Podcast

Get in Touch with Me:

Website

Instagram

Youtube

Substack

Hey everyone. It's me, Dr. Samina Rahman, gyno girl. I'm back for another episode of Gyno Girl Presents Sex, Drugs and Hormones. I'm Dr. Samina Rahman and I am so excited today to have my guest on. If you're someone that's ever been confused or dismissed or just straight up gaslit about hormones, sexual health or anything in between the menopause transition, boy, do I have a guest for you.

We are living in a moment, a menopause moment. And one of the women leading that moment is my guest, Dr. Kelly Caspersen. She's a urologist, she's a sexual medicine physician, a podcaster, a bestselling author. Someone I like to call my friend as well, part of the coven. If you know, know. Coven, sorry, coven. I keep saying coven and people are like, that's not the way you pronounce.

You know, know, anyway, and honestly, one of the funniest, fiercest and clearest voices pushing women's health forward. Kelly has stepped boldly into the center of the menopause conversation. She has written her second book, The Menopause Moment. She served on the FDA advisory panel and recommended with the recommendation to remove the outdated box warning on estrogen, which is a huge win for women's health. And she's been a leading advocate for normalizing testosterone replacement in women.

and undoing decades of regulatory nonsense left over from the doping era. We're gonna talk about all of that, and we're gonna talk about alcohol, we're gonna talk about everything in between, about why hormones make people lose their minds, in the sense that even on social media, people are losing their minds about your stance on hormones. And we're also gonna talk about cultural ageism and how this experience in America,

you

It really shapes your menopause experience. So we have a lot to talk about and Kelly, let's jump right in. Thanks for joining me today. I'm super excited. We, of course I want to get your backstory, know, as a gynecologist, I love a good, you know, origin story, but, but which I know, but I'm sure the few people that maybe don't know about yours, but I want to talk to you because I just had a patient I was seeing in the end.

Thanks for having me.

You know, we were talking about, you know, biopsychosocial and sexual stuff, but then we started talking really about biopsychosocial when it comes to like even how we experience menopause. Would you have a whole chapter on actually in your book? And so I was having this conversation with her because she comes from two different cultural backgrounds. Like she's part of the indigenous people. And then she also has Latina, you know, both in her culture.

And so I was talking to her about this ageism in America and how like we in America really look at women as they age in such a negative way. Whereas like in different countries, in different societies, know, women become like the matriarch of their community, right? This is like their monarchy. They have freedoms, they have spiritual freedoms. They become like the person that everyone looks to. She was telling me like, yeah, my grandmother made all the decisions. Like it's liberating.

And it's hard because I find that for a lot of my patients who really, have complex cultural history, it's one of these things where they're also like, well, this is natural, so we shouldn't do anything about it. But on the same respect, these women are very empowered, much more empowered than women in the US particularly. And that made me think about, there's been like 80 prime ministers in other countries that have led other countries, but none of them are in America. Nobody's leading America in terms of like a.

You know, we had a vice president, but that was it. But I think that like, you know, some of these women in other countries, they're just looked at as the advisors, the leaders, the champions for their family. And that's not, you know, how we look at aging population in America, which I think has shaped how we experience menopause, which is changing now in this menopause moment that we're having. But I want to talk about that with you because I know that was like one of your big chapters is biopsychosocial and as sex med docs, we talk about that all the time, but.

up.

it's really applicable to this moment as well.

Yeah, well, thanks for picking up on that because I totally took that from the sex med world. When I started learning about, know, Ishwish and female sex med, which is the origin story, like I got into the podcast started, my podcast, You Are Not Broken, started after a year of deep diving on female sexual health because of a patient in my clinic who changed my life because I loved her. Like I loved her and I didn't know how to help her.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

you

And it was that combo, right? This wasn't a stranger crying about something. I was like, okay, well, like I was bonded. This was, I felt her pain deeply and I realized I didn't know how to help her as I'm handing her the box of Kleenex. All the thoughts from training come up. Women are difficult. They take too long and don't worry. The gynecologists are taking care of them anyways. Like it was those three.

Thank

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, which is kind of that's true. Yeah. Yeah.

You write another, so I was like, let's explore all three of those. Like are women too complicated? No, there's actually good, decent data on female sexual health. It just, nobody knows it. Right. And so I had to learn that. Do nobody teaches it. Do they are, do they take too long? well, anybody can take too long or too short, right? It's a, relationship do you want to have and blah, blah, blah. that was a myth. And then are the gynecologist helping them? No. And I was, I was. Yeah.

Yes. And nobody teaches it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, yeah, because we don't know either. We don't know the sexual stuff.

I always get in trouble when I say that because then people say not all gynecologists. And I'm like, I know not all gynecologists, but there's 80 million women over the age of 40 in America and what? 38,000 gynecologists who also need to get babies out and, bleeding and birth control. Like all of the other things that we're like, I mean, that's cultural bias. 101 is we told 50 % of the population that only one type of doctor takes care of you.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Cultural life.

Yeah, absolutely.

and it is ingrained and people don't see it. And when we're like, well, I can't find a gynecologist. I gotta go to gynecologist. I'm like, why do you have to go to a gynecologist for hormones? Why do you have to go to a gynecologist for sex med? Like other people are taking this on, but the bias remains that 50 % of you only go to this one little group. Like.

Yeah, absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

One type of doctor, one group. And I think, you

And everybody else is off the hook. The cardiologists don't need to know what's happening with your body. The psychiatrists don't need to know what's happening with your body. The neurologists don't need to know what happens when low hormones happen. Like, that is intense bullshit.

Yeah.

Total, total bullshit. And you know, I'm on all these, you know, Facebook, you know, OBGYN sites and I don't do obstetrics anymore. I haven't done it in 14 years or something like that, which is great. But I mean, like you see the frustration that people, and I've been in this situation where I worked in academics and I saw 40 patients a day and you know, 30 of them were OB routine visits and 10 were, uh-oh, I hope she doesn't ask me about sex or menopause because I don't know how to treat it. And I only have 10 minutes for her.

And so I recognize and I say this a lot, that the system is meant to fail physicians and it's meant to fail women, right? Like we don't have a system created for either.

That's right. The system is made to make insurance companies billion dollar companies. Like let's be honest, like the system does exist for a reason. Let's just be honest on what that reason is.

Exactly.

Yeah, absolutely. And so I see the frustration of the people who are like, well, everyone thinks they're in perimenopause now. And I'm like, well, maybe everyone that you're seeing isn't. You know, they all think it's their hormones.

because everyone is in perimenopause now. Yeah. I learned in medical school when you hear hoofbeats, think horses first, not zebras, right? And you're like, the horse, like horse meaning the most common thing for people who didn't learn that in med school. So think the most common thing before you think about rare stuff, right? Is basically the dogma of that. And so it's like, if she's 44 and experiencing new issues, it is perimenopause.

Yeah, yes.

It's You know, until they figure out, right, there's also a horse. And the reality is, you know, like nobody, you know, learned about it, talked about it, whatever. And so these patients are feeling empowered that there might be a reason they're not going crazy. Right. This isn't like.

There might be a zebra somewhere, but there's also a horse.

Yeah, and there might be like treatment options. Like number one, validate that it's real. Number two, there's actually options to feel less crappy.

Straighten out your shirt.

Yeah. Right. Yes. And so I think that's the issue. And, know, and I always tell my patients, like, I get it. Like, I'm sorry that you had that experience and it's terrible. And I hear it all the time. like, again, the system wasn't meant for you to have an hour appointment with your doctor. Right.

No, no, no, it's not made for that. You know, I do concierge also and I love it. It's good for me. It's good for my patients. I understand that we can't concierge our way out of this. And that's why I love the online hormone companies. They are the mass transit, right? I'm the Waymo or whatever. I'm the BMW X7, right? That you like, you love driving, but like you can't concierge your way out of

Right.

Yes. Yes. Right. Yeah.

80 million women over the age of 40. So we need all hands on deck. That's why I love these online hormone companies. I love them.

Yes, I agree, totally. And I think that, and every new person sprouting up, all the people coming to the Menopause Society, everyone's like, my God, so many people are becoming Menopause specialists. Great, everyone should be learning these.

Right. Yeah. No, it irritates me when people are like, we need a, you know, we need a fellowship, we need a specialty. I'm like, don't put 50%. This is 50 % of the population. Do not put that in the hands of 10,000 doctors. Do not do it. Right. And so to me, was like, we should have a specialty. I was like, there will always be the expert that knows the most, right? But can we make, I actually don't want it to become a fellowship or a specialty because it,

into an

Yeah.

Yes, exactly.

No.

It diminishes like, well, yeah, but I didn't do that. I feel that way with sex med. And there was one sex med fellowship for urologists, one. They trained one doctor a year. And I'm like, yeah, but you know, I'm not fellowship trained in sex med. Right? It's like, but you know.

Yeah.

Yes.

Right. mean, we just developed a GYN one like Sarah Signet two years ago. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, now there's two. So thank you, Dr. Sarah Signe, you're amazing. But yeah, that's the thing is like fellowships are good, sex med is too big. All family medicine, all internal medicine, all OB-GYNs, like all, it's like, all urologists, it's so big. But even I was like, well, there's a fellowship and I didn't do it. So who do I think I am? And now, you know,

Yeah.

It's too big. urologists. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Right. Right. We get that imposter.

two books and a six-year podcast later. like, know a decent amount about sex, but I can help. Yeah, like.

And these are out and you've treated a number of patients like the clinical boots on the ground clinician has the experience, right? Like, yeah. No, I totally agree. No, but it's so true. Like I don't, just don't think it's the right way to go. And it does. And niche is something that doesn't need to be, it needs to be something that everyone understands. The orthopedic surgeon needs to know why the, or the neurosurgeon needs to know why the Tarlopsis might be causing PGA. You know, that's like, it's all the things.

has the experience. Yeah. So, sorry, tangent.

Ortho needs to understand that you don't just stop your estrogen patch for surgery.

Like.

Yeah, I just got someone call me about that today. I was like, no, are sure? Yes.

I haven't looked at this data, this is an orthopedic data. Women who stay on their hormones after orthopedic surgery actually do better.

Yeah, like where did I see that? I don't know, but you don't have to stop estrogen patches. Estrogen patches don't increase your clot risk, just for anybody who needs to know that off the cuff. so yeah, orthopedic surgeons, need to know, clot risk with hormones is an oral synthetic issue, not a transdermal estradiol issue. And there are profound differences between all these things.

Right, exactly.

Yes, absolutely.

Right. And if you are a smoker and you're obese and you're sedentary and da da da, like, of course your risk is still there too. So you have to know that it's not going to negate that risk, but it's not going to increase it. Right. So I think that's.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. I see this all the time. Like, let's just let's provide all the knowledge to the people. Factor V Leiden. I'm not going to make your clot risk go away. You always have a clot risk. You have Factor V Leiden, but a transdermal ester dial patch isn't going to raise it. And we got published published studies on that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. On that, right? Exactly. I want to talk about your book and I want to talk about the experience that I told you about right after we have the Menopalooza in Chicago. Kelly came out with the midlife upgrade, our friends, Julie and Pam, who did always these amazing jobs. Yes, they always do. Yes, and it was for the menopause movement and

Shout out to Julie and Pam. They're amazing. They did an amazing book event in Chicago.

for the Manopause Moment book.

which is your second book as you just stated. And it was so interesting. I texted you right after, but I was taking an Uber home and the lady at the event was like, what's happening at this event? I'm always dropping people off at this venue for events. And I was like, you know, we had this huge mental palooza. And she goes, what was that? And I was like, well, was about napalm. And she was 40-ish year old black woman who was driving Uber part-time.

And she told me she was seriously having hot flashes and she wasn't sleeping and her grandkids were annoying. There was all the things. And I said, you know what, you need help. You had a hysterectomy, you've done this. And I handed her your book, because everyone got an extra book and I already have one. So I handed her, I was like, read this book, it's gonna guide you, it's gonna help you. And then go to this website. You can come to me if you want, but there's also a number of clinicians through the Menopause Society, through other places.

you can get help for." And she started bawling. She was like, I prayed on this this morning. Like, Lord help me. My anxiety's out the roof. I can't stand the people around me. I'm hot flashing like crazy. And she was like, she was only, I think she was only 40 and she had gone through menopause early because of a hysterectomy BSO for fibroids. And she, of course I heard the whole story going. But it was one of these things where it was like so serendipitous. It was such a beautiful moment. I was so moved actually. was just like.

Wow. And she goes, the Lord sent you to me to help me today. And it was like one of these things where like day by day, person by person, one by one, right? And it was just amazing moment. And I was just so moved by myself. But,

That's right.

One by one. One by one. Yeah.

It was incredible. The fact that you had an extra book and you just gave it to her and she was like, I prayed for the answer today and was like, Dr. Samina's in the fricking Uber. The whole thing is just such a goosebump chilling story.

You

It was, yeah, it was just great. So, you know, I think that, again, the education component of what we're doing with Menopause, you know, podcasts, books, everything is so huge, but there's just so many women to not that haven't heard about it still, or that don't know about it still, even though we're, you know, and so.

I know. I mean, like, you know, that's, I was in Palo Alto for some book events and these are like sold out, nice book events in Palo Alto, right? Like people are like, can I please come? Sorry. It's like they're sold out, right? And so I go to Barnes and Noble to do some book signing and these women are just like walking by me. You know, I'm like, hey, hey, you might want to know about this. Hey, hey.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, and so to me, was like, here, like, how do you get to the women who don't listen to podcasts, who don't go on social media, who don't read books? Like to me, I'm like, because that's the majority of women get their medical information on social media now, the cat's out of the bag. This is how it is. Anybody who's grumbling about that, welcome to the current times. This, yeah, this is how it's happening. But, and...

Yes.

2020.

There's a large group of people who choose not to be on social media, listen to podcasts, listen to books for whatever reason. But it's like, we're gonna start to see from like a cultural health disparity issue, we're gonna start to see these educated women who are getting the info, they're gonna get help, they're gonna get on hormones, they're gonna have less bone fracture, they're gonna have less diabetes, they're gonna have less depression and antidepressant side effects, right? There is going to be health differences.

between the women who have the information and the women who don't. And I think, you know, to really look at grassroots boots on the ground, and there are some people who are doing this, getting in the churches, getting in the community centers, getting in the libraries, getting in the community places where women are who aren't on this basically mass transit of social media, right? Because it's like, dude, I've got nearly a half a million on Instagram. I have

Of course. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right.

200,000 a month on my podcast, like, but it's a drop in the water. It's a drop in the water. And people are like, these medical, you know, educate, I choose medical educator over influencer. These medical educators, they're so big, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, we know we're not reaching it. Like every woman should know what happens to her body when she outlives her ovarian lifespan. Every woman should have the option.

It's a drop in the water compared to what absolutely.

Yeah.

Yes.

I don't care if you go on hormones or not, that's your body, your choice, but I care that you have the option when you're educated to make the decision from education, not fear. Those are every woman writes in my book. And so to me, I'm like, until we get to every woman who says puberty happens, pregnancy happens if you want it to or not, and ideally we live past our ovarian lifespan, what are you gonna do about it? It's as natural as those things, but suffering is optional.

Everyone.

Yes.

suffering option. Absolutely. And I think that's the whole point. it's, you know, people tell me this too, like, oh, you're always, I'm not pushing hormones. I'm giving you an option. I give you a toolbox. Like this book is a toolkit. It's not like everyone go out and run and get on a menopausal hormone therapy because it's not me as part of it, but you're also mentioning all the other lifestyle issues, all the things which we should get into. But

But I think that's what important that I think that's important for us to say because I agree with you. Like we're not pushing hormones on it.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a prescriber. I know the science and the data deeply, right? So to me, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think these are exceptionally good things to use. They help healthy cells stay healthy. see cells all over your body for multiple fronts. But at the end of the day, I don't care if you take them or not. I'm not living your life. I'm going to choose different because I know the data and the science, right? Like, right? I'm like...

Right.

Yes.

Yeah, great. Exactly. I'm going to check. Yeah, I got my patch on.

I want my mitochondria to function at their optimal level. I want my nerve sheaths to stay wrapped in myelin. Thank you very much. Right? Like all the things I want my insulin sensitivity as optimized as it can be. I want my bones. I am a thin, same with you. We are thin, small women. We better freaking have some bone strength or we're going to be in trouble. Right? And at the same time, like throwing out an estrogen patch is not going to make up for two glasses of wine every night, immobility.

Yes, yes.

Right.

Yeah. Absolutely. We're in trouble. Yeah, we're going to slip.

poor sleep, like shitty attitude. Like it's only one thing. And it's the only, this is the other thing that, you know, when people like whinge about this is like, everything's so expensive. I'm sorry. Going to bed on time. That's Body squats, pushups, pull ups, going on a walk. Free. You deciding to turn off the television and not let the stress of the world get into your brain tonight. Free. You not drinking alcohol.

Yes.

much.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

free, right? So to me, like, I'm like, there's so much stuff to do to improve your health that is zero dollars or actually money saving. And so to me, I'm like, I call out the people, right? It's so expensive to take care of yourself. Well, it actually is a lot of it. You can choose to have nice shoes and you can choose to have a gym membership and hormones by and large are really cheap. They're cheaper than a bottle of wine, my friends.

much cheaper.

Money saving, for sure.

Thank you.

Yes.

100%. Yeah. Let's talk about your book and what inspired your title. I love it. Yeah.

well, it's a good story. So Amazon search terms inspired the title because I wanted the title to be aging in captivity.

I'm all good.

I love it.

Which all of my fans are like, yes, that would have been awesome. they, again, publishers are publishers and they're like, people are going to think you're talking about that they're in jail or we don't know how people are going to search for that on Amazon. And I'm like, here's the aging in captivity thing. Number one, nod to Esther Perel and mating in captivity. Cause it's a, I'm actually rereading that book right now. It's phenomenal. My clinic does a monthly like chat with me and we started doing book clubs. So my clinic does a book club. Mating in captivity is our first book club.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Huh.

Yeah. that's nice. wow. That's really good.

So nod to Esther Perel, mating and connectivity. And when people say bullshit, only whales and humans go through menopause. Nobody, nobody else does this. The grandmother hypothesis is like the universe created menopause so you can hold a grandbaby. Like it's all bullshit. Like all of that's bullshit. And I talk about that in my book. But what is universal is you take any animal, all mammals.

YUM

Yeah. Yeah.

fruit flies, yeast, all animals that you keep in captivity and you give them a steady food supply, clean water, prevention from trauma care, cancer care, no natural predators, air conditioning and heating so you aren't freezing in the elements. You age them in captivity, right? You're following? Animals in zoos, we've been doing this for a while. All of them live longer than their reproductive potential.

Yeah.

all of them going all the way to fruit flies. Fruit flies in the wild reproduce to the point of then usual death. Take a fruit fly, put it in a lab, they get old. They've stopped reproducing and then they still live. So what we are doing is we are aging in captivity. Yes, we've got the great grandma outlier who lived to 93 that one time, but as a society never have we ever made it.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's amazing.

That one's done.

to our late 70s and early 80s. Average lifespan, 47, for a quarter of a million years. People don't, we don't remember that because we didn't live then. They took, and I put this in the book, the aristocratic males in old Britain, like this like 1400s. The only people who were wealthy enough to actually write down like when they died and when they were born, right? That was expensive. So only the wealthy people got, know. So men, they didn't die in childbirth.

Yes. Right. Yes.

Yeah, right, right. Yeah.

And these are the wealthiest dudes, because we didn't care about when anybody else died, right? Wealthiest dudes. Average death, 47.

Yeah. Yeah.

So for people to be like, menopause is natural of like, yeah, if you age in captivity, but the whole like, the universe does it so you can be a grandma, I'm sorry. Periods at 15, which means you can be a grandma at 30, which means you're a great grandma at 45. Let's think logically about this. Like all the shit we say to keep women in their place. Right, so for me, that's the, if I got my way, if I self-publish this book, it would be called Aging in Captivity.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right? Yeah.

I know, right? I mean, even though

I love it. I love it. I really love that.

Cause it's like, that's how it is. Nobody wants that to go away. But what are you going to do about it? Because frailty is the default. If you don't take care of the ship, take care of the ship or you will be the person who needs help getting on and off the airplane when you're traveling to see your great grandkids when you're 76.

Hunter.

Yeah, absolutely. And I also think that like, yeah, it is just one of these things patriarchal to put a woman in place. I mean, like when I did OB, it was like, just have a, you know, don't do the epidural. Like why the fuck not? Like, you know, I mean, fine if you want to experience the pain, but you don't get a reward for that to suffer more, you know.

Are orthopedic surgeons being like, don't worry, we'll just pop the shoulder back in. Ain't no thing, we'll feed you afterwards. Like, it's the only area. Even if my mom did it, my mom's like, I had my babies naturally. I'm like, would you break a femur and repair it naturally? Like, this is a traumatic event. Don't make childbirth not a traumatic event. It is a traumatic event. And I don't always mean even psychological, like, pelvic-ly traumatic event.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, it's just ridiculous.

Yeah.

I know.

It's traumatic. There's a whole body of literature on it.

Oh, yes, absolutely. My pelvis will never be the same. Absolutely. Again, you don't get an award for, know, not getting your epidural. I'm sorry to say, like, it's just not one of those things. And that used to frustrate me the most because, you know, it'd be like, what? No, I don't want to do it. My mom says I should do it without. I'm like, do we accept? And the whole, think the whole thing around GYN is just so, it's just entrenched in, in, in patriarchalism.

like help people through it.

I know, it's crazy.

But

Like we, you learn what you learn. Like you always wonder the whole IUD thing, for instance, right? Like I've always tried to give, you know, pain in my private practice, whatever I can for pain, even though I learned that women, you know, don't have nerve endings in the cervix and some sort of bullshit like that. They hurt dude. I'm like, you know, yeah. Right. But, but you should give people pain medication. Like that's just something that should be done. I mean, it's just.

IUDs effing hurt. They hurt. They hurt way less after you've had a child for anybody who wants to know that, but they hurt.

I just funny, I mean, I remember when I first started here in Chicago, there was a resident who told me that she didn't think her patient wasn't enough pain to give her an epidural. And I looked at her and I was like, karma's coming for you honey.

Yeah, know. yeah, doctors are so elitist that like, I'll be the judge of this. Like, what?

Yes. All I told her is like karma never forgets an address. FYI.

How is it possible that you're the judge of somebody else's suffering? How does that work actually? I don't know.

How does that work? I mean, that's why, you know, sexism and racism in medicine impact, you know, how we treat our patients. And that's why we have to really be on

Yeah, it was interesting. I was actually watching this documentary that it's not out yet. And they were saying a white male in the American health care system gets excellent individualized care.

Mm-hmm. I believe it, yeah.

And they're like, everybody else gets stereotyped into like how it should be or what's right for you or blah, blah, blah. And I had never heard it said like that before. I've like, when it's about Tom, it's about Tom. What does Tom want? Right. And I was like, Ooh, that hit.

Yeah.

about. Yeah, exactly.

I'm telling you, my dad had a cardiac procedure last year and I was in the post unit. It was like really a big hospital in New York and every person in the cardiovascular recovery space was a white male. He was the only first non-white male. There was no, I'm like, there's no way that a woman should not be cast. Like I was, my mind was blown at that moment. I had not seen one woman getting cast that day. And it was a typical, you know, 50 day, 50 person cast day. Like he's like, yeah, I do about 50 a day.

And I was like, how many women do you do a day? And he's like, oh, I don't know, just like a handful. most, and I'm like, yeah, women are just told they have anxiety and to go home. You know? I was shocked actually. It blew my mind that day. I was like, wait, there's not one woman. They're all just holding their husband's hands.

Crazy.

That's wild. heart disease, and for anybody who's listening who's like, maybe women don't have heart attacks as much. Heart disease is the number one killer of women starting in the, what, third or fourth decade? It's early.

You know, that's.

What's that?

Yeah, and you're more likely to die from your first heart attack if you're a woman.

Fascinating. Shitty. Maybe the better word is shitty.

Yeah, it's crazy, actually. Very shitty. Exactly. It's like WTN. It's very shitty, actually. So what do you think, like myth-wise, like if you had to bust a myth about menopause that you would trust in your book, what do you think your biggest... Because there's so many. There's like so many. Just pick your favorite. Yeah.

That's not fascinating, Kelly, that's shitty. Okay, right.

God. Yeah, I know. That I'm past menopause, that I'm too old for hormones, that I'm too young for hormones. I joke women are two ages in the healthcare system. They're too young and they're too old. So you better make sure you go to the doctor on the right day. On that one day that you're the right age, go to the doctor on that day. Yeah. Those are the, you can't be on vaginal estrogen if you're on systemic estrogen, testosterone. That testosterone is all the things. Only for men, addictive, dangerous.

Yeah.

I turned the right age,

Bye.

Yeah, yeah, yeah

blah, blah, blah, blah, all the reasons that women are told they can't be on hormones that are not true, all of those things. Like it is, it's like, I know why I'm in this, like I know why I'm here, right? Like I have a, my personality, I'm a first born and I'm an Enneagram eight. And so basically what that means is I bite fiercely for the underdog. Like.

100%.

fight very fiercely for the underdog. And I'm like, listen, I have a voice, I have a skill, I'm gonna fricking use it to get this, this is a quality in medicine for me. Like that's what it is. And a profound love of getting women to feel better. But it's like, until it's equal and until like, would you say that to a man? Is a man too old for Viagra at a certain point? Right? Can a man not have Viagra? Cause he's on testosterone. Right? Like, like all this shit. Like you're like, we don't say those things to dudes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, they'll give it you. I mean, it's great. I think you come in from that neurology. mean, and you know, like every time I Yeah, yeah.

That's the power of the urologist, for sure. Because the gynecologists don't treat the other gender. And so they don't understand that we're like, you want some Viagra and some testosterone? Let's start it today. Okay, all right, let's fix this problem, Tom.

now happily.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's true. I mean, the whole field of sexual medicine was started by a urologist who had done the Viagra study and he was like, wait, yeah, yeah.

I know. Erwin Goldstein. I mean, it's such a good story, right? Like, so for your listeners who don't know, so Erwin Goldstein was the first author on the Viagra paper that basically got Viagra approved in 1997. And back then they had phones. So like, I think you published on your paper the phone number, right? Of how to contact people. And so I just went to a restaurant this week in Seattle. They don't have phones anymore. I couldn't call them. So like now phones are out.

Yes.

wow.

So anyways, they called Dr. Goldstein and they're like, hi, what about me? What do have for me? Yeah. And so Goldstein, he tells the story and he's like, so I told him to go to their gynecologist to get their problem fixed. And then they came back and they're like, went to the gynecologist, didn't fix the problem. What do you have for me? And he's like, the majority of people who called were not men, they were women. thus began.

You're making all these dicks hard, but now what are you gonna do?

Yeah.

Yeah.

the International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health. That's such a good story. I have goosebumps.

I love that story. You hear it too many times. Yeah, I know. And that's how that's literally how he operates. Like, you'll be like, wait, you don't and then he'll just figure it out. Like, Oh, peek at all. me just figure it out. And it's like, okay, that's really cool. I want to talk about the FDA thing because that's huge, right? Like, I feel like you were on the advisory panel in July, and then you were at the actual, you know, what did they call it? The the

Yeah, I know.

Announcement.

The announcements, the FDA announcement, where you gave a wonderful speech, lecture, whatever you want to say. So what was it like kind of behind the scenes? Like, what was it like, you know?

Thank you.

The funniest thing about it that I remember is like the week, I don't know people remember this, was like in the news for a blip, but like a week before the FDA announcement, some dude had passed out in like a government. You remember this? Okay. So everybody was like, everybody's like, did everybody have breakfast? Does everybody have water? Like they're still kind of traumatized. like, we don't want anybody passing out. So that was like, what was this on the top of some people's minds? It was amazing. The second lady was there. And so that was fantastic.

July.

yeah. Yeah.

It was like that, they were gonna make it happen.

That was so funny.

RFK's wife came, they both sat in the front row, it fantastic to see so much female support for this. I thought everybody gave dynamite talks. I think the only critique was from people who didn't understand the history of it. Like people were like, so they just decided on Tuesday to take all the warnings off this drug. Like that was like the biggest critique. And I'm like, first of all, there's still warnings on the drug. It's on the label, just like every other drug. So I went on NPR.

Yeah.

I like I'm not doing it. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, it's not a huge box. Yeah.

a couple of weeks ago to talk about it. They're like, let's talk about removing the warning. And I'm like, correction, removing the boxed warning. There's still a warning on the drug about drug risks. The boxed warning means significant threat to life. It never deserved the box warning in the first place because all of the products it got on were not what was actually studied and what was actually studied wasn't actually that bad in the first place either. It was the media's interpretation of it that made it bad.

Yes. Yeah.

Right. Right.

Because we were like, the scientists about the media's interpretation of the WHI is why shit went down.

Even how they did it, right? Like they didn't even publish the paper yet. And they're all of a sudden like, let's have a huge press conference and talk about what. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's like the most expensive, most expensive study that will ever be done on women. Probably.

Yeah, well, that was that was a little bit of the researchers. But the actual data was it's a decent paper and it's free online for anybody who wants to look at it. Breast cancer was not statistically significantly raised.

So this is the media's interpretation of it. So because of that, there was a boxed warning. Boxed warning means significant threat to life. We finally on that fateful Monday announced that the data didn't ever support this and the data is just stronger and stronger that it does not cause significant threat to life. So we moved the box warning. But I think it was universal love and support for pushing women's health forward.

to reflect what the data and the science says. And the only haters were the ones that didn't know that this was over a decade in the making and didn't know what the box warning actually means and what it meant that we took it out of the box warning. So to me, I'm like, the only people who were hating on it were miseducated.

Yes.

Yeah, I mean, there was a couple that who don't agree with what the administration stands for. And so they just felt like anything coming from this administration is shady. But I feel like you have to do everything that you I feel like any win we get for women's health, should take like we should work with people. It's not us versus them thing. It's like we need to work.

Listen, I'll just be the devil's advocate. Again, this has been decades in the making. There's been democratic administrations that nothing happened in. Right? So for people to make it political is absolutely stupid and is a distraction from helping women have accurate healthcare.

Yes.

That's That's happened happened. Yeah. Bullshit.

Yes, I agree 100%. We need to get together and do it.

So to me, I'm like, who cares? We got the job done. Yeah, and furthermore, the other team didn't get the job done. So what are you hoping for?

Yeah, that's true. Right, exactly. Whatever the reason, it got done and it's 10 years in the making, like you said. yeah, exactly. Thanks, praise the Lord. And I'll tell you as someone who, and I think I shared this story with you guys, but two weeks before the label was supposed to be removed, I had a patient who had a history of like DCI, or she had a previous history of DCIS and was, you

Yeah. And to me, like, I'm like, it's done now. It's friend. Yeah.

getting all the studies, works up, has terrible hot flashes, nights with, she basically was really struggling. She tried all non hormonal methods. She couldn't do it. She went to her breast surgeon. No, you can't have anything. Then she came to me, of course I gave her what she needed to help her quality of life and her life change. Again, risk benefit ratio. We talk about all that. We talk about precision medicine. was precision medicine. She went back to the surgeon for her like,

For DCIS?

ultrasound, whatever, you she needed to get done. And she was like, yeah, this is great that you're on these hormones. They just removed the label. So I'm totally comfortable with it. I was like, It was, you know, it was, she was like, she was like, it was like a bout face. Like it was a total like, and I was like,

That's why, mean, you know, when people are like, experts that know, know the actual data and that the box warning never reflected it and that was fine. But not everybody's experts and the box warning does matter. You know, and I quoted, and I quoted in my talk on that Monday on the announcement, Dr. Una Lee's paper, which basically asked women, hey, you know, well, how's your access for vaginal estrogen? What? Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Right. Right.

Right. Right. And not everybody has the time, right, to be the

basically trying to see how bad access was and what they do. So if a woman was lucky enough to get a prescription for vaginal estrogen, which is a big ask, I think still, she's lucky enough to get it. She goes to the pharmacy, she gets it from the pharmacy, she brings it home. So there's already multiple barriers have been successful. So she gets home, she reads the boxed warning and it says probable dementia, blood clots, stroke, heart disease.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Overcoat.

Even when you tell her not to. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

You know, I mean, I tell her not to, but the average person doesn't have time. 30 % will not use it. One in three got, got a, went to the doctor, got a prescription, got it from the pharmacy. The price was reasonable. One in three will not use it because of the boxed warning. So that boxed warning actually is a very big deal. Was, was incorrectly limiting excellent care.

That's so easy.

Huge. It's really.

totally agree with you. it's really, mean, those stories speak profoundly and I think you're just eliminating a barrier that shouldn't have been there actually at the end of the day.

Yeah, totally. And you're like, you're like, good Lord, that decades to remove that bullshit barrier, right? You're just like, but but I have left the experience all the better for it. Profoundly optimistic, because now I mean, welcome to Kelly. I'm on the side of like, we can change it, right? Like profoundly energetic and optimistic because of it.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

so yeah, I completely honored that because of my advocacy, my voice, my persistent support of women, I got to be chosen. Like, how lucky am I? That's insanity. It's, it's so crazy that I got to do that.

Totally, that's amazing. It's amazing actually. really is. Yeah, totally amazing. I love it. I mean, what do you think it's gonna take to, I mean, I think we just have to keep pushing the point forward, but there's still so much like, know, that you hear like across the board. Like, I don't know what, what do you feel like is the next step to take to get people to know that these hormones aren't scary for them?

Yeah, well, I think, you know, getting more women access, educated. But then once there becomes and this is happening, like I'm starting to see it. But once enough women get on it, their lives, women aren't like, that's nice. I'm 2 % better. Right. Like women are profoundly changed by it and they become very vocal about it. And so that is going to snowball things. Right. So to me, I'm like, we get enough women educated.

Yeah.

Yes.

and then they share and their friends believe them and their sisters trust them and they tell their daughters and like then boom, right? So I just hope I'm not a pharmaceutical company. I don't know many people in pharma, but to me I'm like, hey pharma, don't run out of this shit. Like, you seeing culturally what I'm seeing? Because like, do not run out.

Okay.

Yeah.

plan for five years for this to be way more normalized. Like Samina, like how fast we've come. It's insane. mean, menopause overtook sex again, right? Like sex is like, we're getting somewhere with sex education. Nope, nope, nope, nope,

Yes.

What does that mean? Where it's like, you know, the guys looking at the thing and

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So to me, I'm like, that, you know, we profoundly need sex education, sexual health, sexual health options for women. Like we profoundly need that. But I'm like, man, menopause took that and ran with it, you know, like, and if, if I think the empowered menopausal woman is going to help the sex, you know, platform because they're like, hey, I actually don't feel shitty now.

Mm.

Rans, yeah.

100 % right.

Yeah, biopsychosocial, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I need some options for sex, right? So I think it'll only help. But when I think of like my two niches, know, I'm like, menopause kind of kicked sex education's ass. Like, good job. But I mean, hormones, they're, But you know, the cool thing is like, who are some of the best menopause providers? The sex ed Ishwish doctors.

Yeah. Yeah.

Out there, there, yeah, exactly, High five, high five, Madhav.

Yeah, no, 100%. Because that's been something on the agenda for, since the beginning, really. mean, everyone in Ishwish has really been talking about how menopause is, I mean, the whole concept of the genitourinary syndrome menopause in 2014 was again, know, Dr. Goldstein and Al pushing for the urinary component of it, right? Before it was what? Bulbal vaginal atrophy and you know.

Thank God for Erwin and Sue Goldstein.

you know, vagina and all that bullshit, but there's a urinary component to it that we know about and we know it's life saving. So we need to make sure that people know that as well.

Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, it's crazy to be like, guys, vaginal estrogen actually saves lives. Like, we've got that data. That's the other crazy thing about, like, know, systemic estrogen is like, if there was a drug that men could take between the ages of 50 and 60, and it made them live like two years longer, do think they'd all be on it? Yes, yes, they would. OK, that's called estrogen. Women.

Yeah.

Yeah, yesterday. Yeah. they have a vaccine against menopause. Let's vaccinate you against menopause.

Why no? Totally. Absolutely. that's the joke is there be testosterone in every 7-Eleven.

Yeah, that's up true. Well, let's talk about testosterone because we're talking offline before that you ever you're missing the FDA discussion around mentally.

Yeah, so today the FDA is doing a men's health roundtable and I've got several friends on the panel and I didn't, I'm podcasting all day today so I didn't get to see it live, but I'm gonna, it's for anybody who wants to go back and see it, could just go to the FDA's YouTube channel because it'll be on there. And then see also the July Women's one which was also exceptional. So they're going to talk a lot about testosterone, they're going to talk about screening. mean, Samina, why aren't we screening men at age 40 for testosterone?

Yeah. Yeah.

Amazing, yeah.

If we know, if we know men with low testosterone have more depression, more diabetes, more bone fracture, more dementia, why aren't we screening? We screen for thyroid for Christ's sake, which is like how many people have low thyroid? Not saying it's not important. I'm just saying it's a very small amount of people who actually have thyroid issues compared to low testosterone for men. It's probably 20%. Right? So it's like, much as we complain about like women's health and not being where we want it be, it's like, no.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know what's

We have a cheap, effective biomarker and treatment. And we know men with low testosterone die sooner and have more medical issues. Cheap screening, cheap fix, and we're not doing it.

for a million.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, because they have so many testosterone for them. They can just choose what's interesting.

Oh, I know. I know. That part, that part's cute because like we need more testosterone options. And I'm like, give us one. Can we have one of yours?

I'm like 30. Oh my God. You know what's funny is, know, a lot of times I'll have couples come in, you know, when they talk about their sexual stuff. And so it's interesting to me because, you know, I mean, I'm not a urologist, but you know, I'm always asking about the couple span. And so like if it's, if it's a woman's married to a man and, you know, I ask, you know, like, you know, 40 % of men at the age 40 have erectile cysts. Is this something you're experiencing, you know?

and or like I'll scream for Perone's disease or whatever, right? Cause that's something that we know affects both sexes or sexual encounters. It's interesting. I for, you know, and I did a urology rotation when I was a fourth year and I have two brothers who are urologists. I, know, I'm, I'm in the pelvic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually. Yeah. Yeah. We're all pelvic people. Actually they wanted me to do urology, but

Wait, hold on. You have two brothers who are urologists?

When I did my rotation, I had a very negative experience with a urologist in my medical school. And I loved women's health so much. Like I was a women's studies major. Like it was just something that I was like, I have to do. I didn't love OB, but I love gynecology. So yeah, but yeah.

Sweet. Sorry, I distracted you. Okay, so the partner, you ask about the male.

Yes, and so was so interesting because, you know, I just didn't, don't, I guess I just, always anticipate women having so much shame around their issues and women having, you know, because men, feel like they're just like sexual. Yeah, it is. And it was just so interesting. was like, every time I see one, a male patient with my female, you know, patient, it's just, and I don't treat them, but I just like to ask them as they come as a couple, but it's so interesting.

no, there's a, Shane's a universal emotion, my friend.

I love, I love Saint train couples. Cause I get to, I get to do that. It's so awesome.

No. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're always asking, can you just treat me? And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not equipped for that.

No, probably not. Probably not. No, the masculinity wrapped up in erection function is tightly wound, tightly correlated. And that's unfair, right? Erections are, at the end of the day, blood flow and cardiovascular function. So see also heart health. But it does not define if you're a man or not. It does not make you worthy or not of sexual health.

sorry.

I know. Yeah, heart health is.

they being the male population have, they've got, I don't say issues too, but like they've got challenges, just all humans. I think it's a human condition thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's so, yeah, it's, I'm glad you said that because I think it's something that we have to, we talk about couples span and sort of that lifespan of the couple or sex span as Mohe Farah says. Like we gotta make sure we're talking about the whole couple and how that works, unless they're not couples and that's fine too. Let's talk a little bit about the testosterone doping things. I know that's one of your big things too is to get this like, you know,

Yeah. Yeah.

ridiculous restrictions around prescribing testosterone. Like I have to look at my... Yeah. But worse, because if you don't have a pen, you can't prescribe it in states that you don't like whatever.

It's kind of like the, it's kind of the boxed warning of estrogen, but, but what worse?

Listen, I am so excited for them to deregulate testosterone. It's coming. It's coming. Again, I'm like the profoundly optimistic friend now because I'm like, guess what happened in 2025? Yeah. Well, then there's part manifesting to that too of like, I'm decently, yeah, I'm a thought leader in the space. So I'm like, female testosterone is coming and they're going to deregulate it. People are like, it's happening. Right. I'm like, I'm going to manifest it until it's true. But so the...

I love it. I love it. I'm like, well, tell us that is coming, guys. All right, stay tuned. Stay tuned. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's happening. Yeah. Well, you're it is exactly.

Doping in sport has existed since people could stand upright, probably. And it was very rampant in the 80s. Many anabolic synthetic compounds were used. You can't just have high testosterone and win the Olympics. You've got to be doing a lot of nefarious shit to dope to win. So people need to know that. And because of that, was literally an act of Congress, 1991 Anti-Doping Act.

Yeah, right, right.

that had Congress say, this is a list of banned and DEA restricted. And what DEA restricted means is like ketamine, drugs of abuse, Tylenol with codeine, oxycodone, like drugs with significant abuse potential that have to be behind more locked doors than just a prescription. So, testosterone is the only naturally occurring hormone that made the list.

I see.

And so what that means is in addition to your medical license, you also have to have a DEA license, which is an extra thousand dollars every few years. DEA, I mean, my opinion personally, the DEA is busy. Has anybody noticed we have an opioid epidemic that's, you know, we're a little distracted right now, but the DEA, we need to preserve DEA's resources. Going after doctors that prescribe physiologic dose testosterone is not the right use of these resources.

Yep.

Yeah, why don't you guys focus on that?

Yeah. Right.

So it was an act of Congress though that did it. My understanding is the DEA didn't want it, the FDA didn't want it. So now there's a push to be like, dude, you're making access to a safe, effective medication difficult to all American people because of the sport doping scandals of the eighties, which is insane. 1980s is a long time ago. Oh my God. Like how long does it take to undo stuff?

Right.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, we're, it's, we're making it. because of that, it's just very similar to the box warning. People think it's dangerous. People think it's addictive. People think it's nefarious. People think, you know, you, you, the bar to get it should be a lot higher than what it should be. So.

Right. Yes.

Yeah, coming, it's coming.

It's time. the question is, how are we gonna do it? Act of Congress to put it on, can the DEA say, we don't think this qualifies? Like, what's the actual process to deregulate? That's for the smart people to figure out. But knowing the DEA never put it on. The FDA never put it on. But they're gonna be part of who's gonna take it off because they're like, this is restricting access to aging Americans. We need to make this.

Right, does that sound good? Yeah.

That's so interesting.

Great. We need to do something more.

And the other big problem is we live in a world now where telehealth is normalized and not going away. And it's very tricky for DEA and multiple states and telehealth. And especially since the DEA is like, we're not certain telehealth should be able to do restrictive medications. So we need to get testosterone off to preserve health access to people who just need to replace their hormones.

Hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm waiting. I'll wait for the day. You'll let us know, I'm sure. When it's coming. Oh, it's coming, guys. Okay, so one more thing I want to talk about was around, you know, we talk about social media and all the things that happen on social media. And, you know, I found you on social media, which is great. And I'm so happy and grateful. But of course, there's the downsides that come with it. And, you know, people pitting each other against each other, which is just shitty because it's like we shouldn't have like

yeah.

Mean Girls happening in a world where we're just all trying to do the same thing, which is really benefit our patients. feel like, you but I mean, I will say, I think social media has been such a benefit because there's some of these things wouldn't have happened. I mean, what, what in 2017, all the organizations said we need this FDA warning off and what did it take to get the warning off? Took a bunch of people that were active on social media screaming about it, right? Like advocating.

The same with IUD and pain control. Like that was pretty standard. No one got IUD, but now it's mandated by the CDC and all these places because of the advocacy on social media. but what if, I don't even remember what I was gonna say. See, I'm brain fogging. Oh, just in terms of that, like what would be the message that you want people to understand about, you know,

the, you know, people are fighting about things and it's all very silly in my, in my mind. feel like, you know, we're all trying to do the best we can for the women that we take care of and the people out there who don't have access. So, I mean, what, what do you want people to know about sort of how we interact in that?

Yeah, I mean, I'm human also. Like I get my feelings hurt and I always try to be very mindful, especially as my platform gets bigger and bigger. Right? I'm like, am I saying this in the best way? Do I have the right? Is my heart clean? You know what I'm saying? This is this ego work or is this helpful? Right. And I think I, and most people don't think about those things. Right. So it's like, this is this to me is like, you know, check yourself with

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. I did too.

.

great power comes great responsibility. And I think there, know, social media amplifies who people are. And if you see social media, it's like, it's just an amplifier, right? So if you see people like day in, day out, trying to help women, mean, my big thing is vaginal estrogen, like day in, day out, I'm like literally just talking about vaginal estrogen. It's like, man, that person really wants to help women with vaginal estrogen. If day in, day out, you see somebody calling out shit,

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

you know, hating on stuff, like that's their brand. That's who they are. Right. And so at the end of the day, it's like, who do you, if you're going, who do you listen to? It's like, well, who, who fills your heart? Who speaks to you? Who has your message? Like it certainly isn't the nastiest person. Right. And, and I just know like, that's not my brand. It's very rare. It's very rare that I'll call out a company, let alone an individual.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, more colleague.

because I think it distracts, like it distracts from the message, it distracts from the cause and as worked up as anybody gets about it, it's gone in two days. Like people's attention spans are very short. know, so yeah, so to me, I'm like, I don't wanna say I'm above it because I get my feelings hurt too sometimes, but when people call me out,

I agree.

two exactly very short what I found is

Number one, are they taking me out of context, which is super easy to do on an Instagram reel. Like it's an hour long podcast and they cut a reel, right? And then you're like, okay, well that it gets heads to turn for a reason. It's built to turn heads, like understand the media you're playing with my friends, right? And so yeah, I don't think, I think you can get big without this being an introspective spiritual journey, but it certainly helps.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

when you've got like, what are your core values? What are you trying to do? What type of person do you want to be? What's worth getting worked up about and what's not? Like, what should I respond to and what's not worth responding to? Right? And it's like, yeah, yeah, I wish you could just create and post and, you know, be dumb. But it's like, you have to think about that stuff, especially when you get the responsibility that comes with a big platform.

not think about.

Absolutely. I mean, I think we're both deeply empathic. find that like, you know, when I see like a negative comment, like I'll, you can get like thousands of positive comments, but if I see one negative, like you need to get, I remember somebody wrote on one of my YouTube's like, you should really figure out how to do your hair better. Like you're babbling a lot. And that's all I thought about for like weeks. And I sent it to my hairstylist. I'm like, look at this person saying about me.

And then they're like, know, you get thousands of people out like, yo, you changed my life. Like, so glad that you're putting this information out there. But that just goes to the human aspect. I think we're both deep impacts too. Like it's really hard not to, you know.

Yeah, I agree. But you do enough personal work and you realize anybody's comment is about them. It's not about you, it's about them. They find it necessary to comment on other people's hair, that's on them. Right?

Yes. Yeah. Yes.

But why I'm like, I'm here to educate you. Why are you coming on my

Because we dismiss intelligent women. We dismiss intelligent women by picking on their looks, like looks are important. Yeah. I know. Totally. I know.

Yes, yes, the whole ageism is back in full effect. Where we started our talk. Well, I'm glad you said that and I wanted to give you space to say things because I feel like you are such an amazing person out there, but you're actually just a really good person. I love you, I feel like you're very empathic. You actually are really real, like you're a real person that doesn't, know, and so don't think people maybe not know, but that's Kelly, that's really who she is.

Yeah, like that's what that's the trip of like getting bigger is like, people are dehumanizing me now. Right. Like, like you get big enough, you get dehumanized. That's part of the that's part of the gig. And it's like, it's actually incredibly uncomfortable. But to realize that's not about me. That's just I got big enough that because I've done some things now that you'll start to be dehumanized. And I think it just it makes me realize like, dude, like appreciate the friends who know you.

Yes.

process. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

right? Because it's like, at the end of the day, social media is fake. Like, you know, like, it's, it's a it's a platform, understand the tool that you're using, understand the tool that comes with flaws. Like, it's a tool. You know, we're surgeons, we understand tools, like, don't give it more power than, than is due. Yeah. Oh, well, thanks for having me.

It's all fake news. It's fake news. It's just fake. It's just a fake news.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes.

then you can add. Yeah, absolutely. And now of course, and you know, I do this thing at the end called the vagilante verdict, because my husband makes fun of the, he's like, I think all your listeners are vagilantes. And so what's the one thing you want the listeners to take home today, other than that you should go out and get the menopause moment.

That's adorable.

Right. I would just say you're not broken, man. you know, I'm a broken wheel at this point, but it's like, dude, nobody is coming to save you. There's many people that profoundly want to help you, but nobody's coming to save you. And understand, like, it's hard to not feel well, but it's worth it to try slowly, slowly, slowly, because feeling well feels amazing. And I really want that for everybody.

Yeah.

Yes, you have.

Hopefully, we can. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Kelly Casperson. You're amazing. I will talk offline again, but thanks for being on my podcast. Thanks everyone for joining Gyno Girl Presents Sex, Drugs, and Hormones. Remember, I'm here to educate so you could advocate for yourself. Please join me next week.

Awesome!