Tech's Pre-Seatbelt Phase with Eva PenzeyMoog
Episode 25th August 2021 • Collaborative Craft • 8th Light
00:00:00 00:41:50

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Designing for safety is about designing against interpersonal harm. I use the stories of real life people who have gone through experiences with technology-facilitated violence and abuse. Telling these stories is a really powerful way to get people to understand what's happening.” - Eva PenzeyMoog

When we think of technology breaches, the image that comes to mind is of a nefarious hacker. For people that are the survivors of domestic violence and abuse, more often than not, people in their own lives are the perpetrators of these everyday issues of security.

Eva PenzeyMoog is the founder of The Inclusive Safety Project and the author of Design For Safety. Eva is on a mission to raise awareness about the interpersonal harm that can come from technology products and tell the stories of survivors.

This week on Collaborative Craft, she discusses ways that designers and technologists can better create products with safety in mind. 

  • (00:00) - Content Warning
  • (00:30) - Guest Eva PenzeyMoog 
  • (04:15) - Designing against interpersonal harm
  • (04:52) - Safe design in Tech
  • (06:25) - A threat model ignored
  • (07:34) - More likely someone you know
  • (09:15) - Trailblazing in tech: Dr. Leonie Tanczer  and Molly Dragiewicz
  • (11:29) - Vulnerability and the courage to speak out
  • (15:08) - If you can speak out, then you have to 
  • (17:40) - To communicate powerfully, tell a story
  • (20:16) - An example of the process of inclusive safety
  • (24:58) - Apple AirTags
  • (29:03) - The time it takes to design for safety
  • (32:00) - The History of Seatbelts
  • (34:04) - Ethics: Safety, Inclusion, and Compassion
  • (36:33) - Design for Safety 
  • (39:15) - Final Thoughts with Eva

Eva PenzeyMoog is a principal designer at 8th Light and the author of Design for Safety. Before joining the tech field she worked in the non-profit space and volunteered as a domestic violence educator and rape crisis counselor. At 8th Light she specializes in user experience design as well as education and consulting in the realm of digital safety design. Her work brings together her expertise in domestic violence and technology, helping technologists understand how their creations facilitate interpersonal harm and how to prevent it through intentionally prioritizing the most vulnerable users. To learn more about Eva, you can visit her website at

Thomas Countz is a Senior Software Crafter at 8th Light where he works with a variety of ambitious teams on a variety of ambitious projects. A true curious nerd at heart, Thomas digs into everything from robotics and cider making to bouldering and Shakespeare’s comedies. To hear even more about Thomas, you can follow him on Twitter at @thomascountz and visit his blog at

Jerome Goodrich is an adoring husband, new dog dad, and all-around curious explorer. Through his work as a Principal Software Crafter at 8th Light, Jerome leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website:

8th Light partners with businesses and community groups to craft software that unlocks human potential and makes the world a better place. We’re passionate about designing for people, inspiring through education, and empowering the future. With teams spread across the globe—including Chicago, London, Los Angeles, New York, Austin, and Madison—we’re always eager to hear about ambitious new projects. Learn more about our team and reach out at

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Podcast episode production by Dante32.