For the Season 1 finale of Odejuma, Harry chats with James Rogers III, a celebrated screenwriter and executive producer whose creative path is truly inspirational. Growing up in Compton, James never imagined a life in Hollywood until a film class with his father sparked a passion that would reshape his future. From working as a production assistant on a Frank Ocean music video to writing for 'The Mysterious Benedict Society' and now serving as an executive producer on 'The Chi', James reflects on the lessons, pressures, and triumphs of his journey.

Together, they unpack the power of representation, the beauty of collaboration, and the art of telling stories that honor the complexity of Black life. Warm, insightful, and deeply human, this conversation celebrates creativity, authenticity, and the magic that happens when we dare to imagine ourselves on screen.

Watch 'Rocky Road on Channel Three' here: https://bit.ly/RockyRoad3

Watch 'The Chi' here: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/the-chi/

Connect with James on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamesearliii/

For more information on Harry, visit: https://www.harryitie.com/

Hi, my name is Harry and welcome to odejuma.

Odejuma recognizes the magic of storytelling.

From personal experiences to stories of adventure, from tales of resilience to finding joy in the simple things.

This story seeks to inspire, entertain, and educate.

Because there is power in the stories of everyday people.

And these stories are worth telling.

Hi, folks, welcome to another episode of odej.

I'm pretty excited about this one because I'm getting.

I'm gonna speak to one of the writers of my favorite show on TV right now, but he's also a very super talented screenwriter.

Filmmaker and everything in between.

Hi, James.

How you doing?

Pretty good, Harry.

How are you?

I'm doing pretty good.

It was getting chilly in Minnesota and so, you know, we are out here in our layered up gradually and trying not to be too cold.

I know, it's pretty warm in California, right?

It actually rained today.

Oh.

You know, and of course when it rains, the city loses their minds.

People were driving like this.

Explains my Beyonce hoodie.

It got a little.

The temperature dipped below 70, so I had to, I had to come out.

I'm sure it was nothing compared to what you're experiencing, but for a born and raised Angelina like myself, anything and everything is cold.

Well, shout out to.

Shout out to the hoodie.

Shout out to Beyonce.

And speaking of Los Angeles born and raised, talk about growing up in LA and how did that influence your journey into entertainment and filmmaking and screenwriting and everything?

Yeah, so I grew.

I'm from Compton, California.

A city you heard of?

Yeah.

I mean, for me, I had no affiliation with Hollywood, no aspirations to really be a writer.

I didn't even know that was something you could do.

My parents were very protective of me and didn't really want me to get involved in a bunch of that.

So I didn't even really step foot in the city of Hollywood until I was like 18, because my parents were like, you're going to law school.

You know, this is what we've raised you to do and this is who you're going to become.

And so it wasn't really.

I think I grew up watching television and loving television and I knew what good writing was, but it wasn't until I went to undergrad in the Bay Area, I went to UC Berkeley, where I decided to major in film and media studies.

It was more so.

It wasn't any practical filmmaking.

It was more so the theory of filmmaking.

Berkeley is a very philosophical institution, so we didn't really.

We weren't making movies.

But as a small aside, I went to college with My dad, because he was a returning student, so he went to college a little bit later.

And.

We took a class together, and it was a film class.

And that was actually the class that inspired me to pivot and become a filmmaker.

And so I came back to Los Angeles with this new inspiration to write, create, and find my way into the industry.

And I did.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But in the beginning, there was nothing.

There was no.

No, you know, connection.

Everything that I had that I knew I was going to have to do to make this dream happen, I had to do on my own.

Yeah, of course.

I had a lot of mentors and great people along the way.

I was.

I started from the bottom.

Shout out to that.

And something you said really just struck me that you actually went to college with your dad.

And I think that for every young person, going to college is like, finally, I'm breaking free from your rules and everything.

I'm going to live my life.

Living la vida loca, I would say.

How was.

How was it having that experience with your father on the same campus?

Yeah, I think it was, like.

It was very weird because I was freshly 18, 19, ready to get out there and do some damage.

And so it wasn't just that my dad moved to Berkeley.

My whole family did.

So my mom, my three younger brothers, they all moved to family housing, which was off campus.

So I never really saw them a lot.

But still, the fact that I could stumble somewhere a little bit drunk and then my dad might be around was enough to kind of keep me on my toes.

So, you know, it was helpful in that.

My family moved away when I was in high school, so I, like, I. I missed out on my senior year being with my family.

You know, I had to live with my sister.

So in a way, it kind of felt like I was.

But going to college, I was going home, and so I didn't mind it.

I got to see.

I didn't want to miss those pivotal years of my younger brothers growing up.

And, you know, I was happy to have them near me.

It just meant that my parents also now expected other things of me.

They were like, my parents would go on a trip and be like, drop off my.

They would drop off my three brothers in my dorm room, you know, and, you know, but it all became fodder and new things that I could write about.

You know, I think it's a very unique experience that I hope to one day bring to the television screen or the film screen, because I think who can.

How many people can say they went to the number Any college with their father, you know, but a school like Berkeley, very, very particular.

Yeah, it's a very unique experience.

So I was just fascinated by, by that piece of knowledge.

So you go to, you go, you get your degree.

What happens between then and when you get.

You land your first television gig?

So many things.

First of all, as much as I'm saying, I went to go be a filmmaker.

My parents were also like, no, you're.

You're still going to be a lawyer.

So the first thing I did was I spent a year in Washington D.C. this is during the Obama years, so thank God.

But while I was there, I took the lsat, I applied to law school, I did all of the steps, still intending to follow this path because my dad went back to school to be a lawyer because he never got to go to law school when he was younger.

So the dream for us became becoming a father and son law firm.

And we have the same name.

So it just was.

It all was going to work out, but I just found myself working on Capitol Hill.

Not that I hated it, but I just.

I felt more creative than that.

Like I was writing short stories.

I had just started to understand that I could write and I didn't know where to put it.

And so it was spilling out all over every notebook, read the back of every, you know, piece of paper that I could do.

And so I said, I'm not going to law school.

I got into some schools and I just came back to LA and said, no, absolutely not.

And I came back and I again, didn't know anybody.

So the first thing I did was, this is going to sound crazy, but I didn't know what else to do.

Someone on Craigslist, that was the first thing that I did, you know, throw it back to.

And I literally, this.

Don't ever do this.

But I googled the word I.

Look, I searched the words Frank Ocean because it was my favorite artist at the time on Craigslist.

And lo and behold, it felt like destiny.

At that time, a music video for Frank Ocean was shooting in the middle of the nowhere.

And they were like, we're looking for PAs.

We're not gonna pay you, but it'll be a great experience.

I had no said experience.

I also thought, maybe there's a chance where I get out there and they murder me and this is all a lie.

But this is how.

This is how dedicated to this dream I am.

I'm gonna go out and see what happened.

And lo and behold, it was a real video.

It was my first PA experience.

And I got to meet Frank.

We bonded over both liking Pop Tarts that don't have the frosting on them, which people think is weird.

That was my first taste of like, oh, wow.

I love being on set.

And it was just a music video.

But I now knew I was a little bit closer to what I needed to do.

And so I started looking up USC student films, low budget features, anything that I could work on just to be around set.

And so I kept doing that.

I kept doing that.

And I was also working at a nonprofit at the time because I was broke and I needed money and I had a, a chance run in with a very, very well known director producer named J.J. abrams.

And that changed everything because I was J.J. and his company, Bad Robot, were funders on this program that I was in charge of this nonprofit.

And so he saw I started to incorporate storytelling elements into the program.

I was working with youth and so I was helping them really get grasp their own storytelling capabilities.

And I think he saw that and was like, it seems like you want to do this yourself.

Yeah.

I was like, I do.

I just don't know what, what to do.

And he was like, you should go to film school.

You should get your masters at USC and really understand how to make film.

And not only make film, but understand what your taste is and what stories you have to tell.

And I was like, well, you, J.J. abrams, tell me to go to film school.

I'm going to film school.

Um, you know, so I spent the next like year or two really crafting and understanding how to apply.

I applied, I didn't get in.

Then I applied again and I got in and so got into the Peter Stark producing program, which is a two year mfa that is really about learning how to produce, which is very important if you're going to be a television writer, which is what I wanted to do.

Um, and yeah, and I spent those two years really understanding what I had to offer as a storyteller and as a writer.

And then came out of the program, did a bunch of us.

I'm skipping a little couple of things, but I'm right in my mouth.

But I did a bunch of assistant jobs coming out of that program.

So.

And then from there I just kind of started staffing and staffing.

Until now I'm an executive producer on the Shy.

So that's what, that's how I got there.

Yeah.

And before we get on the Shy, which I really love, by the way, Talk about your first, like your first TV job.

What was that feeling like for you?

You know, driving into the.

Into the parking lot and also just that experience in general.

And how has that shaped who you are now as a writer?

Yeah, so my first ever job was a production assistant on Grace and Frankie.

And so that was just life changing.

Like, I had never really been on a set on a.

We had sets on stages.

You know, we were on the Paramount lot, We had lunch.

They were giving us lunch for free.

You know, like, I really.

I didn't experience all these things before, but I think my first feeling, the first instinct, instant that I knew that this is what I wanted to do was walking into the writer's room for the first time and just seeing.

Cause there's so much pressure when you write in features to get it all right alone because you write a movie by yourself mostly.

But I just kind of love the community of a writer's room and you can lean on people with different skills.

And I saw that every day in real time.

I saw like, oh, this person is the person who does the jokes.

Oh, this person is really good with this character, these characters dynamics.

And I started to just think, oh, okay, this is what I want to do.

I know what I love to do in story and I hope one day I get to find my way into this room.

So that was my.

The first time I, you know, was like, okay, this.

I'm so happy I'm here, you know.

Yeah.

But as someone who is now going from production assistant now to writer, how did that shift happen?

Because now you're not just an assistant now.

You're determining what is.

What the story is going to be.

You're determining what character development, what character arcs are going to be.

So how did I.

How was that shift like for you, basically?

Yeah, it was a lot of pressure and responsibility.

You know, I started to.

My first job was on a show called the Mysterious Benedict Society.

And I was already a huge fan of the books.

So it felt like this show is based on a series of novels.

They're young adult novels, but I had already read them all.

And so now there was all this pressure to feel like I had to get it right for all these fans and also to prove that I could be in a room and write and not.

It's not just a dream.

Like I didn't land here by happenstance or chance, you know, And I.

So I think those first couple weeks, I remember being so quiet.

I was so nervous to say the wrong thing.

I didn't really Know the politics of how a writer's room goes.

Should I speak before the executive producer speaks?

Do I let all the showrunners talk?

You know, when do I jump in?

And so I'm.

I've always been an observer, you know, I'd like to just know what the dynamic is before I get out there.

So I took the time to do that, and I started to understand how to pitch, you know, and so I was like, let me.

Let me set the bar not that high for myself so that, you know.

And so it just came.

It became about, can I pitch something good once every day?

I don't have to save the show or come up with this brilliant idea that's gonna, like, pay off in the finale, and everybody's gonna be so excited.

And I just want to speak once a day, pitch something that I feel good about and just put it out there and not look for validation on whether or not it was good.

Just, I felt it was good.

And if they like it or they don't, that is enough that I said something.

And so as I kind of began to flex that muscles, like, oh, my pictures are landing.

You know, they're responding to them.

So now I start.

I'm starting to feel like I can offer more.

But I think it was very important in the beginning to realize that as a staff writer, I'm not here to run the show.

You know, I'm here to support the vision of the showrunners, but also to learn, because I've never been here before.

Do you remember the first time you pitched an idea and they were like, sure, now this is gonna be the.

This is how we're gonna go for episode.

Blah, blah, blah.

How did you feel when that happened for you for the first time?

Yeah, I remember it very clearly.

Cause I kind of said it just offhandishly.

And everybody, the showrunners, got really excited.

You know, it was a very random thing involving a falcon.

It's elaborate.

All right.

I basically.

Because what I love about TV and characters, I love outsiders and the people who are not expected to be the leads or not expected to carry the story, really being front and center.

So there was a character who basically was kind of like a loser to the the side.

It's like a joke character.

I pitched this way that we could use him to drive story forward.

And everybody was like, oh, my God, that's so cool.

And it kind of let me know, like, I'm looking around the corners where nobody else is looking.

I think I found my superpower in the room, which is to continue to look beyond the lead characters, the main plot, like, what's hiding in the corners that we might be able to use to either amplify or tear down, you know, or reconstruct a story.

But, yeah, I felt really good, and it just let me know, you know, that I should speak more.

And I think from that room on, to really become confident in my ability to, you know, to steer the room in a direction that feels like we're going somewhere.

Good.

That's good.

That's good.

And from then till now, you've been writing, you've been recognized for your work.

How does that feel to.

When you're like, oh, here's an award.

You did a great job.

Or here's like, how does it feel to get all these accolades knowing that the work that you started doing is starting to pay off?

Yeah, I mean, it's exciting.

I think it's always nice to be rewarded.

It's always nice that your work impacts somebody.

I'm never really thinking about awards.

I think I'm more so just thinking about telling a good story that I would want to watch or that a young maybe I want to watch, or I write a stories.

I write a lot of stories about people I feel like have been left out of television, and specifically the people.

The people who raised me everyday.

Folks like my uncle, my aunt, my cousins, you know, so it.

The most rewarding thing is seeing people say, wow, that little thing that you put into this show made me feel so seen.

And that, to me, is more rewarding than any award, because I think that's why I got into this, was to feel like I could hold a mirror to people.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's cool.

I'm excited to talk about the shy because that's, like, my show.

Well, I'm.

I was in the writer's room, and I told them, I said, y', all, I gotta go.

I gotta go talk about the facade.

Because to be fair, if I'm being transparent, I didn't think I was gonna like the show when it started, not because of anything, but because it's just.

It started very.

I think the show builds.

Season one especially, you're watching it.

It's like every other thing.

By the time you get to the middle of the season, you realize that, okay, there's a story here.

And now I'm curious about how it's going, and you start to get invested in these characters.

And I feel like over the years that has happened with this show, and I really like the show also, like, how it normalizes the queer experience, in a way, I feel like with a lot of shows.

And I know.

I don't know if you can attest to this.

And queer representation is very important.

Right.

But also it's almost like an announcement like, oh, yes, my father is a queer person with his husband.

And then they have to go somewhere and they give a speech about, you know, marginalization, which is valid and needed, but sometimes it removes the humanity from the characters.

And so non queer folks cannot relate, I feel like.

And that's why you have this conversation around.

You're shoving it down our throats.

I think I'm going on a tangent, but you get what I mean.

But I think that the beauty about the Shy is the normalization of the characters.

This lady just happens to have a wife, you know, that's not the crux of the story.

You just live in this community and they're raising their children and they're going through their issues.

And I think I really love that.

So just my little spiel about the Shy and how I love the show.

Well, tell me, how did you find yourself?

How did you get on the Chi.

What was that experience like landing that.

That particular job and how has it been so far?

Yeah, yeah, I.

So after I wrote on the Mysterious Benedict Society, which was a Disney plus young adult fantasy series, it was like, okay, where do I go from here?

But I wrote on.

As you know, Lena White is a creator and executive producer of the Shy, but she has other projects through her Human Grab banner.

So before I wrote on the Shy, I wrote on another show that was a smaller show that was going to air on BET that never got made.

This happens a lot in Hollywood, as we know.

But it was one of the best shows that I ever had written on.

It was about Compton and it had a bit of magic in it.

And it was about teachers, and two of my siblings are teachers in Compton.

So I just felt like I had a wealth of truth to add to this show.

And I think I had such a good experience on that show and I think I wrote the hell out of my episode that I think they're just like, it just makes sense to move you over to the shot.

So I think I ended that show on a Friday.

I started on the Shy season four on a Monday.

So it was a very quick pivot.

But I think what I saw in the Shy that was true to all my work so far was they had young people in it.

It had young people who weren't talked down to who had real life experiences, you know, coming From Compton, I had seen things like a dead body or, you know, but also had ridden my bikes with my cousins and just had a fantastic day.

And it was the duality of being a child city.

There's all these lows.

You know, there's peaks, but there's valleys, too.

And I saw that with Evan, Jake, and Papa, especially within becoming young black men.

So that was my first draw into the show.

When I interviewed, I was talking a lot about how much I loved the way that those three boys are depicted and becoming men.

And then everybody else, I loved all the other nuance and craziness that was going on with the characters.

And so, yeah, I think what I loved the most was that most of the writers in the room, all the writers are black, which.

That was the first time I'd ever experienced that most of the writers were women, and it was just a safe space to just talk about anything that you had experienced.

You know, I think I'm not.

I'm not.

Obviously, I'm not from Chicago, but Chicago and Compton feel like sister cities in terms of some of the things I've experienced growing up like that.

It just felt like these characters live in a home away from home, and I know how to orient myself there.

And there is no need to explain who they are.

We just know them because we grew up around them.

And that was very easy to write to because I didn't have to do the work of saying, she talks like this because of X or, you know, he dates trans women because of such trauma.

It wasn't any of that.

It was just, he is.

And that made it easier to write because I didn't have to.

I didn't have to think about where they came from as much as I was thinking about where we get to go with them, because they're the moment.

And where they were going moving forward was much, much more important than flashbacks of trauma.

And, you know, it just was, this is who they are.

Let's see where we can take them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I feel like all the characters on the Chai, like, I kind of understand why they make the decisions they make from the villains to the.

And I still.

Most people are villains on that show.

Like, to everybody.

Like, you get where you're rooting for them all.

Like, every.

Every death, you know, hurts you in a way.

You're like, oh, damn.

But, yeah, it's a really good getting.

Messages about Rob every day.

Somebody's always messaging me about y'.

All.

I didn't have to do that.

And I'm like, Y' all didn't.

But y' all didn't have to do that, though.

Y'.

All.

They have to do that.

But, you know, I get it sometimes it moves the story forward.

You know, we need to move forward.

And, you know what's funny about that is that y' all didn't have to do that.

Sometimes in the writer's room, one of my bosses, Justin Hillian, we.

We.

Sometimes somebody will say something, and everybody.

We all have moved on from it, and Justin is like, y'.

All.

The reaction that y' all just had is exactly what we're going for.

I've never.

Anytime there's a strong reaction from something, we shouldn't run away from it, you know, and it may piss people off.

It may break hearts, you know, but we write to elicit real feeling, you know, and to show not human.

I mean, not heroes and villains, but humans.

And so that is.

That is how you feel.

Is how it is by design.

Yeah.

I feel like with season seven, and, you know, how we ended, obviously, with Lynn Riffel's character, you know, getting, you know, shot by Rosalind, and then, you know.

I can reveal a little shy Tea.

That.

That was my.

That was.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

That was you.

Yeah, you know, it was.

It was because, like, I really loved her character.

Like, I think that the show needed her character.

And, you know, Lilith would always.

In everything that she's in, she's an amazing actress, obviously.

So that was shocking.

And then you have.

What's.

What's their face?

Oh, my God.

I'm liking on their names.

But Luke James's character.

Oh, Trig.

And.

Oh, God, I'm blacking on the name.

So they go.

And they're moving the body.

Yeah.

You know, I shot.

Yeah.

And I'm like, bro, what is going on here?

But, yeah, that was a.

That was a good.

That was a good finale.

Hats off to y' all for that one.

But you got on the show as a writer, and now you're an executive.

So what is that trajectory, like for you, moving into a new season, which is like the final season now that y' all are working on?

How is that looking, like, from just being a staff writer now, to be one of the people who's calling the shots now in the room?

Yeah, it's a little surreal.

So for it to be five, really less than five years later, and to be an executive producer on the longest running black drama on Premium Table, you Know, on cable.

It's humbling, but it's exciting.

And I think the shift for me is being a writer is worrying about episodes, plot, story, character, arc, emotion, all of the fun stuff that I got into being a screenwriter for.

But being an executive producer is about that and everything else.

You know, it's about getting the show made and working with cast, working with music, working with production, working with wardrobe, costumes, locations, budget.

All of those things are now folded in.

And so it revolves.

Shapes how you think about writing because you start to learn things about, oh, we only have X amount of days to shoot.

Oh, we can only spend so many days off of our stages that we built.

So that changes how many scenes we can have on actual locations.

So.

Oh, we need to rewrite the scene so it lives here now.

Oh, we don't have that actor.

You know, that actor got Covid.

So we have to, like, so many things happen.

And now that's the difference as an executive producer, because as a writer, you're not privy to all of that.

You know, as a staff writer, I would write on the show.

When the time in the writers room was up, I was done.

And when the show aired, I was watching it just like y'.

All.

Yeah.

But as an executive producer, now I'm locked in, you know, with all of those steps to make sure that we're not going over budget.

You know, the story isn't compromised because of the budget, and we're giving the audience the show that they know and love at the price that the networking studio dictates.

You know, there's more constraints, but even the constraints are interesting because it's a new way to get creative.

You know, I still have to find a way to tell the story.

And I like that part.

I'm finding it challenging, but I do like that.

Okay, this is a new.

I couldn't just dream my wildest dream anymore.

Now I gotta bring it down, you know, and how can I still feeling that I was going after in the scene without having all the bells and whistles that I thought I was going to be able to afford?

Yeah.

And it's prepping you for when you have to go make your own show, you know?

Exactly.

Yeah.

You know, part that's.

That's the next step for me.

So.

Yeah, that's cool.

As you reflect on your work on the shy, as y' all step into creating this series finale, what would you say is your own personal reflection?

How would you look back over this time you spent working on this very iconic show?

And how would you Say it has changed your outlook on life and on your work in general.

Yeah.

I think if I were to look back on my time on the Chi, I would just be grateful.

I think I grew up as a writer on this show.

You know, having written three seasons and spent so much time with.

With Lena and with the other writers, I learned a lot about what's important to me.

You know what I feel like I must stand up sometimes as a writer.

You feel like, oh, I'm just being tossed around by the network or the studio or the showrunner.

But I found things that I care about, and I found the battles that I feel like I'm willing to put my foot down here, you know, and I'm not here to just execute a show that the network says or, you know, blindly march into somebody else's orders.

Like, I think I went from just being happy to be on the show to learning the skills to change the show.

And I'm grateful that this show was receptive of that.

A lot of showrunners would just say, no, be quiet, you know, But I think the room that we cultivated was always listening first, and then we could decide how we wanted to move forward.

So I'm.

Yeah, I'm just really grateful for that.

And I think one thing that the show has changed about my life personally and how I think about writing or storytelling is to live in the gray more.

I think so many of these characters are flawed, and they make mistakes, and they frustrate me.

You know, you.

You.

You write a scene and you're like, oh, why would.

Why would Tiff do that?

Like, why would you?

But it's just true.

People are like that.

People are a mystery even to the people that they know that know them the most.

And I think I was expect.

I wasn't expecting to learn that from a show like this to.

To live.

Leave more room for the gray and let the characters tell you who they are instead of trying to dictate where they should go.

And I think a lot of that has learned.

I've learned that from my relationships with the cast, who know these characters much more deeply than I do.

And, you know, with Lena, she created all these characters, and she.

You know, so she.

She knows them, and sometimes she'll say, nope, that's not what they would do.

You know, and you're like, you're right.

That is absolutely not what they would do.

I wanted to do it, but it's not what they would do.

Yeah, okay.

That's good.

Thank you for sharing that.

And obviously, you have like your own personal projects and your own personal dreams that you're working on.

Do you want to share some of the stuff that James Rogers III has under his belt?

Well, some of it I can't share, but, I mean, right now, really, I am knee deep in the final season of the Shy.

I think we just want to get it right, and so we are taking a little bit more time to make sure that happens.

We know that the only reason this show exists is because of people like you, the fans who kept it alive.

And so we are working overtime, working really hard, and I think I don't want to do anything but that right now.

You know, I have some projects of my own.

Like, I am excited and slowly chipping away at writing my first feature that I intend to direct.

And so a lot of that is.

Thank you.

Yeah, a lot of that is coming off of.

I recently directed my first short film that was.

It premiered at Tribeca.

It got nominated for an NAACP Award.

And I think I started to again, be like, oh, this is a new skill, new creative tool in my toolkit.

And I like directing.

That's coming up for me.

And I'm pitching shows.

You know, I think coming off the strike, it was tough to think that you could ever sell a show, especially a black show.

If the SHY has proven anything, it's that, you know, people want to watch black stories.

They want to watch me, Watts, real, relatable black stories.

So that's just what I plan to make.

And so I'm cranking away at a couple of those.

So let's.

I'm excited for the day where they are reality.

Yeah, that's really cool.

Can you talk about your short film for a bit?

What was the inspiration behind that project?

And how did you feel having your first short film that you directed have all these accolades and these screenings and, like, major festivals like Tribeca?

Yeah, I mean, I think the film was a reaction.

I wrote it in the pandemic, at the peak of the pandemic, when I just felt like I was watching people who I know and love compromise their dream to be stable or to, you know, be still.

And I just needed an outlet to put that in.

And so I kind of married some of the experiences that my friends had told me about with my own experience of just feeling like, oh, as a young, gay black boy, I couldn't really be myself because there were things expected of me.

And so the question that I asked myself when I came up with the concept was, what would happen if I went back in time and had this knowledge that I have now, you know, would I do it all the same?

Would things play out differently?

Who would I become if I could liberate the little boy in me of the.

The pain he was holding on to?

That's real.

And what was so interesting is that after a screen at Tribeca, there were so many people who were not little gay black men.

There was this, like, white lesbian woman who came up to me bawling in tears, and she was like, this experience is nothing like my own, but you don't know how much I relate.

Like, and I was just like, that's like, really?

When you feel like.

Because the story is so specific, it's literally about, you know, this black man who feels like he can't be himself because of his father.

And so when you can transcend the confines of that and are like, okay, this specific story has become universal because this random person who is, like, not affiliated with it all is telling me they're in tears.

That, to me, is the most rewarding thing because it means that I found a way to connect and push through what Hollywood says is, you know, Hollywood often says black stories are too specific.

No one's going to watch, you know, and so when you can prove that wrong, that is really, really.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

And is it available to watch right now?

Yes, yes, it's available.

You can watch it on Hulu, actually, if you look up Rising Voices, that is the program through which the film was made on Hulu.

Search Rising Voices.

And then in season three of Rising Voices, you will see a film called Rocky road on Channel 3, directed by me, James Rogers III.

But you should watch them all.

My whole cohorts, all 10 films that were selected for that season were fantastic.

That's pretty cool.

Thank you for sharing that.

I would put that in the description so folks can have quick access to season and to watch it.

And obviously that.

And I think that that's the beauty about great work, is that it's very universal, no matter how specific it is.

I grew up in Lagos, Nigeria.

Not even in the U.S. you know, but I can relate to the Shy, for example, or many other black shows that are being made insecure, all these great stories because our stories are universal.

Like you just shared earlier on.

What would you say is your.

I don't want to say advice, because it might sound like I'm putting a lot of pressure on you, but there are a lot of young filmmakers, especially young filmmakers who are, like, black and queer, who might want to make film or write A write a TV show or a film, but feel like maybe their ideas might be between niche or they feel like there's no space for them in Hollywood as of now or in the film industry in general.

What would you say to folks like that who are in that great.

In that gray area?

Like you said, I try to figure their way out.

Yeah, I would say it's not too niche.

You know, I think you got.

If you become a storyteller, it's because you have something special and unique to offer.

And don't lose that.

Continue to double down into how unique, weird left of center your ideas are.

Maybe I would say learn story structure.

Of course, I think that is where sometimes the disconnect is.

It's like, okay, this story is really, really unique and interesting, but I don't think it's a TV show or I don't think you found a way to create a story engine that is a well we can pull from over and over.

And that has only learned from watching a lot of television, reading a lot of scripts, watching and learning the greats and understanding.

You know, I think I spent.

Before I wrote anything, I spent a lot of time watching my favorite pilots.

So I could understand how does this first episode of a show set up the entire series and let us know that we're going to watch this for many seasons to come?

And so shows like Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, Avatar, the Last, Airbender, what else?

Soul Food, Heroes, Dexter.

Like, I watched one of those shows to really see because those are just the ones that I like that I, you know, connected with.

But I would just sit down and study them and say, okay, I see the engine of this stuff, this show.

He's gonna kill somebody.

Every episode, you know, like, or whatever it may be for the shy, you know, a huge inciting incident and how it has ripple effects across an entire very complex web of people in Chicago, you know.

So I think spend a little bit of time understanding the structure if you're interested in TV in particular, but find a way through your unique lens to make that structure feel like something we haven't seen before.

So I know that feels difficult, but for me, I always leaned into the things that make me me.

So I've talked a lot about me going to college with my dad.

I have a pilot that I wrote about that because nobody else is going to be able to write that better than me, you know, Or I have another unique experience of I came out on this, I tried to come out to my parents, and on the same day, my Younger brother came out before me.

You know, there's just things that I think that you should reflect on your life since.

Spend some time just thinking about what are the things that nobody could ever take away from me that are so unique to me that through their uniqueness, we'll find the specific.

You know, we'll find those universal elements of it.

But I would just start with, what are those, like, undeniable things about you that you feel you have to offer?

And then find a way to construct a structure around it that is easy to find because there's a lot of resources on how to write and how to write well.

But the more challenging part is finding what's the thing that you have to say that you feel perhaps hasn't been said a million times before.

Yeah.

And as I was listening to you, something came to my mind, and I want to ask you, because you said it, and you may have touched on it a little bit, but you said, what is it that nobody can take away from you?

And so I'm asking you, what is it that nobody can take away from you?

As a writer, filmmaker, also as a young black gay man existing in today's America, what are some things that, you know, you're.

You hold on close to you that nobody can take away from you?

Yeah, I think for me, it's always been no one can take away from me that I'm always going to be outside of the box.

You know, I think I'm on.

I always surprise people, you know, I think they always expect one thing for me, and then it's like, oh, you are a competitive Pokemon player.

I would have never expected that.

Oh, you do.

I always have a part of me that is unexpected because I just lead with being true to what I love.

And so I think that has gotten me in a lot of rooms, that's created a lot of opportunities for me, but I don't even really care about that.

I just like going to bed at night knowing that I did all the things that I loved and I either was challenged by them, I had fun doing them.

You know, I discovered new things about me through them.

But, yeah, yeah, I think I defy a lot of expectations.

I beat a lot of odds.

I don't.

I'm not what people expect.

And that makes me very well equipped to tell stories about outsiders, about people who have been misrepresented or not represented at all, because people always assume about you.

And I love to prove people wrong.

And so a lot of my characters are about people who prove people wrong.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

And I saw that you.

I saw that on Instagram that you ran to a Pokemon tournament.

How did that go?

You know, a one half of the games lost the other half, but it was my first time ever.

I'm a longtime Pokemon fan.

I've been playing since I had a Game Boy, but again, I wanted to make sure I was.

This is something that I love.

So why wouldn't I travel and try to compete and do the, you know, do this thing that I've been good at for so long?

Not because I'm going to win money or get fame, like nobody's going to care, but it makes me happy.

And so even in my losses, which there were many.

Yeah.

You seemed excited, so you seemed like you were really having a good time.

So that's what.

Yeah, it's just no joke, as you can see from my laptop right here, you know.

Okay, that's cool.

My Pokemon knowledge is very limited to when I was, like, young and I the very first Gotta Catch Them all theme song with Pikachu.

And everybody does.

That's the only Pikachu that's good.

Enough about.

That's the basics.

That's all I know.

But, yeah, I have some rapid fire questions before I let you go.

Just a little bit.

A little something to let folks know more about you.

What are the top three songs on your playlist right now?

Folded by Kehlani.

Okay.

In My Room by Julia Wolf.

It's like a very strange cousin's inspired emo punk song.

And then what's the name of that song?

But it goes all the non blacks to the bat, I think.

I don't know the name song.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Wake up and I listen to that song.

It's like, let me start it off, you know?

That's a good one.

What is your favorite TV show to binge?

Ooh, it's probably Six Feet under, which sounds a little bit rough, but I love that show.

Yeah, it's kind of in my Rushmore.

Okay, what is your most Rushmore shows since we're here?

Six Feet Under, Avatar the Last, Airbender, the Wire, and Breaking Bad.

Okay.

Okay, cool.

Which is most.

It's just mostly HBO shows, but they make good shows.

Shout out to them.

Avatar Last Airbender or Legend of Korra.

Avatar the Last Air.

Okay, cool, cool.

Shout out to that.

Who is your dream collaborator?

Someone that you have to collaborate with.

I am a huge fan of J.J. abrams, so it only felt like destiny that we would connect in that way.

But I love his work and he's close with Damon Lindelof, who was one of my favorite writers who wrote Lost, the Leftovers, another one of my.

Such a fantastic show.

He also wrote Watchmen, which.

With Regina King, which was mind blowing.

So, yeah, I'd love to work with him or them.

Okay, cool.

If you're alive or a TV show, what genre will it be?

It will be a mockumentary.

Okay, cool.

Okay, cool.

I love that.

Actually.

It means that your life is exciting.

So unfortunately.

Shout out.

Shout out to that.

Where is your favorite place to ride?

I like to write right here at my desk.

I'm not a big.

I can't go to the coffee shops.

I get distracted.

So I like to be able to grab everything I need, whether that be a snack, a pen, you know, an inhaler, a prayer.

I like it.

All right here.

Okay, cool.

Shout out to that.

And finally, what is your guilty pleasure?

Wingstop.

Okay.

Okay.

I realized though that you have to know the Wingstop that has like a good wings.

I'm learning.

Yeah, yeah.

I've been off because I just moved and the wing stop near me.

They don't know what they're doing.

So you have to travel to get good Wingstop.

And so.

But today was a very long day in the room and I said, I have earned this Wingstop.

That's real.

That's real.

I think before I let you go, finally, I'm curious to know what is your hope for, like, black representation when it comes to TV and film and how do you want to help make those hope or make your hopes or your dreams for the industry come to pass?

Yeah, I think my hope for black representation in film and television is that it just continues to get more specific, get more honest and further investigates black humanity.

I think a lot of times we're just kind of skimmed over as cool, fun, hit or struggling, desperate, you know, trauma based.

But I think I hope that we continue to show blackness in all of its extremities and normalcies.

And that's my plan.

You know, I think I came out of film school really getting, after watching a lot of film, understanding that my specific place is not to talk about black.

The extremely black wealthy people or the extremely black impoverished people, but the like, swath of people who are in the middle, the people that raised me, the, you know, the everyday folk.

And I think there's something magical about everyday black folks.

And so my goal and dream is to continue to explore that magic.

And sometimes with a little bit of actual magic, I'm a big fantasy guy.

And So I hope to show us in those spaces that we've yet to occupy.

You know, like, why can't we have our show that has, like a hint of magical realism?

Why can't we even go bigger and be the main characters in House of the Dragon and not the side family, you know?

Yeah, I've yet to kind of really sink my teeth into that.

I've spent a lot of time on shows like the Shy, which are so great about showing us our humanity and truth in the world as it is.

But I want to continue to dream outside of what is true and see where we can imagine us in places that they haven't even allowed us in yet.

That's real.

Well, thank you, James, for coming on and for letting us through your journey and for just sharing some of your wisdom.

Really appreciate it.

For folks who are curious about James, I will share links to his Instagram and his work so you can check it out and engage as much as you can.

And if you've been watching, thank you for watching and for listening so far.

Really appreciate the support and all the love.

Thank you, James.

Again, I'll be sure to connect with you for sure.

Appreciate you coming on, of course.

Thank you so much for having me.

This was really, really great.

I'm glad you liked it.

And yeah, till next time, odej.