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Nicholas Tollervey
Episode 1311th July 2022 • The CircuitPython Show • Paul Cutler
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Nicholas Tollervey joins the show and shares his music background, the Mu code editor, and how learning to code can be similar to learning to play an instrument.

Show notes:

0:18 Welcome and Nicholas’ beginning with computing

2:35 The Mu code editor

6:40 Nicholas’ music background

8:20 How is learning music and coding similar?

11:35 Code Grades

15:50 Nicholas and teaching

17:20 Turn the tables

19:05 Which microcontroller?


Transcripts

Paul Cutler:

Welcome to the circuit Python Show. I'm your

Paul Cutler:

host Paul Cutler. This episode I'm joined by Nicholas

Paul Cutler:

Tollervey. Users of circuit Python might know Nicholas is

Paul Cutler:

the creator of the mu code editor. Nicholas is also known

Paul Cutler:

for music, philosophy, teaching, writing, and computing.

Paul Cutler:

Nicholas, welcome to the show.

Nicholas Tollervey:

Hello there.

Paul Cutler:

I'm glad to have you. You've had a very

Paul Cutler:

interesting career. How did it all get started for you?

Nicholas Tollervey:

Back in the 1980s when I was a kid, the UK

Nicholas Tollervey:

Government decided that every school should have a

Nicholas Tollervey:

microcomputer. And that was the BBC Micro, my mum and dad were

Nicholas Tollervey:

both teachers. And my dad, one half term brought home his

Nicholas Tollervey:

school's BBC Micro thinking, I'll just figure out how it

Nicholas Tollervey:

works and what it what it does, and how can use it in the

Nicholas Tollervey:

classroom. And it took about half an hour for my brother and

Nicholas Tollervey:

I to sort of price it out of his hands. And for us to get going

Nicholas Tollervey:

on it. It's basically started from there. And so all the way

Nicholas Tollervey:

through my teenage years, I was using these sorts of computers

Nicholas Tollervey:

and things and then I kind of got distracted with music, which

Nicholas Tollervey:

I'm sure we'll come back to. And when my own children arrived on

Nicholas Tollervey:

the scene, I got back into computing, because it was a lot

Nicholas Tollervey:

more lucrative than being a freelance musician, I can tell

Nicholas Tollervey:

you, and that eventually led to some work for the BBC, the BBC,

Nicholas Tollervey:

as you probably know, created a device called a micro bits where

Nicholas Tollervey:

they wanted to recapture those heady times of the 1980s, where,

Nicholas Tollervey:

you know, kids were learning to code on BBC Micro computers. And

Nicholas Tollervey:

they asked for people to contribute to their project. And

Nicholas Tollervey:

I was a PSF Fellow at the time, and they mentioned Python, with

Nicholas Tollervey:

the blessing of the PSF boards. I said, Well, hey, you know, you

Nicholas Tollervey:

should talk to the PSF. I'm a PSF fellow we can coordinate.

Nicholas Tollervey:

And so I became involved in the BBC Micro bit project, I wrote a

Nicholas Tollervey:

lot of the software that's to do with Python, for the BBC Micro

Nicholas Tollervey:

bit project, a lot of the documentation is mine, as well,

Nicholas Tollervey:

and a whole bunch of other stuff. And I got to meet an

Nicholas Tollervey:

Australian gentleman called Damien George, who is of course,

Nicholas Tollervey:

the creator of micro, Python. And Damian, I don't know, it

Nicholas Tollervey:

took him a weekend, he's got a brain the size of a planet, that

Nicholas Tollervey:

chap to basically get micro Python running on this device.

Nicholas Tollervey:

And so that's how I got into Python, hacking computers, the

Nicholas Tollervey:

circuit, Python and micro Python ecosystem, and it kind of all

Nicholas Tollervey:

went from there, really.

Paul Cutler:

So you started working on the micro bit, when

Paul Cutler:

that first came out six or seven years ago? How did that lead you

Paul Cutler:

to the mu code editor?

Nicholas Tollervey:

Well, one of the tasks that I had been

Nicholas Tollervey:

assigned was to create a browser based editor for micro Python on

Nicholas Tollervey:

the micro bit. And being the sort of engineer who likes to

Nicholas Tollervey:

check their work, I ran a series of workshops with UK based

Nicholas Tollervey:

teachers and developers and I'd bring them all together. And you

Nicholas Tollervey:

know, all developers want to play with the microbiome. And

Nicholas Tollervey:

all the teachers would want to have a go with it and see what

Nicholas Tollervey:

they could do with it in their classroom. And it was a good

Nicholas Tollervey:

place for me to try out the tech that I was creating at the time

Nicholas Tollervey:

to see does it work. And it became clear that actually, it

Nicholas Tollervey:

worked. But that could work better. And things like back

Nicholas Tollervey:

then anyway, it's changed. Now back then, if you wanted to

Nicholas Tollervey:

flash the device, you had to download the thing, you have to

Nicholas Tollervey:

find thing in the file system, you had to copy the thing, paste

Nicholas Tollervey:

it into the other thing, wait about 10 seconds, and then see

Nicholas Tollervey:

scroll across the screen syntax error line three sort of thing.

Nicholas Tollervey:

Okay, so it's a bit of a pain in the neck. And so the other

Nicholas Tollervey:

aspect of micro Python is that you get a repple on your

Nicholas Tollervey:

devices, you know, and this is great for interactive

Nicholas Tollervey:

programming. And when I demoed this with a hacky script that

Nicholas Tollervey:

I'd created in Python, teachers were like, Whoa, you can it's

Nicholas Tollervey:

like talking to the micro bit directly. Yeah, absolutely. This

Nicholas Tollervey:

is what Python can do. And developers enjoyed the fact that

Nicholas Tollervey:

there's a repple, because it's an exploratory, playful way of

Nicholas Tollervey:

getting into the hardware and seeing what it can do. So

Nicholas Tollervey:

putting all that together, I decided one afternoon, one

Nicholas Tollervey:

Sunday afternoon, yeah, how hard can this be if I were to write a

Nicholas Tollervey:

very simple code editor that had a flash button, instead of all

Nicholas Tollervey:

the download, blah, blah, blah, chicory? pokery. You just click

Nicholas Tollervey:

flash, and then it just kind of work you. So you reduced the

Nicholas Tollervey:

sort of dissonance in the development cycle, if you see

Nicholas Tollervey:

what I mean, you were writing code flashing, writing code

Nicholas Tollervey:

flashing, or you could drop into a repple and then typing away,

Nicholas Tollervey:

and that's the origin story of mu. And for Sunday afternoon

Nicholas Tollervey:

hack, I think I'm doing quite well.

Paul Cutler:

I think it's turned out great. It's the go to editor

Paul Cutler:

for so many people because like you pointed out having access to

Paul Cutler:

the repple right there makes it so much easier trying to

Paul Cutler:

troubleshoot or change whatever you're trying to work on. Yeah.

Paul Cutler:

Yeah.

Nicholas Tollervey:

The other aspect of me is because it's a

Nicholas Tollervey:

beginners editor, or it's aimed at people who are supporting

Nicholas Tollervey:

beginners. We are not trying to do that. Big whiz bang effects

Nicholas Tollervey:

of an IDE or something like that, we just want to do the

Nicholas Tollervey:

simplest possible thing so that people can graduate away from

Nicholas Tollervey:

mu, and then use their VS code or whatever it is they graduate

Nicholas Tollervey:

to. But the side effect of that is it just does what it says on

Nicholas Tollervey:

the tin, it means you've only got a few buttons across the

Nicholas Tollervey:

top. What does it do it does that, go look at those buttons

Nicholas Tollervey:

and explore and play. And we've built it in such a way that it

Nicholas Tollervey:

has to cope with the working practices of 11 year old

Nicholas Tollervey:

beginners. So you know, they are clicking like nobody's business.

Nicholas Tollervey:

So we try and make new, quite robust in that sense as well.

Nicholas Tollervey:

I'm really pleased that people find it useful. Oh, it's

Paul Cutler:

great. You had mentioned when he first tried

Paul Cutler:

starting to code mood that you were looking for an online code

Paul Cutler:

editor is that idea still in the back of your head,

Nicholas Tollervey:

said the online code editor was a part of

Nicholas Tollervey:

the BBCs requirements. And that ended up becoming make code. But

Nicholas Tollervey:

the folks that make code have taken out the micro Python bit

Nicholas Tollervey:

of that and put in their own Python thing now. But I do know

Nicholas Tollervey:

that the micro bit Foundation have a new web based browser

Nicholas Tollervey:

based Python Editor. Because handily enough, Carlos who works

Nicholas Tollervey:

at the microwave foundation is also one of the core mu

Nicholas Tollervey:

contributors as well. So I get to chat with him, perhaps every

Nicholas Tollervey:

fortnight and see what they're doing. Looking over the fence.

Nicholas Tollervey:

I'm very excited to see what they've been doing with that.

Nicholas Tollervey:

And I've heard just yesterday from us, electrical engineer

Nicholas Tollervey:

friend who's been testing it that he said, it's amazing. So

Nicholas Tollervey:

when I see that I'm going to be a happy little shot.

Paul Cutler:

You'll move off, it's great to see that there's

Paul Cutler:

continuing innovation in that space. Absolutely. You're active

Paul Cutler:

in music making, what is your music background?

Nicholas Tollervey:

Okay, so the part of the UK where I grew up

Nicholas Tollervey:

is, I guess, well, it's called up north, really. And up north,

Nicholas Tollervey:

there's lots of coal mines and pits, and all that sort of

Nicholas Tollervey:

stuff. And each of those villages has a brass band, and I

Nicholas Tollervey:

grew up there was a band in my village, and I'm a tuba player.

Nicholas Tollervey:

The way music education works in the UK is once folks realize

Nicholas Tollervey:

that you're enthusiastic about music or talented about music,

Nicholas Tollervey:

you're kind of put on a pathway of what's called the grading

Nicholas Tollervey:

system, where it's a bit like belts in martial arts, really,

Nicholas Tollervey:

you know, you start with the white belts and eight or nine

Nicholas Tollervey:

belts later, you're a black belt. It's the same sort of

Nicholas Tollervey:

thing in the UK and other Commonwealth countries as well.

Nicholas Tollervey:

And so I was put in one end of this sausage machine and went

Nicholas Tollervey:

round around around this mechanism. And out came Nicholas

Nicholas Tollervey:

attending the Royal College of Music. It's one of the world's

Nicholas Tollervey:

top music Conservatoire. It's really I wasn't really expecting

Nicholas Tollervey:

to get there. But they let me in. And within about six months

Nicholas Tollervey:

of arriving, I realized that actually a professional musical

Nicholas Tollervey:

life wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to do other things. But

Nicholas Tollervey:

I wanted to complete my degree, I met my wife while I was there,

Nicholas Tollervey:

which is the best thing that came out of that. And I also

Nicholas Tollervey:

worked as a freelance musician for a few years after

Nicholas Tollervey:

graduating, and importantly, as a music teacher, which is what

Nicholas Tollervey:

all musicians do when they want to have a stable salary. Because

Nicholas Tollervey:

clearly being a freelance musician is the worst job in the

Nicholas Tollervey:

world if you want to earn regular money. So that's, that's

Nicholas Tollervey:

my background. I'm a tuba player.

Paul Cutler:

How is learning to code and learning music similar?

Nicholas Tollervey:

That's an awesome question. To learn to

Nicholas Tollervey:

play, I don't know something like a tuba or a violin to a

Nicholas Tollervey:

very advanced level takes many years of practice sustained

Nicholas Tollervey:

efforts, self analysis, if you see what I mean, you have to

Nicholas Tollervey:

think about what it is that you're doing reflecting on not

Nicholas Tollervey:

only how are you holding the instrument, but how are you

Nicholas Tollervey:

engaging with music, it means learning from lots of different

Nicholas Tollervey:

people. It means putting yourself into lots of

Nicholas Tollervey:

interesting situations like playing in an orchestra or

Nicholas Tollervey:

playing the string quartet or a brass band, blah, blah, blah.

Nicholas Tollervey:

All of these things and the music world knows this. And so

Nicholas Tollervey:

there are structures in place like the grading system we

Nicholas Tollervey:

mentioned that help you get from scratching away and entertain

Nicholas Tollervey:

the local cats to itu being Nicola Benedetti, a virtuoso

Nicholas Tollervey:

concert violinist. It's okay. Now, the coding world has yet to

Nicholas Tollervey:

catch up with this. But I think we could all agree that to

Nicholas Tollervey:

become a good coder takes a long time. It requires self

Nicholas Tollervey:

reflection. It requires getting experienced by learning from

Nicholas Tollervey:

others and put, you know, all those kinds of similar things to

Nicholas Tollervey:

the music world apply to becoming a good coder. Sadly, in

Nicholas Tollervey:

the coding world, you'll see, you know, learn Python in three

Nicholas Tollervey:

months. And, you know, learn Perl in 24 hours or everything

Nicholas Tollervey:

you wanted to know about JavaScript, but we're afraid to

Nicholas Tollervey:

ask in four easy lessons or blog posts or books to that effect.

Nicholas Tollervey:

And that's great. We want people to feel empowered to learn to

Nicholas Tollervey:

code, but I also feel a little bit sad that actually what

Nicholas Tollervey:

they're being sold is a bit of a false promise. You know, you and

Nicholas Tollervey:

I and anybody listening or watching will know Are that

Nicholas Tollervey:

coding? Is it No 99% being frustrated at why the damn thing

Nicholas Tollervey:

doesn't work and finding out on Stack Overflow, and you know,

Nicholas Tollervey:

maybe 10% actually writing code, it takes the acquisition of a

Nicholas Tollervey:

certain sort of mindset and skill set that gets you to a

Nicholas Tollervey:

place where you can be effective and autonomous as a software

Nicholas Tollervey:

developer. And I think those in the coding world could learn a

Nicholas Tollervey:

lot from the music world as a result of that, because they're

Nicholas Tollervey:

both very similar trajectories.

Paul Cutler:

I didn't learn to code until I was older. And I

Paul Cutler:

came across this, I wish I could give credit to whoever said it.

Paul Cutler:

But they said I'm not self taught, I'm community taught, it

Paul Cutler:

really stuck with me, because as someone who was, you know,

Paul Cutler:

quote, unquote, self taught how much I've learned from other

Paul Cutler:

people. And one of the reasons I started the podcast was how much

Paul Cutler:

help I got around circuit Python. Yeah, a year or two ago

Paul Cutler:

when I was starting and realized, okay, that kind of a

Paul Cutler:

community is so important.

Nicholas Tollervey:

And just just a shout out to the folks

Nicholas Tollervey:

that Adafruit who have built, helped build this community and

Nicholas Tollervey:

guide this community. What they are doing is best in class, they

Nicholas Tollervey:

are phenomenal at this. And we could all learn from the way

Nicholas Tollervey:

they do their community management, the way they welcome

Nicholas Tollervey:

people, the way they organize things, and just the way they

Nicholas Tollervey:

embody what it is to be a friendly coder in the community

Nicholas Tollervey:

is something to behold I have a list of names that I'm thinking

Nicholas Tollervey:

of, and I'm sure you have, and they might even have been guests

Nicholas Tollervey:

on your podcast, but so I won't embarrass them by mentioning

Nicholas Tollervey:

them now. But you know, awesome work at Adafruit. Great stuff,

Nicholas Tollervey:

keep it up.

Paul Cutler:

Your current passion project is called Code

Paul Cutler:

grades directly based upon your music education. Tell me a

Paul Cutler:

little bit about your project.

Nicholas Tollervey:

Okay, so I spent high has spent since 2012,

Nicholas Tollervey:

an awful lot of time thinking and working in coding education,

Nicholas Tollervey:

actually 2009 That's when I set up the Python code Dojo where

Nicholas Tollervey:

beginner coders got together, I set up the education track at

Nicholas Tollervey:

PyCon. UK as well and did a whole bunch of other stuff. It

Nicholas Tollervey:

was actually going to meet Dan, in a circuit Python, in Boston

Nicholas Tollervey:

on a train journey that I had the idea of, well, what would

Nicholas Tollervey:

music education that like if we taught it, like we teach coding,

Nicholas Tollervey:

you know, learn the tuba in 24 hours, you know, everything he

Nicholas Tollervey:

wants to know about the violin, but are afraid to ask him three

Nicholas Tollervey:

months or four easy lessons, you know, that's not going to fly?

Nicholas Tollervey:

Would you hire a musician to play at your wedding? If they've

Nicholas Tollervey:

just been to a three month boot camp? That sort of question.

Nicholas Tollervey:

Okay, so that led me to ask, Well, how could I flip that

Nicholas Tollervey:

table? flip, flip the tables and say, What would coding education

Nicholas Tollervey:

that like, if we did it, like we do music, and I realized, you

Nicholas Tollervey:

know, I'm a classically trained musician, I could use the stuff

Nicholas Tollervey:

that I learned both as a student and as somebody who had to teach

Nicholas Tollervey:

this sort of stuff. And bear in mind, we've got 1000 years of

Nicholas Tollervey:

Western musical history to draw upon. So that part of me was

Nicholas Tollervey:

being that lazy engineer going, Well, surely, somebody's done

Nicholas Tollervey:

this before that I can borrow the ideas, and so on and so

Nicholas Tollervey:

forth. The other aspect of this is that my wife, still a music

Nicholas Tollervey:

teacher, and she's a very good music teacher. And I see what

Nicholas Tollervey:

she does all the time. And she sort of inspires me to think

Nicholas Tollervey:

well, how would that work in the world of code. So we get code

Nicholas Tollervey:

grades, which is just one aspect of music education here in the

Nicholas Tollervey:

UK, which is that kind of pathway like martial arts belts,

Nicholas Tollervey:

you start at grade one or white belt, you present a very simple

Nicholas Tollervey:

project that demonstrates certain core concepts that are

Nicholas Tollervey:

quite simple, because it's grade one, you present that to a

Nicholas Tollervey:

mentor, and in a process that's a little bit like code review,

Nicholas Tollervey:

they assess you, they get an idea of your level of

Nicholas Tollervey:

attainment, and then you get a written feedback and score at

Nicholas Tollervey:

the end. So you've passed your grade one with a mark of 75,

Nicholas Tollervey:

which is passed with marriage, you go up, that's good. And at

Nicholas Tollervey:

that point, the requirements for grade to come on your radar and

Nicholas Tollervey:

feel within reach. So it's like stepping stones, you know, if

Nicholas Tollervey:

you were to look at grade eight, or black belts, and you're from

Nicholas Tollervey:

the perspective of a white belt, or a grade one, it would look

Nicholas Tollervey:

impossible, but by going through all this process of the stepping

Nicholas Tollervey:

stones, you're moving towards gradually place where you feel

Nicholas Tollervey:

that you can do those things. And the other aspect of this,

Nicholas Tollervey:

which I have personal experience of is that it's it's a great

Nicholas Tollervey:

antidote to impostor syndrome. And so when I was a young

Nicholas Tollervey:

musician, one of my music teachers said, You should

Nicholas Tollervey:

audition for the local youth orchestra. And I was like, Oh my

Nicholas Tollervey:

gosh, I can't do that. They're so amazing. And they're also all

Nicholas Tollervey:

big kids, and I'm only 14 years old, blah, blah, blah, blah. But

Nicholas Tollervey:

the minimum requirement necklace is that your grade five and

Nicholas Tollervey:

you've just passed your grade six, so you're definitely

Nicholas Tollervey:

qualified enough to do this. You can't argue with that. And

Nicholas Tollervey:

actually, it made me feel well, okay, maybe I am good enough.

Nicholas Tollervey:

There's a lot of imposter syndrome in our world of coding

Nicholas Tollervey:

and by Having an independent third party or code mentor,

Nicholas Tollervey:

who's a professional developer, assess your project for a

Nicholas Tollervey:

particular grade demonstrates that you know what? Yes, you

Nicholas Tollervey:

are. But grade five Python level, you know, don't beat

Nicholas Tollervey:

yourself down, you deserve that. And you deserve that mark at 75,

Nicholas Tollervey:

or whatever it is a high high ish mark. So you know, it's a

Nicholas Tollervey:

way of helping people get the wind in their sails interact,

Nicholas Tollervey:

you know, learning from the community, as you say, by

Nicholas Tollervey:

interacting with professional software developers who are

Nicholas Tollervey:

going to be the kind of mentors assessors, and it's a way of

Nicholas Tollervey:

finding the smallest steps that get you across the big step.

Nicholas Tollervey:

That is the chasm between, you know, a complete beginner to

Nicholas Tollervey:

somebody who's a competent coder. That's great. In a

Nicholas Tollervey:

nutshell,

Paul Cutler:

we've been talking a lot about education, you've

Paul Cutler:

taught music when you were younger, to the work that you've

Paul Cutler:

mentioned earlier, at PyCon, to the microbead, to code grades,

Paul Cutler:

was that a purposeful decision, a conscious decision, or just

Paul Cutler:

coincidence on your part?

Nicholas Tollervey:

5050. I'm a very intuitive sort of person.

Nicholas Tollervey:

So I follow my nose. And perhaps the places where I go, oriented

Nicholas Tollervey:

me more towards perhaps educational things, or, you

Nicholas Tollervey:

know, show that that's the case. But I have this theory, when I

Nicholas Tollervey:

want to learn something, actually, I try and teach it as

Nicholas Tollervey:

well, because in order to be able to teach the thing, you

Nicholas Tollervey:

have to have internalized what it is that you're trying to

Nicholas Tollervey:

teach, and you have to understand it well enough that

Nicholas Tollervey:

you know how to make analogies or use metaphors. Or given that

Nicholas Tollervey:

this is a particular sort of beginner, I'm not going to blind

Nicholas Tollervey:

them with all this science, I know which of the simple

Nicholas Tollervey:

concepts to introduce them to without overburdening them or

Nicholas Tollervey:

what order to introduce those concepts. And that clarity of

Nicholas Tollervey:

thinking is a really great way of learning yourself. So

Nicholas Tollervey:

teaching is a great way of learning. And I often say to

Nicholas Tollervey:

folks, you know, well, let me try and explain that back to

Nicholas Tollervey:

you. And tell me when I'm an idiot when I've got this wrong.

Nicholas Tollervey:

And that just works for me, I guess. Yeah, that's, that's part

Nicholas Tollervey:

of me, really.

Paul Cutler:

We're so grateful that you've been involved with

Paul Cutler:

education for all these years, all the things that you've

Paul Cutler:

brought to the table have just been great.

Nicholas Tollervey:

Thank you. Thank you.

Paul Cutler:

I've been asking all the questions. And before we

Paul Cutler:

run out of time, I wanted to give you an opportunity to ask a

Paul Cutler:

question.

Nicholas Tollervey:

Why yes, I do. So you're an experienced

Nicholas Tollervey:

open source collaborator and sort of member of the circuit

Nicholas Tollervey:

Python community. So I don't know an educational benefit. So

Nicholas Tollervey:

what piece of advice that you didn't know you needed to know?

Nicholas Tollervey:

Would you give to your beginner self? Okay, so this feels very

Nicholas Tollervey:

Donald Rumsfeld kind of there are known knowns, there are

Nicholas Tollervey:

known unknowns, what's your kind of unknown, unknown that you now

Nicholas Tollervey:

know?

Paul Cutler:

And you've touched on it, and it's kind of simple,

Paul Cutler:

it's just do it jump in the deep end, put that impostor syndrome

Paul Cutler:

aside, and it sounds so much easier to do than it is I

Paul Cutler:

understand that. But I was lucky to have a mentor and open source

Paul Cutler:

when I first started in the good old community. And that was

Paul Cutler:

basically her advice was just go do it. This is open source, no

Paul Cutler:

one's going to turn you away. The very rare project that's

Paul Cutler:

toxic and isn't open to newcomers who want to help. The

Paul Cutler:

best advice I can give you is reach out to someone, tell them

Paul Cutler:

you want to help or submit that pull request, submit that patch,

Paul Cutler:

write some documentation help with project management

Paul Cutler:

marketing, there's so much more to coding and open source

Paul Cutler:

projects than just coding as well. That would be something I

Paul Cutler:

would tell myself because I didn't know how to code when I

Paul Cutler:

first got involved, which didn't help with the imposter syndrome

Paul Cutler:

either, because everyone else around me could code but

Paul Cutler:

honestly, that's that's the one thing I wish I knew then, that I

Paul Cutler:

hadn't waited as long as I did to get involved in. Those are

Paul Cutler:

some lifelong friendships I've made in open source community,

Paul Cutler:

and it means so much to me. And this is just, you know, one

Paul Cutler:

small way of giving back via the podcast,

Nicholas Tollervey:

I was just gonna say and here we are.

Nicholas Tollervey:

Exactly.

Paul Cutler:

Nicholas, last question for you. You're going

Paul Cutler:

to start a new project, which microcontroller Are you going to

Paul Cutler:

reach for circuit playground

Nicholas Tollervey:

Express. It's kind of the mother ship is

Nicholas Tollervey:

it was the first circuit Python board that I became familiar

Nicholas Tollervey:

with. It's the one I used in the micro Python book that I wrote

Nicholas Tollervey:

for O'Reilly, Lemar and her colleagues, Adafruit have put so

Nicholas Tollervey:

much cool funky stuff on something that's so small, I

Nicholas Tollervey:

wanted to do an example project on code graze the thing I

Nicholas Tollervey:

thought of was using one of these with a COVID mask to do a

Nicholas Tollervey:

kind of an emoji type thing. You know, you could make the with

Nicholas Tollervey:

the LEDs. NeoPixels make it look like it's smiling or it's it's

Nicholas Tollervey:

frowning. You know? It has to be this is so fun. It's so easy,

Nicholas Tollervey:

and it's so cool.

Paul Cutler:

I couldn't agree more. It was the first circuit

Paul Cutler:

Python device I bought and it was a gateway. It just opened up

Paul Cutler:

all these doors for me. Nicholas, thanks so much for

Paul Cutler:

being on the show.

Nicholas Tollervey:

You're welcome. Thank you for having

Nicholas Tollervey:

me.

Paul Cutler:

Thank you for listening to the circuit Python

Paul Cutler:

show for shownotes transcripts and to support the show visit

Paul Cutler:

circuit Python show.com Until next episode stay positive