Driving Innovation: The Partnership Between Champ and W.R. Berkley | The Pair Program Ep47

In this episode, we hear from two guests: Shane Bigelow and Mike Nannizzi. Shane is the CEO of Champ, a Cleveland-based technology company that is changing the way that vehicle titles are created, managed, and transferred in the United States.

Mike runs the venture arm for W.R. Berkley with a specialty in early stage technology companies.

They discuss:

• The inspiring story behind Champ and the critical problems they’re solving in the vehicle title industry.
• W.R. Berkley's role in supporting Champ's mission.
• Insights into early-stage technology investments.
• The challenges of bringing innovation into the federal space.
• The future of government-collaborative technology solutions.

Whether you're interested in entrepreneurship, government technology, or strategic partnerships in tech, tune in to get practical insights from industry leaders at the forefront of innovation!

About Shane Bigelow: Shane McRann Bigelow is CEO of Champ Titles, a Cleveland-based technology company that is changing the way that vehicle titles are created, managed, and transferred in the United States. Prior to Champ Titles, Bigelow was a Senior Vice President and Managing Director at Bernstein, where he managed a part of that firm’s U.S. business and sat on the firm’s Responsible Investment Committee that focused on the United Nation’s Principles for Responsible Investment; Environmental, Social and Governance Issues (ESG); and Socially Responsible Investment matters. There, Shane developed a highly informed view of how emerging technologies can help society through reducing the costs of government, which informs the business at Champ Titles today.

About Michael Nannizzi: Mike runs the venture arm for WR Berkley with a specialty in early stage technology companies. Mike primarily focuses on companies within the fintech space, and his investments typically involve both a financial position and role in the respective companies' Board of Directors. Mike lives in Larchmont New York with his wife Kathy, children Sasha, Natalie, and Max, and dogs, Fergie and Malibu.

Sign-Up for the Weekly hatchpad Newsletter: https://www.myhatchpad.com/newsletter/

Welcome to The Pair Program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you

2

a front row seat to candid conversations

with tech leaders from the startup world.

3

I'm your host, Tim Winkler, the

creator of hatchpad, and I'm

4

your other host, Mike Gruen.

5

Join us each episode as we bring

together two guests to dissect topics

6

at the intersection of technology,

startups and career growth.

7

Hello everyone.

8

Welcome back to The Pair Program.

9

Uh, Tim Winkler here with Mike Gruen.

10

Mike.

11

Today marks the end of a pretty epic run

with one of the, the goats of the, of the

12

game show, uh, uh, genre with Pat Sajak.

13

Are you familiar with this?

14

I am.

15

Wheel of Fortune.

16

Yep.

17

Last episode.

18

Yep.

19

Is, is the, is Wheel

20

Mike Gruen: of Fortune

going off or is he going?

21

No, Wheel of Fortune is still going.

22

Pat Sajak's retiring.

23

Right.

24

I heard Pat Sajak's retiring.

25

Um.

26

That's right.

27

Yeah.

28

That's right.

29

Okay.

30

End of an era.

31

End of an era.

32

That's right.

33

I feel like he's a

local Seacrest is coming

34

Tim Winkler: in.

35

Mike Gruen: I feel like.

36

So he's a big, he's a big Caps fan.

37

I know he's a big Caps fan.

38

Yeah.

39

I don't know if he's from DC or not.

40

There's no accounting for taste.

41

He must be from the area to be a Caps fan.

42

Why else would you be a Caps fan?

43

Tim Winkler: Okay.

44

All right.

45

Ranger is a trash talker.

46

Um, I, I was going to actually go with

my pairing of, of Vanna White and Pat

47

Sajak is one of the, one of the best one,

two combos, but I got something else.

48

I got something else, but, uh, yeah,

I just got to give a shout out.

49

That was, uh, you know, a legend,

uh, in the game show host, uh, arena.

50

So good on your pap.

51

And ending on top, that's like, yeah,

he's going out on his own terms.

52

Mike Gruen: That's always nice.

53

Yeah.

54

Tim Winkler: Uh, all right.

55

Excited for today's episode.

56

Uh, so this is another one of those

mashup episodes where we, we bring

57

in a founder, uh, from a startup

and we also bring in an investor

58

who's partnering with that founder.

59

So kind of gives us this diverse

perspective and insight into, you

60

The startup journey, you know,

investment strategies, how the two

61

kind of see eye to eye and what

they saw in one another as well.

62

Um, so today we have Shane

Bigelow, founder and CEO of,

63

of champ titles and Mike.

64

Then none is eating an easy.

65

How am I pronouncing that?

66

Mike?

67

Uh, Smith.

68

Michael Nannizzi: No, it's,

uh, it's, uh, then easy.

69

Tim Winkler: Gotcha.

70

Mike Nannizzi, Mike Nannizzi Smith,

Mike Nannizzi joined us, uh, Head of

71

Venture Investments at WR Berkeley.

72

Shane, Mike, thanks for

joining us on The Pair Program.

73

Thanks for having us.

74

Yeah, thanks.

75

Absolutely.

76

Alright, now before we dive in, we

do kick things off with our, um,

77

flagship segment, The Pair Program.

78

Uh, here's where we all kind of

go around the room, spitball a

79

complimentary pairing of our choice.

80

Mike, you always lead us off what,

what's, uh, your pairing for today?

81

So, yeah, uh, so I gave

it some thought, uh, like

82

Mike Gruen: what, two a minute of thought.

83

A good, good minute and a

half, two minutes and, uh,

84

no, and it just came to me.

85

Um.

86

Uh, fire pits and friends, uh, we just,

we've had a fire pit for a while and,

87

uh, the weather's been that like bright

time of, you know, in the evening,

88

having a fire and fighting people over.

89

Um, it's just nice, uh, just

nice way to spend the time and

90

I can just stare at a fire.

91

I don't know if anybody else can,

Think and just stared at a fire or

92

have a nice conversation, whatever.

93

Um, so yeah, that's my

94

Tim Winkler: pairing fire,

fire pits and friendship.

95

That's a solid, actually just celebrated

my birthday the other weekend.

96

And, uh, we rented a cabin out in

West Virginia and stayed up till, you

97

know, pretty, pretty wee hours in the

morning, just around the fire pit.

98

Something about it.

99

Yeah.

100

It's a, it's good, good bond.

101

Good stuff.

102

All right.

103

Yeah, we will accept that.

104

I'm pretty pumped for this one.

105

I'm going to present something that

I think will resonate with, with

106

our guests, um, got a frustratingly

perfect pairing for today.

107

I'm going to go with the

department of motor vehicles

108

and ridiculously long weights.

109

Um, so DMV and long waits, I think

this is a universal experience for

110

folks, something that everyone's

got, you know, a good story about,

111

um, just kind of navigating the

bureaucracy and inefficiencies

112

of some of our beloved DMVs.

113

Um, I, I do, uh, I do get excited when I

hear about technologies or, uh, innovative

114

solutions and ways to, to streamline this

and, and to, uh, shorten some of those

115

timelines, but, um, I'll also say that

there's something nice about uniting our

116

country when sharing these war stories

about long waits at the DMV, it seems like

117

something that everybody can relate to.

118

I mean, shared enemies are always nice.

119

So I'm going to stick with that.

120

I'm going, I'm going with DMVs

and, and ridiculously long waits.

121

Uh, with that, I'll pass it over to

our guest for their intros and pairing.

122

So Shane, how about a quick

intro and you're pairing?

123

Shane Bigelow: Well, thanks for having me.

124

I appreciate it.

125

Um, so I'm Shane Bigelow,

co founder and CEO of Champ.

126

Uh, yeah, my, my pairing, I probably

should have done something with the

127

industry, but, uh, you beat me to it.

128

Yeah.

129

Thankfully in our States, those weights

are getting to be a lot, lot shorter,

130

if not non existent as we move people

from paper to digital and let them do

131

the things they need to do with the DMV

from the comfort of their own homes.

132

But, uh, my parents a little more social.

133

I'm going with martinis and oysters.

134

Nice.

135

Tim Winkler: You want to expand on it?

136

Any, um, anything specific that you

love about the, the, the one, two punch?

137

You want to swallow that ice cube?

138

I didn't want to interrupt

your lunch there.

139

Sorry about

140

Shane Bigelow: that.

141

Late lunch.

142

Liquid lunch.

143

You're, you're having your oysters.

144

It's fine.

145

So, uh, you know, I just, I find that

when you're with friends and you can

146

order up The gluttonous amount of

oysters, uh, the, the, the right thing

147

to do is to pair it with a martini.

148

And I don't know, just something

about that together, just as a fun

149

experience that, you know, you don't

do that, but maybe a few times a year,

150

if you're lucky, um, it's just fun.

151

I got to do it recently with a couple

of great friends and my wife, uh, as

152

we, uh, we were on a trip together.

153

So just good memories.

154

That's

155

Tim Winkler: great.

156

You go, you go, uh, dirty

martini or you just go on just

157

straight, straight martini?

158

No,

159

Shane Bigelow: the only olives

I like are in the oil, but other

160

than that, I won't eat them.

161

Uh, so no, I'm, uh, it's, it's,

uh, it's, it's straight up.

162

Most people don't even think it's martini.

163

I, the way I order it is, uh,

up with a twist, no vermouth.

164

I only have to throw in the note

you for the, for the bartenders

165

that don't understand what up.

166

Just the bottle of vodka, please.

167

bottle of vodka ice,

168

.

Tim Winkler: Cheers to that.

169

Alright.

170

Good stuff.

171

Appreciate it.

172

Um, uh, Mike, how about yourself?

173

Quick, uh, intro and,

and uh, your pairing.

174

Michael Nannizzi: Sure.

175

So I'm Mike Nitzia.

176

Um, I run the venture arm for WR

Berkeley, Connecticut based property

177

and casualty insurance company.

178

I gonna say, so my, I don't know

why this came to mind, but it did.

179

Um.

180

I'm going to go with Lee Majors

and Heather Thomas, the fall

181

guy, because I think that was one

of the most perfect television

182

pairings I can remember as a kid.

183

So I'm going to go with that.

184

Nice.

185

Did you see the

186

Mike Gruen: movie?

187

I did not the movie is, uh, it's good.

188

I, I, it was an enjoyable, uh, we

went for mother's day actually.

189

It's my wife's choice.

190

It was a fun movie.

191

Oh, is that right?

192

Okay.

193

I might, I might do that.

194

And there were nice little

Easter eggs throughout.

195

Like it wasn't, they did a little bit,

uh, there's some nice like stuff in there.

196

Uh, so yeah, it was, it

was an enjoyable movie.

197

Yeah.

198

Michael Nannizzi: I liked the,

I mean the truck, there were

199

lots of things about the show.

200

I like,

201

Mike Gruen: yeah, I had the, I had

a matchbox car that was exactly

202

like the truck from the thing.

203

Tim Winkler: I don't think we've had any

like active actor pairings, like, I know,

204

I just think in that first, it's creative.

205

I think we need to bring in creative.

206

All right.

207

Good stuff.

208

Well, let's, uh, you know, make

the most of our time and jump into

209

the, the heart of our discussion.

210

So as I mentioned, we're going to be.

211

On unpacking this partnership between,

you know, champ and NWR Berkeley, uh,

212

on this episode and understanding how

this strategic partnership came to be.

213

But, you know, first and foremost, I

want to expand on the story and the.

214

Impact of, of champ.

215

So I'll start with you, Shane.

216

You know, what, what kind of inspired

you to, to start champ and describe

217

a little bit more about like the

problems that you're solving?

218

Shane Bigelow: Sure.

219

Uh, you know, there really

wasn't like a, an aha moment.

220

I think sometimes people think I

was waiting in line at the DMV.

221

I got to solve this.

222

It's like, it was really, you

know, 20 some odd years of

223

experiences in different industries.

224

My first startup was in the

automotive finance sector.

225

So I watched as lenders had a problem

getting liens on and off of car

226

titles and the inefficiency that

that created for lenders, the costs

227

that it added for the consumers.

228

It just felt a little bit

ridiculous, but I wasn't solving

229

that problem in that first startup.

230

I was solving a different

problem for lenders.

231

Fast forward a bit, I did a few other

things and at one stage wound up working

232

for a pretty large firm on wall street.

233

And one of the things we were trying to do

was to Put money to work around the world.

234

And one of the things you pretty

quickly realize is that in the developed

235

markets, we take it for granted that

we have these systems of record that

236

allow us to pretty easily get a home

loan, get a car loan, get a credit

237

card, uh, in the developing world, those

systems of record don't really exist.

238

And as a result, you know, lending is

stifled, insurance is stifled, um, the

239

ability for you to, you know, keep track

of your assets across generations is,

240

is stifled and it really hinders the

ability for those economies to grow.

241

And that, that just bothered me,

like, it just bothered me that

242

there was part of the world that.

243

Has every bit the skill set that

the rest of the world has, but

244

because the infrastructure of their,

um, their governmental systems,

245

they couldn't do what we could do.

246

And it really probably keeps people

poor longer than they ever should be.

247

Um, and so when I left wall street

and and decided with a good friend

248

to start this company, um, you

know, he was an automotive retail.

249

Yeah.

250

And we came together and said, you

know, this problem has been around for

251

a long time, this problem of how do

you make it easier for lenders to lend

252

insurers to ensure, uh, for consumers

to get these, these loans on cars to

253

trade their cars with their neighbors.

254

Why is this so hard?

255

Right?

256

Why is this so complex?

257

It really shouldn't be.

258

And we set out to try to solve

that problem by pursuing what we

259

refer to as a B to G to C model.

260

You know, we're the business, we go to

government, um, we convince government

261

to partner with us so that we can

replace their system of record, give

262

them a system of record that their

constituents, that's the C, that

263

their constituents really want, that

they, that, that moves at the speed

264

of the business of their constituents.

265

Because as you mentioned with the lines

of the DMVs, DMVs aren't generally known

266

for moving at the speed that people

want them to move at, but that might've

267

been acceptable 20 years ago when the

technology didn't really permit it.

268

Today, the technology permits it, and

it's more about the states finally

269

recognizing that they probably

shouldn't be a software company, right?

270

My biggest competitor is when states

decide that they're a software company.

271

And, um, the most states

are getting away from that.

272

And so all of this kind of came together

over, you know, 20 plus years to say, this

273

is a problem that we can solve in this

country and make the experience better

274

for consumers, make their costs lower,

allow lenders to have an easier path to

275

land insurers, an easier path to insure.

276

And, um, that's probably part of why,

besides my, uh, unabashedly awesome

277

looks that Mike and I came together, um,

you know, he was, I think, first just

278

attracted to, to, you know, this wonderful

face that I have and, um, all of the jowls

279

that have developed and the gray hair and

the wrinkles and all the other things.

280

Um, but also maybe a bit about how

we're trying to transform an industry

281

that, uh, doesn't change too often.

282

Michael Nannizzi: And for the

record, I, I actually had jet

283

black hair before I met you.

284

That gives you any indication.

285

Tim Winkler: That's true.

286

I have to imagine he took you out

for martinis and oysters to get

287

this kind of deal established.

288

I

289

Michael Nannizzi: mean, we,

we, we went out and had a few

290

drinks, uh, here and there.

291

No oysters.

292

No

293

Mike Gruen: oysters.

294

That's, that's only for friends, I guess.

295

Michael Nannizzi: Exactly.

296

Or, or people he's

really trying to impress.

297

Tim Winkler: Well, I want to expand on,

on the WR Berkeley side of things and how

298

they came to be, but I want to just pull

a bit more on the, the champ thread here.

299

Um, cause I was doing my own research

in terms of some of those benefits.

300

You talked to you cover to cover with

a couple of them, like efficiency

301

and bringing down the cost.

302

Uh, one of the things that stood out

to me, you know, was the, uh, impact

303

on, on the environment too, that

some of this has, can you, can you

304

just kind of briefly touch on that,

uh, expand on that benefit as well?

305

Shane Bigelow: Uh, yeah, sure.

306

By the way, just kind of a funny aside,

when you said efficiency, the, the way you

307

said it made me think of a fish in sea.

308

So, um, just never.

309

That never heard anyone say it like that.

310

So now I'm like, I'm chuckling inside.

311

So fish and

312

Tim Winkler: sea.

313

Shane Bigelow: Yeah.

314

You're right.

315

Sea.

316

Yeah.

317

Uh, well, you know, the, the, the sea,

as we all know, gets polluted because

318

people, um, don't take the time they

should to worry about the environment

319

or maybe do some of the basic things

that can be done to try to help it.

320

And, you know, I'm not, uh, I'm not out,

you know, um, hanging out protesting,

321

uh, companies or anything like that.

322

Um, I'm looking for places where

there's a place to really do something

323

basic that just simply helps, um,

the, the, you know, the environment

324

and the associated companies that,

that, that deal with these issues.

325

And so let me give you an example,

you wouldn't think that titling would

326

somehow solve an environmental problem.

327

Well, okay.

328

So there's the first part where maybe

we make things digital instead of paper.

329

So there's some, uh, a lot of trees, a

lot of paper that's saved, you know, paper

330

production is, is, is in its own way.

331

Um, not great for the world, but

nonetheless, so maybe that helps a bit,

332

but one of the really exciting places is

that, uh, when cars need to be recycled.

333

Uh, so they get in an accident

and they need to, uh, be parted

334

out so that the good parts can be

sold again and reused, uh, and the

335

bad parts can, can be disposed of.

336

Um, that's a tricky process, right?

337

Cars are one of the few

things in, uh, this world that

338

are 100 percent recyclable.

339

And I don't think people realize that.

340

So when you see these salvage yards

and you look at them and you say,

341

okay, so everything in there has value,

um, it's, it's somewhat intriguing.

342

Well, the problem is that, you know, 10

years ago, and Mike can tell you this

343

from the insurance side, 10 years ago,

6 percent of insurance claims were total

344

losses where the car was end of life

because of the, the complexity of the

345

accident or the damage to the vehicle.

346

Today, that number is 26 percent

of all claims are total losses.

347

Now, most of that has to do with the

added technology that's in cars that

348

makes it easier to do a lot of damage

quickly with even a minor accident.

349

But the reality is those cars, when

they're totaled, they go sit in a salvage

350

yard on average for about 55 days.

351

So they're leaking fluids, causing

problems, not being recycled, um, EVs

352

have a tendency because of the batteries

to catch on fire more frequently.

353

And so all of these things are doing bad

things to the earth and it's really no

354

one's fault because the salvage yards

are doing exactly what they should do.

355

Trying to shepherd this

car through to be recycled.

356

The recyclers want to buy the car

as fast as possible because the part

357

value is depreciating the longer they

have to wait to get the parts and the

358

insurance carrier that insured the car.

359

They want the car to be sold

quickly so they can recoup some of

360

what they paid out on that claim.

361

But you're waiting for 55 days for a

piece of paper from the government to say

362

that the policyholder who got the money

from the carrier is no longer the owner.

363

It's crazy.

364

It doesn't make any sense that it

should take that long and that that

365

car should have this opportunity

to do damage in the meantime.

366

So we speed that up to just a few hours.

367

And that's a huge change for the industry.

368

And it's a huge change

for the environment.

369

And so it's an easier way for these

salvage yards to become smaller, uh,

370

because they'll turn the cars faster.

371

So they need less land.

372

Um, and that's just one of the easy

things that can be done when technology

373

is applied in an area that you

wouldn't normally expect would have

374

a positive impact on the environment.

375

In fact, it has a pretty large

impact on the environment.

376

Tim Winkler: Yeah, I'm really glad

I asked the question because I was

377

thinking from the, from the trees and

the paper perspective and you flipped

378

it on me and open my mind up there.

379

It's, it's fascinating.

380

Um, I, I, I want to pass it over to Mike

now and, and just, you know, obviously

381

give us a little bit more, uh, background

on, you know, the unique approach that

382

WR Berkeley takes from an investment

perspective, why it's A different type

383

of approach than your traditional VC.

384

And then I'd love to hear how, you

know, the story between how you

385

and champ kind of got connected.

386

Michael Nannizzi: Sure.

387

Yeah.

388

I mean, uh, so, so just to back up, so

I joined Berkeley about seven and a half

389

years ago, and I joined a role that was

created to make financial investments

390

in technology companies where, where we

are a little different, I guess, is we

391

aren't managing other people's money.

392

And so we don't have, there's a

lot of venture firms raise, uh,

393

partner funds, limited partner

funds, and then deploy those.

394

And so we, we typically, and that has

a whole series of knock on effects.

395

We've kept it pretty simple.

396

We invest our own capital.

397

And so that's number one, I guess.

398

And number two is unlike a lot of

more traditional corporate venture

399

arms that have strategic requirements.

400

So they need to have their investments.

401

Uh, achieve some sort

of strategic imperative.

402

We don't have those either.

403

So that, that's sort of what makes us

unique is we're not structured like

404

traditional venture firms, but we

also don't tend to invest like more

405

traditional corporate venture arms.

406

Uh, and so, you know, our mandate and

my mandate is sort of pretty, pretty

407

broad, but our approach is pretty simple.

408

We want to invest in companies that.

409

Can create value for themselves and

their customers at the same time.

410

And that technology allows

them to do that at scale.

411

So pretty simple.

412

I think champ is a perfect

articulation of that.

413

And so that's generally sort of

how we think about the types of

414

models that we're interested in.

415

I'd say, but more important than that,

in terms of like the financial profile

416

and the opportunity, I really do see

us just investing in people, you know,

417

and we're, we need to make sure that we

believe in the leaders of these companies.

418

We need to make sure

that we can trust them.

419

That, that we can have the

kind of relationship that we're

420

trying to help them and they

want us to be successful too.

421

And I mean, these sound like really basic

attributes, uh, that any investor would

422

have and that any company would have,

but it doesn't always work that way.

423

And so I'm really proud of what we've

done and the companies we've invested in.

424

And sort of really proving

to them that this is what we

425

want to bring to the table.

426

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

427

Something that you mentioned in our

previous discovery call that I, I'd love

428

to hear a little bit more, maybe you can

use champ as a specific use case or, or

429

another, uh, company within the portfolio,

but the, the, the advantage of having

430

the footprint as an insurance company.

431

And the ability to kind of, you know,

plug and play, maybe, you know, your

432

portfolio's technology offerings into the

hands of real users, uh, maybe partners.

433

Uh, to, to, to try these products

in a true production environment.

434

Can, can you expand on that or share an

example of this and you can use champ

435

or you can use another example as well?

436

Michael Nannizzi: Sure.

437

Yeah.

438

I mean, I'm Shane, I imagine

you're all right with me talking

439

about what we did together.

440

Yeah.

441

I mean, I think there was a time, I

don't know, a couple of years ago,

442

maybe when Shane came to me and

said, you know, we would love to.

443

Be able to prove that we can process

a title for an incident in one

444

state through a different state.

445

And so we have a collection of

446

small insurance companies that all

do different things and lots of them

447

do those things in different places.

448

And so she said, we want to

process a title in this state.

449

And we'd like it to

come from another state.

450

And so he's okay.

451

So I found, you know, uh, an operating

unit at Berkeley that had auto

452

exposure and had claims that sort of

fit the profile Shane was asking for.

453

Uh, and so we asked them, we said, Hey,

listen, can we, can you try this out?

454

Can you try this out?

455

And, uh, and they said, sure.

456

And so we had to kind of jump through

a couple of hoops just because it is a

457

little different and Then, um, typically

the way insurance companies operate

458

and insurance companies are really good

at having processes in place that they

459

follow no matter what, and so we were

able to sort of get that, uh, to a point

460

where we could get it done and, and so we

were able to get that transaction done.

461

I don't, was it probably two years

ago, Shane, something like that.

462

Yeah.

463

Um, and then, you know, cause my

thought was like, like when I look

464

at companies and they say, here

are all the things we can do, it's

465

a very different bucket than when

companies say, here's what we've done.

466

So I, to the extent that we can help, you

know, our portfolio companies do that.

467

Um, you know, this was an opportunity to.

468

To make that, to make that happen.

469

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

470

And Shane, I guess I'm

from your perspective.

471

I mean, the, the value of something

like that, you know, obviously, you

472

know, capital is, is where everybody's

mind initially goes to when you're

473

thinking about, you know, uh, uh,

venture partner, um, but some of

474

those other areas, like I look at

this as like network access, right.

475

Um, incredibly valuable, you know, were

you anticipating that going into this?

476

Or I guess, what was your, your

thoughts when you kind of, you know,

477

experienced some of that value?

478

Shane Bigelow: You know, we've been lucky

in that, um, every round we we've done

479

since we started has been oversubscribed.

480

Um, and that we've had competing

term sheets all along the way.

481

But, uh, the reason why We initially

went with with Berkeley and they've

482

been involved in everything we've

done ever since then is, uh, it wasn't

483

because they had the highest valuation.

484

Um, they didn't.

485

It's because they were

the right partner, right?

486

They have the right culture.

487

They have the right, uh, I think, mindset

of stewardship over their companies that

488

isn't always the way you feel when you're

inside of a portfolio for a venture firm.

489

Um, but Berkeley is very different.

490

I mean, for all the way

from their CEO, Rob, who.

491

It's just an amazing CEO and leader, uh,

all the way down to the, the, the newest

492

of employees that we might interact

with on a particular transaction.

493

There's a, this mindset of care

and stewardship for what they're

494

a part of what they help create.

495

Um, it's an ownership.

496

Uh, the ethos that I don't think is,

is, is typical to find in companies.

497

And as we were going through the

initial process back in the series,

498

a, where we now just completed our

series C, but when we were going

499

back through the series, a, it was

really clear that they were different.

500

Uh, I didn't know, you know, you hear

from, from firms, uh, when they're

501

competing to put money in and you

hear from them, Oh, you know, we have.

502

Business units, you can try this out

and, you know, you kind of, you don't

503

know for sure until you actually try it.

504

Um, but boy, was it real, right?

505

We, we, we had a need, we

wanted to prove something out.

506

Um, we didn't want to, you know, try

to route through a long sales cycle to

507

convince someone we needed, we needed

an early adopter and who better than

508

someone who has already invested in

us, knows us, trusts us, we trust them.

509

And it, you know, it, it set, it set

a standard for a transaction that had

510

never occurred in the industry before.

511

And it told the industry

that this is possible.

512

And we just proved it not

in theory, but in reality.

513

And to Mike's point, uh, it was the

stepping stone for one of our largest

514

products that's in market today.

515

So, Um, yeah, it's very, very unique

dealing with, um, an investor that

516

has that type of, uh, mentality, care,

stewardship, and ownership ethos inside

517

of the way they, they live there.

518

Their daily business lives.

519

Mike Gruen: I would definitely just

coming from startups and having worked

520

with many different investors, it is

very rare to find that partnership that

521

like really that they're there for more

than just the, the, the outcome, right.

522

That they're there to help with the

journey and make the connections.

523

And, um, I think it is quite rare.

524

So that's awesome.

525

Um, and your point about the like

lower valuation, I think there's

526

too many founders that focus on that

number and not enough on, What's

527

who's giving me this money and where

are they going to be able to do?

528

Like, how are we going to help each

other beyond just this sort of.

529

Tim Winkler: And Mike, you, you

know, when we, when we first spoke

530

as well, you mentioned that you only

deal with a handful of companies

531

underneath the portfolio, and

that's a very intentional choice.

532

So, um, what, what kind of, what value

does that create for founders like Shane,

533

just being able to dedicate that much

more attention to a handful of folks?

534

Michael Nannizzi: I mean, I mean, that's

probably a good question for Shane.

535

I mean, if I think from our side, I just,

so my general approach is I don't like to

536

promise things that I'm not going to do.

537

I don't, we're, we're not trying to

institutionalize this effort, right?

538

We're not trying to scale.

539

You know, I talk about wanting

to invest in companies at scale.

540

We're not trying to scale this, right?

541

We're, we're trying to, I've

been here almost eight years.

542

We've made eight investments.

543

We don't invest in a lot of companies.

544

We're really careful about

who we want to work with.

545

And, uh, and we're gonna do everything

we can to help them get there.

546

And so part of the ethos for me is like.

547

If I did try to invest in 20 companies,

then if Shane needs me for something,

548

I'm not available because I'm in 19 other

board meetings that season, you know, it's

549

just, and, and I, there are, that does

happen more often than you might think.

550

And so we try to tell people

like, look, we're different.

551

We want to help.

552

We want to bring value where we can.

553

And so we limit ourselves to our

portfolio to make sure that we

554

don't stretch ourselves too thin.

555

Mike Gruen: I think that's the whole

stretching thin what ends up happening.

556

I plenty of friends that are in

VC, you know, that do this, they

557

just spend all their time with

the companies that are struggling.

558

They don't get to work with

the ones that are doing well.

559

They just spend their time on the

ones that are having problems and, um,

560

and, and not, you know, and I think,

you know, if you're a company that's

561

sort of in the middle, that sort of,

On the cusp, that means you're not

562

getting maybe that attention that you

need to really get to that next level.

563

I think, you know, so I think

that's really an awesome approach.

564

Tim Winkler: Shane, you're, you're dealing

with a number of different stakeholders.

565

Um, you referenced, you know, some of the,

the government stakeholders, what, what

566

are the biggest challenges that you feel

like you run into, um, you know, juggling

567

so many of these different stakeholders?

568

Shane Bigelow: You know, it

probably sits on a on 2 fronts.

569

The 1st is we're going through in, in

government, broadly speaking today, um,

570

Government in the United States is going

through this, uh, maturation process

571

where they're, they're finally stepping

out of, uh, the technology building.

572

Um, you know, I think for a long time,

governments thought of themselves

573

as, as software companies or, or it

companies and, you know, probably the

574

move from, um, on prem to cloud, right?

575

I can still remember

when governments were.

576

Creating their own clouds,

like you think about how silly

577

that is in hindsight, right?

578

Like, okay, Amazon and Google pretty

much have this one figured out for you.

579

Um, so, uh, you know, there's merit, I

suppose, in some, in some places within

580

government, uh, where you might need

that, but, but generally not right.

581

It's generally cheaper for the

constituents of government.

582

If you're using the private

sector and, um, You know, they're

583

creating technology for you.

584

So, so that, that's the first thing

to juggle is this change of mindset

585

within government that, uh, has

probably taken about 20 years to

586

take hold, but it's here, right?

587

They, it's very difficult to keep

up just with the expenses associated

588

with software production today, if

you're on a government salary, right?

589

My, my, the average wage of an

employee at champ probably far

590

exceeds the average head of a DMV.

591

In most states, right?

592

And that's not because we overpay.

593

It's because that's what

a software engineer costs.

594

Right?

595

And, and the reality is that if you

are paying for that talent, you're

596

generally creating pretty good technology.

597

It's not exclusive to us, right?

598

Other software companies

do the same thing.

599

Maybe even our competitors.

600

I don't know.

601

But, um, But I'm, I'm confident other

software companies do the same thing.

602

So that's the first thing that

juggle is that change because the

603

government doesn't move quickly.

604

So when they experience a change, it's,

it's pretty dramatic to their daily lives.

605

The second thing is that we've introduced

inventions into the market, right?

606

We, we referenced one that we, we did

with Mike, um, and, and with WR Berkeley.

607

Um, You know, but there have been others,

uh, the, the digital title, right?

608

It sounds for years, states are

talking about electronic titling.

609

Well, we have the first digital

title that truly is digital.

610

You know, it's gone from being

a paper based asset to now

611

being something that can live.

612

Entirely digitally and you know,

like, like the boarding pass for

613

airplanes, there's a, there's an

arc of change that you go through.

614

I remember when I was a kid, boarding

passes would be mailed to you

615

with carbon copy pieces of paper.

616

God forbid you lost the thing

or like, literally your dog ate

617

it or your mom threw it away.

618

Like, you couldn't get another 1 or it

cost you 100 bucks or something silly.

619

And then eventually the airlines

were like, well, you know what,

620

you can just print this at home

and people were like, Oh my God.

621

Okay.

622

Print it at home.

623

Now don't lose this.

624

And it's like, wait a minute.

625

Maybe I can lose it.

626

Maybe it really doesn't matter.

627

And then now today, you don't

even think twice about it.

628

It's on your phone, you know, and think

about what the airlines have been able

629

to do by going through that transition.

630

One, they've reduced the cost.

631

They've made it easier for the consumer.

632

Two, they've increased their

own revenue streams, right?

633

They've managed to now I go on the app.

634

What do I do?

635

I changed my seat.

636

I booked my bags.

637

I pay for oversize baggage.

638

Uh, I might upgrade myself.

639

Um, you know, uh, if, uh,

if the opportunity is there,

640

uh, I might pick a meal.

641

All right.

642

I might pay for my wifi.

643

All of these things are revenue streams.

644

Now apply that to government, right?

645

Government's under a tax crunch.

646

Like nobody wants to pay more in taxes.

647

But if the government supplying a

service that far exceeds what has been

648

available in the past, people have

shown a willingness to pay for it.

649

Now, we're not in this business,

but a great example is playing

650

on your joke from earlier on.

651

People will pay many state governments in

order to pay Reserve their spot in line

652

at the DMV, they'll pay 2, 5, 10, whatever

it is to reserve their spot simply

653

because they don't want to wait in line.

654

Well, that's great.

655

That's an extra 2, 5, 10 that the

government didn't force on anyone, but

656

made it an option that you could pursue.

657

So the government can

then collect less taxes.

658

They collect user fees from people that

are actually using the services and we're

659

doing the same thing in titling, right?

660

We're making it so that lenders

get a better way to put liens

661

on and off of their titles.

662

Car dealers get a better way to

title their cars and move their

663

assets and their inventory around.

664

Insurance carriers can do the total loss

solving of titling like we talked about

665

earlier with the environmental example.

666

All of that comes with incremental

benefits that benefit those companies,

667

benefit their bottom lines, benefit their

ability to compete with their competitors.

668

If they're doing it before everybody

else, but it was supplied from government.

669

So government should generate some

more income as a result of that.

670

And the users not.

671

Everybody in the system, but

just the users are paying for it.

672

So it's very fair in terms of the cost

allocation for who picks up the tab.

673

Um, and it's not the

silliness of government.

674

Um, you know, like, like, Okay.

675

Let me back up.

676

The, the silliest thing that occurs in

government is that they put out a bid

677

for a contract, and then they pay the

vendor upfront, like what other industry

678

actually pays upfront before the service?

679

You don't even pay your

doctor upfront, right?

680

You and, and so.

681

Somehow the government is doing

it exactly the opposite of the

682

way that makes rational sense.

683

They're paying a vendor up front

a ton of money for a five year,

684

six year, ten year project.

685

So the government, the vendor's

incentives have immediately gone

686

to zero to do anything quickly

or anything particularly well.

687

They're collecting maintenance

fees every year on top of it.

688

And the government just has to

sit back and wait for the vendor.

689

Like this is the silliest

use of tax dollars.

690

If, if all government contracts went

to a place where they're only paying

691

the vendor for performance for actually

changing the behavior that we wanted in

692

our case, moving someone from using paper.

693

To being digital, then imagine how much

more efficient that capital is allocated.

694

And by the way, the government

doesn't have to pay vendors like

695

us, the users pay for using it.

696

And we could rip so much

excess out of government.

697

If we started to change contracting

and the way we think about it that way.

698

And, um, and the reality is like, that's

all the stuff we're juggling right now.

699

Government's realizing that they can.

700

That they can actually make this change

out of building technology, that they

701

don't need to pay these vendors up front,

that they can pursue a transaction based

702

model, provided that the constituents

are actually getting something better.

703

And, you know, I take a lot of pride

in the fact that what we deliver

704

through government is better than what

was there before, because I'm, I'm

705

definitely not here to sit around and

just take a big government contract and.

706

And say, hooray, that's not the point.

707

Mike Gruen: Well, can I just say that

having worked in government contracting,

708

you miss an important part, which is not

just the incentive to move slowly, but

709

to actually not complete stuff, because

that's how you get add ons and follow ons.

710

And there was a number of years

ago, I forget what it was.

711

It was, I know it was New York state

was suing one of the, like one of

712

the big contracting companies that

they'd hired to build out something.

713

And, uh, And that company did exactly

what New York state asked them to do.

714

And New York state's like, we hired

you because you're the experts.

715

Like, you knew that this was going

to fail and you did it anyway.

716

And they New York state, it was

like one of the few times I've seen

717

the state actually win the case.

718

But like the whole thing was like

the vendor knew from, from go

719

that this was never going to work.

720

And they were like, yeah, of course

we wanted to do that because then

721

there's the follow on work to fix it.

722

Like just insane.

723

So, I mean, there's so much there.

724

It's not just like, I don't know.

725

Government contracting is a, is

a, is a brutal place for like,

726

when you think about the amount

of just waste wasted money.

727

Um, on these things and on these, on

these things, you know, where, you

728

know, and so it's nice to see, I think,

especially where you're talking about,

729

um, a platform where it's interacting

with government, but it's also into,

730

you know, there's other players in this.

731

It's not just some platform.

732

The government is building

for themselves, right?

733

Like, there's all these other things

that have to interact with it.

734

And if every state government

is doing their own or.

735

Then it becomes that much harder for a

comp, you know, for all these companies

736

and other players to integrate and

work with those across multiple States.

737

So I think that's really,

738

Michael Nannizzi: I think 1 of the things

that, I mean, what we, we always loved

739

about, uh, champion, you know, Shane's

vision was, um, to sort of turn the

740

government model a little bit on its head.

741

And we had a company that was

looking to do some work before with.

742

With governments and, and they sort of

stopped because the model is so difficult.

743

It's like you tender something,

it's sort of a big number.

744

And then the maximum that you

could charge later is a percentage.

745

And then.

746

You're making your value for

them is going like this and

747

they're paying you like this.

748

It just doesn't make sense.

749

And the fact that Shane figured out

how do we give the state something that

750

actually doesn't just deliver something

that their customers will want and will

751

pay for, but it actually could end up

improving the fiscal situation of the

752

states themselves, you know, and that

I thought was really smart because.

753

In the end, I mean, that's what,

that's what you're trying to do.

754

Like sure, the better experience,

but better experience and

755

also better financial outcome.

756

Right.

757

And I think that that, that to me was

what, what always got my attention with

758

Shane and, and, and with Champ is that.

759

You know, they didn't just go at

solving the problem the same way that

760

other people solve the problem, just

with more technology, they actually

761

flipped the business model over in a

way that I think is super compelling.

762

Shane Bigelow: It's really, yeah, sorry.

763

I know one of the things that, um,

you know, is sort of, I think core

764

to our, our set of beliefs is that,

um, there's a, there there's a,

765

there's a right way to be a citizen.

766

Right now, I happen to be fiscally

conservative and socially liberal, but

767

in my view, any citizen that abuses.

768

Government spending is abuse, is

abusing themselves at the same time.

769

It's our money.

770

We paid the taxes, right?

771

They're taking our money

and reallocating it.

772

If we're not responsible with the way

the government's doing that, and we're

773

not putting controls on it, we're not

giving them in the private sector, the

774

right incentives, their behaviors, not

going to create the outcomes we want.

775

Right.

776

I can tell you, and anyone can tell

anyone exactly how someone will behave.

777

As soon as you understand

their incentives.

778

And the incentives attached

to a vendor that gets paid up

779

front are generally pretty bad.

780

The incentives for government

who doles the money out up

781

front are generally pretty bad.

782

But if you make it pay for performance and

you partner, that's the, that's the way

783

public private partnerships should work.

784

Like the rising tide lifts everybody.

785

And you've done it with capital

efficiency, that means taxpayer

786

dollar efficiency, and we lack that.

787

And it's part of the reason

why we have, you know, 30 some

788

odd trillion of debt right now.

789

Mike Gruen: I mean, I

790

Shane Bigelow: think that's, I

791

Mike Gruen: mean, that gets into why

it's so, I think, slow to change as well,

792

is that if you look at how government

generally has The incentives, if you

793

work in government, a lot of times,

it's based on how big is your budget.

794

How many people are working for you?

795

That's why we end up having a lot of it

projects and other things that are housed

796

within an agent within this government.

797

And there's a lot of work trying to

shift that more towards purchasing

798

the purchasing outside and.

799

Being more value based is, is it's

happening, but it's slow, but it's

800

nice to see that it's happening.

801

Okay.

802

Tim Winkler: Yeah, we run, we run a number

of episodes centered around dual use and,

803

um, the injection of commercial technology

to, to help streamline, modernize,

804

you know, government technologies.

805

And a lot of that stuff really comes

smashing in the face when you hear the

806

stories of folks that are warfighters

out there trying to get access to

807

some sort of a, you know, piece of

information, but they can't do it.

808

They can't streamline the

technology because they didn't

809

go through this one policy.

810

And then, you know, they never really

adapted to a more modern technology

811

to make it more streamlined and, you

know, get that information quicker and

812

folks lost their lives because of it.

813

And then you, you really hear stories

of folks coming on and being very

814

passionate about why they're determined

to, you know, change the way things have

815

been and tried to break down, you know,

some of these regulations that are.

816

So slow to, uh, inject, you know,

better technology into the system.

817

So it's, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's

an area that we're, you know, we're

818

big advocates on, on the, on the

podcast and our community at large.

819

Um, I think it's really interesting what

you guys are doing, uh, you know, in prep

820

for, for this, I was talking to a couple

of friends about, you know, what you all

821

do and, you know, it's, it's odd to think

about, but it is, it's such an archaic

822

thing, but everybody knows they've got

that paper title somewhere tucked away.

823

That's just God.

824

Yeah.

825

Piles of dust in their old file cabinet.

826

And it's like, I don't know

why it's there, but it's there.

827

Um, what

828

Shane Bigelow: states are you operating

in, uh, West Virginia, New Jersey,

829

Kentucky and, uh, soon Illinois.

830

Excellent.

831

Tim Winkler: Excellent.

832

And I'm sure there's a, uh, strategic

roadmap to continue to build on that.

833

We're, we're definitely rooting

for you all and excited for the

834

progress that you made at this point.

835

Um, Mike, you know, you, it sounds

like a great partnership that you will

836

have found and, uh, I respect and,

uh, admire the, you know, the, the

837

model that you all have with being

very diligent and intentional with.

838

It's a handful of, of portfolio

companies and working with a select

839

number of founders that, you know, that

you can add value with, I think it's a

840

really, really strategic partnership.

841

And, um, you don't see it very often.

842

So kudos to you all as well.

843

I want to transition and close this out

with the, uh, the final segment to the

844

episode with the five second scramble.

845

Here's where we, we go around, do a

quick little rapid fire of Q and a.

846

Uh, uncover your deepest, darkest secrets.

847

I'm joking.

848

It's not very light,

very lightweight, fun.

849

Uh, Mike, you're, you're going to

lead us off with, uh, Shane, and

850

then I will get with you, Mike.

851

Not at all.

852

Confused.

853

I will

854

Mike Gruen: be doing the first round

of questions with you, Shane, if that

855

helps clarify things, uh, which, which

Mike is, which, uh, having the name

856

Mike means I'm sure Mike also feels

this way that we, it comes up a lot.

857

Uh, anyway, uh, so yeah, so

I'll ask you some questions,

858

uh, and they will be different.

859

So, uh, they're not, you know, you

don't look at the same questions.

860

There's a little bit of overlap sometimes.

861

All right, here we go.

862

Uh, explain champ as if

I were a five year old.

863

We build new systems for DMVs.

864

Uh, what type of

technologists thrive at Champ?

865

Shane Bigelow: The kind that treat no

as a stumbling block on the way to yes.

866

Nice.

867

Um,

868

Mike Gruen: what's the biggest, uh,

869

Uh,

870

Shane Bigelow: in the aggregate of tech

execs, um, probably the underlying,

871

um, fracture in the economy where, uh,

I think a third of the country is in

872

a really severe recession, the third

is, Not saving spending every dollar.

873

And a third has no idea that this is

going on with the other two thirds.

874

So the knock on effect is that, uh,

you wind up having really disparate

875

views of what correct compensation is.

876

And, uh, it's hard to manage

that because you lose people.

877

Um, because of reasons that, uh, are

external to your company, uh, the,

878

the, it's their own fiscal constraints,

their spending issues, the amount of

879

inflation they're dealing with at home.

880

Um, it's a complex problem, but complex,

maybe more of an answer than you want it.

881

Mike Gruen: No, that's, that was

probably one of the best answers.

882

That was really great.

883

I'm just, I'm just taking it in.

884

Uh, uh, what's the best piece of

advice you've ever been given?

885

Um, if you're not living for the

story, then you're just not living.

886

Uh, what's a book every

887

Shane Bigelow: entrepreneur should read?

888

Uh, the monk and the

riddle by Randy commissar.

889

Mike Gruen: Hold on

while I write that down.

890

Uh, all right.

891

Uh, what's something you did as

a kid that you still enjoy doing?

892

Um, playing soccer.

893

Tim Winkler: Cool.

894

Mike Gruen: What position?

895

Defense.

896

Me too.

897

Uh, back when I played

now, I don't play so much.

898

Uh, what's the, uh, largest

land animal you think you

899

could take in a street fight?

900

No weapons, just bare hands.

901

Like a bunny rabbit,

902

Shane Bigelow: maybe?

903

I've got this answer we've never received.

904

It's so old and slow.

905

Like, I couldn't catch the

rabbit, but I suppose if we were

906

actually in a fight, I'd know.

907

Not the one from Monty

908

Mike Gruen: Python, I assume.

909

Uh, what's the most outdated

piece of tech you can't let go?

910

Oh God.

911

Shane Bigelow: Uh, I don't know.

912

I am like tech forward

as much as I can be.

913

Um,

914

I just probably like the cords in my car.

915

I, I still use them more than you

probably need to for given all the

916

Bluetooth and everything that's available.

917

Mike Gruen: What's a charity or corporate

philanthropy that's near and dear to you?

918

Shane Bigelow: Uh, there's an

organization here in Northeast Ohio.

919

They're, they're versions of

this throughout the country.

920

Um, that's an organization

called blue coats.

921

Um, when, uh, a first responder is,

is killed, uh, in the line of duty.

922

So, you know, fire, police, ambulatory,

whomever, um, those families are left

923

with a lot of needs, mortgages, schools.

924

Bills, funeral expenses,

the list goes on and on.

925

Um, organizations like blue coats around

the country generally step in very

926

quietly to, uh, to be there to help.

927

Um, it's not a political statement.

928

It's a reality of someone put

their life on the line for us.

929

And the least we could do

for them is stand in their

930

shoes while they're not here.

931

Mike Gruen: Uh, last one.

932

Uh, if you could live in any fictional

universe, uh, which one would you choose?

933

Shane Bigelow: Oh, um,

934

uh, what's that movie with most deaf?

935

Um, where it ends with

the dolphin at the end?

936

Uh, gosh, that was a good one.

937

It's like, uh, oh God, I'm blanking on it.

938

This is gonna bug me and ask, ask

Mike's question and I'll secretly

939

Google it in the background.

940

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

941

Yes.

942

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

943

That would be where I'd live.

944

Yeah.

945

Awesome.

946

Yeah.

947

Great.

948

Great reference.

949

It ends with the dolphin.

950

I'm pretty sure that was the

movie and that I was definitely

951

sober when I watched it.

952

Mike Gruen: All right.

953

Good stuff.

954

Tim Winkler: Good stuff.

955

All right.

956

Uh, Mike, are you ready?

957

I mean, I guess let's do it.

958

Um, what, what is your favorite

stage of startup to, to work with

959

Michael Nannizzi: post revenue pre scale?

960

Tim Winkler: What's the biggest

pain point you would say facing

961

startup founders in 2024?

962

Michael Nannizzi: Making good decisions

about who they choose to partner with.

963

Tim Winkler: What's one trait

that you find consistently in

964

great founders from startups?

965

Michael Nannizzi: Uh, honesty is.

966

An underappreciated trait.

967

Tim Winkler: What would you say are

the top two areas that you add the most

968

value for founders across your portfolio?

969

Michael Nannizzi: Try to limit the advice

we give to things we actually know about.

970

Tim Winkler: What's an area of tech that

you're most excited to see impact the

971

insurance industry in the next five years?

972

Uh,

973

Michael Nannizzi: oof.

974

Um,

975

gosh, I don't.

976

I don't know, uh, the reality

is because I don't invest just

977

for the insurance industry.

978

I don't, I'm not, I don't

know that I'm best equipped.

979

Um, is there just an area of

tech that you're excited about?

980

I mean, look, I think all of this.

981

Insurance companies have a ton of

data and still are trying to figure

982

out exactly what to do with it.

983

So I do think sort of predictive data,

using data to make better decisions.

984

I mean, this is before all of that AI.

985

But I would say tools that

help insurance companies better

986

leverage data to make decisions.

987

Okay.

988

What, what's the favorite country

that you've ever traveled to and why?

989

Favorite country I've ever traveled to.

990

Um, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm

gonna twist a little bit.

991

Most recent, uh, country I've traveled

to that I was surprised how much

992

I like to, like, I went to China a

few years ago and it was amazing.

993

It was an amazing country.

994

I thought it was gonna be really crowded

and really difficult to get around.

995

And it was.

996

Western and beautiful.

997

And yeah, I mean, so many things

about it that were surprising.

998

Um, really enjoyed it.

999

What's a

00:53:42,050 --> 00:53:44,630

Tim Winkler: charity or a corporate

philanthropy that's near and dear to you?

00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:47,990

Michael Nannizzi: Uh, we've

been getting closer to a group

00:53:48,030 --> 00:53:49,960

called the Jed foundation.

00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,200

I don't know if you're familiar with it.

00:53:52,090 --> 00:53:58,150

Um, it's a group around helping

provide mental health, uh, support

00:53:58,150 --> 00:54:04,560

services to high schools and

universities sort of really targeting,

00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,210

um, the mental health crisis among.

00:54:07,685 --> 00:54:08,285

Adolescence.

00:54:08,965 --> 00:54:13,105

And so that's a group that we've, my

family's been getting a lot closer

00:54:13,105 --> 00:54:15,145

to, I think it's an important issue.

00:54:15,575 --> 00:54:16,185

It's wonderful.

00:54:16,395 --> 00:54:16,585

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

00:54:16,585 --> 00:54:19,485

Well, and we'll include both,

both of those, uh, charities

00:54:19,485 --> 00:54:21,095

into the share notes as well.

00:54:21,105 --> 00:54:22,365

Just build some awareness for them.

00:54:22,955 --> 00:54:25,605

Uh, if you could have dinner

with any tech icon, past or

00:54:25,605 --> 00:54:26,735

present, who would it be with

00:54:28,395 --> 00:54:28,795

Michael Nannizzi: dinner?

00:54:29,295 --> 00:54:29,575

Oh man.

00:54:29,575 --> 00:54:30,234

I mean.

00:54:31,005 --> 00:54:34,785

Steve jobs, I think would be the one if

I could, but you like being insulted.

00:54:34,785 --> 00:54:39,915

It's actually part of the

reason I became an investor.

00:54:42,425 --> 00:54:42,845

I'm good at

00:54:42,845 --> 00:54:44,335

Tim Winkler: taking, taking insults.

00:54:45,315 --> 00:54:48,505

What, uh, what's the worst fashion

trend that you've ever followed?

00:54:50,605 --> 00:54:55,214

Oh man, the hammer pants.

00:54:56,595 --> 00:54:56,755

Michael Nannizzi: We're

00:54:56,755 --> 00:54:57,025

Tim Winkler: going to need

00:54:57,025 --> 00:54:59,725

Michael Nannizzi: a photo,

uh, for credibility for that.

00:55:01,935 --> 00:55:02,974

Hammer pants were a big deal.

00:55:03,225 --> 00:55:04,815

Part of my high school repertoire.

00:55:05,015 --> 00:55:06,145

Only on Fridays though.

00:55:06,515 --> 00:55:07,435

Tim Winkler: Friday, hammer pants.

00:55:07,875 --> 00:55:08,285

It's good.

00:55:09,195 --> 00:55:09,555

All right.

00:55:09,625 --> 00:55:10,735

Uh, closing question.

00:55:10,775 --> 00:55:13,585

Uh, what is, what was

your dream job as a kid?

00:55:16,015 --> 00:55:19,095

Michael Nannizzi: What's

my dream job as a kid?

00:55:20,475 --> 00:55:21,675

Man, it's a tough one.

00:55:21,705 --> 00:55:22,385

Um,

00:55:26,935 --> 00:55:29,225

I think, I mean, I

wanted to be an athlete.

00:55:30,565 --> 00:55:36,945

I thought that, that, that would,

uh, happen and it did not athlete

00:55:37,155 --> 00:55:37,845

Tim Winkler: investor.

00:55:37,995 --> 00:55:39,915

Michael Nannizzi: Yeah, exactly.

00:55:39,915 --> 00:55:43,235

So it's close, but close at all.

00:55:43,975 --> 00:55:48,705

Um, but I will say my son who like,

likes to play basketball, he, uh,

00:55:49,365 --> 00:55:53,515

He asked me one time, I was putting

him in bed and he was very serious.

00:55:53,585 --> 00:55:58,535

And he's like, dad, what are we going

to do if the warriors retire number 30?

00:56:01,205 --> 00:56:06,595

And I was like, I guess you'll have to

have them give you a different number.

00:56:07,465 --> 00:56:10,265

His view was, I'm going

to play for the warriors.

00:56:11,095 --> 00:56:17,025

So maybe he'll get his,

and if I didn't get mine,

00:56:18,855 --> 00:56:19,415

Tim Winkler: I love it.

00:56:19,485 --> 00:56:21,065

Uh, all right, well, that's a wrap.

00:56:21,065 --> 00:56:24,165

I do appreciate you both spending

the time with us on the pod.

00:56:24,545 --> 00:56:27,775

Uh, excited for the future of

URLs partnership as well, and

00:56:27,775 --> 00:56:28,785

wishing you guys best of luck.

00:56:29,655 --> 00:56:30,555

Thank you so much.

00:56:30,565 --> 00:56:32,235

Appreciate the opportunity to be here with

00:56:32,235 --> 00:56:34,466

you.