In this uproarious episode titled "I Fix Free Haircuts," host Erika Audrey and Kelly are joined by the hilarious Greg Toomey. Get ready to humorously dive into the power of embracing your authentic self.

Join Erika, Kelly, and Greg as they unravel the secrets behind using humor to transform marketing yourself from ordinary to extraordinary. From side-splitting anecdotes to valuable insights, you'll find yourself both laughing and learning.

Discover how showing up as your best self can lead to remarkable outcomes, all while sharing a good laugh with our trio. Tune in to "I Fix Free Haircuts" for a dose of wisdom served with a side of humor.

Uh, welcome to Clover

Club.

Hi.

Hi Kelly.

How are you?

I am so good.

How are you, Erica?

I am,

I'm so, I'm so good 'cause I'm so excited about our guest today.

Um, his

name's Greg.

His name is Greg.

Greg is one of my favorite clients.

He is a fucking trip and a half.

And if you've shopped at Hawkins and Clover and you've seen our

tote bag collection, all of those sayings come from Greg.

He just fires them off.

He's a genius.

He's a, a comedic genius.

Wow.

And he's sitting here with just dying to speak.

So let's go ahead and just welcome him.

Greg, say hi.

Hello.

Hi.

Hi.

I'm super excited to be here and I'm having a coffee table put

out and published in January, so

Wow.

Have all my sayings get that plugin.

Um, what's your

at?

That's a great idea.

That's actually a great idea.

Yeah, you should do that.

Alright.

Was that serious?

Are you doing it?

I'm actually doing something similar that I don't wanna share.

Too much details on, but just give us a hand.

Yeah.

What I'm, okay, fine.

Fucking let's just share.

Come on.

Full final.

What you got?

What's, what even is a secret?

, I'm putting together a Hawkins and Clover deck, and it's gonna be kind of

like my version of like Oracle cards.

But you just pick a card and it'll be, if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no.

So cute.

Or, you know what I

mean?

Those are gonna be great for terror readings.

In fact, I used to give carrot card readings with my sisters

Charlie's Angels playing cards.

Oh my God.

And I was always like, beware the Shelly Hack.

Oh

my God.

I can totally see you doing that,

actually.

That's fucking hilarious.

Wait, I cannot wait to use your new deck as terrified.

Oh yeah.

You'll be, you, will you.

It it's gonna be my life journey.

I know my deck of cards.

Oh my God, I'm totally in hundred percent.

Look at this.

It's basically done.

You just

sold two of them, so

yeah, it's basically a million.

So, uh, if you're listening, we did a little pre-recording conversation and

somehow I jokingly asked if anybody wanted champagne and the answer was yes.

And I don't normally drink it work.

I think answer was, well, yeah, we said this is not a

joke to us.

Yeah.

So, , we're gonna just have a glass of champagne.

I never drink at work, but I we're, casting can make

an exception for anything.

We're totally casting.

I was ill prepared for that pop boom.

I love champagne.

Greg just learned about natural wines from me.

From Kelly?

Did I barely, it was a, I'm not three minute conversation at most.

And it was an, it was an alcoholic elevator pitch.

Well, it came up because Greg, you're doing a cleanse with the champagne.

Clearly.

I suck at that.

He's only drinking wine.

It's, but I will never, I don't care what's going on, on, I

don't care what's going on.

I will never say no to champagne.

Thank you.

You

know, it's kind of is its own special category.

I feel like you get seven years of bad luck if you decline a nice

glass of champagne.

I mean, you can see the goodness right through the glass.

I do.

You know, if you're ever at an event with past trays of champagne,

do you know how to tell if it's a good glass or a bad glass?

Tell me

now.

I would love to know you, Kelly.

No, I don't feel like this is, I feel like you should know that.

I feel like I should know this.

This is

a life hack right here.

Yeah, this is a life hack.

, the fewer, the bubbles, the higher quality, the champagne.

So if it's super bubbly and effervescent, it's, it's got

la many other things in it.

Let's look at this one.

Oh, what have we got?

This

is, it's almost like moonshine and I get it confused, which is problematic.

But if it's in the jar and you shake it up and it has one big bubble, it's

either good or you could go blind.

I can't remember.

So, oh man.

But it's like tiny bubbles or either if it's lots of bubbles or one big

bubble, one's good and one's bad.

I don't know which.

But look it up.

Well, this

is where my saying I'll try anything twice.

Does not come in

handy.

Yeah, I would not try anything twice.

Oh my God.

I'm a risk adverse person.

Really.

Like I am.

Yes, I am.

So anxious just as a human.

Mm-hmm.

I, and it's mostly surrounding scary things like, like that, like dying,

like some sort of terrifying thing.

Don't get that from you at all.

I thought you'd run around with sparklers in your bra.

Did you, you think she's wearing a

bra?

I don't wear brass.

I'm sorry.

In your tubes out

that so funny.

Yeah.

Just so everyone knows, I don't wear bra.

Glad we got that outta the way.

I'm a very confident person, but I'm a very risk adverse

person.

. kelly: We should also Cheers.

Yeah.

Okay.

Cheers.

It's, let's go my buddies.

Yay.

Cheers.

Clove buddies.

Clove.

Clove buddies.

That's what we're gonna call our fandom.

Oh my God.

Clove buds.

Clovers.

Clove buds.

Clovers.

That's way cuter than it's very Stevie Nicks clove buds.

Jesus.

Greg, will you, and I'm gonna put you on a leash on this one, but

can you give us a brief elevator pitch of who you are and what you do?

Wow.

Um, because I need to know.

Yeah.

Everybody listening needs to know.

I,

I'll tell you that I am from Mobile, Alabama.

I'm coach trash.

Um, I came to Atlanta in 8 19 89 and was an assistant manager

at the GAP mall at Cumberland.

Oh my God.

Where Julia Roberts in her irritating family shop.

Oh my God.

Wow.

That's sidebar.

I fell into property management, was multifamily real estate, and I've been

in that space for 20 plus 25 years.

Mm.

And I've transitioned in 2000 from the owner operator side

to the vendor partner side.

And now I sell technology.

I love that.

How did you make that transition?

I just said residents suck and I went to the, the other side.

People or the, I'm the classic literary hero people are my greatest

strength and my greatest weakness.

Mm-hmm.

Uh,

yes.

One thing that has been enjoyable for me in our professional relationship, Greg, is

watching you and your career, evolution.

And I think that you have such a good framework for how you approach everything.

Everything you find the humor and you have a great attitude.

Even on the days, I can tell you're like not thrilled about stuff, you still

don't let the bad stuff rise to the top.

You always present in like a very fun, loving way, and it is so just.

Inspiring on just a very , lowkey way, you know what I mean?

Stop being sweet.

What?

It's very, I don't what to do with this.

That is very kind and I appreciate that.

And I, that is something that is important to me.

I try to, not that I don't have dark days or moments or whatever Sure.

But when I'm out in the world, I don't wanna waste it, you know?

I wanna make the best of everything.

And there is two sides to every conversation.

And sometimes you've gotta have a really good sense of humor to find the other one.

Yeah.

That is literally so true.

I like that.

Yeah.

Are, , are you an extrovert?

I think I am.

Uh, I, you know, obviously I think that Covid changed me a little bit.

Mm-hmm.

Before I used to say absolutely full frontal game show host all day long.

Yeah, I could see that.

But ironically, I, I find myself, when I see myself in a room of, of, in a

social event, I can, I see myself.

Entertaining and holding court in those arenas.

But I don't want people to pay attention to me.

I don't wanna stop the room.

I don't wanna grab the mic.

Mm-hmm.

I don't want to command attention.

Mm-hmm.

I want or steal it in any way.

I just want to be part of it and I'm, I will probably be one of

the loudest people in the room.

Yeah.

I mean, I think all of us can relate to that.

Yeah.

, here at the stable.

But, , do you get your energy from people?

again, back to the literary hero, I do get my energy.

I feed on people and they drain me.

Yeah.

In ways that I never would've thought possible.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Interesting.

I agree with that.

I'm definitely, I'm a very outgoing introvert.

I'm always gonna be, and I think, kind of like what you're saying,

you're a good facilitator, Greg.

Like if you're in a room, you're gonna do your best to make sure that

everyone else is having a good time.

Drinks are filled.

, Greg and his partner, they are famous for these pumpkin carving

parties and they're amazing.

Shut up.

And the way y'all seamlessly interact, it's this

choreographed beautiful hosting.

Aw, it's so cool.

But you're, you're the center of attention 'cause it's your party.

But the guests never feel like, I, I don't know how to explain it, but

, you're just really good at taking that energy and using it for good

That's so cool.

Thank you.

And I, I, I love people.

They are, um, they, they fascinate me and I love to.

I'd love to spend time with them and figure out how they're

wired and how they're built.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

, and because of the complexity of the world around them and just how,

and especially knowing one people's stories, it's like when you first meet

someone who said, oh, you kind of, not labeled them, but you assess them, oh,

they're this bucket of characteristics.

And then you spend really quality time with them and you realize,

wow, they didn't start this way.

They have built themselves to be, or they have evolved to this, to use your word.

Yeah.

Or they, you know, they overcame a lot to be this.

Right.

And you, we appreciate all that, that much more.

Right.

And I mean, the reason I was even bringing up the introvert extrovert

thing, , is because Erica was saying that you always have this positive attitude,

, especially like surrounding people.

Mm-hmm.

, and I feel kind of similar and I think it's because I'm a huge extrovert.

I, my happiness is when I'm with people.

I love that.

I really do love that.

Yeah.

And I think if before covid, I would've completely identified with that.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Post covid.

, I think I'm, I'm also, maybe the older I get, the more secure I am in myself.

I'm more of, , an exaggerated introvert maybe.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't necess, I'm perfectly happy being at home with my dog and Chris.

Yeah.

But I do, when I'm out, I, I enjoy that as well.

Yeah.

I need to be going out always.

I'm, I'm just having the most fun when I'm, when I'm out, my job is very

social, so I have that component that feeds me and during the day as well.

So yeah.

Also, depending on how that day goes, if it's a draining day, I just

need to unplug, which makes sense.

But when I'm on, I am on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

Well, cool.

I think,, What I'm, , extrapolating from all of that is it's just

you wanna be like fully present in whatever dynamic you're in.

So if you're in a social engagement, you're gonna be,

bring that full side of you.

But if you're at home relaxing and unplugging, you're

gonna really lean into that.

Also,

we, that was a beautiful way to, made me seem so effortless.

However, comma, um, I love that because I do, I, I, I do approach

those things with intention.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I, I, I wanna make, I wanna make sure that I'm the best

version of me every chance I can.

Uh, yes.

That is so important to me, even when I don't get it.

Right.

Even if you try, I think just having that kind of framework is so important

for how you show up in relationships, whether it's professionally or

personally, family, whatever.

Yeah.

And just going in with that intention of like, I'm gonna

be the best version of myself.

And some days that's a different version, right.

Than other days.

, and that's okay.

I think I've learned that lesson just by being around people

because yeah, it strikes me how, how often I see people completely

disconnected and detached in a crowd.

Uhhuh, you know, everyone is looking at their phone.

I know no one is making eye contact.

Yes, no one's smiling.

I mean, that's stuff that I'm like, you know, again, I'm, I'm from a

different generation, but that stuff matters and that those, it does matter.

Those that social cues and social arts that we should never

lose.

Yeah, I completely agree with that.

I think.

a lot of people, this is kind of like therapy talk, but there's this concept

of sending in your representative.

So whether it's in a like in-person dynamic where you've just met

somebody, it's like you're not gonna get the deep stuff about someone.

You're gonna get whatever version of themself.

They've kind of Oh, interesting.

Composed, and they're like, this is the me I bring to the world.

And then you've gotta peel away those layers, like you were saying

earlier, Greg, about getting to know people's backstories.

And it gives you so much more empathy and compassion and just

understanding of the human experience.

And it's our need to categorize things that sometimes that is

a detriment to, uh, connecting.

Yeah.

Because you're too busy on that.

Yeah.

And not being present to what it is.

Yes.

Mm.

You're, you're dissecting it as opposed to appreciating it.

Yes.

If that makes sense.

Yes.

I think that, I think.

So funny.

'cause Chris is an amazing man.

He's an amazing soul.

Chris is the best.

Well, I can hear you so cute.

Um, that's hurtful.

Chris is the second best.

Um, and he is, has such a heart of gold and he's amazing in

how he walks through the world.

He will leave this world so much better than he found it.

Yeah.

And it, and if you wanna get to know Chris, it won't be at a party.

It will be one-on-one.

Mm-hmm.

And you need to take the effort to make that happen.

And when you do, the reward is infinite me.

Everyone thinks they know me.

Everyone thinks I'm their best friend.

But part of that, you know, I mean, that's your representative.

It's, yeah.

It's so French Strange.

There are occasions when people come up and they say, oh my God.

I'm thinking, okay, now I'm feeling a little uncomfortable because

you passed some social boundaries.

Mm-hmm.

You're a little too intimate in knowing where we are in this

relationship, whatever this is.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

I tend to overshare.

My problem with or

without being prompted,

I mean, I kind of say what I think.

Mm-hmm.

I don't have that big of a filter.

I mean, clearly I have like, like I was raised in fucking indoors,

suburbia, like, I'm like indoors.

Like I have like the whole like be sweet, act, nice thing within me.

Yeah.

Um, so I have that.

But besides that, especially when it comes to my emotional self, I'm a huge sharer.

I don't know what it is.

Gimme an example of that.

Does that mean like the people on social media that share what they, their

meals and what they, their feeling?

It's, and the part that, I'm just gonna say this, I'm gonna interrupt you.

Yeah.

The part that bothers me, and I can't get wrap my head around it, is when they have

this crisis or this tragedy and they wanna share that in the world, and I'm like, I'm

not sure what I know what to do with that.

I would never.

Actually, I don't ever put any of my emotional stuff on social media.

Mm-hmm.

It's always in real life in person.

And it's more of, I love that and it's always really lighthearted.

Like I'm never, I don't really cry that much.

And so I, I like to make you cry.

Oh God.

I love to see people cry, but truly I don't that much.

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna prompt him anymore.

Um, prompt him, but don't make eye contact.

I know I'm not scared.

You're sitting right across from each other.

But I tend to just share stuff about my relationship, share stuff about my

relationship with my mom, like things that just come up in conversation

and they're never that serious.

I think it helps me so much to talk about my stuff.

About, I think what I'm hearing you saying is you're only, you, you're

primarily sharing the joy in your life.

No, but not emotion, not dark.

Feelings?

No, not like, not like dark, dark stuff, but like, I, I don't know,

like I'll talk about my struggles with my insecurities with people.

Um, like that's not that intense of a struggle for me necessarily.

So like when I bring it up, it doesn't feel as intense.

I'm also always bringing it up in a lighthearted way.

I just find it interesting because the representative talk

that we were talking about.

Right.

I don't feel like I have that.

Interesting.

I feel like when I meet somebody, they're meeting me.

I'm very chameleon esque.

Like I kind of adapt to who I'm around, but I'm always

saying everything I'm thinking.

It just has a different tone.

Yeah.

It comes from a different place.

Yeah.

I too have a very reflectant personality.

Yeah.

Same.

I think good conversationalists do.

I think so too.

You, you kind of have to Yeah, I

know, but I'd still get, I, I'd get down and hard on myself

when I'm confronted with someone super pissy and super unreasonable.

Oh.

Because I don't want to, I don't wanna match that energy.

Yes.

But so that's a, so that's a struggle for me at

times.

Yeah.

'cause you are attempted to, uh, lower yourself.

Roll around it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What is that?

And I don't want that.

There's that saying that's like when somebody sees two idiots arguing,

they don't know who started it or whatever, where it's like, if you're

arguing with an idiot, no one knows which one of you is the idiot.

Right?

Yeah.

And it's like, don't, just

don't.

Yeah.

It's like, don't have a fight with ugly people.

They don't have anything to lose.

Yeah.

That's so funny.

Tote bag.

I'm definitely gonna like, keep that in the back of my brain and

it's gonna pop up at the worst times.

Oh God.

Kids gonna just like, Of your book, of your coffee table.

Of my coffee table book.

I

love that.

This coffee table book has fucking chapters.

Yeah.

It's very complex.

It's gonna be therapeutic.

One is there just like chapter one and then there's one saying chapter

two and then there's another saying.

Oh, absolutely not.

No.

Okay.

So there's multiple within one.

Yes.

Yes.

I'm gonna give you a pocket full, oh my god.

Of, of, um, phrases and terminology to use at any given social case.

So is it a novel or is it a coffee table book?

I think it's more of a memoir.

Okay.

Okay.

Just gonna be called.

No, I can't make that shit up Arm an armo.

I'm a big coffee table book person.

Yeah, they're great.

Wouldn't that be a great coffee table book named Armi?

Oh,

actually, yeah.

I feel like they should sell it at the chin.

Wait, literally that's the best name.

You, you need to do it.

You can need to publish this.

'cause I feel like that Can I produce your book actually?

Well, you, you know you can.

Yes.

Abso abso flipping literally.

And yes, we'll just make every chapter a bag.

And downstairs.

Oh my God,

my God.

We do hashtag collaboration, hashtag

winning.

This is like no longer just a podcast.

It's a business.

Well, it started.

This is

Brain Shark right here.

Brain Shark.

It's a new business.

It's a new two businesses now instead of one business.

Whoa.

Oh

my God.

This is great.

This is called Synergy?

In the, in the, um, spirit of, um, sharing and being transparent,

this champagne is delicious.

Oh, I think it is too.

I'm so glad.

Um, this is from a very good friend of mine, uh, Pierre Sier is your friend.

Yeah.

Pierre is your friend.

I was like, wow, wow.

You've got some really, well, I just, I was like, I

don't wanna like name drop.

'cause people know who this person is, um, if they live in the city.

So I didn't wanna be like weird about it.

Um, well shout out

to you whoever gave

Yeah, she's awesome, Erica.

She knows who she is.

Thank you for the Pierre er arm.

Is it your friend that met at the pool party?

Oh, is it your friend that I heard that story about the other day?

No, no, no.

You had all the friends.

So many friends.

The possibilities are endless.

She's

really popular.

I, I do, I have a good, I have a good little crew.

You know, when you live in the same city for a long time, you

collect people along the way.

And, uh, I've lived here my whole life and I can't go anywhere

without running into someone I know, which isn't always a good thing.

So, uh, sometimes that's why I'm an introvert.

I think a lot of that's your fault because you do have that

gravitas that makes people want you do that want to be next to you.

And more than a lot.

I think a lot of people want your approval.

Wait, really?

Oh yeah, I think so too.

Aw.

I'm not one of those people.

Same I was at first because you were my boss.

Still

am.

Yeah.

But it feels less bossy and more friendly.

Just means you wanna say, so how have you worked for Erica?

Not including tomorrow, I know,

starting yesterday,

but it's, it's more friend now for sure than it is.

Which is the best, best, which is the best work relationship you can have.

It's much be, at first though, I was like, I, I, you can, you

can let your boss down all along.

You can't let your friend down.

Yeah.

Well, you can.

You should.

But they probably have,

but she's more forgiving now, which is nice.

That's totally true.

Now what was it like earlier?

It

was the same.

I have always, she's the strictest

boss in the world.

I, that case was thrown out.

No, she's great.

She's

great.

Clarify.

I've really struggled with, actually, this is a good segue into the story that

I'm gonna share with you guys today.

If you listen to our first episode, you probably heard me say that this podcast is

gonna be structured in two separate ways.

So you'll either have an episode like last time where it's just Kelly

and I and I am sharing a crazy or hilarious or interesting story.

And then the other is like, today where we have a guest on like Greg, and I'm gonna

share a story and that story is going to facilitate our further conversation.

So, uh, I think we should get into that story.

Serve it up.

I'm ready.

Okay, let's go.

Um, this is, uh, this is gonna be fun 'cause I haven't told

this story in a long time.

Um, it's a vintage Erika throwback.

Um, over a decade ago I was an employee at a salon and I'd worked

there for a while and was, uh, just getting to the point where I knew it

was time to look for what was next.

And just knowing my, personality type and my, just what I want out

of my career, the logical next step was for me to go out on my own.

Which was of course very scary.

I was 26 years old.

Um, well, 25 when I started like really thinking about it.

And I just kind of knew like, okay, this is, this is the next step.

I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to look like, but I was in the early stages

of laying the groundwork for that.

I had come up with the name Hawkins and Clover.

Um, I had a logo, but I didn't have a location.

I didn't have my business plan fully flushed out.

I was really just kind of getting all of my ducks in a row while I was

getting my ducks in a row, in a row.

, I was killing it at work.

, and that's kind of why I wanted to leave.

Like I was kind of maxed out where I was.

And , I knew that that ceiling was never gonna raise.

And, uh, so the, this time period that this happened, I'm, I'm trying to be

like sensitive of what I'm saying in case an old coworker or somebody listens,

they're welcome to, and I don't wanna say anything like inflammatory, but I wanna

be authentic about what happened, right?

But there was a window there of about a year, year and a half where, I

mean, a lot of us left this place and.

There was a lot of really good things about working there.

Some of these coworkers are still great friends of mine and

will be for the rest of my life.

lots of good relationships were made, but all of us kind of were like,

yeah, this isn't, this isn't the direction we want our careers to go.

, so kind of independently, a big group of us were kind of striking out, being

struck out and just kind of moving on.

So there were kind of some frank and open conversations that occurred

in the break room at this place.

And one of my frank and open conversations was Eves dropped upon and reported

back to the owner of this business.

Yeah.

No.

Yeah.

I love it.

If you're listening, fuck you.

That's

the worst thing we can do.

And if you're not, can do, fuck you not correct.

Either way.

So

true.

Yeah.

Um, it's funny too 'cause I know what this girl overheard and it's like so benign and

it's just like actually hilarious to me in hindsight that like, this is how the, the.

Tipping point of such a big career thing for me.

But one Friday I was at work fully booked, crushing it, making a

lot of money for this hell yeah.

Person like I did.

And I got called upstairs to the office.

Not the office?

No.

Oh, the office.

Um, so I go upstairs and I'm like, am I gonna get a raise?

I'm just kidding.

That was literally never happened there.

You did go upstairs.

But I did go upstairs.

That's a raise.

So I get summoned upstairs to the office and I sit down and I get fired.

I, I'm like, uh, Wow.

This is not the way, did not see this coming.

I literally did not see this coming.

And I was like,

why don't you gonna tell me how much I'm crushing

it downstairs?

Yeah.

I was, I mean, my fucking pay stub was telling me how much money.

'cause if he was taking half, I know how much I was making.

You know what I mean?

Wow.

So I was just like, god damn.

Um, so he and I don't God if so long ago, like, I don't even remember exactly

how that conversation went down, but basically it was like, Hey, a little

birdie told us you're thinking of leaving.

Here's a fucking box.

Put your shit in it and go.

Literally threw a box at me, like, not even kidding.

How long were you there?

It was almost 10 years.

Yeah.

R u

kidding.

Okay, so that says, that says, I don't, I don't, I'm gonna not gonna

filter what I say because I don't know.

Please don't.

Those people, Don and I don't really care to ever see them or meet them Yeah.

In the future.

Um, but that says how small that owner was because everybody worth anything should

want to want, should want more, yes.

Should challenge themselves.

Yes.

And just because I'm questioning whether I want to leave or not does not mean

you're not loyal or you're not doing him, or doing what you were said you

were gonna do for him and with him.

So true.

Fuck him.

100%.

Yeah.

I, like, I ran a portion of our education program.

I was that employee that was like, really?

I mean, I treated his business like it was my business, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is my, as a business owner now, that to have an employee like that.

Oh my god.

Yeah.

I mean, worth a million bucks.

Right.

Um, but there was a lot of, uh, Ego involved.

And, uh, he wasn't looking for that type of employee.

He was looking for people to come in, do their work and shut the fuck up.

And I get that, but that was never gonna be me.

And so just little by little, I felt the light leaving my eyes

and the enthusiasm leaving me.

Um, and I was too young to feel the way that I felt and that

portion of my career, and I was just like, this is not gonna work.

So, Also at that time period was engaged to somebody that I

knew was not the person for me.

And so I had the two biggest relationships in my life were not relationships

I I, that were feeding my soul.

And I knew that I had to make a change.

Right?

Right.

So I get fired and I was in shock.

I, you know, I was stunned.

Um, total blindside and, uh, I had lots of feelings about it, but I just

immediately went into action mode.

And so I took the box.

I received the box as it was tossed down the stairs to me.

Um, throne.

Throne.

Um, I packed my shit and as I was walking down the steps to the back to my car with

my box of, you know, almost a decade worth of hard work, um, I saw my appointment,

like I had one more appointment that night and I saw him walking up the

sidewalk to his and I almost said something and then I was just like,

I'm gonna let them fucking handle this.

And, uh, that to this day I see him every four weeks on Saturday.

That motherfucker is so loyal.

Not completely.

And we joke about how funny it is that we were like two ships in

the night and I like watched him walking up to like, that is Sorry.

The worst stair cut he's ever gotten.

I mean,

talk.

That is so cute.

I mean, I think that was a life lesson in just emotional management.

Yeah, true, true.

I was thinking to myself, I wasn't thinking that.

I was thinking, ah, I should have said something.

No, I just like, no, you took and you took the hardware.

I mean the hybrid.

That is, that is amazing.

That, and that is, that is a professional.

Response right there.

You know, thank you for saying that.

'cause at the time I was like, as long as my feet are on this

property, I am still at work and I still have to like show up as a

professional.

Wow.

Yeah.

But after the way they treated you, like, ah, I would be so

mad.

Oh, I was, I was, I had the whole range of emotions and, but in that

moment it was, it was actually clarity.

It was this push that I needed.

Oh.

Because I don't know how many ducks could I get in a row before

I quit, you know what I mean?

So it was like, I kind of needed to be like, flicked off

the edge of the diving board.

Mm.

And as a, as a rule, so many of us, usually when your personal life soars,

your professional life is a struggle.

Mm-hmm.

And you seem to be in the same place Yeah.

With both your personal and your professional.

So maybe that was just a little numbing.

Yeah,

I think that's , totally fair.

It was just, it was a tough time, but it was, uh, but look

at you now, girl, look at me now.

Honestly, I know.

It's like, you know, when you plant a seed, you're not gonna

have a tomato plant the next day.

And it's easy to think like nothing's happening.

But that was my seed planting stage.

Yeah.

but this is where we get into my finest marketing moment of my career.

I walked down those steps, I tossed my box of belongings into

my car and I picked up the phone.

I didn't call my fiance, I didn't call my parents.

I did not call my best friend.

I called, who'd you call?

My graphic designer.

And I said, Sherry, we have an emergency drop everything you're

doing, I'll pay any price.

I need you to put together a graphic for social media right now.

And she was like, I was like, I just got fucking fired.

And she was like, oh my God, I'm on it.

Like, what does it need to say?

And I said, it needs to say, I fix free haircuts because I knew the second I

was fired, every one of my clients was gonna get a phone call and 47 emails

from this shop offering them a free haircut to try to get them to stay.

And that's very common and very shitty in the salon industry.

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

But here's the thing.

No good hairdresser has time on their schedule to accommodate a free haircut.

So that free haircut is gonna be with a junior stylist who doesn't

have a lot of experience, and you're gonna get what they pay for.

You're gonna get what you pay for, which is wow.

Right?

But I just, it just, it was like the strike of flight and I was

just like, this is my thing.

And honestly, if you wanna go get that free haircut, fine,

I will fix it for not free.

, and so I spent the next week, scrambling.

I just made a list of everything I needed to get together.

I found this.

Funny little spot to rent a chair from.

, I grabbed another girl, she ended up coming over with me and I spent the next

year just hustling out of that space.

I found the location we're sitting in now.

I signed my lease, I did our build out.

I had no fucking money.

, nobody would give me a loan.

I had this like fat, beautiful business plan that I put together.

Every bank shot me down because I'm like, they think hairdressers are stupid.

, I had no business experience.

I had good credit, but not a lot of credit.

, so I'm just this young girl who's like, hi everybody.

I have a dream and if you would give me some money, it would be cool.

, they're just like, why don't you go build your dream on like your own

money and then come back and see us?

And I was like, I won't need your money then.

I don't have any.

Yeah, exactly.

So I scrambled and made it work and I opened up this place and

I kept, I would say at least 90% of my clientele and uh, wow.

To this day people will randomly be like, do you remember your

I fix free haircuts thing?

And I'm like, fuck yeah, I do.

What's, what's

impressive to me is that a, that you, that you, without delay, you

just did that, that trigger clicked for you and same just moved forward

and you just said, you know what?

I'm gonna do this.

Yeah.

Right now.

Right.

This, this is the, the, the fuel that I need.

Mm-hmm.

But I mean, I don't know a lot about the, um, the hair industry, but I know you,

one of my very best friends, Rudy, is a comp pathologist and it's just so funny.

One thing I do know, I know from where I am with the little hair that I

have, right, is that people have blind loyalty to a hairstylist a lot, but

their hair colorist, they will walk through fire in a gasoline g-string.

So true.

To find

you so true.

It's so true.

I had so many gasoline g-string in here.

I mean,

Amazing.

You were like, guys put some clothes on.

Yeah.

It's not,

I can't afford air conditioning yet, but it's coming season two.

Yeah.

But you know, it's interesting, that moment, it really was

like divinely inspired.

I feel like I can't even take credit for that.

It was just this flash of like, this is what this house is like.

It just came.

Yeah.

And to this day I have struggled with marketing.

I hate it because it feels inauthentic and I don't know how

to accurately market my brand.

And, and when I say my brand, I mean the retail portion of my brand.

Because it feels, , I don't know.

I, I never wanna do anything performative.

And I, I know we touched on this on last episode also, but it's really hard for

me to find ways to advertise myself and my business and what I do that doesn't

feel like I'm just following trends and just doing these things you're like

supposed to do as a business owner.

This, I feel like using humor has always been the, like one

commonality in everything I do that feels the most authentic.

So this was like a funny way for me to be like, no, for real though.

Like, y'all are gonna wanna get my phone number.

Okay.

If I could, I wanna circle back to something I said earlier.

Okay.

I'm talking about how the, the loyalty that hair, , stylists

and hair colors have Yeah.

That was not saying, oh, they're gonna find you anyway.

That was a commentary to the poor decision that that other hair salon owner made.

Yeah.

'cause he should have saw through that.

Mm-hmm.

When has that never not happened?

Yeah.

It's so true.

And I'm like, you know, again, why don't you, why don't, if I, if I was in this

situation, I would be kissing your ass.

Please stay, please train.

Correct.

Also, even for that year that I rented that chair in between,

even if I had been at that place instead of at the chair rental place.

He would've gotten half of everything I did while I was building this.

So it's so shortsighted and it's such an interesting case study on how ego can

get in the way of running a good brand.

Yeah.

He was just

offended.

Very, you, you know what?

Sometimes Yeah.

And scarcity sometimes.

That was all.

Mm-hmm.

There are opportunities to send flowers, to show gratitude for

people that make really bad choices.

That better your life.

You know what I thought of sending him, , when I was open for six months, no.

I won coffee table Best salon inside the perimeter for Atlanta

Magazine Reader's Choice.

Twice.

Twice.

, and I thought about sending him a coffee.

No, I would

frame it

and then And sign it.

And sign.

Thanks Besty for framing.

I also really admire the action because so many people like.

Like, yeah.

I feel like your body was telling you Yes.

Like this is not Yeah.

Where I was supposed to be.

Mm-hmm.

Because if you said after like, I've been in situations where something

negative that I didn't want to happen happened, and then I suddenly

felt this huge amount of clarity.

Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Yeah.

And like I get that and this huge weight off my shoulders.

Yeah.

Where I was like, for some reason this is good.

Mm-hmm.

But I'm also a wreck now.

Like, what?

How does this happen?

And so I tend to go kind of inward when that happens and be like, okay, I need

to like, Think of what I can do, but the fact that you immediately called that

graphic designer, designer, no, I, yeah.

The no delay for me.

It's crazy.

My car wasn't even on like, I was like,

I was gonna say, the box hasn't cooled from the AC yet.

Yeah.

Literally.

That's amazing though.

Like I, I find that very admirable.

The, the

action and Thank you.

One thing that I've learned in life that it, I just keep saying when,

when I'm, I'm, I'm using air quotes again, I'm having a bad day, or

my life is catastrophic in my own personal, caught up, self-centered way.

Yeah.

Is that sometimes when things don't go your way, it's simply because

you deserve something better.

100%.

And until you have enough life experience to see that in action, it can feel so

catastrophic when these big things happen.

And

devastating.

Yeah.

Not to talk like age, but I do feel that way.

I'm like, yeah, I feel like.

I'm, you are 12 Twice.

I'm 12.

Twice.

What?

I'm not at the age yet where I like accept the things for the better.

Yeah.

Like truly.

Yeah.

I just know.

But you shouldn't be like, literally not there.

I, I know sometimes they feel good.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm like, what does this suddenly feel good?

But mm-hmm.

I, I know looking back I'm gonna be like, oh, this was why this happened.

And it's cool to like hear your story of that and like, where you are now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But in your defense, it's hard to be present to where you are and have

clarity to what's in front and behind.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

It's because

you're not being present if you are.

And also, truthfully, what's, it's true, what's, what's behind for me, I'm 24.

She won't 12 that, but, but what's behind for me is like my teenage hood.

Yeah.

And that is a totally different situation.

I've only been an adult for like,

What time is it now?

Yeah,

yeah.

Like six years, two hours, six, four o'clock, eight minutes.

Like it's, it's really like she's a noob.

That awesome.

I, I, and I feel like a little child in the adult world.

I love,

love that though.

But I gotta tell you, it's meeting amazing people like you that

give me hope in our country.

There is so much chaos going on that's very sweet.

And I'm like, oh my God, I just need more of you.

Yes.

To step up, say, this is bullshit.

Mm-hmm.

This is what we're gonna do about it.

Yeah.

You know?

Say.

I felt that immediately when I met Kelly.

I was like, she's one of the good ones.

And like, these are the people that we need to like lift up and like

prepare to like, you make me blush.

Well, I mean, I don't give compliments.

I don't mean that's fucking Sure.

She's not known for a

complimentary,

her congeniality.

I'm known that if you get a compliment from me, that I mean it

ab Absolutely.

Yeah.

And that's one thing I love about you, that one thing I've, I've gravitated

like many others have gravitated towards you, is that you have such a strong

sense of self and that you're, you're so generous with yourself to others.

I try.

That's true.

I love that.

And, but I you, you're talking about you're struggle for authenticity.

I'm like, I don't get it.

I don't get it.

Because that's interesting.

It seems, , it radiates off of you.

You're funny.

You, you know it, you shoot, you shoot straight.

I never walk away wondering what you thought.

I will say every time that you've told me I struggle

with like the os authenticity, I'm like, That is so confusing.

I get that you don't love social media and you don't love TikTok

and you don't love like these

things.

I think that you probably, um, tell me if I'm wrong.

You're

probably not, you're

not wrong.

, I, I think that, I think because you have, like me and probably you Kelly, is

that, you've had to endure and be patient to so much inauthenticity is that you're

harder on yourself because you, so you want to be the, the antithesis of that.

Yeah.

Yes.

But in, but you also have to own what you are achieving and what you've done and

who you be.

Yeah.

I have such a hard time with that.

'cause I feel like I can always be doing more or should be doing more.

'cause there's this whole like girl boss narrative that's so fucking toxic and

uh, I fed into it for a long time and that all was really kind of escalating

around the time I built this brand.

Right.

And, uh, I, definitely played into it.

, greg: and it's not healthy we'll say

need to listen to your own voice anyway.

I agree.

I agree.

And I think too, and this kinda goes back to Kelly, what you will just naturally

learn as your career grows, but seeing how other people handle things and

saying, Hmm, I don't wanna do that.

I don't wanna treat people that way.

Like, I spent almost a decade watching this person run a business, and every way

I knew I didn't want to run my business.

And that's the best education I could have ever gotten.

We were joking earlier, but there is some truth into him or the, he, she,

whomever it, whatever that person was being a master class in what not to do.

Yeah.

Ego.

I mean, it was just so

ego.

Yeah.

You, I've learned more about myself by learning who I'm

not.

Yes.

It's so important.

And if you just pay attention,

those are the best, the, the most.

Obvious lessons.

Yes.

If you, if you pay attention, those are the ones that hit home.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I also too, if you see yourself repeating cycles and phases and like,

Hey, I keep running into the same issue, it for me, it forces me to reflect on

like, what am I contributing to this?

I'm like, what role am I playing in it that makes this keep happening?

And then saying, Hmm.

Like let me try that differently the next time I get the opportunity.

And then seeing the result of that and you're just like, whoa, this is

cool.

Yeah.

I think it was Dan Levy from Schitt's Creek who said that

whenever he's talking they gas shit's

creek.

Whenever there he's in, in experiencing a conflict, he remembers his

mother and she said, listen, when you try to try to focus on what's wrong and then

focus on what your contributions were.

Yeah.

And then just take it

from there.

Yes.

Well, and 'cause you're never gonna be.

Guilt free.

And so it's easy to be the martyr or the victim

but as long as you're in that head space, you're not gonna grow

and you're not gonna improve.

Right?

And so I know exactly what I did to contribute to my firing.

And I also know that the person I was like, if I do have old coworkers

or people who knew me back then all I can say is, you don't know me now.

Like I have changed so much, , by force, by choice.

I mean, it's been a priority for the last, , 10 years.

, and see sometimes you don't immediately see the fruits of that work, and

it can be a little deterring.

But I just, anybody who, who this resonates with, it's like you just

have to keep on showing up in the way that feels authentic to you.

Yeah, I could not

agree more.

And I've, I've, from my own personal journey, I find that it is infinitely

easier to witness someone's stumble.

But you have to really be present to, to celebrate someone's evolution.

Yes.

That's interesting.

I love that.

I, I was gonna say like, it's cool hearing y'all's stories.

'cause for me, I feel like I am an observant person.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that might be why I am like quote unquote one of the good ones.

'cause I'm like watching everything good and like I know what I don't want to be.

Yeah.

And I know what I, that is a life lesson that we're carrying so far.

Wanna, yes.

Yeah.

And I don't, don't stop that.

Yeah.

That's huge.

I won't you be that you be you.

It also teaches you too though sometimes the things you

think you want to be, aren't it?

Because I, yeah.

When I opened this place, I wanted to be a millionaire.

I wanted to have a jillion and that stopped Instagram.

You don't wanna be a millionaire now.

Well, I mean, I don't wanna, I like, I don't wanna kill myself working and then

wake up at 60 with a fat bank account and no relationships or like happiness.

Yeah.

So I'd rather be poor and happy than rich and sad.

But in a perfect world, I'd be rich and happy, you know?

Well, why Or when you

can end, I'm gonna say this.

Lightly.

'cause there's a lot of stuff in my life going on in this regard, but I, I'm

a producer, not sure if anyone knows.

and she's 12 twice.

Thank you for

the clarity.

And I'm 12 twice.

, but I work with a lot of producers in the Atlanta area.

Mm-hmm.

And I, one, because I'm very young, I happen to be like smart,

which I think is why I've, uh, you are gotten places quicker.

Like, I, I truly have done some really cool stuff so far, which is crazy.

I can't believe I've done as much as I have right now.

And I'm proud of myself for that.

But there are people who so discount me because I'm young.

Mm-hmm.

And then also very much discount me because I'm a woman.

I was just about to ask.

Yep.

And the Atlanta independent film culture, very like, Film, bro.

Mm-hmm.

Male driven.

It's just, it's a whole vibe.

Cotui wearing.

Yeah.

Yes.

You don't, it's like you don't know it until you experience it.

And then once you experience it, it's just, you have a whole huge idea of what

the film industry is here in Atlanta.

Yeah.

Um, and I don't fit that mold ever good in any regard.

And I find you refreshing.

I don't see you.

Thank you.

In a lot of moles.

I mean, I think that I, I,

again, I'm, that's what is painful though.

Sometimes

I'm not known for my, because all people

wanna do is, but again, I think I, again, you are, you,

you're not a replica of anyone else.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I mean, and I love that.

But there are times where it is so, like I have gotten outed from jobs in many ways.

I've, I've tried to get in with some people and it doesn't happen because

they just don't necessarily like me.

Yeah.

But I know it's because I'm not like a film bro.

I think people sometimes don't know what to do with a

confident driven young woman.

They

call me sassy.

That's what they do.

Oh, right,

right.

When it's a woman, you're sassy or you're bitchy.

When it's a young man, you're a go getter.

An ambition driven.

Yes.

It's so.

Ridiculous.

And I absolutely was like that when I was young in my career.

Yeah.

I mean, I went in and I'm like, why do we do things this way?

Why do we do them like this?

This doesn't make any sense.

Yeah.

And I didn't know how I was unrefined.

Yeah.

And I've learned now I feel unrefined.

Yeah.

Well, and I do.

I do.

You're like, you know, a diamond under pressure.

And like with every year that you're in your career, you're gonna

learn, Hey, you know, I know the best way to get the result I want.

And maybe it's not the approach I would've thought, but if I want

this end goal, I will kind of navigate that however I need to.

Yeah.

And it's

just a learning also, at the end of the day, you want something very specific.

So why would you think you can find it in the old conventional ways of

getting there?

Mm-hmm.

That's what I was about to say, is I do feel like I am true.

Like there is not bending who I am, like I've tried, doesn't work.

Yeah, I bet others have too.

Miserably.

Yeah.

It's just, it's terrible.

But I find your whole story, Erica, very like inspiring because.

I wanna do my own thing in the Atlanta Independent film scene.

I wanna do narrative work.

A lot of my, peers in the industry only wanna do commercial work, and

it kind of leaves this lane for me.

Mm-hmm.

Which is really cool.

I'm working on my second feature this year, which is like absurd.

It'll get me into the P G A, which is, oh my god, Kelly a huge deal actually.

Can you play golf?

That's so funny.

I've actually never even, do you wanna tell our listeners what P g A

is?

Producers Guild of America, are you striking?

Not, I think you're very striking.

That's actually, the producers aren't striking and it's kind

of really problematic because everyone deserves their rights.

And I think I am pro strike.

Yes.

Nobody come for me.

It's true.

Yeah.

I've got several people in the, in the film

industry.

Oh yeah.

It's, it's tough right now, truly.

It is, absolutely.

But

And when you get the, you get the nanny all pissed

off, you've done something.

It's true.

But I'm trying to do my own thing is the point.

And so watching you do your own thing and like hearing your stories about you

doing your own thing is so cool to me.

And like the authenticity thing that you have.

That you don't necessarily wanna post all this shit on social media,

like to bring it back to marketing.

Yeah.

I also don't wanna be doing that.

Like, I'm not trying to see, it's hard to

make it two D.

Yeah.

Like how do you take something so expansive and and real and turn

it into a fucking Instagram post?

It's because

we're better in person.

Definitely agree.

I

think that, I think that part of your magic is the

intimacy and the one-on-one.

This is just a me too, nudge me that says, Hey, there's something out there

that you might want to get, get more of.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't think you, you, this is not the place you won't deliver this.

No one listening to this podcast will ever get how amazing you are and what

the experience is when I'm in the salon.

I mean, it really is top drawer.

I mean, it's fantastic.

I get

to, she's cutting my hair soon.

Oh yeah.

That for my wedding, pre wedding glow

up.

I listen to you too, ladies talk and I'm, I keep thinking about

my life and my, and how it parallels in my industry and there's, it, it's

just sad because so many people that came before you never had the choices

you have and are stuck where they are.

Yeah.

And they may not even know it.

And what I'm talking about is that in the, , in the eighties and the nineties,

I think women in my industry, in the multifamily real estate world, they, they

fought to get their place at the table.

And to do that, they became such cold, hard bitches.

Yeah.

Yep.

And as it, even, even as it changed.

They never learned another way.

Yeah.

And so you had from across the room when someone walks in

the door, you could almost see where they joined this industry.

Yeah.

You know, so

interesting.

That makes

sense because it's like, just wanna say,

just let it go there.

There is a level in, in my industry where sometimes, like, to be quite

frank, sometimes I'm like, I have to be a little bit of a bitch right now.

Yeah.

I

think one thing you have in your corner as the both of you ladies,

is that you are, you are articulate and you can deliver a message

without being a b i t, c, u and T.

You can say it in a clever way that's like, oh, oh, I get it now.

I try, but there, but there are times where it's like, no, now I have

to actually hammer, hammer this down.

Is did you not understand?

Yeah.

Like it, it comes to a point sometimes, especially on a film where It's

a pressure cooker on a film.

There is so much going on.

There's so much money involved and like I'm in charge of that.

And there's like so many dynamics when it comes to people being

angry about this random thing.

Somebody was a vegetarian and we happened to accidentally, accidentally

not get a vegetarian lunch.

And like, god forbid, like, you know what I say?

I'm just like, okay, I will pay for you to go get something else.

But there's so mad They're attached to, they're upset and yes.

And so there's so much pressure that it come, I've had to scream at people before.

I would love to see you

scream at someone.

I scream very nicely.

I do.

But there are times where I'm like, I'm not messing around.

I will fire you.

Yeah.

Like I can't, I I can't

handle it.

Yeah.

It's not up for debate.

Go get the veggie sandwich.

And, but it comes across like that, which I, I don't

feel like is bitchy actually.

Just direct on

myself and

if anyone ever ask, why are you, do you seem so angry?

Yes.

I'm angry that you made me behave this

way.

Yeah.

Because I didn't.

It's obviously your fault.

I'm a nice person.

I'm not trying to be all up your ass right now.

Yeah.

But you made this happen.

It's your fault.

Yeah.

I think people know too, like if you're default is to be

a warm and friendly person.

Yeah.

And they see a different side of you.

Mm-hmm.

If they know you well enough, you've built enough, you know, brand

awareness that people are like, yeah, something must have led her to this.

Or someone she doesn't.

Or someone.

Yes.

But you don't just like walk into a room unprovoked.

But where does that

brand awareness come from, Erica?

It comes from one-on-one conversations.

Mm.

You're correct.

Boom, boom, boom.

It comes from Clover Club.

I'm, this is the two-on-one, but whatever.

What else?

I'm just saying like, yeah, I do think that your verion to social media.

Is not as big of a deal as necessarily you consider it to

be fair.

And actually there is a niche for everything and there is a part or

a segment of your brand following that appreciates that, that have

had bad experiences on social media.

Like why do, why are you taking mother fella pictures

of your mother fella dinner?

I don't really care what you're having for meal.

That stuff.

Social media is, is is the pendulum swings both ways.

I do take

pictures of my dinner though.

I do too.

If it's a good

one.

Yeah,

because like I want people to look and be like, I'm jealous.

I guess the thing is I've seen

too many really bad dinner photos.

Oh, I people that have you keep you on speaker phone that walk through the,

the room and I'm like, it would be one thing if your conversation were remotely

interesting, but apparently it's not.

So now both of us have to listen to it.

Oh,

I hate that.

Um, I blame The Real Housewives.

Is that a real housewife thing?

I'm like, oh yeah, I don't, I'm not down

with that franchise.

They would keep it on speaker phone and keep it.

Six inches away from your head.

I'm like, just bring

it in.

Well, because they need the cameras to see, obviously bring it.

A producer told them that they had to Yes.

That's what happened.

That's what

that is.

, I will be fine if I die without ever seeing another, like half eaten plate

of food or if like a scraped clean plate and someone's like, who's terrible?

And I'm just like, ah, fucking

delete dope.

Wait, photos of half eaten food.

Oh yeah.

You know, people

like, it's like, I wanna see the carnage thing.

Yeah.

I don't wanna see like the moistness of your lips around the fork and some Alfredo

sauce.

I say phone eats first . Yes.

Because it's ugly if it doesn't.

Exactly.

And pretty food tastes better or pretty tastes better.

Phony.

Full last where it's nothing on the plate and you're like, O l Sorry.

Didn't get the photo.

It was too good.

See, I feel like that one doesn't get posted.

No, I've done that before.

Really?

Yeah.

Just

I don't want, I don't do it.

Okay.

Your shined is dimmed a little bit.

Yeah.

We found her crack.

You two are flawed.

I love it.

You, you might be human.

Maybe

Greg, do you, have you ever had any moments in your career where you had

a choice to choose a humorous path or a angry or defensive path and you've

chosen humor and it's benefited you?

I can think of several off the top of my head.

And at the end of the day, do you have that moment, that zero

moment, just like you were sharing?

It's like someone just declared you're, you're fired.

Mm-hmm.

And how do you, and then you try to calculate, how do I respond to this?

And at the end of the day, At the end of the day, I, I want to retain

as much character as I possibly can.

Yes.

And the quick, easy default for me is to make some humorous default out of that.

Mm-hmm.

Or, or, or escape from that, because I don't, I don't wanna be

a, I don't wanna be an asshole.

Yeah.

And if you see me be an asshole, you've done something to cause that.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.