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Preventing Future Burnout with Guest Johanna Hribal
Episode 3929th July 2024 • Wealth Witches • Katelyn Magnuson
00:00:00 00:52:28

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In this episode of the Wealth Witches Podcast, host Katelyn Magnuson is joined by the inspiring Johanna Hribal, a former educator turned burnout prevention coach. The conversation delves into Johanna's personal journey from experiencing severe burnout as a public school teacher and photographer to creating a balanced and fulfilling career.

Johanna introduces her program, designed to help photographers and other business owners prevent future burnout by managing their workloads and setting intentional goals. She shares practical strategies for achieving a healthier work-life balance, the importance of setting boundaries, and how to maintain mental health while running a business.

Katelyn and Johanna also discuss the challenges of burnout in high-stress industries, ways to diversify income streams, and the significance of knowing your numbers to create stability. Whether you're a business owner struggling with burnout or looking to prevent it, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice for creating a more sustainable and fulfilling professional life.

Key Takeaways

  • Recognizing and addressing the early signs of burnout.
  • The importance of setting boundaries to maintain a healthy work-life balance.
  • Knowing your financial needs to plan effectively and avoid burnout.
  • Diversifying income streams for greater stability in business.
  • Prioritizing self-care and outsourcing tasks to reduce stress and improve well-being.

Guest Bio:

Johanna Hribal is a former burned-out educator turned educator on burnout. After experiencing two consecutive years of burnout while working as a full-time public school teacher and photographer, her mental health suffered greatly. In less than a year, she paid off her debt, saved for an emergency fund, and left teaching to pursue photography full-time. Over the past two years, she has consistently booked clients without overbooking, leading to the creation of her 6-week course, Balance Not Burnout, which helps photographers prevent burnout and achieve a healthier work-life balance.

Connect with Johanna:

Instagram: @balancenotburnoutphotographers

Program: Momentum

Listeners who mention this podcast can save $400 on my group coaching program for photographers, Momentum with code WITCHES. Offer expires 12/31/24.

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Music credit: Neon Fairies by Wolves

Transcripts

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Hello, and welcome magical creatures to the Wealth Witches podcast.

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This is a place where we brew up financial empowerment and mix in a little

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sprinkle of magic. I'm Caitlin Magnuson, your guide on this

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enchanted journey to financial enlightenment. Here, we honor all

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identities and invoke our inner witches to create holistic wealth and prosperity.

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So grab your crystals, open your minds, and let's get ready to conjure some

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financial clarity clarity.

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Welcome back to the Wealth Witches podcast. Today, we

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have Johanna Riebel. She is a guest that I'm

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so incredibly excited for. She's a formerly burned out

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educator turned educator on burnout. After experiencing 2

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consecutive years of burnout while working as a full time public school teacher and a

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full time photographer, her mental health suffered greatly, and she was

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at her most unhappy. She decided she couldn't continue to live this

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way, so in less than a year, she paid off her debt, saved up for

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an emergency fund, and left her teaching career to pursue photography full

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time. In the last 2 years, she's found a way to be fully booked each

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month consistently without overbooking in any particular season.

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This led to the creation of her 6 week course, balance not burnout,

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which helps photographers to prevent future burnout, create a healthier work life

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balance, and ultimately enjoy a more fulfilling life both within and outside

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of their businesses. Joanna, thank you so much for

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being here. I know I found you on Instagram and I was like, we need

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to have a chat because in the accounting profession and I think so

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many professions, photography with the wedding industry, we're seeing so

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much burnout, so much seasonality, that roller coaster

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that you were talking about of just, like, up and down. And when I'm

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busy, when I have money, when this comes through, like, what do I do in

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the off season? So thank you for being here. I'm really excited to have this

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chat today. Yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me, Caitlin. And

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I definitely since I created this account and this course, balance not

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burnout, although it's targeted towards wedding industry, photographers specifically,

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so many of my friends and other peers in my community who are business owners

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have told me how much they relate to it. And burnout is something

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that, especially in America, all of us have experienced at one

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point or another. And for a lot of industries, like the wedding industry or like

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you were saying, financial industries, there are definitely those seasons of

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burnout that everybody goes through, and it's very difficult for

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people. So I feel really passionate about helping people find more stability

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so they can enjoy their life outside of their business.

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Because I think most of us got into business to actually have it support our

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lives and not let our businesses run our lives. So I think that's so

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easy to get caught up in the loop of not remembering

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that's why we did it. Mhmm. We're not Absolutely. Yeah. We're

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like, I yeah. We're like, I created a business, so I don't have to be

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working 247, and then we end up working even more than that, and

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we're more stressed than we were working for someone else. So, absolutely,

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I resonate with that. Oh, I

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the last what? 4 years now? Yeah. We're going on

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almost 4 years since since the pandemic. Right? And we had all of those years

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of, oh, this isn't normal. This is the, you know, this is what it is.

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The name here is the this is the that. And then we hit this here.

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And it's like, oh, is this gonna be are we back to normal? And I

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think normal is looking so different for a lot of us because we've gone through

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the wedding boom, the feast and famine to the

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absolute extreme over the last couple of years.

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And I think it's made a lot of us realize that we're craving more

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income stability. We're craving more stability in our lives.

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And I would love to chat with you about what that

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looks like and how we can be creating more of that and

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getting getting out of that cycle of the busy versus slow

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season, the feast and the famine, and that roller coaster.

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Absolutely. Yeah. Let's dive into it. Wonderful. So I

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know, like I said, I think we were talking before this, but I relate so

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much to a lot of wedding industry professional because we have our own seasonality. We

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have our own feast and famine and both cash flow wise and work wise. And

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so there's a lot that we've done behind the scenes to even that out because

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I don't think that that's good for nervous system regulation and for

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growing a team and having because payroll's consistent. So cash flow,

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if they're inconsistent. And, like, builder, I'm, like, consistent. So if you have this cash

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flow, like, how are we working to

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even that out, to distribute it, to feel comfortable

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with what we're doing in our work, and to take control instead of

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feeling like we're falling victim to the whims of

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client bookings. So what have you done,

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Johanna, on your side to do that in your business?

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So, yes, I love that analogy of, like, we feel like we're the victim of

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this burnout cycle of wait. I like to call it a roller coaster of

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burnout. We're like, oh, this is just how the industry is. This is the busy

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season, and this is the dead season. So a lot of wedding industry

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professionals and other people have seasonal type of careers. They will have

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a a period of several months where you're slowly and very quickly

Speaker:

increasing how many clients you're taking on. You get to a point where your

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mental health is suffering. You're so exhausted. You're working all the time, and you're just

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so drained that I've seen people leave their industries because of the

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burnout. And then you have this dead period of anywhere from

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2 to 6 months where you don't know if you're gonna be able to pay

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your bills. So most people are depending on that, roller coaster on the

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uphill to make all the money they need for the slow season. But what

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happens is your mental health and your energy is so drained because

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you're overbooking that if you weren't doing that, you could be

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planning ahead and strategizing for a more stable income in the slow

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season. So the first thing that I did was I figured out

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how much money did I need to make to cover my cost of doing business

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and my personal expenses and pay myself each month. And then

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I looked at the numbers of, for me as a wedding photographer, I do a

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combination of wedding photography and other types of portraits. So I said,

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how many weddings do I need to book each month and how many sessions each

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month to be able to meet this number? And I kind of have my

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number the number that I would like to pay myself, which is kind of more

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of my goal. And figuring out what that is each and every

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month, first of all, is a huge relief because instead of

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saying, I need to book a wedding every single weekend and

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some, some months I need to book 2 weddings a weekend to be able

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to survive through the winter. I can say, okay. I can

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book 2 weddings per month, which means I have 2 weekends free for

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myself to enjoy and rest and recover.

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And then I need to book this many sessions to meet that monthly

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income. It is a huge drop in the number of clients that you need to

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take on. And when you actually look at the numbers of you know, if you

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have proper pricing and everything, it's a lot less than what

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most people take on. But most people, I think the first mistake is

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that they don't actually have a monthly income goal. So that's the

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first thing that in the course I help people to determine. What is your monthly

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income needs and goals? What does that translate to as far

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as bookings? And a lot of people find that it's so easy

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to hit that goal every month where they don't have to be on this

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roller coaster. They are in control. I like to give them a new visual of,

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taking a little ride on a canoe where you are in control of the

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oars. You might have a little wake from a little speedboat every once in a

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while, but you are in control of that canoe of where it's going.

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It's relatively smooth and steady throughout the entire year instead of

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a roller coaster where you can kinda see the the whole coaster from

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the outside before you get on the ride, but you don't know where those ups

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and downs and loop the loops will be and how bad it will hurt your

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neck afterwards. Right? So that's kinda the first

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step is to really know your numbers, start to plan

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more intentionally, book more intentionally. And then from there,

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you can start to get yourself off of that roller coaster. I

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knew we would get along great. One of my favorite things is to say know

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your numbers because it's so easy to I think

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especially in the wedding vendor industry, just put

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blinders on. Right? And, like, dive in, and you're doing the work, and you're mired

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in it. And you're like, well, I'm able to pay the bills, so it's fine

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for now. Abs Are you are you overworking? Are you

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balancing? Are you paying attention to what you actually need to be doing

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instead of just, like, it's fine. It's fine until it's not. And then

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everything feels like it's crumbling. Right. And here's the thing that

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it's hard for us to turn away money, especially when a lot of women,

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especially in the industry are or women in general who are small business

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owners are sometimes the primary caretaker or financial support of

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their family. And so when somebody's offering you money and

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you look at your calendar and you say, well, technically, I have this day open.

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I don't have anything going on. Or, sure, I could use an extra couple 100

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thou or a couple $1,000. Just pull off a couple extra yeah. A

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couple extra 100. But, yeah, I could use a couple extra

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$1,000 this weekend if I just take on this one extra wedding, but 1

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becomes 2, 2 becomes 3, and we don't have a

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boundary of saying no. That's how so many of us get into that. So,

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yeah, knowing your numbers and being clear on that and knowing that your pricing is

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gonna support you allows you to say

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no with confidence and know that you still have income coming

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in, that you're gonna feed your family. You're still gonna have enough money to do

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the things that you love. No. I think that that's so important. I know that

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I found myself doing that too where it's like, oh, but are you in a

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turn away? Didn't you set the boundary that you're no longer accepting new tax

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clients? You're no longer accepting x y z. And then they pop in, and it's

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like, oh, but we could. But are we gonna regret

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it? Are we Right. Then be, you know, working overtime or

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working outside of the hours that we wanna be working or sacrificing time with our

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families or time with ourselves? And, honestly, that one's the most important for

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me is I think so many of us, especially women,

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tend to not set aside the time for ourselves. You know, we'll we'll do something.

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We'll prioritize our family. We'll we'll prioritize our spouse. We'll prioritize something.

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Where are we prioritizing ourselves in all of that as well? Because it's

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so easy. I know that everyone's like, you can't pour from an empty cup, but

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I also think that, like, you deserve to have a full cup just for yourself,

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not to be able to be a value to someone else outside. Like,

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that's an added bonus, but, like, you should be valuable to yourself. You should

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be nourished, fulfilled, and

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able to confidently stand with those boundaries. And like you said, I think

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knowing your numbers is such an important piece of that. Because if you don't,

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it's going to let you just continue to spin. Right? And

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whereas you said, roller coaster and not know what's coming, and so you don't know

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what's gonna be the next step. So, like, maybe you do have to take this.

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So what in your experience of when it comes to the

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seasonality side of things and being on that roller coaster, So

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you're, like, you're working in, photography sessions or portrait

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sessions outside of weddings. So that's something that can be more year

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round depending on where you're at and depending on whether other

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factors that come in. What other things

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can photographers be doing, or other business owners listening to this,

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to help stabilize their income and stabilize

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their lives and their workflow throughout the year? So

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there are so many ways. This is also something I talk about in my 6

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week course, balance not burnout for photographers. So I'll I

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spend a lot of time talking about diversifying your income. So for

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me, I do wedding photography primarily, so

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there's seasons for that. But then during the winter, typically, that's when it's a little

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bit slower. That's when I work with a lot of small businesses. I do product

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photography, food photography. Throughout the spring and fall. I

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do senior photography. And in the winter, I'm more open

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to doing work that I don't typically take on, like family photography,

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maternity. Although, typically, I work with past clients for that. But if I

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do get the occasional inquiry in the winter and I'm a little bit slower, then

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I'm happy to take that on again because I have the space for it. And

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it's not that I'm not putting it on top of an already full schedule

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and doing things that I normally would turn away. So it's

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about looking at how you can diversify your income, planning ahead for

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those highs and lows if you know that you have months

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that are gonna be slower. I've helped my clients in the past, my

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course students, to plan mini sessions ahead of those slow

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seasons. They already have everything prepared. And when they get there, they already have

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clients booked, and they know they're gonna make money. And so during the

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busy season, they feel a sense of relief that they don't have to

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be taking on every single person who reaches out last minute in the

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fall. And I also teach my clients that you can

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actually generate more revenue in your business by working

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by continuing to work with your past clients than by

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acquiring new clients. So if you reach out to your past clients

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I've had so many couples who have done their engagement photos, wedding photos. They've

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asked me if I do maternity photos, newborn family sessions.

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It is so great to continue that relationship and

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provide more value to them in the future. They already know,

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like, and trust you, and it's so easy to make that sale.

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Especially, a lot of times, they come to you. So that's what I encourage

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clients to do is find ways to nurture your relationships with your

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past clients and not just from a point of

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I'm just trying to make more money off of you. Doing it out of out

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of a place of integrity, especially when it's like your dream clients, people that

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you so enjoyed working with. And after their wedding day, you're like, I wish I

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could just keep working with them. And the great news is that you can. There's

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always an opportunity. So, you know, those are two aspects of what I teach

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in the course that are relatively easy. It doesn't cost

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a lot of, you know, paying for ads or anything. It's just nurturing

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relationships. Absolutely. No. I think that we're a

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referral based business. And not only between referrals from clients that

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we absolutely adore, but continuing to work with clients. Because I think it's so

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easy if you're a wedding photographer to look at and be

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like, okay. Wedding's done. Like, that chapter is closed.

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And if you're there's so

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much less effort, I think. Mhmm. And you

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even said that need is needed to be put in, that when you

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can like, I love I love so many of

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our clients. And we've had clients leave because they've had

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something change in their business. Mhmm. That has nothing to do with us.

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We've kept in touch because I still like them as human beings. Yeah. You know

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how many times they'll refer someone to us? They'll come back when their needs

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have changed? Like, because we're being a human being

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and we're Mhmm. Existing and we're not nurturing for the future sale, but we're

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nurturing because we truly enjoy them and

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it's just such an amazing way to have a community that supports you

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And I know, having worked with a lot of photographers over the years

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for my brand and for personal and for wedding and all of that, it's so

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nice to have someone that you trust, that you know, that knows you, that

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can follow along, you know, as, like, through the different stages of your life. Like,

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what a no brainer. Yes. And, going back a

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little bit to the scaling and creating more stability, it's so much

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easier to nurture those relationships when you have, let's say, 10

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clients a month versus 30 clients. And some of those people

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you may have just taken on last minute because you're like, sure. What's an extra

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$500? What's an extra $2,000? And you're just trying to

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make the sale. And so when you're just focused on, I just I'm gonna say

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yes because I have a hard time saying no or because it's extra money

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and why not, then there's not as much of a chance for you to

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nurture because you weren't booking that intentionally. And so,

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yeah, when you are booking intentionally with your clients, you're really trying to make sure

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you're the right fit for them, then you do have the opportunity to continue

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to nurture. And when you have a more limited amount of clients each month, it's

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so much easier to nurture because you're focusing your attention on a smaller

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quantity of people. Absolutely. I think that

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something that can be challenging and I know that I went through this evolution in

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my business from taking on anyone that wanted to work

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with me in the very beginning stages. Right? Whether they were the right sit, whether

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they were in our like, in the services that we offer, whether we were making

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all these custom things. It was just it was exhausting, But you're getting

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going. You're figuring out what you're doing. It was a really difficult

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transition for a while, and I'd love your thoughts on this, but it was difficult

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to stand in first, to identify the boundaries. Mhmm.

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What I wanted, who I wanted to work with, what I wanted in my personal

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and professional life, how those were supported, and then to

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stick to it. And it can still be a little bit scary every now and

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then. Right? Because I have July November are 2 slowest month of the company.

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I know it. I put a reminder on my calendar. I planned I have things

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during those times, whether it's downtime, revamping, courses. Like, there are things that I do

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that I love. Mhmm. But it still freaks me out. And I've been in business

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for 9 years now. And it's it's easy to

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go. Oh, no. Do I wanna take on x y z client? Like,

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because there it feels like the universe is, like, testing you during those times.

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Right? Hey. Here's this carrot of a client. Like, but I don't wanna work it.

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But it's but should I? But it's money. So, like, how

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I have my own method, for this madness. But how do

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you recommend that someone, like, a, set those boundaries or

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those parameters, and then, b, like, stands within them when things can be a little

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bit scary or things can feel a little bit scarce? Yeah.

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That's a great question. So I'll tell you as far as sticking to your

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boundaries. For me, when I left my teaching business and I started, you

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know, going full time with photography, I wanted to have one day a week that

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I committed to as a day off, and that was the hardest

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thing for me to do. It probably took me several months to actually take an

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entire day off without opening my inbox, without getting on my

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computer, without working. So being flexible with yourself, making

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small steps towards progress. And in those slow months,

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you can be intentional about what you're doing. Even though it might be

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slower, you can take advantage of that, and maybe that's the month that you go

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on vacation. If every single July is slow, that's when you take a

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month long vacation. And maybe you can also

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be flexible with yourself. Right? Because if you're on that smooth sailing

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canoe, there's gonna be occasional ebbs and flows, but it's not gonna be

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extreme. So you might say, okay. Well, July November are

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2 slow months. So how can I split the client load that I would

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take on in those months and distribute them evenly throughout the other

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months? Or how can I add on something throughout the

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year or plan ahead for these months, offer something special that

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I don't offer throughout the rest of the year? And so, again, when you have

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a more even schedule throughout the year, you have the time, energy, and space to

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create that versus if you're spending 6 months of the year pushing

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yourself to your limit and then afterwards, you spend 6 months recovering, you

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have no time to strategize for that. So so, yeah, being flexible with yourself

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as you adjust to a new, kind of flow and rhythm in your

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business and looking ahead and planning. If you know that you

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have certain slow months throughout the year, try to plan something out of the ordinary

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that your clients would go for or, you know, find another

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way to take advantage of that slow month by taking a vacation or doing something

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for yourself. I love that so much. I don't I

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I actually vacation in May and take that time off, but I love using

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July for revamp of everything.

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Mhmm. But I think that I think both of those

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options are fantastic. Like, a, what are you offering that you could be offering?

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B, what can you do that's special for yourself? Where can you, like, nurture? Where

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can you take we what was it?

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Right around Labor Day. We have other deadlines, so that we, as a team, can't

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take some time off during then, but all of our clients almost exclusively go

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radio silent for, like, a 10 day window.

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And what should happen? We can get the most work done

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of, like, the entire year in that 10 day window, and it's always a little

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bit disconcerting. Okay. What's going on? But I think everyone's, like, wrapping up

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summer or school starting. Like, there's all these factors, and I think it's really easy

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to to tell ourselves these stories. Right? Right. About what's going

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on. And same thing with, like, small month, same thing with seasonality. Like, there's all

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of these stories that we tell. And one of the things that I love about

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working in the numbers world, I love data.

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Shocker. I love data. And so being able to look back

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at past years and use that to future

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forecast is so nice. Like, every time

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that I get into a chunk where I'm like, oh, God.

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What just happened? Because we've done a lot. Like, we used to have huge

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swings in that in our income. And our income now is more like

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this and a little like this, and it's much less stressful,

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but it's still you'll hit that. It's like, we can look back, and we can

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see that for each of last 8 years, this has happened every time. And so

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then, when I sit down and I plan the next year out, that lets

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me go, okay. Cool. July is when we tend to hire staff.

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It's a great time because we have capacity. Like, there's

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there's time to be doing that, and it lets me

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plan and integrity instead of just, like, willy nilly,

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like, throwing offers out or hitting

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on that client that's an Amazon seller because that's not a client type

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that we work with. I love them. I'm all for it, but, like, we're not

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set up for that. But without fail, I swear about every July,

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we get someone that pops up. It's like, hi. I'd

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love to be a client. I'm like, oh, no. Not the right

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fit. Yeah. Not the right fit. Yeah. Like, thank you so much for thinking of

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us, but not the right fit. So yeah. I think I think having

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that roadmap, really, of, like, what you

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can be doing, how you can be spending it, like because is your income fine

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the rest of the year? Are you good? If you want to be having more

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income stability, cool. You have a plan to make some additional offers Yeah. And some

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things that are just a no brainer or add ons. But if you are good,

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then, like, why would you not take some time of any sort for

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yourself? Mhmm. And there are months where I will have slower

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months in spite of you know, maybe I am making efforts to do

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special offers and things, and I might have a slow month still. And I'm like,

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you know what? I'm fine. I have enough to pay myself for

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this month. I have enough to cover my expenses, and I would rather have the

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time and take an extra trip or just rest at home or

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just have time off. And so, you know, kind of learning

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what your what your boundaries are and what you prefer and what's more

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valuable to you. And, also, you know, going back to tracking,

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you know, past years, that's also something else we do in the course. So we

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figure out, you know, what are your monthly income goals, and we also look at,

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you know, each month in the past year. How many sessions did you book each

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month? When were inquiries coming in? So that you can have that

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data of when are the natural ebbs and flows, what types of sessions are you

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booking in these months. Because I did also see, like you said, around Labor

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Day, other photographers I know were freaking out. They were like, oh my gosh. My

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engagement's super low right now. And then the other day in a local Facebook

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group, people were like, how are your bookings for next year? I'm freaking out. I

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don't have a lot. But right now is the lull. And in October

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through December or January even, people are gonna be getting engaged,

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and people are gonna want photos. So people do get really freaked out

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by that that little lull when the rest of the year inquiries are

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flooding in. But if you keep track of these things, you will look

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back and say, okay. This is exactly what happened last year.

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I yes. Like, people preach it at everyone because, again,

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we do the same thing. Come and, actually, 2 weeks ago, I

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went, oh, wow. Things are really slow. Guess what? You had, like, 6 inquiries in

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the last week. I'm like, oh, that's right. Here it comes. So

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anytime I noticed something like that that happens, I add a note to my calendar

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about a week before that. Mhmm. Just a little tiny, like, note reminder

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on there because I live off of my Google Calendar. Like, my entire

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life is in there, and it's so nice because with some

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flexibility, especially pandemic time flexibility, things are

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generally cyclical. As you're going to notice, these ebbs and flows

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or these changes that come through literally

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Labor Day every year. Everything that I run. Yes. I run

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that. But it can freak everyone out because Yeah.

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Is the, money tree ever gonna shake, you know, additional clients? And,

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yes, like, it's for sure. Everyone's just chilling. So, like, how about we just

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chill instead of, like, managing your own anxiety and your

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own, like, thoughts around things, I think, is such a powerful tool to be

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utilizing. Because so often we, again, kind of fall

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victim to the client cycle or the client whim, when in reality, like, what are

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the stories we're telling ourselves? Like, that the client

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is not intentionally not reaching out to us. They've got life going on.

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Like, they're doing things. They have kids going back to school. They're taking that last

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big summer vacation. Then everything kind of

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starts rolling. Fall, like, right Yeah. At the time we get to the middle of

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September, it's like, oh, and then it just starts to slowly build.

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And you're like, oh, that's right. Yeah. This is fine. So, like, instead of freaking

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out the 1st part of September and end of August, we could be

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easing into the busy booking season.

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Yeah. And using that little quiet period to be strategic and say,

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okay. Fall is coming up. I need to start planning

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my for the holidays. I need to start looking at how many sessions

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can I book this year, or what can I be posting to entice people to

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start booking early? You know? And and taking that opportunity

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and that breath of fresh air that you don't have to be answering emails all

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the time and using it to your advantage. Right. Well, I'm like, is

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my pricing good? Is my client onboarding system stellar? Like,

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where where are there any holes? Have I run through all of it for this

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year? Because I know that we've been guilty of that sometimes or if something doesn't

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get tested or gets tweaked and really, oh, it was small. I won't impact anything.

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Broken link on the website. Yeah. Happens all the time.

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What and it's just silly and you're like, okay. Well, yeah. I love using

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downtime for that, because it lets you do

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something that feels feels and is proactive.

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Right? You're doing something, you know, like, okay. I've accomplished this. I

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wanna make the whole thing better, easier, more streamlined, And then,

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you are set up in such a better spot instead of doing this

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little swirl spiral in your brain and worrying about it. And then hitting

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busy season and booking season and being like,

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really wish I would have taken some time to implement the things that didn't go

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right last year or that weren't Right. They weren't clunky. Because I think that's the

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biggest thing is, well, we won't always document the things that are

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clunky or that could be improved. And we've been doing that a lot over the

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last 2 years. And then in July, in November, over that Labor

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Day, you know, little 10 day chunk, we're actively making

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changes to prevent those things from coming up this next

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year. And every year is smoother and more streamlined and less

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stressful and a better experience for our clients. Yes. And most

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people also, when they're so overbooked and burned out,

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they wait until January essentially to do any updates in their business,

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including pricing, including back end stuff. It's like

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January is the month that I'm gonna do all the things, and then how quickly

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do they get burned out from doing that stuff? But what I've learned

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through coaching, and you've interviewed my coach as well, you know, you can

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be doing that stuff throughout the year. It doesn't take an entire month

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to do that. You can do something small one time a week and make progress.

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And I also like to recommend to people, raise your prices before the fall

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because you know that people are gonna be reaching out, like, 3 times the amount

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of people that normally reach out to you. You know you're gonna book it, so

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raise your prices now before the fall so you don't have to take on as

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many clients. And you know that if you book, if you're taking time out of

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your beautiful fall weather to go be with clients, that it's gonna be worth it

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for you financially. Absolutely. No. I I couldn't agree more. I

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think that everyone feels that that January fresh start is the only

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time. Right? It's not the only time.

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I actually hate For me, January is, like, the one month

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that I don't wanna be doing all of the things. I don't wanna be reinventing

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the wheel. I want to be just rolling where I am because it's busy for

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us. Our busy season is so aligned. Like, you know, we have booking season,

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and then we have tax season, and then we have Mhmm. Extension season, and

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then we have season, and they all just kind of roll

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throughout the year. And for us, I I update

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everything over the summer leading into the fall for the exact

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same reason. Like, what are we looking at? Where are we strategically planning?

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What is our like, what's our client max? What's our ideal client

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range? Like, where do we have? I don't think this happens quite as often, but

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I think it can happen if you're looking to take on maybe you want to

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have maybe you're expecting a child this next

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year. Like, how does your life change with that? How do you impact, like,

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taking Right. Parental leave when you're a photographer. We've had quite a

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few photographers over the last few years that have had children and that have

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had to reverse engineer, like, what that looks like, and how do you have

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coverage, and do you have people in place, and how do you notified

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clients? Like, how are you choosing to navigate this? And there are lots of other

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life changes that pop up. Maybe you wanna take 2 months off to go travel

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the world. All of these things you can use to forecast, and then okay. Cool.

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How am I presenting my prices, my offers, our services? Like, where

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are we booking? And I think I know that our strongest area

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for bringing on clients has been asking for the referral,

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utilizing our network Mhmm. And reaching out to them. Like, do bookings feel

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slow? Have we reached out to people that have worked with us that love us

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that refer us all of their friends? Yeah. Really easy to pop in and

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like, hey. We're here. We'd love to do x, y, z. We've loved working with

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you. We're open for referrals. It's amazing how easy that is to, like,

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generate cash flow sometimes when it feels like you're trying to get the ball

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rolling. Yeah. Absolutely. And like we were mentioning

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earlier with working with past clients and nurturing those relationships,

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so many photographers are very timid, and they're like, well, we've already invested this much

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money in me. I feel bad asking them for more. But you're not asking them.

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You're offering a service that I'm sure they would love to have you,

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the photographer, that they loved so much versus having to reach out to somebody

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totally new with a totally different process. And so making

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that little extra effort to just touch base with past clients and say, hey.

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How are you doing? If there's any other ways that I can serve you and

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work with you in the future, I would love to continue that relationship. If you

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would like prints from your session, if you would like an anniversary photo shoot,

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there's so many just easy touch points that you can have with clients that don't

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have to be you know, they can say yes or no. They can just ignore

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the email, and that's fine. Or they might reach out to you and remember it

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later and say, yeah. She said that she does offer this type of photography, so

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I'm gonna reach out again. Absolutely. Yeah. I I think it's,

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again, easy to make it all about ourselves. Right? Oh, we've already paid this. Oh,

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I've already they have not given you money out of

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charity. Mhmm. You are providing a valuable

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service and experience. Yes. You're not

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begging for money. Right. Like, I I see

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it happen a lot. Oh, well, I can't expose it. Or, oh, they've already or,

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oh, I don't know. What what stories are we making up about our clients Mhmm.

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That are pigeonholing them? Or, oh, they're not gonna want the 8 hour package. They're

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only gonna want the 6 hour package. Yes. Like, can we let the client decide?

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Can we maybe put it all out there for them and let them as an

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adult choose what's best for, like, their needs instead of making our own limiting beliefs,

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our own stories, hold true for our clients?

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And I think that that happens so much more often than

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we're even realizing. Mhmm. And, especially, for women,

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we're very uncomfortable generally with talking about money, stating

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our pricing without the upspeak or without, like, if

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that's okay with you, making those kind of statements, offering discounts

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before clients even ask for them, or just because a client asked for a discount,

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we feel like we have to oblige, and that's just not the case. And a

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lot of times too, we do assume, well, this client said their

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budget was this, so they can't afford to spend any more with me. And a

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lot of times, that's not the case. So, yeah, like you said, we're making up

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stories about our clients or what they could afford just because we might not be

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able to afford that, And MoneyMindset has a lot to do with

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our bookings. Absolutely. I think one of

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the biggest things that I've seen pop up is and we we see this a

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lot. Right? Maybe you've sent out a proposal. You have options a, b, and

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c. And the client's like, hey, I really love c, your highest priced

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offer, but I have the budget for b. Mhmm.

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We're not going to waffle, and we're not going to change our

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prices to accommodate that. But if you're open to it and

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something that we've done in the past too, is, like, where could you change your

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deliverables? Mhmm. You're not doing more work for

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less. You're doing an a commensurate amount of work for the price

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that they're able to pay. Or, hey. Like, let's have a chat about that. Like,

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what what are you wanting from this package? It's so important. Like, where can we

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be meeting this rather than just compromising yourself and

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your values. And then I think it's really

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easy. I know it's happened to me in the past to feel resentment. Right? Because

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you've done this, and then you're sitting over here in the background, like, grumbling instead

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of just having stood your ground and maybe they end up walking as a client.

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But then they're not the right client for you. You don't need to compromise your

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values, your services, your offerings, and

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it's so tempting sometimes,

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especially when you're first coming into booking season for the year, and you're like, we're

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gonna do this, and you get someone that's like, well, my budget is this, but

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I want that. Yes. Care for options.

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Yes. Preach. I talked about this recently on on an Instagram,

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reel because there are so many people pleasing behaviors that we

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do, and I think women, especially, like, gender definitely has an impact on the

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way that we behave with our clients. We will interact with our

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clients in a way, like, they'll ask for a discount, and we'll say yes because

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we feel like we have to or because it's uncomfortable for us to say no.

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And then we get ourselves. We show up to the session, and we're like, I

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don't even wanna be here right now. It's a beautiful Saturday in October. I

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could be with my friends having wine at the local winery right now. I could

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be with my family and kids picking pumpkins in the pumpkin patch. And I didn't

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even need this because I'm working 25 other days in October. But

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I said yes to this client that's not even paying my full rate. Mhmm. And

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now I feel crappy about it because I shouldn't even

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have taken it on in the first place. So we feel resentment towards our client

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when instead we should be feeling grateful because we're picking clients that align with

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our values. We're picking clients that are that see the value in us and are

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willing to pay our rates. And, you know, not every client is able to do

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that. And there are times when we could be flexible and compromise if we feel

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like the situation allows for it. But when we continually

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do these people pleasing behaviors and then we're struggling to make

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ends meet in our business or we're more burned out because we're taking on more

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than we should have, that's on us. And so one thing that I like to

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say a lot is it's not our client's fault that we're burned out.

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It's not our client's fault we're overbooked. It's our fault. And,

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you know, there's a part of it that just is comes with the territory of

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when you first start a business and you start getting more and more popular

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and people are booking you, and then you kinda have to reach that enough point

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before you realize you need to scale back. And then you have to have somebody

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who can help you learn how how to do that in a way where you

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can still make the income that you need. But at a certain point,

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we have to stop going through the cycle burnout every

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fall and blaming our clients and posting these

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passive aggressive stories on Instagram. You guys, I'm working,

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like, 12 days straight with no day off. I'm editing till 2

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AM, and I'm doing things as fast as I can. I've been sick, and

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I'm still working. Like, I see these. I've already started to see them this

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fall. And And it makes me so upset because we're making our clients feel bad

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and pity us like we're the tortured artist when, really, we

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chose that for ourselves.

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Right?

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Right? There's so many things that we could have done to prevent the situation.

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And if it's happening to you every year in your business, the one common

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denominator

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is you. Exactly. I I know. Yeah. The the resentment is so

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real. And I had kind of a a come to Jesus in my own business,

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I don't know, 5 years ago where I was like, oh, my God. This is

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a me problem. Like, I'm allowing this to continue to happen.

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It's no one else's fault. Right? I set my prices.

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They accept them, or I accept what we're you know, we've agreed upon.

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I can't hold it against them because I'm resentful, and the same thing

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happened with, like, raising prices. Yeah. I may like, I had clients that

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were at, you know, x rates. I think we see it happen too with, like,

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old clients that come back and, like, your prices have changed, your scope that has

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changed, and you might feel some sort of way about where your prices are

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now. You know, maybe it was someone that paid you when you first prep started,

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and it was $1200. And you don't work for anything less than 5,000

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now. Yeah. Okay. You get to

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be strong in that, and you get to stand up for that. Because if you

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and this is where I see people, like, automatically discount. But, yes, of

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all the shit that comes about. Right? There is nothing worse than

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when I started raising prices, changing package offerings, I had a couple of

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clients that I left at, like, a grandfathered price rate. Mhmm. And that's when my

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come to Jesus was I was resentful. I was irritated. I was

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bitter. They had done nothing

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wrong Right. In the slightest. And guess what? We had

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conversations that weren't always the most fun,

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and 1 or 2 of them left. And we made some package changes, and

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we makes made some adjustments, and I loved working with them

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again. Mhmm. That was, like, my biggest

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moment of being like, okay. So anytime we look to change packages,

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pricing, etcetera, everyone within their

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contract window gets updated because it is so easy for that

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resentment to build and to fester when, like,

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you create this. Like, you set the situation. Right. You have the capacity to

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modify it. Like, can we please just be doing that? Yeah. And

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it hurts. It's humbling to you know, if somebody tells you,

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I I just don't have the budget for this, but also separating

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that from our worth, right, and saying, you know, it's

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not that they don't think that I'm a great photographer or a great business owner.

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They probably still follow you and reach out to work with you again because

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they think they they recognize the growth and they still enjoy

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connecting with you, but it might just not be in their budget. And

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that's understandable. Like, I'm a photographer, and there's photographers who are out of

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my budget. I love their work, and I I know that they're worth what they

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charge as far as their services, but it might just not

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be in my budget. And that's okay, and that could be something I save up

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for in the future. I'll say, hey. I'm ready to splurge. I've been saving

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for years to work with this person, and they might come back and do that,

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and they might not. And that's okay because people have different priorities in our

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lives, and we need to understand that that doesn't reflect on us

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and our value as a person. But it it does hurt. It's hard to have

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those difficult conversations when you do have recurring clients and you have to talk

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about price increases. But, again, when you're feeling that resentment

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in resentment inside because you know that something's off

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off and that you're not feeling like you're making what your services are

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worth, then it's worth having those difficult conversations instead of

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continuing a relationship that is going to sour because of those

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feelings you're having. Right. It's like the pain of feeling stagnant is

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greater than the pain of the potential change, conflict, confrontation,

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you know, anything. It'll just be a conversation. It doesn't have to be conflict or

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confrontation, but I think we make up everything that goes along with that.

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It's, I think, so powerful to have these conversations around

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money and around pricing, especially, because

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it's so easy, I think, to feel like you have impostor syndrome issues popping

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up or anything else popping up. But the other thing too, and I I I

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don't remember where I read this, but it was years ago, and I've seen

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it come true for myself. Everyone's pricing

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doesn't need to be reflective of what your services are. Like, your your pricing, their

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budget, like, all of that. There's a certain clientele for

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certain price points, styles, personalities,

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etcetera. Right? Within that, I wouldn't

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work with a photographer that charged too little in my opinion,

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but too little is subject to my interpretation.

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Yes. Just like I wouldn't work with someone that was necessarily way out

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of my budget. I may make an exception for it in the future. I may

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save. I might do whatever. Or the Caitlin of 2 years from now,

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that photography that's out of budget may be what's considered my norm

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or my baseline at that point. Mhmm. But it's so interesting to watch,

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like, my comfort level or my, like, baseline

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level and where it is year after year and how that changes.

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And I I've watched it on the client side too because just because I've

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watched mine change, so there's clients change at different methods, and

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they can be a similar income level, but their tolerance or their expectation is

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different. And so I think so many times we think that cheaper is better or

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cheaper is more accessible. And it's not always depending on the clients that

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you're working with because there's a perceived value that comes

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with certain pricing, but it's subject to so many

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different factors that the client's working with that, like, you may not be privy

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to and the flightest. Yeah. That's definitely true

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with photography as well because there are people who are posting on Facebook groups

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like, I'm looking for a photographer under

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$1,000 for a wedding day, and that's, for them, that's expensive.

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Right? There's people, and that's their budget, and that's understandable.

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But and they think that's, oh, I'm investing a lot of money in that photographer.

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Photographer. But then that person was an inexperienced newbie or a

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scammer who doesn't even show up on their wedding day, and that ended up costing

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them more than if they invested in a tried and true photographer who is

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dependable, has great reviews. And so some of those are experiences

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that you learn with time that paying more,

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not just for the product itself, but for the

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care that you're going to get from that professional. And, for example, you

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know, I limit how many bookings I take on so that I can take better

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care of my clients. Of each client individually, I'm responsive to

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them. I get their galleries turned around quickly, and I know I can

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charge more for that versus somebody who's charging 2.50 a session

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and or $1,000 for weddings, and they're taking on as many people as

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they can. Those people are getting galleries late. They're getting excuses and

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apologies on Instagram stories. They have a burned out

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photographer who does not have time to enjoy their own life. And, personally,

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I don't wanna work with people like that. I wouldn't hire somebody that I saw

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doing that year after year who is basically just a

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sad human who doesn't have time to take care of themselves. I wanna know that

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I'm supporting somebody who is living their best

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life. Absolutely. And I couldn't, yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I

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think there may be a time and a place. Right?

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If you're okay with having images

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delayed, having deliveries delayed, knowing that you are one of many

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instead of one of we're gonna say a handful. It's probably

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a little bit bigger than a handful, but one of a small group. Yes.

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I want the experience, and I'm willing to pay for the experience that comes with

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being able to support someone that is able to actually make a living, and is

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not the struggling, starving artist. I am over

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paying people to be a a starving artist. Like, I

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want you you do great work. Right? You like, you're in this because

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you're talented, you're passionate, hopefully, even if you're, you

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know, you're struggling with some burnout. You got into this because of that.

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I want you to be able to make a good living from it. I want

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you to be able to go take time, live your life, do all of the

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things that I value so much in my business. Like, it would feel so hypocritical

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to not support paying someone rates. But, again, this is where you

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setting your rates. Yes. You need to be setting your rates

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to support that and being able to articulate the like, these are our

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rates. These are the clients. This is the experience we provide. Like, how much more

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space did that give you to provide a stellar experience as well? Yes.

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Because here's the thing too is, like, if you're charging super cheap prices, you're

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taking on a high volume of clients. Maybe at the beginning, you

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can keep up with it or, like, you know, when you first start start out

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your 1st couple years, you're hustling and you're like, okay. This is just what I

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have to do. But after a year or 2, it gets old.

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And, you know, what once was really easy and you're like, okay. I can make

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a quick buck by taking on more and more clients at a cheap rate, and

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that's attractive to people. But then you soon you start to bring that

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resentment to your clients. It comes across in your email responses to

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them that are a week late. It comes across when you show up with the

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with the drained expression where you don't have as much creativity.

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So as much as we like to think that it doesn't affect us and we

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can just keeping the cheap photographer, keeping the affordable business owner,

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it's catching up to you in all sorts of ways. And if not in your

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professional life, also in your personal life too. And that is a big thing

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that so many people you know, a lot of people say, you know, I value

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my family if you ask them. What's the most important thing to you? Family. But

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how many times are they saying, well, I was gonna go to my kids' soccer

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game today, but somebody needed help with a wedding last minute, and so I'm gonna

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do it. And then you become the mom that's never at their kids' soccer games.

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Or your family is like, well, we would have invited you, but we knew that

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you probably had to work. You know, your family gets used to you working on

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vacation. And that's no kind of life to have. Like, that's not the life that

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I want for myself. And I think if a lot of us start to be

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honest with ourselves, then we will start to acknowledge that we are

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burned out, that we don't wanna live this way. We don't wanna be on this

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cycle of burnout, but we don't know how to get off of that

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roller coaster. Absolutely. What a fantastic,

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like, segue into this. Yeah. If you

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were to give any particular

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takeaway or action step that someone listening right now who's

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like, I don't know how to get off the roller coaster. I don't know how

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to take that first step. What would you what advice would you

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give them to take to be able to take that first step today?

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I would say don't sacrifice the self care that will get you

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through this season. I know that it the hard part of right

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now, if you're looking at the rest of your calendar year, you're already overbooked.

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It can be hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. You're

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like, I just have to get through this. And at this point, I'm recognizing that

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I have a problem, and so this is gonna hurt going through this

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season. But if you're in busy season right now

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already, you know you're overbooked, then close out your calendar.

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If you already if October is already looking busy for you, close out your calendar.

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Get comfortable with saying no even if you have to just write a prewritten response

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to your already booked. It's gonna hurt, but know that it's gonna be better for

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your mental health if you say no. And saying no to overbooking means saying

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yes to rest, to self care, to balance,

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and prioritizing your life outside of your business, which is very important.

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And I would also recommend try to outsource something either

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personally or professionally. If you're already super overbooked and

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overwhelmed, you can outsource something. You can outsource your calling and

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editing if you're a photographer. You can outsource in your personal life, which might be

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more cost effective in some cases. Hire somebody to, like, do meal

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prep for you and your family or hire a babysitter so you can get extra

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work done that you need to. There's so many things that you can hire

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out that are not gonna cost you an exorbitant amount of money each

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month if you can't afford that right now. So even just hiring

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somebody to do a couple of basic you know, clean your house once a week

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during busy seasons, that's one less thing on your mental load, is

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gonna be helpful for you. If you have a partner, if you have kids who

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are old enough that they can help out around the house, ask for support

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so that you can take one more thing off of your plate.

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Absolutely. I know that during our busy season, I have

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meal services that deliver food, and then my husband does the cooking, and

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it takes the guesswork out of it, and it's just taken care of. We're

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fed. We don't have to think about it. We order for, like, 2 months

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plus, and it is wonderful for

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just hitting that baseline of making sure you're, like, you're nourished. Right? Because

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it's so easy to just oh, I'm gonna have breakfast. Oh, I'm gonna grab

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whatever I can grab. Oh, I'm gonna get Chipotle for the 7th time this week

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on the way home. I mean, no judgment. Chipotle, but

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yeah. We get so old here.

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Yeah. We see so many of our clients,

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and there there are transactions going on. And there's a lot of there's a lot

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of Chipotle. We all I think like, the wedding industry

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loves Chipotle, and it always gives me a little chuckle when I'm

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like, Okay. Yep. Yep. I could I could tell what

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someone does just by looking through their receipts sometimes on,

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like, the food side of things. So I

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love that. Now, Joanna, you had

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a special offer that we're gonna make sure we're linking in

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here. Mhmm. And we also have your social,

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but if anyone wants to find you, Instagram is the best place.

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Yes. And you're on there as?

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At balance not burnout photographers. Wonderful.

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And anyone

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I am I'm so glad that we had this conversation. It was so nice to

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hear someone else saying, like, know your numbers. Yeah. And

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so it's so rare. I just feel like I am some broken record over here,

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like, sitting in the background. Like, I know it's not sexy, but it made such

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a big difference. It can be sexy. Like, let's just

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let's just pay attention and, like, help prevent

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the rampant burnout or repair, recover

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the rampant burnout that we're seeing across so many industries, but especially in the

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wedding industry, and teaching. I mean, we

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have 2 teachers on our 2 forward teachers on our team now who just

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burnt out and couldn't do it. My sister's a teacher. It's exhausting.

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Like, we're seeing it in so many industries. So thank you so much

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for being here. It's really meant the world to be able to have this discussion.

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Yes. Thank you so much. And I love that you're, you know, educating other

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business owners, not only on finances, but talking about these important conversations

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about our mental health, about burnout, and that there is hope for people.

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And that's the last thing I wanna leave off with is you can prevent burnout

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in the future in your business. Even if you're in it right now, there's ways

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to get through it, and there are people who can support you. And I love

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that on social media now, we're seeing so many great posts about supporting

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mental health. And my true passion is

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helping people to live a life you enjoy outside of your business.

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Even if it doesn't seem like it's possible for you right now, it is possible

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with a little bit of planning and strategy. So thank you again for having me

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and being able to share about this. Absolutely. Thank you.

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That's a wrap for this episode of the Wealth Witches podcast. I hope our

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magical money talks have left you feeling empowered and inspired.

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Remember, wealth isn't just about dollars in the bank. It's about abundance and

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financial freedom in all aspects of your life. I'm Caitlin Magnuson

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encouraging you to keep challenging the status quo and embrace your inner witch on

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this financial journey. Until next time, stay magical.

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Hey there, magical listener. Are you ready to take your financial journey to the next

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level? This is Caitlin Magnuson inviting you to join us at the wealth which is

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monthly program where we dive even deeper into the cauldron of wealth.

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From live training sessions about money, taxes, retirement, and business support

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to an inclusive community that's here to support your growth, we've got everything

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you need to embrace your inner wealth witch. Visit our website at

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wealthwitchesdot com to join us. Your wealthier self

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is waiting.

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