Artwork for podcast Qiological Podcast
032.2 Passion For Practice and Community • Chad Bong
Episode 3218th May 2018 • Qiological Podcast • Michael Max
00:00:00 00:25:34

Shownotes

Chad Bong is one of the organizers of the Sports Acupuncture Alliance's conference. 

He's a busy guy, but we managed to grab a few minutes to talk about acupuncture, community and the inspiration and effort behind this conference. 

Transcripts

Michael Max:

Welcome to qiological.

Michael Max:

Mini-series dedicated to sports and orthopedic acupuncture for the

Michael Max:

next few days, I'll be bringing you several podcasts a day from

Michael Max:

the sports acupuncture alliances conference in San Jose, California.

Michael Max:

In addition to interviews and discussions with speakers of the

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conference, you'll also be hearing from participants and you'll have

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a special front row seat at a round table conversation around the issues,

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running a sports medicine practice.

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The sports acupuncture Alliance was created to promote the study and practice

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of sports and orthopedic acupuncture.

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I'm delighted that they were willing to partner with qiological to bring

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you this mini series so that those of you who are not able to attend

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the conference could learn from the speakers as well as the participants,

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and to get a taste of what it's like to be here at this special event.

Michael Max:

Please enjoy these discussions and take what you learn here

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and use it in your clinic.

Michael Max:

Well, it's been really fun here at the sports acupuncture alliances conference.

Michael Max:

There are so many wickedly smart people that are here.

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Learning more about the stuff that we all want to know about.

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I E helping our patients and more importantly, fantastic conversations going

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on in the hallway is going on at lunch.

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Uh, people really sharing, uh, their questions, their insights.

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It's pretty cool.

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And the guy that we have to thank for this is a dude named Chad.

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He is the, uh, kind of instigating force behind this with his

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team of Mary pranksters.

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And I've got him buttonholed here, uh, by the stairwell and ah,

Michael Max:

Chad, welcome to qiological man.

Michael Max:

Thank you, Michael.

Michael Max:

It's great to have you here, so great to have you too.

Michael Max:

And thanks for coming by the way.

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Thank you for making the opportunity.

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Cause this is, this is such a cool thing.

Michael Max:

Well, you know, I know you're a busy acupuncturist.

Michael Max:

You're a family man.

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You got to practice, right.

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Wha w number one, where do you get time to do, I guess more than

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where do you get time to do it?

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Cause we always find time to do it's important.

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What instigated you into doing this conference?

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I mean, Whitfield Reaves.

Michael Max:

So I'll refer to him as wit from now on, uh, my mentor.

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So studied with him for years and he had run.

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Uh, he had helped found an organization in the nineties called the national

Michael Max:

sports acupuncture association.

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And.

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It ran for a while and then due to some circumstances and

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ended up, um, ceasing to exist.

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But, uh, we had talked about kind of resurrecting it for years.

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Um, we were kind of hoping somebody else would do it basically.

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Um, and that's just never happened.

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Uh, and then I was in, uh, Santa Fe helping him teach, uh, a weekend

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and I met Catherine Ford there.

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And she ends up being one of the people who help motivate me to start this.

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But at the time when I kind of decided a podcast might be a good idea to

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kind of start reaching out to people.

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So, and you've got a podcast and yeah, I mean, you're also a

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pocket, you know, in addition to everything else, you also have.

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We have a podcast it's very, you know, specific to sports acupuncture,

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uh, called pinpoint performance and.

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Doing the podcast.

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And on that podcast, the first episode, Whitten, I've talked about this

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organization that he used to have and how interesting it would be to, you

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know, restart something like that.

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And then, uh, basically Catherine started bugging me about actually doing it.

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I was like, uh, I'm not sure.

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I actually wanted to do that.

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If it was just a good idea, hoping somebody else would do it.

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Someone should pick this up and run with it.

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And then, um, Michelle.

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I hope I said that right.

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Was a student of mine at tri-state and she at this right around the

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same time, it was basically like, Hey Chad, can I help you do something?

Michael Max:

Uh, as far as like a project for acupuncture stuff.

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And I was basically, I guess I'm starting to develop enough of a team that sure.

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Let's try to do this thing.

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And then Alex , who helps me with the podcast.

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It was a student of mine at the wan Institute in Philadelphia.

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I basically told him he was part of it.

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He didn't really have a choice.

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So that was my team.

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And we just started working from there.

Michael Max:

It took, it took us quite a while before we got the first

Michael Max:

one going, how long did it take.

Michael Max:

Putting this together in 2015, um, our first conference was in

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2017 and now we're on our second one here in San Jose this year.

Michael Max:

It seems like the beginning is always the hardest part.

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There's so much to do.

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There's all these unanswered questions, all these unknowns

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you're like work and work and work.

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And is this thing ever going to come to fruition?

Michael Max:

Yeah.

Michael Max:

And we're just making it up as we went, like, what do we need to do next?

Michael Max:

Oh, let's, uh, let's get a logo.

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You know, what do we want to call this phone?

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You know?

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And just things that took a lot of time and, you know, my team has been great

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where they're putting in a lot more effort than they are getting compensation for

Michael Max:

it other than helping the profession.

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So, yeah.

Michael Max:

My suspicion is for people that do this kind of thing.

Michael Max:

Part of our compensation is not just the money that goes in our pocket, but

Michael Max:

exactly what we see happening in our profession, that we see people being able

Michael Max:

to do things better, that they've got new ideas that they're talking to each

Michael Max:

other, that there's a sense of community that patients end up with better care.

Michael Max:

I mean, that's what this is all about, right?

Michael Max:

This is.

Michael Max:

Improving our profession, bringing our profession together is a big part of this.

Michael Max:

The, so tell me more about that part to bring in the profession together.

Michael Max:

Think it's super important in that, you know, we don't have these super

Michael Max:

strong national level organizations where everybody's involved in it.

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We didn't, you know, in the state organizations have a tough time getting

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everybody to contribute and be part of it.

Michael Max:

I just want to be part of making a stronger bond amongst all of the

Michael Max:

acupuncturists and helping to, I think if we all like know each other and are

Michael Max:

bonded together and I think we we're willing to fight for each other a little

Michael Max:

bit more, and I think that'll help our profession in the, in the long run.

Michael Max:

So I just want to see us all come together.

Michael Max:

I didn't think this was going to go into a political trend, but anyway, here we are.

Michael Max:

So I'll just throw it out there often.

Michael Max:

It seems like we focus on our differences at the expense of how

Michael Max:

we're similar, you know, it's almost like there's turf wars between us.

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And so instead of coming together here, we've all got a similar set of

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tools that we use to help people with.

Michael Max:

Oh yeah.

Michael Max:

I mean, I think it's silly that we, you know, argue about like this

Michael Max:

style working better than that style, or you need to do this and that

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won't work and things like that.

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I think.

Michael Max:

I think we need to come together as a group and we need to band together

Michael Max:

and be a strong group of people.

Michael Max:

And I don't know if acupuncturists in general are, are exceptional at that

Michael Max:

particular thing, but I would like to, you know, I'd like to get people together.

Michael Max:

So I can't remember who it was that I talked to because I've talked to

Michael Max:

so many people here this morning, but somebody said something to

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the effect of we work with and treat people out of the perceptual

Michael Max:

framework that we ourselves have.

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Which makes, which makes a lot of sense.

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And, and, and then, and then, you know, we're having this conversation

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talking about getting people together.

Michael Max:

I was sitting at lunch today and I hear this and I hear someone else say

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something to the effect of, you know, there's people that do this, like

Michael Max:

really soft, like just barely hands-on or tell you harsh kinds of stuff.

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They get good results.

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You get these other people that use a strong stimulation.

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They get good results.

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I mean, this is something that we've heard in our profession.

Michael Max:

Right.

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And it occurred to me that thing that I had heard earlier today,

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we work out of our own perception.

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I also think we attract people who are interested in the way we work.

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So I think I bring in a certain patient to my office because of the

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way I work and because of the way I think, and you know, some of them.

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My patients wouldn't want to go see another type of acupuncturist and

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the people who are going to see that other type of acupuncturist certainly

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wouldn't want to come and see me.

Michael Max:

So I think, you know, we all have our, our attraction.

Michael Max:

We attract a certain type of people, and I think we need lots of types of people.

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To keep acupuncture strong.

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I mean, I think if we all did the same thing, we just have a very

Michael Max:

small niche piece of the world here.

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And I think if we're all doing different things, I think we can get

Michael Max:

a lot of people treating a lot of patients that makes a lot of sense.

Michael Max:

And plus the opportunity to learn something new about what we do

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from someone with a whole different mindset than what we have, you know,

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I mean, I know, I know for myself, I've run into things in clinic.

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I just can't seem to get it and I'll end up thinking, oh, I guess acupuncture

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doesn't treat that when the truth of the matter is you might, I care.

Michael Max:

That's exactly.

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So.

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Last week I referred four patients to other acupuncturist.

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I just, people, you know, somebody call me with a graves' disease and I was

Michael Max:

in, they were like, can you help me?

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And I said, no, uh, but I know somebody who probably can and I gave them.

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Names of a couple of acupuncturists that I think would do an exceptional

Michael Max:

job at that particular thing.

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And you know, those acupuncturists called me and were like, Hey, thanks.

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You know, and I think it's a great way to build your network is sending people who.

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Don't necessarily have the skills for having had success

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with, to another patient.

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And, you know, I have a lot of acupuncturist who refer me

Michael Max:

patients because of that, you know, cooperative relationship.

Michael Max:

I think it's really important.

Michael Max:

I absolutely agree.

Michael Max:

Um, I like to switch the topic just a little bit or, you know, you're, you're

Michael Max:

very involved in, I'm using air quotes here, sports acupuncture world right here.

Michael Max:

You're kind of the man.

Chad Bong:

I don't know about that, but I'm involved.

Chad Bong:

Yes.

Chad Bong:

You're involved.

Chad Bong:

You're involved in there's.

Chad Bong:

Oh my goodness.

Chad Bong:

There's so many people that are lit up about this.

Chad Bong:

What are some of the trends that you're seeing with sports and

Chad Bong:

orthopedic acupuncturist or anything?

Chad Bong:

That's kind of like, well, like, like you're here in interesting

Chad Bong:

now, but anything on the horizon that's kinda got your attention.

Chad Bong:

Um, I'm not sure.

Chad Bong:

Um, I think just the rise of.

Chad Bong:

Sports orthopedic, you know, anatomy based kind of acupuncture is really interesting.

Chad Bong:

But with that said, I don't want to see acupuncture go to just being

Chad Bong:

like orthopedic kind of thing.

Chad Bong:

You know, Matt Callis and I were just sitting down at lunch talking and,

Chad Bong:

and we were talking about programs that just weren't necessarily

Chad Bong:

involving the traditional stuff.

Chad Bong:

You know, the, you know, traditional point stuff and how important it is to keep.

Chad Bong:

That stuff in the medicine so that we don't want to lose it.

Chad Bong:

So hopefully that the thing is moving towards understanding orthopedic

Chad Bong:

stuff, but still incorporating all the traditional stuff.

Chad Bong:

The thing I do see coming up a lot right now, and people talking

Chad Bong:

about it a lot is tending on muscularity ans dinging or gin, gin.

Chad Bong:

It seems to be a really hot topic right now with the

Chad Bong:

fascia kind of things going on.

Chad Bong:

And so I'd say the two hot topics are fascia and tendon or muscular

Chad Bong:

meridians, two aspects of the same thing.

Chad Bong:

What, what is your sense of working with the fascia and

Chad Bong:

the team chant as this point?

Chad Bong:

Is

Chad Bong:

this, uh, a piece of what you're doing is, is this an inquiry of yours?

Chad Bong:

Uh, this is a piece I'm trying to learn.

Chad Bong:

I'm trying to learn with people like, well, Anthony Vanderman was here.

Chad Bong:

Teaching this kind of stuff.

Chad Bong:

So I want to do more stuff with him.

Chad Bong:

I did an interview with Mary Rowe gal out of Illinois.

Chad Bong:

And you know, this is the kind of stuff she's talking about.

Chad Bong:

And I have a, a lead on somebody.

Chad Bong:

Who's doing some really interesting stuff in, uh, New Jersey with Jim Johnston.

Chad Bong:

And Brian Lau, I'm trying to secure an interview with, and you know, there

Chad Bong:

there's people out there doing it.

Chad Bong:

And I want to, I want to track these people down and learn from them and see

Chad Bong:

what I can incorporate into my practice.

Chad Bong:

I was talking with Anthony earlier, earlier, and one of the things that

Chad Bong:

was that it kind of blew my mind.

Chad Bong:

And it's, I guess this is a self confession moment, right?

Chad Bong:

I've been doing this for about 20 years.

Chad Bong:

And for some reason, I've had this idea in my mind that that's

Chad Bong:

a sinew channels through these like super superficial channels.

Chad Bong:

And yes, they're helpful for tendon and muscular issue.

Chad Bong:

But I somehow just thought of them as superficial in a way I, you know,

Chad Bong:

it was just, it was like a, in some ways that's how they're taught.

Chad Bong:

Exactly.

Chad Bong:

And then in talking to Anthony and he pointed it out and I mean, all

Chad Bong:

I've got to do is looking at it.

Chad Bong:

And when Adam he's book and you look at like, we're certain fascia and

Chad Bong:

senior planes are planes, are they go deep, deep, deep into the body?

Chad Bong:

There are some, not all but many that too well on the fascia, you know, some people.

Chad Bong:

You're talking about how a lot of acupuncture points lands on

Chad Bong:

points, where fascia dips into the muscles a little bit more like the

Chad Bong:

deeper veins of fascia in the body.

Chad Bong:

So maybe that's part of the.

Chad Bong:

They conduct electricity a little differently than the rest of the body.

Chad Bong:

So maybe that's part of how all this stuff is working.

Chad Bong:

I don't know.

Chad Bong:

I'm just trying to learn all this stuff.

Chad Bong:

It's a little bit mysterious.

Chad Bong:

I mean, I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm learning again.

Chad Bong:

I've been now that I've included into, oh, you can think of.

Chad Bong:

The fascia and think about the tenderness sensuous material in this whole other way.

Chad Bong:

It's very exciting.

Chad Bong:

I mean, wit definitely uses this, but he uses it in a very different

Chad Bong:

way than say Anthony or whatever.

Chad Bong:

So I think there's multiple ways to access this.

Chad Bong:

And I think spending some time to learn what you can accomplish with

Chad Bong:

them is, would be very interest.

Chad Bong:

So we're going to need to get back to what's going on here in just a couple

Chad Bong:

of minutes and, um, you know, in the conversations that we've been having for

Chad Bong:

months now, because you know, there's a lot of planning that goes into this.

Chad Bong:

I keep hearing you talk about community and I keep hearing you

Chad Bong:

talk about people sort of working together and kind of riffing off each

Chad Bong:

other and just, you know, it's kind of bumping up against each other.

Chad Bong:

And something happens to sense of something that can

Chad Bong:

arise out of a community.

Chad Bong:

And, um, Certainly you're talking about it here in the acupuncture world, but

Chad Bong:

where do you get this idea of community?

Chad Bong:

Is this come from some other places or is it just something that you've

Chad Bong:

seen, you know, within our profession or is there some other inspiration

Chad Bong:

you've got, I'm sure there's lots of inspirations, but part of it is I like

Chad Bong:

to watch documentaries and one kind of theme I see in a lot of documentaries.

Chad Bong:

You know, when they're talking about one person who made it or one band who

Chad Bong:

made it or something like that, there's always a time in this documentary

Chad Bong:

where there's a whole bunch of people sitting in a room doing something

Chad Bong:

we'll, we'll keep on the band music band kind of thing, where there's a

Chad Bong:

bunch of people sitting in a studio, like putting things together and then.

Chad Bong:

Those people end up being some of the great minds of that generation.

Chad Bong:

And they all happen to be sitting in the same room, working on these

Chad Bong:

projects together when they're young and throwing around great ideas.

Chad Bong:

And from these great ideas, you know, spawns this exceptional music.

Chad Bong:

And I would like to see some of that happen here.

Chad Bong:

So.

Chad Bong:

You know, people are just connecting here.

Chad Bong:

So like we have somebody who's specialist, you know, like is all about concussions.

Chad Bong:

And we have people who work for NFL football teams and connecting

Chad Bong:

them to try to help some of these guys, you know, not have, you know,

Chad Bong:

brain problems when they're 50.

Chad Bong:

Uh, you know, I think as an exceptional thing, and I think it'd

Chad Bong:

be great for our profession, that we can reach those kinds of Heights.

Chad Bong:

And if those two people never get connected, then you know, maybe somebody

Chad Bong:

has problems later on that what could have been, that could have, or would

Chad Bong:

have been solved from them two meetings.

Chad Bong:

So I want to bring a lot of those kinds of people together and great minds,

Chad Bong:

you know, to create some great things.

Chad Bong:

You know, we saw this in like, The 20th in Paris, right?

Chad Bong:

Where you have all these artists and poets and painters and Renaissance,

Chad Bong:

and it's just like hanging and then something gets catalyzed.

Chad Bong:

Yeah, 20 years later, there's brilliance.

Chad Bong:

Yeah, occasionally you put like two or five or 10 great minds together

Chad Bong:

and there's leaps, you know, and there's exceptional things that happen.

Chad Bong:

And if those two people or five people never got together,

Chad Bong:

maybe that leap never happens.

Chad Bong:

Well, curious to see what the spawns 10 years down the road.

Chad Bong:

Hey Chad, thank you.

Chad Bong:

First of all, for putting together this fantastic event and for grabbing a few

Chad Bong:

minutes out of your busy day to have it.

Chad Bong:

No problem.

Chad Bong:

And, uh, I just want to say thank you to, to Catherine, Alex and Michelle

Chad Bong:

for just being exceptional at helping me put this thing together definitely

Chad Bong:

would never happen without the three of them and the people around them as well.

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