Full show notes for this episode can be found at https://podcast.jakehower.com/episode/how-providing-world-class-customer-support-can-make-your-business-more-profitable-with-james-schramko

This is episode 20 of the Multimedia Marketing Show.

Righto, in this episode, we're bringing on someone who has been

spoken about in numerous episodes by both our guests and also myself.

That is none other than Mr.

James Schramko from Superfast Business.

Now James has in the past run a hundred million dollar companies in Mercedes

dealerships in Sydney, Australia.

But he's gone on to build a super successful online business being super

fast business, where he provides a number of different services around

traffic generation and retention.

And then on the other side of the coin, he also runs some training forums,

including fast web formula and silver circle, which is a business I guess you

could say a business mindset mastermind.

James employs about 80 people in the Philippines has a

multimillion dollar annual income.

Purely from online business and servicing the needs of his customers.

Now, what we're bringing James on today is not to speak particularly about

multimedia marketing strategies, more about customer engagement and retention

strategies, which I believe is a very.

Key point to serving your customers well, so we will go into depth in this episode

about how you should be treating your customers, how you can rise above the pack

by providing amazing support, both before a sale is transacted and then throughout

the entire lifetime as a customer.

So let's get stuck straight into that episode right now.

James, how are you?

Good.

Thanks.

How

you going,

Jack?

Really well, actually.

And I'm actually, I'm very glad to get you on the show for a proper episode.

We got you on for an impromptu episode in episode 4.

5 to debate the different forms of content marketing with Dan Andrews and

Dan Norris, and that was fantastic, but it's time to get you on and

actually delve into some really good insights around obtaining customers.

And then of course, keeping them.

Yeah you're the only guy I know who's got episodes with 0.

5 in them.

Is that like it was only half as good or something?

Yeah, I don't

know.

It was it was certainly very much as impromptu and it was I guess a little

bit outside of the normal schedule.

So I didn't want to make it five.

So 0.

5 is the way to go, I think.

I'm pleased to have the limelight all to myself

without having to fight this time

interestingly enough you were probably one of the first

people I booked in an episode with bats as I said at the time I wanted

to get a few episodes under my belt so I could do this episode justice.

And how's the show going for you?

It is

going fantastically well.

Our listeners are really enjoying it.

All the guests have been able to pull in different insights.

And certainly I know personally, I've been able to apply a lot of the

strategies taught my own businesses.

And I get the feedback from listeners out there that they are able to do the same.

I think what you do so well is you take concepts from

different places, you apply them, roll up the sleeves and do it,

and then you share your results.

I think you're a natural at this.

I love seeing how successful you've become in such a short time.

And I imagine this will be a super famous podcast in a year from

now.

Here's hoping, I guess all we can really do behind the mic is to

provide value for our listeners and it's the listeners who will be able

to, decide where the show goes.

So that's a, that's fantastic.

Now, what I'd love to speak to you about today, you're obviously

a business growth expert.

And while the premise of the show is content marketing and using the different

forms to bring in leads and customers, what I truly think is very important

with this is focusing a little bit more on the mindset and then utilizing.

Content marketing, but then also strategies that you can help to, maximize

the value of the content marketing in the first place to obtain and retain

customers, which you do extremely

well.

That's a handful.

I'll see what we can come up with.

So for those listeners out there who may not have come

across your three podcasts already, do you want to give them just a

brief background of who you are and

what you do?

Sure.

I think there's actually four podcasts for everyone on the call, including Jake.

Seriously though, I've got this business called superfastbusiness.

com and the main specialty is in working with.

Internet business related matters so i have a internet business coaching forum

called fast web formula where people can congregate with others i've got a

high level business mastermind which is really good for six figure businesses

who want to take it to seven and that's a smaller group but really focused on their

business and a lot more access to me and that's the business coaching side of.

The business and then there's services on the other side where we do WordPress

website development and traffic SEO related services to help promote those

websites that's pretty much a three pronged business now but it used to

be a lot broader than that and as I continue on I keep refining and

streamlining and focusing on the areas that are the real sweet spots for me

and the best thing about the way that set up is that I have pretty much the

same customer in each of those three corners and that works really well.

Yeah, you've as you say, keep refining it, but I guess there

are a couple of common themes which run through your entire businesses.

And I guess you're really fantastic at the strategy side of business.

But also, as you say, you're able to promote products and services, which your

customers naturally progress through.

Yeah, everything I've got is based around what

people have asked me for.

So it's really solutions based.

It's James.

Could you have a look at this or help us with that?

Or do you know, blah, blah, blah.

And by only working with customer solutions that people actually

want, it's been helpful for us to get up and running quickly.

We're not, I'm not classified as a startup in a weird and wonderful

market that doesn't exist before.

And I'm sure it's great for people to do that and they can

own their whole market if, okay.

It didn't exist before.

However, I'm just working with really established market.

Business growth has probably been around for hundreds and hundreds

of years, maybe thousands.

I'm not sure, but websites have been around for at least what, two

decades now and traffic and SEO people are always going to want

more customers for their business.

So they're just fundamental needs and I've worked in that

space and the best thing is that.

I have this call customer philosophy this really is one customer of this

business who could potentially experience each part of the business and i took

this idea from my old job which was running mercedes benz dealerships and.

I realized that there we just have one customer but the managers used to fight

over the customers if it was their customer and i'm like hang on your

service customer bought their car from our sales team and they financed it from

our finance department and when they need to change the spark plugs they buy the

spark plugs from our parts department we have the same customer so i actually

called it one customer and i presented this thing to a was a business development

thing for teaching people how to be general managers and i presented this.

Presentation called one customer and was this idea that the customer is actually

in the middle and we should work together to communicate effectively with that

customer to take a lifetime approach to that customer and if we never abuse that

customer they will stay with the business.

Forever and that we don't give me a reason to go somewhere else and we can all

share that customer and that's developed into my concept of the chocolate wheel

it doesn't matter where someone comes into the business but i can work their

way right around the whole business units and that still the same customer

so when i draw a map of my business.

It's a big circle, like a target, the customers in the middle, and then the

pieces of the pie around that are the various business units from the business.

And then the outside of circle is your customer attraction.

You're prospecting things like podcasts and sales pages, lead pages, blog

content, Facebook posts, YouTube videos.

Those things bring the customers in and they turn into a customer and they

go straight into the center where they get royal treatment and loving care.

Yeah, absolutely.

Now, I think just to give a little bit of extra context for

our listeners, for this particular conversation, how many customers do you

have that you personally have contact

with?

In my office autopilot account, I have about 23, 000 records and.

A good chunk of those people have bought something at some point and i have a

high transaction value per customer and a pretty small list size compared

to your classic internet marketers but each customer for me is a recurring

customer and they stick with me for a long time i've got some people i've had

for six years so it just grows at about.

It grows at around about 60 to 70 people per day at the moment.

So it's not a huge influx, but they stick.

Yeah.

Okay.

So

why do they stick?

Oh I've got a few golden rules.

For example, if I ever send something to a customer by email, they must

be better off for opening the email.

So it's not a take it's a give it might be a give with a request or call to action

but they have to be better off so if I don't break that rule it doesn't matter

the frequency I could send them something every day I could send them something

once a week once a month it doesn't matter because they're better off opening it

because I'm always stepping inside their shoes and thinking how can I help them

and another secret to it is to be relevant and to be contextual so those are the two.

Thank you.

Big words, context and relevancy of what it's all about and when you

recognize how important that is about having the right conversation with

the right person at the right time, that's when systems like infusion soft

or office autopilot become a really powerful weapon in your online marketing

business compared to the classical sort of one bucket for everything type.

Systems like a Weber or whatever, where you tend to just be broadcasting or heaven

forbid blasting your list which have words that I just banned from our team.

So we now segment and do things such as lead scoring and attribute of value to

each customer so that we can categorize them correctly and group them and

now just communicate to that group.

So someone who buys a website will get a website.

Communication someone who is in a coaching community will get a coaching community

news update and they're having the right conversation with me yeah that's

fantastic and I guess you could almost say what you're

doing is you're expecting your customers because you're giving them

information that they want I guess what.

These systems allow you to do is that they're allowing you to leverage the

communications you would only be able to have on a one on one basis by segmenting

them further than what the, something like an Aweber or a MailChimp allows you to do.

And that's, a really fantastic way to really power up your content

marketing.

And there's some tweaks you can do to this that just boost it that

nobody does that make you stand out.

And I think that really has been the Holy Grail for me is to, if someone,

I get emails like this, right?

Hi, James, just wanted to find out.

Have you taken me off your list because I didn't get an email last few days and

I only receive emails from my family friends and you and no one else and

like for me that's wow I've made it to the inbox where people want to open

the email and there's things you can do to cause that to happen and I could

go through a couple if you like please yeah so one of the most important ones

that I've done is I send emails from my own email address and I put a note

at the bottom of my email that I reply to emails I personally reply to emails.

And I've been doing this for a long time and it's quite uncommon in business most

people send an email from a no reply at which I likened to saying I don't give

a shit about you this I'm going to push this communication to you but God if you

want to talk to us forget it we're not interested we're just here to sell you

something and then if you want to speak to some of these companies, you have

to jump through 10 hoops to go to their support desk, to go through a little

problem solver to find out, have you already answered in the knowledge base?

Like it's too hard.

It's much easier for somebody to hit email.

And I figure out why wouldn't I want a prospect or a customer to be

able to hit reply and ask me another question that helps me solve their

problem that will lead to a sale.

Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

I think a lot of people see systems and automation as the holy grail failing

to realize that the idea of systems and automation is to give you back time.

And when you've got that time, I guess you've got the time to be speaking with

your customers and answering emails.

There's a few things there.

I learned for some, from really wealthy, smart people a real estate agent.

I remember clearly when mobile phones were new, I was just a kid.

We were driving along and his phone rang and he's talking to a customer.

And at the time I was in debt collection, I was about 18, I was a debt collector.

And my experience was that people did not want to answer the phone.

Don't want to hear from people.

Funny that when you're asking for payments, but I said to

Matt, why are you so accessible?

How come you don't have a secretary screening that stuff?

All my customers.

And he said, I want people to ring me because they want to buy something.

They want to, they've got a question.

If I can solve it, they'll make a purchase and it could be worth 20, 000 to me.

And another thing that one of my mentors taught me was.

Not to process people hate being processed you know here's your ticket

number or whatever it's like when you go to mcdonalds these days in

australia and i have to specify that because i went to mcdonalds in france

they actually had an ATM system like you push on the screen you choose your

meal on the screen and then you go and pick up your order was completely

hands off no human involved and.

But in Australia, you go and order from the thing, as soon as they've got your

order and taking your money, they just turn their back on you and walk off.

It's like you are dumped, dropped, forgotten about and processed.

And then you have to somehow figure out that you're supposed to shuffle

down to the next counter and wait for your order to be assembled.

But as soon as they've got your money, you're out of there.

And you don't feel very special about it.

There's no personality involved in that.

So people do not like to be processed.

So if you're using automation, be mindful that if people feel processed,

you're going to depersonalize it.

Now, when you say PS, I applied to my emails personally and they can hit reply

and they ask you a question and you actually reply back with their name.

How good is that compared to everyone else out there already?

And that's aside from the fact that I've got other things like, Okay.

Helping them select the frequency they'd like their email so it's such a simple

obvious thing to do but it's hey would you rather receive a weekly update instead

they can click on that and be moved automatically through automation to a

weekly list and now they can hear from me weekly so instead of having to leave my

list they can just dial down the intensity so that's a little safety net technique.

And then the other things you can do to really show people that you

care is you can use a real name.

You can put your picture on the support desk.

You can list your phone number and your address and you can put a

phone number for people that they can call you in their own country.

That is.

Going to cost them the minimum possible.

Yeah.

So let's give it again.

Let's give listeners a bit of perspective again.

So you're doing multiple millions.

You've got 80 employees.

You've got so many different customers.

You display your phone number in clear daylight on all your websites.

How many calls a day do you get from customers?

I would probably average one or two calls a day and

I've got customers in every country.

So sometimes it'll fly through to voicemail.

But if I'm awake and it rings, I'll answer it.

And I can tell you the closing rate on a sales inquiry is a hundred percent

because they're hovering on your site.

They're looking at a package that might cost a thousand dollars and they're saying

listen i just have a couple of questions and you say sure and they ask the

questions you answer it and they say great i'm ordering it now so it really it's

a high paid thing to do and it's also.

When you're dealing online, trust is such a huge factor.

And if they feel like they're not going to get ripped off, then they'll proceed.

And I suspect for the few calls that I get, there's probably a lot of people who

see the number and feel more confident about it just because it's there because

it's so easy for people to contact us.

And we also have a leave a message tab where they can click a support ticket.

They don't have to put in anything other than like their email address is not like

twenty seven fields we don't run them through a knowledge base like they can

ask us anything we get out we get a lot of tickets every day we get dozens of tickets

every day and i have full time support team who answered tickets every day and

they quite often will lead to sales.

That's really interesting.

So we're combining these fantastic techniques by segmenting your

client base so that they're getting relevant information with being

super open about contacting you.

And as you say, I'm sure many people will visit the site, see the number

there and out of respect for the fact that you're respecting them, they're

not going to call you unless they really

need to.

And if they do really need to, then you've got a high chance of making

a sale where it may not have been

possible.

And then also on the flip side of fixing up a potential issue or problem.

Yeah.

And the stats that I get in my business are just, when other people see

them, they just can't comprehend it.

For example, my returning customer percentage is 91 and a half percent.

That means that I'm growing my business probably about 10% continually, but

people just keep ordering and ordering and the average value is very high.

It's yeah, really high

actually.

Yeah.

I guess you play a pretty big role or a central role in most

of your marketing strategies.

Do you see that as important for our listeners to do

something similar?

Yeah, I think there's two main roles you want to do in your business, and that

is to be the marketing strategy chief and to control the costs, control the

checkbook, don't give away the checkbook and don't hand over your marketing mission

because no one's going to drive your business with the same passion as you,

no one knows what you like or don't like, or your philosophies as well as you do.

So even if you have people help you implement it as both of us do, we

have teams surrounding us that can it.

Translate our vision both of us are creating the original content because it's

highly personal and no one else in the world can be james shram co i mean that

technically there are three of us from facebook but you know what i'm saying in

my capacity as the driver of my business if i can step up to the plate and make

videos and audios it's highly personal.

If I care enough about someone to respond to inquiries and to be approachable,

that is a big differentiator from your average marketing person.

And I remember some saying about my grandfather used to give me, it's like

to be able to walk amongst the common man and and not lose touch or something.

It's about being able to walk with Kings or walk amongst the common men.

If you can slide up and down the social spectrum and be able to talk to anybody.

Without being an asshole or being over the top or special or arrogant

or whatever, then you'll be really going well in your business.

If you're a good communicator and you genuinely care.

In fact, one boss once told me I care too much, but I would argue that yes, it does

burden you with a little bit of stress.

If you care so much that you.

That it's bothering you, but you really should care about the customer

and stop focusing about paying off your mortgage or your credit card

because the customer does not care.

That is not their motivation for buying from you because you've got a debt burden.

They're buying from you because of their problem that you can solve.

So if you just obsessively focus on customer problems and customer

challenges and solve that, the rest will take care of itself.

And as Peter Drucker said, the only purpose of a business is to you.

Attract and then retain a customer and that's what i focus on attract

the customers and then i retain the customers and it's just so much easier

to keep existing customers and just to develop that relationship and one

of the commitments i made several years ago strategically was i got this

crossroads do i stay where i'm at.

And let the customer move past me or do i step up and grow with the customer and

i've ended up creating things like my silver circle mastermind where i can grow

with the customer all the way to the top of their limit and now i can have someone

started entry point go right through to the top end and that's giving me.

Amazing bandwidth to stick with that customer and then if i could solve

their biggest challenges like a website and their traffic that really need to

look outside for those call things.

Yeah that's incredibly interesting.

I love it.

Okay, James, a couple of episodes we had Pat Flynn on and going through our

conversation, he spoke about something which you speak about yourself and it's

being interested versus being interesting.

How does this play out in your business and in your dealings with your customers?

I see a lot of, gurus or experts trying to in Australia is

the phrase wank off a bit, but they're trying to make themselves special and

use all this, just really basic Goal oriented aspirational marketing, the

scene of them driving along or whatever.

And I think that's very effective for them, but it's not really that genuine.

What they really should be focusing on is being more interested in their customers

and just getting down to how they can actually solve problems and rather than

be a circus pony or a feature star actor.

So I think if you.

Care enough about your customers to actually want the feedback from them

and to ask them if they want anything to let you know then to just push market

to them so in the old days people just sending emails put it pushing out their

messages with aggressive marketing making people jump through countdown banners.

Exit squeezes all this sort of stuff they were being very forceful marketers

and they were trying to razzle and dazzle them but i think that wears off

and i think for the long haul it's far better just to be genuinely interested

in your customers solve those problems communicate them without being a dick and.

Be there for them for the long haul.

I'll still be around when most of these people have fallen off

the edge as they tend to do.

And I've seen it happen.

Some of them have lists of 500, 000 emails and they can't

get a fraction of it to open.

Just the tiniest little percentage will even open the email because

they've just been worn out and overrun.

They're just no longer interested because being interesting is.

Find in the beginning but it doesn't last that's

really interesting the concept of that and you can see it play out in

many different areas I guess if you're being interesting and it wears out then

all you're trying to then do is to drive traffic to your interesting thing or as if

you're being interested in your customers you're likely to keep them for a longer

period and not have to worry about or worry so much about driving new customers

or new traffic to what you're doing.

It helps people

feel better i mean if you go back to the beginning of this

podcast unless you edit it out to make me look silly i asked you how your

podcast is going even though you're interviewing me today because i'm

actually genuinely interested and.

I admire the growth and challenges you've overcome to get this thing going from no i

think from memory you used to start a lot.

And for a lot of people that would just stop them in their tracks and

they would think I'm not definitely not suited for podcasting and you just

whatever, I'm just going to get out there and do it and you've grown this

thing and you're taking sales from the related products that you offer.

So I think being curious is a fantastic skill in business.

And in fact, there's someone on my payroll who I pay to do two things only.

She prepares numbers every day for me in it for my dashboard

and she gets paid to be curious.

That is it and her job is to poke around the business to all the different

departments looking to help desk speak to the managers speak to the link builders

speak to the web developers and just be curious what are you doing how's it going

what do you think we could do a better job with this what is the most difficult

customer we have right now which parts of the job do you love is there something

else in the company you like to do.

If she's just curious and interested in our team, and that flows through to

our customers, cause they feel that the work that we're doing is impassioned

and high quality and good stuff.

People will stick around.

Yeah, absolutely.

Now, have you given her a title yet?

Oh, technically she's just number one.

So she was the first one I hired.

She's still the big boss.

So we're, we just call her number one.

I was just thinking you'd probably look at something like chief

interesting officer or chief curious

officer could, but it's, I find all that a bit cliched.

And the funny thing is, like, when I became a general manager, I got given

business cards and I don't think I used more than about five of them in four and

a half years and my last job, I don't really need that sort of status and,

and labels for stuff like I'm like screw that, just be yourself, whatever that is.

I don't have a title for myself.

I don't have business cards per se.

So I think actually labeling things or titling things can be dangerous because

it might restrict somebody's ability to.

To go beyond that scope and one of the greatest techniques we have in our

business and also when we're applying this to customers is to not limit ourselves

to the traditional standard partitions and labels that people want and we

don't really strive to be normal or like everyone else so yeah we don't have

mantras and stuff and vision statements and all of this stuff really if we were

to go to if we're going to put it down to a word or two words we have a lifetime

customer focus that is what our business.

Does because we recognize it's way easier it's a lot more enjoyable it's

extremely profitable and like we don't have to wonder about what we should do the

customers tell us because we asked them and they tell us and then we say thank

you so even with the on the race course strategy that i deploy it's so driven by.

Customer comments and emails like the classic episode where i gave people a

sort of a studio tour of my gear and that guy said hey you know you should stop

wearing cheap t shirts and you should shave and then i put out a response video

should i shave and that had over three hundred comments and it just polarized

my audience like we don't care what you wear james you're awesome or you know

when i first saw you i thought you're a bit scruffy but now i know your materials

good as soon as you open your mouth so i stuck with you so recognize that.

If i just shave more often and maybe wear a polo shirt i'm gonna get a

broader audience so it's customer driven i wear the polo shirt and i'll

shave for the customer not for me but it's not too much of a compromise out

of my standard i'm gonna put a t shirt on anyway does it matter to me if

it's got a little color and a button.

Not really.

It's fun.

And sometimes I just stir people up too.

I wore a pink one to take the piss out of them and turns out they loved it as well.

So I've got a pink and a purple polo shirt and it's customer led it's customer

driven and I'm doing it because I respect them and I can be a little less selfish

if it helps them receive my content and help them with their business.

Yeah.

That's excellent.

I like the purple

Polo as well.

You like the purple one?

I like the aqua and the blue and the gray.

I like the gray one.

That's more my speed and the Ferrari one's good if I really

want to grab people's attention because I'm leveraging a big brand.

All right, James, so let's give our listeners some key takeaways.

Now how can they implement some of the strategies we've talked

about in this episode in their own content marketing efforts?

Okay so the first thing is how easy or difficult is it for your

customers to contact you do you have a system or a way that is obvious for

them that they could get a hold of you to let you know your websites down or to

let you know that they would have bought this if you just change that or do you

have such and such so make it easy for people to contact you even if you have

a support team I mean in my business I'm the only one who does phone support.

There's no one else in my business stay or they're all text based support and

that's for a specific reason it's just way better second action step would

be what percentage of your customers are coming back and buying again do

you have recurring products because you can put a much heavier investment

in finding those customers and really looking after them if they are rewarding

if your average customer value is twelve or fifteen hundred dollars.

Then you're not going to be a tight ass when it comes to giving them good content

because you're getting paid well for it.

And if you do have a team, just have a talk to the team about what

it means to work in your business.

So we have a values based business.

And for us, communication is definitely one of our core values.

And that means that.

We communicate with our customers very effectively like rapid response

times and elevating something to the person that can solve the person's

problem as quickly as possible.

So if it happens to be me, they will find me and draw me to the

ticket where I can solve it.

So just have this approach where you actually focus your efforts around

solving customers challenges rather than your own personal financial

needs and the rest will flow.

Yeah, that's awesome.

I guess I can see that a common chain or a common resistance to doing

this is that well, I'm too busy.

I'm doing too much already.

I don't I can't I don't have the time to be looking after my customers.

And I think really, you're then one focus right now is to build a system

or a team to give you that freedom of time to be able to provide this sort of

support.

There's nothing more important than the customers.

I have a internet business coaching community and I log in every day.

And I've consistently logged in every day, even to the prior one for about five years

now and done something like 16, 000 posts.

I think in the two combined, you can't get that in many places.

I don't know anywhere where you can go and be in contact with someone.

Every day if you need to be consistently for five years, not many

people are prepared to roll up the sleeves and put in the sweat equity.

Now I've set the framework around my frequency schedule and what I'm able

to commit to and it works out great.

So there will actually be some effort involved.

Sorry to alert people to that.

You might have to talk to someone.

You might have to handle a hot call every now and then we still get some crazy

people come into the business, but to give it the right context, I was born

to do this in my career, having been a debt collector, having phoned up people

and ask them for money on the phone, I realized something really important.

And I'll share this with.

The customer cannot punch you in the face over the phone.

Okay, so there's no need to be scared of the telephone.

If you have a resistance to speaking to people on the phone or communicating

with them, just remember they can't punch you in the face over the phone.

And that helped me a lot with my debt collection.

And it's probably, I doubt people have ever heard that quote before, but once you

realize that it's, you're just so unlikely to die as a result of a phone call.

That you know just stop being scared of it and reach out to people in fact a great

experiment for your listeners would be to change their signature line in their

email today and put a little PS and say PS i reply to emails personally and just see

what happens to your business because you will get the best research data you can

possibly get you will sell more stuff you will get to know your customers better.

You'll separate yourself from all of the faceless marketers who don't

really care about their customers.

Yeah, that's tremendous, James.

I guess you've peeled some of the layers back behind how you do it and

you're bringing millions of dollars.

So our listeners should take note of a lot of that and see where they can

implement it in their own business.

Where can our listeners find out more about

you, James?

Superfastbusiness.

com is where you'll see all of this in play.

Yeah, absolutely.

And if you are struggling with time and you need to implement systems,

I also recommend heading across to FastWeb Formula, where I'm a member,

and this is obviously James's private community, but I learned how to

build a system in this community.

So I can assure you that you'd be able to do the same.

Oh thanks for the endorsement, Jake.

You're a classic example of someone who gets more value out than what you invest.

That's the fundamental driver for me, for I want every single member

of that community to be able to get their monthly bill and say, if I was

to stop this subscription, I would miss it and I would feel sad that I'm not

there and I, and, and they renew again.

And that's why so many people.

Stay on board, but it's, I have to earn it.

I have to work hard for that and I'm prepared to do it.

Yeah, absolutely.

All right, James.

Thanks very much for coming on this episode listeners.

Thank you very much for tuning in and we'll speak to you again very soon.