Join Chris Lindstrom as he delves into the world of Countertop Creamery with owner Travis Briggs, exploring the innovative flavors and creative processes behind his artisanal ice cream. They talked about Travis' journey starting during the pandemic to his aspirations of expanding his business and developing unique flavors that evoke nostalgic memories. Listeners will discover the intricacies of achieving the perfect texture in ice cream, the challenges of balancing flavors, and the importance of community collaboration in Rochester’s vibrant food scene.

Links referenced in this episode:

• countertopcreamery.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Fattey Beer Company - @fatteybeer
• Jen's Artisan Bread - @jensartisan
• Casa del Maiz - @cdelmaiz
• AM FM - @amfm_coffee
• Stewart's - @stewartsshops

Mentioned in this episode:

Sweet Pea Plant Based Kitchen

Sweet Pea is a plant-powered kitchen helping you achieve wellness. Harnessing the power of food as medicine, we help you realize your happiest, healthiest self. Use promo code Lunchador15 for 15% off your order! https://sweetpeaplantbased.com

Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that lifts everyone.

Use promo code Lunchador for 15% off your order! https://shop.joebeanroasters.com

Pauly Guglielmo Show

Pauly Guglielmo is a former radio guy turned food business entrepreneur. While running a manufacturing facility is his day job, he likes to dust off his broadcasting skills once a week on this podcast and talk to entrepreneurs and other influencers. https://pauly-guglielmo-show.captivate.fm/

I'm Chris Lindstrom, and this is the food about town podcast, Rochester.

Well, why Rochester?

Chris Lindstrom was awaked.

He was just so much fun.

He never stopped talking.

I mean, it was great.

Here's a good idea.

Have a point.

It makes it so much more interesting for the listener.

And we don't need any characters around to give the joint atmosphere.

Is that clear?

Cause I'm a pro.

That's what pros do.

I'm a professional.

Look it up in the book.

But now, yeah, I'm thinking.

I'm back.

And we are back with another episode of the Food about Town podcast.

Thank you so much for joining.

And I'm here with a guest.

I've met him once or twice before, but I'm really fascinated to talk with him today.

Guest, why don't you introduce yourself?

Yeah.

Hi, my name is Travis Briggs.

I am the owner and operator of Countertop Creamery.

So, countertop Creamery, why don't you give the quick plug so people can follow you and see where you're going to be next?

Then we're going to dive right in.

Yeah, sure.

So you can find us on all socials.

Countertop creamery.

My girlfriend Lily runs all the socials because I have no idea.

But it's also countertopcreamery.com.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I gotta say, like, having, like, my wife is a graphic designer and an artist.

Having her available for, like, oh, I need a logo.

Like, oh, I get a full professional logo out of my house.

And my partner in the podcast network, his partner designed the logo that's on our coasters and on the thing.

What a delight is to have somebody who's better than you at many things around.

Yes.

So, yeah, so you got the countertop creamery.

You're popping up all over Rochester.

So let's dive in.

So, one, what is countertop creamery, and why did you end up starting it?

So, I'm originally from Saratoga Springs, New York.

Okay.

That's a fascinating place to grow up.

It is.

It's got to be really interesting to see, like, the summers get completely influxed with people in crazy hats, and the locals basically get abandoned to the dregs of Saratoga.

Yeah, I mean, you just get really good at navigating back roads.

Oh, God.

I'd have to imagine, like, I remember camping in the Adirondacks as a kid.

Our big vacation every year was camping in a state campground for two weeks every year, because that's the way we grew up.

But we'd always read about the races.

And there's always the article every year in the.

What is it?

Is it the Post Gazette?

Yeah.

Out of.

There's a few.

There were more, but there's like the Times Union.

Times union.

That's what it is.

And I always remember reading that article every year about those stupid hats.

And I abhorred that article every year while we were on vacation.

Yeah, I mean, there's.

There's a lot of problematic things associated with all that.

I mean, regarding the racing, I went.

I've been to the actual races twice.

Yeah.

And that's.

That's the story of a lot of locals.

It's just like, yeah, why?

Why would I go?

I mean, it's the same story.

Like, I grew up in Buffalo, and I can't remember the last time I went to Niagara Falls.

On purpose.

Yeah.

Like, I remember going as a kid.

I can't remember the last time I went.

Yeah, you just don't want to subject yourself to that.

Just so many people.

Yeah.

So.

But aside from the racing, there's a lot of really good small dairies out there.

So, you know, we'd hop in the family car and drive out to man's ice cream, which later on became the ice cream man.

That was out in Schuylerville.

There's King's Dairy, there's the dairy house.

There's a bunch of other places.

And they all made their ice cream in shop.

And so you'd go there and it would just be really high quality.

And not to mention you have Stewart's gas stations, which you wouldn't expect good ice cream from a gas station.

But man, oh, man.

And I gotta say, for, for the style of ice cream that it is and for those that aren't in, who haven't been up into the, you know, further, further upstate, the north country ish area of New York state, I would say it is certainly a better version of the, you know, the commercial high overrun ice creams on the market.

It still lives in that world.

This is not specialty ice cream.

This isn't that level of stuff.

But for like, comparative to all the super high overrun stuff and the ultra commercial things, it's pretty good.

Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, they're kind of like benevolent overlords.

Like, there's, there's Stewart's that on a four corners.

They are on two of the corners.

And just everybody's okay with it.

Yeah.

You don't.

We don't really have a 711.

We don't really have Cumberland farm.

It's like only Stewart's and everybody's okay.

With it, and that maroon color is burned into your brain forever.

Yeah.

So, basically, I grew up having a plethora of options when it came to, like, really high quality ice cream.

And I've just always been a person who wanted to figure out how to do things myself, so started making ice cream using a machine that my dad gave me from a yard sale.

It was, like, literally just a hand crank in a wood bucket with the.

Ice and the ice and the salt.

Ice and the salt, yeah.

And so I did that a couple times in college.

We did a bunch of stuff like that in college, like making furniture, making maple syrup.

And then, you know, naturally, pandemic happened.

A lot of free time, and just kind of experimented with it.

Gave some to some friends.

They gave it to their friends and then had random people texting me, asking me if I had ice cream.

Fast forward.

Then I'm, like, serving pints out of my front door of my house.

So let's take a step back.

So when you were starting to make it and starting to ramp up.

Right.

So you had tested in the past, and you're starting to make again.

How were you?

And this isn't always about, you know, isn't always about equipment that we care about, but I love the process of learning how to make things.

So what equipment were you using when you were restarting back in, you know, during the pandemic?

Yeah.

So I literally still had that hand crank button.

Oh, that's awesome.

I love that.

And I did that for about four batches, and that got really old.

And your ice machine was, like, screaming at you.

I mean, at that point, I had to go and get, like, bags of ice.

Yeah, you're buying.

Yeah.

And then I would like.

Cause you can't fit full pieces of ice in the bucket, so you had to blend it first, and then.

Yeah, that was just a mess.

But luckily, my girlfriend's grandmother buys a lot of things on QVC and just started, like, sending us ice cream machines.

Awesome.

Yeah, kind of.

My grandma had the same kind of problem.

I don't.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

So, basically, I was working with these machines that would spit out, like, a pint of ice cream at a time.

And I'm like, you know, taking up all the counter space in our kitchen.

Were these ones that had compressors inside or were.

You had to freeze?

I never had to freeze.

Okay, so they always had compressors.

But I started with, like, the just gives out a pint, and then I got to one that gives out like, three pints.

And then I bought, like, two of those, and I was doing, like, six pints of.

And if you, like, look at the Google street view for my house, it's literally a picture of me.

Like, the car was going by as I was handing out, like, a pint of ice cream to somebody.

That's got to be the absolute best street view thing you can possibly get.

Yeah.

And then I saw it.

So, like, it's like, me.

One picture is me handing it off, and then the next one is, like, me waving it off.

It's like an old school.

Like, when you put the little paper thing of, like, photos in that you had to, like, click the viewfinder just looking at you.

Hi, I'm doing a business.

Hi.

Yeah.

And then it got to the point where we had, like, so many strangers showing up to our house that I was like.

And we even had people showing up, like, I don't see the business.

Like, where's the business?

And we're like, oh, no, this.

It's literally a house.

I don't know anything about that.

Yeah.

So, you know, just having, like, strangers show up to it.

Yeah.

I mean, yes.

I remember going to.

I think it was.

Man, I think it was one of the doughboys houses when they were doing the neapolitan pizza pop ups.

I remember going out there.

They were popping up in people's driveways doing that.

And, yeah, I mean, we run this out of my house, and, you know, part of that is like, you want to start something, and you can just start something now, and if there's enough demand, then, yeah, you can do something more.

Yeah.

So then it got to the point where.

Cause I always want to do things above board.

Sure.

It got to the point where I was like, man, if the Department of Health finds out about this, they could probably just bury me into the ground.

If they wanted to, I would say.

So.

Yes.

I.

I had my girlfriend Lily reach out to pop rock, which was a cereal bar in Rochester, and they were doing, like, for a while, they were doing this, like, co op thing.

So I literally just had her dm them like, hey, I heard you guys are, like, a co op space.

I'm doing this.

Can I use your kitchen when you're not using it?

And they're like, yeah, that hasn't been a thing for, like, a year, but if you want to, like, come in and chat, we can, like, figure it out anyways.

And so go in, talk with Jason, who's a great guy, you know, loves everything.

Rochester, and really of the people, for the people.

And he said, yeah, man, that sounds good.

And I was like, I literally don't have any money to pay you rent.

A.

And he's like, well, we have ice cream on our menu.

What if you just pay your rent and ice cream?

And I was like, sounds great.

And was that at the.

The Euclid location?

Was that over on?

That was at Euclid.

Okay.

So.

And that's.

That's still where I operate or, like.

Make my stuff at shout out to AM FM.

Shout out to AM FM.

You know, Wade Reed, part of the Lunchroom podcast network, on the level up podcast, talking about coffee things.

Yeah.

Should be an episode coming out soon where Aaron and I were tasting this fantastic decaf coffee from ditartiginale in Florence, Italy.

So, yeah, I went over during some of the soft open stuff, and I really like the direction that place is going.

I'm excited to see where it goes.

Yeah, yeah.

And obviously still working out a lot of the kinks.

Oh, yeah.

Which happens during a long, long phase.

Soft opening.

But, um, yeah, basically just.

I was producing x number of gallons a week for Jason and pop rock, and that was paying my rent.

And, yeah, that's.

That's pretty much how countertop creamery got to the level that it's at today.

That's awesome.

So, right now, are you still using those kind of equipments?

Have you upgraded to.

Are you using, like, a commercial ice cream maker at this point?

So I'm using a.

A vivor or vever vivor ice cream machine.

It can take in about three quarts and spit out, like, you know, again, anywhere from a gallon to a gallon and a half.

Okay.

Still super small for what I'm doing, and it takes forever because it's air cooled, but.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've Eric Nagel, who owns the space of Am Fm, and I've.

We have a deal reached so that we can kind of take the next step as far as machinery goes.

And.

Oh, that's awesome that I'm not just.

Like, doing batches all day.

Yeah.

Because the repetition of that.

And it's one of those, um, I kind of see it as.

It's also analogous to the way coffee roasting is in many ways.

You know, when you have the larger batch size, things act differently, too.

Yeah.

So they act differently, they freeze differently.

None of it's the same.

And you have to almost relearn your process every time you switch equipment.

And that happened when I went from those two, like, three pint machines to the one three quart machine.

Definitely had to change some stuff with the recipe to make it creamier and keep the same consistency, because that's really the thing that distinguishes me from some of the other ice cream businesses in town, is that I and others generally find the texture of my ice cream to be a lot smoother.

So let's talk about texture.

So that's something I've always loved paying attention to, is how do you get that luxurious, rich texture without it being overly fatty?

Where your mouth feels coated in a buttery way, where it's churned incorrectly.

How do you get it where you're not getting large ice crystals that are just unpleasant in the mouth or crunchy in a way you're not expecting?

It's.

There's so many different variables, but what's the kind of texture that you're shooting for?

And I used the term overrun earlier.

I'll just using detailed terminology for everybody on here, which is really referring to the amount of air that is in a product.

So you might start with a certain amount of liquid volume and then the amount of overruns, kind of the added volume that is being added with churned air into that, which, to a point, is necessary, because if it's.

If it has no overrun, it's gonna be so dense.

Yep.

You need air in there because you want it to melt on your tongue.

You want that texture.

But how do you work through all those things to get the texture of the on?

What is the texture that you want?

So my goal with the texture is to have the highest butterfat content that I can have while not leaving your mouth coated.

And that, in and of itself, guards against the iciness.

Yeah.

You know, so a lot of times where you run into the iciness issue is you're not using enough butter fat, because that's the expensive stuff.

Well, and fat, by definition, doesn't freeze crystallized in the same way that water and other things do.

Yeah.

So it ends up that different texture.

Yeah.

So, and there's.

There's a couple other tricks that I've found that help with that.

And it was pretty cool that I've developed this recipe that I really like.

And then my mom got a masterclass subscription, and Jenny from Jenny's ice cream is on there, and she does a whole episode on how to make ice cream at home.

It was crazy that it was almost like my recipe to a tea.

I love that.

And I think that's experimentation though.

And if you're paying attention to details, so many people might come to a similar conclusion, because in the end, that result and what they're able to achieve as a higher volume commercial product is really good.

And, you know, some people don't like the dairy stuff on their side because it's grass fed.

It's grass fed milk, and it does have a very specific grass fed milk taste.

I think it's fantastic because it's doing something that other people aren't doing, that it provides that contrast to the other parts of rich flavors and the sweetness, but it's not for everybody.

And it has a unique texture.

Yeah, but at the same point, when you get to the right thing, you get that creaminess that melts in your mouth.

That's hard to resist, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's.

I mean, that being said, I'm not batting a thousand with it.

There's definitely some batches that, you know, I add some ingredient to it and it just, like, throws off the fat content, throws off the water structure or whatever, and I just end up with something that's pretty, pretty icy.

I haven't felt.

I haven't figured out a good way to deal with that yet.

If and when I do get a brick and mortar, I'd love to have, like, you know, a bargain bin, like, not our best work, but still enjoyable kind of, kind of thing, you know, just for a couple bucks.

And you can.

You can go in there and grab something that's edible.

Yeah, but, I mean, the flavors are.

Still gonna be good.

Yeah.

Just not up to.

Up to my standard.

Yeah.

Because I.

I mean, I've had, you know, over the years, so many different producers of things, and I.

Sometimes it's hard to remember, you know, the good stuff and the really good stuff.

I remember the superlative things, and I remember just the dregs of.

The dregs of texture and the dregs of taste.

Yeah.

Like, I remember so vividly.

I think we were in San Francisco, and there was a place that.

That was doing.

They were doing, like, the gimmick flavors.

They did a salt and pepper ice cream, but it really didn't have sugar in it, and it was awful.

It was not edible whatsoever.

Yeah, I remember there was a local producer that they had done a coffee ice cream, and they left the grounds in it.

And when you're biting into the ice cream, you bit into coffee grounds.

And it was wildly unpleasant.

Yeah, I've heard.

Or, well, actually, my mom sent me a picture of one coffee ice cream that had the grounds.

Still, I could imagine that using chocolate covered espresso beans could actually be pretty pleasant.

Sure.

But I work so hard to get this creamy texture.

Why would I throw, like, literal grounds into the ice cream, right?

Like, I get steeping coffee to try and extract your coffee flavors.

And that makes a lot of sense.

But you know what?

It's so challenging.

And that's where, like, I love.

I love the consistency of giant producers.

So, like, one of those amazing things is, like, when you taste something where you're like, I can't picture how this works to get, like, the texture of pretzels that isn't, like, frozen and waterlogged inside of a product that's not coated.

I'm like, how in the hell did they do that?

It's amazing because I've had ones with pretzels inside.

They're just like, I can't even bite into this.

It's making me cringe.

It's making me shudder with bad texture.

Yeah.

And so speaking of talking about Stewart's earlier, my favorite ice cream growing up was crumbs along the mohawk.

It's a Graham cracker ice cream, graham cracker pieces, and caramel swirl.

And they have these pieces in there that I just, like, have been working so hard to replicate in my own ice cream.

And then I just get to a point where it's like, what am I willing to put in this food to make it do the things that I want to do?

And then it starts making me question, you know, what are they doing to do that?

You know?

Absolutely.

And it's like, yeah, well, it is.

It is fun to eat, but knowing the science behind, it's like, man, I really don't know how they're doing that.

Right.

To a scary.

To us, like a feared level.

Yeah, well, and also.

Yeah.

Like, what kind of.

What kind of stabilizing did you need to do?

Yeah.

How is it really made?

It's not really the same thing anymore because it has to be made to be durable when in the process, do you put it in and all that stuff?

So I think what I want to do to finish off before we go to break, kind of want to talk through launching the actual business.

What was the impetus to take it from doing it in the house and selling to friends and everything else?

What was the impetus to actually start this as a business?

Because I'm assuming you're still working a day job and everything else.

Well, actually, yeah.

So I was teaching at Rush Henrietta High School math teacher for five years.

Shout out to math teachers appreciate you.

Yeah.

So for a plethora of different reasons, both my fault and on the other side of things, I didn't end up getting tenure there, which, generally speaking, you know, if you're not getting tenure about two years in.

Yeah, three years in.

So wasn't given tenure and really didn't know where I wanted to go.

Cause I was ready to give my life to that school and felt really heartbroken by it and kind of picked up the ice cream thing during that time.

Yeah.

And then, you know, money issues ran in, so.

And I was like, well, I'm not really ready to give up teaching.

Maybe it just was like the suburbs.

That wasn't really my thing.

So I taught at UPrEp for two years, which is an all boys charter school in the city.

Mm hmm.

And basically was doing the ice cream.

You know, at night, I'd teach all day and then go in the kitchen until, like, midnight.

And then that reached a certain point where I didn't have enough energy for the students.

So, actually, this.

This spring, I did not renew my contract, and I'm all in on ice cream now.

Yeah.

There's.

There's something about getting thrown for a loop like that that makes you take a step back and think about.

Think about one.

Where.

Where do you want to end up?

And it does make you think about the next thing differently.

You know, when you ended up, you know, at a charter school, too, and then you get different experiences working different environments, and I'm sure you kept on coming in your head that there's.

What is.

What's the next thing?

Where.

Where am I ending up?

Yeah.

Because, I mean, I've always been a perfectionist.

I've always been somebody who's success oriented, and, you know, being able to have things that I can go, that I can say, yes, I was successful because x, y, and z.

Yeah.

And I was able to get that for a long time at Rush and then wasn't able to, because, you know, at the end of it, wasn't successful.

And then similarly, at UPrep, you know, being able to define success in challenging environments where you got to just take your wins as you get them, that was really difficult.

So I knew that I needed to put myself in an environment where I define my own levels of success.

You know, I know when I've made a good.

A good flavor of ice cream or done, sold a certain amount or reached in a certain number of followers, so on and so forth.

So being able to work to my own level and define my own success that's been really helpful.

Yeah.

I've been thinking about.

I've been thinking a lot recently.

I haven't come to a conclusion yet, but I've been thinking a lot recently about failure.

Not in a negative way, about being okay.

Being okay with shooting for something and not hitting where you're hoping to be.

I apologize.

This is, like, a completely self indulgent question.

As somebody who was planning on being a career teacher, how did that.

How does that hit you, not continuing to do that?

Yeah.

I mean, I wanted to be a teacher since I was in 11th grade.

I did an internship program my senior year of high school, working down at the middle school, teaching.

I think if you.

And I used to tell my students this, you know, like, if you are working towards success, failure is a part of that.

You will inherently hit roadblocks.

You will get questions wrong.

You will, like, if you are stressing yourself to be the best version of yourself, you will invariably fail.

But every failure is a learning experience.

You know, I learned a lot about myself by failing in those environments.

You know, I.

There was.

It was a quote that I heard, and they heard it from somebody else, but it was one of the great f.

One drivers or coaches, and he basically said, I've never learned anything from a win.

You don't.

You don't learn anything from winning.

You learn when you lose, and you learn when something doesn't go right and you go, okay, what went wrong?

How can I adjust?

And how can I make this better?

Yeah.

And it's the same thing.

And so now, on a day to day basis, if something doesn't go right in the kitchen or something doesn't go right with the cart, it's just constant problem solving.

So you can't view failure as a bad thing.

It's.

It's natural.

You just have to go.

Just take it as a learning opportunity.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I appreciate you.

Appreciate you answering, because it's.

Yeah, it's a.

It's something I think we all struggle with in one way or another.

And just something I want to integrate more into the show as I continue is not just that, but, like, these.

These are the fun opportunities we have to talk about.

Yeah, that's why we're here.

Talk about these, you know, sometimes challenging subjects as part of things.

But I think we're do.

We're gonna go to break.

We're gonna taste.

Taste a couple flavors, and we're gonna talk more about making ice cream with countertop creamery.

And we're back with the second half of our discussion with countertop creamery.

And I got a spoon in front of me, I got some pints in front of me, and I'm gonna taste a few things.

And I want you to kind of.

Let's talk through some of the flavors.

And some of these are going to be pretty straightforward, classic combination.

Some of them are a little bit different when it comes to ice cream flavors, but kind of culinary flavors.

Yeah.

So I'm excited to talk through some of these and, like, maybe get into a little of the development and some of the pitfalls when you are working through this.

Yeah, sure.

So first one I've got in front of me is campfire.

Yeah.

So this is campfire vibes.

This is our flagship flavor.

Ooh, interesting.

Right away, like, the aroma is kind of that rich, creamy cinnamon almost plays like this.

You know, it kind of smells to me, like when you're making, like, a carrot cake or a raisin, like a raisin kind of bread, it has that raisiny, like, rich, almost like fruit vegetal smell in a really pleasant way.

Like a carrot cake with raisins in it and spices.

Yeah.

So that started with me trying to copycat crumbs along the mohawk from Stewart's because it's a graham cracker base ice cream.

And then, you know, it's that thing of be the change you want to see in the world.

I hated when I'd buy a s'mores anything, and it wouldn't have toasted marshmallow.

It'd just be like regular marshmallow.

So I double scorch.

I, like, spread out an entire jar of fluff on a sheet pan, go through and scorch it once and make it absolutely black.

Spread it all in, and then scorch it again and make it gold so you get both of those flavor profiles.

I'm so disappointed you're not making all your own marshmallows yet.

It's a lot of work to make, to make that fresh every time, by the way.

Yeah, it's definitely doable, but, like, making your own, like, you know, proper, like, marshmallow style meringue and toasting it and mixing in, getting the right texture is wild.

Yeah.

And that's the thing with that flavor, especially, like, you know, the graham cracker pieces all from scratch, cutting them up into little tiny pieces, making sure they don't stick together, baking them, sugar coating them.

And then the chocolate pieces, you know, same thing.

Spread all the chocolate out on a sheet pan, cut it up into really small pieces, and serve it that way.

So that one's our best seller.

It's weird how much the nose.

So everybody on here, but I do judging with spirits sometimes, and sometimes the nose is disconnected from the flavor to a point.

It's weird how all those flavors combine in the nose where you can smell these different things, because now, having tasted it, it is pretty straightforward that it is that toasted marshmallow and the graham and the chocolate, but it evokes those creamy, rich, almost fruit notes on the nose.

And I love that I'm getting something different on the nose.

Aim on the palate.

It makes you want to go back for the next.

I don't know how many people smell their ice cream, but I try to smell everything.

Cause I think you get something different by taking a second.

Yeah.

So that's really enjoying it.

That's also part of our thing, is kind of having experience with the ice cream.

So that ice cream comes with a flaming marshmallow on top, and, you know, so I hand it to you flaming, and then you blow it out and you're instantly hit with this puff of marshmallow smoke.

So how do you, how do you feel about, how do you feel about the taste in the pint versus that experience with the smoke and everything else?

Have you thought about adjusting to maybe give it that wisp of smoke in there?

Or is it like you want that experience to be special when you're at the cart?

Yeah, so I definitely want the experience to be special.

The tough part with the pints is that it's a whole nother regulatory body.

Yeah.

And right now, I literally have to scoop out hard ice cream and pack it into a pint.

So, like, this is the ice cream that I scoop out four people at a, at a pop up, and I just pack it into a pint because I can't put it in as soft ice cream and layer it that way.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

Really, really frustrating.

And I have a bruised bone in my wrist from, like, scooping and doing that so much.

I mean, there's something, I mean, I've been around the coffee industry, not in for a long time.

I mean, how many people in the industry, because of, like, bad layouts or other things, have repetitive injuries from tamping espresso shots?

Yeah.

Because it's force.

And if you don't, like, properly stack your joints and work on efficiency, people get different repetitive injuries.

They'll get, you know, tennis elbow, they'll get, you know, tendonitis, they'll get other things like that just from that repetition.

Yeah.

So that's definitely a frustration with, I would imagine, regulation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, you know, when in the future, if I do, you know, when I do get those certifications.

I bought a little smoker I theoretically could for the ones that are going into pints.

Add a little smoke in the.

Smoke the marshmallow a little bit.

Yeah.

Or even when it's churning in the machine.

Oh, smoke the cream.

Yeah, smoke the cream that way.

Yeah.

But, yeah, it's.

It's all fun.

I'm.

I'm down to try anything.

That's awesome.

So speaking of.

So I've got maple mornings in front of me, and I'm smelling coffee right away.

Yes.

Yeah.

So this is, um, it's coffee ice cream with a homemade maple frosting swirl.

Okay.

And here, I'll let you try it first and then see what you think.

The maple really does come out.

I just tasted that little bit because I saw that I'm like, I did a freeze.

Weird.

Like, oh, it's got a swirl.

And that's very interesting.

Tastes like it almost has.

Am I tasting pepper in there, too?

No, just maple.

Okay.

Yeah, it's.

It's always interesting, you know, from one tiny taste.

Like, what are the things that are going to come out in your palate?

Yeah.

So texture is very nice.

Yeah.

This one has a different kind of density than the last one.

Finish is really nice.

I mean, it definitely evokes that creamy, intense coffee flavor.

And the coffee flavor is, like, really solid.

Yeah, it's real solid coffee flavor.

It's hard to evoke specialty coffee as much in.

In an ice cream.

It's something I found as I tried to make a coffee liqueur, that you can make something that doesn't have faults, but specialty coffee flavor is very volatile.

Yeah.

It degrades chemically, very quickly.

Yeah.

Not just with oxidation, but actually chemically degrades as it goes.

You can't maintain that forever.

Yeah, this is rich, actually vegan.

Oh, is it really?

Yeah, I guess the texture turned out great.

Coconut oat milk.

Oh, that makes sense for coffee and this flavor.

Yeah.

So when I do my.

Do our vegan flavors, um, I use oat milk.

Cause I'm like, if I'm gonna put in the energy to come up with a vegan ice cream, I want everybody to be able to have it and not somebody walk up and be like, oh, is this.

I'm allergic to nuts, but texture is very good.

Um, as somebody who is nominally vegan for a long time, um, you know, I still taste things because you have to, you know, keep fresh on things, but texture is really nice.

And there's something about, like, that flavor does work really well here because that, you know, oats, that almost toasty, grain like flavor works really well with maple and coffee.

Yeah, yeah.

Very complementary flavors.

Yeah, yeah.

Really enjoying that.

It, um.

It can definitely be difficult to hide the oat milk flavor sometimes.

That's why I haven't done a vegan vanilla, because I'm just too intimidated by, you know, trying to mask that because I would want it to be its own thing.

I wouldn't want it to be trying to be something that it's not.

You know, with chocolate, you can hide it really well.

But if I were to make a vegan vanilla with my recipe, people would be comparing it to a traditional vanilla, and I wouldn't want that.

I would want them to accept it for what it is.

You'd almost have to work with vanilla as a core flavor of it, but change it to be something different, where you're highlighting vanilla as the dominant flavor, but there's something else to distract's not the right word, but it is, like, you're distracting from, because vanilla has that delicate in the best way, a delicate, floral, complex flavor.

Or it can be, you know, you know, awful typical vanilla extract where it tastes like generic, nothing.

Yeah.

But villain.

Its best form is delicate.

It works with dairy really well, where you almost have to, like, get too much of it in there and then balance it with something else, whether it be something toasty or something brighten to.

Almost.

Smoked vanilla would be really good with the oat.

Yeah.

Like smoked vanilla and maybe a little bit of citrus.

Yeah.

You know, something to amp up and almost distract from that.

Like, not like caramelized citrus or, like, citrus rind, but something to.

Something to pop that toasted note where the citrus wants to work with that and that punchy vanilla wants to work with that.

Yeah.

I love the process of breaking down flavors.

I just find it completely fascinating.

Yeah.

So which one's this one?

Street corn.

Yeah, street corn.

Very excited about that.

So this one was a good lesson in failure and learning from your mistakes.

I tried making it last summer.

Did not work out well.

Basically had to throw the whole thing out.

Made it again this summer.

Tried a different thing for the, um, like, the swirl, which I wanted to be the topping on street corn.

Mm hmm.

And I tried using greek yogurt because I was too intimidated by putting mayonnaise in ice cream.

Yeah, I'm down for most things, but sure.

Yeah.

Putting mayonnaise in ice cream scared me.

So that also didn't work out well.

So I reached out to Casa de Maize in Rochester, which is a.

I think they literally just started this summer.

They're in a lotte business.

Really fantastic.

Oh, I'm not familiar.

Yeah.

Oh, like, don't care how messy my face gets.

I'm all in.

Are they.

Do they have a.

Do they have a storefront?

Where are they?

No, they're just doing pop ups.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah.

Just different, you know, I'm super excited.

Recognizing game.

I am looking for that as soon as we are off this recording.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

This definitely has that.

Like, you're getting that, like, a little bit of funk.

Yeah.

Getting that nip of heat.

Yep.

You're getting that corn flavor.

It's.

It's not as punchy of corn.

Yeah.

It's definitely more evocative of the elote versus corn specifically.

Yeah.

Not necessarily in a negative way, but, you know, it's always.

For me, it's always about the analytical tasting.

Yeah.

And when I say that stuff, some people take it personally.

Like, oh, it's not this.

I always just break it down.

Like, how.

What pops in your.

In your mouth?

Where does it hit?

How does the.

How does it break down?

Yeah.

Um, so I.

Part of another thing for our business is that at any given time, we like to have half of the menu be vegan, and we alternate which flavors are vegan and not.

So, you know, chocolate this week might be vegan, next week it might be traditional.

So for the street corn, I did a vegan sweet corn.

You know, no elote any in it.

It was just straight sweet corn.

And then for the traditional flavor, I did.

I actually flame roasted the corn, chopped it up, and put it in there.

And then.

Yeah, casa de Maise helped us out with the elote mix.

And then this one that you're going.

Yeah.

And it does, you know, it does coat that has that little bit of that.

Like, that.

Why am I forgetting, you know, that, you know, queso fresco, kind of that dairy cheese kind of funk that little bit.

Yeah.

Does make a lot of difference with.

Make.

You want to go back for the next bite.

Yeah.

I think the only thing for me is, like, I want the salt levels to be doubled.

Okay.

Like, I would want it to have that little bit of salty tang at the back.

Um, but I'm a.

I'm a voracious salter of sweet things.

Um, like, I would be grinding salt on every bite, almost like every layer of the pint.

I would be like, grind then I would eat it because, like, I think it amplifies the flavors.

And especially for that, like, I would want that little bit of.

That little bit of salty thing.

Yeah.

I'm always thinking, like, at the.

At the cart, where you have just a little thing of Tajin.

Of Tajin or a little bit, like, mix that with a little bit of.

That would work.

Or, like, Maldon salt.

Like smoked Maldon salt.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, a lot cheaper if you buy it in the pails, by the way.

Okay.

Now, if.

If you're using as much meld and salt as I think I am, uh, but buying it in the tubs is way cheaper per volume.

Yeah.

Um, and that's the thing.

Like, we do.

We do take a lot of feedback because we are so early on that, you know, it can only.

I never take offense to that stuff because it can only improve your experience, which ultimately is my goal.

Yeah.

And also, the other thing is, like, I know if everybody designed their flavors to appeal to me specifically, that would be a giant mistake.

Like, there's elements of it that would amplify.

Like, I might want double, but even if you want to buy 20% or 10% on the salt, it might liven things up a little bit.

So there's always a root of something there.

But I know for sure that people catering to my level of intensity, of flavor, concentration, and really bringing that, bringing that pop of salt, that pop of savory, that pop of other things, people get turned off by that sometimes.

I don't get it, but I also get it, like, yeah, I just want.

I want to be.

I want to be punched in the face by flavor as much as is possible.

So, I mean, harkening back to the salt and pepper ice cream that you had, you know, this would be considered a gimmick ice cream.

Yeah.

But I want our avant garde flavors to be something that you can have an entire cone on.

I love that.

Not just like a little sample, like, oh, yeah, that's funny.

Haha.

Yeah.

But like, oh, no, I want an entire.

I want an entire thing of this.

I love that.

I think that's.

That's important.

I think being able to make, and I think, to be fair, calling it a gimmick flavor is not wrong.

Right.

But the gimmick has to work, because otherwise, people are like, oh, they just threw stuff in a thing and we paid for that.

It's different if you're just serving it to a friend and you're like, hey, try this stuff.

Hey, see what you think of this.

But when you're selling it to people, they don't want to feel like they're being taken advantage of.

And it's not a great experience because they'll think about it once, but then they're not going to come back the next time.

Always.

Yeah.

And so yet another part of our.

Great nose on this.

I'm enjoying this already.

So another thing for our business is that we want to kind of bring, like, cocktail culture to ice cream.

So all of our, most of our flavors have a garnish on top.

Um, the sweet corn and street corn come with a mini baby corn that's, like, fire roasted right in front of you.

And for the street corn is dipped in that a lot a sauce.

Um, so this one that you're trying right now is our figgy figgy flavor.

Mm hmm.

It was a collab with figgy shop on park Ave.

Which.

They're just a gift shop, but not just a gift shop.

They are an incredible gift shop.

Um, and we, whenever we pop up somewhere, we collab with that business to come up with a flavor specifically for them.

So they did a pause for a cause event.

They had their birthday party this spring, and for this flavor, I'd been wanting to make a balsamic ice cream for a long time.

And I had in my head what it would taste like.

And then I made this, and I tried it, and it was exactly what I had in my head, which is, like, so wonderful when it works out like that.

I love the fruitiness.

This.

It almost amplifies the dairy flavors of the dairy in the best possible way, I think.

You know, balsamic can play very.

You can play cloying when it's too concentrated and they add tons of sugar to it.

But you get that hit, that little hit of vinegar on the nose in the best possible way.

Yeah.

That kind of plays like a strawberry.

It really does.

Yeah.

Um, and it does play very fresh fruit because of the acidity.

Yeah.

And that.

That's exactly what I would think about.

Yeah.

There.

And then there's also a fig jam swirl in that.

Okay.

I haven't hit that yet.

That's why I was wondering.

Yeah, because, like, those are.

Those would be the dark.

Got it.

There you go.

So that you get the tanginess up front, and then the sweet just, like, comes through like a machete and just slices through it and finishes off so.

Well, I was waiting for the fig in the base, and I wasn't gonna talk around it.

Yeah.

You know, sometimes you're gonna talk around it, like, where is the fig.

Is it really that?

Yeah, because the bass is really a balsamic base.

Yeah.

It's not really a super figgy base.

Yeah, it's a fig balsamic.

I mean, I wasn't about to go out and try to make fig balsamic, but, yeah, you know, just what I can pick up from the store.

Yeah.

Cause it is very nice and fruity.

Cause that can play very sweet on its own, but in the context of this, it works.

But when you get it with that little bit of extra, you know, that punch of sweet from the fig jam, man, that does work really well.

Yeah.

So that was.

That was a.

That was a moment where I was like, I don't want to call it synesthesia, because it's definitely not that, but, like, I could literally just close my eyes and taste what I was imagining, and then when I made it and put all the things together, it just, like, start to finish, played exactly what was in my head, and that was really rewarding.

Wish the street corner had gone the same way the first time around.

But not always meant to be.

No, I think.

I think that's always a bit of a challenge.

Is like, that works to me.

That's the one that grabs me.

Like, I enjoyed the other ones.

I think they're well done.

They're quality products, but that grabbed me because that.

It feels so complete.

Right.

I can tell right away that when you're talking about it, you've got a connection to it.

Right.

You feel really strongly about that.

And the others are really good, but I can tell right away when you're talking about, yeah, this is something I've been thinking about, and it tastes like that.

Yeah, yeah.

And so that's, you know, that's the goal for this, is to make ice cream that you can't necessarily find somewhere else.

Yeah.

And, you know, technically, I'm sure that some people, when they first read it, see balsamic and think gimmick flavor.

But I'm like, no, no, no, you got it.

You got to try it.

And then they're like, holy cow.

Yeah.

I didn't know I was missing this my whole life.

That's awesome.

So, yeah.

And people.

Some people come up to the cart, and our tagline is evocative craft.

Craft ice cream, because we want to evoke memories and feelings and joy and, you know, with the s'mores, the campfire vibes.

You know, you smell the marshmallow, and you, like, you think you're right next to the fire with that one.

I had quite a few people say, oh, man, this is like, I'm back in Italy again.

And so making flavors that actually make you feel something just on their own.

And then, you know, we add the little toasted corn on top or whatever.

That's what it's all about.

That and building community.

So, you know, like Casa de Mae's and Figgy shop and a bunch of other places that we've collabed with at.

Pandemonium, of course, which is where I tasted your stuff on a Friday night.

Yeah, I mean, Winterswan, Jen's artisan bread.

I could keep going and going and going, but the whole point of this is to build community and build something that people can be proud of in Rochester and be like, okay, when you visit Rochester, you got to visit.

You got it.

You got to do this.

You got to get a garbage plate and then finish it off with some countertop creamery.

So I'm going to throw out a challenge for you.

All right.

Before we dive into, like, what's next for countertop?

So I am going to challenge you to make something that and does one or the other.

But I think this will be a fun challenge, something that evokes either the puerto rican or jamaican communities of Rochester.

There's so many different directions you can go down, and I can give you a whole bunch of different, like, flavor directions to think about.

But there's some really amazing flavors that are in the drinks and in other things I think could make a great ice cream flavor.

Yeah.

And with the, you know, all the different, you know, communities of the city of Rochester, I think that would be a fun challenge to really embrace all the different aspects of what Rochester is.

Yeah.

One of my coworkers at UPREP used to work at sidebar.

Yeah, yeah.

And I really want to do a fried plantain.

Oh, that would be.

Oh, a sweet plantain ice cream would be awesome.

Yeah, that.

That's something.

That could be great.

I was thinking, like, you could also go down the road of, you know, tamarind or passion fruit.

Yeah.

Or jamaican, like, Hamica or what's.

You know, sometimes it's like, it'll be hibiscus and ginger.

Yeah, sorrel.

Yeah.

So it'll be hibiscus and ginger.

There's so many great directions.

Go down.

I love the idea of a, you know, sweet roasted or fried plantain ice cream.

Yeah.

Maduros.

It's so good.

Yeah.

So that would be my.

Just a fun flavor challenge for you to dive into.

If any local business is listening to this and wants to reach out to us.

I got a couple for you, man.

I've worked with a ton of different places around town, so I'm happy to introduce you to a few of them and get you.

I live.

I live right around the corner from everything is good.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And man, that's to be.

Yeah.

What used to be Peppa pot.

I'm not sure what it is now.

I have to.

I do feel bad.

I have to reach out to Marlene because she's one of my favorite people in Rochester.

Yeah.

Who ran Peppa Pot?

I.

She was.

She was so great to work with, with nominate.

She's one of the first places we worked with and I.

I can't say enough great things about her as a person.

And we loved working with her in the food.

So shout out to her.

Hopefully she's doing well.

So want to finish off with what's next?

What's next for countertop?

Are you just in the maintenance growth?

Are you into the next thing?

Where are you thinking you're going to be?

So next goal is definitely improving the machinery.

If I get the next size up of machinery that's actually water cooled, I would cut my batching time from 2 hours down to like 15 minutes.

And that would just free up so much more of my time to create flavors, work on the rest of the concept for the business.

Also, the speed of freezing changes your ice crystal shape significantly.

Yes.

And I've.

I've.

I have worked with bigger batch machines and my recipe does translate well to those machines.

That's awesome.

Which is really nice because, yeah, it would be a bummer to have to go and re rework everything, but.

Yeah.

Right now I just have the cartae that I built that I tow with my bicycle around Rochester.

Um, which means that I have to be the one doing that because not many people I know can tow a 600 pound cart behind a bicycle without, fair enough.

Without an e assist.

Um, so possibly in like, another cart that does have a motor in it or some sort of food truck.

Um, I don't want to give too much away, but there are some pretty cool machines that we're looking at on Facebook marketplace that could, could definitely be a cool experience for people to see.

That's awesome, man.

And then, yeah, we're going to be.

So once we get that next level of machinery that allows to wholesale two businesses.

So, for example, with our jamaican and puerto rican business friends being able to have an ice cream buy countertop creamery in their shop that, you know, they were collaborating on and they're able to sell as part of their menu as well as wholesaling to other businesses and things of that nature.

I think a brick and mortar is a ways off.

I was hopeful that by next summer I could do it, but being realistic, it's probably not going to happen.

I think things happen when they.

And it's not about.

It's not about like, oh, things happen when they need to happen, but it's more like when you're really working on developing what you're doing and you're going in the right direction, you have to be ready for an opportunity when it comes up.

And it doesn't mean you have to force.

You have to force the brick and mortar right away.

I've seen people do it too early and it doesn't work out.

It doesn't work out if you're not really ready.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

And that's definitely a lesson that I've been seeing around town and taking to heart.

And my girlfriend Lily is really good at grounding me in that, in that regard, because let's do it today.

And she's like, yeah, you're probably not ready, but she's supportive in other regards.

So, yeah, just the machinery.

And, um, we are doing affogato at AM FM because that's the space that we work out of.

So we are allowed to sell ice cream in that.

In that space.

So if you haven't checked out AM FM, Wade makes incredible coffee and you can choose a bunch of different flavors of ice cream and do an affigato with it.

So, yeah, I mean, a great spot right at the corner parcel 545, Euclid Avenue Street.

Euclid street.

And for those of you that have been around downtown for a long time, this was the second Fuego location.

So this is the same spot where pop rock was and everything else, but the direction that AM FM's going is really excited.

Exciting.

I'm excited to see you grow along with that and get to your next steps.

So why don't you throw out some plugs again for where people can follow you to see where you're popping up and then they know they can go to AM FM as well.

Yeah.

So we'll be popping up this week.

Well, yeah, this week we're going to be popping up at Fatty Beer company on Thursday and Jen's artisan on Friday.

Love Fatty beer.

They do.

They're just great guys to work with.

Chicken sandwiches.

They do a really nice job and it's a great place to hang out right in the new neighborhood of play.

Right in the heart of Rochester.

Yeah, I wish I could afford to open up a spot in there, but it's super expensive.

Yeah, for sure.

But yeah, you can see, you can find us on our socials.

It's all just countertop creamery.

We post our weekly schedule there.

We also have a website, countertopcreamer.com.

we've got a upcoming events page.

And then if you have a craft show or a private event that you're interested in having us for, and you want your own custom ice cream flavor for that event, you can just contact us countertopcraamer or just dm us on instagram.

Either way.

And yeah, that's all the spots.

Awesome, man.

Well, I really appreciate you coming over and talking about everything you're doing and for everybody who's listening, if you haven't checked out the other shows on the Lunchadore podcast network, go to lunchadore.org to see all, all of the shows.

We've got more shows coming very soon.

We've got nights and weekends by the sound.

We've got some content coming out from in this moment.

We're working with them on audiobooks.

We're super excited about that.

We've got Murphy's rank.

The world we've got just started is shelling peas from Ryan Jennings and Sweet pea plant based kitchen.

Lots of new stuff coming up.

We're so excited.

If you're interested in being involved, let me know.

You can reach out stromymail.com or Lunchadore podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.

We'll be back next time with more on the Food about Town podcast.

This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore podcast network.

Cut my Graham crackers into pieces.

This is my last s'mores resort.

That didn't quite work, but I'm gonna do it anyways.