This week on the Titans of Food Service podcast, Nick Portillo speaks with David Benowitz, President of Craft and Crew Hospitality. David discusses the challenges and rewards of working alongside his father, highlighting the need for open communication and the evolution of their relationship as they navigate the complexities of a family business. David elaborates on the entrepreneurial operating system (EOS) that has been pivotal in shaping their company's structure and success, illustrating how it fosters clarity and consistency in operations. David also expresses his commitment to building a legacy that not only supports their staff and families but also prepares the next generation for potential leadership in the business.

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro

(02:06) Exploring Minnesota's Food Service Scene

(06:16) The Journey into Hospitality

(19:23) The Importance of Networking and Leadership in Business

(21:42) Navigating Family Dynamics in Business

(32:56) Decisions That Shape Our Business Journey

(36:35) Navigating Family and Business Dynamics

RESOURCES

Portillo Sales

CONTACT 

Nick: nick.portillo@portillosales.com

There are a million ways to make money in the food service industry.

You just have to find one.

On the Titans of Food Service podcast.

I interview real life movers and shakers in the food game who cut through all the noise to get to the top.

My name is Nick Portillo and welcome to the Titans of Food Service podcast.

Let's jump right into it.

Welcome back to season three of Titans of Food Service.

I'm your host Nick Portillo and I'm continuing my Journey across America in 50 weeks tour where I'm highlighting one titan of food service from every state.

This week I'm heading to the land of 10,000 Lakes, Minnesota and to do so, I'm thrilled to welcome David Benowitz.

He's the President of Craft and Crew Hospitality.

On the episode we talk about his experience in the business, how he got into the business.

He also works with his dad and the dynamics of a father, son relationship approach, professional relationship and a personal relationship and trying to maintain the two.

It's a really fun, interesting and I even conversation.

I even mentioned David that you know, he's very introspective and I like the the way that he thinks about things and you'll get to see that a little bit in the episode but little background on David.

He leads this impre impressive lineup of restaurants under the Crafting Crew umbrella, some of which include Dukes on 7th, the Block 6, Stanley's Northeast Barroom, Pub, 819, the How Daily Kitchen and Bar, Al's Place and the Bar Drafthouse.

He has a clear commitment to building a corporate culture that values employee growth and guest satisfaction.

He also ensures that Crafting Crew's core values, which are guest satisfaction, crew development, teamwork, creativity, fun and growth are at the center of every decision that they make within the business.

It's this dedication that has helped them create unforgivable dining experiences across across the entire state of Minnesota.

In the conversation we also talk about his use of eos, the entrepreneurial operating system, and how he has a visionary and implementer.

And you're probably wondering what maybe what am I talking about?

Or maybe you are familiar with it.

But we get more into that in the discussion.

Before I dive into my conversation with David, I want to explore a little bit about what makes Minnesota's food service scene so unique.

So it's known for its love of comfort food and locally sourced ingredients.

The state's culinary identity is deeply tied to its Scandinavian and German roots.

The state is famous for iconic dishes like Tater Tot, Hot Dish, Wild Rice Soup and The legendary Juicy Lucy burger, a Minneapolis invention featuring a cheese stuffed patty.

Minnesota also boasts a thriving craft beer scene with over 200 breweries statewide.

And its food service industry generates billions annually, supporting thousands of restaurants and jobs, making it a cornerstone of the local economy.

Now, without further ado, let's go ahead and welcome.

All right, David, welcome to the titans of food service.

Man, I appreciate you taking time to come on and meet with me.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Happy to be a part of this and looking forward to the conversation today.

Yeah.

So how's your.

How's the new year going for you, for your business overall?

Pretty pretty well.

We had one major setback that was out of our control, which we talked about previously with a fire that we had at one of our stores.

But besides that, you know, things are going fairly well as expected.

We have a little bit of a downturn in January and February.

I think a lot of restaurants do.

But to combat that, we pushed out a pretty large gift card sale and also have a pretty aggressive promotion for the month of January on some food items that has been perceived pretty.

Pretty well so far in terms of the value play.

So, you know, we like to constantly innovate and try new things.

So usually this is the time of the year where we'll push a lot of new items out and hopefully one or two sticks that we can continue every January and February.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Why this time of the year?

Why do you push it here at the beginning of a year?

Well, look, I mean, I think customers after the holidays are looking to save where they can and have a lot of expenses from the month of December.

So at least with our business and where we're located, we've always seen a little bit of a downturn in January and February just because in Minnesota, not only is it cold, but also, as I just previously stated, it tends to be a time of the year where people are looking to find a deal and spend a little bit less.

So we try to be pretty aggressive during these months to sustain revenue.

That makes sense.

I was talking to a gentleman just yesterday, actually.

Yeah.

From Minnesota, and he's saying that it was negative five where he was in the state yesterday.

I was like, holy.

Where I'm at right now, it's.

I'm literally looking out the window.

It's sunny.

It's probably about 65, 70 degrees out.

Sounds nice.

It's pretty nice.

I.

I've only been in Minnesota once.

Beautiful place.

But I went in the fall and it wasn't too cold.

All the.

The trees were, you Know, turning that brown orangish color.

Beautiful place.

And I think I want to look.

Minnesota is an awesome place, not only to raise a family, but in the spring, the summer, there's nothing better.

But in the winter, it can be pretty brutal.

Yeah.

Especially if you're not accustomed to the weather, snow and ice.

However, the last couple of winters, in terms of snow accumulation, it's been fantastic because there has been very minimal amount.

So right now we have maybe a half inch, which for this time of the year, we typically have 20 to 30 inches on the ground.

So.

Wow.

Much different climate than where I'm at.

Yes.

So tell me, go back to the beginning.

How did you get into the food business?

Yeah.

So, you know, my story is probably a little bit different than.

Than most.

I actually was always interested in the hotel space.

Growing up, I was fascinated by everything in Las Vegas.

My parents took me to Las Vegas, I think, when I was 16 or 17 years old.

Prior to me being legally able to gamble, that doesn't mean I didn't try to try.

And something that most people don't know about me, you know, in junior high and high school, I.

When my job was to perform magic and I did it for private events, birthday parties, I.

I did a couple local restaurants, like Friday and Saturday nights.

Um, so.

And Las Vegas is, you know, also known for their acts.

And one of that is this magic.

So I remember going.

Going there as a kid and just being fascinated by.

By that aspect of it and then by the sheer volume of.

Of people going in and out of the hotels and the restaurants.

So I always, you know, had an inkling that I would go into hospitality in some capacity.

I just didn't know how to get there.

My father was in the bar business, not in the food business growing up.

And I saw, you know, a lot of issues with him being in that business.

He didn't have a lot of support.

It was really him running the show, and he wore every single hat.

Didn't have really any structure in place.

He purchased a property in a building that had a kitchen, and he had zero food experience.

As I just mentioned, I was working for Corporate America at the time, doing inside sales.

And I think, you know, two or three months into the.

The opening, he called me and said, david, if there's ever a time that he'd be interested to come help me out, I could really utilize your help.

And I said, you know, why don't I try working along your side?

And inside the restaurant on the weekends I'll continue doing my corporate job.

So I did that for about three months and I just, I really saw a path.

I didn't know how I would get there, but I knew I could create something great alongside my father.

So about three months later I ended up putting my notice in where I'm working with him full time.

And we were closely together for about the first decade in the same office in the basement in our south Minneapolis store, which we still have.

But I put out a post for an unpaid marketing intern.

I swear that's what the post said.

We ended up paying him with food and gas money for the first six months and that was it.

I don't think I'd fly anymore.

And I just saw his name was Luke and I just saw something in him that I hadn't seen anyone else that had met thus far in the business.

And he started running all of our marketing for us.

When I went to school, social media really wasn't a thing.

So I was trying to align our businesses with Facebook at the time, email marketing.

I was doing all that from my own personal email and sending them out, if you remember those days.

And you know, he took that on and then eventually went on to run all of our operations and we hired someone else to do marketing for us as an intern.

That's sort of been our model is internship into full time position within the organization.

It's been a great model for us.

We can talk about that more if you want but.

And now he.

And now he's a business partner with myself and my father, who, who my father no longer runs the day to day.

So Luke and I oversee all of our stores.

We also have ownership in four of our eight concepts.

That's insane that you found someone for an unpaid position on Craigslist.

You never know what can happen.

I feel like when you hear Craigslist like it's always kind of a crapshoot of, you know, what you're gonna get from there.

You know, I, I've been, I've not personally been on Craigslist in, I mean probably a decade.

And even back in the day when I would go on it, it's like, you know, whether you want, I, I used to do like Bartering with people.

So I trade things and I, I'd find people on there with stuff they're trying to sell or get rid of.

Every time I deal with someone on there, it's like, this is interesting.

Or, you know, or even when I do a deal, I can.

Broad daylight, I'm trading a golf club for a wallet.

Or it was kind of a fun thing that I was doing.

You're like, is this person, you know, sane and a good person?

I don't know.

Correct, correct.

But that is really cool that you found, you know, what would be an eventual business partner of yours through Craigslist.

And so now.

So Luke's job mainly is operations.

Is he?

Or what else does he do?

Yeah, so he, he's co owner.

So we're, I don't know if you're familiar, Nick, with the traction model.

Traction, okay.

So, so we're on that model.

We've been on it for the last eight years.

You know, in terms of the visionary integrator.

Yep.

For a while he was our integrator.

Okay.

Now we're in the process of promoting someone else in that position.

So we're, you know, so we're sort of both taking on the visionary role, but we're, we tend to go back and forth as well.

So, you know, we both have ideas on how we want the, where the company to go to in terms of the vision, but in terms of, you know, our operations.

You know, he had the title for probably seven years of director of operations and again now that that role is going to be going to somebody else.

But yeah, I'm grateful every day that I found them.

I know how challenging it is just by talking with a lot of my colleagues in the industry locally, having that right hand person by your side to help, not only to talk to, but, you know, to go through all the issues that we go through in our industry every day with being in the people business, there's, you know, it needs constant attention.

So it's, it's lonely at the top and you know, to have someone along, along your side is, is truly beneficial.

And you know, I, you know, I tell everyone, you know, find, find a good integrator if they're on the EOS model because it's truly a game changer.

We wouldn't be even close to the level we're at without him in place.

And for those listening, you know, kind of the EOS model with the visionary and the implementer, because my dad and I, we, we use elements of EOS ourselves where he's kind of the visionary kind of the idea person.

And then he has me.

I'm also kind of a visionary and an implementer.

I do a little bit of both.

But essentially, you know, if he or him and I, we create the idea, then I, I'm in charge of putting the idea into, into action.

And then underneath that, you know, folds out into your rocks, which are like quarterly goals or.

Goals.

Exactly.

Right.

Level 10 meetings, which we do every week within our different divisions, departments within our company to make sure that we're achieving the overall vision and you know, what we set out to do for the, for the year.

So we, we do use elements of that and it's really been nice, you know, just keeping the business on track.

I think for me personally, I'm not necessarily like a good manager of people, but I can understand like putting a process into place and then finding and how, you know, essentially having people help me put that, those things into action and manage the process and manage the people to be able to accomplish what we need to do.

Yeah, yeah, I'll say, Nick, you know, if you are looking to grow and if you don't have the right structure, I'm not saying EOS is for everyone.

I know there's other operating systems, but I just would advise having something in place to have that structure because people crave structure.

And when we first started it, we did have some comments like we're becoming too corporate.

But there's a reason for it, right?

There's a reason why these large restaurants are who they are, because they have a process and a structure and it's followed every time.

You know, consistency is key.

Right.

And customers need consistency and they're.

You're not going to be able to accomplish that without the right systems and protocol in place.

I just, I've seen it work so many times well this way.

And when, you know, usually when people fail, they don't have.

It's either, you know, people process or product.

People's number one.

But if you don't have the right process for the people, it's.

It can fail pretty quickly because people are going to really look for an organization that they feel confident in.

And you know, if they feel confident, they're going to be happy coming to work.

And so that's what it's all about.

Yeah, you're totally right.

You know, in our experience as well, you know, giving that, as you kind of mentioned, given the structure to the business, I like to tell our team like, hey, we want to do, we want to do big company stuff, but protect and perfect what we do as a, you know, as, as a smaller business, medium business as we grow.

Because if you, if we look at like the things that like a ConAgra does or you know, some of these large just food businesses, for example, you know, they're doing, they're super systematized superstructure, we're not necessarily going to maybe get to that point, but we can work towards those types of things and protect our culture, you know, make it a great place for people to work and EOS's.

Are you a member of VO?

I'm not a member of EO, no.

Maybe I should be.

Have you ever heard of EO before?

I have, yeah.

That's how I found out about eos.

I've been in EO now for about five years and it's been great.

You know, you join, you get into a forum with like anywhere between five to eight people and talk about different parts of your business.

You really get to discover a lot of your blind, blind spots because they put you in a group with entrepreneurs that are within other industries that are not your own.

And so it's fascinating to hear how other people, you know, run their business.

And so eos.

Very familiar with that.

I've heard of MAP and there's other, you know, systems out there that people use that seem to be pretty beneficial for their business.

Yeah, I was, I was involved with Vistage.

I don't know if you've heard of MyStage.

I know, yeah, about a year and a half and it was great.

I just had some issues with my forum and the people inside that, which is why I dropped out.

So I'm familiar with the process of the forum but it's really beneficial, especially if you have the right people in place.

That group think model and a lot of the Visage members are on EOS traction.

So it's nice to have the same language and in terms of your communication with them as well.

You ever heard of the, the adage?

I'm sure you have.

There's.

If you're on social media, you've heard this, that you are like the sum of your five closest friends.

So true.

It is.

And as like I've got so many friends who are growing up, they're just total yahoos.

They're just, you know, fun to hang out with and.

But I was like, I don't want to ditch those because I, I enjoy hanging out with those guys.

But there's also guys in that you can meet at EO or professional, professionally that you know, that you know, in There you can build a network of other people that are entrepreneurs going through a similar type experience.

It doesn't have to be a group like that, but that's been my way of finding, you know, building out my network of people that are going through similar type issues and problems and experiences that I'm going through at the same time.

Yeah.

And the networking piece is, is so crucial, I can't tell you how many avenues I've opened.

Yeah.

Because of where I not only place myself, but also have the opportunity to give of myself as well.

Yeah.

So prior to being envisaged, I was in another program was called Economic Gardening Locally here it was by the Small Business association and where it was like a roundtable format of different industries that came together and talked about real time issues.

And I always thought to myself, why isn't there something like this just for restaurants?

Maybe nationally there was, but here in the Twin Cities there wasn't at that time.

So I'm like, what the hell, I'm just gonna start myself.

So I started with three other restaurants that I was pretty close with and now we have, I think, 40 restaurants involved with it.

I don't advertise it at all, just sort of a word of mouth.

We meet monthly at a different restaurant every month and we, you know, we process issues just like you do in Vistage or, or eo because we're all going through, you know, similar types of issues and maybe if you haven't gone through that issue, maybe you know, someone else that has that help.

So we provide, you know, insighted perspective and resources to each other, not only in that meeting, but outside that meeting.

And then usually quarterly, we'll bring in an outside speaker to talk about an educational item to help us with our business professionally and sometimes even personally as well.

That's really smart.

I on this, on this podcast, I've had people that have owned restaurants and restaurant chains and every time I talk to somebody within that field, like I always pick up like a little nugget or different tactic that these different restauranteurs do.

And it's like, man, that should be shared across other restaurants.

You know, like, this is a great idea and good for you for starting that.

I think that's really, really cool that you're doing that.

Yeah, that's been fun.

And it's been, you know, probably the number one reason why I've been able to network the way I have within the Twin Cities, because of that and I don't charge for it, it's just my time.

But I tell you, the benefit that I received because it's a free service, you know, there isn't, you know, money that just there's, there's so much value.

Speaking of mentors or working with people within your business, what's it been like working with your dad over the years?

Yeah, you know, I, you know, I would be lying if I was saying that it's easy.

It hasn't been.

I think all family businesses have their challenge.

Typically the more family members that are in the business, there's more challenges because of the personality.

But my dad and I really had from the beginning a truly different perspective on how to manage the business and the people inside of it from day one.

And for the first couple of years I sort of went along with it because I didn't know any better.

But as I tested what I thought at the core was right, things started changing for the better.

And it took him a while to understand and see that.

But when I finally spoke up and self advocated because there was no one else besides me and there's, I have an older brother, but he's not in the business.

He started seeing a different way of, of handling the business and thinking differently.

But still, even today, even though he's not involved in the day to day, he's on our board, more of an advisor role.

He's in town more in the summer than the winter time so that my parents travel in the winter more.

I wish they should at their age.

It still is challenging just because he, you know, this is really his, his legacy and his life.

You know, he, you know, maybe it's a generational thing, but he hasn't really built a lot outside of his business.

Like this is how he identifies himself.

And for me, I identify myself in a lot of other aspects of my life in terms of know my hobbies and you know, my family and my networking groups.

Obviously the business is important, but we, so we look at, we also look at life very differently.

So we've had a lot of those discussions.

Like there's the family component and then there's the business component.

And what is like, what is most important?

Right?

What is most important like are, you know, we've, I've been at this for 21 years.

He'll be 75 this year.

We have a really good structure in place.

The, the business is pretty solid in terms of the people we have now.

And, and again, the just organizational structure component, you know, if he wasn't involved, things would continue on this, this path with the people we have.

And, you know, to clearly articulate that to him, I think is, Is important.

So that's, that's a lot of the conversations we've been having recently is let's really try to, you know, solidify the family piece and the father son piece first and the business second.

Because for the past 21 years, it's been all, you know, 90% of the relationship in the business has been the business and, you know, family and personal ties into it, but only if the business comes up.

And I don't, at this point in our lives and our careers, I don't agree with it because nothing is guaranteed, right?

Nothing is guaranteed.

And I would hate to look back if something were to happen and regret not having these hard conversations.

And nobody likes to have hard conversations, right.

And again, there aren't any other family members to advocate, so I have to self advocate.

So it's taken me a long time to come this realization and really be upfront and vulnerable, but I think it's really important.

Another reason why I started writing this family business book that I'm writing, it's a family business blueprint.

And you know, there's a lot of family business books out there.

I think mine is going to be different because of the conversations not only I've had with my father, and I go into pretty great detail on how I started those and the outcomes of those conversations, but I interviewed about 25 other business owners of first, second, third, fourth generations and their experience versus what I've experienced over the 21 years.

And I wanted to put this book out, and I'm going to be putting this book out because I want to help other small family businesses succeed.

Because I wish I had the knowledge and understanding I have today, 20 years ago, because I would have done things a lot differently and I would have saved a lot more time, saved a lot more money and energy, you know, just mental space and capacity and then sleep.

I mean, it's been challenging.

And you know, there's been times over the past 20 years where I thought about quitting.

I'm not gonna lie, because it's been so hard.

But at the end of the day, you know, I had to continue on for my family and for the legacy of the brands.

I knew we could build something much bigger than what it was.

And we had so many people that relied on us.

Not only our staff, but also their families.

So when I looked at that, I was like, we know.

I knew if I were to give up, things would fall along, and that was not okay with me.

So we're in a better position today than we were, you know, four years ago.

I'll say.

You know, four years ago, it was in a pretty bad and dark spot.

And that's when I started to think, like, how can I take this and really help other people?

Because I know there's other people in the same position that are struggling.

And because it's family, these conversations are hard, and I just want to help.

So this book I've been working on for about the last year and a half, it's, you know, taken as much time as it has just because of the business.

Right.

Like, we had a fire in one of our kitchens this summer, and then we opened another business.

So, you know, and so I'm currently working on.

It's all written, but now it's being edited, and hopefully Q1.

At the end of Q1, it will be coming up so you can look for it.

But it's.

Yeah, it's.

It's.

The title, at least right now is just a Family Business, Family Business Blueprint.

And it'll be in online on Amazon very soon.

I like that.

I could definitely empathize being in a family business, working with my dad as well.

And it's a weird.

There's a.

There's a power dynamic.

Right, for me and for you.

You know, our dads have been in this.

Doing this, you know, type of work for a very long time, and they have the experience.

And then we come in as.

As, you know, this.

The son already in this.

In a different, you know, power.

In a power dynamic where he, you know, is.

Is the older, is the elder.

We've always looked up to him as a dad, and now we're in a professional.

I like what you said, too.

Like, the first couple years, you kind of just went along with it, and then you start to learn and then you start to apply, you know, the things that you've learned in your life and your education into the business and is it accepted?

You know, just because it was done1way 20 years ago May not be how we want to do it today.

You know, are they open to change and things like that?

I was actually talking with a buddy of mine this last week, and he's in a business where it's him and another gentleman, and my buddy's 31, and.

And the guy's in his 60s and it's multiple generations older and how that person views business and, you know, the use of technology and, you know, they're constantly in this battle of no, we.

In order to get new customers and retain the ones we have, we have to look at the business a lot different.

They're a financial advising firm.

They have to look at the business a lot differently than how it's always been.

So it's very unique in.

In that way.

And I also resonate, too, with what you're saying with.

Between the boundaries of work and family.

My dad, I think, in many ways, does view his job as his identity, where I'm kind of like yourself, right?

My job, my family, and there's, like, more to life.

I think maybe it's a generational thing or maybe it's a personal thing.

I don't know.

Yeah, it probably is.

It probably is.

And it's interesting.

Doing business the way we're doing right now is not going to get us there.

And we need to think differently.

We need to think outside the box.

We need to bring in other resources.

And, you know, shortly thereafter, I introduced, you know, I was introduced to the traction EOS model by a colleague in a different industry.

And I brought in a professional implementer to, you know, implement this for our company.

And she had to have several meetings with my dad about the process because this.

This idea of not only investing in a concept like this over the course of several years, but bringing in an outside professional to.

To lead our leadership team at that time was foreign to my dad.

And, you know, after the first meeting, he was.

He's like, I don't think this is going to work.

I don't see, you know, a reason to invest, you know, tens of thousands of dollars into this.

What we're doing right now is just fine.

So the conversations that had to happen and just to put that structure into place was immense.

And it was, you know, both on myself and with Luke talking to him about it.

You know, fortunately we were able to convince him.

But.

And, you know, that, you know, I'm so glad we did it because, you know, that was really, you know, the turning point of our business.

It really was, I think back of like, what is one, you know, now you know, I say to, to my, to my kids, like everyone, I believe, you know, there's four or five decisions, professionally and personally, that someone makes throughout their lives that can greatly change the trajectory of their life.

Right.

And what are those four or five decisions going to be for, for you?

Like the thing.

And it could be, you know, positive or it could be a negative thing.

Right.

It can happen really quickly.

You never know when it's going to happen.

You know, for our business, I would say that is one of the four or five decisions that we made that completely changed the trajectory of our business.

Now personally, I can identify those two in my head.

And we were actually just on winter break with our family and we had this conversation at the dinner table one night right before New Year's Eve.

We all talked about them up until this point in our lives.

Like, what do we believe it is?

But I truly believe that at any moment it can change based upon a decision that you make.

And it's really interesting to think about that.

But that's implementing eos into our business was definitely one of ours.

And the organization still feels it 10 years later.

It really does.

I like how you put that too, like you kind of having four to five big decisions in your professional life.

You know, I look back on the, the history of my business, which has been around for 10 years now, and there has been, yeah, a couple big things that really, I mean, you have years of, you know, you have years of growth and years of, you know, loss as well.

But it's really been a couple, you know, a few decisions that have really been, you know, instrumental on how we made it to 10 years and how we got to where we're at now that we're in 10 years.

I like how you said that.

Yeah, thank you.

What do you hope to achieve with your dad?

I really hope we can get to a place where he's, he's looking at the bigger picture of what this is all about versus, you know, my dad is.

And maybe this is a generational thing.

My dad is a very numbers driven, financial minded person.

So majority of our conversations revolve around that because that's what he knows and that's what he looks at.

We just had a conversation last week about this, that now I said, dad, if you think about the last 10 years, how many times have you come to me or even come to Luke and said, you know, we, what can we do to create more value for our guests?

What can we do to provide more benefits or maybe different benefits for our staff to Maybe make them think differently about the organization or maybe to attract different types of talent that you've never had those conversations with us and that's okay because we have it handled.

But just think about it like everything we talk about is financially related to the businesses that you own 100%.

Because that's just how his mind always operates.

And that ties, as I talked about earlier, that ties directly into our personal relationship too because it is constantly coming up.

So I hope we can get to a place where he thinks of family first and he sees me as his son first versus his business partner first.

Because right now, and I'll tell him this too, I feel that he sees me as his partner and then his son and especially at this point in his life, he's going to be 75.

I don't think that's okay.

And I'm not comfortable with it anymore.

Yeah.

So that I, so I, I think that answers your question where he's just, he, he sees me differently versus how he's seen me over the past 20 years because nothing is guaranteed and we just really need to think about the big picture and where we're at and what's truly important.

If you can go back in time over 20 years ago when you started, would you have chosen to do this?

I would, I would.

I'm a true believer that, you know, everything really happens for a reason.

And I think I was, I think my dad asked me and pushed me to come help him versus my brother because he knew, you know, consciously or unconsciously that I was going to have the ability to take us to the level that we're at today.

And I just, maybe not that I'm better or smarter than my brother, but I probably think a little bit differently when it comes to business and to marketing and to people.

There's also the, the family component where my wife is truly understanding of the situation that I'm in and she allows me to have the flexibility that is needed, especially earlier on in my career when we are opening a lot of stores and having small kids where my sister in law, not that she is inflexible and this wonderful person, but she doesn't necessarily have that same mindset.

So there's a lot that goes into it.

So I, I just, I truly feel that I was put in this position for, for a reason.

And you know, now I'm, I'm trying, you know, not only to, to build this legacy for my, my family, but you know, our brand and the Twin Cities is, you know, fairly well known in our space.

In our niche, of our.

Of our restaurant in terms of the, I would say the elevated American cuisine space.

And that means a lot.

Like, we.

I want to continue it and, you know, have it grow, and I want to be there for only our staff, but.

But their families.

And if one of my kids or my brother's kids has the skill set and brings something of value to the table and truly has a passion for the industry, I want this to be there for them as well.

So I'd.

Yeah.

So I would.

I would say yes.

I, I.

Even though it has been by far and away the most challenging piece of my life, it's also been the most rewarding because I've.

I've been able to not only gain so much, you know, perspective, but it's challenged me in a way that I never thought I could be challenged.

And it's, you know, brought me out of my comfort zone so many times that I've had to be uncomfortable and reach out for help in ways I never thought that I would or could.

But then in turn, that's brought opportunities to me that I never thought that I would have.

So I, you know, I never, you know, 20 years, I mean, before I started in this business, just growing up, I was a very introverted child and had a really challenging time.

I can even remember growing up, like, ordering food at a restaurant.

I had the hardest time communicating with a server.

I remember my parents talking to me about it, and it took me, like, years and years and years just to order myself because I was so shy and just a true introvert.

So thinking about what I do now and the opportunities I have and the speaking engagements that I've done within the industry that never would have happened if I didn't go along this path.

So I.

I'm truly grateful for the opportunity that I've been given, but also grateful for the people in my life and the people in our organization that have helped shape what craft and crew hospitality is today.

Incredible.

You're such an introspective person.

Despite all of the challenges you mentioned that it's been rewarding and that you would do this again.

And, you know, with the future of, you know, your own kids and, you know, your.

Your nephews and nieces and, you know, potentially, if they ever want to get in the business, I'm sure maybe you do things differently than how it was given to you.

Yeah.

Worked with you, but I think that's really cool.

Yeah.

You know, I've always said with regard to any family member, you know, we're not going to just have a position for them.

Like they have to prove themselves.

Right.

They have to bring value to the organization and have not only the passion but the skill set, you know, otherwise it's not going to work because there has been that has happened with a family member where we did not allow them to come in because we didn't feel that they were bringing value.

They just wanted it.

That doesn't mean that you're going to come into the business just because you.

You like it or want it, so.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, David, I want to say thank you so much, I mean, truly for being vulnerable today, sharing your story.

Just thank you so much that you came on and did that.

So thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome.

You're welcome.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, next time I'm out there, man, I'll have to come by and check out your.

The different concepts that you have.

Yeah, I appreciate it.