In this episode of the Podcasting Resources Guide, host Polly interviews Polymash founder Juergen Berkessel about a recent article he published entitled "Is a No-Equipment Podcast Feasible with Synthetic Voice Technology?" and the personal journey behind it..

• https://podcastingresourcesguide.com/synthetic-voice-podcasting/

An early adopter and innovator, Juergen recounts his transition from traditional photography, to losing his job, to the embrace of digital advancements and the exploration of AI. This narrative spans various eras of media technology, highlighting the shift from analog to digital, and now to AI's role in podcasting.

Juergen draws parallels between the initial skepticism toward digital cameras and current reservations about synthetic voice technology in podcasting. His perspective as a photographer who has navigated such a transition provides valuable lessons on adapting and flourishing amid technological shifts. He illuminates how AI can democratize art and podcasting, allowing creators to prioritize content over technical production nuances.

Key Take-Aways

• The digital revolution in photography provides a parallel for the emerging integration of synthetic voice technology in podcasting.
• Digital cameras, and now AI-generated imagery and voices are democratizing the creative process, fostering wider participation.
• The value in art and podcasting often rests in the final product rather than the creation process itself.
• Synthetic voice technology is evolving, bridging the "Uncanny Valley" effect.
• Practical applications of AI voices in podcasting could involve creating content in multiple languages and facilitating AI-generated dialogue, broadening the scope of storytelling.

Notable Quotes:

• "Digital cameras, and now AI, are democratizing art by removing barriers to entry for those with a vision."
• "The artistic community has gained a new collaborator in AI, not just a new tool."
• "Skepticism is as integral to technological innovation as the excitement for new possibilities."
• "My engagement with new technologies has been about expanding possibilities, not replacing the old."

Resources:

• Polymash Website: [https://www.polymash.com](https://www.polymash.com)
• The Original Article ["Is a No-Equipment Podcast Feasible with Synthetic Voice Technology?"](https://polymash.com/no-equipment-podcast-synthetic-voice/)

Welcome to the Podcast Resources Guide. I'm your host, Polly. And today, we're sitting down with our founder, Juergen Berkessel, to discuss his recent article, is a no equipment podcast feasible with synthetic voice technology? We'll also explore the personal journey behind it. By the way, we're using AI and synthetic voice technology in parts of our production. Just one of the ways we keep things fresh and innovative. Juergen, we're eager for your experiences and insights today.

Thanks so much, Polly. I'm delighted to be here and to unpack these topics with you. They represent quite a personal journey for me.

Juergen, you moved to New York City to become a commercial photographer, and your career began in a time when photography meant heavy equipment and tangible film. Can you walk us through that era and how you've seen things change to the point where AI can now create images?

Certainly, Polly. It was a different sensory experience back then. The 11 by 14 sized view cameras were super heavy, the sheets of film expensive, and each click of the shutter was a moment of commitment. You had to be mindful of your film and compensate exposure for camera, bellows, extension, the lighting, and the physical space. It wasn't just about snapping a picture. It was crafting an image with meticulous attention to detail. I was lucky enough to work in a studio with a well known photographer named Henry Rees, a photo correspondent for the New York Times during World War 2. He took some of the famous iconic photographs of the Berlin airlift after the war.

He also invented a special effects technique called helioptix that we used for product special effects photography in New York. We had 170 exposures on the same piece of film for some of the special effect photos we did. The dark room was where additional magic happened, and it was as much a part of the art as the moment of capture itself. As digital cameras began to emerge, there was a significant shift. Initially, many of us traditionalists dismissed them as toys and even later viewed them with a degree of skepticism. Could these electronic devices truly capture the depth and nuance that film provided? Over time, though, it became clear that the essence of photography wasn't lost. Instead, it transformed. Digital cameras allowed us to experiment more freely, to capture hundreds of images, and explore our creativity without the cost and time constraints of film.

Simultaneously, computer graphics began to advance. The possibility of creating images without a camera was once unthinkable, but software and, eventually, AI started to challenge that notion. Today, we've reached a point where AI can not only generate images, but do so with a level of detail and creativity that rivals human artists. As an artist and photographer, you tend to attach great significance to the process involved in your work and take pride in the time and effort spent in perfecting it. However, there is a school of thought that, ultimately, what matters most is the end result. Viewers, fans or clients are often more concerned with the final outcome rather than the process you went through to achieve it. What digital cameras and now AI technology do is democratize art. It removes barriers to entry and allows anyone with a vision to create stunning visuals.

And, much like the transition from film to digital didn't eliminate the photographer's role, AI doesn't replace the artist. It simply provides new tools and opportunities for expression. The intersection with podcasting is clear. We're now looking at a future where the camera, the recording equipment, becomes optional. AI generated voices and sounds may soon allow us to craft auditory experiences without microphones or studios. It's a testament to the ongoing evolution of technology and its capacity to enhance rather than replace human creativity.

That's a fascinating perspective.

How do

you think this evolution has influenced the broader artistic community?

The artistic community is continuously evolving, and technology often acts as a catalyst. With each advancement from the development of the paint tube to the rise of digital art software, artists have found new ways to bring their visions to life. There's often a period of resistance as there is with any change, but adaptability is a hallmark of true creativity. Artists learn to integrate new tools and methods, expanding their repertoire and the scope of what's possible. AI's role in this progression is particularly interesting. It's not merely a new tool, it's a new collaborator. AI can take an artist's input and extend it, creating iterations and variations that might not have been conceived otherwise. This partnership between human and machine is producing art that is both familiar and completely new, it's pushing boundaries and challenging our perceptions of what it means to be a creator.

Similarly, podcasters are beginning to see the potential of AI in their work. Whether it's through enhanced audio editing software or synthetic voices, AI is opening doors to new forms of storytelling. It can make podcasting more accessible and allow creators to focus more on content and less on the technical aspects of production. This technological evolution is fostering a more inclusive and innovative podcasting landscape.

It seems that technology is not only changing the way we create, but also the way we think about creation itself.

Exactly. The conversation shifts from the technical how to the conceptual what and why. We start to focus more on the message and the emotion we want to convey and less on the process of getting there. Technology becomes a means to an end rather than an end in itself. In photography, this shift has allowed us to explore subjects and techniques podcasting, it's beginning to allow for a similar exploration of narrative and sound. The creative implications are immense, and it's an exciting time to be a part of both worlds.

Moving forward in time as new technologies like synthetic voice emerge in podcasting, skepticism naturally follows. Can you share your thoughts and experiences on how you've navigated skepticism in your career, particularly when transitioning to new technologies?

Skepticism is is as much a part of technological innovation as the excitement that comes with new possibilities. When I transitioned from traditional photography to the digital realm, the skepticism was palpable. As professionals, we had honed our skills within a certain paradigm and the suggestion that a machine could replicate the finesse of a seasoned photographer was met with resistance. I remember the first time I used a digital camera professionally. The feedback from my peers ranged from curious to outright dismissive. There was a fear that the art of photography, the craft we had dedicated our lives to perfecting, could be diminished by these new devices that lacked the soul of film. But as I worked with digital photography more, I began to appreciate the new doors it opened. The ability to immediately review and adjust images was revolutionary.

It wasn't that the artistry was gone. It was simply evolving. Fast forward to today and I recently decided to stop lugging around heavy digital cameras and instead take my iPhone only. The experience has been liberating, but also somewhat unsettling. I don't feel like a traditional photographer anymore when I do this, and it has sort of a touristy feel to it. Still, overall, the freedom of traveling without heavy camera, gear outweighs the hassle of lugging around heavy equipment, and in the end, the generated images are what counts. The best camera is always the one you have with you. In podcasting, we're seeing a similar story unfold with synthetic voice technology.

The initial reactions often focus on what might be lost, the warmth and imperfection of the human voice, but what's gained is equally important. This technology can make podcasting more accessible, allowing those who may not have the resources or technical skills to share their stories take narrative storytelling podcasts using multiple voice actors. Of course, I would love to be able to afford hiring voice actors for a project, but unless I was getting paid a significant amount to do it, I simply can't justify the expense and time it takes to craft such episodes. It is cost prohibitive, at least for my own small personal projects. But now that I'm able to use synthetic voice technologies to produce a multi participant podcast, I get an overall better, more listenable and more engaging result, I hope. My approach to skepticism has been to embrace the new while honouring the old. I've found that engaging with new technologies is less about replacing what came before and more about expanding what's possible. It's about taking the essence of what we love, be it the storytelling aspect of photography or podcasting, and exploring how technology can enhance that experience for both the creator and the audience.

It sounds like the key to navigating skepticism is adaptability and an open mind. How has this played out in your work with PolyMash?

Adaptability is crucial, Polly. At Polymash, we often work with clients who are just beginning to understand the potential of digital content. Part of my role is to guide them through the skepticism that comes with any new technology. I share my experiences, the challenges I've faced and how I've overcome them. For instance, with podcasting, some of our clients are initially uncertain about the benefits of SEO for their shows or how a strategic approach to content can enhance their visibility. I draw parallels to the early days of digital photography when the industry was learning how to leverage the new technology to reach wider audiences and create work that was both commercially successful and artistically fulfilling. By focusing on the outcomes, increased reach, more engagement, and the ability to tell stories in new ways, I help our clients move past skepticism. We explore how embracing technology doesn't mean abandoning the human element.

It means enhancing it and making it more accessible to others.

That's a powerful way to look at it. What would you say to individuals who are still on the fence about adopting new technologies in their creative work?

That's pretty rare among creatives, but I'd say that it's natural for some artists to feel hesitant about technological change, especially when it affects something as deeply personal as one's creative work. But the beauty of technology is that it's malleable. It can be shaped to fit our needs and visions. By experimenting, we learn what works for us and what doesn't. We find new ways to express ourselves, and often, we discover that our creative potential is greater than we realized. In the context of podcasting, experimenting with synthetic voices or new forms of content distribution can open up unexpected opportunities. It can lead to a richer, more diverse storytelling landscape. It's about taking that first step, trying something new, and seeing where it leads.

The concept of the uncanny valley is a pivotal one when discussing human like AI. How has your past experience with transitions and technology informed your understanding of this phenomenon as it relates to podcasting and synthetic voices?

The uncanny valley is an intriguing psychological concept where entities that appear almost human can cause a sense of unease. So it is a progression where a simple stylized cartoon may be viewed as cute, but as the depiction becomes more realistic, it reaches threshold where it is almost, but not Guide, lifelike, which can be perceived as creepy, like I'm creeped out by Victorian era toy dolls for girls, and also by bad AI generated avatars. Remember that Tom Hanks CGI movie Polar Express creepy. Fast forward to now, advancements in artificial intelligence have led to the creation of images that are so realistic they are easily mistaken for actual photographs, indicating that AI generated imagery has surpassed the uncanny valley effect. These images are now so lifelike that observers typically cannot detect any artificiality, thus avoiding the eerie or unsettling reactions that occur when human likenesses as is are not quite perfect. In podcasting, we're at a similar juncture with synthetic voices. Early text to speech programs sounded mechanical and were devoid of the emotional subtleties that make human conversations so rich. However, as the technology has matured, these synthetic voices have started to gain inflections, pauses and tonal changes that make them much more natural and engaging.

My experience has shown me that the uncanny valley isn't a permanent barrier, it's a challenge to overcome. With each iteration and improvement, AI becomes more adept at mimicking human qualities. What once felt strange becomes familiar, Juergen, eventually, we reach a point where the distinction between AI and human performance is virtually indistinguishable.

How do you anticipate audiences will react as these technologies become more prevalent in podcasting?

Initially, there will be mixed reactions as with any significant change. Some listeners will embrace the novelty and appreciate the new possibilities that synthetic voices bring. Others may feel hesitant or even reject the idea outright, preferring the traditional Juergen narrated podcasts they are accustomed to. But as content creators begin to use these tools to tell stories in innovative ways, perhaps in languages they don't speak or with character voices they couldn't otherwise perform, audiences will start to see the value. It's about demonstrating that the authenticity of a podcast doesn't solely rest on the organic nature of the voice, but also on the quality of the content and the storytelling.

In your view, what are the implications for content creators as they navigate through this uncanny valley?

For content creators, the implications are vast. Synthetic voice technology means that creators who may have been limited by their vocal capabilities or resources now have a way to produce high quality audio content. It opens the field to a wider array of voices and stories which is always positive development for any artistic medium. Navigating through the uncanny valley requires a blend of patience, experimentation, and a willingness to learn from audience feedback. Creators will need to be thoughtful about how they use synthetic voices, ensuring that they enhance the listener's experience rather than detract from it.

What role do you see for human podcasters in this evolving landscape?

I'm in no way suggesting that synthetic voice podcasts are a replacement for the human conversational elements. Human podcasters will always play a central role. For me and my experiments, it is simply that a conversation is easier to listen to than a monologue. I prefer the form factor. The technology serves as a tool, not a replacement. Human emotion, intuition, and the ability to connect with listeners on a personal level are qualities that AI is still far from replicating completely. Podcasters can leverage synthetic voice technology to handle certain aspects of production or to create content that would otherwise be impossible. But the soul of a podcast, the unique perspective, insights, and personality of the host remains irreplaceable.

Human podcasters will continue to be the driving force behind the medium with AI serving as a powerful ally in the creative process.

Reflecting on the broader history of innovation, it's clear that new technologies often face resistance. Could you share some of your personal experiences with this?

Resistance to new technologies is a recurring theme throughout history. I recall my school days in Germany where the slide rule was a standard educational tool. It was a brilliant instrument, elegant in its simplicity and requiring nothing but human input. Here in the USA, handheld calculators were met with skepticism when they entered the scene. Educators and parents worried that reliance on these devices would weaken foundational math skills. It was not until the mid 19 eighties that the college board allowed calculators on the advanced placement calculus exam, and by 1994, the Scholastic Aptitude Test, SAT, also permitted their use. But, as with all things, perspective shifts with time. Calculators didn't lead to the downfall of arithmetic.

Instead, they became a stepping stone to more advanced computational tools. We see this pattern repeat with each technological leap from the introduction of personal computers in offices to smartphones in our pockets. Every initial resistance gives way to eventual integration as we recognize the added value these innovations bring to our lives and work. In podcasting, the advent of synthetic voice and AI technologies is witnessing a similar cycle. There's a worry that it might diminish the craft and that the personal touch of a human narrator is in jeopardy. However, just as with the slide rule and calculator, it's not about replacing human skills but augmenting them. Synthetic voices can allow creators to reach broader audiences by overcoming language barriers and technical limitations. I remember going to an art exhibition in New York City where a photographer had used a cheap early digital camera to capture images with only 300 pixels resolution.

However, the artist enlarged these images to create prints that were approximately 6 feet wide. Despite their low resolution origins, the resulting artworks were breathtakingly beautiful in a sensuous and soft way. Similarly, in podcasting, perhaps we should be willing to experiment with AI while keeping the listeners' experience at the forefront. What were

some of the personal and professional challenges you faced during the digital revolution in photography?

You could say I lost my job as a result of digital. So I had to change careers due to a revolution in computer graphics that happened as digital imaging appeared. I was working in a special effects photography niche where the work dried up for analog images and computer graphics took over. Even before digital cameras became the norm, the idea of taking dozens of exposures on a piece of sheet film became irrelevant quickly. So in the end, a new opportunity opened up for me.

Looking beyond podcasting, how do you see these technological shifts affecting other forms of media and content creation?

The pervasive impact of AI based technology is evident in every form of media, be it film, music, or online content. On the positive side, it is breaking down barriers to entry, enabling more voices to be heard, and allowing creators to reach audiences in previously impossible ways. However, there is also a potential downside as it may lead to career changes for creators, just as I experienced back in the day. For instance, in filmmaking, digital cameras and editing software have made it possible for independent filmmakers to produce high quality work without a Hollywood budget. In music, home recording SEO ups and digital distribution platforms have given rise to new genres and artists who might never have found an audience in the traditional industry structure. Content creation, in general, has become more collaborative and interactive with platforms that allow creators and audiences to engage with each other directly. Of course, this democratization also means a more competitive space. As we look to the future, I believe these trends will only accelerate driven by continuous technological innovation.

Let's discuss the potential of AI assisted conversational shows. How do you envision this impacting the medium, especially regarding your own podcasting efforts?

I can only speak for myself here. In no way am I evangelizing the use of synthetic voice technology, but the implications are particularly exciting for my own efforts. The potential to produce content in multiple languages opens up vast new audiences and can lead to richer, more diverse storytelling. In practice, this means I could research a topic thoroughly, outline my thoughts, and then have an AI, like you, Polly, pose questions that I can respond to, creating a natural and informative dialogue. It's not just about ease of production. It's about crafting a more polished and accessible final product.

What personal challenges do you hope AI can address in podcasting?

One of the most significant challenges AI can help overcome is the language barrier. As a non native English speaker, I sometimes find it difficult to express complex ideas with the precision and nuance I aim for. AI can assist in refining the language used in podcasts, ensuring clarity and effectiveness in communication. Plus, I can now publish episodes in multiple languages and that's a pretty awesome result. Additionally, AI is already helping me manage the technical aspects of podcast production, automating many production processes. So AI allows creators like myself to focus on content and creativity rather than technical hurdles. Or take some of the custom AI tools we have created for our clients, for example a smart tool that does prerecording guest research and puts together a guest dossier based on the guest's LinkedIn profile and websites. Our AI compares the host and guest backgrounds, identifies common areas of interest, writes an appropriate episode introduction script, and compiles lots of interesting questions and follow ups for the host to refer to during an interview podcast.

Our clients have been loving this little utility.

How can podcasters balance the art of human conversation with the efficiencies offered by AI?

The balance comes from using AI to enhance the podcasting process without overshadowing the content itself. AI should be a tool that supports and amplifies the Podcast abilities, not one that distracts from the message they're conveying. I am merely experimenting with things like synthetic voices, but I see that as my role in podcasting. I am not suggesting everyone else should or even that these experiments are successful. For example, while AI can provide structure and assist with production, the core of the podcast, the nuanced discussion, the emotional depth, the spontaneous moments, will likely remain human driven. For now, it's about leveraging AI where it's most effective and keeping the focus on creating genuine human connections with the audience.

As we wrap up today's conversation with Juergen Baer Berkessel, it's clear that the intersection of technology and podcasting is fertile ground for creativity and innovation. Juergen, before we part ways, do you have any final thoughts or a message for our listeners who may be inspired by our discussion to explore these technologies in their podcasting endeavors?

I think creators are already pretty experimental by nature. I just hope this trickles down to listeners as well. It's an exciting time to be in podcasting and the tools at our disposal are more powerful and accessible than ever. Whether you're a seasoned veteran or just starting, I urge people to experiment with new technologies, learn from the community, and never forget that the heart of podcasting is the stories we share and the connections we make.

Thank you, Juergen, for such a thought provoking session. To our listeners, if you're intrigued by the ideas we've discussed today, I invite you to read Juergen's original think piece on his blog at polymash dot com.

Before we sign off, remember Podcast is all about connecting. So got questions? We'd love to hear them. Drop by our website, and let's chat. Thanks for listening, and we're here to help when you need us.