00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:09 Discussion on Dispensationalism

00:41 The Abrahamic Covenant and Its Modern Implications

03:16 Classic vs. Progressive Dispensationalism

06:40 First Kings Chapter 9 Overview

09:48 Second Chronicles Chapter 8 Overview

10:50 Old Testament Salvation and the Role of the Holy Spirit

15:55 Conclusion and Prayer

Find out more about Compass Bible Church.

Learn more about our Bible Reading Plan.

Questions or Comments? Email us podcast@compassntx.org

Hey everybody.

2

Welcome back to another edition

of the Daily Bible Podcast.

3

Hello and good morning.

4

So let's kick something

around for a second.

5

I'm happy to kick anyone you want me to.

6

Awesome.

7

'cause yesterday I did talk about

dispensationalism and everybody

8

left the church and so it was crazy.

9

Everybody got angry and just stormed

church or did they get raptured?

10

Do we know?

11

I hope we're not still here if

that's the case, because then our

12

theology would be suss at least.

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No.

14

If they all got rapture,

our theology would be right.

15

It's just that we would be suss.

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Rod: Yeah.

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That's very fair point.

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PJ: Yeah.

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No, but I and I said this with our

leaders and going through the Pres sermonm

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preview video that I send out, but.

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It wasn't satisfying for me, and I'm

sure it wasn't satisfying for a lot

22

of people out there because just, it's

not the time and place to go in depth.

23

And so it's not gonna scratch every itch.

24

It's not gonna answer every question.

25

One of the questions that was

raised actually by Lewis, 'cause

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I was talking with him a little

bit about after church on Sunday,

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this not after church on Sunday.

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Before, during the week leading up, I

was working with him on some different

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things, different ideas, and I brought

up to him and I, Genesis 12 three.

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The Abraham and Covenant, those who

bless Israel will be blessed and

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those who curse Israel will be cursed.

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In context.

33

That's, I think, dealing

with the nations primarily.

34

I think that's dealing with the nations

that bless Israel will be blessed.

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The nations that curse

Israel will be cursed.

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I guess my question would be, and I'd

love to get your thoughts on this, is

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there an application for us, number

one, nationally, today still in regards

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to our relationship with Israel as

a nation, and number two, is there

39

an application to that individually?

40

I.

41

As pertains to Genesis 12 three, as far

as if our nation were to say, Hey, we're

42

not gonna be an ally with Israel anymore.

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Are there blessings for us individually?

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If we will support Israel, pray

for Israel, and so forth and so

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on, even if we're not in a country

that has an alliance with them.

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That's a really interesting question.

47

Rod: I don't think I've ever

thought about that question ever.

48

But now that you raise it, but now

that I raise it, I do have initial

49

thoughts about it that, okay, so let's

start with the fact, I agree with you.

50

The context of that blessing to

Abraham in Genesis 12 and 15 is

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about the surrounding nations.

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And I agree it's gonna be largely

corporate in its application.

53

Those who bless will,

bless those who curse.

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Of course.

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I don't see a negation of that.

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And so my knee, re knee jerk reaction, my

gut reaction is that's still in, in vogue.

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Because Abrahamic Covenant, I

think still in some ways applies.

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It's not the same as it was under

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, et cetera,

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but that the idea of God fulfilling

his promises to Abraham, which were

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unilateral, are still yet to be future.

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And so I would say that the.

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Covenants still has applications

that are relevant for us today, which

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would include the blessing of Israel.

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Now a question is, what

does that look like?

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How do you bless them?

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Is it giving them money during

time of aid where they need that?

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Is it praying for them?

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And I think maybe those

are fine applications.

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I think that's at least part of it.

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And here's what's interesting is because

we believe that Israel has a future,

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that God has predestined them to.

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God's going to ensure that they survive.

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The question is how God will do that

and by what means He keeps him alive

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and here's what we've said before.

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God accomplishes his sovereign purposes

through means through some agency

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where it's either human agency or

divine agency through angelic hosts.

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It could be a lot of things.

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So I think, and I'm gonna

just offer it that way.

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I don't want to pound the table, but I

think this is still in vogue in some way.

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PJ: Yeah, it's so

interesting because God's.

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This dispensation and yesterday I

talked about the classic dispensational

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list gives you seven dispensations.

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The progressive dispensational

list gives you four dispensations,

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which I think are just a little

cleaner and easier to think about.

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And if we're in the ecclesial

dispensation, the church age, that

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from Pentecost until the rapture.

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This is the church age.

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And that's real quick.

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Rod: You're using terminology that

some people may not be familiar with.

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Sure.

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Classic versus progressive.

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When you say progressive, do you

mean like politically progressive?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Liberal.

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You mean super

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PJ: liberal and, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, don't understand.

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Thanks for stopping me around that.

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Progressive meaning the key distinction

there is classic dispensationalism would

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say that there is a heavenly people

of God and an earthly people of God.

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The heavenly people of

God would be the church.

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The earthly people of God would

be Israel in the eternal state.

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There's still gonna be a distinction in

classic dispensationalism that Israel

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will be separate from the church,

that the two will not co-mingle,

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that there won't be any confusion.

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Therein, progressive moves a little bit.

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Further towards the continuity side of

the spectrum from the discontinuity side

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of the spectrum, meaning that there is,

there are distinctions presently that

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the church has not superseded Israel, not

replaced Israel, that there's a future

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for Israel for sure, and there are still

promises to be fulfilled in Israel.

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However, there's been an inauguration

of some of those promises presently

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in the life of the church and already

not yet that we're experiencing

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some of those blessings, not.

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All of those blessings.

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Israel is gonna experience the fullness

of those covenants in the future with

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the return of Christ, the millennial

kingdom, and so forth and so on.

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But really after God has brought those

fulfillments to completion, that there

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is more in the eternal state a one

people of God entity that we are not

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separated out as the church and Israel.

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But I think e even the imagery of

the tree being and the grafting

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end of the tree from Paul in Romans

chapter 11, or when Paul talks about.

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In Ephesians the breaking down of the

dividing wall of hostility to take the two

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people and make them one in progressive

dispensationalism, they would say the

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future of the eternal state is one wherein

the church and the, and Israel, the people

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of God are together as one people of God.

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There's not a distinction as much

an identity anymore at that point.

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And so that's how it differs from

classic dispensationalism there.

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Rod: Super helpful.

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So do you believe then that God.

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We'll bless you according to

what we just talked about.

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You bless Israel.

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PJ: And that's what's so interesting

is because of our current dispensation.

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Israel is not.

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They're not iden I in their

identity presently walking

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in obedience to the Lord.

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True.

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And so to say is their blessing

for blessing in an unregenerate

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rebellious people right now, what

does that even look like to bless a

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people that are like, how would you

bless a Muslim country right now?

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Like, how do you, certainly God

doesn't want us to do that, so does

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God want us to bless and unregenerate.

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Com country simply because there's

a future for them in God's economy.

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I'm with you.

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I the promises that Abraham and Covenant

are unconditional, those are still

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in operation and they will come to

fruition and fulfillment in the future.

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I just don't know in this present

dispensation if the blessing and cursing

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motif for others and how they treat

Israel is still an application today.

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That's fair.

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God, they could be under God's

judgment and a discipline right now.

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The very same reasons

that you discussed now.

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Where we don't wanna go is what's risen

in vogue today, and that is antisemitism.

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So we don't wanna become people that

are like Israel deserves this and

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why would you care about Israel?

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They're unredeemed.

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They're unregenerate.

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No, God still has a future for them and

they are once again going to be the people

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of God with his affection set upon them.

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Right now he's focused on the church,

but there's still a future for them.

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So yeah.

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On all agree these things to say.

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Yeah.

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Interesting.

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Alright, let's jump into first

Kings chapter nine and second.

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Chronicles Chapter eight,

one Kings chapter nine, the

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first part of this chapter.

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The Lord responds to Solomon's prayer,

which we've seen already and confirms

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that yes, he will hear from heaven and

he will honor the covenant commitment to

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Israel and to Solomon, so long as they

honor their covenant commitments to him.

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And so there are some stipulations

given here for God's covenant

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relationship with the people.

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These are conditions that he says,

if you do this, then I will do this.

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I will respond this way.

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And so he's laying out these.

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Instructions here for Solomon.

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Unfortunately, from here,

it's not gonna go well.

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The future kings are not gonna

walk in the way of Solomon.

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By and large.

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Some of them will, but a lot of them

will not, especially all of the ones

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in the Northern Kingdom will not

walk in the way of the Lord there.

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Second half of the chapter, then

the author of First Kings here

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gives us a rundown of some of

Solomon's later accomplishments.

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So included in this is this unique

interaction between Solomon and

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Hiram, where the former Solomon gives

Hiram these 20 towns in Galilee.

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But Hiram basically says what are these?

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Why did you give these to me?

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I, and it gives them a name that basically

is the phonetically the equivalent

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of the Hebrew word for worthless.

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He's thanks a lot for nothing here.

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Nothing.

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In fact, I think eventually it

gives him back, but yeah, just

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Solomon's accomplishments there in

the second half of one Kings nine.

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Rod: Yeah.

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I love this chapter because it does

provide us a few clues into their

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future, and it's helpful to understand

maybe where Solomon might've gone wrong.

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Let's look at verse seven, then.

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I'll cut off Israel from the land

that I have given them and the

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house that I have consecrated for.

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My name, I'll cast out of my

sight, so God is saying I care

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so much more about your heart.

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Connected to me about your genuine

worship to me rather than I, than

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caring about the building itself.

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And so he says, I'd rather

destroy the temple if it means

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that you don't continue in sin.

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And you see something of a parallel

in the New Testament where you have

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God saying in one Corinthians through

the penal one Corinthians 11, that

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if someone's taking the bread in an

unworthy fashion, I'd rather kill

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you than let you continue in sin.

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So you see some connectedness there.

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God cares a lot about our connection

to him, that it be genuine, real,

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authentic and that it not be.

213

Simply affectation that you're just

putting on a show and that maintains.

214

That maintains not only in

the Old Testament, but the

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New Testament one leak here.

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Verse 21.

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It says here, there are descendants

who were left after them in the

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land whom the people of Israel were

unable to devote to destruction.

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Here you have something about

Israel's history to this point where

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they failed to remove the people

that they were supposed to remove.

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And for this very reason, this

is why we believe that God

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was not finished with Israel.

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The promises that he made to them, even

though they were enacted in some way,

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in a partial way, it was not complete.

225

It was not full because they

did not do what God told 'em to

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do, at least in its entirety.

227

And therefore, even though it's

true that they didn't occupy the

228

land and that Solomon experienced

really great prosperity in a, in

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large borders, it was never to

the full extent that God promised.

230

That little line right there tells us that

there's something that's not yet finished.

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Which is why, again,

we are dispensational.

232

PJ: Yeah.

233

In fact, OAI even talks about that

in the restoration of the land in

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Oai that we talked about yesterday.

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It's the territories that he in

initially gave Joshua to fulfill.

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So that future restoration is one

that, to your point, is not done yet.

237

And still in the future here I.

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That's right.

239

Second Chronicles chapter eight.

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A lot of this parallels what we

find in One Kings Chapter nine.

241

Second Chronicles eight, two, I mentioned

the cities that Solomon gave Hiram.

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It says Solomon rebuilt the cities

that Hiram had given to him.

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Some people think these are

the same cities that Hiram was

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like, thanks, but no thanks.

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Why don't you take these back?

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The fact that he rebuilds 'em tells

you that he probably didn't think

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they were that great either, right?

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He's oh, wow.

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Let's do over.

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These are awful.

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Oh, you don't want those?

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Okay, then let's let's drop

some new plans for him.

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Yeah.

254

And then the other thing that

stands out to me is verse 11.

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Here.

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Solomon brought Pharaoh's daughter up

from the city of David to the house that

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he had built for her and said, my wife

shall not live in the house of David, the

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king of Israel, for the places to which

the ark, the Lord has come, are holy.

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Which would imply that Solomon

knew Yeah, not good enough, right?

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Like he knew that this was

not a right thing to do.

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He knew that this was wrong.

262

He knew he shouldn't be taking this

woman as a, as his wife, and yet.

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He did it anyways.

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Which again is one of his downfalls.

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It's one of the key weaknesses

that Solomon's gonna have.

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It's, is perhaps the

downfall in Solomon's life.

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Which on that note, let's talk about this.

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Ali Trinidad wrote in a question,

oh, that was overlooked by me

269

last week and then did not see it.

270

Opportunity for us to talk about it here

because I think it, it fits this context.

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She asked about the ceiling of believers.

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And she said, look, in the New

Testament, I understand it believers

273

are sealed by the promised Holy

Spirit and can't lose their salvation.

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Her question, which I thought was

insightful was, she said in the

275

Old Testament though could they

quote unquote lose their salvation?

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Because the relationship with

the Holy Spirit was different.

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And so we're talking about in our

community group on Susan night,

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we were talking about Solomon.

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That's a good question.

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And Solomon went after the

women and his heart was.

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Was drawn away from the Lord

because he went after these women.

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Was he saved and then not saved?

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And then did he get saved

again later on in his life?

284

And was there backsliding?

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What was going on here?

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That was the question that she posed

and I answered it regarding the unique

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role of the Holy Spirit in the New

Testament versus the Old Testament.

288

And it's hard to take the one and try to

apply it backwards to the old that God

289

interacted with people in a different way.

290

In the Old Testament, I don't think.

291

That we can allow for someone to ever

quote unquote, have lost their salvation.

292

But in the Old Testament, as far

as a covenantal relationship with

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God, unique to the national people

of Israel, people were cut off from

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the people of God for their sins.

295

They were cut off from

any sort of relationship.

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They were cast away from culture,

society, from the tabernacle, from

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the temple, such that the relationship

with God was not anything that

298

they could continue to maintain.

299

I don't, I wouldn't put that equivalent to

New Testament era salvation regeneration

300

being sealed by the promised Holy Spirit.

301

But it is interesting to think about.

302

Somebody's fellowship with God being

interrupted by sending the Old Testament.

303

And what did that look like?

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Rod: Yeah, I think I agree with that.

305

I would say it would be impossible

for someone to lose their salvation,

306

even under the old covenant.

307

But like the new covenant, you could

experience the experience, the kind

308

of consequences that would make

your relationship with God either

309

strained or it would be finalized,

it would be terminated so that you

310

could enjoy God in a different way.

311

I think.

312

I sometimes forget how good it is

to be a New Testament Christian.

313

We have the power to obey.

314

We have a heart of flesh,

not a heart of stone.

315

God promises to give us regeneration

and renew our lives by the spirit.

316

But because the same spirit that operates

in the New Testament was also an operation

317

in the old, just in a different way.

318

I would still say that there access

to God was by grace through faith.

319

And that what they experienced

though was not regeneration in

320

the same way that you and I do.

321

Our gift to the spirit is unique to us.

322

And so I don't know exactly

what it looks like for them.

323

I just would, I'd be inclined to agree

with you that they couldn't lose it.

324

Was Solomon a Christian?

325

Guess I, I don't, he

wouldn't be a Christian.

326

That's an anachronism.

327

Is he a believer?

328

I think so.

329

And this is what I

appreciate about scripture.

330

It gives an honest look at his

life with all of its flaws and

331

failures, and at the same time shows

us how good the new covenant is.

332

Because by the spirit, we can

legitimately say no to all of these

333

sin categories that Solomon fell into.

334

That doesn't give us permission

to sin in the same way.

335

It doesn't give us any kind of, a reason

to justify sin because, oh, Solomon

336

did it and he was still a Christian, or

David did it and he did the worst sins

337

ever, and he was still a Christian.

338

Or I keep saying that a

believer, you get my point.

339

So I think that they're still

sealed and they're still, they

340

still belong to God, even Saul.

341

What do you think about Saul?

342

Since we're talking about believers

under the old covenant I think it's

343

still very viable that Saul was a

believer, just a wayward rebellious

344

king who got his just desserts.

345

In life and perhaps suffered loss

in the next life, but still a

346

believer, still part of God's elect.

347

I think maybe,

348

PJ: yeah.

349

It's so hard to take New Testament

concepts and apply them backwards.

350

It is, and that's part

351

Rod: of the beauty of scripture is

learning how to do that in a helpful,

352

and, I don't know, careful way.

353

Yeah.

354

PJ: Yeah.

355

Because even the idea of regeneration

I think at the end of the day,

356

you have to argue that every.

357

A fallen creature has to be regenerated.

358

The old has to pass away.

359

The new has to come at some point.

360

So is that retroactively applied to

Old Testament believers post cross?

361

Is there something, some transaction

when the Old Testament Saint dies

362

and goes to Abraham's bosom, so to

speak, to go to be with the Lord?

363

Is there a regenerative act at that point?

364

I, it's just it's so hard to go backwards.

365

To your point, to be so thankful

for what we have now and the clarity

366

that we have now is a good thing.

367

I would agree with you.

368

I think Paul makes it clear the gospel

was preached to, to Abraham, and so if

369

Paul is saying the gospel is preached to

Abraham if even we go back before that to

370

Adam and Eve, Genesis three 16, the proto

and Gian, the first gospel that, that.

371

The serpent would strike the heel of

Eve's offspring, but the offspring

372

of Eve would crush, the head of the

serpent, would crush the head of Satan.

373

We see redemption prophesied

and promised even there.

374

So I think it's always been salvation

by grace through faith in Christ.

375

Just not knowing the person

of Christ until after I.

376

His advent, his his incarnation

hard stuff, good questions to

377

ask heavy and we'll find out

answers when we get to eternity.

378

Good questions to ask, but maybe

379

Rod: not with the cleanest

answers that we can offer.

380

For sure.

381

We're trying, for sure.

382

We're trying to talk around it.

383

Good question.

384

That just shows you how

good the question was.

385

'cause we're still trying

to put the pieces together.

386

PJ: Yep.

387

By the way, if you have

questions podcast@compassncx.org

388

or just text PPJ or just text me,

and I'll just put it in the, I'll

389

put it in the show notes here.

390

Will you?

391

Thanks man.

392

Thanks.

393

Yeah.

394

I'll make, get Google number out there.

395

Thanks.

396

I appreciate that.

397

Yeah.

398

Hey let's pray and then we'll

be done with this episode.

399

God, we are thankful for our

relationship with you and the New

400

Testament and being on the backside

of the cross in the empty tomb and

401

understanding what we understand now.

402

And we also, I.

403

Admit our own frailty and our own

inability to fully wrap our minds around

404

who you are and how you operate and

how you operated in the past and what

405

that looked like for Abraham and Isaac

and Jacob and David and Solomon and

406

all of them, even Saul God, that those

are things that eventually, that the

407

secret things belong to you and that.

408

Regard and so we can trust that you

will work those things out and met out

409

justice according to your perfect ways.

410

In the meantime, we wanna be faithful

to you and I pray that we would be

411

faithful to you and we do look forward

to the time that we'll be able to be

412

in your presence and find out some

of the answers to these questions.

413

In the meantime, help us to

walk by faith and not by sight.

414

We pray in Jesus' name.

415

Amen.

416

Amen.

417

Keep reading your Bibles.

418

Tune in again tomorrow for another

edition of the Daily Bible Podcast.

419

Hey folks, bye.

420

thanks for listening to another

edition of the Daily Bible Podcast.

421

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Bible Church in north Texas.

422

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423

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424

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425

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426

Yeah.

427

I would agree with

everything that you said