Benne Peto opens with her commercial-to-HR journey and explains why growth-focused people strategy starts with business outcomes, not learning activity. The conversation then lands on the core argument: one-size-fits-all development is expensive theatre unless it is targeted at the people and capabilities most likely to shift performance.

Hello, and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast.

In this podcast, we'll be hearing from other industry leaders to get their

thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business.

This podcast is aimed at leaders from exec all the way down to line managers.

You're listening to part one of a three-part series.

Hello, and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast with myself, Matt

Best, and the wonderful Bill Bauer joining me at the table today.

We're both joined by Benne Peto, and she's an experienced chief people officer in

the financial services space, working, with wealth management organizations

and driving organic growth, so Benne, thank you so much for joining us today.

we're thrilled to have you at the table.

Thanks for asking me.

I'm really, pleased to be here.

Yeah.

That's wonderful.

And look, I think as we've talked about, or as I mentioned just at the

top there, this podcast episode really is all around driving commercial growth

within, within the wealth management space, both organic and inorganic.

and I know your- you've got an incredible rich history in this, in this space.

So Benne, tell us a little bit about your career so far.

Yeah.

when I was younger, I started actually in commercial roles in

retail operations, then went into consulting, and then moved sideways

into HR- looking at change management and development, and then eventually

moving into HR director positions.

So I think that sort of background of starting with the commercial heart

of the business or front of mind before then thinking about what, HR

tools, what development can I leverage to help deliver on that strategy

for growth has really, helped me.

And over the last sort of 15 years, I've been lucky enough to be, a CPO

or HR director in high growth PE businesses within financial services.

So I've really had the opportunity to really flex that muscle and make sure that

HR is really delivering for the business, and its growth and commercial agenda.

Wow.

Yeah.

And I know we've worked together a little bit at, one of those-

Yeah … one of those financial services business, Evelyn Partners, of course.

and, your real- I guess sort of strategic forward-thinking approach that you,

put forward and mandated at Evelyn Partners, I think is, is a big part of

what we're here to talk about today.

And I love that linkage that you make between your commercial experience

and how you could see then as a, chief people officer- Yeah … how it was,

how that was so important in terms of how you could be a, a key component

in the growth of that business.

it'd be good maybe for the, audience just to understand a little bit

about that, what that s- what was that story at Evelyn Partners?

What was it that, that made you take that, take that approach and the approach that

you did, and perhaps even just describing a little bit about that as well.

Yeah.

Evelyn was really performing well.

Now, both inorganically in terms of its M&A strategy, and comparing

well in terms of its organic growth com- to its competitors.

So it wasn't as though there was a challenge or a problem with performance,

but I think the CEO at the time, Chris Woodhouse, saw that, there was a still

an opportunity to do better, and he set me the challenge of looking at driving

the development of its practitioners.

Yeah.

but what he wanted was to make sure that we were developing the

right skills with the right people.

And I'd been in the business for about a year, and of course, I was like, "Yeah,

can- I can absolutely do that." Walked out the office and went, "Oh my God."

"What am I gonna do?" So what I really need, it was a blank sheet of paper and

it was a great challenge and a great opportunity, but what I needed to do

was to pull together, an approach which was really targeted and analytical.

So we needed to understand

what traits, what personality traits were associated with high performance.

Yeah?

And, and therefore also to understand the capabilities that were also

associated with high performance.

And, we know who are our high performers.

Yeah?

We have that data.

It's within the business.

So then you can start to correlate what are the personality traits there,

and what are those people good at.

So it's not rocket science, it's within your own business.

You can find it out, but you do need to be analytical, and you do need to be

targeted and use the right tools, and that's what we're talking about today.

Yeah.

A- and what led you to take that sort of ana- 'cause I guess there, there

would be some in your position who would say, we've got this challenge.

We need to drive that.

Let's focus on, you know- throwing some stuff out there- Yeah … and having

a go at some things- Yeah … rather than taking that day-to-day approach.

What was it that, that, that helped you to realise that's, what you needed to do?

Yeah.

I think firstly, the CEO, explained he didn't want that approach.

He wanted something that was targeted and was going to, give

us, a real return on investment- and move that performance style.

And I think all CPOs, all leaders, all businesses have seen those generic

and vanilla development approaches where you give everybody the same

development, you spend quite a lot of money, and it doesn't move the dial.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so you, we know that isn't gonna work.

I knew it wasn't going to work.

My CEO knew it was not g- going to work.

And what the business and the leadership team were looking for was something

different, something that was based on, I think, more rigor, more analysis, and

therefore had a higher chance of success.

And it proved to be successful- Yeah … because taking this approach, we, with

the pilot group, we saw, a 30% increase on their AUM growth compared to, their QIS.

The controls.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The control group, yep.

And, and also that return on investment, that increase in

performance was sustained over a three- Yes … year period that we measured.

it, the results speak for themselves.

We all know what doesn't work.

But, doing it differently, being more targeted, being more analytical, you

can get the results you're looking for.

Yeah.

and I, sometimes think, some of this stuff is what I always think of as L&D

theater in a way- Yeah … which is w- we wanna be seen to be doing something.

Yes.

we've got some budget, we've gotta, wanna be

seen to be doing something.

And I think o- one of the things that fascinates me about that story

is th- two, two crucial things.

The first one is you start fixing the roof while the sun's shining-

which I think is really interesting.

So there was no sense of complacency that we're doing well organically,

we're doing well inorganically, tickety-boop, nothing to worry about.

No, we can, we just power on through.

No, there was always a sense that this was a platform from which to do even better,

and I think that's, that kind of ambition is really, is really very notable.

and the second one is exactly that.

The whole thing about, no, we're not just going to do some theater

where we are, we're gonna be showing that we've done something.

We're actually going to try and do something that makes a difference.

And as you say, makes a difference not just once, but

actually in a sustained way.

That's a really, powerful approach.

Yeah.

And, and when we talk about this thing of, that, that same

development one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work, why?

if you think about the audience here, like why doesn't that approach?

Yeah.

I, think, what- the more analytical approach does is that you're

identifying through the personality traits, you're identifying those

people that have the potential Yeah.

To change their behaviors and develop further, right?

And that's where you need to invest.

Yeah.

You might e- every organization and team has a range of capabilities, yeah?

Some lower, some higher, yeah, and, those that are really, high potential.

But by targeting your development and your investment to those that have

that highest potential that you've identified, then you're going to get

You're really going to move the organization forward.

And it's not that you shouldn't have development for the rest of

the team, but it's where you're going to invest the most, yeah?

If you're going to do a high investment, high contact- development, that's

where you need to do it and that's where you're going to get the return.

I think this is a really interesting point of, I think there's

this assumption perhaps of, if I take a targeted approach, that means

I'm ignoring half the business.

So what you're saying there clearly, and what we would advocate for of course,

is that you'll … it's just about a different approach for different people

at different stages based on their, needs.

Yeah.

So it's actually a fairer outcome for everybody, 'cause you don't get those

individuals who turn up to a training session who are, either bored because

they, you know- Yeah … because genuinely they're high performers

and they, do it all already.

They have

the high capability already.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or the other side, where they land in a room and go, "Oh my

gosh, I can't" … I'm stranded.

"I'm stranded. I've got no idea what they're talking about. I don't understand

this language, let alone how I'm supposed to take it forward." Yeah.

So I think, that's a really important point, isn't it?

Yeah, it, is.

And the thing is you, through this profiling, the personality traits, the

key is, looking at your high performers and identifying that profile, yeah?

Now, it's not to say that those people are, who already, high-performing

can't increase their performance more.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But they're going to think that they are already developed, and

they're probably well developed, but there's always room for improvement.

But what you're doing is taking those sort of profile and saying,

who else in the organization who is maybe earlier in their career would

really benefit from the development, and taking their development up and

therefore increasing their performance.

But the key, one of the key things to do is involve the high performers.

Yeah.

Make them the mentors as well, yeah?

So you're not just, learning from, let's say, the trainer at the

beginning, at, the front of the room.

There are high performers in there, and you're using them as mentors

to say, "Yeah, that's what I do.

Yeah.

That's how I am successful." And actually, you dial up their performance.

You,

get them to be leaders of the team from within, yeah?

And an advocate for the program, and also they're coaching their

colleagues by being in the room.

that internal sharing of best practice and learning from others, as well as

learning from the program itself- Yeah

the more formal training, is really, important.

That's

really powerful.

Yeah.

But it's the proximity to the learner in terms of

the experience level as well.

We often talk about this, of course, in, in, programs.

If I was to, have Rory McIlroy teach or use Rory McIlroy-

Yeah … as a, as a, benchmark for me to play golf, I'm so far off.

Just for the audience, I'm not-

Yeah

… Matt Best: as good as Rory McIlroy, right?

So, therefore it becomes like, I couldn't possibly hit it that far, or I- th- I'm

never gonna be able to putt that well.

those are the things, whereas actually by, bringing me closer to

somebody who's at a similar level, I can start to see the journey.

I can see the pathway and the opportunity- Yeah … to develop my own skills.

And, having, that awareness is really, important.

So when it came to the capabilities, so you said, Benne, and part of that

program, and obviously part of the work, that we're increasingly doing

with, with, a l- with a lot of our clients now is- is mapping those and

understanding those capabilities.

So again, back to that Evelyn example, like, how did you define

and assess what those capabilities or behaviors needed to be?

Yeah.

So you broadly know, from your competency frameworks- Yeah … what

capabilities that you're looking at, and they're all probably pretty important.

Yeah?

So you still need, let's say there's six or eight key ones, you still need

to be developing on those fronts.

But what you're trying to do through this program is really identify the ones that

really make the difference- Yeah … that you need to focus on first, that are the

performance accelerators, And the way in which you do that, line management

assessment of, you're, looking at your high performers, and your line managers

are saying, are helping you with the assessment saying, "These high performers

are really good at these things." You also get them to assess themselves.

That's a valid way as well.

But you tend to have unconscious competence.

So maybe, that's not gonna give you all the data points you need.

But what we found was really, powerful was doing observations.

Yeah.

All right?

So observing the high performers in action, how do they approach their work?

How do they approach their day?

how do they, get things done?

How do they organize themselves?

But also, how do they approach developing their network?

How do they approach, conversations with clients and building relationships?

So really- observing that, and how that happens within your organizational

context and your clients, I think that's where the gold dust is.

So you've got to get into that detail and really try and document

that and understand what are the capabilities within your organization

that are, have that X factor.

Yeah.

I mean- Yeah … w- we've talked about this before, and I think it's such a,

again, it's a perhaps a slightly subtle point, but it's a really pivotal one.

You talked about your organization and your context.

It's not that there is a single profile which will be the same for business A

as is for business B, as bus- is for business C. And the kind of thought

experiment I always use for this is to say, well- business A is, dominant

in the market, very large, has a huge array of internal support resources.

and, a- and the role that people are being asked to play is lo- is, principally

about servicing an existing base.

Business B is a challenger in the market, has a limited brand, very little in

the way of support resources, and a lot of what's being done is new business.

of course, the profiles that you need, the capabilities you need for

those two people are not the same.

So it really, you … I think you've used the word unique target capability

profile, Benne, which I really like, which is that you need to isolate

the unique target capability profile, which is what's driving success in your

business in all of the contexts, both external in terms of the market and also,

but also really importantly internally in terms of resources and support.

some businesses will, want people to do more of this stuff themselves,

and others will actually have a whole team which does that for them.

And, y- it's not the same.

Yeah.

It's not the same.

So I think that's the crucial point is it's, not just that you need to be

correlating capabilities with performance, but you need to be doing it uniquely

in your organisation and context, which is another way of saying no cheating.

Yeah, But it is your- Yeah … what you're doing by

developing this insight in terms of who are the people that are successful

within our organisation, what are their personality traits, and what

capabilities lead to success within our organisation in these roles.

That's your IP.

Yeah.

That's your IP as an organisation, and that, building on

that insight is really going to be able to take you forward in so many ways.

Yeah.

really understanding your people, their capabilities, their profiles, and what

really enables them to perform highly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I guess this is

when we think about this from a wealth management context specifically, and we

think about, the challenge for lots of wealth management firms out there at the

moment, which is that, that, the Holy Grail of organic growth- Yeah, And, I

guess it comes back to your talk of, IP.

their IP, the capability's the IP, but the, value is in the

individuals and, what they deliver.

So- Really recognising and understanding that, and they, the 3X performance that

you referred to- Yeah … previously is the, it, that, that's the, that's what we

need to be able to scale across, across the team to find that organic growth.

Yeah, absolutely.

And, I think any organization, every organization, including

wealth management, really needs to get that sustained organic growth.

Yeah.

But I think, an organization that can supercharge that,

yeah- and make it central to its strategy, i- is, going to win.

Yeah.

And, as you mentioned, wealth management is about those

relationships with clients.

It's about building trust and having the expertise.

It's a highly competitive market, yeah?

retaining clients is a challenge nowadays.

Yeah.

It's really, competitive.

There's lots of alternatives that clients can go to, platforms

and, you know- other businesses.

So you have to, as a practitioner, really work hard not only to

retain clients, but get new ones.

And knowing how to do that well, I think every practitioner welcomes and, w- you

know, we've talked before about, what's in it for the practitioner, right?

Because they've got to buy into this, they've got to want to do it.

But a lot, practitioners are client-focused.

They want to win new clients.

They want to retain their clients.

developing them further to be able to do that better, that's a win-win,

a win for the business in terms of growth and a win for them as well.

And, Matt, one of the things I think, again, this coming back to

this data-led approach and the what's in it for me, is that of course once

you've actually done the correlation work, you can start to give people not

just a generalized what's in it for me, which is if these are the capabilities

that matter and if you are better at them you'll be more successful.

But you can actually start to say to them, "Look, if you got these three

capabilities from where you are now up to the level of the average, that would

mean X percent more for you." Yeah.

X percent more AUM in this case for you.

Because we've got data, so you can give people qui- a quantified what's

in it for me as well as a general one.

And that's not everything.

A- as Benne quite rightly says, they're also very concerned about

making sure that their clients are getting a better experience-

Yeah … and we must never neglect that.

But- at some point what goes in their pockets matters.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And what we found was, those practitioners that had been on the initial pilot

program, had been through it, we did videos, advocacy videos- Yeah … et

cetera, of them talking about the impact that it had on their own performance.

And again, practitioners hearing from other practitioners, from

colleagues that they respect, that this has really made a difference

for them, their performance- Yeah

of course, their bonus at the end of the day.

Yeah.

But also being able to retain more clients and, bring more clients into the business.

you can imagine a practitioner hearing that, that's really

gonna sell it into them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's the key catalyst, again, as we think about the success

of a behavioral change program.

Stick with us.

Part two continues the conversation

For more insights, make sure you subscribe, and if you enjoy the journey,

don't forget to leave us a review.

Your feedback fuels our growth.

Until next time, keep up that forward-thinking mindset.

Goodbye.