In this episode of Gospel Talks, George Binoka and Jeff Musgrave wrestle with a tension many Christians feel but rarely articulate: how do we take personal responsibility for evangelism without undermining God’s sovereignty? Building on the previous episode, they explore the danger of passivity in relational evangelism and why refusing to engage the lost is not humility—but a neglect of moral agency.

Using biblical examples like Esther, Acts 1:8, and Jesus’ own ministry model, this conversation brings clarity to the balance between trust and obedience. The gospel is a treasure entrusted to fragile vessels, and God calls each believer to faithfully steward it right where they are.

This episode challenges listeners to stop waiting for the “perfect moment,” embrace urgency rooted in love, and confidently step into the role God has already given them.

Key Topics Covered

• Why passivity in evangelism dishonors our responsibility before God
• The difference between God’s sovereign will and His moral will
• How relational evangelism avoids both pressure and negligence
• Why love and truth must always go together
• Seeing people—not numbers—as eternal treasure
• Learning contentment in being used by God as He chooses

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Relational Evangelism

01:43 Moral Agency in Evangelism

04:12 Balancing Urgency and Passivity

07:29 Understanding Our Responsibility

11:09 Navigating God’s Sovereignty and Moral Will

14:08 The Importance of Love in Evangelism

17:50 The Treasure of the Gospel

21:16 Being Used as Vessels for God

Takeaway

God is sovereign—but He has chosen to work through willing, obedient people. You don’t need to reach the whole world. You need to be faithful in your Jerusalem. Trust Him fully. Obey Him faithfully. And steward the treasure you’ve been given.

If this episode encouraged you, share it with someone you’re praying for—and join us next time on Gospel Talks.

Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks podcast where we help Christians all over the world

become more effective in relational evangelism and discipleship.

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My name is George Binoka joined by none other than Jeff Musgrave, the founder, author of

The Exchange.

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And we are so happy to be with you guys.

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This is the Christmas season and we've just had Thanksgiving and we're very thankful for

everything that God is doing.

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The topic today plays off the topic of last week.

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So if you didn't catch last week's episode, episode number 70

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You're wanna go back and listen to it, but these are two sides of the same coin.

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And so last week we talked about the need, the compulsion to bring up the gospel in every

conversation with every stranger you encounter throughout your life is maybe a degradation

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of God's sovereignty.

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Go back and listen to that.

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This week, what we're talking about is another thought I had sitting in the same exchange

seminar listening to Jeff is,

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The refusal to bring up the gospel in any relationship in your life is a degradation of

your moral agency, meaning your responsibility to God.

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I think that there's a character in the Bible that was put in this exact predicament.

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Her name is Esther.

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And remember when Mordecai said to Esther, and this is the question we're gonna be

answering today and Jeff's gonna be helping me answer is,

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He said to her, you know Esther, you were put there for such a time as this.

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And that statement is made in a book where God's name is never mentioned, but his

fingerprints are everywhere.

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And so you put in the palace for such a time as this.

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And he says to her, if you don't do anything, God's gonna make a way to preserve his

people, fret not.

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So trust God.

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He said, but you and all your descendants will be terribly

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terribly judged and cursed because you didn't do anything, so you're responsible.

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So that's a conundrum.

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He said to her, it doesn't matter what you do, but it matters what you do.

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And so, you know, how do we deal with this, moral agency in evangelism, without balancing

that with God's sovereignty?

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Well, isn't that the key word is balance.

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I just really believe that the key to the Christian life, mature Christian living is a

balanced Christian life.

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And someone has given and I don't know that this is a perfect illustration.

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But the balance is like walking down a road, there's a ditch on every on both sides of

that road.

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And you have to keep your car out of out of both of those ditches.

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And of course, the ditch that we talked about last week was that

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that sense of, it's all on me.

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And we talked about the word trust.

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And this week, the ditch that we're trying to avoid and stay out of is the ditch of

passivity that, you know, it's all on God.

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And that's the song that you talked about last week at the end of our session was trust

and obey.

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And there's, I love the rest of that phrase, for there's no other way to be happy in

Jesus, but to trust and obey.

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It literally is.

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This is the sole responsibility.

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We could literally say it is faith.

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So it's only faith, but those who genuinely believe will obey.

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I mean, that's really the key.

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Yep, and it's the complaint of some people that this relational approach to evangelism,

again, we would go back to the Bible and say this is the approach that Jesus establishes

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and how he conducts his ministry.

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But that aside, one of the complaints is it can seem really passive.

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Like, wow, how long are you gonna wait in this relationship?

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And shouldn't you have some urgency?

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Shouldn't you just preach?

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the gospel and let the preaching of God's word do the work and that kind of thing.

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And so I understand the complaint is because sometimes what can happen is we shirk our

responsibility.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And passivity is unbecoming to a believer.

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It is it is not what we see in the life of Jesus.

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You know, that passage that we talk about on a weekly basis that we're praying the Lord of

the harvest.

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It's preceded by a statement that says that Jesus went to all the cities in the villages

of Galilee preaching the gospel.

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Mm-hmm.

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representative of about three million people.

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What we recognize is that when Jesus was here on earth, he worked hard.

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He did live in an urgency.

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And so this this passivity that plagues many of us as believers is is not becoming to us

as Christians because Christ followers, if we're going to follow in the footsteps of

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Jesus, we've got to stay urgent and we've got to stay busy.

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Hmm, it's very, very true.

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There has to be this intentionality in our lives, but at the same time, have this balance

of not crossing a threshold and taking a responsibility that's meant for the shoulders of

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God and putting it on our shoulders, because as soon as you do that, that will crush you.

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I mean, you are not designed to bear a weight like that.

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And so, we have to, our, we,

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actually this is a matter of humility, right?

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Is we have to make sure that in our heads we realize, no, this is where God has put me and

I'm responsible for this and he knew this is what I can be responsible for and I'm gonna

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do this in his power and with him.

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I am not, this is where George gets in trouble, having these thoughts of like, man, I'm

gonna win thousands of people to Christ.

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Jesus had 12, you know?

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amazing.

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I think that's there were 1000s who wanted to hear him, but he chose 12 and spent time

with 12.

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That was that was his model of ministry.

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So that's pretty amazing.

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I think that just like God hasn't called me to reach the entire world.

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He certainly has called me to reach some so how do

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How do I come up with the sum that God wants me to reach?

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And I think of the acts chapter one, verse eight passage to kind of give a delineation of

priority.

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in that passage, Jesus is talking to his disciples, those 12 we were talking about, and he

says, okay, I want you to stay here in Jerusalem until you receive the power of the Holy

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Spirit.

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And I think we should just stop right here and say, none of this is possible without the

Holy Spirit working in us through us and in the hearts of the people.

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We don't have to wait anymore.

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That's the work of the Holy Spirit is ongoing today.

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But we are dependent and we have to keep it's not about me.

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It's not about what I do.

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It's about him and me working together with him.

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So then he goes on and he says, and you will be my witnesses to me.

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So that's

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that we talked about this word in the Charlie Kirk timeframe, that word witnesses the word

martyr, and literally they did become martyrs.

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Their witness brought on martyrdom.

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That's how serious that's how urgent that's how unrelenting they were in this

responsibility.

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But he goes on to say, you're to be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in

Samaria.

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and into the uttermost parts of the earth.

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Now, if you're not familiar with the geography, it's just a bunch of words.

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But in if you're familiar with the geography, they're in Jerusalem as he's speaking.

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So we're in this city right now.

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And then when he says the word all Judea, what what he's saying is, there is a larger area

of Jewish people that I want you to go to.

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And I think so far, the these Jewish minded people are getting it.

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Messiah wants us to reach the Jews.

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And then he says, and Samaria, that's a broader region, that's a different area that's now

leaving just the place of the Jews, and broadening the horizon outward, and then

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eventually says, to the end of the world.

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So, you know, you were talking about the fact that

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that you get a little too big for your britches sometimes and you're thinking, I got to

reach the whole world.

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I do think that God wants us to have a world mindset.

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I do think he wants us to have a big vision.

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And I know that as my partner in the exchange, you have a big vision for what God wants to

do with the exchange.

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And I really appreciate that that that that really comforts my heart to know that there's

someone

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uh in this yoke with me that has this big vision.

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But as an individual responsibility, I am first and foremost responsible for the people of

my Jerusalem.

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And I think each of one of us need to look out and say, okay, who is it that is my

Jerusalem?

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Who is it that God is gonna hold me responsible for?

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Hmm.

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That's, I love that because that is trusting God and saying, this is where God has put me.

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Sometimes we have this lingering question in the back of our heads that is really driven

by pride is, am I meant for something more?

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And the reality is if you pick up your head and look around, you're meant for exactly

where you are.

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And so those people, you go, who am I meant to reach?

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Look around.

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The people you see in your life on a weekly basis.

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Those are who you're meant to reach.

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And I do think that we are meant for more, but it's more connection with the people God

has given us.

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Does that make sense?

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In other words, God wants to be using me more in the people that he's placed me with right

here.

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So this small place is where God wants me to focus my attention.

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Yep, yep.

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And a lot of times as Americans, we think so much in terms of quantity, whereas we should

be thinking in terms of quality.

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And there is more to be had qualitatively in your life than just quantity.

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It's not just about numbers because those 12 that Jesus had turned around and changed the

world.

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They turned it upside down.

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Yep, yep.

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Yeah.

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Um, you know, we've been using the word sovereignty and the concept of trust.

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And I am afraid that some of us are tempted to, and I don't even know that this is

possible.

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I'm going to use words and I'm gonna have to turn around and explain what I mean by them.

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Over emphasize the sovereignty of God.

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And really, it is not so much that I am overemphasizing the asamfordity of God as it is

that I am being negligent to the human responsibility God's put on me.

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Yeah, think that's the point is we have to give each of those the emphasis that the Bible

gives them and the Bible gives emphasis to both.

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I mean, God judges.

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he gives almost a complete emphasis on each.

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If that makes sense.

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I am completely dependent upon the sovereignty of God, but I am completely responsible to

everything God has called me to.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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When people come to you as a pastor and they go, hey, there's these two girls I like, so

which one is God's will for me to marry?

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The reality is what they're asking is they're asking you about God's sovereign will.

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And the truth is that you don't know because you're not invited to that meeting in heaven.

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So, but there's this two aspects of God's will that, you know, and there's one that we

tend not to think about, and there's one that we think about too much.

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Often we wonder, where am I going to be in five years?

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I wonder what's going to happen to that in 10 years.

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You know, I wonder what's God's will for this, this.

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We're usually thinking in terms of God's sovereignty.

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What the will that God asks us to follow is his moral will, which is recorded in

scripture, right?

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This is what we're responsible for.

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And so what happens is these are like two concentric circles, God's sovereign will and

God's moral will.

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And the overlap is our life, where God's sovereign will and his moral will are interacting

together.

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in my life where he's guiding me in his sovereignty and he's opening and closing doors,

but he's also asking me to walk in a way as he's guiding me that gives brings him glory in

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obedience.

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And so where we should be concerned, what we know for sure is God's moral will.

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What you're never invited to and never made a part of is God's sovereign will.

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Those meanings are way above our pay grade.

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Yeah, I let me give you another take on that one.

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Just a not not different, but another take on it.

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And that is I am responsible today to take the steps God wants me to take today.

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I love the verse that says in your light, we see light.

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And it's like God gives me this puddle of light.

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And there's clarity in the puddle of light.

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I get

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I get to know what God wants me to do in this puddle of light that he's given me.

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As I take steps forward, the puddle moves forward with me and I see more responsibility.

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it's kind of like, is a, I am responsible for the specifics that God calls me to.

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some people,

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say it in this very simple way.

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Just do the next right thing.

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And what that statement does is marry together what you're saying and what I'm saying

about this moral will of God.

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Just do the next right thing.

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Right, yeah, I love it.

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So I let me give you an illustration.

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I gave you an illustration last week of a woman who felt guilty about not witnessing to

somebody.

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I once worked with a group of pastors and this was a group that were all associated with a

similar school and in my associations with them I trained in several different places in

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this association and I worked with them for a period of about two years.

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And they would get real excited about the gospel.

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mean, they really loved talking about it.

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They they loved getting into the theology of it.

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They were really confident in the sovereign work of God.

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But I didn't know a single one of them in that two year time period that did an exchange

Bible study with somebody.

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And I didn't know a single one of them that personally led someone to Christ.

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Now, to me, that's that's falling into the wrong ditch.

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There's a negligence there.

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There's a sense of God just going to make it happen.

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And and they were being negligent and not actually following through with their side of

human responsibility.

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Right, It's...

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um

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I don't want to characterize anybody or paint anybody with a broad brush, but that type of

theology tends to make a person very unloving, very cold.

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so what it is for me, what I particularly see as a neglect of is our responsibility to

love the people around us.

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And it's like, guys, preaching, God will change a life through preaching, but it's truth

and love.

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And so if you're not loving, I mean, what does Paul say?

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If I have this gift or if I can speak in tongues or whatever, it's like I'm just a

clanging symbol if I don't love.

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It's like love and truth together, guys.

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Love and truth together.

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And so it's like when these guys say, well, God's sovereignty and I'm just gonna go there.

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My job is to preach the truth.

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I don't care.

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I don't have to love anybody.

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You've only read, right, you've only read half the New Testament.

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What's wrong with you?

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So, you know, it's...

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Come on love and truth together.

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How will they know you by your love for one another?

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So it's like that that's what the Bible teaches

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And I do think that there is something unbelievably beautiful about the supernatural love

that God gives to a local church and that that that in and of itself is attractive and

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attracts people.

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uh That's just that's a beautiful reality of what God has has given to us.

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This is I I do believe in the sovereignty of God, so I don't want to ever give anybody a

thought process that I am.

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over emphasizing human responsibility here.

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That's you got to listen to both podcasts to be able to get the balance.

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But here's how I see the sovereignty of God.

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That right now God is wooing people to himself in my sphere of influence.

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And I get real excited about trying to figure out who those people are and see him come to

Christ.

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I mean, there's an urgency that goes with that, that sovereign work of God.

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That's the analogy of doors, you know, like there's a room full of doors and God, you

know, know that God has kept some unlocked and some that are locked and the whole fun of

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it is that you get to go and test doors.

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if you knew that there's at least one door that's unlocked in that room and that behind it

was a treasure that you could never comprehend or imagine,

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you would not be disappointed every time you hit a locked handle.

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You would just be like, okay, I'm one closer.

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I'm one closer to a treasure, right?

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And so that's how we have to approach the doors in our neighborhood, the doors in our

family, the doors in our workplace, is I know that God has put me here for a reason.

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I'm in the room.

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I assume I'm in the room for a gospel purpose.

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Let me go test door handles.

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Let's get closer to this treasure.

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That's the mentality of, that's the balance.

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you've given of that treasure behind the door because every single soul that we lead to

Christ is literally a an eternal treasure that God allows us to spend eternity with that

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these these are eternal friends.

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We're gonna have fellowship with that person.

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It's a spiritual child that God has given me for eternity.

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What a treasure.

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That's it, yep.

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It's the treasure that the disciples were to Jesus.

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That's the treasure the people we lead and introduce to Jesus become to us.

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You know, in the passage where Jesus is speaking to his disciples in the upper room, he's

just, he's revealed himself to them for the first time, he is the risen Savior.

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And he immediately sends them, he says, as the father sent me, so I am sending you, he

breathed on them, said, receive the Holy Spirit.

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gave them the enabling to be able to do it.

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And then he makes this statement.

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If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven.

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If you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.

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Now, I know God didn't give us the ability to forgive and to withhold forgiveness.

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That's that's solely his.

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But the message that we carry of forgiveness can be withheld.

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And you know, the

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in Second Corinthians, he says, if our gospel be hidden, it's hidden from those that are

lost.

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And we dare not take upon ourselves the responsibility to hide the treasure, to not show

it to people to not shine the light to those who need it.

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Yeah, it's like you say, gotta wear it comfortably on our shirt sleeve.

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um That might be some of the most significant ministry you have in your life is to just be

transparent about your relationship with Jesus.

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Yeah.

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And I hear people say it's like they're casting out seeds.

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And what that means is that as I am working at connecting with people on a gospel level,

and they begin to say, Hey, I'm interested in that.

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That's, that's where you continue to pursue.

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And then you go into those gospel, prolonged gospel conversations.

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Right?

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Nope, I'm 100%.

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Yeah, yeah.

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You know that passage where he says, if you withhold forgiveness, it reminds me of another

passage where Jesus uses a different analogy says on this rock, I will build my church.

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And I think that's, that's the sovereignty side.

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God is the one who's calling people.

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He's the one who's building the church.

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The gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

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Nothing can stop the church triumphant.

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But then he goes on and he says, I will give to you.

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individually, the keys to the kingdom.

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And he's talking about the fact that when he defeated death, he brought the keys of death

and hell back with him.

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He handed those keys to us in the gospel message.

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And then he says, and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and

whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

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How we utilize the gospel message is making a difference in eternity.

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And we have to take it seriously.

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There has to be this sense of obligation.

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Paul said it this way in Romans one, I am debtor, I'm under obligation to preach the

gospel.

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Yep, yep.

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You've been entrusted with a treasure.

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Jesus in John says, you've been given a light, you don't hide it under a bushel.

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You put it on top of the stool, it's like a city set on a hill.

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You don't wanna hide this thing because it is not stewardship.

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It was given to you to share.

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In part to share, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And and it's interesting because in that passage where it says of our gospel be hidden,

it's hidden from those who are lost.

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It does say that Satan is blinding the eyes of the lost, that they might not see the light

of the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ.

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In the very next verse, it says we have this treasure, this light in earthen vessels.

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And we, you know, we're all a bunch of crackpots.

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But the light is what is so important and shining that light out into people's lives.

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That's what God's called us to do.

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No, that's exactly it.

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we should have the contentment to be used as a vessel in the way that God has decided to

use us instead of us all deciding we all need to be, you know, we can't all be Jeff

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Musgrave.

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There's one Jeff Musgrave, God's put him on earth, he's got his mission, he's got his

purpose, just like Jesus had his ministry.

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You know, people tell me, and why can't I walk around and heal people and stuff like that?

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It's well, it's like the

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mother of James and John saying to Jesus, hey, make sure you keep a place on the left and

right for my sons.

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And he goes, do you really know what you're asking?

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Do you even understand what the purpose of my ministry is?

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So you don't have Jesus's ministry.

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You're not Jesus.

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I'm not Jesus.

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I'm not Charles Spurgeon.

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I'm not Adoniram Judson.

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I'm George Benoka.

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I'm going to live in Santan Valley, Arizona.

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And I'm live on a street where half the houses aren't even built yet.

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The foundation's not even laid.

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And I'm going to look around in my life and say, this is what God

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This is how he wants to use me as his vessel and it is his prerogative how he uses you as

his vessel.

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It is not the vessel's prerogative to say, well, this is the kind of vessel I want to be.

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No.

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We look around and we say we trust God's sovereignty in where he's placed us and we are

willing and humble heart to our Savior obey and be used in the ways he wants us to be

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used.

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if...

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Amen.

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Amen.

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Well, we love you guys.

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We pray with you as you pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send forth laborers.

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Let's trust God's sovereignty.

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Let's obey his call in scripture to go out and share his word, his treasure with those he

puts in our path.

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We love you guys.

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We will see you next week.