Shownotes
Welcome to this episode of The Expat Experience, where real estate professional Robert DeForge explores the realities of buying property in Mexico. Today, he welcomes Luis Alfonso Navarette, an independent attorney specializing in real estate law in San Carlos, Mexico. Luis brings invaluable insight into the legal intricacies of property transactions, from reviewing contracts and verifying ownership to ensuring compliance with Mexican real estate laws. Together, they’ll discuss the challenges foreign buyers face, the misconceptions U.S. and Canadian clients often have, and the essential role of notaries in property transactions. Whether you're considering purchasing property in Mexico or simply curious about the process, this episode is packed with must-know information to help you confidently navigate the market.
IN THIS EPISODE:
- (00:57) Luis introduces himself and talks about his real estate law practice
- (03:51) Reveals the challenges and ethical considerations in purchasing property in Mexico
- (07:03) Discussion of misconceptions clients from the US or Canada may have
- (11:33) Luis shares that buying a property has become much more involved
- (15:51) Luis shares his educational background and what drew him to San Carlos
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
- Luis Alfonso Navarette is an independent attorney specializing in real estate and property law in San Carlos, Mexico. He reviews contracts, verifies property records, and ensures legal compliance before finalizing transactions.
- The public registry holds the final word on property ownership and liens. While Navarette reviews legal documents and ensures transparency, the notary public—appointed by the state—has the exclusive authority to formalize property transactions in Mexico.
- Buyers from the U.S. and Canada often misunderstand the Mexican property purchasing process, especially the role of notaries and realtors. Ensuring a property has a clear title and no liens are critical, and foreign buyers typically work with attorneys, realtors, a notary public, and a trust company to navigate the process smoothly.
RESOURCES:
Transcripts
Voice Over: [00:00:00] Welcome to the expat experience, your essential guide to relocating living and thriving in San Carlos, Mexico. Join seasoned real estate professional Robert [00:00:15] DeForge as he pulls back the curtain on seamlessly transitioning from dreamer to doer. Whether you're eyeing retirement bliss, seeking the perfect work from anywhere set up or hunting for your ideal vacation escape.
Voice Over: This podcast is your [00:00:30] compass to navigating the exciting journey to San Carlos, Mexico, living, get ready to turn your relocation dreams into sun soaked reality. Well,
Rob DeForge: welcome Louise. [00:00:45] Thanks for joining the expat experience. And we're glad to have you here. I want to learn more about what you do. If you could give us a little bit of background about your position and, uh, what your office does.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Thank you, Robert. Uh, thank you for the opportunity and [00:01:00] thank you for having me here.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, well, I am an attorney. Uh, I have my law, my law office, uh, down at the marina. In San Carlos. Um, I've been working here [00:01:15] since 2017. I'm originally from Hermosillo. Um, but I set up my law office, um, a couple of years ago here in San Carlos. And mainly, uh, what we [00:01:30] do, uh, is that we, we work in real estate law.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: And property law. Uh, we are more focused, um, in representing, um, people from outside of the country, [00:01:45] representing them in what they purchase, uh, property in Mexico, not only in San Carlos. But also in I WMA and, and the, the whole state
Rob DeForge: and the, the term in Mexico is [00:02:00] notario.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Uh, no, uh, I'm not a Notar exactly.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Not Notario. No. I'm an attorney. Uh, yes. I'm a, I'm a private independent attorney. Uh, and Rio will be, uh, a person, they, they must be, uh, attorneys as well, but they are appointed, uh, [00:02:15] as that by the governor of the state. And they are the ones, uh, they are the only ones that can make a feature a transaction, such as a purchase of a property.
Rob DeForge: And where, where do your services come into [00:02:30] the mix? When somebody say, someone, one of my clients wants to purchase a home, and we get a, an a, uh, an agreement, and they move forward, then what's the next step?
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Well, uh, mainly it's, [00:02:45] uh, reviewing that, all of the paperwork, it's all right. Uh, as you know, there are many parties involved in in transactions, uh, in in real estate, especially, and so it's always good to have, uh, let's [00:03:00] say a third party that is not part of the transaction reviewing that all of the information and that every single, uh, comma, every single letter, uh, it's there in the in the final title deed.[00:03:15]
Luis Alfonso Navarette: That all the buyer and the seller will be signing before a notary public. So I mainly review, uh, what the notary public does. I review the contracts that the parties, uh, sign. [00:03:30] Um, I review that all of the paperwork, uh, around the property, it's all right. It's all right. It's up to date. And that's, that's mainly what I do with regards to the purchase, uh, of property.
Rob DeForge: What are some of the things that you [00:03:45] see that you need to make people aware of during the process?
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Well, uh, first of all, um, we need to make sure that there are no liens. [00:04:00] that the that in the public registry, everything's fine. You know, the public as you know, the public registry is the one that has the last word.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: They are the ones that, uh, can that fight at the end. They make [00:04:15] official the transaction. So, uh, what I, uh, focus, uh, mainly focus, uh, it will be in the public registry records. So it's, uh, it's a matter of going to the office, uh, of the [00:04:30] public registry and review. Right there that all of the paperwork is in order.
Rob DeForge: So where are some of the challenges and, uh, ethical considerations in that process?
Luis Alfonso Navarette: [00:04:45] Well, um, being transparent, being honest with clients. Um, if I see some something that I think it's relevant and I think it's not 100 percent all right, I will let [00:05:00] my clients know that that I have seen this, uh, that it, uh, it does.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: It does not match, uh, with how the process should be done. So I focus mainly on being transparent and honest with my [00:05:15] clients and thank you Uh, I try to be very formal. Um, sometimes it can be not that not that is annoying, but I need to be formal. So that transaction at the end goes well, [00:05:30] especially at the public registry.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: They reviewed that all of the signatures and everything, it's okay.
Rob DeForge: Can you give us an example of a red flag, something that, that would pop up that you would have to tell the client don't go forward with this?
Luis Alfonso Navarette: [00:05:45] Especially if there's a lien, such as a mortgage. Um, or if the, if the property was involved in a lawsuit, usually you will see that in the public [00:06:00] registry records.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, so you have to go to the office and make sure that there are no liens in the property. That's, that's my, my, my, uh, the most important part of the process, of the process, I will [00:06:15] say. Uh, it's just a matter of going to the office and ask, uh, to review the records. Sometimes it'll take 5 10 minutes.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Sometimes, sometimes it'll take a couple of hours. Um, [00:06:30] but what I focus is mainly, um, Making the client sure that there are no liens in the property.
Rob DeForge: So your job is to make sure there's clear title and no encumbrances against the property. That is right. [00:06:45] Understood. With regards
Luis Alfonso Navarette: to, um, to the purchase of a property.
Rob DeForge: So when you're coming from the U. S. or Canada, what are some of the, the misconceptions that you encounter? Or, or, you know, bad information [00:07:00] that your clients have when they come to you?
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Well, um, what I have seen, uh, this, uh, past couple of years, it's that, um, people from, uh, Canada or the U. S., [00:07:15] um, they have, uh, an idea of how the purchase of the property is, uh, Uh, which, which works way different here in Mexico than, than in the U.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: S. Uh, uh, realtors in the U. [00:07:30] S. have a different status than realtors here in Mexico. And, um, sometimes people get confused as to the function of the notary. Uh, but the notary public in [00:07:45] Mexico, uh, they are, um, professionals. They are professional attorneys. They are well trained. They need, uh, in order to become a notary, you need, uh, um, [00:08:00] to have an experience of at least 10 years working, uh, in a notary public office.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: And it's a whole process. It's really difficult. There's a test that you need to take, which is not [00:08:15] simple. The test usually involves a complex situation. You need to know very well the civil code, the Sonoran civil code, in order to become [00:08:30] a notary public. And I know that's different in the case of in the US.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, but here in Mexico, the figure of the notary Uh, they are a fundamental part of the process and they [00:08:45] have lots of experience and at the end they are the ones that make it formal, that make it official. And after that, the public registry will record that, um, in the registry, but the notary [00:09:00] public is the one that makes sure that everything, uh, is in order and, and myself as an attorney, I review, uh, the work of the notary and if I see any, anything that, uh, doesn't match, I [00:09:15] will let the notary office know that.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: They should change, change this or that. I mean, they have a lot of work. It's natural that sometimes they miss something. So it's only a matter of working together as a team at the end. [00:09:30]
Rob DeForge: So in total, how many people do we have involved here? We have my, my self as an agent, we have notario yourself as another set of eyes on the, on the process and who else would be involved
Luis Alfonso Navarette: [00:09:45] sometimes the buyer.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Also have has a realtor that is working with them together. So sometimes you have two realtors, the notario and then a third party attorney [00:10:00] reviewing the paperwork working for the buyer most of the times.
Rob DeForge: And the trust company that that's part of the process as well. Yes,
Luis Alfonso Navarette: of course, you're right in the case of trust.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, the bank is the [00:10:15] one holding, uh, the property. Um, the ownership of the property and the trustees, uh, or fidei commissarios, they are the one using the property and the [00:10:30] bank. It's always, uh, or or usually it is a bank, uh, that is the one holding the trust and it works sort of the same way, uh, as they hold your bank account.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: So they have your money. Uh, [00:10:45] you can use your money any time you like. Uh, so it works sort of the same, uh, with regard to real estate bank trust the bank. It's holding, uh, the property, the ownership of the property [00:11:00] and you and you as a trustee, you are using the property. You can lease a property. You can sell the property.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: You can transfer the rights. Uh, you can do many things. But at the end, As with a bank account, [00:11:15] the bank is the one holding the trust.
Rob DeForge: So could you share some of your experiences that come to your mind, both good and bad, that you've encountered?
Luis Alfonso Navarette: [00:11:30] Um,
Luis Alfonso Navarette: with regards to bad situations, I prefer to, um, to not speak about that, um, in order to maintain some, uh, you know, uh, [00:11:45] privacy, uh, matters. Um, but the good thing is that, um, what I have seen is that, um, year after year, I have seen that the, the, the [00:12:00] trust, um, documentation, the, the final title deed, um, that document has become more and more complex.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: There are a lot of exceptions that the bank [00:12:15] specifies in the document. So what I have seen is that they are becoming more professional. For example, 10, 15, 20 years ago, a trust document will be around 20 pages, [00:12:30] 15, 20 pages. Nowadays, you, I have seen, uh, documents, uh, um, from the bank holding the trust around 50 pages.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: So I have seen that the banks, [00:12:45] um, the banks, the notaries and the realtors. They have become more and more professional and I think that's a good thing, not, not only in San Carlos, but also in Rocky Point, um, in places where our people from the [00:13:00] outside purchase properties.
Rob DeForge: To mention, you know, a lot of times what we face is a concern from buyers outside of Mexico there.
Rob DeForge: The process is, is much more involved. And they have concerns [00:13:15] that either they take a long time to get the title or, um, something comes up that unexpected. And it sounds like they would be well advised to [00:13:30] have someone like you in their corner during the process, just as another set of eyes. But is there anything else that you'd like to mention?
Luis Alfonso Navarette: I totally agree. Uh, well, what I would like to mention is that as this process, uh, [00:13:45] specifically the real estate bank trust, as I was saying, as it has become more and more professional. Um, it's natural that it will take some time for you to receive your title. The at [00:14:00] least at least it will take three months, and that's the least amount of time that it'll take.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, so it usually takes between three and six months. So it's a matter of being patient. And another thing [00:14:15] that I would like to say is that, um, in places such as San Carlos, uh, Rocky Point, Those, uh, places are special, um, living here in San Carlos. It's a, it's a [00:14:30] whole experience. Um, you have people from everywhere.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, when you go out, you can, you can talk to people, uh, from different standpoints, different, uh, world views. So, [00:14:45] I like that places, uh, such as San Carlos and Rocky Point, uh, are becoming more known, uh, in the U. S., Canada. And I will say sometimes, uh, sometimes Europeans Uh, we'll [00:15:00] find out, uh, that this is a good place both to invest to leave or to spend some time during the holidays.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: I, uh, when I talk to people that have been living here since the eighties or nineties, [00:15:15] um, they always say to me that San Carlos. In the eighties and in the nineties, it was a place where you can find people from all over the place from, uh, both the U. S. Canada and [00:15:30] Europe. So I would like to to to see San Carlos, uh, some more global.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Uh, plays both San Carlos and Rocky Point.
Rob DeForge: Is there anything else you would like to share as far as your path, [00:15:45] uh, what brought you to San Carlos? Tell us a little bit about your educational background.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Sure, sure. I would love to. Well, as I said in the beginning, uh, I'm originally from Hermosillo. I was born there in the [00:16:00] eighties, 84.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: And, um, well, my father, he was a natural Republic and, uh, I went to law school. Um, I wanted to continue working, um, uh, with him and I went to [00:16:15] last law school in 2003, uh, at the University of Sonora, the public university. Um, I had the greatest experience there. Um, uh, in the second year of law school, [00:16:30] um, I was founder and director of the law school journal.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: And we publish, uh, 13 issues from 2004 to 2009, 2008, I'm sorry. [00:16:45] Uh, we published 13 issues, um, and we had, uh, uh, graphic designer and she, um, she even, um, sent, um, [00:17:00] her designs of the magazine to international, uh, contests. And she won a couple of times, um, so it was a, uh, a mix of art and law and that was interesting.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, [00:17:15] so that was in, in law school, during law school, uh, I was so focused on, on legal, on research and legal, legal philosophy, jurisprudence, and I had the opportunity, um, of, um, getting [00:17:30] two scholarships. Um, and, and I, I, I went to the National Autonomous University of Mexico, uh, to do two research stays, stays at, um, uh, the Institute of [00:17:45] Legal Research of the, of UNAM, the university.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: And I had the greatest time there. Uh, in the beginning, the first time I went. Uh, I was doing research, uh, in the area of artificial intelligence applied [00:18:00] to law, and, and the second, uh, I was doing research, research, uh, in legal philosophy. So it was a really fun experience, uh, in law school because as students, uh, we had access to these, uh, scholarships [00:18:15] and the University of Sonora and the National Autonomous University of Mexico.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: They had an agreement, so they sent us students, uh, to do some research, uh, uh, with really qualified, um, [00:18:30] uh, professors, uh, at UNAM. So I had that, that advantage of, of, of doing those, uh, two research stays. Then, as I said, um, I graduated, uh, from law school [00:18:45] in 2008 and, uh, but since 2007, uh, I started clerking at the Sonora State Supreme Court and I clerked there, uh, from 2007, 2008, [00:19:00] 2009 until the beginning of 2011 because that's when I went to the University of Minnesota to do my, uh, Master of Laws.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: under the guidance of Professor [00:19:15] Brian Biggs. Um, he's a wonderful person. Um, he helped me a lot with my research project. Um, I was doing some research, uh, in the philosophy of punishment, which is, which is a [00:19:30] subject that I still, uh, work and think about it. Uh, it's interesting. Uh, so I stayed there, uh, in the University of Minnesota, uh, doing my master's, uh, for around two years.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: From [00:19:45] 2007, uh, I'm sorry, it's 2011 to 2000, um, 12 or or the end of 2011, more likely. And, um, then I [00:20:00] went back to Hermo, um, and I worked there, um, a couple of years. Um. In real estate law, um, working, uh, at a couple of law [00:20:15] firms there of, uh, people are close to me. And then, um, in 2016, my wife and I, we got married and, [00:20:30] um, we, we were, um, living in Hermosillo, but we always wanted, uh, to live, uh, somewhere else.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, and. And we thought about, uh, these crazy ideas of going to [00:20:45] Europe, going to Prague, uh, going to Ensenada, to Baja, and, um, but since, um, since 2010, uh, before, before my master's and after, um, [00:21:00] we, we had a couple of friends, uh, living here in San Carlos, uh, really close friends, uh, we still are, uh, we are compadres.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: And so we said, you know, we, we have this really strong [00:21:15] connection with this great group of people in San Carlos. What if we go there? Um, if we need to work in Hermosillo, we just go there. It's just one hour away, two hours away. So it's a, it's a matter of going back and forth. [00:21:30] And so we decided to move to San Carlos, continue working in Hermosillo and started working in San Carlos.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Um, my wife, she's a photographer. Um, so she's still working in Hermosillo. Uh, me [00:21:45] too. We are. Um, but mainly, we are, um, uh, focused on establishing. Uh, we are, we are already established in San Carlos. Um, so that, that was our goal. Um, and we, [00:22:00] we finally made it. Um, we have been working in this office, uh, for around four years.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: And it's been a great experience. Thank you for that.
Rob DeForge: Okay, well, thank you very [00:22:15] much, Luis, for coming on the program and sharing a little bit about what you do and telling us a little bit about your, your life path. Appreciate it very much.
Luis Alfonso Navarette: Thank you, Robert. Thank you for having me.[00:22:30]
Voice Over: We appreciate you joining us. Visit expatexperiencepodcast. com for more practical tips and insights on making your move to paradise. We're here to help navigate the process of [00:22:45] relocating to San Carlos every step of the way. Start your journey toward living the dream in Mexico.